And thts bs you can't have tht kanna chit in any league. Wer the ppl tht run the league don't lik a particular team,thts bs....we put our blood sweat tears n2 this lik the other teams
Us Raider fans aren't just dreaming-there's a long history that makes the skepticism understandable. The Al Davis lawsuit and the fallout from it left a mark on the league's relationship with the Raiders. While not every call is biased, it's hard to ignore the patterns over the years that fuel the perception. And now, after what everyone saw on Black Friday, it feels like the rest of the league is finally starting to notice what we’ve been talking about.
@@colleenc9286 Watch the play. Use your eyes and ears and watch the play. Turn the volume up so you can hear it. The whistle was not blown until AFTER AFTER AFTER F'N AFTER the fumble was recovered.
@@schmuckytheraiderbear5043 They did not break down the rules. They broke down their opinion of the rules. I listened. They got it wrong. I stopped listening.
To be a false start the players must all be set, then one or more players moves early. The Raiders players were never set, so its illegal motion, which isnt a dead ball foul. The confusion is that the side judge incorrectly signaled false start. After officials conferred, it was correctly changed to illegal motion. It may not have been the call the Raiders wanted, but it was the correct call according to NFL rules.. Now the fumble part, thats on the Raiders QB for not paying attention. Which he even admitted to.
None of that matters. What matters is the ref stopped the play. This shit happens to the Raiders a lot. Wild card game against Cincinnati in 2022, Joe Burrow is running in the direction of being out of bounds, right before he steps out, the ref blows the whistle and Burrow throws a pass for a touchdown. The touchdown should not have stood because of the inadvertent whistle, but they let it count anyways. You can even see on film the DB stopped pursuing because of the whistle which allowed the receiver to catch it. Then, go back to the last game in Oakland, we needed a first down to seal up the game, but we wanted to keep the clock running to keep the Jags from having time to do anything. Derek Carr started his slide completely inbounds. As the rule states, the play ends when the QB starts his slide. Carr slid out of bounds, so the refs rule that he went out of bounds, which stopped the clock, and gave the Jags enough time to win. The call to stop the clock was an egregious call that compromises player safety.
It was "illegal shift" not motion. Still not a dead ball foul, but even when flags are picked up, whistles blown by officials are still enforced over all. I've seen them throw flags for late hits after accidental whistles and the rules expert later explained that players are specifically instructed to go by the WHISTLE over everything to protect the players. Penalty flags are then enforced or if they realize there was no penalty, their way of saying "oops, our bad" is that they instruct the teams to simply replay the down and they'd reset the game clock and instruct the time keeper to start the timer at the snap.
Football 101: What matters is that the whistle was blown and the play was declared dead. Doesn’t matter if they were wrong about a false start or illegal shift. Nothing after a dead play whistle actually happens as far as the game is concerned. That’s the problem here - the play was blown dead (right or wrong) but the result of that dead play was allowed to actually stand! Remember, nothing after the whistle on a dead ball play actually happens. The ref blew it dead over a false start (again, right or wrong) but then the umpire allowed the play to play out. An illegal shift is a live ball foul which means a play can continue and the penalty can be accepted or declined at the end of the play, allowing whatever happens to play out…like a fumble. But this was NOT an illegal shift call, it was a false start call. Everyone is in an uproar because it was inexplicably changed to an illegal shift after BEING BLOWN DEAD, thus ensuring victory for the Chiefs.
Or the last game in Oakland when Carr slid inbounds and they ruled him out which saved Jax a timeout. Then they flagged Raiders for delay of game. They could’ve run the clock out of it was called correctly. Instead they lost
I'm a Raiders fan and I think people are blaming the wrong people. It's the Raiders not the officials. There was no one moving before the snap and the false start signal is also the same as illegal formation (a live ball foul) which would be the case if Aiden is correct about the WRs not being set on the line of scrimmage. People keep saying that the ref called flase start, yet no one showed evidence of there being a false start, only an illegal formation or an illegal shift, both making the fumble live. Issue is that our coach should have took it down to 3 seconds and kicked the 49 yarder.
In a sense you’re right, usually. But also wrong, because even if he did do that, the kicker missed 3 FGA already. I highly doubt if he had run the clock off and attempted the “49 yarder” you wouldn’t ask yourself “why not try to get closer? He’s already missed 3 today?” And let’s say he did miss the 49 yarder. You wouldn’t be pissed that they didn’t even TRY to get closer after 3 missed already? In the moment, I was excited that AOC was able to even get in FG range, and in the moment knowing we had no timeouts, even I was telling myself, “get closer get closer get closer.” Coaching is difficult and with the emotions of the ups and downs, that is a tough call to try to get closer or just try to kick a long game winner, after factoring in everything from the previous 4 QTRS.
@@youngdrudown kicker missed all FGs 55 yards or deeper. First one was dead center but short. That makes the issue leg strength, not accuracy. Kicker has made 90% of FGs this season inside of 50, I like those odds.
@@chrismorrison9140 it's illegal shift because TE and WRs were moving. I seen no lineman moving in any shots except the right guard giving the center the tap to snap, which is legal.
@@lc5786 yeah I like those odds too. Hell I would’ve had faith in Carlson from 50+ again if we had no other choice, he’s money for us. But when you factor in “icing the kicker” and him possibly getting in his own head after kicking the ground the missed kick prior, why make a harder kick? If a kicker had 100% accuracy his whole career and was a guaranteed 3 points every time, teams are still going to try to score touchdowns. Because why make things harder? I just think it came down to making a kick easier rather than what his range or stats were. Even if it was Janikowski, I would want the ball closer every time every day.
Raiders fan for 50 plus years. Every team in the league besides the Chiefs must be aware that in a close game, the Chiefs are getting every single call and the other team is getting none. Zero. Zilch.
They make up penalties as the game goes on. Remember when they pulled that index card to measure a raiders first down. Smh... Never happened prior to that and definitely never happened years after it.
Watching this live i heard the whistle and thought it was dead. I was completely shocked when they gave the ball to the Chiefs. The NFL has to adopt full time refs. These things are just completely unacceptable.
It’s my understanding that the whistle doesn’t end the play. The play ends for whatever reason decided by the official(s) and whistles are then blown to tell the players that the play is over.
@Justaduck-u3o it didn't end the play in the playoff game between Bengals and raiders a few years back when there was an inadvertent whistle near the end of the first half and the Bengals got a TD on the play
Man, people need to have some objectivity. I agree, the refs were bad. Let's not forget, at the end of the 1st half. They blew a play dead, causing a 10 second runoff against the Chiefs. Besides, it wasn't a false start. The receivers were never set when the ball was hiked. Causing it to be an illegal shift(an unbalanced line, because no reciever on line of scrimmage). They only blow that dead if it's a running clock. It wasn't, because of the ball spike on the previous play per the NFL. That's the rule. Don't blame the refs for poor execution of the players.
So whether or not the players are “executing” the refs do not need to be held accountable for anything? Yeah okay that makes sense. So if a guy gets punched in the face and the refs don’t see it, no one is to blame right, because thats what the players executed. Yeah, real objective logic there bud.
That was a new rule implemented this year. They even talked about it during the game so the 10 second runoff was legit, and it wasn’t dramatically affecting the game. They seem to sprinkle a little penalties in against the Chiefs just so it looks fair.
@@JEYA-nm4jl the runoff was the rule, but the call was bad. They blew the play dead inadvertently. By rule, an offensive penalty in the last two minutes. Is an automatic 10 second runoff. Even if the call was bad.
false start is not a player safety issue. False start is a dead ball foul, meaning the play has not yet started. An offensive player simply flinching is not a safety issue, and even if they started downfield the defenders are ready, just waiting for that first hint of movement so They can charge. Defensive Off-sides IS a player safety issue, because the offense has to be set and not moving, making them vulnerable to a free hit. So the whistle is blown on contact with an opponent or with a free unblocked charge at the QB.
It’s absolutely irrefutable at this point, the NFL officiating is 100% in the Chiefs favor. As a Steelers fan I’m absolutely NOT looking forward to my Christmas being ruined by the Refs. The NFL will do anything to help the Chiefs 3-peat.
He's going to give me a nice used truck. With fat tires. Santa is a big disgrace. Totally fake. Where his immigration papers @? Ain't no north pole in America. Need two walls now . North AND South@@kenjohnston1257
I clicked this vid to see if theres still crybabys blaming the refs and BAM the 1st comment ..... BTW they quit kneeling to the National Anthem b/c of PRESIDENT Trump
I believe the rules state that if the clock is running you can have a deadbolt foul. You cannot have a deadbolt foul if clock is stopped. The clock was stopped because Raiders qb threw the ball into the ground the previous play. Therefore there cannot be a deadbolt call by the ref.
@colleenc9286 Whistle was not blown until after the fumble was recovered. Watch the play with the sound on high. Watch the play frame by frame. You might learn something.
@@JoshBeards It doesn't matter if the whistle blew, the ref across the field began waving his arms over his head 1 second after the snap ending any opportunity of a play happening.
Y'all aren't showing the video with sound or the actual call. No whistle until after Bolton secured the ball and the whistle is THEN heard and a bunch of them. The rules: SECTION 30 SHIFT A shift is any simultaneous change of position or stance by two or more offensive players before the snap after the ball has been made ready for play for a scrimmage down, including movement to the line of scrimmage by the offensive team prior to the snap (7-4-7). ARTICLE 6. COMPLETE STOP. All offensive players are required to come to a complete stop and be in a set position simultaneously for at least one full second prior to the snap. Failure to do so is an illegal shift (see 7-4-2-Item 6 for such an illegal shift foul after the two-minute warning of either half which converts to a false start). Item 6. Shift Converts to False Start. WITH THE GAME CLOCK RUNNING after the two-minute warning of either half, if all 11 offensive players are not set simultaneously for one full second prior to the snap, it is a false start. If all 11 players get set, and then two players shift without resetting prior to the snap, it is a LIVE BALL FOUL FOR ILLEGAL SHIFT. The game clock was NOT RUNNING. The chain of events: Dead clock on a spiked ball. 0:15 left. The formation sets momentarily. Trying to avoid an illegal formation, the QB an tight end both work to get the WR off the line with the QB clapping, evidently to get everyone set. The guard takes this as the signal to snap the ball and he taps the center. The center snaps the ball to an unprepared QB. 2 Flags are thrown almost simultaneously from both sides of the field. KC recovered the ball with 0:12 left. Whistles start blowing with 0:11 left. Refs figure out what just happened. From the NFL: “Had the clock been running at the snap, then by rule an illegal shift would convert to a false start,” a league spokesman said, via The Athletic. “Since the clock was stopped (spike on the second-down play), an illegal shift is a LIVE BALL FOUL.” It's a true testament to how well the lead official knew the minute details of these rules. Really impressive! What an insane series of events. The Raiders should have won this game. IF they made the FG. But they snapped the ball when there was confusion with their formation(with lots of noise from the Chiefs fans to make it worse) as the TE and WR were moving. Sucks for the Raiders and their fans, but not really so bad. They're 2-10 positioning themselves for a top draft pick. Just when you thought you've seen it all, right? This was an insane ending. Again. At least that's the story for now. We'll see if the explanation changes this week.
I've been a Raiders fan for more than 50 years and in all those years, I cannot remember one single game where the Raiders were the beneficiary of a call like this one where a bad ref call ended the game, gifting the game to the Raiders. It seems like every year or two there's a terrible call like this one against the Raiders but never in our favor. Sure the Raiders get breaks on bad calls, just not ones where the other team cannot come back from it. This video is evidence of the collusion against the Raiders. I don't know the rules like you do but assuming you are correct, I'm also assuming that the refs would know this rule since it is apparently drilled into them every chance the NFL gets. And yet, the biggest moment of the biggest game of the year for the Raiders, the referees all of a sudden forgot referreeing 101? I don't buy that. This was intentional. It had to be.
Actually this guy’s analysis is really bad because he assumes the refs blew the whistle for player safely reasons when that wasn’t the case at all. The whistle was for a false start. But by rule, with the clock stopped with less than 2 minutes to go, it’s a live ball foul. The Raiders fumbled and the Chiefs recovered. The call was CORRECT!!!! Go read Kirk Herbstreet’s comments on it. He knows way more than the bozo who made this video. Also, don’t believe every video you watch on TH-cam. Because this one was very wrong.
The NFL is now giving the Chiefs the same treatment they gave every Tom Brady team for 20 years. Every possible advantage, never the victim of any controversial call. But what eventually occurred with “The Brady Show” is that people got tired of that same plot line and Super Bowl story line. So Super Bowl RATINGS started to level off. That’s huge to the NFL script writers. I for one, stopped watching super bowls featuring Brady because the officiating was so cheesy to boost his teams into the playoffs. I guarantee is they write the Chiefs into this season’s “Finale episode” I will once again go to the movies etc instead of watching. It was funny seeing how packed the movie theater was during the Tampa Bay / Chiefs Super Bowl. I wasn’t the only person who had reached that level of disinterest in the fakery.
Bullshit!! The Patriots knocked the shit out of everybody for years n years. Refs in love with Tommy Boy? Absolutely!! Didn’t matter much with the Brady rules since the Pats blew everyone out!! I AM NOT A PATRIOTS FAN btw
I grew near Boston. I can call BS even when it adversely affects my team. My personal integrity is worth more than the fortunes of some recreational organization. Belechek was a dirty player. I did not like his style. But he did put together some impressive teams with Brady leading the charge. I've lived in KC for many decades. Mahomes and Reid are great for the community and they are great to the community. I cannot believe that either of them would allow their personal integrity to be tarnished by being involved in unscrupulous acts like rigging games. Finally, do you know many NFL players? I have met many. Most are loud & arrogant AF. Many are dumb. There is no way that the NFL could conspire to throw games like this and have these guys keep it a secret.
@@admiralgree3873 Before Mahomes, I watched a Raven's lineman hold a Chief's rusher with both hands clasped on the shoulders pads & moving the rusher right to left. Ref was 10 feet away and did not throw a flag. That is just one example of how refs can miss things.
@@KarlH1980 they control the outcome with their officiating. Like calling an illegal shift instead of illegal motion. Or not calling an obvious targeting on a pivotal play in the Georgia - Georgia tech game.
Plays are not dead when an official runs with his hands up. Plays are dead when the officials blow whistles. No whistle was blown until after the normal course of play, after the Chiefs had recovered the fumble. Replay the play. Slo mo it. Run it at full speed. I don't care, Amy way you cut it the whistle blew stopping play AFTER the fumble recovery. I don't care if you played college ball somewhere.
How many plays have been called dead …..and yet…..who ever ends ups with the fumble gets the ball. This is why more and more refs are letting plays continue based on uncertainty.
Nothing that happens after the whistle is blown should count. But the whistle wasn't blown until the Chiefs had recovered the ball. So all that matters was whether it was a false start or an illegal shift. According to the statement issued by the NFL, it was indeed an illegal shift.
EDIT: Even Pat Mahomes couldn't believe the call. He was like "this is getting too obvious". PS Im a diehard Chiefs fan. OOPS! I just went to Chat GPT and got an objective evaluation of Illegal Shift vs False start by asking it the question "Please give an evaluation of the following two NFL Penalties: False Start vs Illegal Shift". It gave a through technical comparison including a table. Here what it said: Evaluation of NFL Penalties: False Start vs. Illegal Shift False Start: Definition: A false start occurs when an offensive player (usually a lineman or another player in a set position) moves in a way that simulates the start of the play before the ball is snapped. Key Characteristics: Typically involves abrupt or jerky motion. It is a dead-ball foul, meaning the play is immediately stopped and does not proceed. Common offenders are offensive linemen, wide receivers, or players in motion who fail to reset. Penalty: Results in a 5-yard loss for the offensive team. No play occurs after the foul is called, as it is blown dead. Impact on the Game: Disrupts offensive rhythm. Particularly costly in short-yardage or crucial downs (e.g., 3rd and short). Often indicative of poor focus, nerves, or communication issues. Illegal Shift: Definition: An illegal shift occurs when two or more offensive players move or shift positions and fail to come to a complete stop for at least one second before the ball is snapped. Key Characteristics: Unlike a false start, motion itself is not the issue but rather the failure to reset after motion. Often involves miscommunication or poor timing on motions or shifts. Penalty: Results in a 5-yard loss, but the play is allowed to proceed unless the penalty is accepted. This is a live-ball foul, meaning the result of the play is considered if the defense declines the penalty. Impact on the Game: Affects offensive timing and execution, especially for teams that use frequent pre-snap motion. Indicates a lack of synchronization or discipline in the offense. CONCLUSION: NFL made the correct call. Raiders lost fair and square.
Now why don't you visualize this: it cannot be a false start, clock was not starting until the ball snapped. ONCE IT IS SNAPPED the clock runs. ONLY THEN does the "illegal shift" penalty occur. There is no provision to wind the clock back and say no play at that time
The Center Snapped the Ball, bounced off the Quarterback’s Chest onto the ground. The Ball is still live until someone recovers it. That’s what I think .
Refs in this game worst call in NFL History. Look the refs took the win away from the Raiders and gave it too the Kansas City Chiefs a thanksgiving gift. “Super Bad Call”.
Huh? Even if they do call a false start... ball gets moved back 5 yds and the Raiders gotta try a 55 yd fg to win it... Raiders kicker was already 0-3 from 50+ in the game... what makes you think he was gonna make that one?🤣
It’s over and done with! I don’t know why they didn’t kick a field goal? And I feel bad for raiders fans because I know exactly what they feel! As a Vikings fan and how they handled the face mask on Darnold! Even the DB knew that he did it because he grabbed his own helmet in disbelief that he did it! But this season I’ve never seen such horrible officiating in the NFL?
Good Lord. Where do you two get your information? False starts aren't stopped for player safety. It's a dead-ball foul... plain and simple. Unabated to the QB... that would be for safety, but offsides isn't. False starts can be a minor movement... it's not a safety issue. If that were the case, offsides would also be a dead-ball foul. The referee at the top of the screen clearly calls a false start. However, a false start occurs when a player who is set moves before the snap. In this case, players weren't set when the ball was snapped - that's illegal motion. It matters which penalty was called because a false start is a dead-ball foul. The play is over at that point. An illegal shift is not a dead-ball foul, meaning the play can continue after the flag is thrown. That's why the Chiefs were awarded the ball because the fumble was live. The ref at the top of the screen was wrong. Refs change calls all of the time. That's why they huddle and talk. You're both wrong, and everyone needs to stop whining. Make a friggin FG and you wouldn't have been put in that position to begin with.
Ok, so when the ref says the play is dead and it doesn't matter what illegal thing happens after,he doesn't care, because the play is dead, so when a play is over, and there are two players fighting, why does he throw a flag, the play is over, it's dead, come on man
I’ve got a novel idea: How about if the Raiders field goal kicker makes just one out of his three missed field goal attempts? Maybe that’ll stop the crying.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the mistake the refs made right before half time and the chiefs were penalized for it; clock time reduced by 10 seconds leaving the Chiefs with 4 seconds not enough time a play? Did you’ll forget about that!
The refs were likely told by replay assist that it wasn't a false start. I watched it live, the refs had a 60 sec conversation/meeting. If you watch it slow motion the replay assist for it right. He snapped the ball, QB wasn't ready, fumble
So, I went back and watched it again without the silly screenshots and talking head assumptions. There is no whistle until the ball is clearly recoverd by KC. If there is no whistle players are taught to keep playing. If the official was trying to stop the play, he should have been whistling as well. The circling hands signal means more than one thing as it covers multiple illegal procedures, some of which allow the play to go on. So just claiming he was signalling false start is inaccurate at best and an assumption at worse. I know the assumption is because he started moving in, but again... that's an assumption. The reason no one is jumping into a pile is because there was no pile. Bolton clearly recovered it and stood up with the ball without any scrum or pile to dive into. So, again, poor assumptions being made by the hosts here based on the video evidence. Even if your assumption of his thoughts is correct, he was obviously overruled in the actual call and didn't blow the play dead. In fact the ball is on the ground before he even leaves the sideline! I was hoping for actual evidence and explanation based on rules that something was done incorrectly, not conjecture about the ref's thoughts and assumptions about actions.
Both officials on each sideline threw their flags and blew their whistles simultaneously at the instant the ball was snapped. There is a wider camera angle available shot from the Kansas City sideline looking towards the Raiders sideline, it can be seen plain as day that whistles are blown before anybody even gets their hands on the fumble. The penalty is irrelevant, the whole argument over this is the fact that whistles were blown at the snap calling the play dead, which means that the fumble recovery can’t happen during a dead ball. Fumbles have been recovered numerous times by opposing teams in situations like this in the past, and the NFL has always stated time and time again that if a whistle is blown (even in situations where whistles were blown by mistake)the ball is instantly dead and a fumble recovery is nullified.
The Raiders had missed opportunities as well as Kansas. My family is diehard Raider fans for 30 years, I happen to be a Chiefs fan, there were a lot of mistakes. I watched the Chief’s vs Texans game, ref’s there were not calling holding or any penalties that were in favor of the Chiefs.
Seems to me the reason the judge is lolligagging as you put it is because Bolton has the football and is standing up. He held it up, and showed it the ref. There's no reason for the ref to jump in a pile. There's no pile to jump into. O'Connell's reaction says a lot. He knew it was messed up. Finally, IF it was a false start, show the still photo or live play and point out the player who false started. I doubt it can be a false start on the Raiders center, he didn't flinch or move the ball and then move it back, he snapped it into the chest of O'Connell. In one shot, the TE (I believe) is waiving a receiver. If the receiver was lined up in the neutral zone wouldn't that be offsides and the play could go on? It wouldn't be a dead ball. This is a different explanation with different angels: th-cam.com/video/vhwObCUGMHc/w-d-xo.html
In your third pic the play is over because Bolton is standing up celebrating and he is the one who recovered the ball. Plus if you watch it there is no whistle till after the fumble and recovery. Might be the wrong call, but your reasoning is wrong.
It's actually not the wrong call because an illegal shift is only a dead ball foul IF the clock is running, not if the clock is stopped. It's just the rule, like it or not. The refs messed up in this game but nobody is talking bout how they ran 10 seconds off the clock due to an officials mistake...
I see all of these negative comments and just have to laugh. None of you are smart enough to quit watching the NFL. I haven't watched a single NFL game in 6 years. You all know it's rigged but you continue to be upset about what goes on. QUIT WATCHING!!!!!
I quit watching the NBA decades ago, after Game Six between the Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Fakers. All these people are crying about one call, maybe two. In Game Six, the refs cheated FOR THE ENTIRE GAME. I totally agree with your point though. Started watching women's beach volleyball, having a MUCH BETTER time, haven't seen a dubious call yet.
You know the real reason he didn’t dive into the pile? Because there is no pile and Bolton is standing there holding the ball. At least speak to what is on the screen.
You played division 1A?? That was not a dead ball foul. That's why they didn't blow the their whistles. You must have been sleeping when that was discussed. It's probably why you can't get more than 43k subscribers. Please know your football.
there was no whistle until the fumble was recovered by the defense. both line officials called a live ball foul. the far official had an illegal formation (the same signal for false start) and the bottom official had an illegal shift because his wr was not set one sec before the snap. the raiders te was waving at his wr to move back cause he was covering the the te. you guys assumed way too much as to what the crew was thinking and you're both wrong. that was the correct call on the field. just bad takes.
1. Try playing the clip with sound and listen for when the whistle gets blown - it's after Bolton has the ball and is down by contact. You play till the whistle is blown. 2. Why isn't the ref diving into the pile? What pile - Bolton secured the ball, got touched and stood up. There was no pile to inspect. 3. The league issued an explanation with the relevant rule that you guys didn't even mention - the clock wasn't running so the illegal motion (by both WRs) wasn't a dead ball false start. 4. Do better with your analysis.
It’s always the refs fault. Until refs are replaced with AI or something similar, it’s the way things will be. Just accept it already. This is nothing new
I watched a Kansas City game this year I can't recall what the opponent they were playing was but their opponent was outside three of them was ruled offside and I watched the play over and over again even zoomed in and the only thing I could see is they blinked
These 2 guys don’t have any information from the officials themselves to make any of these claims. I’m listening to them while watching the video, and I’m not agreeing with their conclusions! The referee doesn’t need to “dive” or even hurry to the ball because he can’t see with his own beady little eyes that Bolton, #32 Chiefs, has the ball in his hands, NO pile needed! The play could be stopped, but wasn’t because it continued. I believe the line guy thought there was a false start because the ball hit the QB while he wasn’t even looking. That’s Not a false start! The QB DOESN’T have to be ready for the snap!!
My thought exactly. These guys deceptively leave out the video and show screenshots with no context. I went to check other videos and the sequence of events contradict their account. A few others YT vids broke down the play and provided excerpts from the rule book and it’s as legit as it could’ve been. It’s all a fake controversy to stir people up.
Stop It!! The Raiders just blow it like they always do. The ref didn't hike the ball, the ref wasn't playing QB and allow the ball to fumble to the ground. The Chiefs simply recovered a fumble. There wasn't any false start or illegal formation, just the raiders folding under pressure. Not to add they would've missed the field goal anyway. CHIEFS WIN!!
Only two times I’ve ever seen plays blown dead be allowed to continue was against the raiders. This also happened in the playoffs against the bengals in 2021.
One of the reasons they did it is you keep Kansas City at home field advantage, because Buffalo already beat them, that would put 'em both at 10 and 2. With buffalo having the tiebreaker
Listen to the first whistle and by then Bolton is on the ball. Therefore, the play stops at the fumble recovery and the penalty is illegal shift which does not stop the play. There were other calls in the game that were missed or called on both teams that no one is talking about. But the issue here is why would the Raiders run another play without timeouts just like the Bears did the day before? The officiating this years has been horrible so has the clock management by many teams.
From the broadcast, it wasn’t clear that a false start had been signaled until after the play had ended and the ball had already been recovered. Was there a whistle? That’s the important thing to consider, as that’s what ends the play. It looks like the players kept playing. From their action, it doesn’t appear any of them thought the play wasn’t active. The ump lalligagging was a good point, but not really relevant. What’s relevant is the whistle, and that wasn’t even discussed.
What world do you live in where only one or two players try and recover a game winning/losing fumble?? If they thought the play was live then every player within 10 yards would have been fighting in a pile... it's totally clear that most of the players thought the play was dead.
@ It looks to me like the players on the part of the field near the ref that made the call were letting up, while the ones where the action was taking place didn’t hear it.
totaly agree with everything you say and what makes it worse is that all turnovers are supposed to be reviewed so even after review they left it stand.
I have, and every other fan should have, serious issue with these "covert" conversations between the officials and this entity that we constantly hear referred to as "New York." We hv no idea what's being discussed, the rationale or reasoning for the decision-making, and who is making these decisions. The full audio of the conversations between the officiating crews and mysterious "New York" should be made available publicly after EVERY game. With the NFL's firm and entrenched relationship with the gambling industry now, there's more additional scrutiny that should be placed on these live and virtually immediate "officiating interventions" and "overrules." Momentum in football is so crucial and can alter the direction and outcome of games more than most people actually realize. With the NFL's ability to now influence these outcomes, which can be the difference of millions of dollars, every effort should be made to have full and complete transparency. We are obviously going to be told that these overturned, canceled, or altered calls are completely honest, full of the upmost integrity, and to "be fair to both teams" however, in our current social climate of enormous corruption, greed, and deceitful methods, I trust nothing coming from the media or the NFL league office!
They let the Raiders club Mahomes in the helmet and face mask as well as hits after a slide. They missed P/I on both sides and Chris Jones should have had a saddle, those linemen was holding on all day.
Does it make a difference with the clock being stopped vs clock running? Officials explanation states the clock being stopped changes this from a false start to a fumble
The umpire doesn't need to look for anything. Bolton had the ball in his hands. Line Judge running in happens as the ball is being already in Bolton's hands. Your 'unbiased' opinion has a lot of hashtags and none of them say Chiefs. Here's your interaction for the algorithm. All it cost was your credibility.
"Under 2 minutes, if the offense never gets set before the snap, it's a false start IF AND ONLY IF the clock is running. If that clock is stopped, as it was here, then it's an illegal shift and a live ball foul and the play continues."Kirk Herbstreit Stop with the disingenuous takes. This was not a controversial decision. It is literally the rules.
If u see the explabation an illegal shift is a dead ball foul IF the clock is running. When theres a illegal shift AND the clock is stopped its just illegal shift. The official messed up by running onto the field but that doesnt change the rules
Yes it does! There have been live fumbles returned for TDs but were blown dead. The TD never counts, ball goes back to spot of recovery. In effect, rule changed.
@ginjazz4179 beuh did u not read it. When the clock is running the illegal shift is a dead ball foul to stop the clock, when the clock is already stopped it is not a dead ball foul. That was literally the explanation given by the officiating crew after the game my guy
@@talonm8487 What are you talking about? I know the clock was not running. The ref across the field killed the play 1 sec after the snap. End of discussion.
@ginjazz4179 the whistle was not blown until Bolton recovered the ball. Did the official run onto the field saying false start around the same time yes but once again rules state it's a live ball foul IF the clock is stopped. If it's running rhe illegal shift is a false start which would make it a dead ball foul. There's no controversy over this shit, there's just a bunch of whinny fans cuz their teams aren't winning sbs because of the chiefs. I mean I get it but damn. U want ur team to win have em not miss 3 kicks or not snap the ball when the qb ain't looking. If yalls teams were a little better refs wouldn't be a factor in the first place. And like I said the 10 second runoff was caused due to an officiating mistake and nobody says shit bit I'd it was against whoever the chiefs were playing it would be worldwide news all over twitter
This is were your wrong. LV's outside receiver failed to set before the snap and continued moving.. That was the first penalty and was the only penalty that was enforceable and negated any other offensive penalty that happened after. The line judge made the call that the LV's receiver was behind the line but not set (an illegal shift live ball fowl). KC declined enforcement of the penalty. The result of the play was a turnover. KC's ball. You can't come on and read a refs mind and say "he thinks the plays over." You don't know! He was probably more concerned with who has position of the ball IMA. Or if he can take KC BBQ home on in carry-on bag...... Cry me a river LV.
I didn't even know about this one but you can file it right under the no shit category. Certain players & coaches get their asses kissed & it just pisses on the rule book 😠
Ok, I will admit that I probably have 1/1000000 football knowledge as you guys but after watching YOUR video several times it is still obvious that the back judge threw his flag well before the far side line judge came in to call off sides. The back judge threw the flag for illegal motion
Side judges are not allowed to run on the field during play unless they are blowing it dead.
Which he did when Bolton was on the ball
Where is it in the rulebook?
The league office hates the raiders
Always have..
Fact
And thts bs you can't have tht kanna chit in any league. Wer the ppl tht run the league don't lik a particular team,thts bs....we put our blood sweat tears n2 this lik the other teams
@@Thomas-ze2euWHAT?
Tank damn it don't complain Raidernation. Draft shadeur or hunter let OConnell start. Tank!
Really starting to believe the refs are not raider fans.
Never were
Nfl hated us since al sued them and won
It's not about officiating. It's about the Raiders sucking.
It’s been that way for 30 years now
@jasonpatrick649 easy to suck when you have to play the chefs and refs
Us Raider fans aren't just dreaming-there's a long history that makes the skepticism understandable. The Al Davis lawsuit and the fallout from it left a mark on the league's relationship with the Raiders. While not every call is biased, it's hard to ignore the patterns over the years that fuel the perception. And now, after what everyone saw on Black Friday, it feels like the rest of the league is finally starting to notice what we’ve been talking about.
That is true,but nobody's safe now that there is 50000000 on line gambling sites to ruin all sports! All about the greenies.
How fn long they gon hold n to tht chit AD is dead and gone,thts childish. Get over it
@Thomas-ze2eu lol looks like a nerve was struck. You missed the point, and the fact you can't spell tells me enough about your character.
Your first mistake is that you are a Raiders fan. Learn the rules. LIVE BALL FOUL is why KC got the ball.
How do you snap the ball and you want a do over? Doesn’t work that way.
The NFL will do everything but admit fault.
They made the right call.
@@JoshBeards😅😅😅😅😅😅
@@colleenc9286 Watch the play. Use your eyes and ears and watch the play. Turn the volume up so you can hear it.
The whistle was not blown until AFTER AFTER AFTER F'N AFTER the fumble was recovered.
@@JoshBeards not according to the rules.
They literally break that down in detail in the video. Or did you not watch it.
@@schmuckytheraiderbear5043 They did not break down the rules. They broke down their opinion of the rules. I listened. They got it wrong. I stopped listening.
chiefs have been the new patriots since mahomes won his first sb
To be a false start the players must all be set, then one or more players moves early. The Raiders players were never set, so its illegal motion, which isnt a dead ball foul. The confusion is that the side judge incorrectly signaled false start. After officials conferred, it was correctly changed to illegal motion. It may not have been the call the Raiders wanted, but it was the correct call according to NFL rules.. Now the fumble part, thats on the Raiders QB for not paying attention. Which he even admitted to.
It's an inadvertent whistle then and it's dead anyway. It's the ref fault to begin with and the leagues incapable of admitting fault.
None of that matters. What matters is the ref stopped the play. This shit happens to the Raiders a lot. Wild card game against Cincinnati in 2022, Joe Burrow is running in the direction of being out of bounds, right before he steps out, the ref blows the whistle and Burrow throws a pass for a touchdown. The touchdown should not have stood because of the inadvertent whistle, but they let it count anyways. You can even see on film the DB stopped pursuing because of the whistle which allowed the receiver to catch it. Then, go back to the last game in Oakland, we needed a first down to seal up the game, but we wanted to keep the clock running to keep the Jags from having time to do anything. Derek Carr started his slide completely inbounds. As the rule states, the play ends when the QB starts his slide. Carr slid out of bounds, so the refs rule that he went out of bounds, which stopped the clock, and gave the Jags enough time to win. The call to stop the clock was an egregious call that compromises player safety.
Doesn't matter, they blew it dead.
It was "illegal shift" not motion. Still not a dead ball foul, but even when flags are picked up, whistles blown by officials are still enforced over all. I've seen them throw flags for late hits after accidental whistles and the rules expert later explained that players are specifically instructed to go by the WHISTLE over everything to protect the players. Penalty flags are then enforced or if they realize there was no penalty, their way of saying "oops, our bad" is that they instruct the teams to simply replay the down and they'd reset the game clock and instruct the time keeper to start the timer at the snap.
Football 101: What matters is that the whistle was blown and the play was declared dead. Doesn’t matter if they were wrong about a false start or illegal shift. Nothing after a dead play whistle actually happens as far as the game is concerned. That’s the problem here - the play was blown dead (right or wrong) but the result of that dead play was allowed to actually stand! Remember, nothing after the whistle on a dead ball play actually happens. The ref blew it dead over a false start (again, right or wrong) but then the umpire allowed the play to play out. An illegal shift is a live ball foul which means a play can continue and the penalty can be accepted or declined at the end of the play, allowing whatever happens to play out…like a fumble. But this was NOT an illegal shift call, it was a false start call. Everyone is in an uproar because it was inexplicably changed to an illegal shift after BEING BLOWN DEAD, thus ensuring victory for the Chiefs.
Who remembers the card in between the sticks and the ball during the Jack Del Rio yeas? Always against the raiders.
Total bs
Or the last game in Oakland when Carr slid inbounds and they ruled him out which saved Jax a timeout. Then they flagged Raiders for delay of game. They could’ve run the clock out of it was called correctly. Instead they lost
I'm a Raiders fan and I think people are blaming the wrong people. It's the Raiders not the officials. There was no one moving before the snap and the false start signal is also the same as illegal formation (a live ball foul) which would be the case if Aiden is correct about the WRs not being set on the line of scrimmage. People keep saying that the ref called flase start, yet no one showed evidence of there being a false start, only an illegal formation or an illegal shift, both making the fumble live.
Issue is that our coach should have took it down to 3 seconds and kicked the 49 yarder.
In a sense you’re right, usually. But also wrong, because even if he did do that, the kicker missed 3 FGA already. I highly doubt if he had run the clock off and attempted the “49 yarder” you wouldn’t ask yourself “why not try to get closer? He’s already missed 3 today?” And let’s say he did miss the 49 yarder. You wouldn’t be pissed that they didn’t even TRY to get closer after 3 missed already?
In the moment, I was excited that AOC was able to even get in FG range, and in the moment knowing we had no timeouts, even I was telling myself, “get closer get closer get closer.” Coaching is difficult and with the emotions of the ups and downs, that is a tough call to try to get closer or just try to kick a long game winner, after factoring in everything from the previous 4 QTRS.
Two people were moving before the snap, the left end and the right guard. That's why this is illegal shift.
@@youngdrudown kicker missed all FGs 55 yards or deeper. First one was dead center but short. That makes the issue leg strength, not accuracy. Kicker has made 90% of FGs this season inside of 50, I like those odds.
@@chrismorrison9140 it's illegal shift because TE and WRs were moving. I seen no lineman moving in any shots except the right guard giving the center the tap to snap, which is legal.
@@lc5786 yeah I like those odds too. Hell I would’ve had faith in Carlson from 50+ again if we had no other choice, he’s money for us. But when you factor in “icing the kicker” and him possibly getting in his own head after kicking the ground the missed kick prior, why make a harder kick? If a kicker had 100% accuracy his whole career and was a guaranteed 3 points every time, teams are still going to try to score touchdowns. Because why make things harder? I just think it came down to making a kick easier rather than what his range or stats were. Even if it was Janikowski, I would want the ball closer every time every day.
The NFL exec's weren't expecting the Raiders to be competitive and didn't wantcto loose their asses in on-line betting. The fix is in smh JWB
Raiders already covered bets, they didn't need to win.
Godell again fucn over us
@@lc5786Exactly 👍
@lc5786 NOT the LIVE betting lines. The amount that is wagered during the actual game is huge.
Raiders fan for 50 plus years. Every team in the league besides the Chiefs must be aware that in a close game, the Chiefs are getting every single call and the other team is getting none. Zero. Zilch.
There are rules and there are Raider rules.
And another R on top that rigging..
Bengals & Raiders playoff game where the whistle was blown and the touchdown pass thrown by the Bengals *after the whistle* still counted.
What was that game a few years back where the Chiefs got 5 downs because of an inadvertent whistle nobody heard?
Last year they got a touchdown after the whistle blown dead
That’s a lie, and it was 2 years ago in the Cincy. And they didn’t get a TD.
You don't know when, where, against who, but you know it happened? Ok. Great comment.
Resulted in a Chiefs punt. Huge deal.
A bad call against the Raiders what a shock we got the holy roller in a game that meant nothing tuck rule immaculate Deception.
They make up penalties as the game goes on. Remember when they pulled that index card to measure a raiders first down. Smh... Never happened prior to that and definitely never happened years after it.
Watching this live i heard the whistle and thought it was dead. I was completely shocked when they gave the ball to the Chiefs. The NFL has to adopt full time refs. These things are just completely unacceptable.
So........the raider players had nothing to do with botching the final play of the game, right? OK.
That’s irrelevant the botch play is the false start bird brain..
@36madness delusional fool had a thought? Let me guess. Typical chiefs hater, right? Lol
@36madness the botched play was clearly a recoverable fumble doofus. Ever watch a nfl game before?
If only this was the first incident of discrimination against the Raiders. There could be books written on this kind of BS.....
It's not about officiating. It's about the Raiders sucking.
@@jasonpatrick649You suck and nobody cares
It's only dead if a whistle was blown. Yes, Max Crosby should rush the passer if there's no whistle, you always play to the whistle.
It’s my understanding that the whistle doesn’t end the play. The play ends for whatever reason decided by the official(s) and whistles are then blown to tell the players that the play is over.
Whistle signifies the play is dead. Whether inadvertent or not. An inadvertent whistle results in a replay of down.
The ref running in from the top of the screen motioning false start blew his whistle so that means the play is dead
Whistle was blown
@Justaduck-u3o it didn't end the play in the playoff game between Bengals and raiders a few years back when there was an inadvertent whistle near the end of the first half and the Bengals got a TD on the play
Man, people need to have some objectivity. I agree, the refs were bad. Let's not forget, at the end of the 1st half. They blew a play dead, causing a 10 second runoff against the Chiefs. Besides, it wasn't a false start. The receivers were never set when the ball was hiked. Causing it to be an illegal shift(an unbalanced line, because no reciever on line of scrimmage). They only blow that dead if it's a running clock. It wasn't, because of the ball spike on the previous play per the NFL. That's the rule. Don't blame the refs for poor execution of the players.
So whether or not the players are “executing” the refs do not need to be held accountable for anything? Yeah okay that makes sense. So if a guy gets punched in the face and the refs don’t see it, no one is to blame right, because thats what the players executed. Yeah, real objective logic there bud.
That was a new rule implemented this year. They even talked about it during the game so the 10 second runoff was legit, and it wasn’t dramatically affecting the game. They seem to sprinkle a little penalties in against the Chiefs just so it looks fair.
@@JEYA-nm4jl the runoff was the rule, but the call was bad. They blew the play dead inadvertently. By rule, an offensive penalty in the last two minutes. Is an automatic 10 second runoff. Even if the call was bad.
false start is not a player safety issue. False start is a dead ball foul, meaning the play has not yet started. An offensive player simply flinching is not a safety issue, and even if they started downfield the defenders are ready, just waiting for that first hint of movement so They can charge. Defensive Off-sides IS a player safety issue, because the offense has to be set and not moving, making them vulnerable to a free hit. So the whistle is blown on contact with an opponent or with a free unblocked charge at the QB.
It’s absolutely irrefutable at this point, the NFL officiating is 100% in the Chiefs favor. As a Steelers fan I’m absolutely NOT looking forward to my Christmas being ruined by the Refs. The NFL will do anything to help the Chiefs 3-peat.
Well now that Donald is president he is going to put a stop on all that he allready put a stop on the kneeling
He's going to give me a nice used truck. With fat tires. Santa is a big disgrace. Totally fake. Where his immigration papers @? Ain't no north pole in America. Need two walls now . North AND South@@kenjohnston1257
@@kenjohnston1257 possibly the stupidest comment I've seen
I clicked this vid to see if theres still crybabys blaming the refs and BAM the 1st comment ..... BTW they quit kneeling to the National Anthem b/c of PRESIDENT Trump
L
It is more important to have a full screen than the half with you in it.
Why would the ref jump in... there was no pile..32 already stood up with the ball
I believe the rules state that if the clock is running you can have a deadbolt foul. You cannot have a deadbolt foul if clock is stopped. The clock was stopped because Raiders qb threw the ball into the ground the previous play. Therefore there cannot be a deadbolt call by the ref.
*dead ball
What?
Whistle blows play over
@colleenc9286 Whistle was not blown until after the fumble was recovered. Watch the play with the sound on high. Watch the play frame by frame. You might learn something.
@@JoshBeards It doesn't matter if the whistle blew, the ref across the field began waving his arms over his head 1 second after the snap ending any opportunity of a play happening.
Y'all aren't showing the video with sound or the actual call. No whistle until after Bolton secured the ball and the whistle is THEN heard and a bunch of them.
The rules:
SECTION 30 SHIFT
A shift is any simultaneous change of position or stance by two or more offensive players before the snap after the ball has been
made ready for play for a scrimmage down, including movement to the line of scrimmage by the offensive team prior to the snap
(7-4-7).
ARTICLE 6. COMPLETE STOP. All offensive players are required to come to a complete stop and be in a set position
simultaneously for at least one full second prior to the snap. Failure to do so is an illegal shift (see 7-4-2-Item 6 for such an illegal
shift foul after the two-minute warning of either half which converts to a false start).
Item 6. Shift Converts to False Start. WITH THE GAME CLOCK RUNNING after the two-minute warning of either half, if all 11 offensive players are not set simultaneously for one full second prior to the snap, it is a false start. If all 11 players get set, and then two players shift without resetting prior to the snap, it is a LIVE BALL FOUL FOR ILLEGAL SHIFT.
The game clock was NOT RUNNING.
The chain of events:
Dead clock on a spiked ball. 0:15 left. The formation sets momentarily. Trying to avoid an illegal formation, the QB an tight end both work to get the WR off the line with the QB clapping, evidently to get everyone set. The guard takes this as the signal to snap the ball and he taps the center. The center snaps the ball to an unprepared QB. 2 Flags are thrown almost simultaneously from both sides of the field. KC recovered the ball with 0:12 left. Whistles start blowing with 0:11 left. Refs figure out what just happened.
From the NFL:
“Had the clock been running at the snap, then by rule an illegal shift would convert to a false start,” a league spokesman said, via The Athletic. “Since the clock was stopped (spike on the second-down play), an illegal shift is a LIVE BALL FOUL.”
It's a true testament to how well the lead official knew the minute details of these rules. Really impressive!
What an insane series of events. The Raiders should have won this game. IF they made the FG. But they snapped the ball when there was confusion with their formation(with lots of noise from the Chiefs fans to make it worse) as the TE and WR were moving. Sucks for the Raiders and their fans, but not really so bad. They're 2-10 positioning themselves for a top draft pick.
Just when you thought you've seen it all, right? This was an insane ending. Again.
At least that's the story for now. We'll see if the explanation changes this week.
Godell is a joke hes responsible 4 this bs bc he want kc to 3peat😢
I've been a Raiders fan for more than 50 years and in all those years, I cannot remember one single game where the Raiders were the beneficiary of a call like this one where a bad ref call ended the game, gifting the game to the Raiders.
It seems like every year or two there's a terrible call like this one against the Raiders but never in our favor.
Sure the Raiders get breaks on bad calls, just not ones where the other team cannot come back from it.
This video is evidence of the collusion against the Raiders. I don't know the rules like you do but assuming you are correct, I'm also assuming that the refs would know this rule since it is apparently drilled into them every chance the NFL gets. And yet, the biggest moment of the biggest game of the year for the Raiders, the referees all of a sudden forgot referreeing 101?
I don't buy that. This was intentional. It had to be.
Thank you for breaking this down.
Another piece of evidence to use vs the NFL and how the NFL conspires against the Raiders.
Look at their record. That speaks enough to them being a basement level team. The woe is me lamentations while funny are just an indicator of stupid.
It's not about officiating. It's about the Raiders sucking.
@vihtoripuurola3775 you seem to know about stupid😅😅😅😅😅
@@vihtoripuurola3775 did you say something?
@@jasonpatrick649need a tissue?😅😅😅
Bam. For all the chefs fans. Who don't know the rules. Here it is. Proof KC got help
Actually this guy’s analysis is really bad because he assumes the refs blew the whistle for player safely reasons when that wasn’t the case at all. The whistle was for a false start. But by rule, with the clock stopped with less than 2 minutes to go, it’s a live ball foul. The Raiders fumbled and the Chiefs recovered. The call was CORRECT!!!! Go read Kirk Herbstreet’s comments on it. He knows way more than the bozo who made this video. Also, don’t believe every video you watch on TH-cam. Because this one was very wrong.
@@jeff8476white blows play over
nope
Yet dey think it's them thts winning gms,KC FANS NJOY THE REST OF THIS SEASON YALL NOT GON 3PEAT
@Thomas-ze2eu You're gonna end it when they do ain't you...😂
The NFL is now giving the Chiefs the same treatment they gave every Tom Brady team for 20 years. Every possible advantage, never the victim of any controversial call.
But what eventually occurred with “The Brady Show” is that people got tired of that same plot line and Super Bowl story line. So Super Bowl RATINGS started to level off. That’s huge to the NFL script writers.
I for one, stopped watching super bowls featuring Brady because the officiating was so cheesy to boost his teams into the playoffs.
I guarantee is they write the Chiefs into this season’s “Finale episode” I will once again go to the movies etc instead of watching. It was funny seeing how packed the movie theater was during the Tampa Bay / Chiefs Super Bowl. I wasn’t the only person who had reached that level of disinterest in the fakery.
Bullshit!! The Patriots knocked the shit out of everybody for years n years. Refs in love with Tommy Boy? Absolutely!! Didn’t matter much with the Brady rules since the Pats blew everyone out!!
I AM NOT A PATRIOTS FAN btw
I grew near Boston. I can call BS even when it adversely affects my team. My personal integrity is worth more than the fortunes of some recreational organization. Belechek was a dirty player. I did not like his style. But he did put together some impressive teams with Brady leading the charge.
I've lived in KC for many decades. Mahomes and Reid are great for the community and they are great to the community. I cannot believe that either of them would allow their personal integrity to be tarnished by being involved in unscrupulous acts like rigging games.
Finally, do you know many NFL players? I have met many. Most are loud & arrogant AF. Many are dumb. There is no way that the NFL could conspire to throw games like this and have these guys keep it a secret.
You obviously don't watch Chiefs game if you think they're never the victim of controversial calls.
@@admiralgree3873 Before Mahomes, I watched a Raven's lineman hold a Chief's rusher with both hands clasped on the shoulders pads & moving the rusher right to left. Ref was 10 feet away and did not throw a flag. That is just one example of how refs can miss things.
@@KarlH1980 they control the outcome with their officiating. Like calling an illegal shift instead of illegal motion. Or not calling an obvious targeting on a pivotal play in the Georgia - Georgia tech game.
Plays are not dead when an official runs with his hands up. Plays are dead when the officials blow whistles. No whistle was blown until after the normal course of play, after the Chiefs had recovered the fumble. Replay the play. Slo mo it. Run it at full speed. I don't care, Amy way you cut it the whistle blew stopping play AFTER the fumble recovery. I don't care if you played college ball somewhere.
How many plays have been called dead …..and yet…..who ever ends ups with the fumble gets the ball. This is why more and more refs are letting plays continue based on uncertainty.
I think most new rules leave too much for inturpitation.
Name one play where the whistle was blown prior to a fumble where the defense got to keep the ball. One.
th-cam.com/video/bq_Cx0N6K6Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TCcZvUsPhNA9miMU
Nothing that happens after the whistle is blown should count. But the whistle wasn't blown until the Chiefs had recovered the ball. So all that matters was whether it was a false start or an illegal shift. According to the statement issued by the NFL, it was indeed an illegal shift.
EDIT: Even Pat Mahomes couldn't believe the call. He was like "this is getting too obvious". PS Im a diehard Chiefs fan. OOPS! I just went to Chat GPT and got an objective evaluation of Illegal Shift vs False start by asking it the question "Please give an evaluation of the following two NFL Penalties: False Start vs Illegal Shift". It gave a through technical comparison including a table. Here what it said:
Evaluation of NFL Penalties: False Start vs. Illegal Shift
False Start:
Definition: A false start occurs when an offensive player (usually a lineman or another player in a set position) moves in a way that simulates the start of the play before the ball is snapped.
Key Characteristics:
Typically involves abrupt or jerky motion.
It is a dead-ball foul, meaning the play is immediately stopped and does not proceed.
Common offenders are offensive linemen, wide receivers, or players in motion who fail to reset.
Penalty:
Results in a 5-yard loss for the offensive team.
No play occurs after the foul is called, as it is blown dead.
Impact on the Game:
Disrupts offensive rhythm.
Particularly costly in short-yardage or crucial downs (e.g., 3rd and short).
Often indicative of poor focus, nerves, or communication issues.
Illegal Shift:
Definition: An illegal shift occurs when two or more offensive players move or shift positions and fail to come to a complete stop for at least one second before the ball is snapped.
Key Characteristics:
Unlike a false start, motion itself is not the issue but rather the failure to reset after motion.
Often involves miscommunication or poor timing on motions or shifts.
Penalty:
Results in a 5-yard loss, but the play is allowed to proceed unless the penalty is accepted.
This is a live-ball foul, meaning the result of the play is considered if the defense declines the penalty.
Impact on the Game:
Affects offensive timing and execution, especially for teams that use frequent pre-snap motion.
Indicates a lack of synchronization or discipline in the offense.
CONCLUSION: NFL made the correct call. Raiders lost fair and square.
Thank you for being honest. It was obvious to most people 🤙🏼
Uh a division one now is gonna tell us how it is give me a break
Hmmm... apparently you guys are the only ones who think the call was 'egregious'...
Now why don't you visualize this: it cannot be a false start, clock was not starting until the ball snapped. ONCE IT IS SNAPPED the clock runs. ONLY THEN does the "illegal shift" penalty occur. There is no provision to wind the clock back and say no play at that time
I'm so tired of watching the NFL rig games for the Chiefs. I've been watching for 35 years, and I'll never watch again.
Don’t tell a Chiefs fan that. They’ll say it was the ref that made you hike the ball early?
Like it was the refs that made Raiders miss 3 field goals?
@ they were all 50+ wasn’t like they were chip shots.
@@dbrandon273And the last one would've been 50+ so....😂
No need to get so complex The official signaled dead ball at the snap. No play and no turnover can happen afterwards
It wasn't called dead though. Illegal shift and bad snap that was recovered by KC. Very simple.
Incorrect. Learn football 101.
@@vihtoripuurola3775 It was called dead when the ref across the field waved his arms over his head, that ended the play.
@@ginjazz4179 bolton already had the ball at that point
@@myhoodiskc So?
The Center Snapped the Ball, bounced off the Quarterback’s Chest onto the ground. The Ball is still live until someone recovers it. That’s what I think .
Except the ref first blew the whistle
@@colleenc9286 after the ball was recovered on a live ball foul. It doesn't take a KC fan to understand.
@echohotel4963 nope before the ball hit the QB perhaps a chefs fan can't comprehend that . Whistle blows play over period
perhaps a chefs fan can't understand rules
@@echohotel4963I'll type slower for you😅
Refs in this game worst call in NFL History. Look the refs took the win away from the Raiders and gave it too the Kansas City Chiefs a thanksgiving gift. “Super Bad Call”.
Huh? Even if they do call a false start... ball gets moved back 5 yds and the Raiders gotta try a 55 yd fg to win it... Raiders kicker was already 0-3 from 50+ in the game... what makes you think he was gonna make that one?🤣
It was 100% the correct call and this ex-college football player doesn't know the basic rules.
It’s over and done with! I don’t know why they didn’t kick a field goal? And I feel bad for raiders fans because I know exactly what they feel! As a Vikings fan and how they handled the face mask on Darnold! Even the DB knew that he did it because he grabbed his own helmet in disbelief that he did it! But this season I’ve never seen such horrible officiating in the NFL?
Online gambling.....in a nutshell
Good Lord. Where do you two get your information? False starts aren't stopped for player safety. It's a dead-ball foul... plain and simple. Unabated to the QB... that would be for safety, but offsides isn't. False starts can be a minor movement... it's not a safety issue. If that were the case, offsides would also be a dead-ball foul.
The referee at the top of the screen clearly calls a false start. However, a false start occurs when a player who is set moves before the snap. In this case, players weren't set when the ball was snapped - that's illegal motion. It matters which penalty was called because a false start is a dead-ball foul. The play is over at that point. An illegal shift is not a dead-ball foul, meaning the play can continue after the flag is thrown. That's why the Chiefs were awarded the ball because the fumble was live. The ref at the top of the screen was wrong. Refs change calls all of the time. That's why they huddle and talk. You're both wrong, and everyone needs to stop whining. Make a friggin FG and you wouldn't have been put in that position to begin with.
It’s not a well officiated football game. It meets betting criteria.
Huh?? Last play had no affect on the betting lines😂
Ok, so when the ref says the play is dead and it doesn't matter what illegal thing happens after,he doesn't care, because the play is dead, so when a play is over, and there are two players fighting, why does he throw a flag, the play is over, it's dead, come on man
I’ve got a novel idea: How about if the Raiders field goal kicker makes just one out of his three missed field goal attempts? Maybe that’ll stop the crying.
Professional officiating is necessary in a game that generates this much revenue.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the mistake the refs made right before half time and the chiefs were penalized for it; clock time reduced by 10 seconds leaving the Chiefs with 4 seconds not enough time a play? Did you’ll forget about that!
The NFL decided to give the Chef's a 3 peat & nobodys gonna stop it... But ya'll keep thinkin its legit.🧐🤪🤡
Bills,Steelers and Ravens got a little somn 2 say bout it
No dog in the game? Yeah, right. You're blaming the umpire when Bolton is already standing up with the ball.
The refs were likely told by replay assist that it wasn't a false start. I watched it live, the refs had a 60 sec conversation/meeting.
If you watch it slow motion the replay assist for it right. He snapped the ball, QB wasn't ready, fumble
The ball was recovered before the ref blew the whistle. It was the correct call.
Lets not 4 get carlson missed 3 fgsthough...
Yes! We need a new kicker.
That was his chance for redemption.
I doubt you would say that if he had one more chance to win the game at the end and made it
So, I went back and watched it again without the silly screenshots and talking head assumptions. There is no whistle until the ball is clearly recoverd by KC. If there is no whistle players are taught to keep playing.
If the official was trying to stop the play, he should have been whistling as well. The circling hands signal means more than one thing as it covers multiple illegal procedures, some of which allow the play to go on. So just claiming he was signalling false start is inaccurate at best and an assumption at worse. I know the assumption is because he started moving in, but again... that's an assumption.
The reason no one is jumping into a pile is because there was no pile. Bolton clearly recovered it and stood up with the ball without any scrum or pile to dive into. So, again, poor assumptions being made by the hosts here based on the video evidence. Even if your assumption of his thoughts is correct, he was obviously overruled in the actual call and didn't blow the play dead. In fact the ball is on the ground before he even leaves the sideline!
I was hoping for actual evidence and explanation based on rules that something was done incorrectly, not conjecture about the ref's thoughts and assumptions about actions.
Both officials on each sideline threw their flags and blew their whistles simultaneously at the instant the ball was snapped. There is a wider camera angle available shot from the Kansas City sideline looking towards the Raiders sideline, it can be seen plain as day that whistles are blown before anybody even gets their hands on the fumble. The penalty is irrelevant, the whole argument over this is the fact that whistles were blown at the snap calling the play dead, which means that the fumble recovery can’t happen during a dead ball.
Fumbles have been recovered numerous times by opposing teams in situations like this in the past, and the NFL has always stated time and time again that if a whistle is blown (even in situations where whistles were blown by mistake)the ball is instantly dead and a fumble recovery is nullified.
The Raiders had missed opportunities as well as Kansas. My family is diehard Raider fans for 30 years, I happen to be a Chiefs fan, there were a lot of mistakes. I watched the Chief’s vs Texans game, ref’s there were not calling holding or any penalties that were in favor of the Chiefs.
Kansas does not have an NFL football team.
@ they may not but their still 11-1…ugly wins are still wins…
This doesn’t surprise me. Don’t you know that the Chiefs are the new Patriots?
Seems to me the reason the judge is lolligagging as you put it is because Bolton has the football and is standing up. He held it up, and showed it the ref. There's no reason for the ref to jump in a pile. There's no pile to jump into. O'Connell's reaction says a lot. He knew it was messed up. Finally, IF it was a false start, show the still photo or live play and point out the player who false started. I doubt it can be a false start on the Raiders center, he didn't flinch or move the ball and then move it back, he snapped it into the chest of O'Connell. In one shot, the TE (I believe) is waiving a receiver. If the receiver was lined up in the neutral zone wouldn't that be offsides and the play could go on? It wouldn't be a dead ball.
This is a different explanation with different angels: th-cam.com/video/vhwObCUGMHc/w-d-xo.html
Happy for you two brothers almost 50k subscribers
In your third pic the play is over because Bolton is standing up celebrating and he is the one who recovered the ball. Plus if you watch it there is no whistle till after the fumble and recovery. Might be the wrong call, but your reasoning is wrong.
These guys have no idea what they're talking about. The ref wasn't "diving into the pile" because it was a clear recovery by Nick Bolton.
It's actually not the wrong call because an illegal shift is only a dead ball foul IF the clock is running, not if the clock is stopped. It's just the rule, like it or not. The refs messed up in this game but nobody is talking bout how they ran 10 seconds off the clock due to an officials mistake...
Yes! Thank you! Finally someone who gets it. This video did a terrible analysis.
I see all of these negative comments and just have to laugh. None of you are smart enough to quit watching the NFL. I haven't watched a single NFL game in 6 years. You all know it's rigged but you continue to be upset about what goes on. QUIT WATCHING!!!!!
I quit watching the NBA decades ago, after Game Six between the Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Fakers. All these people are crying about one call, maybe two. In Game Six, the refs cheated FOR THE ENTIRE GAME.
I totally agree with your point though. Started watching women's beach volleyball, having a MUCH BETTER time, haven't seen a dubious call yet.
Then why click on this video and read all the comments? Oh I know because it's entertainment just like NFL football
You know the real reason he didn’t dive into the pile? Because there is no pile and Bolton is standing there holding the ball. At least speak to what is on the screen.
The whole NFL hates us but they know we have a big fan base and we're Raiders till we Die. Raiders!!!!!
nobody cares.
You played division 1A?? That was not a dead ball foul. That's why they didn't blow the their whistles. You must have been sleeping when that was discussed. It's probably why you can't get more than 43k subscribers. Please know your football.
Thank you for breaking this down and givng us this excellent review here.
there was no whistle until the fumble was recovered by the defense. both line officials called a live ball foul. the far official had an illegal formation (the same signal for false start) and the bottom official had an illegal shift because his wr was not set one sec before the snap. the raiders te was waving at his wr to move back cause he was covering the the te. you guys assumed way too much as to what the crew was thinking and you're both wrong. that was the correct call on the field. just bad takes.
1. Try playing the clip with sound and listen for when the whistle gets blown - it's after Bolton has the ball and is down by contact. You play till the whistle is blown.
2. Why isn't the ref diving into the pile? What pile - Bolton secured the ball, got touched and stood up. There was no pile to inspect.
3. The league issued an explanation with the relevant rule that you guys didn't even mention - the clock wasn't running so the illegal motion (by both WRs) wasn't a dead ball false start.
4. Do better with your analysis.
#rigged
It’s always the refs fault. Until refs are replaced with AI or something similar, it’s the way things will be. Just accept it already. This is nothing new
I watched a Kansas City game this year I can't recall what the opponent they were playing was but their opponent was outside three of them was ruled offside and I watched the play over and over again even zoomed in and the only thing I could see is they blinked
I think the games should be played with no refs, as much as everyone complains about them.
These 2 guys don’t have any information from the officials themselves to make any of these claims. I’m listening to them while watching the video, and I’m not agreeing with their conclusions! The referee doesn’t need to “dive” or even hurry to the ball because he can’t see with his own beady little eyes that Bolton, #32 Chiefs, has the ball in his hands, NO pile needed! The play could be stopped, but wasn’t because it continued. I believe the line guy thought there was a false start because the ball hit the QB while he wasn’t even looking. That’s Not a false start! The QB DOESN’T have to be ready for the snap!!
My thought exactly. These guys deceptively leave out the video and show screenshots with no context. I went to check other videos and the sequence of events contradict their account. A few others YT vids broke down the play and provided excerpts from the rule book and it’s as legit as it could’ve been. It’s all a fake controversy to stir people up.
Stop It!! The Raiders just blow it like they always do. The ref didn't hike the ball, the ref wasn't playing QB and allow the ball to fumble to the ground. The Chiefs simply recovered a fumble. There wasn't any false start or illegal formation, just the raiders folding under pressure. Not to add they would've missed the field goal anyway. CHIEFS WIN!!
Man, you guys are awesome well informed.
Where was the false start? I watched the play several times and didn't see a false start. Can you point that out?
Only two times I’ve ever seen plays blown dead be allowed to continue was against the raiders. This also happened in the playoffs against the bengals in 2021.
Just give the Chiefs the Superbowl trophy and end the season.
I want you to watch it
One of the reasons they did it is you keep Kansas City at home field advantage, because Buffalo already beat them, that would put 'em both at 10 and 2.
With buffalo having the tiebreaker
Listen to the first whistle and by then Bolton is on the ball. Therefore, the play stops at the fumble recovery and the penalty is illegal shift which does not stop the play.
There were other calls in the game that were missed or called on both teams that no one is talking about. But the issue here is why would the Raiders run another play without timeouts just like the Bears did the day before? The officiating this years has been horrible so has the clock management by many teams.
From the broadcast, it wasn’t clear that a false start had been signaled until after the play had ended and the ball had already been recovered. Was there a whistle? That’s the important thing to consider, as that’s what ends the play. It looks like the players kept playing. From their action, it doesn’t appear any of them thought the play wasn’t active.
The ump lalligagging was a good point, but not really relevant. What’s relevant is the whistle, and that wasn’t even discussed.
What world do you live in where only one or two players try and recover a game winning/losing fumble?? If they thought the play was live then every player within 10 yards would have been fighting in a pile... it's totally clear that most of the players thought the play was dead.
@ It looks to me like the players on the part of the field near the ref that made the call were letting up, while the ones where the action was taking place didn’t hear it.
Or your QB wasnt ready for the snap and you lost.
Chefs ARE getting calls. No question.
But that wasnt one.
Not controversy here!! Raiders choked!!! It's what 2-10 teams do all the time!! Losers
It was a false start raiders win the game f the refs
Thank you 🙏 you guys are real ones !!!! Someone is point this out the correct way. ESPN NFL NETWORK all TURNING THEIR HEADS ! #Rams Fan
Finally! Too many ppl not mentioning the ref blew the play DEAD
totaly agree with everything you say and what makes it worse is that all turnovers are supposed to be reviewed so even after review they left it stand.
I have, and every other fan should have, serious issue with these "covert" conversations between the officials and this entity that we constantly hear referred to as "New York." We hv no idea what's being discussed, the rationale or reasoning for the decision-making, and who is making these decisions. The full audio of the conversations between the officiating crews and mysterious "New York" should be made available publicly after EVERY game.
With the NFL's firm and entrenched relationship with the gambling industry now, there's more additional scrutiny that should be placed on these live and virtually immediate "officiating interventions" and "overrules."
Momentum in football is so crucial and can alter the direction and outcome of games more than most people actually realize. With the NFL's ability to now influence these outcomes, which can be the difference of millions of dollars, every effort should be made to have full and complete transparency.
We are obviously going to be told that these overturned, canceled, or altered calls are completely honest, full of the upmost integrity, and to "be fair to both teams" however, in our current social climate of enormous corruption, greed, and deceitful methods, I trust nothing coming from the media or the NFL league office!
They let the Raiders club Mahomes in the helmet and face mask as well as hits after a slide. They missed P/I on both sides and Chris Jones should have had a saddle, those linemen was holding on all day.
Does it make a difference with the clock being stopped vs clock running? Officials explanation states the clock being stopped changes this from a false start to a fumble
The umpire doesn't need to look for anything. Bolton had the ball in his hands. Line Judge running in happens as the ball is being already in Bolton's hands. Your 'unbiased' opinion has a lot of hashtags and none of them say Chiefs. Here's your interaction for the algorithm. All it cost was your credibility.
"Under 2 minutes, if the offense never gets set before the snap, it's a false start IF AND ONLY IF the clock is running. If that clock is stopped, as it was here, then it's an illegal shift and a live ball foul and the play continues."Kirk Herbstreit
Stop with the disingenuous takes. This was not a controversial decision. It is literally the rules.
If u see the explabation an illegal shift is a dead ball foul IF the clock is running. When theres a illegal shift AND the clock is stopped its just illegal shift. The official messed up by running onto the field but that doesnt change the rules
Yes it does! There have been live fumbles returned for TDs but were blown dead. The TD never counts, ball goes back to spot of recovery. In effect, rule changed.
@ginjazz4179 beuh did u not read it. When the clock is running the illegal shift is a dead ball foul to stop the clock, when the clock is already stopped it is not a dead ball foul. That was literally the explanation given by the officiating crew after the game my guy
@@talonm8487 What are you talking about? I know the clock was not running. The ref across the field killed the play 1 sec after the snap. End of discussion.
@ginjazz4179 the whistle was not blown until Bolton recovered the ball. Did the official run onto the field saying false start around the same time yes but once again rules state it's a live ball foul IF the clock is stopped. If it's running rhe illegal shift is a false start which would make it a dead ball foul. There's no controversy over this shit, there's just a bunch of whinny fans cuz their teams aren't winning sbs because of the chiefs. I mean I get it but damn. U want ur team to win have em not miss 3 kicks or not snap the ball when the qb ain't looking. If yalls teams were a little better refs wouldn't be a factor in the first place. And like I said the 10 second runoff was caused due to an officiating mistake and nobody says shit bit I'd it was against whoever the chiefs were playing it would be worldwide news all over twitter
This is were your wrong. LV's outside receiver failed to set before the snap and continued moving.. That was the first penalty and was the only penalty that was enforceable and negated any other offensive penalty that happened after. The line judge made the call that the LV's receiver was behind the line but not set (an illegal shift live ball fowl). KC declined enforcement of the penalty. The result of the play was a turnover. KC's ball. You can't come on and read a refs mind and say "he thinks the plays over." You don't know! He was probably more concerned with who has position of the ball IMA. Or if he can take KC BBQ home on in carry-on bag...... Cry me a river LV.
I didn't even know about this one but you can file it right under the no shit category. Certain players & coaches get their asses kissed & it just pisses on the rule book 😠
This is like a couple weeks ago the refs allowing the rams to call back to back timeouts without a play between.
Raiders created the mess....Just kick the FG like 90% of the NFL other teams would have done !!!
Ok, I will admit that I probably have 1/1000000 football knowledge as you guys but after watching YOUR video several times it is still obvious that the back judge threw his flag well before the far side line judge came in to call off sides. The back judge threw the flag for illegal motion
The HATE the raiders get!!!
The refs need to be held accountable for their actions! Bottom line!
That was well communicated, thanks for sharing.