FILM DEVELOPING - KODAK XTOL DILUTIONS
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2019
- SUPPORT MY CHANNEL ON PATREON
I have a Patreon Page where you can become a Patron of 'Shoot Film Like a Boss' and watch un-released videos, blog posts and my other film photography related ideas and thoughts.
PATREON / shootfilmlikeaboss
ABOUT THIS VIDEO
I've had some interesting comments and messages recently about developer dilutions
so I thought I would try something I've never done and that's shoot a roll of film
and see the differences between Stock, 1+3, 1+2 and 1+1 with Kodak XTOL.
TIMES WERE
Stock - 8.5m
1:1 - 12m
1:2 - 15.5m
1:3 - 18m
Each tank had at least 400ml of developer.
I have read that higher dilution increases sharpness, or I should say acutance, and also the grain of the image
but I have always stayed away from higher dilutions in fear of introducing unwanted grain.
After these results I wouldn't mind trying higher dilutions with XTOL, maybe even 1+4
to save developer. I go through a lot!
Anyway, don't take my word for it, try it for yourselves and let us all know how you get on.
Happy Halloween!
SHOUT OUTS TO OTHER CHANNELS
TH-cam Shout Out
Azriel Knight's Channel
ABOUT MY VIDEOS
If my videos inspire, create ideas and help others in film photography and darkroom work then it's worth making them.
I always welcome comments that are useful towards the video subject that will help others understand the process within.
Keep shooting and thanks for watching.
MY SOCIAL LINKS
PATREON / shootfilmlikeaboss
WEBSITE: www.shootfilmlikeaboss.com
FACEBOOK PAGE: / shootfilmlikeaboss
INSTAGRAM: / shootfilmlikeaboss
TWITTER: / shootfilmlikeaboss
MUSIC CREDITING - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
See video description for developing times. Happy Halloween!
Very opportune timing here - I just mixed up my first 5 litres of xtol stock last night 🙂 - great vid!
Thanks for the shoutout. Great video. I see you made use of the mask ;)
You might like to take a look at using your XTOL replenished given how often you use it. You only end up discarding 70ml of developer *per roll* regardless of the volume of fluid you need in your tank giving significant economy and once it becomes seasoned (takes a half dozen rolls or so) you'll get the same sharpness as diluted XTOL without the contrast reduction.
Mix up a bag of developer and fill a 2L jug (or whatever size you like) as your stock tank and store the rest in smaller containers. After filling your developing tank and dealing with initial agitation, pour 70ml of fresh developer from your replenishment reserve into your stock tank. When done developing pour the waste developer back into the stock tank discarding the overflow. That's all there is to it. Next time you need to mix another batch of XTOL don't throw out what's in your stock tank, just keep using it and replenishing. Folks have kept the same tank of XTOL going for years using a replenishment regime.
Thanks for the video!
I use XTOL replenished in a Jobo, with a container of 2500ml as the 'working solution' and the rest of the XTOL 5L in another container. It works well but I've found at least Pan F Plus seems to work better in a dilute developer, e.g Ultrafin.
Thanks. I use xtol 1:1 and am happy with it. I use it primarily for 35mm, Rodinal for MF.
Thank you for the video, very practical.i personally use xtol replenished usually 1:1 and sometimes 1:2, continous agitation. Had very bad results only with foma 35 Rolls. Tmax, Trix ilford Rolls, comes out great.
Great video Roger! Always enjoy your experiments! I usually develop 1:1 with Xtol however I did try stock with HP5 and didn't like the results. I have tried D76 1:2 and liked it a lot. I will have to try Xtol 1:2 next to see how I like it.
Another interesting experiment, good cost saving, like your experimental approach
Thanks, I normally use 1+3 and have had good consistent results.
Been using Xtol 1:2 as standard for a year now with HP5 and really like it. Use 1:1 if I push because the dev times get stupidly long at 1:2. The one thing to remember with higher dilutions is that you get enough active ingredient present if you are using low volumes e.g. rotary processors. I forget the actual recommendation but I'd personally not go below about 100ml stock per 35mm film equivalent (which is 1:3 in most spiral tanks). Having said all that mixing a batch of 5l and laying it down in glass bottles (like fine wine) every few months is a pain. I'm toying with the idea of switching to Ilfotec HC and mixing it straight from concentrate with a syringe. I suppose all I can do is give it a go but £30 for 1l of concentrate is quite steep if it doesn't suit me!
Thanks Roger, Happy Haloween
I do see a slight increase in contrast more on the highlight side compared to the stock print. Other than that I don’t see a difference. I normally use id11 1+1. I may try 1+2 and 1+3 and see how it does. Thanks for sharing this
Thankyou, I've had a packet of this for a while and have put off using it because I normally use D76. Will get it mixed up this weekend and have a go.
I have D76 also and switch between the two. I don't see much difference but tests like these I need to try more.
Interesting Mr Bond :-) I'm off to see Mr Knight now :-)
Thanks for sharing, boss!
Thank you for the video, good stuff.
The 1+3 dilution, somebody down below commented on the contrast, I just wanted to add that the "3" dilution over "stock" gives more details within the shadows, but specifically, at the same time it gives more detail on the well lit areas, actually what I mean is that the well lit areas become too well lit (the two make negative the situation - overexposure). See the creases on the pumpkin, they wash out and appear overexposed (while the shadow detail is better than "stock").
If your picture has a lot of dark or shadows, the "3", best suits, for better detail.
If it's a picture of a good time at the beach, bright and sunny on the sand, perhaps stick with "stock", to not wash out the welllit detail.
Thanks again!
Yes, thanks for that detail. 👍
Subscribed. Quality content
I tried with ADOX XT-3 using what I would normally replenish the stock solution with, 70ml or 1+6 with stand'ish development - 20 minutes, turn a few times followed by another 20 minutes (guesswork). I think a full hour would be better and turn halfway. Shooting at night: with ~90 sec exposures (reciprocity) on a battered old 1933 Rolleicord to Fomapan 400 retained detail in street lights with photons extracted from the shadows. Not quite 5ml of Rodinol territory but it worked and less grain than expected.
Everyone gets an inclination to do self-portraits occasionally ;->
Enjoyed the Azriel Knight vlogcast.
Ha ha!
You can develope 15 rolls of film in 1 liter stock solution while you can only develope 10 rolls of film when this one liter is diluted. Because you have to calculate a minimum of 100ml stock solution per role in the dilution. For example in 400ml 1 + 3 you can develope only one role and could not reuse the developer. I‘m using XTOL for years now as stock version in one liter charges and a Jobo 1540. Reuse it and every 5 roles increase develope time 15%. It is all perfectly descriped in the Kodak manual which is available as PDF download.
By the way: Great channel!
Cheers. I'll have to look into this replenish system. I use so much XTOL!
There is a liquid version of XTOL called Bellini Eco, which I find indistinguishable from the real thing. It avoids all the bother of mixing and storing. The manufacturer's instructions are to mix it 50-50 with water for stock solution and then use it exactly like XTOL. I simply work out the quantity of developer in a given volume of water at the desired dilution, then pour it out like a conventional liquid developer. Works great. Just trying to be helpful.
I've used Bellini errrr, d96 I think it was for cinestill films
That sounds like what I might be looking for! I love Xtol but would like the convenience of Rodinal or Ilfotec. What is the shelf life of the concentrate once you open it?
I've got a fresh unopened bottle to hand. There is no information about shelf life on the labelling, and I can't find a data sheet online. As with most developers you can probably expect it to last several months once opened. I think this will be my fourth bottle and I've not had one go bad. I develop about one 120 film per week and, frankly, the 500ml bottles don't last long enough at that rate to go off, but it's not expensive stuff.
Funny, I do ID-11 at 1:3 dilution as the acutance is far better. Agree that the sky can appear a bit grainy, so it is judgement when I go 1:1 or 1:3. Funny, the same is true for Rodinal, where a 1:25 is considered less sharp and less grain.
Very good test
Thanks Gianni!
The xtol instructions also have a time extension method for using stock solution which gives you 75 rolls per kit (5l kit).
0-5 rolls normal development time
6-10 rolls normal development time + 15% extra time
11-15 rolls normal development time + 30% extra time
this gives you 15 rolls per 1 litre stock, 5 x 15 = 75 rolls per kit :)
Is that replenishment?
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss nope in my mind it's easier than replenishment. Because this method you just keep using your 5 x 1 litre stock bottles. 15 rolls on each one, just adding to the development time at the intervals.
Thanks! For me the way you formulized it, helps me understand better. If that is within the shelf life, it should eliminate any worries of an exhausted stock and quality issues.
I think that on my PC screen XTOL 1+0 give a higher micro contrast in the face of the punpkin than XTOL 1+3 does . Peter .
Hello from Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Roger, thank you for this video, very interesting, because I’m llokking for informations about xtol. BUT, where can I get your mug standing in the vlog on the left? Do you have one left?
Thanks. I'll let you know when I have more in
The point that I was trying to make on your previuos videos comments about dilute xtol was that it is used mainly for contrast control not grain, higher dilution will reduce contrast because it keeps the highlight density from getting too far ahead of shadow density especially on pushed film. I use it because I prefer rollei retro & superpan films but they have a steep response curve wich the dilute Xtol helps to soften a bit and bring out a little more midtones, 1:5 is what I use for kodak tech pan and it's amazing to see the detail and tonality that is capable on 35mm with such a film.
Either way, Xtol dilute will save some $$ and really make 5L last a long time.
Keep up the good work!!
I didn't see a great change in contrast except the highlights slightly higher on 1+3. Not sure if that was dev time at 18 mins too short? So higher dilution on a steep curve film would give less contrast? I'll have to try that and see. Thanks Kelvin.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss you were shooting a very flat scene with mostly mid tones, slight highlights on the pumkins head and slight shadows in the fire pit, to see the true effect try a mid day scene with harsh sunlight and deep shadows, a scene that you really have to think about what your doing.
Also, the concern with "grain" is one of magnification factor and film sensitivity, not so much the developer, each film will show grain at a certain amount of enlargement ie 3x, 5x, or 10x magnification. The real cause of grain is your choice of film speed, film format and print size. 35mm FP4 neg printed at 5x7 is tack sharp and grainless, but at 12x16 your in the 13x-15x magnification area, that'd be 24"x24" print from a 6x6 neg.
Good job
"I'm not really a Scientist" you said BUT the care with which you do your tests is excellent - as a Former Examiner I'll give you a City and Guilds DISTINCTION ! ( Certificate in the Post --- ) Ha Ha !
Thanks Pete 😁
you are the legend!
Great work!
I have seen the video on the phone, so no much details I can appreciate. But on negative view looks the 1+3 show less contrast, a little more details in shadows. Am I right?
It appeared on 1+3 the highlights were more blown. I'm not sure if that was down to development time being 18 minutes or if more dilution gives less contrast. More tests needed Arturo.
Good to see things confirmed :). But the things with Xtol is size: I tend to shoot for a certain developer. A batch of Xtol is usually too much and I hate discarding it. Recently though I saw "liquid xtol" (Bellini) advertised. It's not the same formula but they 'nicknamed' it xtol anyway - haven't tried it yet though.
And then I saw Dud Fiver's reply below... Guess I should try it then ;).
Trouble is whats the point of diluting the developer if the stock solution shelf life is limited,for many better to use stock than ending up throwing it down the drain. All down to how much you shoot of course. Interesting video I wonder what D76 or ID11 results would be like at those dilutions. Great video Roger .
I guess if you don't shoot much. it'll go bad after 6 months I read. I do five litres easily over a few weeks. Must look into replenishing. Not tried that yet. Cheers Harry
XTOL Replenishment. It's been a large number of years since I processed my own B&W - *still* waiting until we're in a larger space until I "head back in" - but XTOL is my favorite and the local lab I use I do so because they offer it. That said, both them (large volume) and two of my most trusted shooting mates whose work I adore (small volume) also use XTOL but have used in on a replenishment system for quite a number of years. Ridiculously economical this way, achieves a working solution that gives tonality and sharpness somewhere in the neighborhood between stock and 1:1, and you can go on for months or years this way. Have a look into replenishment for this stuff. No other way to go in my personal opinion (of the multitudes).
I've heard a lot of good things of replenishing but I need to learn the technique for which I struggle to find info on...
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss There are a number of discussions on it specifically over at Photrio.com. Google photrio xtol replenishment - heaps of info in those threads.
Absolute Boss of a breakdown here on this XTOL. Was just about to mix some up. Is XTOL a one shot developer?
Have a read of the comments on this video. Lots of good info on replenishing. Cheers.
I was reading in a Photography book I bought and it mentions using Fixer Remover along with the water wash. Is it not neccessary anymore ? I never see in mentions in videos about making prints.
I use wash aid in my wash to help. Never had a problem with any of my prints that I've washed thoroughly
Roger, how you know where to cut the film? Loved the Azriel interview :)
Cheers Andrew. Well it's easy as they are all the same image. So no matter where I cut. I just cut the whole roll into 4 'as Good as I could feeel' equel strips. Glad you liked the podcast.
How I test film vs. developers, it’s always nice and convenient to have three tanks to work with. Since I do my developing and enlarging in my bathroom, I bought some thick material at a sewing store and a piece of rounded wood - normally used for hanging clothes on; in your closet. I had a seamstress sew a loose loop at one end of the reenforced material to easily thread the pole through. Then I screwed two curtain hangers on each side of the door; which prevented any light from getting into the bathroom, once the cloth was installed, I use a portable fan on my bathroom sink counter to keep temps pleasant. Great for winter and spring, but summer might be a different story. Back to the film, I’m in total darkness now in my bathroom, allowing me to pry off the 35mm film canister top off with a bottle cap opener, cutting off the leader of the film and manipulate the film into three (or two) equal pieces. Cut the film at each end and then spool the individual film strips onto the film spools and replace the tank tops according. You’re now set for development! As for the film, just find a spot with highlights and good shadow areas, and just shot the WHOLE roll on that specific subject.
On the topic of developers, and saving money.. Is it possible to reuse, say the 1+3 Xtol developer for another roll of film? If yes, how should we compensate the development time of the film? :-) Thanks for a great channel i love it
You can replenish xtol although I never have. Have a look at the xtol data sheet from Kodak. See what it says about replenish
Have just developed fp4 in xtol 1-2 dilution, but by mistake (old age!) instead of the 11.5 minutes advised by massive dev chart, I used 14.75 minutes which is for 1-3 dilution. Disaster? No. These are the best negatives I have ever done, they are bittingly sharp with lovely contrast & minimal grain. Have you done any experiments with alternative dev times ? . I would love to see a video of that. By the way I used a seconic 308 meter which matches up with my DSLR & used accurate thermometer with 10sec agitation every minute.
FP4 is a solid film. You may have found the sweet spot for that film and your development process and the camera and lens you used. If it works stick with it Leslie. Thanks for the experimental idea.
Xtol is great developer, although you need to use the 5 liters of stock fast before it is exhausted in the air.
For me, I am not a heavy user, it would take me half a year or even longer to consume one liter of DDX stock which I have to dilute it into 1 part in 4 (i.e. 5L of diluted solution in total)...
I will still stick to DDX to keep things fresh.
Besides, I scratched my head a bit and had no I deal how to prepare 5L of stock at once...How do people do that?
I have a 5ltr metal bowl and then I pour the mixed Dev into 1ltr containers and store.
I've wanted to try 1+3 but have always been wary of XTOL falling off without notice. Instead I use XTOL Replenishment, mostly for economy and laziness but I also like the results with most (not all) films.
I've never replenished. Any tips Tim?
Didn't see this comment. I just wrote the same. very much agreed but for far more than laziness. Have a look over at this thread on Photrio - it's discussed ad nauseum. www.photrio.com/forum/threads/using-and-replenishing-xtol.144796/
Put a clip of your film in the developer, if it starts changing color, you're good to go. If the emulsion side doesn't change color to something darker, then yeah, your developer is shot.
I've never used xtol simply because it would go bad before I could use it all up, just isn't economical (I use Tmax RS 1:9 or HC110 from syrup). One thing you didn't mention was how much did you adjust your developing time as you diluted the developer? I wonder if anyone has just mixed enough of the xtol powder to develop your film with and put the powder back in a refrigerator.
Times are in the description Steve I forgot to place them in the vid. I've often wondered of mixing just enough powder for use also. Although I do go through a lot
I've read that you can delay the expiry by halving the water in the solution thereby concentrating Xtol twice. But you will need to adjust your dilutions respectively.
From my experienced, XTOL seems to work best when you replenish it and it gets to a "seasoned" state.
I've yet to try..
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss It's worth it if you develop a lot of rolls and you're going to commit to XTOL as a primary developer, but it's a difficult thing just to try out casually due to the combination XTOL's rather short shelf life and the sheer number of rolls you'd have to put through to get it to the desired state.
If I remember correctly, it took like 25-30 rolls of development and replenishment to get the developer to a stable and consistent "seasoned" state. This can actually be shortened some if you happen to know someone who either have seasoned stock or XTOL that's just gone bad.
great video, buddy...xtol is supposed to have the best sharpness with 1:1 dilution (according to sheet list).
That's what I usually mix. Going to shoot some more tests at 1+3 see how we get on. Thanks Lukas.
Contrast varies by dilution
I’ve never used Xtal, I think because I don’t shoot enough film to use that huge bag of developer, before it most likely would exhausted on me and screwed-up my negatives. Can’t under stand why they don’t make quart/liter size bags. I think in the long run, they’d make better sales by (small-sized) volume. But that’s me thinking. As far as your example of stock to the 1:2 dilution, I think with a high contrast day, the 1:2 dilution seems that the highlights would blow-out; especially on bright skin tones; showing no texture of the highlighted skin. Guess you’re going to show some pics while shooting on a bright sunny day. From the examples that I’ve seen using Tmax 400, highlights seem to be a problem. Seeking comments with different films using Xtal stock and its various dilutions, although I use Tri-x 400.
You could possibly break the bag and seal it again. Just have to work out the ratio for one ltr.
Xtol was originally intended for commercial use, i.e. photo labs. Hence, the large amount of working chemistry used.
hello from Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Hey Darko!
facebook.com/groups/1300889276630741/ LIGHT STALKERS PHOTOGRAPHY GROUP REPOSTS your LINKS we LOVE your Videos .......we have a number of FILM SHOOTERS and please continue your awesome Channel ...be well LLAP Live Long and Photograph /Prosper
I started LIGHT STALKERS PHOTOGRAPHY GROUP About 3 years ago
Xtol is by far the most versatile developer on this planet. The amount of detail you get in the highlights on t-grain films is outstanding. Giving them quite a classic-emulsion look but without the grain. Xtol 1+1 on tmax 100 is unbeatable. And it’s the only developer that gives me pleasing results with HP5 on 135. With Perceptol and other fine-grain developers you just don’t get the sharpness. And pushing it one stop is not an option while HP5 @800 on Xtol gives a smooth and pleasing grain. If you consider using just one developer it has to be Xtol
It's my trusted developer. I have a replenished stock also that is working well for me. Cheers.
What paper do you use, thanks.
Kentmere VC Select Lustre 9.5x12 inch :)
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Thank you, I will try that.
is Xtol a "one shot" developer?
Yeah dump it after dev. Unless you choose to replenish a stock solution.
man, you should really get a flatbed film scanner already :) epson v550 or 600 would rock your world. and for the photo in here it looks like you shot it out of focus? please revisit this with a sharp image and scene with more dynamic! totally interesting stuff.
Agreed. I think my first print at stock was slightly off. My enlarger sometimes drifts! Already I can see a sharper grain at 1+3. I quite liked the look. Much more playing needed but we got a start. Cheers.
Okay I have a problem that has me vexed two weeks ago i got some new ilford multigrade 8x10 papers, as the stuff i had was very old. I also bought some Ilford multigrade developer. I mixed 1+9 (50 ml to 450ml water) and made a test strip 25 seconds 5 second intervals. i dropped it in the developer and the hole thing turned black in about 15 seconds. Saying to myself, thats not optimal, i remixed the developer and tried again. same result. I was sure i had not exposed the paper and I use a Kodak OC safe light. Maybe the paper was bad (amazon supplied it) so I ordered some Kentmere paper from B and H. carefully mixed the chemicals, being very very careful of the light contamination and turned on the enlarger, put it in the developer and..... same result. all black test strip in 10 to 15 seconds, let alone the 60 recommended seconds. temp of chemicals is 68 degrees.
What the hill is going on? anyone have a suggestion,? I am very new to developing and printing. so any suggestions are welcome.
That's a bummer. So somehow you're exposing too much light onto your paper. Check your enlarger aperture. Make sure it's a few stops from its widest when you start making your tests. Also the negative. Is it thin? If it's a thin neg light is gonna blast through to the paper and 5 seconds would be far too much. I'd start with stopping down your lens.
My enlarger has a range of 2.8 to 16 and i had it set to f8, I will try at f16 and shorten the exposure time. I will try again this after noon, after the wife colors her hair.
@@imjusttoodissgusted5620 what's the neg like?? Is it thin??
well the film is .005 thick= .127mm if thats what you mean (i am a machinist) . the picture is of a 1930's twin engine bomber at the McChord AFB museum. the plane is mostly silver metalic in color.
@@imjusttoodissgusted5620 ahh sorry mate. Thin. I mean "see through". Under exposed. Is there any density in it. Put it on a newspaper. If you can read the print easily across the whole negative it's thin. Underexposed. And tricky to make a print.
What size paper is that?
I think it was 12x9.5 inch
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss tah mate 👌