A NEW film developer for me? 510 PYRO. WOW!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
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ABOUT THIS VIDEO
Much thanks to James Lane of Zone Imaging Lab for sending the 510 PYRO.
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Thanks to Intrepid Cameras for sending the Enlarger.
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Martin Henson TH-cam Channel
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Doing Film Things TH-cam Channel (Ribsy)
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EQUIPMENT USED
CAMERA - Mamiya RZ / Olympus OM20
FILM - ARISTA EDU 200 (FOMA 200) & Ilford FP4
DEVELOPER - Errm.... 510 PYRO
STOP & FIX - Fotospeed
ENLARGER - DURST M605
PAPER - Ilford MG Deluxe
DEVELOPER - Ilford MG
STOP & FIX - FOTOSPEED
PRODUCTION GEAR
CANON 6D, GOPRO 7 BLACK, TASCAM DR10L MIC, SENHEISSER SHOTGUN MIC,
NEEWER LED PANELS, GVM COLOUR PANELS,
Editing - FCP, PHOTOSHOP, LIGHTROOM
ABOUT MY VIDEOS
If my videos inspire, create ideas and help others in film photography and darkroom work then it's worth making them.
I always welcome comments that are useful towards the video subject that will help others understand the process within.
Keep shooting and thanks for watching.
MUSIC CREDITING
TH-cam Studio Music
Great video Roger! Very glad you liked the developer and the results! Each small bottle will develop 30+ 35mm rolls!
Yeah, 510 Pyro gives great prints and scans as well as suitable for alternative printing processes using UV light!
One more thing, the 510 Pyro proportional staining also helps with the highlights in prints through acting like a yellow (low contrast) filter just for the highlights and affecting the midtones a tad and leaves the shadows alone so when you use a filter (let's say grade 3.5), you get an automatic split grade effect
James thank you for sending the Roger the Pyro..quick question I have been scanning my old school negs from 30 years ago HP5 / FP4 35mm you mentioned that it holds in highlights pretty well and gives finer detail when scanned ..what film would you recommend
@@largophoto hi Nicholas, 510 Pyro is best suited for slow and medium convention grain films and T grain films but will develop Tri X and HP5+ just fine
It is not suitable for faster speed films though
@@jameslane3846 ..old dog new tricks ..I will have a poke around stateside ..using generic D76..:(
@@largophoto D76 is a good old fashioned all rounder :) I use it too, depends what look I am going for and it's my default developer for my film processing lab which is my main job
Toxic goodness 🖤
Watching this while developing my first roll in pyro. First roll is looking pretty cool - thanks for the dev! 🤟🏽
Actually HC-110 is concentrate but it is not thick like that. I have used it to stand develope with good results. 1+120 for 1 hour 1 minute inversion at the beginning and let it sit for the rest of the time. The reasoning of no more inversions is the developer will exhaust its self on the highlights but continue to develope the shadows, thus preserving the highlights.
HC110 gives very very different results though. Pyro developers are in their own category as they can do things other developers cannot
I recommend scanning your negatives with the emulsion side up. The increased detail is quite noticeable.
Is it?? I've never tried. Thanks Ian.
510 Pyro is the DB's!!
Nothing to do with this vlog but thank you for putting me on to Peter Elgar, I've laughed and cried my way through his whole back-catalogue in the last couple of weeks. He's got to be the most loved photographer on You Tube. Long may he continue.
Ha ha he's a great guy. True Legend.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss YES -- but not feeling so 'Active ' now after another HOSPITAL day -- PS -- Try NOT to have a 'Sigmoidoscopy' if you can avoid it --------
I've never used any pyro developer, but I have used original Caffenol (no ascorbate) which also produces stain. The general effect is that the imagewise stain, being brownish, tends to block blue light, which reduces contrast in the highlights -- which the printer usually compensates by increasing overall contrast, so the effect is more contrast in shadows and mid-tones, and slightly less in highlights. When printing on graded paper, the stain simply acts as extra density, raising the overall contrast, and because it also blocks UV, staining developers can produce negatives that print as low to mid contrast with multigrade paper, but have the contrast in UV for the same negative to make good alt-process prints (cyanotype, Van Dyke Brown, salted paper, platinum/palladium, etc.) -- common non-staining developers like Xtol, Rodinal, or ID-11 usually require different development levels for enlarging vs. alt-process printing.
There are certain kinds of scenes that are greatly enhanced by staining developers like Caffenol (without ascorbate) or pyro -- because the stain also tends to partially obscure grain. It can make fog look much more "fluid" instead of the grainy appearance it often has in non-staining developers. Other examples of very subtle gradations over large areas (sky going from horizon to high angles above the horizon, for instance) are similar enhanced by this effect.
Might be interesting to note that Kodak's very first developer, D-1, was a pyrogallol formula -- what's now called ABC Pyro (because it has three solutions -- A, B, and C -- that are combined immediately before use).
Ahh yes I've made coffee developer before and it stained the negs. Interesting read. I'll keep this in mind with my next dev and print with the pyro. Thanks for your valued input. Always appreciated.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Important to note that (in my experience) Caffenol that includes vitamin C does not stain, or at least gives much less stain than original Caffenol (just coffee and washing soda). However, the overall stain isn't the goal -- it's just another form of fog -- and it's quite hard to actually see imagewise stain by eye. One way to do so is to scan the negative in RGB, separate the color channels, and look at the difference between the red or green and the blue. If you're getting imagewise stain (as happens with 510 Pyro and non-C Caffenol) you should see a significant difference in contrast between the blue and the other color channels.
I've also seen an effect that looks a bit like two-color Technicolor by scanning Caffenol negatives in color -- the end result after automatic inversion (as if it were C-41 film) was a surprisingly normal-looking color image (which I presumed at the time was a coincidence due to scene colors). I don't know if 510 Pyro or other pyro developers would give this effect (I believe it was an interaction of overall stain acting as the orange mask and imagewise stain producing the "color" image via differences between blue channel and red/green channels).
I can see it on my scans as I scan in RAW not black and white. They look sepia! (With auto white balance).
great post
The 510-Pyro website recommends using a non acid fixerso as not to not impact the dying process. What fixer did you use? Thanks for the good info on this developer.
Thats right. I used Fotospeed FX30 for this. An alkaline developer.
Just got some 510 Pyro from James Lane at the photography show, he mentioned you there. Looking forward to trying it out
How are you finding it?
@@jameslane3846 not tried it yet, however will probably give it a try sooner rather than later as my HC110 needs replacing now (hole in the bottle)
@@jonathanhotopf1823 oh dear! How did that happen? There are now times on the Massive Dev Chart app, owner is my neighbour now! I will be adding more dev times over time
@@jameslane3846 squeezed the air out of the bottle too much! Looking forward to trying it out at 1:500 for the compensating effect
@@jonathanhotopf1823 no need to squeeze the bottle to rid of oxygen for 510 Pyro so don't worry about that regarding this dev! Only thing that ruins the shelf life and oxidises the dev is water!
Yeah, some people like the 1:500 feature 😂 so that's why I am releasing another dev in summer for 1:500 dilution and a fixed time of 12 minutes for most films
Pyro developer is amazing. 510 is great for stand development!
I've started using 510 pyro few weeks ago and I wonder if you also got such a long exposure times when printing in the darkroom? Can't shake the feeling that the stain is testing my patience 😂
Wahaha, what a thing! "Poncing a Pink Poodle Past a Pub" - defo a bucket list item, if only to see people's faces! Excellent video mate!
Thank you for this! I buy, i test it, yesterday (night ;-) )! IT IS MY NEW DEVELOPER! NO more search!💥👍
Great 👍
Wonderful job! Can you show us how you track your negatives? Do you do it on the computer or do you keep a printed file?
I'll try and show something. Thanks Patrick
YES !! Keep working until ya like it or it is a bag of Poo .... Exactly !
i made darkroom each evening and i learn a lot with you :-)
Hope you're having fun :)
I've used pyro on one roll of film so far, but not taken the pictures into the darkroom yet. The scans looked good, even if I wasn't keen on the pictures!!
Chatted to the pyro guys at the photo show last week, interesting setup, looks good stuff.
my usual developer is Rodinal or D-23 ... just ordered some 510 pyro ... nice look and super fine grain which I like ... thanks !!!!
Well that settles it, I have to get my hands on some 510 Pyro to try out. I mainly run with Pyrocat-HD, so trying out another Pyro developer will be fun!
Check out zone imaging lab. James Lane.
I'll be bringing it to America soonish I hope 🤞
I used for years the Pyro ABC by Weston in large format photography. I tried the same formula in the 120 format.. but it is very staining developer and it does larger grain, so It is perfect for contact printing, but on the enlarger and modern paper it is difficult to print this negatives. It is necessary to expose +1 stop. I prefer the D76 in stock solution. It is a wonderful multipurpose developer. I think better than the Rodinal.
I've been using pyro for 25 years and have never experienced what you describe here. I use it for everything from my 35mm to 14x17 view camera. I have used PMK pyro and Pyrocat HD with minimal agitation technique with great results. No problem enlarging to 16x20.
it is only my opinion and my personal taste.
@@flavioserci6046 Agree. Ask 10 photographers and get 12 different opinions. I brought the point up just to let those who haven't tried pyro that it can be done with good results. Everyones will have different thoughts and results. All that matters is that you are happy with what you are getting.
@@flavioserci6046 ABC pyro produces a long toe before the curve rises. It is also highly staining. More modern Pyro developers are more forgiving in the film speed dept. Your observations are correct.
06:06 easter egg!!
mhhh the 510 i have the classic syrup. I wonder what the mixing guy did...........
So is mine. It is like an espresso syrup. I wonder if in the new formula the TEA ( the syrupy suspension agent ) has been replaced with glycol and some sort of alkaline activator has been added to compensate for the absence of TEA, as the one in the video is very light yellow in colour?
@@lensman5762 it's high quality TEA in that batch and it was made recently so hasn't darkened from age yet
I'm good friends with Jay and 510 Pyro's formula has not changed for many years
pyro based developer are great but i more like rodinal i don't like doing stand dev too much and rodinal for me is the best developer for normal developing specially for my favorite films, Tri-x and double-x. and yes i like to talk to my scanner too since I don't have enlarger
What paper were you using? FB or RC? And which do you think is better? 😊
I use Resin (RC). Fibre paper is a lot more expensive. However, I would use Fibre if I was posting up for a gallery of sorts. (Probably).
Wow that intro!
nothing related but as ou spoke about archives, do you make a contact sheet for every roll you shoot ?
No I don't. Sometimes if it's a special shoot (special for me) other than that I usually scan and save so I can see what looks good for print.
Can i use Adofix plus with pyro510? Do i need an alkaline fixer?
If you want to keep the stain the fixer has to be Alkaline and no stop bath just water.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss i just read the pyro manual. What a great documentation first of all. From what i found, Adofix should habe a ph around 5.5, so by going 1+4 i guess it is somewehere around 6-6.5 ph. The alkaline fixer eco fix is just slightly base. I guess for the most part adofix is fine, although not perfect. I might go for 1+9 eventually, to retain the stain
510 is great stuff.
Good call burning the bottom
Again another great video. How do you get a copy of that spreadsheet ? ... rb
Ask James Lane, Zone Imaging
Gosh, you put SO much work into your videos. I'm always impressed!
Thanks. 3 days that one.
If you enjoy what you're doing you will never work another day in your life.
Love this ..even the dogs looked bored..I would have had you on my photo team as a photog...mind you 30 years ago
so for 20 minutes, you just agitate first minute then 2x more after that
No, once more. (Once every 10 mins) so on your 10 minute mark one inversion. If you was doing 30 minutes you'd invert twice. Once at 20 and one more at 10
Would this developer work well with the original Fujifilm Across 100? Cheers.
I'm sure. If in doubt ask James Lane at Zone Imaging
Off topic :I remember an episode of Murder She Wrote where a journalist called Cabot Cove "a place where even cockroaches die of boredom"... It sums up the way you look in this video ;-)
On topic : lovely yet again.
I just wanted to take pictures. Lol
Love your channel Roger. You explain things in a way anyone can understand, I'm learning so much from your content. Keep it up. Will be purchasing some Pyro soon.
Cheers Laurie. I've started to like the results from 510 Pyro.
What does staining do to the film?
James Lane says "the staining makes for a natural variable split grade effect and also protects the negative from easily scratching and stops highlights from being over developed."
PYRO is a big boy deveolper :P
Started to use pyrogallic acid as a dev for making holograms in the 1990s then moved on to processing HP5. The stain on the images did cause some problems with printing on Multigrade as it would pull the grades down so G3 was more like a G1.5. Graham Saxby did a book on Holography with a good formula for pyro dev. Did have to pre soak films in water before the dev as it was a very short dev time and the dev was dead after minutes. Still miss my darkroom.
Thanks. I prewashed these films also. I havnt run tests on the filters and MG papers yet apart from this first time. More fun to come with this developer...
Hi Boss! What the baby do you use for scanning your films, please?
It's a Canon 6d
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Thank you very much, Boss! I mean the equipment holes the films.
The reason for that left bottom area (and the tree trunks) in the second print being so dark, is your film development method. One inversion per 10min (after the initial shake) is far to little. The developer fatigues very fast in the underexposed parts of the negative, so a flush of fresh developer will be needed to get tonality there. I’d go for one inversion per 2min. There’s no risk of burning out the highlights by adding a few shakes, as pyro controls these really well. Fun to see you using pyro. I did it for my medium format work in the good ol’ days.
I'd have thought more frequent inversions would hit even harder in the shadow areas.
Heard you mention that HC-110 is very gloopy. That used to be true but Kodak has a new formula which gives the same results but is far less viscous. If the gloop was what was putting you off of the developer then I think you should check it out now!
Yes, the old 1L US bottles I used to use in the 80s were as thick as you could imagine. There was a Euro version of it which was much more runny. I have not used the new formula as yet, but some EU manufactured equivalents are thick but no where near as syrupy as the old HC 110.
I know I’m very late to the game but I just got myself some 510 from James! I’m excited to use it but I don’t have any alkaline fixers here. So I’ll have to wait :( bummer
Damn! Acid based fixers (rapid) will remove the stain. I use Fotospeed FX30.
Hi, we now sell Eco Zonefix, an odourless alkaline rapid fixer
I've just stumbled upon your channel as I was researching 510 Pyro - since my stock of PMK is rather low, I thought I'd give this a try. One thing though - is that nice and detailed development chart available anywhere? I have been looking all over, but haven't managed to come across it.
Contact Zone Imaging, James will supply you with a detailed chart of times
Hi, the technical data sheet is available from our website footer and also on a QR code on an info card that comes with orders from October onwards either direct or from retailers
After 20 years I've started again developing B&W film again, I use Agfa APX 200 and 400 ISO, same as 20 years ago. I was always happy with the results but now I develop the same film In Adox Adonal (Rodinal) 20° 8 minutes 100 ISO, and 10 minutes 400 ISO and the results make me cry. The grain is terrible and there is no sharpness at all. My camera is a Contax MA 137 with Planar 50mm. I'm so angry I already waisted these film and have this terrible results. I scan my negatives with Epson V 500
That's a shame. Yes Rodinal does give a harsh look. I like it for street and anything I want looking gritty. I hardly ever use it for any of my scapes. But it's a developer I always have on the shelf.
Developing with Rodinal causes the images to look grainy. If you want a smooth look, try XTOL. If you want even more sharpness and less grain, shoot medium format. The image quality of 35mm film is pretty poor if you compare it to modern digial cameras. However medium and especially large format film can still record more detail (depending upon the speed of the film) than most current digital cameras.
The problem is always uneven staining of one or two frames with this developer.
really? Never had that....
@@klofisch Well, it was PMk Pyro. I followed the directions for pre-wetting and correct agitation, but two frames were unusable. Luckily, they weren't worthwhile shots. So, if I'm feeling adventurous again, maybe I'll try 550 or Pyrocat.
Never had uneven staining with 510 Pyro, it's a more modern pyro developer! I always make it to the highest quality too
I have used 510 Pyro for over 12 years and have never had uneven staining. I do pre soak my film for over two minutes without fail.
@@lensman5762 Hmm...thanks. Unless the solutions degenerated in the bottles though I didn't have them that long. It was mostly useful for night photography, I found.
Been really enjoying your vids, very informative and nicely put together, well done sir!
Much appreciated!
I've rewatched this now. I know from subsequent videos that you are using 510 pyro more and more. Given the leakage from developing tanks and the inversion do you find that you get much stainage from this staining developer?? Since I don't have a darkroom but only a kitchen, I certainly don't want sinks stained or even heavy stains in trays, etc.
It wipes off easily I noticed Erich. Unless it's on your clothes!
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Thanks for that info!!!!
I've tried it and it was disappointing, when used with Tri-X. There is evidence of grain clumping, making the end result look inferior to Rodinal. Ilford DD-X is my favourite developer.
Pyro type developer increases sharpness，aside with the GRAIN😝
Interesting you say that Ian, 510 Pyro is one of the finest grained developers that exists, reduces grain clumping of how it functions and caught the attention of Ilford themselves.
May I enquire how you used it? Did you make it yourself or purchase from one of my resellers in the UK?
Great video as always
Is it safe to use photo flo with 510pyro or will it wash off the stain?
I've used Fotospeed Rinse aid and also washing up liquid! No issues. Ask Zone Imagine see what they say.
Yes, you can :)
how long does 1:100 dilution last? I mixed a batch up a few weeks ago and it is brown now.
I use it straight from the bottle Timothy. Yes it goes brown after a while but not sure how long it lasts once diluted. I'll see if James Lane has an answer
Hi, you have to use it immediately after dilution! As stated on the tech data sheet, the working solution should be used within 2 hours of diluting
Only the concentrate has years shelf life
Great video and amazing result , thank you mate for your work , I am starting an instagram account to post my work I ll send the name to you soon , so I can get your opinion if you don’t mind .
Sure!
Shoot Film Like a Boss Hi! Here is my Instagram account it’s new so not many post but I ll keep updating and post older work to : filminthebrain. Cheers
My supplier doesn't stock Pyro 510 but only Pyro 48 - anyone know how they differ?
Ask James Lane. Zone imaging lab. He will know for sure.
fomapan 200 is a really nice film - using it lots...
Do you expose it at box speed? I've found that Fomapan 400 needs to be overexposed 1 or 2 stops to get good negatives. I have some Fomapan 200 I haven't tried yet so I don't know if I need to overexposed that too?
@@Murgoh Fomapan 200 gives best results @100 in 510 Pyro :)
@@jameslane3846 ok, thanks. I'm thinking of trying Pyrocat as I've already ordered some, it should be similar right?
@@Murgoh similarish as you will still get some staining and tanning but 510 Pyro is finer grained, has a vastly longer shelf life and in my opinion simpler to use as it's one concentrated stock solution
I just metered for 100 iso instead of 200. I did find some frames had tiny black flecks (lines) which I've seen before on cheaper films. Have you ever seen that?
Could be possibile to have that developing sheet file you use at the beginning? :)
Contact James Lane Zone Imaging Lab. He can provide you with the latest sheet Davide.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss thank you!
Great pictures
omy send me some always wanted to use this dev :D haha jk jk don't actually send me some I will keep using my instant coffee and Strongbow :P
Cool intro!
I forgot to add, you really ought to use an alkaline fixer such as TF4 ( Ammonium Thiosulfate ) to fix the negs that have been developed in Pyro. Acid fixers such as Ilford's rapid fixer ( @ normal 1+4 dilution ) or Hypam will wash the stain off the negs. An alkaline fixer also washes out quicker, one the reasons that we used to use it for fixing the old heavy fiber based papers. Fotospeed used to have one in their line up , but that seems to have disappeared. The only one that I can find right now is made by Moersch which also seems to be permanently out of stock. If you can't find a proper Alkaline fixer, then Ilford's rapid fixer diluted to 1+9 is very close to PH neutral and you can use that to fix the negs.
If anyone is interested, I write down the 510 base formula here, this is just for information BTW.
510 Pyro,
TEA ( Triethanolamine ) 75 ml
Ascorbic Acid 5 g
Pyrogallol ( HIGHLY TOXIC )10 g
Phenidone 0.375g
TEA to make 100 ml of developer.
Alkaline Fixer formula ( this is not a rapid fixer formula, so much longer fixing times are required ),
Distilled Water 750 ml
Sodium Thiosulphate 60g
Sodium Carbonate 5g
Distilled Water to make 1000 ml of fixer,
In case of the 510 Pyro, it is more economical and safer to purchase a ready made solution. Pyrogallol is highly toxic and quite expensive.
Yup, that's why I make and sell 510 Pyro in the UK and Rudiger Hartung for Germany so others don't have to handle pyrogallol ;) I have a deal with Moersch's own raw chem suppliers to buy pyrogallol cheaply, we go back a while
Also TF4 is good but I know Roger uses Fotospeed FX30 which is near pH neutral so good enough. TF4 can be bought now in the UK via Still Photographic, they're in the UK Film Photography and Darkroom FB group
@@jameslane3846 That is awesome James. It is great that you have provided another ( perhaps the only ) source for this amazing developer. I have just about exhausted my last bottle of 510 Pyro. I found yours just before Roger's latest video flashed on my laptop, and I shall be placing an order with you. May I ask why your mix is quite light compared to my old syrup. Have you substituted TEA with something else? Thanks for info regarding TF30.
@@lensman5762 great to hear! The reason why mine is light coloured is because it's been freshly mixed, it will darken with age like yours must have done
@@jameslane3846 TBH, mine is over 10 years old and is still quite consistent. It is like a very thick syrupy espresso. I used a lot of the old US bottle, HC 110 in the late 80s~late 90s and that was thick and syrupy , buy nothing compared to 510.
@@lensman5762 yes, that sounds right! An oral syringe makes it very easy to extract
Why don't, you develop
Color film.
I've never got into it. Still far much in B&W to explore.
Now you have come of age. Mazel tov.
Just one word: Xtol 1:1.
Okay, maybe a second word: TMY2
I've just developed and printed a roll Ilford PAN 50 iso. Too much density and contrast. Hard to print on modern papers. D76 is better in my opinion. 510 Image is more crispy but the richness in tonality is better with the D76. Perhaps it has advantages in economy but not in image quality on my 35mm images. I stay on D76.
I wonder why you say that, I have shot and printed Pan F of a backlit scene at grade 1.5 without needing to dodge or burn and had full detail from deepest shadows to the sky - 510 Pyro, like most Pyro developers, has on average 2.5 more stops of dynamic range on grade 2 VC papers and more grey tones compared to D76
Perhaps you might need to give it another go or you were agitating too much
Comments are good for the algorithm, so it's said. So here goes. "HC-One-Ten." That was the good stuff back in the seventies. Cheers!