Excellent video man, thanks! Especially the demo… you presented a perfect mix of genres making it very easy to define the characteristics of each speaker model. Happy Holidays!
Thank you for the amazing content. A month ago I was weighting whether to buy a set of used R3's (900eur), or some new R3 meta's (2200eur), and since I've found no way of AB testing them, I ultimately decided to go with the used R3's for 900e and I couldn't be happier. I pair them with a Wiim Ultra, an SVS SB1000PRO and a Fosi ZA3 for now (next one to upgrade). It just seemed to me that the Metas wouldn't be 1300eur better than the non-metas.
Fantastic, I got the R3 over the meta and just added the ultra. I'm very happy with the R3, sounds amazing and can't believe how adding ultra has improved the sound....been recently considering getting that exact same sub too...just not sure if it would be suited to my 5x7x3 room...
Hi, I also got the R3, does the SVS sub make a big difference for just audio as they have ok bass?. I've been thinking about buying a sub for some time but only use the system for music not movies. Thanks
@@jjacinto8 good point in choosing speakers. Is it really worth a 1000 difference. Definitely not. And after we listen a month later we won't remember it's sound is superior vs average as long as it good enough for our own ears is what matters.
@@CandidSeagull I'm using the R3 Meta's and like them and yes they do have good bass, but not great bass. I added a pair of subwoofers and after careful placement and crossover and gain adjustment they blend well. You don't hear the subs - until you turn them off and it's like wow. The subs in my room take the speakers to a whole new level.
@nesq4104 👍 the law of dimishing returns scales dramatically above 1000eur - we're able to get close to the latest and greatest and save a lot if we're happy settling for the previous generation of a product
Sorry that you got potentially screwed by a shop, hope it works out well when you take them back. I have the R3 Meta paired up with an Accuphase E211 and a Music Hall Ikura and music sounds absolutely amazing. I haven't stopped smiling every time I've played music for the past year. Amazing sound and what a soundstage!
Sorry to hear about your experience with Best Buy. I have bought a lot of equipment with them over the years and I’ve been happy enough to continue to buy from them. Their return policy is excellent in my experience. They are far from perfect. They are a large retailer so you are on your own for the most part. I can understand how they could be fooled by an unscrupulous customer. I don’t rely on their staff for high end equipment advice although for basic stuff the staff is helpful. Buyer beware. A combination of price and customer service is most important In my experience. If I buy and have a poor customer experience I don’t shop that dealer or company again. Rock on and Merry Christmas 🎄
I also have mostly good experiences with Best Buy but had to talk about what happened in this video so others will know what can happen when buying open box.
That sucks, hope you get a favorable resolution. I also bought a pair of open box R3 Meta from Best Buy. I've got to pull the speaker to check but I have the correct wave guide. Couldn't see the back of the driver looking through the port. I'm guessing the mid/treble unit has it's own chamber.
I bought a pair of open box R3 Meta from Best Buy in Gloss Black. To be honest I never even noticed any writing on the drivers waveguide. I sold them 3 months later. Great speakers but just not for me. I sure hope i didnt pass along a pair of fake R3 Meta's.
Really tempted to buy these speakers but have been a bit put off after watching a video showing how easy it is to dent and damage the aluminium bass drivers
I really wouldn't worry about that unless you have kids, and even if you do just have a serious conversation about how disappointed you would be and the consequences if they dent them.
Just to mention - rear plate consists crossover so if someone swapped that they would not have same crossovers. Weight the speakers - meta is actually lighter than non meta. Also measure them I think there might be slight difference in size. I think someone swapped only a driver and didn’t pay attention to writing on a shadow flare. So you might have a meta box with non meta driver which would explain why it sound wrong
The crossover is not actually on the terminal plate on the R3 or the R3 Meta. It is two separate boards, one attached to the bottom and one attached to the side of the cabinet. They definitely just swapped the terminal plate.
Same thing happened to me at Best buy. Bought the "R3 Meta" open box and noticed only Uni Q on the baffle. I went as far as removing the driver because I wasn't sure. Not meta. Returned with no problem, but the staff was really confused about the difference.
Have you ever pulled your speakers out around three feet from wall?A stands top plate shouldnt protrude past speaker edge so theres no chance of diffraction.But if you like image now you'll really be blown away if you get them in free space.Turn off center channel for full effect.
I had no prior experience with the KEFs until a few days ago when I went to the local BestBuy showroom and tested them out. I was very disappointed. It didn't matter which amp I paired them with, they all sounded muffled compared to everything else. Both Martin Logans and Bower and Wilkins they had in the room sounded more open and richer.
I think this is more a problem of comparison, the Martin Logans and Bowers & Wilkins both have lifted treble response which many people like (including me) but is not accurate, Kef is a much more neutral speaker so when you side by side compare it to the MLs and B&Ws they sound muffled even though they are not.
Point is that the meta material is only attached to the tweeter and not the midrange part. That difference will be really small since it is easy to dampen the higher frequencies without the meta material. That only differences are in the frequency response where the R3 is a bit brighter. That has nothing to do with the meta material. When EQed they sound the same. It is just a tuning of the frequency response difference rather than a difference because of the meta material.
Are you sure the black speakers are not R3 Metas? It could be just an older production version of the speaker that has been sitting in the Best Buy stock room of a long time. I would contact KEF to see if this might be the case. It is possible that you did get ripped off, but I would not be so quick to jump to that conclusion.
@ most talk in hours. Many people seem to think 100+ is a good number. I’m in no position to speculate. Just wondered if maybe any noticeable difference might be related to broken in VS new. Thanks for the review. I might try a pair of OG with a sub.
I work for best buy. If someone swapped the speakers out like that any decent manager would honor the return. We would at my store anyway. Ive got issues with best buy as a corperation and company don't get me started, but theyre usually good about stuff like that
I clearly hear the difference with The Metas. The mid-range is better. The original r3s sound hollow at times. Very noticeable with acoustic and electric guitar. Seems to me the crossover end speakers were upgraded a bit. I am listening in my room on Elac dbr62 Reference speakers. The differences are very obvious because reference speakers are so well-balanced. But then, I have perfect pitch also. Playing and tuning instruments for your entire life gives you a pretty good ear. Thanks for the video.
@cremersalex Something about 1 in 10,000 people have. You can hear a note in your mind and then play it on an instrument. You have frequencies of notes memorized in your mind. The skill is useful when tuning a stringed instrument. Or a piano. Yes I can tune a piano using one A 440 tuning fork. But I prefer my grand pianos to be tuned to 435 Hertz, because when you hit the larger strings on a piano hard, the weight and inertia of the strings moving back and forth tends to bend the pitch up a bit. You never want to go Sharp. It is okay to be a little flat... We are genetically programmed to be alarmed by sharp notes, as in something approaching you quickly....
@cremersalex Yes, how else would I know which cord to use in a composition? Major? Minor? Major 7th? Minor 7th? Augmented 7th? How about diminished? The change of One note in a cord can change the mood of a composition. Much fun indeed 😏.
I also have UBR62 (plus LS50M). How would you compare the Elac’s bass to the R3 meta? I’m looking for more explosive punch from kick drums & toms etc around 50 to 500hz Cheers ✌️
No, this is a comparison between R3 Meta and previous gen R3. Crossover, cabinet and woofer are the same but the mid and tweeter have been upgraded with the M.A.T.
The point would be did they use different quality components in the Meta crossover? Also, if the crossover is attached to the back of the binding post plate your regular R3’s may have the Meta crossover and sound different than original.
So got a couple of questions... Did you buy the R3s as an open box from Best Buy, or were they supposed to be new? (Assuming Open Box) Did you contact Best Buy? If so, what was their response? Very curious about what they have to say. I tend to avoid open boxed items but have bought demo units from Best Buy in the past. They should have a record of the previous owner and this should go to their fraud department for further investigation. Thx.
Best Buy, wal-mart and Fry's electronics are infamous for repackaging used products and trying to sell them as new. The OG R3's should have been sold as open box or something at least. Not to mention the receipt should have been explicit. In any case, the guy that did the swap basically committed shoplifting, fraud and should be prosecuted.
They were open box, the only thing best buy did wrong here is have employees that are not well trained enough to double check everything looks right when being returned.
Hi !! I just hope you didn't pay the full price for the R3 because it was an open-box product. For some unknown reasons, there are people who prefer the non-Meta version better ( LS 50 versus LS 50 Meta for example ). Since they didn't change anything in the cabinet constrction, crossover and drivers, exept for the Meta material technology, it is hard to understand why you should expect a much better sound. The quality of sound is always relative to the change in design, quality of component and cabinet rigidity and damping. It would be great if pixie dust was real, right? Wish you good luck on your audio journey !!!
Someone in the comments mentioned the crossover is mounted to the rear plate. If this is true, then the speakers are not even a true R3. Thanks for the effort but the test is meaningless. Hope you get things sorted and they catch the pos that pulled the scam.
That comment was wrong, the crossover is not mounted to the terminal plate, it is two large PCBs, one mounted to the bottom and one mounted to the side of the cabinet.
I listened to both versions at home in a small room in the near field and in my opinion the older version is more entertaining and direct, but the soundstage is smaller, as if squeezed between the speakers. The meta version is more open, the soundstage is wider, but the sound presentation is less direct, calmer, and after a while they seemed a bit boring to me. So I would prefer the directness and liveliness of the older version + the wider soundstage of the Meta version. In the older version, it is worth playing with bi-wiring. Change cables to better ones. The Treble is then more open, detailed and airy. In the Meta version I didn't hear any difference.
These are very serious first world problems. All of your hard work is now invalidated. The world will never be the same. I would definitely file suit against Best Buy.
Excellent video man, thanks! Especially the demo… you presented a perfect mix of genres making it very easy to define the characteristics of each speaker model. Happy Holidays!
Loved your excellent video of the two speakers Thank you!!
Thank you for the amazing content. A month ago I was weighting whether to buy a set of used R3's (900eur), or some new R3 meta's (2200eur), and since I've found no way of AB testing them, I ultimately decided to go with the used R3's for 900e and I couldn't be happier. I pair them with a Wiim Ultra, an SVS SB1000PRO and a Fosi ZA3 for now (next one to upgrade). It just seemed to me that the Metas wouldn't be 1300eur better than the non-metas.
Fantastic, I got the R3 over the meta and just added the ultra. I'm very happy with the R3, sounds amazing and can't believe how adding ultra has improved the sound....been recently considering getting that exact same sub too...just not sure if it would be suited to my 5x7x3 room...
Hi, I also got the R3, does the SVS sub make a big difference for just audio as they have ok bass?. I've been thinking about buying a sub for some time but only use the system for music not movies. Thanks
@@jjacinto8 good point in choosing speakers. Is it really worth a 1000 difference. Definitely not. And after we listen a month later we won't remember it's sound is superior vs average as long as it good enough for our own ears is what matters.
@@CandidSeagull I'm using the R3 Meta's and like them and yes they do have good bass, but not great bass. I added a pair of subwoofers and after careful placement and crossover and gain adjustment they blend well. You don't hear the subs - until you turn them off and it's like wow. The subs in my room take the speakers to a whole new level.
@nesq4104 👍 the law of dimishing returns scales dramatically above 1000eur - we're able to get close to the latest and greatest and save a lot if we're happy settling for the previous generation of a product
well done...thank you for taking the time and effort
Sorry that you got potentially screwed by a shop, hope it works out well when you take them back. I have the R3 Meta paired up with an Accuphase E211 and a Music Hall Ikura and music sounds absolutely amazing. I haven't stopped smiling every time I've played music for the past year. Amazing sound and what a soundstage!
Amazing comparison 🙌🏼
Bizarrely enough listening on my monitors and headphones rgw E3 sounds more detailed than the R3 META. Thanks for the comparison!
I think that is because of the extra mid-range. Sounds like it's covering up some of the triple detail.
I believe the original sounds better, the meta sounds sterile to me
@@MasterofPlay7I thought the Meta’s had more detail on the upper end
@@scorchwhammin not so, people don't want any back sound/vibration from the speakers, I believe is the wrong approach, those speakers sound dead
Great video thanks for keeping it real. Subbed.
Great review! Thanks for sharing.
I could detect some apparent differences in the first track and in the one before the last. The others sounded undistinguishable to me.
Sorry to hear about your experience with Best Buy. I have bought a lot of equipment with them over the years and I’ve been happy enough to continue to buy from them. Their return policy is excellent in my experience. They are far from perfect. They are a large retailer so you are on your own for the most part. I can understand how they could be fooled by an unscrupulous customer. I don’t rely on their staff for high end equipment advice although for basic stuff the staff is helpful. Buyer beware. A combination of price and customer service is most important In my experience. If I buy and have a poor customer experience I don’t shop that dealer or company again. Rock on and Merry Christmas 🎄
I also have mostly good experiences with Best Buy but had to talk about what happened in this video so others will know what can happen when buying open box.
@@AV-Obsessed i wonder now if I need to open boxes from Besbuy right at the register?
Hey man. New subscriber. Good job on the content.
Thanks for the video! Try to learn looking into the camera in the future videos 😊
That sucks, hope you get a favorable resolution. I also bought a pair of open box R3 Meta from Best Buy. I've got to pull the speaker to check but I have the correct wave guide. Couldn't see the back of the driver looking through the port. I'm guessing the mid/treble unit has it's own chamber.
The maze like structure on the back of the driver is how to tell.
I bought a pair of open box R3 Meta from Best Buy in Gloss Black. To be honest I never even noticed any writing on the drivers waveguide. I sold them 3 months later. Great speakers but just not for me. I sure hope i didnt pass along a pair of fake R3 Meta's.
Really tempted to buy these speakers but have been a bit put off after watching a video showing how easy it is to dent and damage the aluminium bass drivers
I really wouldn't worry about that unless you have kids, and even if you do just have a serious conversation about how disappointed you would be and the consequences if they dent them.
Just to mention - rear plate consists crossover so if someone swapped that they would not have same crossovers. Weight the speakers - meta is actually lighter than non meta. Also measure them I think there might be slight difference in size. I think someone swapped only a driver and didn’t pay attention to writing on a shadow flare. So you might have a meta box with non meta driver which would explain why it sound wrong
That’s poetic justice 😂
The crossover is not actually on the terminal plate on the R3 or the R3 Meta. It is two separate boards, one attached to the bottom and one attached to the side of the cabinet. They definitely just swapped the terminal plate.
Same thing happened to me at Best buy. Bought the "R3 Meta" open box and noticed only Uni Q on the baffle. I went as far as removing the driver because I wasn't sure. Not meta. Returned with no problem, but the staff was really confused about the difference.
Have you ever pulled your speakers out around three feet from wall?A stands top plate shouldnt protrude past speaker edge so theres no chance of diffraction.But if you like image now you'll really be blown away if you get them in free space.Turn off center channel for full effect.
I had no prior experience with the KEFs until a few days ago when I went to the local BestBuy showroom and tested them out. I was very disappointed. It didn't matter which amp I paired them with, they all sounded muffled compared to everything else. Both Martin Logans and Bower and Wilkins they had in the room sounded more open and richer.
This is an equalizer problem. If you tried the KEFs with the audio output from a computer which is equalized, then you would get better results.
I think this is more a problem of comparison, the Martin Logans and Bowers & Wilkins both have lifted treble response which many people like (including me) but is not accurate, Kef is a much more neutral speaker so when you side by side compare it to the MLs and B&Ws they sound muffled even though they are not.
KEF also has a narrower dispersion which may contribute to not being "airy"
That boosted treble that sounds so good in the showroom gets awfully tiring after a few hours at home. I prefer the neutrality of the Kefs.
@@AV-Obsessed well, the problem is that it wouldn't be the only thing I listen through, so it would always be compared to something.
I also tried a Best Buy pair and didn't hear an enough music upgrade from several of my current speakers 👍🏼
Point is that the meta material is only attached to the tweeter and not the midrange part. That difference will be really small since it is easy to dampen the higher frequencies without the meta material. That only differences are in the frequency response where the R3 is a bit brighter. That has nothing to do with the meta material. When EQed they sound the same. It is just a tuning of the frequency response difference rather than a difference because of the meta material.
That was a Best Buy employee who pulled that scam. Buy through Crutchfield.
Highly doubt it was a Best Buy employee, they wouldn't want to risk getting fired.
Glad I went with towers Polk signature es55. I can tell these are missing something in the sound. They are pretty though
Son hermanos gemelos .Diferencias extremadamente sutiles no justifican el precio o cambio .
Are you sure the black speakers are not R3 Metas? It could be just an older production version of the speaker that has been sitting in the Best Buy stock room of a long time. I would contact KEF to see if this might be the case. It is possible that you did get ripped off, but I would not be so quick to jump to that conclusion.
I removed the Uni-Q driver from both to compare and they are very different. It's later in the video.
Meta is basically a fancy piece of plastic on the back of the tweeter.....
Break in time on the Meta’s.?
well the maual doesn't seem to specify but I usually give them about a week before I really evaluate sound qulaity.
@ most talk in hours. Many people seem to think 100+ is a good number. I’m in no position to speculate. Just wondered if maybe any noticeable difference might be related to broken in VS new. Thanks for the review. I might try a pair of OG with a sub.
I work for best buy. If someone swapped the speakers out like that any decent manager would honor the return. We would at my store anyway. Ive got issues with best buy as a corperation and company don't get me started, but theyre usually good about stuff like that
I heard part of the cost in the upgrade was the finish ❓
the Finish options are the same between the older R series and the Metas, I just happened to have two different finishes in this video.
You werent able to take the ones you had back to BB?
Haven't tried to return them yet, I will make a short to update on how it goes.
I clearly hear the difference with The Metas. The mid-range is better. The original r3s sound hollow at times. Very noticeable with acoustic and electric guitar. Seems to me the crossover end speakers were upgraded a bit. I am listening in my room on Elac dbr62 Reference speakers. The differences are very obvious because reference speakers are so well-balanced. But then, I have perfect pitch also. Playing and tuning instruments for your entire life gives you a pretty good ear. Thanks for the video.
What is perfect pitch?
@cremersalex Something about 1 in 10,000 people have. You can hear a note in your mind and then play it on an instrument. You have frequencies of notes memorized in your mind. The skill is useful when tuning a stringed instrument. Or a piano. Yes I can tune a piano using one A 440 tuning fork. But I prefer my grand pianos to be tuned to 435 Hertz, because when you hit the larger strings on a piano hard, the weight and inertia of the strings moving back and forth tends to bend the pitch up a bit. You never want to go Sharp. It is okay to be a little flat... We are genetically programmed to be alarmed by sharp notes, as in something approaching you quickly....
@@peterbaugh51Damn! I wish I had your gift. Can you also discern the all the notes when you hear a chord?
@cremersalex Yes, how else would I know which cord to use in a composition? Major? Minor? Major 7th? Minor 7th? Augmented 7th? How about diminished? The change of One note in a cord can change the mood of a composition. Much fun indeed 😏.
I also have UBR62 (plus LS50M). How would you compare the Elac’s bass to the R3 meta?
I’m looking for more explosive punch from kick drums & toms etc around 50 to 500hz
Cheers ✌️
i got ripped off at best Buy from someone doing the same thing but with a videocard..it cost me hundreds and they told me I was SOL.
That sucks, I have heard that if they deny a return at the store if you call corporate they will almost alway override the store decision.
@@AV-Obsessed This was like 15 years ago - but im still pissed! X)
I don't understand.🤔 So is this now the $1300 vs $2200 Kef ❓Do they have the same crossovers ❓
Yeah, but the drivers were optimized
Sounds exactly same for me too bro.
No, this is a comparison between R3 Meta and previous gen R3. Crossover, cabinet and woofer are the same but the mid and tweeter have been upgraded with the M.A.T.
Listen for higher mid range output on the Metas, I can hear the difference throughmy phone speakers.
I would expect the difference in the LS50’s to be the same too. I love my LS50’s and will stay with them based on your conclusion.
Do these have the same crossovers inside?
The crossover points are the same. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is an increase in the volume coming from the mid-range.
The crossover points could be the same while the values could be different... The metas clearly have more mid-range.
The point would be did they use different quality components in the Meta crossover? Also, if the crossover is attached to the back of the binding post plate your regular R3’s may have the Meta crossover and sound different than original.
I don't really think you can tell from a TH-cam video but the meta sound more airy
So got a couple of questions...
Did you buy the R3s as an open box from Best Buy, or were they supposed to be new? (Assuming Open Box)
Did you contact Best Buy?
If so, what was their response?
Very curious about what they have to say.
I tend to avoid open boxed items but have bought demo units from Best Buy in the past.
They should have a record of the previous owner and this should go to their fraud department for further investigation.
Thx.
Yeah, they were open box, I am going to try to return them next week will do a short video update.
Keep us updated with your Best Buy return dilemma.
I'll make a TH-cam short about it whichever way it goes.
Best Buy, wal-mart and Fry's electronics are infamous for repackaging used products and trying to sell them as new. The OG R3's should have been sold as open box or something at least. Not to mention the receipt should have been explicit. In any case, the guy that did the swap basically committed shoplifting, fraud and should be prosecuted.
They were open box, the only thing best buy did wrong here is have employees that are not well trained enough to double check everything looks right when being returned.
Thankyou
The R3's might sound tastier.
Hi !! I just hope you didn't pay the full price for the R3 because it was an open-box product. For some unknown reasons, there are people who prefer the non-Meta version better ( LS 50 versus LS 50 Meta for example ). Since they didn't change anything in the cabinet constrction, crossover and drivers, exept for the Meta material technology, it is hard to understand why you should expect a much better sound. The quality of sound is always relative to the change in design, quality of component and cabinet rigidity and damping. It would be great if pixie dust was real, right? Wish you good luck on your audio journey !!!
The tweeter behaves differently in R3 meta, hence a new crossover is used. The rest is likely the same
Open it up and you'll be able to verify for sure.
Yeah, I did that, it is later in the video.
is meta bettah like cheddah
Someone in the comments mentioned the crossover is mounted to the rear plate. If this is true, then the speakers are not even a true R3. Thanks for the effort but the test is meaningless. Hope you get things sorted and they catch the pos that pulled the scam.
That comment was wrong, the crossover is not mounted to the terminal plate, it is two large PCBs, one mounted to the bottom and one mounted to the side of the cabinet.
I listened to both versions at home in a small room in the near field and in my opinion the older version is more entertaining and direct, but the soundstage is smaller, as if squeezed between the speakers. The meta version is more open, the soundstage is wider, but the sound presentation is less direct, calmer, and after a while they seemed a bit boring to me. So I would prefer the directness and liveliness of the older version + the wider soundstage of the Meta version. In the older version, it is worth playing with bi-wiring. Change cables to better ones. The Treble is then more open, detailed and airy. In the Meta version I didn't hear any difference.
r 300 even better
I have been curious about that.
R3 Sounded better to me, listening through my R3's 😅 Meta's midrange is a bit high for my taste
These are very serious first world problems. All of your hard work is now invalidated. The world will never be the same. I would definitely file suit against Best Buy.
Do you really think somebody would actually go to the trouble to switch the back plate and return them, C'mon man. 🤣
This is the only explaination, I opened up the speakers and confirmed that the black ones are not the meta version.
that's what happens when you buy used. twis what you get for being so damb cheap