Writers Only Have To Know These 5 Basic Voices - Jack Grapes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 เม.ย. 2021
- Jack Grapes is an award-winning poet, playwright, actor, teacher, and the editor and publisher of ONTHEBUS, one of the top literary journals in the country. He has won several publishing grants and Fellowships in Literature from the National Endowment for the Arts. He's also received nine Artist-in- Residence Grants from the California Arts Council to teach writing in various schools throughout Los Angeles. He is the author of 13 books of poetry, including TREES, COFFEE, AND THE EYES OF DEER, and BREAKING DOWN THE SURFACE OF THE WORLD. A spoken-word CD, Pretend, was recently issued by DePaul University. He is also author of a chapbook of poems and paintings titled AND THE RUNNING FORM, NAKED, BLAKE. His most recent publication is LUCKY FINDS, a boxed set of 50 cards that extend and parody the dynamic artistic productions of high-modernist poets such as Ezra Pound and Charles Olson. For more information on Jack's classes, please visit: jackgrapes.com/classesgeneral...
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1) Straight Talk: Chit-chat.
2) Poetic style: Metaphors/ similes
3) Repetition: Biblical repetition (3xs), rhythmic beat of the story
4) Non-communicative language: stream of conscious, non-linear way of speaking (akin to modern art)
5) Your own voice.
Is a deep voice considered your own voice?
@@ErinLAnderson In the full interview, he explains a bit that the deep voice is from a writer's self reflected feeling / true self. He guides the interviewer there briefly and it is quite powerful. Witnessing her journey there makes it plain to see that once a person places themselves in that mental state, that anything they write will be different from the other voices.
Thank you for the cliff notes version!
Does the deep voice fit into this 5 basic voices he mentions here?
I always thought there is something more .
The 5 voices :
Chitchat ,coloquial , casual
Poétic, ornate and metaphoric
Repest things three times like preachers
Non communicative writing , non linear, Inside abstract thinking..(drunk, mád, senile)
Your own voice .
It's all in my book called, "Talk Write: Beginners" it's got 3 styles: funny voice, serious voice and semi-funny/semi-serious ....all books use these three voices
Thank you for this. You saved me 15 minutes of my life that I just wasted thinking about how to thank you for saving me 15 minutes of my life. Oh, and btw...
@@anameyoucantremember Now that you have the outline, can you execute the concepts? That's what the teacher is for. 'Splaining things.
The repetition is more of a style figure ... Ton describe this voice I would have say its the rythmic voice. Then you Can include poetry , rap, répétition, , staccato... Céline used thé rythmic voice a lot
'A latta crap an a cyanvas'.
1. The author's voice
2. Casual, conversational, mundane, chit-chatty
3. Flowery, ornate, poetic
4. Incantatory, rhetorical, spellbinding via repetition
5. Stream of consciousness
What a cool framework. I'm going to play with the dice exercise. Thanks for posting this interview.
Flowery and ornate is not apart of every piece writing style, not mine. Not every poet uses adjectives through their work or alot of words nor have thickly coated lines. It is quite offensive to even claim all poets do that and this is why if someone is not an expert poet like me, need to not claim they know.
A few comments have attempted to summarize his points but this one does it best. Clear, comprehensive, and organized.
"The drama is in the tonalities you switch." Which he teaches in such a easy to understand manner. Wow. Thanks FILM COURAGE.
I love the exitment on his face when he pulled out the cards, it touched me deeply - the way he is passionate about teaching, making his students "love it" as he said
One of the reasons why I had quit film school was that the professors, specifically the ones that “taught” writing were just bitter old men who failed making it in the film industry. This dude however is very intelligent, humorous and well read and it must be incredible to attend one of his lectures.
I disagree. I don’t care much for his bombastic style nor for his self-advertising. He is knowledgeable but I read him as of average intelligence. Very intelligent people communicate in a different style in my experience, usually more confident but also more humble about the limits of their own understanding about their field of study. This guy is more a primary school teacher than an intellectual scientist.
@@Mr.Monta77 To what does his level of intelligence matter?
@@Mr.Monta77 I judge people more by the content of what they say than their style of presentation. Intelligent people do generally also have good presentation style, but there are also vapid "thinkers" who have good presentation style and nothing more. Just focus on the content of what is being said and if there are any good takeaways.
I had similar experiences in film schools - very bitter angry old creeps who would take their frustrations out on their students. I once had a narcissistic acting professor who enjoyed making his students cry. I quit his class after about 3 sessions. I also had a screenwriting professor steal my story and then it was later made into a major picture, but there's nothing I could do about it.
which movie was it?@@corporaterobotslave400
Such a genuine artist. You could tell by how he was showing off his cards how much pleasure he gets out of being a writer.
I agree. He's still playing.
I caught that as well. Also the way he played up the 5th symphony. Just beautiful!
Glad to hear Ludwig is doing well with his music.
Even if he can’t (😏 )
@@OscarPapaOfficial He's not alive anymore.
Watched the clip a second time, read the first comment, laughed at loud, went to like it only to find I already done it. You did it max !
*cackles
Lol
This is brilliant. I'm tired of hearing the same old writing advice. Love to hear ideas like this that I've never heard before.
"The drama is in the tonalities." Mind blown.
I was fascinated by how he spent several minutes describing *rhetoric* without using the word 'rhetoric.' 😂 The repetition he referred to is a *rhetorical device.*
I wasn't sure I heard him right when he casually just said "when Beethoven took my class"😁 Great way to crystallize the lesson!
Holy sh... This was one of those Film Courage videos that hit so hard they become responsible for completely changing how I write (there’s quite a few of those racking up 😅). Thank you for sharing this.
Loved the Beethoven bit. I like this guy. Great insights. Thank you, Film Courage.
Thanks for watching! Look forward to sharing more clips with Jack Grapes in the upcoming weeks / months.
That Beethoven part was brilliant
I just love this channel. It's so underrated. These are great stuff.
Much appreciated!
I realize I am quite randomly asking but do anybody know a good site to stream newly released series online ?
Factually Accurate ✌🏽😩✌🏽
Absolutely. Every single interview gives me so much to chew on.
I just love listening to masters talk about their craft with passion
We've all been taught and remember that conflict drives a storyline forward--but I must admit, I forgot that tonal dynamics is equally important in keeping the story compelling--music to one's ears as Jack vividly displayed in his analogy of teaching Beethoven how to compose.
oh this is one of THE ones...straight gem, omg!! i cant believe writing and music crossed paths this way, i will try this as well in my music, if its good enough for his young student ludwig its good enough for me
"The Story isn't where the drama is. The drama is in the tonality, the shift in tonal dynamics." Okay? And then he explained how he helped his star student with his music composition, and then the magic clicked.
I have seen movies where every scene is dramatized to the same height and it all feels so boring. And then there are movies where filmmakers are intelligent enough to manage this tonality.
@@SanjeevTiwari92 Haha, yes. Even visual tonality can help tremendously: A black and white picture is powerful and dramatic, now a black and white picture with accents of color at times?
Oh, that's called "The Schindler's list"...
@@DonVigaDeFierro or a black and white picture with extraordinary use of lighting and we have Cold War.
I'm going to have so much fun playing with these voices, not only in writing, but in my new video series.
I can't thank you enough for these videos. You help keep me "pen to paper" 📖✍️
This is especially nice because in the last minutes he actually speaks using different tonalities and I could experience a more engaging interview. 🙂
Jack needs to put his books in the ebook format. I’d pay for an ebook copy.
I like how Mr. Grapes made himself a dead man's teacher.
Wow this was so good! I love Jack's energy and the way he explains things
Etr
I just love this man and I just burst out laughing when he talked about Ludwig taking his class. Even with a perfect German impression.
Greetings from Germany! :)
Very few 15 mins videos are worth watching through. This is great stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have to admit I was soured by Mr Grapes' initial idea of... 5... voices. Okay, okay; trying to add a little humor there. Seriously, what a bombshell of writing advice. I will do everything to keep this interview alive in my head. Thank you for an excellent interview and such useful knowledge.
That's a very clear explanation of the dynamics of personality that I have never heard expressed with words in an idea before.... but it's something that as a writer you connect to and say to yourself. Yes. Yes. That resonates. Good stuff.
I love this particular history lesson. Very natural flow and interesting perspective
Awesome talk. A quick summary to help remember it:
Aside from the Natural voice/Deep Voice ...
(1) Straight talk-chit-chatty
(2) Writerly, poetic style with metaphors and similes. Can be done in different degrees.
(3) Repetition
(4) Not a voice but language in a non-communicative way. Stream of consciousness, not in a linear way.
what about cool talk?
A good example of #4 or non linear writing would be James Joyce in his huge novel Ulysses. Some critics say this is the greatest novel ever written. I can't agree with that. It made no sense to me and anyone who says differently is insane. They're littrrl snobs. Elitists. Or they are the genius and I'm the nutjob I don't think so. On the other hand e e cummings was pretty darn something because buffalo bill's defunct, okay?. Kerouac was stream of consciousness but then his characters were all high on drugs. Salinger was always chitchatty. He seemed to appeal to shooters like Chapman and Hinckley etc. Hemingway was the greatest writer of all and bmvrry pithy.
Cool talk was Kerouac and Wallace.and occasionally Seinfeld.
@@jacksonmorganfroghin4815 what are you crazy man? James Joyce is and was always happy the greatest writer that we have ever be given on this Earth! Not only is J.J. a great nationalist( IRA) Irishman , he is the greatest writer of all time. I wonder what James would think of this trivia things??and, how old are you? Because you need to read choices Ulysses a few more times you'll get it as you get older that's the genius of his writing it's a living writing it's incredible he is the greatest.
Drama is in the tonality. Such wisdom. Thank you.
I am really liking this series with Jack Grapes. His ideas and suggestions make so much sense. Now, I have to get his first book. Thanks, Film Courage!
Completely agree
I wish I heard him before. He explained the tone and voice in a objective way no one has ever done that (as far as I know).
I loved this one, short but so useful and nicely explained, thank you!!!!
"Crap on a canvas."
*J.J. Abrams likes this.*
*Rian Johnson loves this.*
*Kathleen Kennedy hired someone to read this to her, didn't understand it, liked it anyway.*
I get what you mean, and i kinda agree with what you wanted to mean. But the way you actually wrote is incorrect. "Crap on a canvas" don't mean the artwork is bad, but it's truly nonsensical, be it on purpose or by external influence. Bad works usually are nonsensical too, but not in this specific kind, it's not a voice, just a failure.
What was your favorite part of this video?
The 'Da Da Da Da!' part :)
Yes, the music part was the perfect metaphor that really made his overall message click. I’ve read about many writers/directors using music in the writing process as inspiration for the tonal flow of the film. Love this channel!
His farly accurate rendition of Beethoven's Fifth!
But the takeaway is to vary the tone of your writing. Might be easiest to do so you can differentiate your characters.
Two minutes of stalling... Second publicity incoming... The best part? Coming to read the comments, and finding out there's a "dadada" in the video. This video feels complete now.
The part where he says "The fourth voice is not a voice."
I've long thought there's a suitable analogy in writing to music composition, but could never crystallize it. This helps a lot with that.
oh! this is why I love frank ocean & kendrick's music so much.
Thank you, Jack.
Thank you to the content creator for the hard work.
Keep it up.
Peace.
Jack is amazing! He and Mark W. Travis are easily my two favorite guests you've interviewed, but you've had so many great ones.
Thanks Izzy, this is only our second video with Jack. Much more to come.
@@filmcourage ❤
Love this and all of your videos, they're so informative and educational!
Thanks! Can't wait to see more!
This guy has an awesome last name. Lol.
He's also a good guide for this art form. The knowledge he's sharing is well appreciated.
I really enjoyed and learned much from the dynamics of the voice, as I'm also a musician. I really like hearing Jack Grapes' explanations about his teaching. After seeing how badly my first novel was written, I knew it was time to learn more about writing, so hopefully, the second novel will be better. Thanks for sharing. Ken Lovan, Atlantic Beach, Florida.
Thank YOU...SO much for this deep insight into the wonderful world of word application.....Language as an ArtForm.... Deep learning....
Learning what he calls the four voices. I just write and know very little about writing. People are always telling me I should write a book because I write beautifully. I wonder if I learn about writing, would I lose what's working now. Would my writing improve? My Dad used to say, "When I [my Dad] went to college, I found the more I learned, the less I knew." By the same token, I was always with the crowd who hated abstract painting until I took up painting still lifes. I started taking the left over paint from a day's session off my palette and put it on a second canvas randomly to clean my palette and not waste paint. I did this after each session on that one canvas until that canvas was full. I started to really like the results and started painting abstracts and found I really enjoyed the process of painting them. The day came in a bookstore when a book, Painting and Understanding Abstracts by Leonard Brooks, caught my eye. My first thought was, "Oooh, don't get it,! You'll wreck what you're doing." I did buy it but didn't look at it for years; yet, I knew that I would read it eventually. It really explained why I grew to love painting abstracts which is that they happen for me organically and that I do them for myself. I have amassed a collection of books on writing and have read some. One that resonated immediately with me is, If You Want to Write: A Book About Art, Independence and Spirit by Brenda Ueland, and, I thought, "Why aren't we given this book to read in school?" I totally understand what Mr. Glass is saying here and love how he puts it all together so succinctly. He's on my list to read now. I'm in the mind of just keep writing and don't worry about knowing hyperbole, metaphor, et al. Keep writing. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
You have to stay connected to your intuition and stat centered with your self .
"Using voice in a non-communicative way." Makes me think of John Lennon and I am the Walrus: "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." He wrote the song lyrics after hearing about college professor's who were analyzing Beatle songs in their classrooms and assigning meaning that wasn't there. He basically said, "Let em get their heads around this." My mind went to that song right away when he talked about that. But there was a lot of helpful information here. The music analogy works for me because I used to write songs and the one's I liked best were those where I changed up the bridge or moved from one key to another midstream. I'm going to try that with my writing and see where it leads. I'm really not that good at writing fiction yet so I have to make the process fun at this stage. Maybe one day I'll get it. In the meantime I'll keep looking for helpful tips like these. Thanks for posting.
Great lesson giving.
Dear Film Courage, I was struck by a comment from the writer of Beetlejuice. He said that although the character was very weird, it was a deeply personal movie. Could you please ask some writers if what they draw on from their inner selves to write their plots and characters makes any difference to the way they live their lives or in their relationships with spouses, families, friends. If their writing is cathartic, or they simply reach a deeper understanding of themselves that is a good thing, but do any of them take it to the next level and make changes to be better people. And please ask for specific examples, without naming names of course.
I get a lot of inspiration from hearing writers talk about writing. Thank you to them for their generosity and to Film Courage for bringing them to me.
Please accept my apologies for this off topic comment but it's the only avenue I have to reach you since I refuse to move from email and texting to social media. ; -(
Nicholas Elliot
you've already moved to social media. youtube is social media.
I think there is a sixth voice. The formal voice. Purely informative and technical. Of course, one could say such a voice lacks tonality but it's still a voice writers use when writing stories.
wonderful video! I LOVE THIS MAN!
That piece of music will be playing in my head all day now
That’s super cool, I never thought of the drama being in change of the tonalities!
Wow...brilliant. loved it. ❣️
Great teacher!
WOW! thank you!
i comeback to this gem everyonce in a while...this time it just dawned on me that this is why social network is a masterpiece, they go back n forth between college straight talk and a more professional voice in the deposition...when timberlakes character comes in tone shifts slightly to seduction as a secondary tone. its just...insane. i'm going to dissect more of my fave movies using this system
This guy cracks me up.
This video can teach you more about writing than a workshop in college.
Thanks!!!
I’m not sure what he’s talking about is voice He’s really talking about using rhetorical devices. To me, voice is the difference in how Salinger has Holden Caulfield narrate to us, as opposed to how Nick Hornsby had the voice of his third-person narrator as it jumped between the two main charters in About a Boy. They are distinctly different. Repetition is a rhetorical device. If it was voice, then Mark Anthony in Julius Caesar and MLK would sound the same. They don’t. They just both use repetition. With Shakespeare tossing in verbal irony into Mark Anthony’s repetition. That’s why they have different voices. This clip was a little too much like an advertisement for his books. I would have liked better examples. If he’s a teacher he should have been ready with better ones. I could go on…
I agree this seems not quite right. His “type 2” seems to include a huge range of voices and styles. And repitition is clearly mixed with other styles
Certainly, if there's one thing I gleaned from this interview it's that the man's self-aggrandizement sure gets in the way of him teaching some basic concepts.
I agree ~ you make excellent points. He would have been clearer if at the outset he'd called it tonality and devices, or something along those lines. It seems to me that voice generally refers to either the natural voice of the writer, or of the narrator. I think you're right, that tone is a device of voice, and of storytelling, but not the same thing as voice.
You're right, voice is a person. Who is speaking? I'd call them styles. A metaphorical style, a coloquial style
"Voices" or "tonalities" are broader categories than rhetorical devices.
Jack claims anything you write will fit in one of these five categories.
Can you say the same for rhetorical devices?
Now, let's examine your argument.
You say Julias Ceasar and MLK would sound the same if they were both in the same voice category.
That's like saying the timpani would sound like a triangle if they were both classified as percussion.
And your narration example simply works outside Jack's categories.
If you're going to criticize a system, you have to use the rules of the system.
You can disagree with his nomenclature, but that's simply a preference.
Wow love this man❤such a great teacher
Would be great if his books were available in ebook format!
Another awesome video. I love the example that he used with Beethoven.
Brilliant.
This guy sure loves the sound of voice 5
This was awesome
Thanks for watching Ron!
Ahh! Yes I would definitely take this guy's class.
This video gave me language to some things I was already doing (that I didn't know I was doing). This was great!
Glad it was helpful Grae!
Thank you very much 🙏🏽
Wow. What a teacher.
This is making me think of Thom Merrilin from Wheel of Time describing how to tell a story and talking about common, low cant and High cant.
I probably spelled all of those terms wrong but its still interesting.
Great clip
I thought i had an original idea when i thought that why hasn't anyone tried to combine lessons from acting into the writing process.
I'm so happy that I found this video. It's clear he has been thinking about writing for a long time and i like his approach to put creativity at the forefront instead of structure.
He's mashing voice with style there.
Very informative. As a boxing aficionado, I appreciate the comparison. Thank you for posting.
good stuff. I enjoyed this guy. thanks.
Glad to hear it!
I heard a rumour that he puts all the cards on the floor and the kids love it
Mr. Grapes: You are speaking of the hand carving of a 19th century Carousel Horse. When Carousel Horses were carved, the Apprentices began only sweeping the floors. It was strongly believed that sweeping up the shavings and wooden scraps would teach them better lessons than any Master Carver could. A good Apprentice would learn from the ground up. The swept up wooden shavings taught them how the neck of horse bent, how the tails curved on certain steeds, how each eye was carved into the balsa wood. They learned like you did, from the ground up! Wonderful story.
Very good Ludwig!
“I have a book…
I have a book…
I have a book…”
So...
1. Conversational Diction
2. Literary and Poetic Diction
3. Rhetorical Diction
4. Abstract Diction
I second this a time, times and half a time
This is closer to what linguists call "registers", the different ways a speaker of the language uses it under different circumstances.
Very good and very interesting.
Following this channel now.
Welcome!
My mini epiphany: In a story, the successful conveyance of different psychology/personalities of characters may be more effectively portrayed by focusing on their "go-to" linguistic style.
Basically: hoity toity people talk like this... salespeople talk like this... romantics talk like this... straight-shooters talk like this... the avant garde say wacky stuff like this...
Thanks AGAIN for another highly informative video! :)
He just became one of my favorite people. On my soul. He just literally explain my writin'g process that I didn't even know I possess as a artist It was when he was talking about Lincoln Beethoven and the voice. Greatness godEnergy 333
I like this guy.
I can see all five of these forms in my writing; very interesting I had no idea what 'voices" I was using yet I've written two books and a few screenplays and plays and a few hundred songs.
Very interesting stuff
I internally referred to myself as a method writer less than a week before finding this video.
Great idea for a course on teaching writing. What I do is much different. I read a ton of different books and naturally absorb different voices and then start writing with my own voice and others combine…. Writing and reading have always been natural for me though…….
Good stuff.
I am a great poet with lots of success including lots of publications and publishers have said I have a distinctive voice and that I am distinguished. Voice is something that is in someone and can be a blend of voices and it can be based upon who you are and where you have come from, culture and your personality. I prefer to build my work with imagery and figurative language and maybe once in a while repeat with a certain style.
When he talks about the 4th voice it reminds me of kurt vonnecuts voice in slaughterhouse
A cigarette in his Nose? Now that’s creative.
What is the style for Getting to the Point? 2:30 mark? 😅
There are only three types of food and if anyone can prove me wrong I will give them a piece of paper with the words “1 billion dollars” written on it: 1. food that tastes good 2. Food that doesn’t taste good 3. Food that has no taste.
@9:05 'Lucky Finds' ... I read about this technique in 'The Novel' by James Michener. Which was written 30 years ago...