I think the best way to get the best of both worlds is to put Leliana on cunning and Zevran on Dex since both of them get a huge bonus if have a high approval rate.
I feel like cunning is the way to go if you're going to bring a party and not play solo since Song of Courage affects everyone, and who cares about lower survivability when you've got allies on hand to provide peels and heals.
I tried something funny, but I never recorded it back in the day. The amount of damage a rogue can make is as ludicrous as an assassin archer in DA:I, about as OP as a mage could be in DA:O. I went up to the dragon by the Temple of Sacred Ashes to try a party of specialized backstab rogues, Zevran, Leliana and my warden, and I also teamed them up with Morrigan who I had given Cone of Cold to stunlock the dragon. It was priceless, the dragon died literally before the first stun from Cone of Cold was over.
I got bit by the DA bug again with DA4 on the horizon, and have been gearing up to do a run through for the 3 games. It was such a nice surprise to see your video pop up.
Nice comparison vid! Have always heard that cunning rogues are better but I've always preferred dex rogues. Seeing your dex rogue not need to take a single health potion throughout the fight just validated my feelings on the build. I much rather have a build that can take on mobs, which is primarily the mode the enemies will appear in, instead of a build that is best for single target bosses. Cun rogue does look very fun though. Maybe I'll build Leliana like that from now on. Thanks for all the info provided here!
I prefer dex rogue because even though cunning rogues have higher damage potential, they miss a lot more than dex rogues. That's because cunning doesn't raise your attack score. Cunning rogues are also very squishy, while dex rogues can face tank almost anything because of their obscene defense and almost never miss a hit.
I'm of the opinion that being a dodgy bugger is as good, if not better, than being a tank. Who needs health and armour when no one can hit you in the first place. It also appeared to me that the dex rogue cleared up quite a bit faster, which can only mean that while the hits are lower damage they are striking so often that the DPS is actually higher.
In my opinion if you want the best dw dagger character, the warrior would be a more sensible pick. An agility stacked berserker with dual daggers do 8+ damage on each hand and with dual-striking you can double your auto attack damage while getting an extra unmitigated 16+ damage with each swing. The only thing I believe the rogue has to compete with a berserker is their wider flanking range that give them a considerable attack bonus, but at the point when you're at around level 14 that shouldn't be a problem anymore. Especially if you have put heroic offense in your healer's tactic slots. This is also why I think cunning is a useless stat because while it gives your rogue a damage bonus it will take away the attack you would have gained with stacking agility. Your damage would look the same in theory but the amount of misses would substantially lower your damage output. Meanwhile agility gives you every facet of melee combat except for crit which is shit anyway.
Im surprised you didnt add in the DLC specs. DAO rogue is what first got me into trying rogue characters from my normal mage route. Fell in love with the insane DPS and something like 80% dodge and crit chance fighting the harvester on nightmare.
Thank you for this video. With the DA: Veilguard announcement i wanted to try rogue for the first time in origins, and did not have any clue on where to start. Very helpful guide!
what an incredible resource of Dragon Age content im glad i found this channel heres some metrics for you..I seen the dreadwolf leaked gameplay footage and decided to go back and finish DA:origins and was looking up builds to use and your channel came up in search.
Nice video. Brought back memories. Although personally, the dual axe, dwarf rogue is my guy. I've gotten the DA:O bug lately. Have decided to dust off the ole 360 and play again. The only reason I still keep my 360 is because of this game.
If I play rogue, I'm going to stack dexterity because I hate being squishy. And hating being squishy is probably why I mostly play Warrior, usually two-handed Champion. Damage is at least respectable, CC for days, and lots of CC immunity if you pick shield or two-handed. The one non-warrior character I play is Arcane Warrior because or course. Who doesn't want Cailan's armor set with Rock Armor, and an emergency Shimmering Shield if things get really serious?
I’ve always felt that it really went down to preferred play style. The Assassin archetype with cunning and massive top end backstab dps vs the duelist archetype with great sustained damage that basically dodge tanks I’ve always been quite partial to the duelist setup I think staying alive longer to DO the damage you set out to is superior IMO
I am playing for the first time and was mapping out if Assassin/Bard was where I wanted to go and this definitely fits how I want to play. I am curious though, is Human absolutely necessary for the Cunning Rogue? I was considering City Elf or Dalish for flavor, but I have no concept of any of the stories. I was just considering saving Human for my Arcane Warrior playthrough in the future.
No, it does not matter that much. Humans simply are the best because of the way their stats are distributed at the beginning. But these builds are viable with any class. :)
Very good video showcasing the differences between dex and cun rogues, but there is a caveat. The conclusion that cun rogues do more damage is somewhat inaccurate. Actually, cun rogues do more damage provided they hit their target. Dex rogues don't have only much better defense, they also have much better accuracy. You can clearly see the cun rogue missing against Cauthrien 3-4 times in a row, while the dex rogue doesn't miss even once. I've played extensively with cun rogues, and that's something that has been bothering me. Even with a full party enabling your cun rogue to perform close to ideal conditions, the missing is still very noticeable, especially against bosses or enemies carrying a shield. People always assume that their hit rates will be similar across the board, and that may even be true for the majority of low level mobs, but against bosses and elites it certainly isn't so.
That is certainly true. You get attack bonus after dex, but get nothing after cunning. However, the Cunning Rogue is not supposed to have good attack, because it's supposed to attack from the back, not the front, where attack does not matter. The idea behind them is to perform backstabs and use Stealth to get behind targets undetected. The reason I miss, is because I go against Cauthrien solo. In an ideal situation, I would have a tank to draw aggro, and my rogue would be able to non-stop backstab Cauthrien. Coup de Grace certainly helps, since I can backstab enemies after I stun them, but that is tricky against Elite Bosses because on Nightmare they are stunned for an extremely short duration. So I would say, you can end up having more damage as a solo Dex Rogue because you are less likely to miss and you have no way of making them not focus on you, but if you have a proper tank that does its job, then the Cunning Rogue can truly eclipse the Dex rogue in terms of pure dps. This is why I managed to kill the High Dragon much faster with the Cunning Rogue - since it is easy to re-position and backstab the dragon because of its size. :)
@@AKisHerceg Yeah, cun rogues should definitely be flanking enemies whenever possible, which grants them a +20 bonus to attack score, but backstabs are not auto hits, you can (and WILL, in my experience) still miss sometimes. High dragons are not difficult to hit, so if you have a tank drawing aggro, cun rogues will definitely performe better there. But, again, against enemies with high defense score, or those who can't be flanked at all, it's not so clear who has the upper hand. I'm doing a new run with a dw warrior now, a class I've never explored much before. Just finished Ostagar, so far I'm very pleasantly surprised, they seem much more powerful than rogue (no surprise there, rogues are pretty weak until they get lethality and coup de grace), let's see how he will hold on further on!
@@thiagorodrigues8179 They are not supposed to be auto hits, but almost nothing has 122 defense in the game, which is how much attack you have with a Cunning rogue like mine while flanking(by picking Duelist instead of Assassin it's 132, but you deal less flanking damage of course). For example the two non-dragon Elite Bosses, Cauthrien and Gaxkang has 101(C) and 80(G) defense. Yeah, I have built many dual-wield warriors and they are always a blast to play. Recently I made a video about a dual-wield Dagger-Zerker. Because of the familiar dex stacking, it's amazing how much damage it deals, while also being an excellent tank(on this front it definitely outshines the double sword/axe/mace warrior). Plus he does not need to worry about flanking or missing stamina. One of my favorite Tank/Damager.
Thank you for the guide. Just started my first play through this week and was wondering what I should do with the stats, but I'm still a bit lost with fighting system input on ps3.
52 Cunning is sweet. Add 2 skills from Deft Hands tree and 2 from Coercion and you have both maxed that way. And you get 6 armor penetration and 21 mental resistance. Rest in Dexterity.
I love these builds. Do they do better with daggers than with swords? I love me my swords 😄 Plus, I was thinking of running only one other sword user in my team, probably Alistair, the others being a healer and archer.
Yes, daggers are much better for these types of rogues. They are faster(hence they also backstab faster) and they get dmg bonus from cunning and dex instead of str like swords. Yup, that party sounds great! :)
@@AKisHerceg cool, thank you. I haven't playe DA:O in years, and now that I have a 360 again, I want to really enjoy this game and play it to it's full potential.
The reason I'm interested in these builds is because I've always preferred to be the rogue of the group, that way I can ensure that I get all the chests and traps.
@@AKisHerceg doesn't Lethality take care of that tho? It uses your cunning instead of strength as a damage modifier, so a full sized weapon, dual wielding rogue should still be possible... 🤔
@@ugn154 It is possible, you can check out my two-handed rogue for that. :) For backstabs however, only the base damage of your main hand weapon is being calculated, so it is completely irrelevant what you hold in the other hand(when it comes to BASE dmg - enchantments still count). Using two swords for a rogue is not optimal because of the speed penalty that comes with full-sized weapons. Especially since you have daggers that give 30% bonus to criticals and backstabs so it is much better to hold that in the weak hand than another sword. There is no sword what would give you the same(Blightblood gives you the best out of all swords and it's only 10% crti/backstab dmg). Two-handed weapons work better than double swords, because although they are slow, two-handed weapons can have very high base damage. Even the crappy Tier 2 Chasind Flatblade with basically no str requirement deals 12.10 base damage, which is higher than a dragonbone Maric's Blade(11.20). And as I said, your backstab is calculated on the base damage. :)
Dude I just finished an archer playthrough and you’re making me want to go back and do a DW rogue after years!! Thanks again. What are your thoughts on a dual wield axe run? Thank you.
I adore it! Especially since you can get two identical The Veshialle axe from the party camp(it resets after the first visit, so if you have the money, you can have two from the beginning of the game). They look great together and they are the best axes in the game. I had an amazing run with my dual-wield alchemist. I melted everything in my way with those bad boys. In fact I plan to make a dual weapon Berserker build with them for this channel. :)
@@charleskonz3273 If you complete the Achievement Grim Reaper(which is basically killing the Harverster on Nightmare in the Golems of Amgarrak dlc), you will be rewarded with the Reaper's Cudgel with every new character you create. This weapon worth over 300 gold, so you can sell it and get the axe as soon as you reach the party camp. :)
@@AKisHerceg Thank you! Been wanting to do a dwarf run eventually but didn’t want to do dual dagger as I’m saving that for my city elf run, so I thought about using axes. Thank you again and looking forward to the future videos!
@@charleskonz3273 You can also exploit the trap quest glitch in Lothering, if you're willing to do that look more into it, you can generate infinite money and exp with that as long as you stay in Lothering
My dwarf duellist/ assassin was so good.. all the backstabbing with a nice magic sword to take out high value targets. And in the expansion he got more tanky with the extra special class I forget it’s name. My one and only play through.. role playing the character development just like I wanted to. Perhaps my favourite gaming experience of all time.
Great vid! Do you use some unofficial patch? Cause as I remember there were attack speed bug which deacrease your attack speed if you have buffed it from multiple sources Also i wonder, could templa with spellward and knigt commander armor be immune to magick completly?
Nope, Swift Salve and Momentum works great together. Brings you to the fasters attack speed, exactly. What does not work is Haste and Momentum. There, you have speed "overflow". Yes, you can stack magic up to 100% to be completely immune to it. :)
Herceg, which stats and talents + gear would you recommend to solo normal with a rogue dual build? So far i have chosen a dwarf Nobel, also which specializations is the best? Thanks
Normal difficulty? Pretty much anything is good in terms of armor: excluding dlc armors, the Dalish armor set gives good defense bonus(+10 for wearing the whole set and you can buy the whole set from the Dalish camp), the Shadows of the Empire gives Dex and Str and you can get boots and gloves based on your preference(Red Jenny Seekers Gloves being the best for a rogue with either Bard's Dancing Shoes or Silverhammer's Tackmasters). The Felon's Coat and Wade's Superior Light armor set also works well. Although you can only get those two later on. If you are looking for good appearance, the Duster Leather armor looks best on a dwarf in my opinion. For the set, you get a small armor bonus, which is not exactly great, but better than nothing. For daggers, obviously the Rose's Thorn is the best in main hand and you can use the Thorn of the Dead Gods(Silverite version is the best) in your other hand. Accessories: Spellward amulet for magic res, Lifegiver for massive health boost and Key to the city for +2 attribute. As for stats, I would recommend putting everything on Dexterity(since you solo, you will need the massive defense so enemies will not hit you). Place just enough points on STR to equip your gear(the best tier version of any Light armor will require 24 STR to equip) and just enough points on Cunning to unlock Master Coercion(requires 16 Cunning to unlock). I recommend putting Dweomer runes into your weapons, since magic can really crush you when you solo. You better have high magic resistance because you will have no help from followers if someone casts Crushing Prison or Curse of Mortality on you. Disabling spells like Horror, Misdirection Hex are also very annoying. Over-time damage spells like Stinging Swarm or Fireball can hurt you really bad as well. At least on Nightmare. Normal is much more forgiving since you have lower duration on harmful effects and they deal less damage as well. For a Dex rogue, the most important skills are passive skills: you need Coup de Grace to auto backstab stunned targets and Combat Movement for wider range for our backstabs. Lethality, and Evasion are also great although many people ignores Evasion because of its animation(interrupts your attacks). For Specializations, get Duelist or Assassin if you really just want to focus on high defense and backstabs. If you want, you can pick up Ranger so you can summon an animal to fight with you - since you plan to solo, a bear can help you out greatly when fighting dragons and the wolf can help you with mobs. :)
Hi, I liked your video but there is something you didn't take in consideration, the time it took both of the buids to finish the battle, the dexterity Rogue took less time to finish the battle with no need of potion ( around 1min40 sec) and with cunning rogue it took more time (around 1 min 50 sec). DPS are more important than damage per hit, it's always a good thing to have Good Damage bonus but not at the price of speed and accuracy and AP will become useless at some level. that' how i play DW rogue, i apply the rule of 4 levels: that mean the first 2 levels i use all attribute point on dexterity, the third level i use it on Cunning and the forth level i use to increase strengh, constitution and willpower (i stop to increase strengh at 22 and use the one remaining level 4 point on dex or cun), i do that every 4 levels. next, i find the best gear that protect me from magic and elements (especially fire element) with this strategy, you'll end up with a rogue that hit often, hard to hit and kill with spells and with good damage and AP, my build is a killing machine
After 14 years, coming back to this video, I completely forgotten my builds and have to refresh a bit. I used to master rogue builds lol. This video is very good refresher course.
Well, if you want big single target damage per hit you go for cunning. If you want to be untouchable you go for dex. So going 50-50 will basically result in a build that has less damage than the cunning rogue but a little bit more defense, and less defense than the dex rogue but a little bit more damage.
Actually, the next is my full magic Arcane Blood Mage - melee focused AW with no hardpoint on anything else other then Magic. She busts through walls, I tell you...
@@StarMarshal Yup! I did get all the Hexes thinking that it will boost my Flame Weapon damage and have auto-crit, but even that is kind of useless, since I kill almost everything with 3 hits(I only use them on Elite Bosses)... With Haste and Swift Salve, that three hit is less than two seconds. The only thing I use often is Blood Control to basically yell "Freeze!" lol. Pretty amusing gameplay - especially as a duo with an Alistair archer. :)
The thing is that this fight is the hardest for most classes, but for the dex rogue it's the perfect fight, as he can dodge all attacks due to his defense parameter. At the same time, there are places in the game where defense doesn't work at all - for example, those two ogres in Denerim can kill dex rogue before he can get back on his feet. The same applies to spiders and shadow werewolves. Also not quite right to compare on the same gear. In order to offset the weak defense of a cunning rogue, you need to put on all the evasion gear you can, while a dex rogue you can focus on the gear that does most damage. For example, a dex rogue doesn't need First Enchanter's Cowl and The Spellward can only be used when encountering mages. Cunning rogue 100% needs to replace the useless +2 dexterity boots with Lion's Paw or Cailan's Greaves (yes strength requirement, but 10% extra dodge chance...).
Naturally all classes have their Achilles Heel, otherwise they would just be overpowered. Ogres in Denerim: yup, the rogue's weakness is the knockdown and stun abilities as well as magic. This is not just the dex rogue, but every rogue. Still, with the Evasion passive you have 20% chance to avoid debilitating abilities like the knockdown from Ram or the stun form Scattershot. Spiders and Shadow Wolfs are a pain for everyone except builds with high armor because Overwhelm is an unavoidable ability. As you said, enemies can mop the floor with the Dex rogue sometimes, which is why it is still good to boost their dodge chance. Some abilities do not check(ignore) defense but they check for dodge%. Dex rogue does not need the FE Cowl or Spellward? Yes, it does. With that Cowl(and the amulet) the dodge % will reach 55% which means that you have a far greater chance to avoid attacks, since for 55% of the time, your defense will not be checked, and you will automatically dodge. If the 55% fails, then your defense will run the roll on weather or not you will be hit. This is much safer. It comes down to preference I guess, but I go with dodge instead of damage. No it does not. Well, at least on Cailan's Greaves - The Lion's Paw gives +10 dodge so yes, that is a good footwear for the cunning rogue - but I don't have that dlc. The human rogue starts with 10 STR. Ten. The BARE minimum requirement for Cailan's Greaves is 36! That is 26 points of STR difference. Even with Fade Fonts and temporary extra STR that is an insane investment into a stat that you have zero benefit from. At that point you might as well just go STR with two full sized weapons, because losing all that CUN is a massive drop from your possible damage. If you are min/maxing, Cailan's Greaves is out of the question for a Cunning rogue.
@@AKisHerceg When I played dex rogue I didn't wear items for extra evasion at all. No one ever hit me anyway )))) That was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that when you put all your points into dex, you just don't need those extra dodges. Just that 20% that give you a chance of not getting knocked down. But it will get in the way a lot the rest of the time because of the attack interruption animation, which is annoying. About the Kylan boots. I just remember them having good evasion, since I used them with a battle mage - who also has a built-in evasion chance against normal attacks and can ramp it up to 80-90%. A rogue would be better off stopping at the lion's paw. p.s. Unfortunately the rogue can't use Reaper's Vestments.
@@AKisHerceg p.p.s. Cool videos man. I haven't seen a two-handed rogue guide from anyone but you. I remember accidentally discovering it myself - I had a sub-optimal cunning rogue, but with heavy armor and two swords - and at some point I decided to hit a strong enemy with a two-handed sword from invisibility.... and accidentally knocked out the heavy hand achievement for the first time )))) Very surprised that the game even has backstabs for two-handed weapons.
@@EminNSU Cailan's Greaves works fine with the Arcane Warrior, since that build converts Magic into STR, so high STR requirement is not a problem. Yes, the Combat Magic ability gives 25% dodge chance, so it's easy to boost it up to 75% in Origins esp. with Cailan's Greaves.
@@AKisHerceg More! Fade Shroud 25% + Battledress of the Provocateur (+15%) + Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering (+10%) + The Spellward (+10%) + First Enchanter's Cowl (+10%) + Cailan's Greaves (+20%) = 90% dodge. Or 85% with Reaper's Vestments Instead of Battledress of the Provocateur
I thought part of the cunning fight looked like they had a harder time scoring hits than the dex build. But it could also have been that they were getting hit by stuff that might have debuffed their attack since they actually got hit some.
Cunning Rogues have lower attack than Dex rogues because they don't get attack bonus directly from Cunning, only from Song of Courage and the backstab attack bonus(+20). Which is why they really have to focus on backstabs. So Dex rogues are always more accurate and more defended, but they deal around half the damage. :)
If my count is accurate, it took about 38 seconds to take down the boss as cunning (there was the potion chugging, but I also am only counting the time she was focus fired, not the AOEs she took) vs the dex build doing it in about 23 seconds.
@@jasonbell791 Avoiding interruptions and having better accuracy can increase your dps significantly. Even if the Dex rogue can't deal as much per hit damage as the Cunning rogue. :)
i made a dwarf 1/1 dex cunning with bard and duelits plus legionnaire in awakening and got lots of fun. Next will be a dw rogue duelist/ranger, an agile scoundrel with a good hand for pets haha. But for now im enjoying a dw warrior champion/templar. Everlasting game...everlasting saga. Are you using any mods worth mentioning??
Nope, no mods. Well, other than the(in my opinion must have) Visual Effect Annoyance remover(or whatever it is called - the mod to remove the sustained ability visual effects) - otherwise my game crashes in every 2 minutes. :)
Basically, a cunning based Rogue is not particularly suitable for solo walkthrough due to limited defence. Even DEX Rogue is pretty challenging at times, because getting high magic resistance and dodge chance (displacement) is basically limited to the second half of the game. Before that, with low health and armor, enemies with stunlock abilities or spellcasters can kill unsupported main character very quickly.
Stealth is actually a very effective way for the Cunning rogue to avoid fights altogether. For example you can walk through the entire Deep Roads(just run to the exit to the next thaig while Stealth is active)/Mountain Caverns(run to Kolgrim and pick the "I think I will kill this Andraste and take her power" dialogue option and it will kick you out of the dialogue and you won't fight Kolgim either)/Bercillian Ruins(when you enter the lower ruins, just run to the last room where the Arcane Horror appears and jump into the water, it will transfer you to the next location even if you are in combat) sections without lifting a finger - this of course cuts off some of the xp you would get, but you can always go back after you get the xp for finishing the quest). Cunning Rogue does get into trouble when it fights Elite Bosses, since Stealth is not an option there. But you only fight those during the endgame anyway.
I guess it is a matter of perspective. :) Considering that a Dex rogue can have 160-170+ defense, I would say 90-100 is pretty low for a squishy rogue. Especially when enemies can have many attack boost and defense reducing skills, like Precise Striking, War Cry, Weakness Aura, Weakness, Miasma, Rally, Dueling etc. That defense can quickly end up being 60-70 during a fight. Which makes you a punching bag against anything but critters.
@@alessandrogarofalo9951 You can go for both but in my opinion it’s not worth it. If you invest more into dex as a cunning rogue you would loose so much damage that it wouldn’t worth the hassle to build it. If you put more cunning on a dex rogue, you forgo defense for the sake of a tiny damage buff which also doesn’t worth it in my opinion since the best thing about a dex build is the high defense.
You should specify this only really matters when you're soloing. Cun DW rogues are not really in danger when in an efficient and effective party. Therefore, there's really no question which you should build. Granted, I don't play this game solo nor do I play it on nightmare. So maybe my biases are for a normal playthrough.
Yeah, as you said "So maybe my biases are for a normal playthrough". I think you should try Nightmare. :) This does not just apply when solo either. There are three things that can give defense: Heroic Aura, Glyph of Warding and Rally. So even if you don't solo, if you want to raise your defense you either bring a Champion or a Support Mage. Otherwise no matter how many people are in your crew, your defense will still be very low. Given the fact that rogues are already squishy because of their low health, low defense can be pretty dangerous on Nightmare where enemies can constantly score a hit even above 110+ defense.
@@AKisHerceg You meant Heroic Defense instead of Aura of Heroism I think? Also you forgot about Incense of Awareness (consumable) which grants +10 Defence for 2 minutes at the cost of 1690 copper which is affordable. Honorable mention for Champion Shield (+15 Defence alltogether and up to 3 copies per playthrough).
@@Sanvone Heroic Defense yup. Heroic Aura is also good because it helps against archers. Incense of Awareness is something you can use when you solo as well. As you see it in the video. We were talking about what your party can give you when it comes to defense. :)
@@AKisHerceg Only one of the mods that will change the WHOLE experience of DA:O! The mod basically changes the rank system of the enemies to make them more lorewise. Animals and untrain solders will be the easiest enemies in easy and normal rank, when seasoned soldiers will be hard and very hard, and Elite and Boss Elite will be the ones that are easily world treatening. For example, in the Circle of Magi, there are tons of Abominations, each said to be capable of killing multiple templars and being and treath for humanity. In vanilla, most of them are easily dealt with. With FCR, almost ALL OF THEM will be Mini bosses or bosses! It makes the game completly different difficulty wise, in some places for better, in others for worse. An example of this is Píotin Aeducan, it will no longer be a boss with the resistance and power of a HighDragon, but rather an elite seasoned soldier. However, ALL the Darkspawn will be difficult, in fact, it makes some of the origin stories very hard, or downright impossible. If that wasn't enough! It comes with some extra debuffs: Longer cooldowns for healing potions Reduce effectivity of all healing and Mana potions Reduce health (Basically, a mage or a puny rogue will die in 2 to 4 hits) Less damage made by players. It converts the ENTIRE game into a new nightmare of tactics that you need to overcome, if you already know where ALL the enemies are, how powerful they are, and how easily defeat them. No longer will you be able to do this Solo. This will make it a CHALLANGE!
Hmm, never tried Flash Creatures Reescale but I played with slinks s3 RAVAge instead. I creates random spawns and random items which is very addicting. It's a great mod as well but the problem was the the gear was a bit op so the game ended up being easier i the long run.
The cunning rogue won the fight in 1 minute and 51 seconds The dexterity rogue won the fight in 1 minute and 41 seconds Make of that what you will. In my book the Dexterity rogue is strongest =) I have played both
While I don't like Rogues particularly (DW Rogues are the most overhyped thing in DAO) I think we could mention that Cunning Rogues have 2 more benefits worth mentioning: - they increase party damage more which matters when focus firing, - they acquire gold and items quicker allowing them to spike earlier, It still feels bad when it takes you 7-8 normal hits to kill normal enemy. Even if you have double the speed of Two Hander, 2H reliably one hit kills normal enemies from around lvl 10 on nightmare. To make it worst you can animation cancel to scratch even more of attack speed delay... Personally I would run Cun Rogue with Shield. Not that it matters if you have anyone else in melee line because of how stupidly powerful stealth is at keeping Rogues safe.
Warriors can have tremendous damage with a full STR build and good crit chance. 150+ dmg is a very common with it. My most recent video shows a Reaver/Berserker build and almost every second or third hit is a 170 dmg critical hit. The only problem of course is the defense, just like with the Cunning rogue.
In your opinion which route would you suggest for a first try at nightmare difficulty, dex or cunning? Based off what I saw kinda leaning towards dex since not being able to be hit is amazing in its own right but, you also can’t be hit if everything is dead… thoughts?
Yup, you get massive bonuses at high levels. You can do a hybrid rogue, but you won't see damage numbers like these popping up, nor you will have this high defense. Generally speaking, in my experience, "hybrid" builds are weaker than "focus" builds. :)
Dual weapon expert is a bad skill IMO There is a bug that damage you According to the wiki If the character with Dual-Weapon Expert has a self-inflicted damage sustainable activated (Aura of Pain, Blood Thirst and/or The Tainted Blade), Dual-Weapon Expert begins to deal damage over time to the character. Also, ir doesn't scale with the character level Nice work dude!
Dex stacked rogue: you move like a Bruce Lee but hit using a pillow. I tried this build and I got bored, it's not fun. Cunning rogue all the way. ✌ Btw, I play a new game and try to copy your video, duo-ing with leliana. Now, she's stealing all the kills just like in your video lol. I used to run leliana as an archer but when I see your video, I have to try it. It's so funny to look at her dealing the finishing blows all the time.
Well, that is why you use poisons! :) Poisons make all the difference for a dex rogue, they can triple your damage output, especially since many of them stun, which allows auto backstabs.
Couple questions bro how do you keep track of all your poisons and is it annoying to do play the game that way? Also I'm switching from 360 to windows pc and I'm not sure what build to make for the easiest time on nightmare. I know aggro juggling tanks and spirit healer/arcane warriors are the best classes in the game but I was wondering what build would you choose if you had to switch consoles and play the game on nightmare with no cash (golem dlc isn't finished so you don't get 300 gold) or glitches 🤔🤔
Nope, not difficult at all. At least for me. That is why I place them on the bar, so I can just activate them one after the other, and I can see how many is left from each. I also don't use all poisons for every encounter. I usually use the most abundant ones like the Crow Poisons and the Deathroot Extracts(they can stun). Against Elite Bosses however, I use all of them for maximum damage. I think I would go with my fav class the 2H warrior. It can be pretty powerful and also deal excellent damage. Plus with Indomitable, you can't be knocked down nor stunned - which are the most annoying things in the game. A two-handed Berserker-Champion. :)
@@AKisHerceg that's the same build I just finished on my Xbox I could see how different they are comparatively any advice on how to deal with the harvester? It was pretty hard on the Xbox I had to reset from awakening to do it 😂😂
I don't think that's a great idea. Massive armor starts around 36 STR(Red Steel). The last double weapon skill needs 36 DEX. This means that you will take away at least 25 CUN from the final build. Pretty absurd if you want to build a damager and your damage is based on CUN. The most rewarding thing in DAO is attribute stacking, because they directly effect your stats, and many skills receive bonuses based on how high they are(esp. CUN). Distributing them so that everything has a little bit everywhere, leads to weaker and less effective builds. I also don't understand why would a rogue wear massive armor. Pretty absurd, unless you are going after some role-play element. :)
@@AKisHerceg Wades Superior Drakeskin and Wade's Superior Dragonskin only gives fatigue and fire resist where Warden Commander and Cailians armor have +15% crit/backstab damage. It doesn't slow you down, and strength requirement goes straight into damage for melee rogues anyways so you lose very little.
@@maxwellhill4754 You lose a lot of damage. I tested this. With the Lethality passive, your Strength will worth next to nothing when it comes to damage. On top of this, you don't get any bonus from the skills that make up the bulk of your damage, namely Song of Courage, Exploit Weakness, Tainted Blade. None of these will receive any benefit from Strength, whereas all of them receive a boost from even from 1 cunning. It simply does not worth wearing massive armor with a cunning rogue if you go after damage. Especially since your main selling point is the 15% crit/backstab damage from those armor sets, which you can easily get from Red Jenny Seekers with 0 STR investment.
Not sure what would be the comparison there, because the stats work a bit differently. In Inquisition you kind of need both to have a good rogue build. :)
Wait a minute... how could you get 83 or 97 points? Are you doing the Tome Glitch? Because there is no way that you get to the 80 points without sacrificing the other atributtes.
Nope, no glitch. And, yup, you certainly can! :) I min/maxed these characters, which means that I spent nothing more than what I had to on other attributes. I used the fade wells to get str/wp/const and the additional dex and cun. They are both at level 25 so that is a total of 77 attribute points(with the 5 you get during character creation). Rogues start with: 10 STR 14 DEX 12 WP 10 MAG 14 CUN 10 CONS Here are the points you get in the fade: Font of Strength (x4) Essence of Dexterity (x4) Essence of Willpower (x4) Essence of Magic (x2) Essence of Cunning (x5) Essence of Constitution (x2) So that makes it: 14 STR 18 DEX 16 WP 12 MAG 19 CUN 12 CONS I placed zero points on str, cons, willpower and magic(I used the well and equipment to get what I needed). With the cunning rogue, I had to place enough dex to reach 35 for Evasion(I did not get dual weapon mastery to preserve that +1 attribute point - plus it does not really do much for a dual dagger rogue anyway). With the dex rogue I placed nothing on cunning. Everything was placed on dex(that is why I don't even have Master Stealth unlocked - I did not have 22 hard point in cunning, only 19(you start with 14 + 5 from the wells in the fade =19 Cunning). Still, I had to use the Harvest Ring from the Stone Prisoner dlc and Andruil's Belt to boost up my strength enough to equip the armor and the gloves, then I switched the ring to the Lifegiver(this ring gives +10 constitution) - that is why you see that the str requirement does not meet my armor and gloves yet, I have them equipped(initially you start with 10 str - you get 4 from the fade, +2 Andruil, +2 Harvest Ring +2 Key to the city = 20 which is the amount needed for the armor and gloves). I also have the Key to the House(+2 attrib) and the Maneuvering Belt(+1 all attrib). I switched Andruil to the Manuvering Belt once the armor was equipped, because it gives +10 dodge %. I have Duncan's Dagger(+4), Battledress of the Provocateur(+4), Silverhammer's Tackmasters(+2) and Rose's Thron(+2) on both characters, that gives +12 dexterity. You have to tomes with 1-1 attribute point. One from Varathorn, one from the dwarf in Orzammar. So for dex rogue(Dalish Elf starts with 14 dex): Initial 14 +5(character creation) + 72(levelling) +2(2 tomes) + 4(fade fonts) = 97 attribute points on Dex. For cunning rogue(Human Noble starts with 15 dex and 15 cunning): Total attribute points from levelling: 77 - 16 goes to Dexterity to reach 35(19(with the +4 from fade)+16=35), we have 61 left. Initial(Cunning) 15 + 5(fade fonts) + 2(tomes) + 61(levelling) = 83 attribute points on Cun. Pretty simple, it's just a pain in the butt to do the fade at low level so you can get those attribute points fast.
Playing a DW rogue for the first time and he fights like a 90 year old diabetic elephant. Where does all the speed come from, I’m assuming I’m missing something quite obvious. It’s been a while since I last played this (about eight years) so I’ve forgotten a lot of nuances.
Rogues can achieve max speed with the combination of the mage spell Haste and the consumable Swift Salve. They can also reach this with their own sustainable skill Momentum and Swift Salve. However the mage spell Haste and Momentum will not stack properly, so don’t mix those two because you will lose the speed bonus completely.
Evasion is bad for dex rogues as it has a long animation reducing damage output, while not increasing their dodge chance. Because of high defense, overall dodge for dex rouges may go like from 5% -> 4% (1% difference) while for cunning rogues who have lower defense, it may take them from 50% -> 40%(10%). This is because with evasions applies multiplicatively and not additively AFAIK. Try to test dex rogue without evasion!
That half second animation will not reduce the damage output drastically. Definitely not enough to say that without it, it would be able to compete with the cunning rogue... Especially, since the cunning rogue also has the animation. Plus Evasion is definitely not bad, since that skill also gives 20% chance to resist knockback, knockdown, slip, and stun. Which helps with dps, not decreases it. For example, even in this video at 9:21 you can see my dex rogue using Evasion to resist the stun from Scattershot. The same way she can resist the Ogre's Ram, the High Dragon's Roar, Sweep, Tail Swipe, the Golem's Quake etc. In my opinion, very useful skill. :)
@@kuzcoman7049 I used Momentum+Swift Salve(no Haste when you solo) and why would I play without them? :) If you are playing a DD rogue without Momentum and Swift Salve, then you lose way more dps than what you lose by picking Evasion. I would never play a DD rogue without Momentum and Swift Salve, since it would be a waste of time - might as well play a DW Warrior instead.
Are these all on nightmare difficulty? And do you just do this since rogue is considered the worst class in origins? So is this to disprove this notion? I have lots of questions lol
Yup, everything you see on my channel is always on the hardest difficulty. :) Worst class? Well, I have not heard that before, but I definitely disagree with it.
@@AKisHerceg oh I have heard. I always thought rogue was the worst of the three for the hardest difficulty. I heard mage was the best and shield and sword were the second best. My personal favorite in all three games is shield and sword but it’s cuz I hate being knocked down lol
@@conradkorbol I think the Dex rogue and the Arcane Warrior are the easiest to complete the game with solo. That should definitely put the rogue far away from the worst class category. :) They can move around enemies undetected, even skip boss fights and huge parts of the otherwise grueling places like the Deep Roads. Whereas W&S Warriors have no choice but to slowly "chip away" every enemy in the game. Their damage is weak, their crowd control is basically non-existent(only War Cry as a Champion), and they have no way of avoiding any tough fights.
Archer should go with the Summoner, the Bard or the Duelist. Assassin is mainly for backstabbing. :) A high cunning archer make use of the Assassin spec, but I would rather pick a different one.
@@clancy1379 In Awakening, DEX archers wreck everything with their new Accuracy skill or whatever it is called. In fact, the highest numbers you can see is from a dex archer using Accuracy + AoS; granted, you will only see those thousands of dmg on whit or yellow mobs, but still... you won't find other skills to hit for 5k+ dmg; maybe mana clash?). In Origins, archers are fairly underwhelming compared to DW, but they definitely have their bright points (such as sniping mages with AoS). I think it just hurts them a lot the fact that most skills are just not worth using, when compared to simply auto-attacking (e.g you actually lose DPS by using stuff like critical strike even in the early game)
I want to do a playthrough where every single ally gets killed. Sten dies in his cage. Leliana at the Temple of Ashes. Wynne in the Circle Tower Alastair by Anora. Loghain at the Archdemon. Mogan in witch hunt. But I've heard you can get rid of her by telling her you didn't kill Flemeth. Dog at Ostagar. Zevran when he attacks you. Oghren in the parrty camp. Shale at thwe Anvil. 🤣 I want to go into Awakening as the Warden commander where none of my allies followed me because everybody was dead. Might even kill Loghain, have Anora kill Alistair, and then die to the archdemon. Because fuck even letting my own character live. 🤣🤣🤣
I have invested all of my stats into attack and dexterity and am currently wielding tier 2 weapons and my hits are still shit. Idk what I’m doing wrong.
Are you taking about Origins? Tier 2 weapons in Origins are Grey Iron I believe, which is the second worse category. So no wonder your damage is low. Get a Silverite(Tier 6) or a Dragonbone(Tier 7) dagger. If you mean Inquisition, then it is the same thing. Tier 2 is the second worse category(Tier 4 is the best, Tier 3 is already good). Your damage will not be impressive with Tier 2 no matter which game you play.
@@AKisHerceg I legit don’t know what else to do. The enemy’s keep scaling up no attempt I make to get stronger makes a difference. It’s difficult to strategize with my party because I can’t read what their skills do. This game is making me so angry.
@@spencerbowden2979 Can you be a little less vague? What is your level? Equipment? Stat distribution? What quest are you on? What do you mean you can't read what their skills do? Answer these questions and I might be able to help.
@@AKisHerceg I’m level 6 currently fighting bandits in that settlement my main character is a rogue with a tier 2 dagger and a tier 3 one with improved combat training. I have allister, Morgana and the dog I have 16 strength 22 dexterity and 20 cunning. I use allister to tank damage but he’s easily overwhelmed and killed even though I’ve put my splintmail armor I found on him which is tier 2. I have morgona sniping in the back and the dog trying to aid allister all while I try to get to their back and critical stab them to death. The problem is allister just doesn’t last.
@@spencerbowden2979 Well, rogue is the hardest at early levels, so you just have to suffer through the first 9-10 levels. I actually recommend boosting your dexterity from now on(in fact boost nothing else just this attribute from this moment forward), not your cunning if you have never built rogue before. It is a significantly easier build, and later on you will be almost impossible to kill. Cunning rogues are for more experienced players. Naturally Alistair won't last long at early levels, since he can't take so much damage yet. His armor is trash, his health is not high yet either. Get Shield Wall for him as soon as you can(extra armor and with the passives, he can't be knocked down). That will boost his survivability massively. Your damager at this point should be Morrigan, because she can dish out the most damage. Your rogue is very weak at this point, so be sure to keep him behind the enemies. Don't charge at them with your rogue. Ever. Flank them with it! Elite enemies should be targeted with Morrigan with Vulnerably Hex then Winter's Grasp. This deals a good amount of dmg and has a chance to freeze enemies solid. Elites and dogs also should be paralyzed with Horror by Morrigan, since this will take them out of the fight for a while. It is best to control Morrgian at this point if you don't have much experience with the game, because this way you can deal a lot of damage, which is exactly what is missing for you(plus she is excellent at "hitting and running"}. Your dog can also mass stun enemies with Dread Howl. Use the tactical pause often, and heal when you need to. Utilize hit and run tactics. When you kill an an enemy, you can select your whole party and run away. After a certain distance, you will be dropped out of combat. The bandits don't follow you into town. Put your team at a distance, around the cage of Sten, and order your party to hold and use Morrigan to lure some of them by attacking them with your staff(attack them and then run to your party with Morrigan). The melee fighters should charge at you at this point, but the archers will remain standing where they are. This way it should be much easier to deal with them. Basically you separate the group into two smaller groups. You can also skip the bandits for awhile, and head to the Imperial road(left side of the map - instead of turning right, turn left at the windmill and stay close to the left side). Kill the peasants there who will attack you(they should be easier than the bandits, they have no armor), then save the dwarf there at the end of the road, from a group of darkspawn. After this you will have access to the camp, and Bodhan the dwarf(and Sandal who can enchant your stuff). He has a few good items, some are cheap too, so you can check if there is any equipment there that could help. After you enter the camp, you can also go to the Daish camp if you want to create lots of small healing potions to even the odds(save before you leave the camp, so if you bump into a hard random encounter, you can just reload and try to go there again). Varathorn there has an infinite supply of elfroot, which is what you need for the small healing potion. So get some Empty Flasks from Bodhan and Elfroot from Varathorn and make a few Small Healing Potions with Morrigan(from around 2-3 gold, you can create 100!). Then you can return to the bandits in Lothering. They should be much easier now. I recommend you check out my "Top 5 hardest early level boss fights' video, to see how to fight effectively with the tactical menu. That character is also at level 6 when I took on one of the hardest challenges of the game. As you will see it there, I used Morrgigan there mostly, since she is a killer at early levels.
Cunning bard is a superb option in party. You giving ridiculous buffs to the party. Cant play without a bard in Origins, it's either me or Leliana locked slot.
There are merchants that sell infinite quantities of every crafting material in this game. So it's just a matter of money (which could also be farmed using potion making)
@@UnQuacker ah i figured, i was just too lazy to keep crafting and selling. some of those agents are expensive lol. i just didnt know if there was a dupe glitch or sumn they use
Thanks! :) Yup, Varathorn(Dalish Camp)has infinite materials for poisons(Deathroot, Toxin Extract). The dwarf merchant in the Dust Town in Orzammar has infinite amount of Corrupter Agent and the Tavern Keeper in Denerim(he has the best price) has infinite Concentrator and Distillation Agent. Bodhan in the camp also has infinite of those two, but he is more expensive.
evasion is a dps loss. The animation cancels your attacks, and if you stack dex your defense will be so high you will basically dodge all attacks, making evasion redundant.
In Origins, it might be. If you reach the Golems of Amgarrak dlc, you will not survive without dodge. Even with 300 defense you will be toasted by the skeletons.
I love dealing massive damage with the Cunning rogue, but I really prefer being relaxed knowing that most things can't really hit me with the Dex rogue. :)
As an arcane warrior only scrub lord can anyone help out with some advice? Yes I am an unkillable god, but late game I spend 30% of the time on my ass, because someone CCed me and 60% hitting the air around my foes.
Sadly, not much you can do with knockdown. Just get up. :) You can raise your physical res to 100 with Shimmering Shield so you can be more resistant to it. Heroic Offense will help you out when it comes to attack. If you don't solo, get Alistair, pick the Champion spec and use Rally on him. Keep him close. Use Miasma to lower the defense of enemies and slow them down. All put together should yield more than 30+ additional attack. Your Spellpower is your attack rating basically, so increase it in any way you can(Spellwisp, Spellmight, +Spellpower and +Magic gear).
It’s why I usually put physical resistance runes on my weapons. It prevents knockdowns and magic skills that are prevented by PR so it’s well worth. Shimmering shield is ofc good as well if you have the right equipment to compensate the mana loss.
It gives 10 to both. And basically nothing else. Sure, you get an ability which gives you auto crit for a short time, but that is irrelevant since all you do is backstab which crits automatically anyway. As opposed to massive backstab bonus from Assassin plus Mark of Death which gives another flat 20% dmg bonus plus the stamina restoration from backstab kills. Basically if you plan to backstab you go with an Assassin. Bard is also better for a Cunning Rogue because Song of Courage gives bonus to Attack, Damage and Critical Chance based on cunning.
@@AKisHerceg +10 attack it like 80 cunning SoC with additional +10 defence kinda nice for cunning rogue, and autocrit ability with better hitchance really hep when you can't hide. But in the end for cunning build duelist just slightly cower weak side and assasin slightly buff strong side, not like both a gamechangers but i personaly prefer first way. Bard for first spec still non negotiable.
@@guruvedra My min/maxed Cunning rogue has 97 defense and 102 attack. With the Dueling on it would be 107 and 112. Yup, that is definitely a slight upgrade. My hit chance is still very low, so my auto crit skill would have a hard time actually hitting the target. Now contrast this with the Assassin, which gives around +15 damage on my backstabs. This increases my dps by 30 points, which I personally would not call slight. But to each his own I guess. I think Duelist better for a Dex Rogue(to further increase your attack and defense, plus your auto crit skill is a killer with this much attack) and Assassin is better for a Cunning Rogue(+30 dps adds a lot in my book... I can two-shot any regular enemy from the back). :)
@@AKisHerceg +10 attack = +10% hitchance, for example fighting ser Cautren it impruved hitchance from 56% to 66% and with dual dagger APR its actually solid bust. Same time for dex rogue it far less useful.
With daggers, Swift Salve and Momentum gives the best attack speed because it puts you at 0.5 exactly(which is the cap). Haste + Momentum + Precise Striking puts you at 0.45 which is .05 before the cap, which is minimal, but technically it is the best attack speed you can get.
@@benedictjajo Consumables are awesome! Swift Salve is particularly amazing because it gives you awesome speed without Haste(and its silly attack penalty). You can make infinite amount by buying Deep Mushroom from Ruck(he has infinite amount) and combine it with a Flask, Lyrium Dust and Concentrator Agent(all of them have infinite amount in certain shops).
It's just affects how you play. 1. Use 6 paralyze rune it's almost 60% paralyze every hit and then stack some poison that stun. So the opponent is always out of the game. 2. Use set that give almost 100% dodge and switch 100% spell resisting set when needed.
Paralyze runes don't add up like that(plus they only give you 5% not 10% so 6 would give 30%, but as I said, they don't add up). It's not like dodge or magic res. You will never have a flat 30% chance to paralyze enemies. It's always 5%. With 6 runes, you have six different rolls for 5%. So when one runes fails to paralyze, it runs the next one for the 5% chance, if that fails, it runs the next one for 5% etc. There is no set in DAO that gives almost 100% dodge. The highest you can go before the final battle is 90% and this is with Cailan's Greaves(gives 20% but requires huge str investment since it needs at least 36 for the lowest possible tier) the First Enchanter Cowl(+10%) which you can only buy before the battle of Denerim and the Dark Passage(+5%) which you can miss if you don't want to use Avernus' Research. Without these, you pretty much play through the entire game with around 55-65% dodge, which is not really enough to call it reliable defense.
@@AKisHerceg You are right chance of paralysis is not go up better rune. Time effect just go up. Correct its not 30% but close. But still almost 30% chance every hit and rogue hit very fast. Go 3*rogue that every have 2 weapon which enable almost 30% chance of paralysis every hit. (Can't do that with solo.) Assuming stacking is "each rune has a chance to fire", the probabilities aren't quite just adding them up. The chance that at least one rune out of N fires on each hit: 1-(1-p)^N where p is the probability the rune fires (5% for paralyze). That is 14.3% for 3 runes (close to just adding them). However... not being resisted is where stacked runes can really shine. The math for at least one rune not being resisted is 1-p^N, where p is the chance of resistance. If the target has a 50% resist chance, stacking 3 runes effectively cuts that down to 12.5% (nice). Combining that with the chance to fire, 0.143*0.875 = 12.5% chance to paralyze a target with each hit even though the target has 50% resistance (if you hit and have 3 stacked paralyze runes of course). The resistance-breaking gains of stacking diminish for really high resistances, and they don't really matter for low resistances. If I understand everything correctly, poisons stack in a similar way. What you care about is the probability that at least one of the tries for the effect takes. So you calculate 1 - probability all fail = 1 - ( p_first_fails * p_second_fails * ... ) and the chance the effect fails is just 1 - the chance it works. Poison (Stack): - Deathroot Extract (Auto) 10% chance of causing a 3-second stun per hit (Cheap and unlimited supply) (Flask->Bartender, Bodahn Feddic, Figor Innkeeper, Lloyd ) (Deathroot->Varathorn Brecilian Outskirts, Dalish Camp) - Concentrated Deathroot Extract ( Faryn at the Frostback Mountain Pass, Merchant in Lothering, Quartermaster at Ostagar) 15% chance of causing a 4-second stun per hit (Flask->same as up) (2xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) - Crow Poison (Alimar in Orzammar's Dust Town district) 10% chance of causing a 6-second stun per hit (Flask->same as up) (2xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) (Toxin Extract-> Varathorn) - Concentrated Crow Poison (Cesar in the Denerim Market District) 15% chance of causing a 7-second stun (Flask->same as up) (3xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) (3xToxin Extract-> Varathorn) - Fleshrot (Faryn at the Frostback Mountain Pass) 20% chance of stun for 5 seconds (Flask->same as up) (3xDeathroot->same as up) (2xDistillation Agent->same as up) (Concentrator Agent-> Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic) Calculation: 10%+15%+10%+15%+20%=70% not actual but almost chance to stun. Okay now calculate paralysis 30% and 70% stun you get 100% that is not actual 100% but very close. DAO Items and abilities: - Rogue Evasion +20% chance to Dodge - Cailan's Greaves +20% chance to dodge attacks - Battledress of the Provocateur +15% chance to dodge attacks (If you play Leliana's Song before DAO) - Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering +10% chance to dodge (if you play Witch Hunt DLC before DAO) - The Spellward +10% chance to dodge attacks - First Enchanter's Cowl +10% chance to dodge attacks - Dark Passage +5% chance to dodge attacks 20+20+15+10+10+10++5=90% chance to dodge attacks.
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I think the best way to get the best of both worlds is to put Leliana on cunning and Zevran on Dex since both of them get a huge bonus if have a high approval rate.
Wait. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
@@iordanchis2437 For weapons yes, for bonuses he's got it right. So you re-spec them
Zevran is acquired so late the AI has already ruined most good builds for him by selecting poorly.
@@NobodyNothing-f5c thank god for respec mods
You're probably the only person still making dragon age build videos, it looks like fun
This game will never die!
Hey am here for it, I know I'll probably start another playthrough soon. So might as well get some tips.
@@BrazenNL and the newest Dragon age game is about to be released too😊
I feel like cunning is the way to go if you're going to bring a party and not play solo since Song of Courage affects everyone, and who cares about lower survivability when you've got allies on hand to provide peels and heals.
I tried something funny, but I never recorded it back in the day. The amount of damage a rogue can make is as ludicrous as an assassin archer in DA:I, about as OP as a mage could be in DA:O. I went up to the dragon by the Temple of Sacred Ashes to try a party of specialized backstab rogues, Zevran, Leliana and my warden, and I also teamed them up with Morrigan who I had given Cone of Cold to stunlock the dragon. It was priceless, the dragon died literally before the first stun from Cone of Cold was over.
Glorious
on what difficulty?
I got bit by the DA bug again with DA4 on the horizon, and have been gearing up to do a run through for the 3 games. It was such a nice surprise to see your video pop up.
Nice comparison vid! Have always heard that cunning rogues are better but I've always preferred dex rogues. Seeing your dex rogue not need to take a single health potion throughout the fight just validated my feelings on the build. I much rather have a build that can take on mobs, which is primarily the mode the enemies will appear in, instead of a build that is best for single target bosses. Cun rogue does look very fun though. Maybe I'll build Leliana like that from now on. Thanks for all the info provided here!
I always go with cunning. It's just so satisfying to see the massive crits and bosses going down within seconds.
I prefer dex rogue because even though cunning rogues have higher damage potential, they miss a lot more than dex rogues. That's because cunning doesn't raise your attack score. Cunning rogues are also very squishy, while dex rogues can face tank almost anything because of their obscene defense and almost never miss a hit.
I'm of the opinion that being a dodgy bugger is as good, if not better, than being a tank. Who needs health and armour when no one can hit you in the first place.
It also appeared to me that the dex rogue cleared up quite a bit faster, which can only mean that while the hits are lower damage they are striking so often that the DPS is actually higher.
And, it used like. 1 health potion. Cunning was chugging them.
Pretty much why tanks build Dex over Con in Origins.
Dual-wielding warrior dps/tank maxing out dex followed by 48 strength wearing the heaviest of armour is the way to go.
great for 1v1 and bosses but crowd control is a pain
In my opinion if you want the best dw dagger character, the warrior would be a more sensible pick. An agility stacked berserker with dual daggers do 8+ damage on each hand and with dual-striking you can double your auto attack damage while getting an extra unmitigated 16+ damage with each swing. The only thing I believe the rogue has to compete with a berserker is their wider flanking range that give them a considerable attack bonus, but at the point when you're at around level 14 that shouldn't be a problem anymore. Especially if you have put heroic offense in your healer's tactic slots. This is also why I think cunning is a useless stat because while it gives your rogue a damage bonus it will take away the attack you would have gained with stacking agility. Your damage would look the same in theory but the amount of misses would substantially lower your damage output. Meanwhile agility gives you every facet of melee combat except for crit which is shit anyway.
no backstabs for warrior tho
Cunning is still good because stealing is very good in dragon age orgins
@@Vicusor22you don't even need backstab because wielding two bigger swords more than makes up for it.
I'm playing a 16 Cunning Mage lol. I don't even have enough stats for basic spells. But hey at least we know how they passed their college exams.
Very interesting
To me Cunning Rogue is more of a cool. Pick, but Dex felt way stronger when you showcased it
So yeah
Im surprised you didnt add in the DLC specs.
DAO rogue is what first got me into trying rogue characters from my normal mage route. Fell in love with the insane DPS and something like 80% dodge and crit chance fighting the harvester on nightmare.
From the eye test, the Dex rogue was just nasty. You killed off opponents quickly and a lot easier.
Wow I literally was just searching for this because I started a rogue, what a nice coincidence this video was recently uploaded
Thank you for this video. With the DA: Veilguard announcement i wanted to try rogue for the first time in origins, and did not have any clue on where to start. Very helpful guide!
what an incredible resource of Dragon Age content im glad i found this channel heres some metrics for you..I seen the dreadwolf leaked gameplay footage and decided to go back and finish DA:origins and was looking up builds to use and your channel came up in search.
Nice video. Brought back memories. Although personally, the dual axe, dwarf rogue is my guy. I've gotten the DA:O bug lately. Have decided to dust off the ole 360 and play again. The only reason I still keep my 360 is because of this game.
No-brainer to go with cunning due to the buff you'll get from song of courage as a Bard.
If I play rogue, I'm going to stack dexterity because I hate being squishy. And hating being squishy is probably why I mostly play Warrior, usually two-handed Champion. Damage is at least respectable, CC for days, and lots of CC immunity if you pick shield or two-handed.
The one non-warrior character I play is Arcane Warrior because or course. Who doesn't want Cailan's armor set with Rock Armor, and an emergency Shimmering Shield if things get really serious?
I hope in the future you do some of this for DA2, and for the companions of DA2, i always love playing that game despite the bad things
I’ve always felt that it really went down to preferred play style. The Assassin archetype with cunning and massive top end backstab dps vs the duelist archetype with great sustained damage that basically dodge tanks I’ve always been quite partial to the duelist setup I think staying alive longer to DO the damage you set out to is superior IMO
Damn, you getting better at editing. Nice work!
I still remember my full dex rogue acting like Neo from The Matrix in the end game soloing every content without pausing
Please do this for all the classes and builds in the game
I love to play DA as a rogue. In my playthrough I use half cunning and half dex
Damn thats interesting. Back in the day i knew both were important but i wasnt sure which to prioritize so i just put points into both equally
Thank you for putting together this video, fellow DAO geek
37 seconds boss kill with cunning, 24 seconds boss kill with dex.
This makes me want to play Origins.
I am playing for the first time and was mapping out if Assassin/Bard was where I wanted to go and this definitely fits how I want to play. I am curious though, is Human absolutely necessary for the Cunning Rogue? I was considering City Elf or Dalish for flavor, but I have no concept of any of the stories. I was just considering saving Human for my Arcane Warrior playthrough in the future.
No, it does not matter that much. Humans simply are the best because of the way their stats are distributed at the beginning. But these builds are viable with any class. :)
Very good video showcasing the differences between dex and cun rogues, but there is a caveat. The conclusion that cun rogues do more damage is somewhat inaccurate. Actually, cun rogues do more damage provided they hit their target. Dex rogues don't have only much better defense, they also have much better accuracy. You can clearly see the cun rogue missing against Cauthrien 3-4 times in a row, while the dex rogue doesn't miss even once. I've played extensively with cun rogues, and that's something that has been bothering me. Even with a full party enabling your cun rogue to perform close to ideal conditions, the missing is still very noticeable, especially against bosses or enemies carrying a shield. People always assume that their hit rates will be similar across the board, and that may even be true for the majority of low level mobs, but against bosses and elites it certainly isn't so.
That is certainly true. You get attack bonus after dex, but get nothing after cunning.
However, the Cunning Rogue is not supposed to have good attack, because it's supposed to attack from the back, not the front, where attack does not matter.
The idea behind them is to perform backstabs and use Stealth to get behind targets undetected. The reason I miss, is because I go against Cauthrien solo. In an ideal situation, I would have a tank to draw aggro, and my rogue would be able to non-stop backstab Cauthrien.
Coup de Grace certainly helps, since I can backstab enemies after I stun them, but that is tricky against Elite Bosses because on Nightmare they are stunned for an extremely short duration.
So I would say, you can end up having more damage as a solo Dex Rogue because you are less likely to miss and you have no way of making them not focus on you, but if you have a proper tank that does its job, then the Cunning Rogue can truly eclipse the Dex rogue in terms of pure dps.
This is why I managed to kill the High Dragon much faster with the Cunning Rogue - since it is easy to re-position and backstab the dragon because of its size. :)
@@AKisHerceg Yeah, cun rogues should definitely be flanking enemies whenever possible, which grants them a +20 bonus to attack score, but backstabs are not auto hits, you can (and WILL, in my experience) still miss sometimes. High dragons are not difficult to hit, so if you have a tank drawing aggro, cun rogues will definitely performe better there. But, again, against enemies with high defense score, or those who can't be flanked at all, it's not so clear who has the upper hand.
I'm doing a new run with a dw warrior now, a class I've never explored much before. Just finished Ostagar, so far I'm very pleasantly surprised, they seem much more powerful than rogue (no surprise there, rogues are pretty weak until they get lethality and coup de grace), let's see how he will hold on further on!
@@thiagorodrigues8179 They are not supposed to be auto hits, but almost nothing has 122 defense in the game, which is how much attack you have with a Cunning rogue like mine while flanking(by picking Duelist instead of Assassin it's 132, but you deal less flanking damage of course).
For example the two non-dragon Elite Bosses, Cauthrien and Gaxkang has 101(C) and 80(G) defense.
Yeah, I have built many dual-wield warriors and they are always a blast to play. Recently I made a video about a dual-wield Dagger-Zerker. Because of the familiar dex stacking, it's amazing how much damage it deals, while also being an excellent tank(on this front it definitely outshines the double sword/axe/mace warrior). Plus he does not need to worry about flanking or missing stamina. One of my favorite Tank/Damager.
i would say that max cunning is better for bosses while max dex is for get rid of multiple enemies that are around those bosses
That would be my opinion as well. Dexterity is certainly better for crowds, while Cunning is the ultimate boss killer.
Spot on
Thank you for the guide. Just started my first play through this week and was wondering what I should do with the stats, but I'm still a bit lost with fighting system input on ps3.
52 Cunning is sweet. Add 2 skills from Deft Hands tree and 2 from Coercion and you have both maxed that way. And you get 6 armor penetration and 21 mental resistance.
Rest in Dexterity.
Thanks. Gave me some idea abut how to build Leliana. Although i would appreciate if you put the two Stats build at the end.
You can see more details in my Master Assassin Trilogy build. :)
I wanna go Cunning cuz when big numbers pop up I pop off! but i feel like dex would be better on harder difficulties
That is certainly true. Dex is kind of a "headache medicine" on Nightmare.
I love these builds. Do they do better with daggers than with swords?
I love me my swords 😄
Plus, I was thinking of running only one other sword user in my team, probably Alistair, the others being a healer and archer.
Yes, daggers are much better for these types of rogues. They are faster(hence they also backstab faster) and they get dmg bonus from cunning and dex instead of str like swords.
Yup, that party sounds great! :)
@@AKisHerceg cool, thank you. I haven't playe DA:O in years, and now that I have a 360 again, I want to really enjoy this game and play it to it's full potential.
The reason I'm interested in these builds is because I've always preferred to be the rogue of the group, that way I can ensure that I get all the chests and traps.
@@AKisHerceg doesn't Lethality take care of that tho?
It uses your cunning instead of strength as a damage modifier, so a full sized weapon, dual wielding rogue should still be possible... 🤔
@@ugn154 It is possible, you can check out my two-handed rogue for that. :)
For backstabs however, only the base damage of your main hand weapon is being calculated, so it is completely irrelevant what you hold in the other hand(when it comes to BASE dmg - enchantments still count). Using two swords for a rogue is not optimal because of the speed penalty that comes with full-sized weapons. Especially since you have daggers that give 30% bonus to criticals and backstabs so it is much better to hold that in the weak hand than another sword. There is no sword what would give you the same(Blightblood gives you the best out of all swords and it's only 10% crti/backstab dmg).
Two-handed weapons work better than double swords, because although they are slow, two-handed weapons can have very high base damage. Even the crappy Tier 2 Chasind Flatblade with basically no str requirement deals 12.10 base damage, which is higher than a dragonbone Maric's Blade(11.20). And as I said, your backstab is calculated on the base damage. :)
Dude I just finished an archer playthrough and you’re making me want to go back and do a DW rogue after years!! Thanks again. What are your thoughts on a dual wield axe run? Thank you.
I adore it! Especially since you can get two identical The Veshialle axe from the party camp(it resets after the first visit, so if you have the money, you can have two from the beginning of the game). They look great together and they are the best axes in the game.
I had an amazing run with my dual-wield alchemist. I melted everything in my way with those bad boys. In fact I plan to make a dual weapon Berserker build with them for this channel. :)
How did you get money for the Vashaille the first time you visited camp?? :o
@@charleskonz3273 If you complete the Achievement Grim Reaper(which is basically killing the Harverster on Nightmare in the Golems of Amgarrak dlc), you will be rewarded with the Reaper's Cudgel with every new character you create. This weapon worth over 300 gold, so you can sell it and get the axe as soon as you reach the party camp. :)
@@AKisHerceg Thank you! Been wanting to do a dwarf run eventually but didn’t want to do dual dagger as I’m saving that for my city elf run, so I thought about using axes. Thank you again and looking forward to the future videos!
@@charleskonz3273 You can also exploit the trap quest glitch in Lothering, if you're willing to do that look more into it, you can generate infinite money and exp with that as long as you stay in Lothering
My dwarf duellist/ assassin was so good.. all the backstabbing with a nice magic sword to take out high value targets. And in the expansion he got more tanky with the extra special class I forget it’s name.
My one and only play through.. role playing the character development just like I wanted to.
Perhaps my favourite gaming experience of all time.
Great vid!
Do you use some unofficial patch? Cause as I remember there were attack speed bug which deacrease your attack speed if you have buffed it from multiple sources
Also i wonder, could templa with spellward and knigt commander armor be immune to magick completly?
Nope, Swift Salve and Momentum works great together. Brings you to the fasters attack speed, exactly. What does not work is Haste and Momentum. There, you have speed "overflow".
Yes, you can stack magic up to 100% to be completely immune to it. :)
To hell with the damage! I CRAVE myself a rogue who gives no shit. Dexterity build it is! Thank you so much for this info
Herceg, which stats and talents + gear would you recommend to solo normal with a rogue dual build? So far i have chosen a dwarf Nobel, also which specializations is the best? Thanks
Normal difficulty? Pretty much anything is good in terms of armor: excluding dlc armors, the Dalish armor set gives good defense bonus(+10 for wearing the whole set and you can buy the whole set from the Dalish camp), the Shadows of the Empire gives Dex and Str and you can get boots and gloves based on your preference(Red Jenny Seekers Gloves being the best for a rogue with either Bard's Dancing Shoes or Silverhammer's Tackmasters).
The Felon's Coat and Wade's Superior Light armor set also works well. Although you can only get those two later on.
If you are looking for good appearance, the Duster Leather armor looks best on a dwarf in my opinion. For the set, you get a small armor bonus, which is not exactly great, but better than nothing.
For daggers, obviously the Rose's Thorn is the best in main hand and you can use the Thorn of the Dead Gods(Silverite version is the best) in your other hand.
Accessories: Spellward amulet for magic res, Lifegiver for massive health boost and Key to the city for +2 attribute.
As for stats, I would recommend putting everything on Dexterity(since you solo, you will need the massive defense so enemies will not hit you). Place just enough points on STR to equip your gear(the best tier version of any Light armor will require 24 STR to equip) and just enough points on Cunning to unlock Master Coercion(requires 16 Cunning to unlock).
I recommend putting Dweomer runes into your weapons, since magic can really crush you when you solo. You better have high magic resistance because you will have no help from followers if someone casts Crushing Prison or Curse of Mortality on you. Disabling spells like Horror, Misdirection Hex are also very annoying. Over-time damage spells like Stinging Swarm or Fireball can hurt you really bad as well. At least on Nightmare. Normal is much more forgiving since you have lower duration on harmful effects and they deal less damage as well.
For a Dex rogue, the most important skills are passive skills: you need Coup de Grace to auto backstab stunned targets and Combat Movement for wider range for our backstabs. Lethality, and Evasion are also great although many people ignores Evasion because of its animation(interrupts your attacks).
For Specializations, get Duelist or Assassin if you really just want to focus on high defense and backstabs. If you want, you can pick up Ranger so you can summon an animal to fight with you - since you plan to solo, a bear can help you out greatly when fighting dragons and the wolf can help you with mobs. :)
I always off set the Rogues Dex and Cunning To be more Dex but slightly less Cunning and still rarely got hit and had over 100 damage Crits regularly.
Hi,
I liked your video but there is something you didn't take in consideration, the time it took both of the buids to finish the battle, the dexterity Rogue took less time to finish the battle with no need of potion ( around 1min40 sec) and with cunning rogue it took more time (around 1 min 50 sec).
DPS are more important than damage per hit, it's always a good thing to have Good Damage bonus but not at the price of speed and accuracy and AP will become useless at some level.
that' how i play DW rogue, i apply the rule of 4 levels: that mean the first 2 levels i use all attribute point on dexterity, the third level i use it on Cunning and the forth level i use to increase strengh, constitution and willpower (i stop to increase strengh at 22 and use the one remaining level 4 point on dex or cun), i do that every 4 levels.
next, i find the best gear that protect me from magic and elements (especially fire element)
with this strategy, you'll end up with a rogue that hit often, hard to hit and kill with spells and with good damage and AP, my build is a killing machine
After 14 years, coming back to this video, I completely forgotten my builds and have to refresh a bit. I used to master rogue builds lol. This video is very good refresher course.
What would happen if say you divided points evenly between Dex and Cunning? Like 58 DEX - 58 CUN?
Well, if you want big single target damage per hit you go for cunning. If you want to be untouchable you go for dex.
So going 50-50 will basically result in a build that has less damage than the cunning rogue but a little bit more defense, and less defense than the dex rogue but a little bit more damage.
@@AKisHerceg Would you recommend or discourage it, in terms of performance?
@ Discourage it. :)
What's next? Two handed warrior max dex vs max strength? Mage max magic vs max willpower?
Actually, the next is my full magic Arcane Blood Mage - melee focused AW with no hardpoint on anything else other then Magic. She busts through walls, I tell you...
@@AKisHerceg oh yes, I recall doing that years ago. Nothing but buffs and entropy magic for enemy debuffs.
@@StarMarshal Yup! I did get all the Hexes thinking that it will boost my Flame Weapon damage and have auto-crit, but even that is kind of useless, since I kill almost everything with 3 hits(I only use them on Elite Bosses)... With Haste and Swift Salve, that three hit is less than two seconds. The only thing I use often is Blood Control to basically yell "Freeze!" lol. Pretty amusing gameplay - especially as a duo with an Alistair archer. :)
@@AKisHerceg oh yeah, I meant for miasma and other sustainables. Though I will say the nightmare combo was very useful early game.
The thing is that this fight is the hardest for most classes, but for the dex rogue it's the perfect fight, as he can dodge all attacks due to his defense parameter. At the same time, there are places in the game where defense doesn't work at all - for example, those two ogres in Denerim can kill dex rogue before he can get back on his feet. The same applies to spiders and shadow werewolves.
Also not quite right to compare on the same gear. In order to offset the weak defense of a cunning rogue, you need to put on all the evasion gear you can, while a dex rogue you can focus on the gear that does most damage.
For example, a dex rogue doesn't need First Enchanter's Cowl and The Spellward can only be used when encountering mages.
Cunning rogue 100% needs to replace the useless +2 dexterity boots with Lion's Paw or Cailan's Greaves (yes strength requirement, but 10% extra dodge chance...).
Naturally all classes have their Achilles Heel, otherwise they would just be overpowered.
Ogres in Denerim: yup, the rogue's weakness is the knockdown and stun abilities as well as magic. This is not just the dex rogue, but every rogue. Still, with the Evasion passive you have 20% chance to avoid debilitating abilities like the knockdown from Ram or the stun form Scattershot.
Spiders and Shadow Wolfs are a pain for everyone except builds with high armor because Overwhelm is an unavoidable ability.
As you said, enemies can mop the floor with the Dex rogue sometimes, which is why it is still good to boost their dodge chance. Some abilities do not check(ignore) defense but they check for dodge%.
Dex rogue does not need the FE Cowl or Spellward? Yes, it does. With that Cowl(and the amulet) the dodge % will reach 55% which means that you have a far greater chance to avoid attacks, since for 55% of the time, your defense will not be checked, and you will automatically dodge. If the 55% fails, then your defense will run the roll on weather or not you will be hit. This is much safer. It comes down to preference I guess, but I go with dodge instead of damage.
No it does not. Well, at least on Cailan's Greaves - The Lion's Paw gives +10 dodge so yes, that is a good footwear for the cunning rogue - but I don't have that dlc. The human rogue starts with 10 STR. Ten. The BARE minimum requirement for Cailan's Greaves is 36! That is 26 points of STR difference. Even with Fade Fonts and temporary extra STR that is an insane investment into a stat that you have zero benefit from. At that point you might as well just go STR with two full sized weapons, because losing all that CUN is a massive drop from your possible damage. If you are min/maxing, Cailan's Greaves is out of the question for a Cunning rogue.
@@AKisHerceg When I played dex rogue I didn't wear items for extra evasion at all. No one ever hit me anyway ))))
That was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that when you put all your points into dex, you just don't need those extra dodges. Just that 20% that give you a chance of not getting knocked down. But it will get in the way a lot the rest of the time because of the attack interruption animation, which is annoying.
About the Kylan boots. I just remember them having good evasion, since I used them with a battle mage - who also has a built-in evasion chance against normal attacks and can ramp it up to 80-90%. A rogue would be better off stopping at the lion's paw.
p.s. Unfortunately the rogue can't use Reaper's Vestments.
@@AKisHerceg p.p.s. Cool videos man. I haven't seen a two-handed rogue guide from anyone but you. I remember accidentally discovering it myself - I had a sub-optimal cunning rogue, but with heavy armor and two swords - and at some point I decided to hit a strong enemy with a two-handed sword from invisibility.... and accidentally knocked out the heavy hand achievement for the first time ))))
Very surprised that the game even has backstabs for two-handed weapons.
@@EminNSU Cailan's Greaves works fine with the Arcane Warrior, since that build converts Magic into STR, so high STR requirement is not a problem.
Yes, the Combat Magic ability gives 25% dodge chance, so it's easy to boost it up to 75% in Origins esp. with Cailan's Greaves.
@@AKisHerceg More!
Fade Shroud 25% + Battledress of the Provocateur (+15%) + Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering (+10%) + The Spellward (+10%) + First Enchanter's Cowl (+10%) + Cailan's Greaves (+20%) = 90% dodge.
Or 85% with Reaper's Vestments Instead of Battledress of the Provocateur
I thought part of the cunning fight looked like they had a harder time scoring hits than the dex build. But it could also have been that they were getting hit by stuff that might have debuffed their attack since they actually got hit some.
Cunning Rogues have lower attack than Dex rogues because they don't get attack bonus directly from Cunning, only from Song of Courage and the backstab attack bonus(+20). Which is why they really have to focus on backstabs. So Dex rogues are always more accurate and more defended, but they deal around half the damage. :)
If my count is accurate, it took about 38 seconds to take down the boss as cunning (there was the potion chugging, but I also am only counting the time she was focus fired, not the AOEs she took) vs the dex build doing it in about 23 seconds.
@@jasonbell791 Avoiding interruptions and having better accuracy can increase your dps significantly. Even if the Dex rogue can't deal as much per hit damage as the Cunning rogue. :)
How do you get your rogues to move so quickly? Also great video!!
They use Momentum and I use the Swift Salve consumable. This brings their speed to the maximum. :)
i made a dwarf 1/1 dex cunning with bard and duelits plus legionnaire in awakening and got lots of fun.
Next will be a dw rogue duelist/ranger, an agile scoundrel with a good hand for pets haha. But for now im enjoying a dw warrior champion/templar. Everlasting game...everlasting saga.
Are you using any mods worth mentioning??
Nope, no mods. Well, other than the(in my opinion must have) Visual Effect Annoyance remover(or whatever it is called - the mod to remove the sustained ability visual effects) - otherwise my game crashes in every 2 minutes. :)
Basically, a cunning based Rogue is not particularly suitable for solo walkthrough due to limited defence. Even DEX Rogue is pretty challenging at times, because getting high magic resistance and dodge chance (displacement) is basically limited to the second half of the game.
Before that, with low health and armor, enemies with stunlock abilities or spellcasters can kill unsupported main character very quickly.
Stealth is actually a very effective way for the Cunning rogue to avoid fights altogether. For example you can walk through the entire Deep Roads(just run to the exit to the next thaig while Stealth is active)/Mountain Caverns(run to Kolgrim and pick the "I think I will kill this Andraste and take her power" dialogue option and it will kick you out of the dialogue and you won't fight Kolgim either)/Bercillian Ruins(when you enter the lower ruins, just run to the last room where the Arcane Horror appears and jump into the water, it will transfer you to the next location even if you are in combat) sections without lifting a finger - this of course cuts off some of the xp you would get, but you can always go back after you get the xp for finishing the quest).
Cunning Rogue does get into trouble when it fights Elite Bosses, since Stealth is not an option there. But you only fight those during the endgame anyway.
This is a great video!
Thanks! :)
I always Dex rogues, since I have mages to set up damage attacks.
When 100 defense is considered “low”
I guess it is a matter of perspective. :)
Considering that a Dex rogue can have 160-170+ defense, I would say 90-100 is pretty low for a squishy rogue. Especially when enemies can have many attack boost and defense reducing skills, like Precise Striking, War Cry, Weakness Aura, Weakness, Miasma, Rally, Dueling etc. That defense can quickly end up being 60-70 during a fight. Which makes you a punching bag against anything but critters.
very useful info
thanks a lot man o7
Haven't played this games in years, but why not both? You can easily build the 2 stats to have the best of both worlds
@@alessandrogarofalo9951 You can go for both but in my opinion it’s not worth it. If you invest more into dex as a cunning rogue you would loose so much damage that it wouldn’t worth the hassle to build it. If you put more cunning on a dex rogue, you forgo defense for the sake of a tiny damage buff which also doesn’t worth it in my opinion since the best thing about a dex build is the high defense.
You should specify this only really matters when you're soloing. Cun DW rogues are not really in danger when in an efficient and effective party. Therefore, there's really no question which you should build. Granted, I don't play this game solo nor do I play it on nightmare. So maybe my biases are for a normal playthrough.
Yeah, as you said "So maybe my biases are for a normal playthrough". I think you should try Nightmare. :)
This does not just apply when solo either. There are three things that can give defense: Heroic Aura, Glyph of Warding and Rally. So even if you don't solo, if you want to raise your defense you either bring a Champion or a Support Mage. Otherwise no matter how many people are in your crew, your defense will still be very low. Given the fact that rogues are already squishy because of their low health, low defense can be pretty dangerous on Nightmare where enemies can constantly score a hit even above 110+ defense.
@@AKisHerceg You meant Heroic Defense instead of Aura of Heroism I think? Also you forgot about Incense of Awareness (consumable) which grants +10 Defence for 2 minutes at the cost of 1690 copper which is affordable. Honorable mention for Champion Shield (+15 Defence alltogether and up to 3 copies per playthrough).
@@Sanvone Heroic Defense yup. Heroic Aura is also good because it helps against archers. Incense of Awareness is something you can use when you solo as well. As you see it in the video. We were talking about what your party can give you when it comes to defense. :)
i didnt even know it was possible to kill the boss in the test run
Jo... I want you to try to do this with Flash Creatures Reescale mod.
Flash Creatures Reescale? What's that?
@@AKisHerceg Only one of the mods that will change the WHOLE experience of DA:O!
The mod basically changes the rank system of the enemies to make them more lorewise.
Animals and untrain solders will be the easiest enemies in easy and normal rank, when seasoned soldiers will be hard and very hard, and Elite and Boss Elite will be the ones that are easily world treatening.
For example, in the Circle of Magi, there are tons of Abominations, each said to be capable of killing multiple templars and being and treath for humanity. In vanilla, most of them are easily dealt with. With FCR, almost ALL OF THEM will be Mini bosses or bosses!
It makes the game completly different difficulty wise, in some places for better, in others for worse. An example of this is Píotin Aeducan, it will no longer be a boss with the resistance and power of a HighDragon, but rather an elite seasoned soldier. However, ALL the Darkspawn will be difficult, in fact, it makes some of the origin stories very hard, or downright impossible.
If that wasn't enough! It comes with some extra debuffs:
Longer cooldowns for healing potions
Reduce effectivity of all healing and Mana potions
Reduce health (Basically, a mage or a puny rogue will die in 2 to 4 hits)
Less damage made by players.
It converts the ENTIRE game into a new nightmare of tactics that you need to overcome, if you already know where ALL the enemies are, how powerful they are, and how easily defeat them.
No longer will you be able to do this Solo. This will make it a CHALLANGE!
Hmm, never tried Flash Creatures Reescale but I played with slinks s3 RAVAge instead. I creates random spawns and random items which is very addicting. It's a great mod as well but the problem was the the gear was a bit op so the game ended up being easier i the long run.
The cunning rogue won the fight in 1 minute and 51 seconds
The dexterity rogue won the fight in 1 minute and 41 seconds
Make of that what you will. In my book the Dexterity rogue is strongest =) I have played both
Cunning seems better because it still has like 35 dexterity while Dex build has like 19 cunning.
While I don't like Rogues particularly (DW Rogues are the most overhyped thing in DAO) I think we could mention that Cunning Rogues have 2 more benefits worth mentioning:
- they increase party damage more which matters when focus firing,
- they acquire gold and items quicker allowing them to spike earlier,
It still feels bad when it takes you 7-8 normal hits to kill normal enemy. Even if you have double the speed of Two Hander, 2H reliably one hit kills normal enemies from around lvl 10 on nightmare. To make it worst you can animation cancel to scratch even more of attack speed delay... Personally I would run Cun Rogue with Shield. Not that it matters if you have anyone else in melee line because of how stupidly powerful stealth is at keeping Rogues safe.
I wish there were tweaks to constitution and strength to make warrior classes equally as OP in the late game.
Warriors can have tremendous damage with a full STR build and good crit chance. 150+ dmg is a very common with it. My most recent video shows a Reaver/Berserker build and almost every second or third hit is a 170 dmg critical hit.
The only problem of course is the defense, just like with the Cunning rogue.
Could you do an Arcane Archer sometime?
In your opinion which route would you suggest for a first try at nightmare difficulty, dex or cunning? Based off what I saw kinda leaning towards dex since not being able to be hit is amazing in its own right but, you also can’t be hit if everything is dead… thoughts?
Definitely Dex. :)
Honest question. Would it be then good to split stats between dex and cunning or you get huge bonuses after hitting a high threshold with each stat?
Yup, you get massive bonuses at high levels. You can do a hybrid rogue, but you won't see damage numbers like these popping up, nor you will have this high defense.
Generally speaking, in my experience, "hybrid" builds are weaker than "focus" builds. :)
@@AKisHerceg got it!! Thanks!
@@chris55729jack of all trades Rogues suck. This is true of all classes, but the Rogue is the least forgiving class if you build them wrong.
Dual weapon expert is a bad skill IMO
There is a bug that damage you
According to the wiki
If the character with Dual-Weapon Expert has a self-inflicted damage sustainable activated (Aura of Pain, Blood Thirst and/or The Tainted Blade), Dual-Weapon Expert begins to deal damage over time to the character.
Also, ir doesn't scale with the character level
Nice work dude!
Thanks! :)
Yeah, I am aware of the bug. Pretty annoying one! But that 2.5% melee crit chance is just too good to pass up.
@@AKisHerceg that's true,
I love your DA:O, thank you so much
on reaver it aint that bad. of course its not intended to be this way, but i find it good to constantly lose ~5 points of health every second.
y but there is a mod that fixes it, at least on pc
@@CastlesKingSide In case anyone is wondering, I believe the mod is Dain's Fixes.
Dex stacked rogue: you move like a Bruce Lee but hit using a pillow. I tried this build and I got bored, it's not fun. Cunning rogue all the way. ✌
Btw, I play a new game and try to copy your video, duo-ing with leliana. Now, she's stealing all the kills just like in your video lol. I used to run leliana as an archer but when I see your video, I have to try it. It's so funny to look at her dealing the finishing blows all the time.
Well, that is why you use poisons! :)
Poisons make all the difference for a dex rogue, they can triple your damage output, especially since many of them stun, which allows auto backstabs.
A bit off topic but does changing from DW daggers to Archery change the outcome?
Nope. :)
@@AKisHerceg Thanks for keeping an awesome game alive!
@@KHeady87 except in Awakening
Couple questions bro
how do you keep track of all your poisons and is it annoying to do play the game that way?
Also I'm switching from 360 to windows pc and I'm not sure what build to make for the easiest time on nightmare. I know aggro juggling tanks and spirit healer/arcane warriors are the best classes in the game but I was wondering what build would you choose if you had to switch consoles and play the game on nightmare with no cash (golem dlc isn't finished so you don't get 300 gold) or glitches 🤔🤔
Nope, not difficult at all. At least for me. That is why I place them on the bar, so I can just activate them one after the other, and I can see how many is left from each.
I also don't use all poisons for every encounter. I usually use the most abundant ones like the Crow Poisons and the Deathroot Extracts(they can stun). Against Elite Bosses however, I use all of them for maximum damage.
I think I would go with my fav class the 2H warrior. It can be pretty powerful and also deal excellent damage. Plus with Indomitable, you can't be knocked down nor stunned - which are the most annoying things in the game.
A two-handed Berserker-Champion. :)
@@AKisHerceg that's the same build I just finished on my Xbox I could see how different they are comparatively any advice on how to deal with the harvester? It was pretty hard on the Xbox I had to reset from awakening to do it 😂😂
@@randyurban6636 It's not that difficult. Just get the Spirit Warrior spec and it will be a cakewalk. :)
There is a mod that will allow your poisons to last and hour.
Why wouldn't you take just enough strength to wear massive armor, just enough Dex for weapons and skills, then pump cunning
I don't think that's a great idea. Massive armor starts around 36 STR(Red Steel). The last double weapon skill needs 36 DEX. This means that you will take away at least 25 CUN from the final build. Pretty absurd if you want to build a damager and your damage is based on CUN.
The most rewarding thing in DAO is attribute stacking, because they directly effect your stats, and many skills receive bonuses based on how high they are(esp. CUN). Distributing them so that everything has a little bit everywhere, leads to weaker and less effective builds.
I also don't understand why would a rogue wear massive armor. Pretty absurd, unless you are going after some role-play element. :)
@@AKisHerceg Wades Superior Drakeskin and Wade's Superior Dragonskin only gives fatigue and fire resist where Warden Commander and Cailians armor have +15% crit/backstab damage. It doesn't slow you down, and strength requirement goes straight into damage for melee rogues anyways so you lose very little.
@@maxwellhill4754 You lose a lot of damage. I tested this.
With the Lethality passive, your Strength will worth next to nothing when it comes to damage. On top of this, you don't get any bonus from the skills that make up the bulk of your damage, namely Song of Courage, Exploit Weakness, Tainted Blade. None of these will receive any benefit from Strength, whereas all of them receive a boost from even from 1 cunning.
It simply does not worth wearing massive armor with a cunning rogue if you go after damage. Especially since your main selling point is the 15% crit/backstab damage from those armor sets, which you can easily get from Red Jenny Seekers with 0 STR investment.
Can you do this comparison for inquisition too please?
Not sure what would be the comparison there, because the stats work a bit differently. In Inquisition you kind of need both to have a good rogue build. :)
Andrastes Knickers weasel i just realise i could stack the coating this whole time......
In the Ultimate Edition, yes. As I hear, there are some patches where you can't, sadly.
Wait a minute... how could you get 83 or 97 points?
Are you doing the Tome Glitch?
Because there is no way that you get to the 80 points without sacrificing the other atributtes.
Nope, no glitch. And, yup, you certainly can! :)
I min/maxed these characters, which means that I spent nothing more than what I had to on other attributes. I used the fade wells to get str/wp/const and the additional dex and cun. They are both at level 25 so that is a total of 77 attribute points(with the 5 you get during character creation).
Rogues start with:
10 STR
14 DEX
12 WP
10 MAG
14 CUN
10 CONS
Here are the points you get in the fade:
Font of Strength (x4)
Essence of Dexterity (x4)
Essence of Willpower (x4)
Essence of Magic (x2)
Essence of Cunning (x5)
Essence of Constitution (x2)
So that makes it:
14 STR
18 DEX
16 WP
12 MAG
19 CUN
12 CONS
I placed zero points on str, cons, willpower and magic(I used the well and equipment to get what I needed). With the cunning rogue, I had to place enough dex to reach 35 for Evasion(I did not get dual weapon mastery to preserve that +1 attribute point - plus it does not really do much for a dual dagger rogue anyway). With the dex rogue I placed nothing on cunning. Everything was placed on dex(that is why I don't even have Master Stealth unlocked - I did not have 22 hard point in cunning, only 19(you start with 14 + 5 from the wells in the fade =19 Cunning).
Still, I had to use the Harvest Ring from the Stone Prisoner dlc and Andruil's Belt to boost up my strength enough to equip the armor and the gloves, then I switched the ring to the Lifegiver(this ring gives +10 constitution) - that is why you see that the str requirement does not meet my armor and gloves yet, I have them equipped(initially you start with 10 str - you get 4 from the fade, +2 Andruil, +2 Harvest Ring +2 Key to the city = 20 which is the amount needed for the armor and gloves). I also have the Key to the House(+2 attrib) and the Maneuvering Belt(+1 all attrib). I switched Andruil to the Manuvering Belt once the armor was equipped, because it gives +10 dodge %.
I have Duncan's Dagger(+4), Battledress of the Provocateur(+4), Silverhammer's Tackmasters(+2) and Rose's Thron(+2) on both characters, that gives +12 dexterity.
You have to tomes with 1-1 attribute point. One from Varathorn, one from the dwarf in Orzammar.
So for dex rogue(Dalish Elf starts with 14 dex): Initial 14 +5(character creation) + 72(levelling) +2(2 tomes) + 4(fade fonts) = 97 attribute points on Dex.
For cunning rogue(Human Noble starts with 15 dex and 15 cunning): Total attribute points from levelling: 77 - 16 goes to Dexterity to reach 35(19(with the +4 from fade)+16=35), we have 61 left.
Initial(Cunning) 15 + 5(fade fonts) + 2(tomes) + 61(levelling) = 83 attribute points on Cun.
Pretty simple, it's just a pain in the butt to do the fade at low level so you can get those attribute points fast.
Playing a DW rogue for the first time and he fights like a 90 year old diabetic elephant.
Where does all the speed come from, I’m assuming I’m missing something quite obvious.
It’s been a while since I last played this (about eight years) so I’ve forgotten a lot of nuances.
Rogues can achieve max speed with the combination of the mage spell Haste and the consumable Swift Salve. They can also reach this with their own sustainable skill Momentum and Swift Salve. However the mage spell Haste and Momentum will not stack properly, so don’t mix those two because you will lose the speed bonus completely.
2handed Cunning rogue ftw.
Evasion is bad for dex rogues as it has a long animation reducing damage output, while not increasing their dodge chance. Because of high defense, overall dodge for dex rouges may go like from 5% -> 4% (1% difference) while for cunning rogues who have lower defense, it may take them from 50% -> 40%(10%). This is because with evasions applies multiplicatively and not additively AFAIK. Try to test dex rogue without evasion!
That half second animation will not reduce the damage output drastically. Definitely not enough to say that without it, it would be able to compete with the cunning rogue... Especially, since the cunning rogue also has the animation.
Plus Evasion is definitely not bad, since that skill also gives 20% chance to resist knockback, knockdown, slip, and stun. Which helps with dps, not decreases it.
For example, even in this video at 9:21 you can see my dex rogue using Evasion to resist the stun from Scattershot. The same way she can resist the Ogre's Ram, the High Dragon's Roar, Sweep, Tail Swipe, the Golem's Quake etc.
In my opinion, very useful skill. :)
@@AKisHerceg if you atacked by 4+ enemy you just cant hit. You just make stupid animations over and over again
@@kuzcoman7049 That is just not true. You can see it in the video where I fight against 6 enemies at once.
@@AKisHerceg its cs you used haste+potion. If you didnt you would stack in this animations.
@@kuzcoman7049 I used Momentum+Swift Salve(no Haste when you solo) and why would I play without them? :)
If you are playing a DD rogue without Momentum and Swift Salve, then you lose way more dps than what you lose by picking Evasion. I would never play a DD rogue without Momentum and Swift Salve, since it would be a waste of time - might as well play a DW Warrior instead.
Are these all on nightmare difficulty? And do you just do this since rogue is considered the worst class in origins? So is this to disprove this notion?
I have lots of questions lol
Yup, everything you see on my channel is always on the hardest difficulty. :)
Worst class? Well, I have not heard that before, but I definitely disagree with it.
@@AKisHerceg oh I have heard. I always thought rogue was the worst of the three for the hardest difficulty.
I heard mage was the best and shield and sword were the second best.
My personal favorite in all three games is shield and sword but it’s cuz I hate being knocked down lol
@@conradkorbol I think the Dex rogue and the Arcane Warrior are the easiest to complete the game with solo. That should definitely put the rogue far away from the worst class category. :)
They can move around enemies undetected, even skip boss fights and huge parts of the otherwise grueling places like the Deep Roads. Whereas W&S Warriors have no choice but to slowly "chip away" every enemy in the game. Their damage is weak, their crowd control is basically non-existent(only War Cry as a Champion), and they have no way of avoiding any tough fights.
@@AKisHerceg yeah your channel has changed my mind as to how awesome
Rouges are lol. I liked my dex dual wielding build. I need to play origins again
Funny, Because I like rogue, I guess I just like the idea of being able to have a skill list for duel wielding
Archer-wise, which specialization is best? Can I still use the Assassin spec?
Archer should go with the Summoner, the Bard or the Duelist. Assassin is mainly for backstabbing. :) A high cunning archer make use of the Assassin spec, but I would rather pick a different one.
@@AKisHerceg I wish I had known that before I spent my points on dexterity. :(
@@clancy1379 In Awakening, DEX archers wreck everything with their new Accuracy skill or whatever it is called. In fact, the highest numbers you can see is from a dex archer using Accuracy + AoS; granted, you will only see those thousands of dmg on whit or yellow mobs, but still... you won't find other skills to hit for 5k+ dmg; maybe mana clash?).
In Origins, archers are fairly underwhelming compared to DW, but they definitely have their bright points (such as sniping mages with AoS). I think it just hurts them a lot the fact that most skills are just not worth using, when compared to simply auto-attacking (e.g you actually lose DPS by using stuff like critical strike even in the early game)
The main problem of cun rogue is low attack rating ;S
I want to do a playthrough where every single ally gets killed.
Sten dies in his cage.
Leliana at the Temple of Ashes.
Wynne in the Circle Tower
Alastair by Anora.
Loghain at the Archdemon.
Mogan in witch hunt. But I've heard you can get rid of her by telling her you didn't kill Flemeth.
Dog at Ostagar.
Zevran when he attacks you.
Oghren in the parrty camp.
Shale at thwe Anvil.
🤣 I want to go into Awakening as the Warden commander where none of my allies followed me because everybody was dead. Might even kill Loghain, have Anora kill Alistair, and then die to the archdemon. Because fuck even letting my own character live. 🤣🤣🤣
Oghren will be in Awakening no matter what. You can only wound Morrigan in Witchhunt, and canonically she is always alive.
I have invested all of my stats into attack and dexterity and am currently wielding tier 2 weapons and my hits are still shit.
Idk what I’m doing wrong.
Are you taking about Origins? Tier 2 weapons in Origins are Grey Iron I believe, which is the second worse category. So no wonder your damage is low.
Get a Silverite(Tier 6) or a Dragonbone(Tier 7) dagger.
If you mean Inquisition, then it is the same thing. Tier 2 is the second worse category(Tier 4 is the best, Tier 3 is already good). Your damage will not be impressive with Tier 2 no matter which game you play.
@@AKisHerceg I legit don’t know what else to do.
The enemy’s keep scaling up no attempt I make to get stronger makes a difference.
It’s difficult to strategize with my party because I can’t read what their skills do.
This game is making me so angry.
@@spencerbowden2979 Can you be a little less vague? What is your level? Equipment? Stat distribution? What quest are you on? What do you mean you can't read what their skills do?
Answer these questions and I might be able to help.
@@AKisHerceg I’m level 6 currently fighting bandits in that settlement my main character is a rogue with a tier 2 dagger and a tier 3 one with improved combat training. I have allister, Morgana and the dog I have 16 strength 22 dexterity and 20 cunning.
I use allister to tank damage but he’s easily overwhelmed and killed even though I’ve put my splintmail armor I found on him which is tier 2.
I have morgona sniping in the back and the dog trying to aid allister all while I try to get to their back and critical stab them to death.
The problem is allister just doesn’t last.
@@spencerbowden2979 Well, rogue is the hardest at early levels, so you just have to suffer through the first 9-10 levels. I actually recommend boosting your dexterity from now on(in fact boost nothing else just this attribute from this moment forward), not your cunning if you have never built rogue before. It is a significantly easier build, and later on you will be almost impossible to kill. Cunning rogues are for more experienced players.
Naturally Alistair won't last long at early levels, since he can't take so much damage yet. His armor is trash, his health is not high yet either. Get Shield Wall for him as soon as you can(extra armor and with the passives, he can't be knocked down). That will boost his survivability massively.
Your damager at this point should be Morrigan, because she can dish out the most damage. Your rogue is very weak at this point, so be sure to keep him behind the enemies. Don't charge at them with your rogue. Ever. Flank them with it!
Elite enemies should be targeted with Morrigan with Vulnerably Hex then Winter's Grasp. This deals a good amount of dmg and has a chance to freeze enemies solid. Elites and dogs also should be paralyzed with Horror by Morrigan, since this will take them out of the fight for a while.
It is best to control Morrgian at this point if you don't have much experience with the game, because this way you can deal a lot of damage, which is exactly what is missing for you(plus she is excellent at "hitting and running"}.
Your dog can also mass stun enemies with Dread Howl.
Use the tactical pause often, and heal when you need to.
Utilize hit and run tactics. When you kill an an enemy, you can select your whole party and run away. After a certain distance, you will be dropped out of combat. The bandits don't follow you into town. Put your team at a distance, around the cage of Sten, and order your party to hold and use Morrigan to lure some of them by attacking them with your staff(attack them and then run to your party with Morrigan). The melee fighters should charge at you at this point, but the archers will remain standing where they are. This way it should be much easier to deal with them. Basically you separate the group into two smaller groups.
You can also skip the bandits for awhile, and head to the Imperial road(left side of the map - instead of turning right, turn left at the windmill and stay close to the left side). Kill the peasants there who will attack you(they should be easier than the bandits, they have no armor), then save the dwarf there at the end of the road, from a group of darkspawn. After this you will have access to the camp, and Bodhan the dwarf(and Sandal who can enchant your stuff). He has a few good items, some are cheap too, so you can check if there is any equipment there that could help.
After you enter the camp, you can also go to the Daish camp if you want to create lots of small healing potions to even the odds(save before you leave the camp, so if you bump into a hard random encounter, you can just reload and try to go there again). Varathorn there has an infinite supply of elfroot, which is what you need for the small healing potion. So get some Empty Flasks from Bodhan and Elfroot from Varathorn and make a few Small Healing Potions with Morrigan(from around 2-3 gold, you can create 100!).
Then you can return to the bandits in Lothering. They should be much easier now.
I recommend you check out my "Top 5 hardest early level boss fights' video, to see how to fight effectively with the tactical menu. That character is also at level 6 when I took on one of the hardest challenges of the game. As you will see it there, I used Morrgigan there mostly, since she is a killer at early levels.
In Inqusition you can get crit chance to 100% And you can get crit damage much higher ☝️
Cunning bard is a superb option in party. You giving ridiculous buffs to the party. Cant play without a bard in Origins, it's either me or Leliana locked slot.
Is there a way you are always able to have so many poisons? Or are you just really efficient at buying materials?
Also I love your videos! DA is my favorite series and I'm getting back into it.
There are merchants that sell infinite quantities of every crafting material in this game. So it's just a matter of money (which could also be farmed using potion making)
@@UnQuacker ah i figured, i was just too lazy to keep crafting and selling. some of those agents are expensive lol. i just didnt know if there was a dupe glitch or sumn they use
Thanks! :)
Yup, Varathorn(Dalish Camp)has infinite materials for poisons(Deathroot, Toxin Extract). The dwarf merchant in the Dust Town in Orzammar has infinite amount of Corrupter Agent and the Tavern Keeper in Denerim(he has the best price) has infinite Concentrator and Distillation Agent. Bodhan in the camp also has infinite of those two, but he is more expensive.
Cunning is better for archers, Dex for daggers rogue, right?
Not really. More like cunning is better for damage, dex is better for defense. :)
how you are stacking so many poisons it overwrites whatever I use.
Poison stacking works depending on your version of the game. The Ultimate Edition allows it. I think patch 1.4 and above.
evasion is a dps loss. The animation cancels your attacks, and if you stack dex your defense will be so high you will basically dodge all attacks, making evasion redundant.
In Origins, it might be. If you reach the Golems of Amgarrak dlc, you will not survive without dodge. Even with 300 defense you will be toasted by the skeletons.
Which one do you prefer?
I love dealing massive damage with the Cunning rogue, but I really prefer being relaxed knowing that most things can't really hit me with the Dex rogue. :)
Dumb question: doesn't a sword and dagger build work better on a dex rogue?!
Definitely not. For a sword you need points on strength which you take away from dex/defense. :)
@@AKisHerceg so basically, no swords on any type of rogue
@@CastlesKingSide Ideally, yes. :)
As an arcane warrior only scrub lord can anyone help out with some advice? Yes I am an unkillable god, but late game I spend 30% of the time on my ass, because someone CCed me and 60% hitting the air around my foes.
Sadly, not much you can do with knockdown. Just get up. :)
You can raise your physical res to 100 with Shimmering Shield so you can be more resistant to it.
Heroic Offense will help you out when it comes to attack. If you don't solo, get Alistair, pick the Champion spec and use Rally on him. Keep him close. Use Miasma to lower the defense of enemies and slow them down.
All put together should yield more than 30+ additional attack. Your Spellpower is your attack rating basically, so increase it in any way you can(Spellwisp, Spellmight, +Spellpower and +Magic gear).
It’s why I usually put physical resistance runes on my weapons. It prevents knockdowns and magic skills that are prevented by PR so it’s well worth. Shimmering shield is ofc good as well if you have the right equipment to compensate the mana loss.
with all that stacked buffs, tho...
@@rafaelbruno2128 Buffs are there to use them.
You need 30 min poisons mod
Kinda disagree with assasin on cunnung rogue. Yes assasin bust backstab but duelist give very appreciate offensive end defenive bonuses.
It gives 10 to both. And basically nothing else. Sure, you get an ability which gives you auto crit for a short time, but that is irrelevant since all you do is backstab which crits automatically anyway. As opposed to massive backstab bonus from Assassin plus Mark of Death which gives another flat 20% dmg bonus plus the stamina restoration from backstab kills. Basically if you plan to backstab you go with an Assassin. Bard is also better for a Cunning Rogue because Song of Courage gives bonus to Attack, Damage and Critical Chance based on cunning.
@@AKisHerceg +10 attack it like 80 cunning SoC with additional +10 defence kinda nice for cunning rogue, and autocrit ability with better hitchance really hep when you can't hide. But in the end for cunning build duelist just slightly cower weak side and assasin slightly buff strong side, not like both a gamechangers but i personaly prefer first way. Bard for first spec still non negotiable.
@@guruvedra My min/maxed Cunning rogue has 97 defense and 102 attack. With the Dueling on it would be 107 and 112. Yup, that is definitely a slight upgrade. My hit chance is still very low, so my auto crit skill would have a hard time actually hitting the target.
Now contrast this with the Assassin, which gives around +15 damage on my backstabs. This increases my dps by 30 points, which I personally would not call slight. But to each his own I guess. I think Duelist better for a Dex Rogue(to further increase your attack and defense, plus your auto crit skill is a killer with this much attack) and Assassin is better for a Cunning Rogue(+30 dps adds a lot in my book... I can two-shot any regular enemy from the back). :)
@@AKisHerceg +10 attack = +10% hitchance, for example fighting ser Cautren it impruved hitchance from 56% to 66% and with dual dagger APR its actually solid bust. Same time for dex rogue it far less useful.
Dual-wield warrior with 2 main hand weapons+haste+momentum+precision strike has still the highest attack speed & dps. 😂
With daggers, Swift Salve and Momentum gives the best attack speed because it puts you at 0.5 exactly(which is the cap).
Haste + Momentum + Precise Striking puts you at 0.45 which is .05 before the cap, which is minimal, but technically it is the best attack speed you can get.
@@AKisHerceg oh, I didn't know that because I never use any consumables buffs.
@@benedictjajo Consumables are awesome! Swift Salve is particularly amazing because it gives you awesome speed without Haste(and its silly attack penalty). You can make infinite amount by buying Deep Mushroom from Ruck(he has infinite amount) and combine it with a Flask, Lyrium Dust and Concentrator Agent(all of them have infinite amount in certain shops).
It's just affects how you play.
1. Use 6 paralyze rune it's almost 60% paralyze every hit and then stack some poison that stun. So the opponent is always out of the game.
2. Use set that give almost 100% dodge and switch 100% spell resisting set when needed.
Paralyze runes don't add up like that(plus they only give you 5% not 10% so 6 would give 30%, but as I said, they don't add up). It's not like dodge or magic res. You will never have a flat 30% chance to paralyze enemies. It's always 5%. With 6 runes, you have six different rolls for 5%. So when one runes fails to paralyze, it runs the next one for the 5% chance, if that fails, it runs the next one for 5% etc.
There is no set in DAO that gives almost 100% dodge. The highest you can go before the final battle is 90% and this is with Cailan's Greaves(gives 20% but requires huge str investment since it needs at least 36 for the lowest possible tier) the First Enchanter Cowl(+10%) which you can only buy before the battle of Denerim and the Dark Passage(+5%) which you can miss if you don't want to use Avernus' Research. Without these, you pretty much play through the entire game with around 55-65% dodge, which is not really enough to call it reliable defense.
@@AKisHerceg
You are right chance of paralysis is not go up better rune. Time effect just go up.
Correct its not 30% but close. But still almost 30% chance every hit and rogue hit very fast.
Go 3*rogue that every have 2 weapon which enable almost 30% chance of paralysis every hit. (Can't do that with solo.)
Assuming stacking is "each rune has a chance to fire", the probabilities aren't quite just adding them up.
The chance that at least one rune out of N fires on each hit:
1-(1-p)^N
where p is the probability the rune fires (5% for paralyze).
That is 14.3% for 3 runes (close to just adding them).
However... not being resisted is where stacked runes can really shine. The math for at least one rune not being resisted is 1-p^N, where p is the chance of resistance.
If the target has a 50% resist chance, stacking 3 runes effectively cuts that down to 12.5% (nice).
Combining that with the chance to fire, 0.143*0.875 = 12.5% chance to paralyze a target with each hit even though the target has 50% resistance (if you hit and have 3 stacked paralyze runes of course).
The resistance-breaking gains of stacking diminish for really high resistances, and they don't really matter for low resistances.
If I understand everything correctly, poisons stack in a similar way.
What you care about is the probability that at least one of the tries for the effect takes. So you calculate 1 - probability all fail
= 1 - ( p_first_fails * p_second_fails * ... )
and the chance the effect fails is just 1 - the chance it works.
Poison (Stack):
- Deathroot Extract (Auto) 10% chance of causing a 3-second stun per hit (Cheap and unlimited supply) (Flask->Bartender, Bodahn Feddic, Figor Innkeeper, Lloyd ) (Deathroot->Varathorn Brecilian Outskirts, Dalish Camp)
- Concentrated Deathroot Extract ( Faryn at the Frostback Mountain Pass, Merchant in Lothering, Quartermaster at Ostagar) 15% chance of causing a 4-second stun per hit (Flask->same as up) (2xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp)
- Crow Poison (Alimar in Orzammar's Dust Town district) 10% chance of causing a 6-second stun per hit (Flask->same as up) (2xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) (Toxin Extract-> Varathorn)
- Concentrated Crow Poison (Cesar in the Denerim Market District) 15% chance of causing a 7-second stun (Flask->same as up) (3xDeathroot->same as up)(Distillation Agent->Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic Camp) (3xToxin Extract-> Varathorn)
- Fleshrot (Faryn at the Frostback Mountain Pass) 20% chance of stun for 5 seconds (Flask->same as up) (3xDeathroot->same as up) (2xDistillation Agent->same as up) (Concentrator Agent-> Bartender Denerim, Bodahn Feddic)
Calculation:
10%+15%+10%+15%+20%=70% not actual but almost chance to stun.
Okay now calculate paralysis 30% and 70% stun you get 100% that is not actual 100% but very close.
DAO Items and abilities:
- Rogue Evasion +20% chance to Dodge
- Cailan's Greaves +20% chance to dodge attacks
- Battledress of the Provocateur +15% chance to dodge attacks (If you play Leliana's Song before DAO)
- Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering +10% chance to dodge (if you play Witch Hunt DLC before DAO)
- The Spellward +10% chance to dodge attacks
- First Enchanter's Cowl +10% chance to dodge attacks
- Dark Passage +5% chance to dodge attacks
20+20+15+10+10+10++5=90% chance to dodge attacks.
@@Random.Walker. You can't stack Cailan's Greaves with the Lion's Paw, since they are both boots and you can only wear one of them.
@@AKisHerceg Fixed. It's just 90% (Only 1/10 hit go armor check.) Awakening it's easy 100%
That's better!