Ok - so I do have to mention that this is why I do watch your videos - If you make a mistake, you show your mistake and work it out. It's amazing how many other peeps videos made always NEVER show their mistakes - editing. I also believe in showing mistakes in my line of work since you ALWAYS learn from them - ALWAYS!!!! This is what makes us "MASTERS" in whatever line of work we are in! Keep up the GREAT work and videos!!! Time lapse was awesome also - loved it.....
Adam, I noticed in the past that fresh casting relax a little over time. This is the reason why they leave castings for precise machines out to rest for a year or longer. It releases it's tension caused by the casting and cooling and deformes by doing so. If you cut the sides the residual tension get's an opportunity to deform your part and the parts finds a new equilibrium too. Flipping the part and skimming bit by bit get's the best results. Thank you for sharing! Best regards, Job
Abom, You are a Fine example of Everything an American man should be, Pride in Workmanship, Pride in Family, and Pride in sharing your work and Life with the World. P.S. saw the new Grill and cant wait until I see you come up with some amazing improvements.
You're a true master craftsman, showing your skills and integrity, no matter the cost in time and effort. Do the job right EVERY TIME! So proud of you, and happy to be a subscriber!
If he was a true master craftsman he would have caught the issue before it was an issue by indicating his fixture before jumping into machining the parts. (From a precision machinist by trade.)
Hey Abom, Just wanted to say thanks. awhile back you told me about the tig welding cup you use, so I ordered a set. After upping my mixture a little I fell in love with it! I ended up ordering 2 more spares and got my buddies to order a set for themselves. My welds are just so pretty, especially when I use helium. I even welding aluminum foil on a bet and got a free beer out of it :) thanks!
Yes, Mister Booth is a professional machinist, but he is human as well. Errors happen !! But he caught the problem and showed it to us as well. He could very easily have simply erased/deleted the videos. So he is also an honest machinist. I think that we all need to analyze the videos of the creation of the 12x12-inch base plate and try to find the source of the problem...the lack of absolutely parallel surfaces over an area of 144 square inches. The real critical issue: the 90-degree angle. Can't wait to see Part 3 !!
As a short run production machinist, thank you for showing your set up fail, the annoyance in your voice, and pushing through and completing the job. Somedays the work just sucks. I see why you set it up that way, but i hated it. Regardless, great quality vid. Thank you!
It impresses with the way you approach your is professionalism and if you encounter an issue you find a way to solve the issue. In this case the problem of the base being out of alignment. Sometimes these issues do not arise at the beginning. So cool.
Very nice work! One small tip from an instrument builder: when working with little spacers under clamps, taping them to the clamp to temporarily keep them in position saves a lot of time and fiddly work, especially when working in batches.
when you put together the table, the vise, the fixture plate, and the machine head, all the undetectable runouts add up. You could spend many futile days trying to chase them down, or you could just mill the plate.
Hi Adam, I always enjoy your videos - so thanks again for your keen insight and perfect timing as you describe every aspect very nearly at the same time I’m thinking about that very same thing. I am puzzled why you didn’t use your new 24-inch fixture plate to line up multiple units on the G&E shaper or even the same mill? Early on when you were considering your approach, it was kind of torturous waiting for you to break it all out. But saving time would have likely made one less video I look forward to the conclusion. You know, it may be possible to acid-etch similar-looking lines into that milled surface using pinstripe-type masking (rolled on of course). Keith Rucker recently did a video on steel Electrolysis, which can etch lines and artistic stencils too.
I wonder if the issue is the rough casting not making full contact with the fixture and flexing under load. Maybe a shim of dead soft copper under the rough side of the piece or a couple passes with a file to knock off high spots would have helped. Just speculating.. I'm just an IT guy, not a machinist.
When you made the base for the fixture plate you made sure the locating dowels were exactly symmetrical. If the base has been removed and reinstalled backwards, this could mean that the base and top surface are no longer parallel.
Hey 👋 Adam I just first want to say I love your videos and the way you explain plus love your other channel . I'm buying a fifth wheel and want to stop at a couple of places you recommend.GEUSSING TH-cam PAYS GOOD LOL I TRULY MISS YOUR REGULAR VIDEO PLUS ALL THE SNS MISS ALL OF IT I pray that you are ok and your family is doing well also God bless 🙏
I thought I could see the piece chattering slightly, hard to tell, but I'm wondering if that copper spacer is being subjected to compression and deforming due to the extreme vibration of the cutter head. This could cause the copper to flow slightly, loosening the clamp holding the piece in place; or not. Maybe the custom table was distorted by bolting the clamps to it.
Your machined fixture plate should have been as perfect as could be. I can't believe that you would allow an error that large to get by you. Please keep us up to date as to what the reason was. You are usually so thorough. It is absolutely critical that you get to the bottom of this!
Adam, I have a strong desire for a 1", 2" or perhaps 3" camel-back straight edge (unmachined) for use as a paper-weight/ornament. It would need to say Windy Hill, Rucker, or (best) Abom79. Having one of those on my desk would be so cool! Mentioned this sentiment to Keith and he made positive noises..... I think some pingers could be made here. You have a lot of fans.
I’ve had machines tilt as the table moves in x. It was a combination of the gibs and the table being worn in one area. It was an old horizontal mill from Cincinnati. It would drop and raise about .03” really bad lol.
Thanks for fantastic content. I have learned so much. One question, I was wondering why you didn’t just clamp them all down to the table directly in a long row. You could have done the face and then edge of all of them in one cut (one for the face and one for the edge) and then done each perpendicular face in a number of other cuts, but without having to move anything. After that, you could line up your “true” edge on the fixture plate for the other 90 degree edge. Anyway, just my thoughts (from someone with virtually no experience! - not trying to teach the expert anything, just curious).
Would it be better physics to spin the fixture 180 degrees? Utilize the cutter/cutting force to keep the part solidly against the fixture pins? Is there a risk of the part moving the way it is set up now? Cut in y-axis first, then in the x-axis.
I realize you probably don't want to take the time but I would completely recheck your setup before I would reface the top . There is a reason for everything. You said fixture plate checked dead "0" . Ether your method of checking it was falty or there is flaw in your setup. There is a reason . There always is .
If I remember right he mounted the cast iron fixture on a steel plate. If there is a difference in the coefficient of expansion between the two materials it could introduce a bow or other movement.
@@Abom79 I ground a pair of end mills a rougher and a finisher . The part in inspection showed the finisher cut with a .003" taper . The inspector suggested I grind it with a taper to correct it . I figured there must be a reason . When I sharpened the rougher it had enough stock on it to put it on the low limit which added .005" additional stock for the finisher . I reset the cutter blades and ground it to the high limit . The next piece cut dead straight . There ways is a reason . Are you going to reface it every time you use it ?
Perhaps a dumb question but would marking the fixture plate as to precisely where and how it was held improve the repeatability to where a sacrificial skim cut is not required ? Same face facing towards the operator,etc ?
Since the vice gets taken off the mill from time to time it would probably get you close but nothing beats a quick 1/10mm skimpass since the machine might settle due to the weather etc.
@@mayshack There are endless different alloys of steel you can make, depending on the proportions of iron, carbon, and sometimes other elements, that you use. 'Cast Iron' is kind of a misnomer. It is not pure iron because it contains a relatively high proportion of carbon. It is actually very similar to 'high-carbon steel', only with a bit more silicon. Therefore cast iron falls on that spectrum of alloys you can make with iron. Cast iron is pretty stiff, which is why its used, but it does it still undergo some elastic deformation? Metallurgist or machinist, you still need to know this stuff.
@@mayshack The term steel is pretty crude, and tells you very little about the material properties. Mild steel and high speed steel are both "steel", but they have very different properties. So does electrical "steel", and stainless "steel", and Hadfield "steel", and chromoly "steel" , and so on...... Mild steel & wrought iron: more alike than some steels. The word is pedantic and trivial.
@@mayshack I'm afraid that you are the pedant. The original comment said "I wonder if that poodle can swim", to which you replied "it's a terrier". Totally irrelevant.
uhm as a machinist at 4:14 i am confused if it's flat and precisly flat ?? why don't u remove the parallel screw it harder and set the flatness by indicate it , that's how i do i t with my worksets to avoid these kinda problem because even if you'r perfectly flat , if you use parallels to make it flat it won't be with some stuff on it or dust it can easily get 0.02 (metric) that's why i use it in a device just without touching anything then just to hold it and indicate it to make it flat and parallel to the table in X and it workedd all the time , but again i enjoyed your videos and still enjoys it today , continue the work :)
This right here! And too many parallels, I work in a machinist field too and they always say never stack parallels or just clamp the fixture to the table and indicate in. I've never heard of re-machining a surface that you "know" to be flat.
@@siegfriedkettlitz6529 I think he's shipping it to Australia to another YT channel that simply drops stuff from a crane. They are going to drop it once they get it.
How is that going to be flat clamping on the middle with nothing under it? NOT tying to talk smack man but I dont see a precision square be made how you are doing it? Please tell me how?
Adam Boothe is a real cool cat and I would take machining lessons from him any day but this one was a head scratcher for me. Anything and everything moves, even with the smallest amount of pressure, go watch Rob Renzetti's surface plate installation.
I'm not a machinist so take everything I ask in that light. Adam was pretty sure the plate was flat, square & level when he made it. So wouldn't the problem be either in the attachment to the vice or the vice to the mill table? I dIon't recall him rechecking either. Maybe the quickest route to a workable solution was to just mill the plate level to the mill table? Nice work either way.
In the first video he trammed in the vertical head to the bed of the vice, so in principle, those should be parallel to each other. There are a lot of things that could have caused the fixture plate to go out of flat. What he should have done, but didn't show doing was indicating the fixture plate when he set it up in the vice to make sure that it was parallel. He would have caught the out of flatness he cut the first side of the squares.
I would make them oversized 0.010 or so per side (0.770 total thickness) that way if someone wanted to harden or surface grind them they could do so and dial them in to 0.750 finished thickness. A little inspection on the surface plate with some feeler gages on the first victim wouldn't hurt.
Would you cut the 45 deg face too, I always find an accurate 45 is handy too and sometimes a small section is ample to work with when finding/marking centres of solid stock etc
How does thermal expansion affect the geometry of the cutter cutters ..... the dimensions deviate greatly from the desired geometry of the part? (как температурное расширение влияет на геометрию резцов фрезы.....размеры сильно уходят от нужной геометрии детали?)
Adam, was wondering if I could ask you a question about a vice some gave me at job site on Boca Grande. A customer of a painter asked me if i had a shop, n work bench, I told him yes, more for wood. He told me that customer's father had recently passed away, had some old tools, do want anything, or somehow he ended up with this vice. Know nothing about it, no year, just what is marked on the side. PRENTISS VICE CO. NEW YORK. BULL DOG'. No 92. Guessing around 30, 40, lbs. Don't have it mounted, but it's in fairly decent condition. The handle has a slight bend, it goes in, n comes out with ease, which tells me nothing is seriously wrong with it, but don't want to drill a 2 3/4" hole, diameter, n 3/8" depth hole in my work bench. I have never seen a vice that has a bottom like it. A large 3/4" stud, washer, a large matching washer as the bottom, then nut n washer as one. Have heard you mention this on your show. Great series as usual, but just curious, thanks for all you share. I am the onion guy. Thanks.
Here is the best info I can find on short notice: www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/looking-info-prentiss-vise-co-115317/ Short version is that they were a well regarded company that made good vises that were at the the time rather innovative. They also made vises under different names for other companies. They were bought up at some point in '48.
Adam. This is only positive criticism but not sure why you didn’t clamp the castings directly to the table. Looks like your fixture has moved in the Vice. Love the videos. 😀👍
@@mayshack Apparently it was ;) I fell asleep moments after. I was merely trying to point out that the reason why Adam is a perfectionist is because his name and rep are on the line... and not in spite of it.
Love tool's they cast the name in. no chinese brands its not made by one person. quite a veriety of cast materiels in steels and irons . had to put a 2" 3/4 shank endmill in the bxa post cause that was the only insert that was hard enough to cut a golds gym dumbell musta been an old train axle cause a file would'nt cut this stuff . it's the grip rim for my er 40 collet chuck or put it flat on the mill table with the index holes in the rim. meat there for balancing
It won't be that great if only milled and not ground. A good precision square should be .0002 per inch or better. You will never get that with milling alone.
Hi Adam, I learn every time I watch your videos. Awesome job. I am saving to buy one of those squares just to have in my shop. How do I order one of the ones that you machined.
Adam, at @ of Part 1 you have them stacked on what I believe is your lift table. It looks like you have a T-slot surface with some kind of cloth. What is it really?
I think what you are referring to is the same surface in the photos at the end of this video. It is just a rubber mat that he has on the top of his lift table, kind of like a door mat.
Looking great, I really liked the time-lapse part. Couldn't you have added another 15 min or so for the edges? Or are you just trying to keep us in suspense? It's a shame about that fixture plate, but that's what it's for.
I would imagine a couple of reasons. 1. I don't think Adam has a surface grinder, and 2. these parts are meant for hand scraping for double awesome tolerances.
@@phildcrow Possibly true on not having a surface grinder but i can tell you at least from the one i used to run, we held .0001" tolerances for Caterpillar on ours. Way better than any milling machine for flatness callouts.
@@phildcrow And I must be ignorant of this "double awesome tolerance " you speak of. I cannot find it anywhere in my machinist handbook. Can you reference that for me. My 15+ yrs machining hasn't afforded me the opportunity of working with that one yet. Thank you in advance.
From Ill. Elastic Deflection A large cast iron section will easily bend when a load is applied, or when weight is added, or may even bend under its own weight. So often and in so many ways does elastic deflection occur, that it is easily mis taken for instability of the iron itself. Deflection may be minimized through design and support, but never completely eliminated. In some instances, as the reader will observe with the two-footed gage (page 2 6 ) deflection is not necessarily detrimental to accuracy, since the amount of deflection is almost perfectly constant, given like conditions. In the case of the extremely rigid 48 inch [1219 mm] master surface plate, a small amount of deflection still occurs, and will be a temporary limiting factor in the attainable accuracy of the plate. It is important to recognize that, with every step in the attainment of accuracy, the problem of elastic deflection is always present. This fact will continually be emphasized throughout the book. Copied from Moore’s “Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy”.
@@davidgibson6909 You must be lots of fun at parties. If you truly can't tell the difference between jest and honest conjecture, hand-scraped tolerances are ±2 ten-thousandths of an inch per foot for squareness and flatness. For most home machinists, hand scraping is the only viable method to achieve these tolerances.
Annoying that the plate was out so you had to rework all those parts. Guess that is why it is always important to check your work as you go, saves time in the long run. One thing I have learned is never Assume anything unless you want trouble!!
Seeing a legend and master machinist like you make mistakes like a mere mortal makes me feel like there's hope for us all.
Ok - so I do have to mention that this is why I do watch your videos - If you make a mistake, you show your mistake and work it out. It's amazing how many other peeps videos made always NEVER show their mistakes - editing. I also believe in showing mistakes in my line of work since you ALWAYS learn from them - ALWAYS!!!! This is what makes us "MASTERS" in whatever line of work we are in! Keep up the GREAT work and videos!!! Time lapse was awesome also - loved it.....
Adam, I noticed in the past that fresh casting relax a little over time. This is the reason why they leave castings for precise machines out to rest for a year or longer. It releases it's tension caused by the casting and cooling and deformes by doing so. If you cut the sides the residual tension get's an opportunity to deform your part and the parts finds a new equilibrium too. Flipping the part and skimming bit by bit get's the best results. Thank you for sharing! Best regards, Job
Abom, You are a Fine example of Everything an American man should be, Pride in Workmanship, Pride in Family, and Pride in sharing your work and Life with the World. P.S. saw the new Grill and cant wait until I see you come up with some amazing improvements.
Literally just finished watching the first. Good timing!
That was a lot of extra work. Respect. I know it’s been a hot summer to boot.
Camerawork noticeably better recently. Liked the musical interlude.
I love watching rough cast getting milled to a shiny finish
You're a true master craftsman, showing your skills and integrity, no matter the cost in time and effort. Do the job right EVERY TIME! So proud of you, and happy to be a subscriber!
If he was a true master craftsman he would have caught the issue before it was an issue by indicating his fixture before jumping into machining the parts. (From a precision machinist by trade.)
Wondering why you didn't machine a couple of counter bores into the fixture plate and secure directly to the table using SHCS and t nuts?
That is what I like about you Adam you tell it like it is. but you always fix your problems. thanks
Hey Abom, Just wanted to say thanks. awhile back you told me about the tig welding cup you use, so I ordered a set. After upping my mixture a little I fell in love with it! I ended up ordering 2 more spares and got my buddies to order a set for themselves. My welds are just so pretty, especially when I use helium. I even welding aluminum foil on a bet and got a free beer out of it :) thanks!
Sounds great! Glad to hear the new gear is helping out your welding game!
Yes, Mister Booth is a professional machinist, but he is human as well. Errors happen !! But he caught the problem and showed it to us as well. He could very easily have simply erased/deleted the videos. So he is also an honest machinist. I think that we all need to analyze the videos of the creation of the 12x12-inch base plate and try to find the source of the problem...the lack of absolutely parallel surfaces over an area of 144 square inches. The real critical issue: the 90-degree angle. Can't wait to see Part 3 !!
Adam, you are a wizard with all kinds of steel, i am admire you're work
As a short run production machinist, thank you for showing your set up fail, the annoyance in your voice, and pushing through and completing the job. Somedays the work just sucks. I see why you set it up that way, but i hated it. Regardless, great quality vid. Thank you!
It's seeing how you react to the rare adversity that makes these videos so educational. Thanks!
I hope you have a part 3 coming its not a saturday night without pic of you your dad and grandad at the end of the video.
It impresses with the way you approach your is professionalism and if you encounter an issue you find a way to solve the issue. In this case the problem of the base being out of alignment. Sometimes these issues do not arise at the beginning. So cool.
Abom literally takes precision to the next level. few people worry about a few thow but this guy has to have absolut protection.
With all due respect to Abom, all machinists have to worry about a few thou all the time.
Hi it’s Stacie! This video is awesome! As always it’s a pleasure watching you do your work! You and Abby are one of my favorite couples! Take care!
Very nice work! One small tip from an instrument builder: when working with little spacers under clamps, taping them to the clamp to temporarily keep them in position saves a lot of time and fiddly work, especially when working in batches.
Thanks for sharing with us Adam, looks good.👍👍
Not a fan of skimming the fixture plate without locating the source of the discrepancy first.
same for me, Adam said the fixture plate was sitting on parallels in the vice, are they source of the discrepancy?
The clamping of the plate in the vise on the X axis might have flexed the casting enough to cause measurable distortion.
when you put together the table, the vise, the fixture plate, and the machine head, all the undetectable runouts add up. You could spend many futile days trying to chase them down, or you could just mill the plate.
@@executive Reminds me of the saying "You can have it fast, accurate or cheap - pick any two".
@@rerun578 Yup. It's often true
Oh goody one more. like turning records back in the day. Just love my saturdays Not going Corona crazy. Thanks. 😊✌
Really liked the time lapse.
Hi Adam, I always enjoy your videos - so thanks again for your keen insight and perfect timing as you describe every aspect very nearly at the same time I’m thinking about that very same thing.
I am puzzled why you didn’t use your new 24-inch fixture plate to line up multiple units on the G&E shaper or even the same mill? Early on when you were considering your approach, it was kind of torturous waiting for you to break it all out. But saving time would have likely made one less video I look forward to the conclusion.
You know, it may be possible to acid-etch similar-looking lines into that milled surface using pinstripe-type masking (rolled on of course). Keith Rucker recently did a video on steel Electrolysis, which can etch lines and artistic stencils too.
Video quality is awesome on these
i cant believe that you refaced the fixture plate.why not bolt the fixture plate direct to the table and eliminate the possible problems with the vise
Keith Rucker machined his 3 months ago, clamped them to the table in the same fashion as Adam and had the same parallelism issues.
Adam, Another awesome video and great content, thanks for sharing your video.!.!.!.
I wonder if the issue is the rough casting not making full contact with the fixture and flexing under load. Maybe a shim of dead soft copper under the rough side of the piece or a couple passes with a file to knock off high spots would have helped. Just speculating.. I'm just an IT guy, not a machinist.
When you made the base for the fixture plate you made sure the locating dowels were exactly symmetrical. If the base has been removed and reinstalled backwards, this could mean that the base and top surface are no longer parallel.
good job bro
Hey 👋 Adam I just first want to say I love your videos and the way you explain plus love your other channel . I'm buying a fifth wheel and want to stop at a couple of places you recommend.GEUSSING TH-cam PAYS GOOD LOL I TRULY MISS YOUR REGULAR VIDEO PLUS ALL THE SNS MISS ALL OF IT I pray that you are ok and your family is doing well also God bless 🙏
I thought I could see the piece chattering slightly, hard to tell, but I'm wondering if that copper spacer is being subjected to compression and deforming due to the extreme vibration of the cutter head. This could cause the copper to flow slightly, loosening the clamp holding the piece in place; or not. Maybe the custom table was distorted by bolting the clamps to it.
Your machined fixture plate should have been as perfect as could be. I can't believe that you would allow an error that large to get by you. Please keep us up to date as to what the reason was. You are usually so thorough. It is absolutely critical that you get to the bottom of this!
Just curious, why didn't you mount the plate directly to the table? Don't need no stinking vise.
I have the same question.
Seems to me that a couple of paralells and get it close with a square and you would be golden.
Yes... this. Coulda indicated and shimmed the plate deadnuts.
2 in one day what a treat!
Adam, I have a strong desire for a 1", 2" or perhaps 3" camel-back straight edge (unmachined) for use as a paper-weight/ornament. It would need to say Windy Hill, Rucker, or (best) Abom79. Having one of those on my desk would be so cool! Mentioned this sentiment to Keith and he made positive noises..... I think some pingers could be made here. You have a lot of fans.
I’ve had machines tilt as the table moves in x. It was a combination of the gibs and the table being worn in one area. It was an old horizontal mill from Cincinnati. It would drop and raise about .03” really bad lol.
Spitze! mach weiter so!!👍👍👍
Thanks for fantastic content. I have learned so much. One question, I was wondering why you didn’t just clamp them all down to the table directly in a long row. You could have done the face and then edge of all of them in one cut (one for the face and one for the edge) and then done each perpendicular face in a number of other cuts, but without having to move anything. After that, you could line up your “true” edge on the fixture plate for the other 90 degree edge. Anyway, just my thoughts (from someone with virtually no experience! - not trying to teach the expert anything, just curious).
I nice big mag chuck would be great for those. Would it not?
Good work Adam.
You have the coolest toys ever mate
.. love them
Would it be better physics to spin the fixture 180 degrees? Utilize the cutter/cutting force to keep the part solidly against the fixture pins? Is there a risk of the part moving the way it is set up now? Cut in y-axis first, then in the x-axis.
I realize you probably don't want to take the time but I would completely recheck your setup before I would reface the top . There is a reason for everything.
You said fixture plate checked dead "0" . Ether your method of checking it was falty or there is flaw in your setup. There is a reason . There always is .
If I remember right he mounted the cast iron fixture on a steel plate. If there is a difference in the coefficient of expansion between the two materials it could introduce a bow or other movement.
That fixture plate can be easily machined again, whether in my mill or shaper.
true, it can be remachined, but every time it's remachined it gets thinner and less rigid, less mass, too.
@@Abom79 I ground a pair of end mills a rougher and a finisher . The part in inspection showed the finisher cut with a .003" taper . The inspector suggested I grind it with a taper to correct it . I figured there must be a reason . When I sharpened the rougher it had enough stock on it to put it on the low limit which added .005" additional stock for the finisher . I reset the cutter blades and ground it to the high limit . The next piece cut dead straight . There ways is a reason . Are you going to reface it every time you use it ?
Hubble and the flec of paint!
Hubble trouble explained by Curious droid.
th-cam.com/video/OqZ68VYMRgE/w-d-xo.html
Perhaps a dumb question but would marking the fixture plate as to precisely where and how it was held improve the repeatability to where a sacrificial skim cut is not required ? Same face facing towards the operator,etc ?
Since the vice gets taken off the mill from time to time it would probably get you close but nothing beats a quick 1/10mm skimpass since the machine might settle due to the weather etc.
Part of me is hoping you take yours to Lance the next time you go and surface grind it.
I would bet the issue with the tilt had to do with the vise or other setup rather than the plate itself
It would be interesting to see if clamping forces distort the plate. All steel is a spring.
I doubt it at that level
@@mayshack Iron is an element. "Cast iron" is just another alloy of steel. Look it up.
@@mayshack There are endless different alloys of steel you can make, depending on the proportions of iron, carbon, and sometimes other elements, that you use. 'Cast Iron' is kind of a misnomer. It is not pure iron because it contains a relatively high proportion of carbon. It is actually very similar to 'high-carbon steel', only with a bit more silicon. Therefore cast iron falls on that spectrum of alloys you can make with iron. Cast iron is pretty stiff, which is why its used, but it does it still undergo some elastic deformation? Metallurgist or machinist, you still need to know this stuff.
@@mayshack The term steel is pretty crude, and tells you very little about the material properties. Mild steel and high speed steel are both "steel", but they have very different properties. So does electrical "steel", and stainless "steel", and Hadfield "steel", and chromoly "steel" , and so on...... Mild steel & wrought iron: more alike than some steels. The word is pedantic and trivial.
@@mayshack I'm afraid that you are the pedant. The original comment said "I wonder if that poodle can swim", to which you replied "it's a terrier". Totally irrelevant.
So often I assume my tooling is accurate without confirmation. Compound variables really do need that extra attention to detail.
Could temperature variations upset the face for trueness?
Wouldn’t it have been quicker to rotate the fixture in the vice and see if it made any difference?
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاتة
الله يعطيك العافيه وطول عمر اللهم امين ❤👍👌👐
uhm as a machinist at 4:14 i am confused if it's flat and precisly flat ?? why don't u remove the parallel screw it harder and set the flatness by indicate it , that's how i do i t with my worksets to avoid these kinda problem because even if you'r perfectly flat , if you use parallels to make it flat it won't be with some stuff on it or dust it can easily get 0.02 (metric) that's why i use it in a device just without touching anything then just to hold it and indicate it to make it flat and parallel to the table in X and it workedd all the time , but again i enjoyed your videos and still enjoys it today , continue the work :)
This right here! And too many parallels, I work in a machinist field too and they always say never stack parallels or just clamp the fixture to the table and indicate in. I've never heard of re-machining a surface that you "know" to be flat.
Great one. Would like to have one like that.
very good video..thanks for your time
couldn't you have turned the fixture plate over and milled the bottom parallel with the nicely finished top, rather than the reverse?
Do you check the table runout on the mill also, before you start facing off the runout on your fixture plate ?
You should take a trip to Montana to see Alec Steele. Would love to see you make some videos with him
Except Alec is going to be building that 7ft sword for the next 12 months. Haha...
Bring some hearing protection, that guy sure talks a lot.
@@siegfriedkettlitz6529 I think he's shipping it to Australia to another YT channel that simply drops stuff from a crane. They are going to drop it once they get it.
Great idea
How is that going to be flat clamping on the middle with nothing under it? NOT tying to talk smack man but I dont see a precision square be made how you are doing it? Please tell me how?
These should have been shipped to rob renzetti. Homeboy is in over his head.
The edges are on the plate enough for a reference.
Adam Boothe is a real cool cat and I would take machining lessons from him any day but this one was a head scratcher for me. Anything and everything moves, even with the smallest amount of pressure, go watch Rob Renzetti's surface plate installation.
I'm not a machinist so take everything I ask in that light. Adam was pretty sure the plate was flat, square & level when he made it. So wouldn't the problem be either in the attachment to the vice or the vice to the mill table? I dIon't recall him rechecking either. Maybe the quickest route to a workable solution was to just mill the plate level to the mill table? Nice work either way.
In the first video he trammed in the vertical head to the bed of the vice, so in principle, those should be parallel to each other. There are a lot of things that could have caused the fixture plate to go out of flat. What he should have done, but didn't show doing was indicating the fixture plate when he set it up in the vice to make sure that it was parallel. He would have caught the out of flatness he cut the first side of the squares.
I would make them oversized 0.010 or so per side (0.770 total thickness) that way if someone wanted to harden or surface grind them they could do so and dial them in to 0.750 finished thickness. A little inspection on the surface plate with some feeler gages on the first victim wouldn't hurt.
You're going to harden cast iron?
@@HairyNumbNuts takes a particular type of cast iron to do it though. What you usually see doesn't have enough carbon.
Have those castings been seasoned?
I'd put such a square in a sealed glass box, they are beautiful! Is it possible to coat it with iridium? ;)
Would you cut the 45 deg face too, I always find an accurate 45 is handy too and sometimes a small section is ample to work with when finding/marking centres of solid stock etc
I would have at least rechecked the bed and vise before cutting the pallet. I've had chips magically get under things even after wiping and checking.
Good thought! Cannot be too sure!
Were the castings stress relieved?
He gave every single square a deep tissue massage before mounting them to the mill to rid them of any stress.
How does thermal expansion affect the geometry of the cutter cutters ..... the dimensions deviate greatly from the desired geometry of the part? (как температурное расширение влияет на геометрию резцов фрезы.....размеры сильно уходят от нужной геометрии детали?)
Sir please tell me what is base metal where you attach the so many clam
Adam, was wondering if I could ask you a question about a vice some gave me at job site on Boca Grande. A customer of a painter asked me if i had a shop, n work bench, I told him yes, more for wood. He told me that customer's father had recently passed away, had some old tools, do want anything, or somehow he ended up with this vice. Know nothing about it, no year, just what is marked on the side. PRENTISS VICE CO. NEW YORK. BULL DOG'. No 92. Guessing around 30, 40, lbs. Don't have it mounted, but it's in fairly decent condition. The handle has a slight bend, it goes in, n comes out with ease, which tells me nothing is seriously wrong with it, but don't want to drill a 2 3/4" hole, diameter, n 3/8" depth hole in my work bench. I have never seen a vice that has a bottom like it. A large 3/4" stud, washer, a large matching washer as the bottom, then nut n washer as one. Have heard you mention this on your show. Great series as usual, but just curious, thanks for all you share. I am the onion guy. Thanks.
Here is the best info I can find on short notice: www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/looking-info-prentiss-vise-co-115317/
Short version is that they were a well regarded company that made good vises that were at the the time rather innovative. They also made vises under different names for other companies. They were bought up at some point in '48.
@@Nibleswick thanks for all the info. I might have a keeper. Thanks again.
Stacking fixtures will always show up a error, just like I was taught in car body work
TOO MANY LAYERS WILL BE TOO MANY PROBLEMS
with your fixture plate being off if get it level and turn it around by one it would out again i think that was the problem
Did Clark do a video of casting these? Can't seem to find it if he did.
will they be surface ground to final dimension?
If not, they are pretty much useless.
Adam.
This is only positive criticism but not sure why you didn’t clamp the castings directly to the table. Looks like your fixture has moved in the Vice. Love the videos. 😀👍
@@jnimitzch4738 and they didn't come out parallel either.. Keith had to true them on the grinder.
Was the 1 thou on the surface plate caused by z backlash?
thanx Adam
Perhaps a little nit-picky but it looked like your cutter forces were away from the clamp, potentially pulling the part out of the fixture.
Sometimes being a perfectionist is hard.
@@mayshack So... being a perfectionist isn't hard?
@@mayshack Then why say "Not Really"?
@@mayshack Apparently it was ;) I fell asleep moments after. I was merely trying to point out that the reason why Adam is a perfectionist is because his name and rep are on the line... and not in spite of it.
Love tool's they cast the name in. no chinese brands its not made by one person. quite a veriety of cast materiels in steels and irons . had to put a 2" 3/4 shank endmill in the bxa post cause that was the only insert that was hard enough to cut a golds gym dumbell musta been an old train axle cause a file would'nt cut this stuff . it's the grip rim for my er 40 collet chuck or put it flat on the mill table with the index holes in the rim. meat there for balancing
Hiya Adam
If the "table" is something that you take off, it means you have to mark the position...?
What is to be the accuracy claims for the finished squares ?
It won't be that great if only milled and not ground. A good precision square should be .0002 per inch or better. You will never get that with milling alone.
You go there!
Hi Adam, I learn every time I watch your videos. Awesome job. I am saving to buy one of those squares just to have in my shop. How do I order one of the ones that you machined.
Enjoyed!! Tight ,,Good Job!Cheers!!;-)!!
Adam, at @ of Part 1 you have them stacked on what I believe is your lift table. It looks like you have a T-slot surface with some kind of cloth. What is it really?
I think what you are referring to is the same surface in the photos at the end of this video. It is just a rubber mat that he has on the top of his lift table, kind of like a door mat.
@@Th3Su8 Thanks. I checked Harbour Freight and that's what it is
It seems to me that you would have to mill the first side again after milling the fixture plate?
He did
did you ever find out what caused the 5 thou problem i watched you make that plate on shaper
maybe he needs to scrape-in the slide and ways of his shaper like his friends were doing on that 36in cincy.
Thanks
Whats happened to viewers mail I really enjoyed that mate
Looking great, I really liked the time-lapse part. Couldn't you have added another 15 min or so for the edges? Or are you just trying to keep us in suspense? It's a shame about that fixture plate, but that's what it's for.
Any reason you didn't use a surface grinder to finish out or was it not critical?
I would imagine a couple of reasons. 1. I don't think Adam has a surface grinder, and 2. these parts are meant for hand scraping for double awesome tolerances.
@@phildcrow Possibly true on not having a surface grinder but i can tell you at least from the one i used to run, we held .0001" tolerances for Caterpillar on ours. Way better than any milling machine for flatness callouts.
@@phildcrow And I must be ignorant of this "double awesome tolerance " you speak of. I cannot find it anywhere in my machinist handbook. Can you reference that for me. My 15+ yrs machining hasn't afforded me the opportunity of working with that one yet. Thank you in advance.
From Ill. Elastic Deflection
A large cast iron section will easily bend when a load is applied, or when weight is added, or may even bend under its own weight. So often and in so many ways does elastic deflection occur, that it is easily mis taken for instability of the iron itself. Deflection may be minimized through design and support, but never completely eliminated. In some instances, as the reader will observe with the two-footed gage (page 2 6 )
deflection is not necessarily detrimental to accuracy, since the amount of deflection is almost perfectly constant, given like conditions. In the case of the extremely rigid 48 inch [1219 mm] master surface plate, a small amount of deflection still occurs, and will be a temporary limiting factor in the attainable accuracy of the plate.
It is important to recognize that, with every step in the attainment of accuracy, the problem of elastic deflection is always present. This fact will continually be emphasized throughout the book. Copied from Moore’s “Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy”.
@@davidgibson6909 You must be lots of fun at parties. If you truly can't tell the difference between jest and honest conjecture, hand-scraped tolerances are ±2 ten-thousandths of an inch per foot for squareness and flatness. For most home machinists, hand scraping is the only viable method to achieve these tolerances.
What is the intro song called?
UYARD by Dem th-cam.com/video/XkckYCVF4Os/w-d-xo.html
@@chrispriest5065 thank you🤙💙
The video ended too soon.
Annoying that the plate was out so you had to rework all those parts. Guess that is why it is always important to check your work as you go, saves time in the long run. One thing I have learned is never Assume anything unless you want trouble!!
are these going to be scraped in, or ground?
@@VGScreens not really
@@VGScreens it's not very precise the way it is. would make a good scraping project though.
Excellent Work , Thanks Adam
The second side would have been parallel to the first side after you milled the set up plate flat.
Weld dot com shop tour?