How to Propagate and Multiply Raspberry Plants
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Propagating raspberries is so easy that you don't even have to wait for roots! This is how I propagate and multiply my thornless raspberry plants. Last year we potted up 100 of them this way in less than an hour.
Go to the website: propagateplant...
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![How to Start Growing Raspberries [Compilation]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0YYir4xHCQg/mqdefault.jpg)
After seeing this guy's energy, I need to get me some raspberries
That’s my secret 😂
Too much coffee, Red Bull, or something else.
@@GeezerBoy65 Hey, nope none of that. He just enjoys doing these for us. Education and some knowledge that comes from experience. I'll be doing this so that we'll have a couple more raspberry patches growing for decades
I’m watching this bc I plan on saving and preserving the last of Grandma’s raspberry bushes. Years ago the farmer next door over sprayed and killed all but a couple. Grandma had 15 children and countless grandkids lol. Red raspberry jam was EVERYONES Christmas gifts and I intend on continuing the tradition! ❤
That's what it's all about!
He's so excited :)
Yes, almost feel tired just listening to him 😜
That’s the energy I need. LOVE THIS GUY.
And he just can't hide it
I am just starting out with blueberries and raspberries. Your video was very informative! Fantastic job showing all the stages & I love your enthusiasm. Way to honor your Mother in law too!! Thanks!
That's what I love most about these. They came from family. I love the stories that come with plants.
Never to much coffee and the enthusiasm is contagious, I love it. 😁😁😁🤣🤣🤗🤗😁😁🙃🙃🤔😊😊😊
LOL, glad you enjoy it!
Thanks !! Just just planted some raspberry and blueberries .
Great video about raspberry propagation. I've grown them for about 35 years from hand-me-down starts from my parents patch that they planted over 50 years ago. This year we got about ten gallons of berries from four ten foot long rows. They need plenty of water and they like compost. I rake maple leaves over the ground each fall and it seems to really help. If I could suggest a follow-up video, it would be cutting out the old canes and pruning and tieing up the new canes for next year's berries. I have a feeling many people get poor production because the cut the one year old canes out that would have produced fruit in year 2.
Good idea, thanks Ken!
Ken Slattery Hi Ken. We’re in middle of Minnesota. Where are you located? I know people who mow down their entire raspberry patch every fall and they always come back with heavier production of berries, it seems. What do y’all think? Experience this??
@@sheilasmith1109 This is the fall crop.
Most red raspberries produce on the first year canes (primocanes) starting in late summer, starting at the tips and working their way back down one side-shoot at a time.
This usually only gets a quarter to a half of the way doen the main cane by the time frost hits and the plant goes dormant.
If frosts do not kill these dormant canes they will resume producing new side shoots down the rest of the cane the following spring.
These spring raspberries are often not as high-quality as the crop on the new primocanes, usually because cool damp springs lead to significant fungal disease on the fruits.
The nice thing about most red raspberries is that you can just mow them down each fall and get a nice big high-quality crop all summer and fall until frosts end the harvest season.
If you get good quality spring berries then it's worth leaving some of the canes from winter standing, maybe one every 8-10 inches to keep good airflow, but if they seem to get pretty damaged you are going to be better off chopping everything that fruited last season and only leaving the canes that have not yet flowered at all. There are always a few from the late fall.
That's all there is to it, really.
I don't know how ours will be so I am leaving just a few and making sure they are really spaced out but for the most part I will cut out the previously-fruited canes so that I can get a bigger summer harvest this year.
Last year was the very first year in the ground and it was insane, I am growing the Joan Jett variety and it is pretty fantastic.
@@slizzardman Thanks for sharing that, Joshua! Where’s a good place to purchase those young plants?
@@sheilasmith1109 I would google. Burpee has 5 plants for 23 bucks + shipping i am sure, that is pretty good. Personally I get most plants from Stark Bros Nursery or Grower's Solution. Nourse farms is probably the best for berries and is cheaper than Burpee.
If you plant them about 4-5 feet apart in spring you will get a bunch of root suckers by fall that you can relocate to rapidly expand your patch, just watch some youtube videos on how to do this. Red raspberries are highly invasive, those root suckers will not die so don't worry lol... if you do this 1-2 months before first expected frost you will see explosive growth and production the next spring.
I had 3 varieties, 3 plants each, that I just left out in a 25 gallon fabric bag from fall to over the winter (central va) and by springtime I had like 15 plants of Joan J, maybe 8 Royalty, and 6-7 of a third type which is apparently only a floricane fruiter (second year canes only aka "summer bearing")..
I have a 24ish foot bed that I planted them in, 8 feet per variety. Joan J was in two rows, 1 plant every 12-18 inches in April with 2-2.5 feet between the rows, the others were a single row.
My bed was just an 8 inch thick layer of compost from our stall waste (wood shavings and horse poop) from our 5 horses, was about 7 month old compost that was never turned. I did give the plants fish emulsion twice, once at planting and once a month later but that was it.
Royalty got almost completely obliterated by disease, like a few canes are coming back over the winter but I think I will trash them (putting them on a woods-line and wishing them luck). The third variety got hit hard by japanese beetles and a little blight but I do have some decent canes so the jury is out on that one.
Joan J grew like nothing happened, literally shrugged it all off. I have tons of japanese beetles (will hit the yard hard with nematodes and milky spore this year) but even that couldn't slow them down much.
The early crop was damaged by fungus due to exceptionally wet weather, but the Primocane crop far exceeded expectations, I mean from july to November there were several handfuls of ripe berries every single day, flavor was excellent and they are totally thornless!
Canby thornless ,I had them years ago , as soon as I saw them is knew what they were . The absolute best !
Thanks, I'll have to look them up!
From Canby Oregon?
Can this variety grow in zone 9b? I’m looking for a thornless raspberry that grows in my zone.
@@jorgemartinez-jv8vx I'm sure it will do fine there.
Yes he is, The Raspberry Hunter, good info !! Daughter wanted to know how to propagate raspberries from my plant, I thought cutting but found out it spreads and pull deep from the root.
You must be the most enthusiastic person on youtube! I love it :)
Great tip on propagating raspberry plants too - look forward to trying it out...
I planted 24 raspberry plants last year, and have at least a hundred now from doing this lol. Thank you
Great I got 4 different colors of raspberries and want to start some new plants on a fence. That's for the tips I do have some have started from the canes touching the ground and rooting.
Thank you for the info...I can't get over how clean your hands stay!
It’s a talent
I call my nails this spring “Dirt French Tip” 😂😂
I love berry propagation. Your videos are so great. The knowledge you share is so helpful and useful.
Glad you like them!
The propagation method Mike is discussing it called suckering. Raspberries and blackberries both propagate through suckering in the same fashion. Which means both grow off the main parent root. The sucker will T off the parent root and breach the ground. If you’re looking for more root structure try digging back 6 inches from where the sucker breaches the ground. Cheers!
My Raspberry plants grow to be about 5-10 feet tall and produce like crazy and I get so many plants I have to sell them at local farmers markets. Otherwise I would have to mow over them
And I'll bet they sell like crazy!
@serendipidus1 Make sure you renew your soil by adding
homemade compost or some type of rich soil mix from the store.
Right on this guy knows what he's talking about and clearly showed me the way to go with my raspberry canes, as I have untold amounts of new shoots stretching all over my allotment and pathways, so thanks a lot buddy and Keep it Raspberry..Regards...Rand
Sounds like you could start your own you pick berry patch.
Thanks for the tutorial...very helpful. We have a transplanted raspberry plant from last summer that is sending out all kinds of shoots and your video will help us deal with them.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Mike! I’m going to do just that with my raspberries! 😁.
They multiply like crazy!
This year I think I was pulling up shoots a little too early (weren't woody enough in at the base). I also didn't keep them in full shade. Our raspberries get about 2-3 hours of full sun at midday which is enough to roast any plant that's not ready. I think next year, when the main plants are substantially bigger, I'm probably going to propagate any shoot that I don't want and give 'em to friends. Mmm fresh raspberries.
Subscribed. Cuz it’s not boring. Love the energy
Awesome! Thank you Anastacia.
Thanks for the info. Just planted my first raspberry bush last week and now I know to look out for runners. Mine is in a pot so I'll have to make sure to get ready for multiple pots lol. Not allowed to plant in the ground renting so thanks!!
Oh yeah, runners galore!
Like the video as usual. Have only seen them grow at a friends house. Pinky looks great. Glad it has healed so well. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the video! I have 2 small plants from last year that are sending out little baby plants. Love your energy - will definitely follow your page
Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed the video!
F
Great info Mike ,You are a great inspiration for people . I like to add what I did. I made my rows a full 8 foot apart in preparation toward getting all those suckers for transplanting in the spring. So I found they pop out really easy in fluffy soil. So in between those rows I Prepaired it that way. Left over potting material and mountains of leaves etc. I did this previously with another patch and honesty I did not even have to dig them. Just gently pulled them up and clipped a few long roots. Very proud of how it all worked out.
Yep, they come up real easy and will more than likely grow well if it has even a little bit of root attached. Glad it's all working out for you.
When I was a preschooler we had Raspberries in Minnesota they were our family’s pride and joy. I want to try growing them in Southwest Missouri! I love raspberries but I don’t know anyone who grows them. I must try these!
They're awesome!
In my own experience raspberries multiply so easily from their rhizomes that they quickly become quite invasive. The autumn/everbearing yellow/golden variety seem moreso invasive than the red summer fruiting varieties, & the red ones taste better. Bees LOVE them in flower.
These raspberries are so prolific and taste great! You're right, they spread like crazy. We planted grass around them and mow about 10 foot on either side and that keeps them in their row.
I keep mine in a container because I can’t afford them invading my small garden. But what I have produces quite enough fruit and I love it!
They sure do spread. Glad you've found a setup that works for you.
@@MikeKincaid79 now I feel inspired to dig some of these up to create another pot of raspberries 😉
Thanks for sharing how to start these, I didn’t know they came thornless, that’s wonderful, will have to search out a plant nursery find one of these, the ones we have here in the sw Va/Nc area all have thorns, ouch already got thorn in finger in am picking some.
Yeah, the thornless are the way to go in my opinion.
you are the man, little bro, im learning so much from you, thank you for sharing with us.
You got it Melvin!
You're always happy, enjoying your planting, make beautiful place, good work, Mike !😉👍🪴🦋🐝🏞
Thanks 👍
Mike is the man!!! Thank for the good advice buddy. Ours made lots of runners in the last year and a half and i want to know how to propagate them. We are creating a permaculture domaine in France where all species are welcome along with lots of trees berries and watering points for animals.
When do you replants the potted babies Mike?
I let them grow strong in a pot for one summer and then plant the following spring.
With his energy and enthusiasm he would be good with children teaching
I love teaching my kids
I think i might try and transplant a few wild plants from the woods to the fenceline of my yard. I have, a plan!
That's all you need!
My thornless black raspberry to lean over and the tips do start growing like blackberries, and send up the root ones like you show...
Thanks for sharing that. I'll have to do some experimenting with it.
I want to propagate my sister’s Tayberry (rasp-blackberry hybrid) for several reasons. Thank you for the video. “And there’s another one!”
Good luck!
You got the answer I came here for
Same… I’m getting ready to go dig up some wild raspberry shoots ❤️
hey mike: love those berries. i always buy berries, their so good for ya. this year was a different story because the prices were just out of reach for how many ya get per carton. golly, can you get any more excited? nicely explained video. i never grew them but i always loved eating them, except for store-bought strawberries with no taste. later, carmine p.
My blackberries did that too so I put them in a plastic tub planter and that kept them from spreading out of control.
I put some in a tub and within a year, they rooted through the drainage holes and into the soil. The following spring I had blackberries coming up around the pot from the soil, lol. Be careful.
Great video; thanks! Btw, they're probably Heritage variety.
That's exactly how my blackberry is its a pile of bushy mess!! But they are so delicious and full of berries every year!!
you couldn't have explained this better.
Thanks Dad!
Start propagating those ‘’yummers’’ up....you know we all want to get one....
I've got a lot of work ahead of me, haha
Healthiest raspberry that I have ever seen
Thanks! They are wonderful.
your videos continue to help me, I think you've solved like 10+ of my problems over the years including my finger tendon recovery. thanks for being such a great guy and sharing your knowledge and experience brother. hope to make my family fresh raspberry pancakes next year
That's so great to hear. Thanks for sharing that with me and I wish you the best!
Thank you for the advice. I alleviate it. You seem to know about raspberries, maybe you can answer this question. Currently I have 9 plants plus all the ones that come around those during the I have 2 good size plants I bought last year & the others I've had for 2-3 yrs.so far the only ones I've gotten berry's from are the 2 I just got last year. I can't say I git very many but there were probably 9 groups of maybe 6-12 berries in each group. I've read that each bush is both male & female . I even planted a variety of flowers by b them to help pollinate them. Why would I only have gotten Berries on the 2 newest & never even one off all the rest? What else can I do? I'm slowly trying to get enough so I can start making ham again. Than I s in advance for any & all help
I have a Black Raspberry, that propagates like a BlackBerry. If I want more of them I just plant the end of the new canes when they get long enough to put them in a small planter. Then just keep it moist until the winter rains come, I just leave it like that all winter long and by spring it has rooted, and then I just cut it away from the mother plant. And will be ready to plant in the ground. Plus I have given several of these starts away. And they put out the main picking and they will do a small picking by late summer, and it will be on the new canes. I'm not sure what variety of Black Raspberry's they are, I was given this from a friend of mine, some 35 years ago.
I just did that same method today with a thornless blackberry I have. By the way, your rose cuttings are starting to put on new growth!
@@MikeKincaid79 Great job Mike. Mine are just putting out new buds, and as soon as they bloom I'm post a picture, so you will know what they will look like.
Looking forward to it Richard!
Your Black Raspberry that looks like a Blackberry is probably a Blackberry!
I bought one. It's called imperial black or black imperial.
That's cool I didn't know that some of them were thornless. Should have known since blackberries come in both. Never said I was that intelligent. Haha
Yeah, the thornless are awesome!
I have Golden raspberries. I am looking forward to pulling up some new sucker starters and getting even more Golden raspberries on their way in my garden. They are hard to get around here in Oregon. I am also looking forward to selling some to the loco's near me. Thanks on the tip on how to get new starters going.
No instructions on propogating or multiplying. Dig up the runners and plant them where you want them.
Thx! Have been looking for a good raspberry propagating video.
There's other ways too. I'll probably do more about these plants in the future.
This was so informative. Answered all my questions and more. I have black and raspberries next to each other and didn't know how to grow/thin/etc
Glad you learned from the video.
@@MikeKincaid79 lol u have such passion
I love rasberries
How fabulous! All my questions answered in one short video! Subscribed with the bell on!! 😃 Thank you!
Awesome! Thank you!
awesome thankyou. My raspberry got so big and spread out so much since last season when I planted it, but
no raspberries yet. Gonna mulch and compost for winter and hopefully I will get some next season
Eventually you'll have more than you know what to do with! These things grow fast.
I freeze the clean dry raspberries, est them later in winter😊
We do the same. Have freezer bags full of them.
Just ordered some two year old raspberry bushes, I’ll have to see how big they are and consider putting them in parts temporarily in a location where they get some shade. Thanks for the info!
Glad it was helpful. Good luck!
Thanks for your tips Sir .
Perfect. I have a new raspberry and blackberry trellis thanks to u.
Right on!
Thanks for the video! Glad to see your videos taking off, old subscriber here, different name
Thanks! Every spring the channel takes a jump but this year it's really climbing.
This was an excellent method! Thanks!
Thanks again for all the wonderful things that you teach us
You’re very welcome Renee
Thank you very much. Most helpful. My main raspberry plant has sent out a baby plant in the same raised bed, just like the one you carefully dug up. My question is: can I just leave the baby plant where it is?
You sure can
Great! Thank you very much. 😁 @@MikeKincaid79
Awesome video. I still want to get some.
I've got a bunch that will be ready in the spring.
I pulled mine w/o roots ;-) hope they don't die!
I suppose time will tell.
I live in Southern Ontario, Canada, growing zone 5b. From your description, it looks like you and I have the same raspberries. I have had mine for 40+ years and I have shared new suckers with many friends. Mine bear fruit only on the last year's canes. I prune out the canes that have fruited this summer as soon as the harvest is over. I plant to re-locate the existing plants to the opposite chain link fence, so my neighbour can harvest them from his side without having to care for them much, while I continue looking after them. I usually trim about 1 foot off the top of the new canes. But this Summer, I cut off the top half. Some canes were just leaf-less green sticks. Within a month, the leaves started growing on them. So I know they are still alive. Should I transplant them to the other fence in early September or should I wait until May?
I’d do it now so the roots have a chance to start getting established. I’ll bet we do have the same variety. Great berries!
I’m going to do this in the next couple of days. Got starts from a neighbor 3 years ago who got hers from her mother in law many years ago.
Wondering if you have any suggestions on what kind of soil to put in the transplant pot.
Any potting soil will work. Fertilize with a slow release fertilizer. I like to use higher nitrogen fertilizer until I get them in ground.
Thank you so much for this video! I've been trying for a couple of years attempting to transplant raspberries for my friend to enjoy and this one makes the most sense. Hopefully the suckers I dig up will stay healthy and not die on me.
They will, just place them in shade while they get established in pots.
@@MikeKincaid79 Sounds like the shade is the key for the transplants.
I would love some cuttings! I live in Illinois
I need to focus on getting some of these going. Gotten a lot of requests for them. If I do sell them, it'll be through Ebay.
Thanks for the great information Mike. I live in Australia and have just bought one each of Heritage, Autumn Bliss (both primocanes) and Chilliwack (floricane) raspberry varieities from the nursery. I am excited to think that they can be propagated so readily.
Oh yeah, they’ll pop up everywhere.
I just planted some myself for the first time, Chilliwack, Golden Yellow, and also a Nelly Kelly. When I mentioned it to my neighbor he looked horrified - 'they'll spread everywhere etc' - from South Australia
@@MikeKincaid79
Thanks for the video!
Is there a way for our family to get some starts of your raspberry variety? We are in California and would love to get some thornless red raspberries and your variety sounds pretty great!!
Great video, thank you! After it's established in the pot, should i plant it in the ground? Or can i leave it to grow in a pot?
They really should be in the ground to perform their best but you can grow them in pots.
Plant raspberry s in September
You don't get too excited much, do you. Ha, I enjoyed this video. I have two different raspberry cuttings on order.
Enjoy your raspberries Mike!
Hey Mike, I've got the black raspberry and it roots like the BckBerry plant ,by dripping over and the tip of the plant taking root. My question is how do you transplant the black raspberry plant?. I've got great plants I just want them where l want them. I enjoy your show very informative Thanks Bill
Right on! I'll have to try it. You should be able to cut it away from the parent plant and just plant the new one where you want it.
I have a question for you please , I live in Canada , Alberta ,I have boyne rasperries plants, just after harvested I cut the old canes and the weak ones on Agost 31/22 . I would like to know if I did right thing, please let me know thanks, also I would like to know if boyne raspberries fruit two times, in summer and fall.
it's been in the shade here, getting plenty of light
I thought they were weeds. Do you also have a video about strawberry? Thanks, love your videos.
Thanks Liv! Here's your video: th-cam.com/video/RxMule_iC1g/w-d-xo.html
Amazing video Mike.Thanks for the inf💃🙌
You're welcome, Nancy!
I like a man who freaks out over raspberries.
lol
Good job
Mike, dig some of those up and send them to me! Please!!!!
Do you have an e-mail?
@@MikeKincaid79 of course I do. Add cc in front of my last name @ gmail.com
Great video it was very informative
how long will those raspberry fruit after being propagated?
These are floricane raspberries, so they fruit on second year old wood.
10/10 video!
So you don't need to put them in water first like some other plants for stimulating root growth?
Last year I tried doing what you showed here with random new shoots, except some I put in water and brought inside and some I planted directly into the ground. Both methods failed! I didn't try potting and keeping out of the heat. I will try that in a few days with new shoots that are popping up among the grass, hopefully it works.
These already had roots so pot them right up in soil and keep in a shady location until rooted in well.
Great video, I want to ask something, what is the best period of the year for rooting and planting these runners?
I was wondering the same thing. I live in zone 5 and we have all 4 seasons here.... sometimes all in the same week!
Hey Mike! Great video, can't wait to try this myself! While in the topic, do you cut back your raspberries or just let them do their own thing?
We planted them in a 50 foot row and then planted grass on wither side about 12 foot away from the row on each side. So all we have to do is mow the grass once a week and it keeps all the berries in their row.
@@MikeKincaid79 right but then with the spent canes do you cut them all out each year?
Oh, got ya. Yes, we cut the spent canes out and then tie the new canes up in bunches.
@@MikeKincaid79 Thanks man, I've tried to look up good videos about pruning but can't find many that agree with each other so I determined it doesn't matter too much and ill just wait until I know for a fact the cane is spent then just cut out as I see them.
There's no right way to do it, in fact, my mother in law has a row of these that's about 2 to 3 feet thick with t-posts and wire running along each side. She leaves the old and new canes and just makes sure they come up between the wire. Her method of leaving the old canes actually helps provide support to the new canes. I've thought about doing it this way but I like the thin and tidy row.
Love the enthusiasm
I had a little too much coffee this day, lol
@@MikeKincaid79 or just the right amount ;) you on Instagram ?!
In Assam, India🇳🇪 It's grow up in Jungles 😁
Apologies but in the fray I didn't hear the exact type of raspberries these were. Can you please tell us what this was? Thanks!!! Great video!
Thanks! I'm not sure of the variety. They came from my mother-in-law and she's had them for decades.
Great video, just what I was looking for. When you pulled up that young raspberry plant, did you cut the tap root before you potted it up?
I see all your big raspberry plants are planted in the ground. Would they do well in a 14" pot?? Just how much room do the roots need to prosper without choking out the neighboring plants??? We have mild winters with some frost but seldom get huge freezes here in the Willamette Valley. so would a 14" pot be sufficient for three plants? Or does it need to to be single in a pot??
Raspberries will continue to spring up new growth from one plant. So if you plant one in a pot, you'll have 10 of them in that pot in a short time.
Great video
Thanks
Mike this video was so helpful! When can I give my raspberry suckers that I've potted to friends & family to plant in the ground?
I wait until I see roots coming down to the bottom holes in the pots.
How do you fertilize your raspberry plants. They look great. Do you prune them down to 4 feet?
Thanks Michele! I don't fertilize them. A few years ago, when we originally built this orchard, I put down 6 inches of a cow manure/wood shavings material from a local dairy farm. Then I put 6 inches of wood chips over that. Over the years, it has broken down into a beautiful soil with plenty of nutrients for years to come. If you don't have access to those materials, just use good old grass clippings and leaves ever year as mulch. You can supplement with a store bought fertilizer in the meanwhile if needed. We prune them down to 4 to 5 feet after tying them up in bunches every fall.
Hi I have mine in a container about 3 feet across they’ve been in the same container with the same sale for at least 10 years I’ve put on chicken pallet manure when I remember and feed them regularly I heard they were gross feeders and when you think about the amount of product they put out they must need a lot of food to make it all, I live in the north of England and I have had beautiful crops every year it’s the one time of year I can guarantee my grandson will come to visit has he adores them and I got sick to death of paying £2 for a small punnet ,
Love this guy.
Great info! Thanks from Utah.
Glad it was helpful!
Funny enough, I'm not using this for my garden, but to build up a winter foliage supply for my leaf insect and stick insect colonies!
I was given several raspberry canes in April. I have eaten several delicious berries already. I was expecting transplant shockand no fruit but they are fruiting!
Raspberries are pretty resilient. Good for you!
Thank you for the great video. Was wondering if you can plant raspberries in a raised bed?
You can but it won't prevent them from growing under the structure unless it's fairly deep. How deep? Not sure but don't want to invest the time and money to find out, lol. My Mother-in-law has her raspberries in a raised bed of railroad ties and they are still growing under them and popping up everywhere. Hope that helps.
@@MikeKincaid79 you are right, it is a waste of time trying to contain them to a bed, they just wanna roam ! The raccoons got into mine this year, good job I had a decent harvest, I had plenty to share, however, they did rather wreck some of the older canes so I think this is the year for major pruning and clean up and possibly starting a new patch elsewhere. Could you touch on some of the different types of raspberries for us, eg.. ever-bearing, fall, yellow etc., thanks, Take care and stay safe, Sandie from Ontario Canada.
I have five varieties of raspberries. Hard to tell which variety the suckers come from. :)
What does one do with the raspberries over the winter if winters get way below zero at times and heavy snow if they are in pots
The snow doesn't bother them. As far as below zero temps, I'm not sure how cold hardy they are. We live in an area that doesn't usually get below 10 degrees F. For the most of the winter it hangs around in the 30's and 40's.