Presumed Innocent Episode 4 Recap / Review & Theories | Planted Evidence?!
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Dan Jules & Bag Face break down Episodes 4 of Apple TV's Presumed Innocent called "The Burden". How are you enjoying this show? Do you have any theories? Drop them below to be featured in future videos.
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My wild theory: is it was…. RAYMOND!
He and Caroline were having an affair and then Rusty came along and she called it off with Raymond and continued with Rusty. He wanted revenge on them both. Raymond kept Rusty close and trusting of him until Caroline was murdered and Rusty asked him to be his defence lawyer. Raymond will fuck him over in court at the last minute with a ‘it was me all along’ mic drop 🎤.
Ohhhh boy this is awesome 🔥 🔥
Na 😂
Sounds really really dumb but again you might be right ,
Plus: He could also be the „guy from work who scared her“… 🤔
Kyle did it after Rusty leaves Carolyn’s home. Michael’s pictures put Kyle at the scene of the murder. His video also capturers a shadowy headshot with long curls moving at the scene outside Carolyn’s window. I believe this is Barbara stalking Carolyn. After Rusty leaves, I think Barbara confronts Carolyn and a heated argument ensues. Kyle enters the house to support his mom but his volatile nature, like his father, explodes on Carolyn and kills her. DNA found at scene end of E4 is not Rusty’s. It’s Kyle. Recall also he suggested Rusty cop a plea of manslaughter knowing 8 years is better than life in prison. The murder scene was probably concocted by Barbara who had access to Rusty’s files and pc. My two cents.
You are in the running to win the shirt, awesome theory!
That was one of my theories, too, as their DNA could possibly pass for each other.
This needs to be for Non- book Readers ONLY. I already posted a Theory here, and on Reddit which a Book Reader confirmed that I was right. I felt like such a dick for Posting a major spoiler, as I already figured out the backstory (Carolyn withholding evidence from Rusty and the court), being fearful of another "man" she had to work some cases with, etc. this LAST Episode gave us a great Flashback that provides much support, pointing the Motive in the direction I had a gut feeling about. And ANYONE who has read that Book shouldn't be Posting a theory (this simply seems fair to me!).
Fuck Thing "1" is picking up credibility with me as Fuck Thing "2" continues to fuck up every single time he opens his mouth to the Media, and Fuck Thing "1" calls him OUT on it💡🤗💕✌️
So too the E5 storyline is adding tidbits pointing to Kyle: Barbara frantically scrubbing down his bike, Rusty’s “interrogation” of Kyle raising the specter of what might happen to Kyle if the legal system came down on him; Rusty removing Kyle’s bike from the trash and stuffing it into his trunk presumably to have it examined for tiny blood DNA (Carolyn’s) that may have seeped into the bike’s joints; Raymond’s quip that he’s not kidding about Kyle as a suspect; and the clincher for me, the ferocity of Kyle’s curveball which is supposed to be used as an off speed pitch😉
Here's what happened;
Tommy found out about the affair in pursuit of Carolyn, confronted her and threatened her to hide evidence from Rusty, or else he would blow up Rusty's marriage and career! Tommy was that unknown sperm sample, which Rusty discovered after the fact that Carolyn hid from him (explains his gut hunch to visit that old man in jail in exchange for Tommy's name).
When Rusty Lunged on Tommy, that's when Tommy grabbed some of Rusty's skin under his nail, that he later transferred to Carolyn's body.
Everyone thought it was Carolyn's weird son, or Kyle possibly. Only, neither would have known how to tie her up.
When Tommy questioned Michael (Carolyn's son) if she named the guy at work that she was scared to death of, the look in Tommy's eyes confirmed it.
He was the unknown sperm in the other victim tied up like Carolyn. Carolyn couldn't stand to see Rusty's life upended, why she withheld that vital piece of evidence in discovery.
Carolyn was so fearful of Tommy that she broke the law, went against everything she stood for fearing Tommy would make good on his threats to end Rusty's marriage and career! Little did she know Tommy was stalking her and came into her home to kill her after Rusty left.
Motive, opportunity, it's all Tommy!
Great theory!!
I've been thinking the same thing! Tommy!
Yes! I thought this also! Tommy did it!
This is great!! I think it’s Barbara. Talking to her boss-Roseanne Arquette is a big name to just have 1 scene & 2 lines-I think she’ll testify. The piece B sold 5 wks ago she sold to Carolyn & either delivered it the next day herself or got her address from the sale & went over the next morning. Maybe 8-9:45-maud found her at 10.
@@marielollini9763 oooh I like your reasoning!
It would be wild if Tommy did it and he swapped Rusty’s DNA with his own, so it all matches ‘Rusty’.
Tommy is my bet, but is it too obvious? 🤔
@@Jordynmarie25 we all hope you're right
I think so too but it is obvious
And I agree with you guys 100% on the best line of the episode hands down. I was thinking about it for a while after he said it. It was profound.
Yeah, that was a great line. I think the writing on the show is a lot better than it seems to be getting credit for.
After watching the last Episode, I no longer think it's Tommy! It has to be Kyle! I saw the 1990 Presumed Innocent Movie on Prime Video where Rusty had 1 son, Kyle was like 8 or 9 years old and Barbara was the killer. I posted on Reddit that Tommy was the killer and a Book Reader accused me of reading the Book! That rules Tommy out, as methinks they switch the killer with each version to keep viewers surprised! It's likely that Rusty took Bunny's files home since he Co-chaired the case with Carolyn. Kyle refused to speak in therapy, asked his dad to take a plea, Kyle's DNA would likely match Rusty's and Carolyn wasn't raped, it was pre-meditated to tie her up and torture her, the actual killing wasn't planned, a reaction likely to something Carolyn said while being tied up and tortured. It has to be Kyle, sadly 😢
Raymond is so good in The Night Of. That’s a must watch.
Sooo good
Bulletproof shirt-winning theory: BagFace’s cat is the murderer. We haven’t seen that munchkin in awhile amirite? Case closed
Hahahaha I love this! Sending it to him (it's because he's in Portugal) he comes home tomorrow
@@sceneinvadersget home safe BagFace. Hope the trip was rad & sorry your kitty was the killer. We should’ve known: intermittently on camera so damn cute without a permit, etc. Smooth criminal.
Hey guys! I’m still sticking with my Raymond theory. But one thing I noticed in this episode was Rusty knew the wife’s name was Laura, but how would he know it? Nobody says her name in the scene. I went back and re-watched it, so maybe they know each other previously. As for Raymond theory, perhaps he’s the guy Carolyn was scared of. They’re clearly trying to point to Tommy but I think he’s a red herring. Lastly, I have a feeling there’s something with wearing glasses being deceptive. Only Rusty and Raymond wear them - Rusty lies to his therapist the first time he wears them - and Raymond gets irritable with Rusty only after taking his glasses off in this ep. (Still working this one out lol)
@@matthewJay88 that's really interesting I like it
I think it was Rusty’s wife. She had knowledge of the original crime scene bc we already saw her going thru other crime scene photos without Rusty’s knowledge. She prolly found out they were involved again and sought to end it. She read about the other sperm sample and used it to her advantage. Skin cells were planted by prosecutors trying to beef up the case.
I think the therapist scene was just a narrative tool for later on 🤷🏽♀️
I can see that being the case
Just to be different, let’s say it’s the therapist. She has a close relationship with the wife. Maybe she likes her more than we’ve been led to believe.
Spicy I like it
Hi guys. Remember in the first episode we saw Rusty nervously cleaning his car steering wheel. Why would he do that ?👩⚖️
Very good question
The look that Tommy had when Michael was talking to him makes me think Tommy did it. His mom said “this man at work” 😂 so good, definitely motive
New theory ~ it was Delay.
He’s obsessed with facts, process, and indisputable evidence. He’s known for taking plea deals and he needs a solid conviction to solidify his reputation. Tommy’s a wild card who could lose the case for going rogue.
What better way to prove guilt than planting DNA without having it traced back to you? At least not directly?
ETA that Delay is a nickname; character is actually named Nico Della Guardia. Tommy is too obvious, and while I do like the Barbara theory, she was the murderer in the movie and the book.
I like this angle. Smart cookie
Love this
My wild theory: Raymond
My wild card: Rusty daughter for some reason.
Man since they Cancelled Constellation we better get a season 2 of Dark Matter there is so much they can still do with it.
@@tyizzle80 tell me about it 🤦♂️
Drop those theories, win a shirt!
I'm betting Caroline was having several affairs in the office to be promoted. My bet it is Rusty's wife
Hi, just found your channel through this video. I don’t have any kind of fleshed out theory, but I think that Tommy did it. Just get super creepy bad vibes from him… 🤷♀️ I’m probably wrong 😂 I’ve been following the Karen Read case from MA. Love this show! Thanks for covering it.
@@paranrmlgrl hey thanks for watching! Nice theory. Hope you watch our next video as well 😃
Another crazy theory: EUGENIA ! Perhaps Carolyn was bi-sexual and also had a relationship with Eugenia. Though Michael the son when asked said 'there's a 'man' at work who's beginning to scare her, that could have been Carolyn not wanting to reveal of her bi-sexuality'. Eugenia works at the same department so would likely know Bunny Davis' file and the way she was tied up. The fact she knew about Rusty and Carolyn, and didn't go to HR at any point suggests there might be an underlying reason for this...
Nice theory!
Initially I was thinking it was Raymond but why would he become his lawyer 🤔 so I’m going with the wife doing it and planting his skin under her fingernails .. there’s definitely something up with her .. and she was thinking about the bartender while fkn Rusty for sure then asked him was it the kind of sex he had with Carolyn!!
Awesome comment 👏👏👏
I've read the book and seen the movie, so I kind of know who the killer is. With that said, I'm still loving the show because of the performances. Jake (Rusty) is such a unique and captivating actor. I've already seen some changes that's why I said kind of know who the killer is, but they are doing such a great job at making everyone look sus that I'm still not close to being sure. I'm up to the point of feeling it could be anyone except that individual.😂 I'm enjoying this show so much that even if it is the same Individual from the movie, I wouldn't be disappointed at all.
I don’t think it will be the same killer. Everyone read the book and saw the film so if the killer was the same there would be no point. I think I know who the killer is but not in Rusty’s family
It’s Tommy
I’m going with either Rusty’s daughter or Caroline’s son. But I wonder who the son was talking about when he said his mom was scared of someone at work. I don’t think it’s Rusty she was referring to.
I totally agree 👍
Love your breakdowns and reactions! I am with you…I hate Tommy!
Thanks so much!
My theory is Rusty did it, but maybe it was an accident and Tom helped him cover it up. Don't ask me why, it's just a hunch
Nice theory!
There is literally NO ONE likeable in this show. At this point, I don't give a shit if he did it or not. He's a POS and I want him to go to jail.
@@DisappearingBoy2010 😂 😂 😂
I think there was one clue regarding manner of death that leads us to the killer but will keep it at that for now. I would like to see this miniseries also offer commentary on the injustice of the justice system and how easily someone could be wrongfully convicted.
Oh plz share start with spoiler alert but share! I think Barbara.
@@marielollini9763 well, only one person had access to the previous crime scene photos that were copied besides Rusty and only one character mentioned the importance of family above all else so that’s my suspect.
It’s Rusty. But he didn’t know he did it.
I thought the same
So Rusty mentions at some point while he was drinking the night of the murder that he was “off to the races…” That’s an old school AA way of saying “all bets are off; it’s lights out; etc.”
Could be nothing but could be something. Maybe he’s a recovering/relapsed alcoholic?
I actually used to look forward to your commentary. I watched your commentary for Dark Matter and enjoyed it. But when you said, “she brings up race,” there was a tone that betrayed a bit of insensitivity. Black mothers are hypersensitive to the realities of what could potentially happen when their black children interact with police. It is a fear that can be debilitating. She brings up race because race is at the forefront of her mind. Period. Full stop. And when she shares with her white husband, the father of their children, it is a reminder that two people can truly love each other and still not understand the lived experience and fears.
I was not bringing it up in a demeaning way and sorry if you felt that way. Bag Face is black, I understand this is a real world issue
The way it was said in the episode is exactly why you’re saying what you’re saying, and also how the Screen Invaders YT channel reflected it. You’re agreeing with the delivery of the line, the intent of the screenwriters, the audience, myself, and the content creator’s take here on YT.
In short: don’t worry we (everyone watching with an ounce of integrity) all agree with you because we all saw & heard it. You’re safe my friend there’s zero beef here & we all understand exactly the layers within what the character said as she cleaned the bike
Breathe in. Breathe out. 💜
*typo: Scene Invaders, not screen invaders
@@elaborateruse Thank you so very much for “seeing” and “hearing” me. I am very grateful. I did not reply again because I did not want to encourage an internet beef, or make a whole thing trying to explain myself. Breathing :)
@@desiconsulting2654 ❤