Thank you for awesome notes on how we can improve our instruction manual. Also on a few parts we should add to our kits. Even though the tone of this video is "blame this part" it makes for a great learning opportunity for all of us OBS folks. YOU DEFINITELY HAVE SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR TRUCK!!! I could tell that even in the "before runs". Its probably just a bad sensor. It could even be a bad tps on the throttle body. We have close to 1000 of these on the road and have had raving reviews and great results from them all. There is definitely something limiting your ECU and most likely the transmission. Simply installing a fuel pressure regulator probably won't solve that. The ECU will trim the fuel up or down to the tables it wants based off of what the other sensors are telling it. Raising the fuel pressure only helps if it is barely not getting enough fuel. I am always happy to spend as much time as it takes to see our customers happy. That's with any problem until its fully resolved. I would suggest taking that approach instead of assuming it's simply this one part in a truck that has hundreds of interrelated parts. If the problem is with the throttle body we will gladly resolve it or warranty it. Please give me a call as I welcome the chance to see yours completed and running to its correct potential.
Appreciate the response Russell. It is not a blame this part video. Just unbiased review and honesty. I'll never pull punches. The truck seems to have lost low end torque with the kit which makes sense as we have lost intake runner length. I still have more work to do.
I’m a welder…not a mechanic…but I have a 1988 F-350 that I’ve owned for 22 years and I’ve done a frame off restoration on it once in 2004. I’m delighted to find that someone offers a service and parts like the 460 EFI guys do and Russel has a great reputation with many people as being someone who will personally help customers get their truck working better. So far I have only purchased the Twisted Smog box but I got Russel’s phone number and spoke to him about it and also have texted with pictures and questions. Russel has always got back to me promptly and answered questions and was willing to help. I am planning to shut my truck down at some point and do some more work on it and I am considering all the upgrades that the 460 EFI GUYS offer so I’m very interested in the testing that CPR Garage has done here. It sounds like from the comments that CPR Garage is not willing to work with 460 EFI GUYS to get this particular truck to perform better with this throttle body even though 460 EFI GUYS is reaching out to say they are willing to make this right. Sorry but that just seems downright arrogant on CPR Garage. I’m still on the fence about how much money I should put into my old truck and my biggest issue with it is power and mpg’s….it drives me crazy to think about how my 2014 F250 4x4 with the bone stock 6.2 gets 10mpg hauling 12,000lbs….but my 1988 F350 2wd with the EFI 460, headers, upgraded BBK 61mm twin throttle body, upgraded K&N air filter kit, Twisted Smog box with full smog & EGR delete, and the “intake horns” bored out in the air intake hoses does so terrible. My 460 EFI gets 6mpg hauling 10,000lbs and it’s weak in comparison to my 6.2 truck. I’ve gotta decide if I should spend the thousands on parts to try to upgrade my old truck for better performance and economy or just spend a little more and get another newer truck…yes the newer truck will cost more but I’d also get better everything else…better heat and A/C system, better brakes, way better transmission,better availability for better parts in general…lots of the parts I get from part stores for my old truck are low quality stuff that doesn’t last like genuine Motorcraft stuff that is still available for my 2014 model. I love my old truck and if it can be upgraded and improved I’d love to do it, I realize it isn’t gonna compete with something like a truck that is 25 years newer but if the money I spend on it is gonna give the truck LESS power and economy like this CPR GARAGE video implies then I’m out… I’d like to see this worked out and I have a really hard time believing that these throttle bodies make the truck have less power…how could intake runner length cause a power loss on a fuel injected engine? The only thing going through there is air right? Those of us that don’t know about engines are looking to y’all that do for info on this
@@NBSWELDING wow that is a novel. I have more testing to do and I will fix the truck along with modifying my own truck! I might even put the kit on my truck to prove it if needed. I don't doubt Russell has many satisfied customers. I just don't think they actually tried to measure the performance and are going off of feel.
Good stuff!!!! For all the obs owners with 460, thank you for what you are doing. I was hesitant about changing out the throttle body and your video helped me make up my mind. I have a set of Banks headers and Y pipe sitting on my bench that I also have been hesitant about installing. A guy local to me has put a turbo on his modified efi 460 and still runs stock manifolds and has TONS of power, but will be curious to see what your results are. I have a ‘96 F250 crew cab that I have owned for 20 years and would like to add a bit more power to it. Again, thanks!!!!!!
That truck takes me right back. My parents bought a 94 f150, gray on white, ecsb, 300/5spd, 4x4 back in 96. Just a beautiful truck and we used it for everything. Grocery getting, to wheeling when the bronco wouldn't run
I was very interested in there product also, but I guess I was very fortunate that they would not respond to my emails or return phone calls, the Banks headers and exhaust has a ridiculous price tag, but they fit very well a function very well, absolutely love that they have half inch flanges and no gaskets, definitely a fantastic product torque and horsepower gains are more than noticeable, worth every penny.
My mechanic recommended a product that he swears by, but the manufacturer doesn't make it any more. I found one NOS and am anxious to install it to see what it does for me. It was the AIRAID 400-528 throttle body spacer.
I have a 97 F250 4x4 with the 460 and California mass air with the full banks exhaust and it still feels like it bogs in second, seems like the TC lockup since the rpms will hang up when you feel it on mine. Seen some people put a switch that will allow you to either disable lockup or have it operate normally which seemed to help them but haven't tried it. I want to eventually do a cam and ported heads and lower intake but those are pretty pricey as well and only know of Reincarnation automotive doing them.
@@cprgarage3206 E4OD on that too right? Seem like the TC locks up still just not bogging it? Definitely post if you figure it out it's been bugging me forever lol
@@cameron.carranza yes both trucks equipped identical from factory. Mine seems to lock on 2nd but not bog. More testing needed and possibly some tuning
@@cprgarage3206 What shift kit does your dads truck have? I have thought about the Banks trans command. Also, if you look up Parkland Automotive in Wa State, they sell a top end kit that includes ported heads with matched intake and a custom ground cam made for the efi 460’s.
@@famman8729 he told me today he thinks it has the banks trans command which I think is just a module. And I'm looking to put a package together with Parkland!
Yours being a 97, does it have Mass air? I know the 300's and small block V8 trucks got mass air in 96. And smaller tires will make a big difference in acceleration too. The thing you are over looking on your dad's truck is, by removing the the upper intake you are losing intake runner length and plenum volume. So you are effecting the torque out put of the engine. But yes to see any big gain you would need to do the intake mods and exhaust. Since your truck already has the exhaust done, I'd like to see what kind of gains you could get by swapping to a oval Cobra style throttle body on your stock upper intake. With some porting on the TB openings on the stock upper. To better match the new throttle body. And there is no comparison in engine compartments on a 77 & a 96. The 77 is a whole lot more wide open. I bet the 96 would be a whole lot warmer under the hood. Your flex has a lot more tech then the truck and I would guess at least a 1,000 lbs less weight too.
No mine is speed density also. And agreed on shorter runner length and loss of torque that is my theory as well and that can't be fixed with this throttle body kit
Curious to find on your dads truck, mine lays over on the shift too. Just checked the timing on mine the other day and it was set at 8° btc, I cranked it up to 12° and it is much improved, it still lays over on the shift but it’s not nearly as bad as it was. I can tell the timing chain has a lot of slack from putting timing light on it. Haven’t had much time to play with it lately but I’d like to try putting more timing in it to see what it does. My 390 seems to like 14°-16° depending on the weather. We are at 6000 ft in elevation in Cheyenne
Your stock fuel pump is flowing less @ higher pressures. Stock pumps brand new are barely enough for rated hp. The same thing happened to me with my maf 7.5, i upped the pressure and lost top end power but gained low end. I replaced my pumps with walbro 450 pumps. And upgraded fuel lines with -8 ptfe. That tb would work better with their gutted intake, but i do not agree with that either. You need to watch fuel pressure while making the pulls. And fwiw i would port match the factory intake hat.
Sweet! You have the part number for the fuel pressure regulator? I have the same truck as you but a 94 with headers. I’m probably lean also. Thanks for the video 👍🏼
Got the 460 in my rv. Got the 7.3 power stroke in the truck.. love my 7.3. Is that truck obs 1 or 2? A tuner could change your world. It did on my 7.3. And I know they got them for the mustang so they are available for gas engines. Maybe a hydra tuner?
@@cprgarage3206 I’m looking into a tuner for my 95 460 .. maybe get the rv a bit more pep in it’s step.. I’d love to just put a 7.3 in it.. big turbo. Injector’s and a hydra tuner.. it be the shit.. and better mileage
Ok, so I tried doing some research for this mod and didn’t find anything. Can anyone explain it or have an idea where to find it? I’m guessing the SN95 is reference to the Mustang.
Lunati cams makes a Rv grind EFI compatible cam, mine pulls better than any 460 I've ever driven, but I still feel it has more to give, and I believe it's on the intake side, 468 ci Banks stinger exhaust and BBK throttle body 4:10 and 35" tires on a 93 f350, it's a little bumpy when cold but smoths right out after it warms up, I am seriously thinking about a carburetor and possibly another cam, only because I dont know how this cam will like a carburetor, if it's fine I will leave it, but it definitely needs more air and probably fuel.
Man I have been saying for years that their kit doesn't make sense and I can't see how their lower intake manifold would make any sense in a truck application. Save all your money and just put a turbo on it. Check out my TH-cam channel if interested in actually making an EFI 460 sing... (Billet wheel S480). Also I am a big fan of your channel. Helped me a ton when building my forged turbo 460 long block.
a stick Shift Truck always get better Mileage , there is no slipping unlike the E4OD , i think Throttle Body should of been compared on a Zf5 equipped 460 . and lot more fun too Drive.
Well I hope you put grandpa's truck back the way it was. Not a great result to make less power and use all that gas doing 0-60 runs with his poor old truck
I wouldn’t mind subscribing to your channel, but you got Blue Line gang flags all over the place. Get rid of your gang symbol BS and I’d be happy to sub.
the e4od is shifting too late. it comes that way from Ford in effort to keep everybody happy, not us guys, reprogram with a shift kit, I beat out a Mustang and some ricers with my 460efi/e4od combination. its a combo of performance parts that make the hot rod..
Thank you for awesome notes on how we can improve our instruction manual. Also on a few parts we should add to our kits. Even though the tone of this video is "blame this part" it makes for a great learning opportunity for all of us OBS folks. YOU DEFINITELY HAVE SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR TRUCK!!! I could tell that even in the "before runs". Its probably just a bad sensor. It could even be a bad tps on the throttle body. We have close to 1000 of these on the road and have had raving reviews and great results from them all. There is definitely something limiting your ECU and most likely the transmission. Simply installing a fuel pressure regulator probably won't solve that. The ECU will trim the fuel up or down to the tables it wants based off of what the other sensors are telling it. Raising the fuel pressure only helps if it is barely not getting enough fuel. I am always happy to spend as much time as it takes to see our customers happy. That's with any problem until its fully resolved. I would suggest taking that approach instead of assuming it's simply this one part in a truck that has hundreds of interrelated parts. If the problem is with the throttle body we will gladly resolve it or warranty it. Please give me a call as I welcome the chance to see yours completed and running to its correct potential.
Appreciate the response Russell. It is not a blame this part video. Just unbiased review and honesty. I'll never pull punches. The truck seems to have lost low end torque with the kit which makes sense as we have lost intake runner length. I still have more work to do.
I’m a welder…not a mechanic…but I have a 1988 F-350 that I’ve owned for 22 years and I’ve done a frame off restoration on it once in 2004.
I’m delighted to find that someone offers a service and parts like the 460 EFI guys do and Russel has a great reputation with many people as being someone who will personally help customers get their truck working better. So far I have only purchased the Twisted Smog box but I got Russel’s phone number and spoke to him about it and also have texted with pictures and questions. Russel has always got back to me promptly and answered questions and was willing to help.
I am planning to shut my truck down at some point and do some more work on it and I am considering all the upgrades that the 460 EFI GUYS offer so I’m very interested in the testing that CPR Garage has done here. It sounds like from the comments that CPR Garage is not willing to work with 460 EFI GUYS to get this particular truck to perform better with this throttle body even though 460 EFI GUYS is reaching out to say they are willing to make this right. Sorry but that just seems downright arrogant on CPR Garage.
I’m still on the fence about how much money I should put into my old truck and my biggest issue with it is power and mpg’s….it drives me crazy to think about how my 2014 F250 4x4 with the bone stock 6.2 gets 10mpg hauling 12,000lbs….but my 1988 F350 2wd with the EFI 460, headers, upgraded BBK 61mm twin throttle body, upgraded K&N air filter kit, Twisted Smog box with full smog & EGR delete, and the “intake horns” bored out in the air intake hoses does so terrible. My 460 EFI gets 6mpg hauling 10,000lbs and it’s weak in comparison to my 6.2 truck.
I’ve gotta decide if I should spend the thousands on parts to try to upgrade my old truck for better performance and economy or just spend a little more and get another newer truck…yes the newer truck will cost more but I’d also get better everything else…better heat and A/C system, better brakes, way better transmission,better availability for better parts in general…lots of the parts I get from part stores for my old truck are low quality stuff that doesn’t last like genuine Motorcraft stuff that is still available for my 2014 model.
I love my old truck and if it can be upgraded and improved I’d love to do it, I realize it isn’t gonna compete with something like a truck that is 25 years newer but if the money I spend on it is gonna give the truck LESS power and economy like this CPR GARAGE video implies then I’m out…
I’d like to see this worked out and I have a really hard time believing that these throttle bodies make the truck have less power…how could intake runner length cause a power loss on a fuel injected engine? The only thing going through there is air right?
Those of us that don’t know about engines are looking to y’all that do for info on this
@@NBSWELDING wow that is a novel. I have more testing to do and I will fix the truck along with modifying my own truck! I might even put the kit on my truck to prove it if needed. I don't doubt Russell has many satisfied customers. I just don't think they actually tried to measure the performance and are going off of feel.
So whats verdict?
@@adamsorell4851 I've been wondering the same thing
Good stuff!!!! For all the obs owners with 460, thank you for what you are doing. I was hesitant about changing out the throttle body and your video helped me make up my mind. I have a set of Banks headers and Y pipe sitting on my bench that I also have been hesitant about installing. A guy local to me has put a turbo on his modified efi 460 and still runs stock manifolds and has TONS of power, but will be curious to see what your results are. I have a ‘96 F250 crew cab that I have owned for 20 years and would like to add a bit more power to it. Again, thanks!!!!!!
Banks header setup is supposed to be awesome. Only problem... the price tag, yikes!
@@cprgarage3206 Yes it is!!! I was lucky and found a never installed set on eBay for $800……this was a few years ago.
That truck takes me right back. My parents bought a 94 f150, gray on white, ecsb, 300/5spd, 4x4 back in 96. Just a beautiful truck and we used it for everything. Grocery getting, to wheeling when the bronco wouldn't run
My dad had three of these super cabs growing up, 2 of them brand new!
I was very interested in there product also, but I guess I was very fortunate that they would not respond to my emails or return phone calls, the Banks headers and exhaust has a ridiculous price tag, but they fit very well a function very well, absolutely love that they have half inch flanges and no gaskets, definitely a fantastic product torque and horsepower gains are more than noticeable, worth every penny.
i have a 90 f250 with a 460 in it …was seriously thinking of getting a 460efi guys throttle body …not anymore…thanks can’t wait for more videos!!
My mechanic recommended a product that he swears by, but the manufacturer doesn't make it any more. I found one NOS and am anxious to install it to see what it does for me.
It was the AIRAID 400-528 throttle body spacer.
My bone stock 2WD 1991 F-250HD XLT Lariat 460 EFI, E4OD, 3.55 gears has a 0-60 of 9.6 seconds.
At this point in time I'm more concerned with gas mileage than HP. 7-8 MPG is preventing me from driving my truck much.
I did a cat delete with Flow Master muffler on my 93 f250 with the 460. Made a big difference. I’ll be leaving my intake alone.
I would love to hear about horse power and torque differences as well between the old and new EFI.
I have a 97 F250 4x4 with the 460 and California mass air with the full banks exhaust and it still feels like it bogs in second, seems like the TC lockup since the rpms will hang up when you feel it on mine. Seen some people put a switch that will allow you to either disable lockup or have it operate normally which seemed to help them but haven't tried it. I want to eventually do a cam and ported heads and lower intake but those are pretty pricey as well and only know of Reincarnation automotive doing them.
I'm looking at working with them! FWIW my '97 does not bog in 2nd like that
@@cprgarage3206 E4OD on that too right? Seem like the TC locks up still just not bogging it? Definitely post if you figure it out it's been bugging me forever lol
@@cameron.carranza yes both trucks equipped identical from factory. Mine seems to lock on 2nd but not bog. More testing needed and possibly some tuning
@@cprgarage3206 What shift kit does your dads truck have? I have thought about the Banks trans command. Also, if you look up Parkland Automotive in Wa State, they sell a top end kit that includes ported heads with matched intake and a custom ground cam made for the efi 460’s.
@@famman8729 he told me today he thinks it has the banks trans command which I think is just a module. And I'm looking to put a package together with Parkland!
Yours being a 97, does it have Mass air? I know the 300's and small block V8 trucks got mass air in 96. And smaller tires will make a big difference in acceleration too.
The thing you are over looking on your dad's truck is, by removing the the upper intake you are losing intake runner length and plenum volume. So you are effecting the torque out put of the engine. But yes to see any big gain you would need to do the intake mods and exhaust. Since your truck already has the exhaust done, I'd like to see what kind of gains you could get by swapping to a oval Cobra style throttle body on your stock upper intake. With some porting on the TB openings on the stock upper. To better match the new throttle body.
And there is no comparison in engine compartments on a 77 & a 96. The 77 is a whole lot more wide open. I bet the 96 would be a whole lot warmer under the hood.
Your flex has a lot more tech then the truck and I would guess at least a 1,000 lbs less weight too.
No mine is speed density also. And agreed on shorter runner length and loss of torque that is my theory as well and that can't be fixed with this throttle body kit
Vehicles over 8,500lb GVWR didn't get mass airflow except in cali.
Curious to find on your dads truck, mine lays over on the shift too. Just checked the timing on mine the other day and it was set at 8° btc, I cranked it up to 12° and it is much improved, it still lays over on the shift but it’s not nearly as bad as it was. I can tell the timing chain has a lot of slack from putting timing light on it. Haven’t had much time to play with it lately but I’d like to try putting more timing in it to see what it does. My 390 seems to like 14°-16° depending on the weather. We are at 6000 ft in elevation in Cheyenne
I verified both trucks were at 10* with the spout out. I just bumped mine up to 12, we'll see how it pulls the camper this weekend
I have found that timing set at 8deg-32deg works the best
Your stock fuel pump is flowing less @ higher pressures. Stock pumps brand new are barely enough for rated hp. The same thing happened to me with my maf 7.5, i upped the pressure and lost top end power but gained low end. I replaced my pumps with walbro 450 pumps. And upgraded fuel lines with -8 ptfe. That tb would work better with their gutted intake, but i do not agree with that either. You need to watch fuel pressure while making the pulls. And fwiw i would port match the factory intake hat.
Watch my other videos I have a stock intake truck running more timing and fuel pressure and verified A/FR
I would love to hear about the fuel economy you have with the new EFI compared to the old for miles per gallon.
Me too
OK YALL WANT A FUNNY(THE AD THAT PLAYED BEFORE DRIVING A 22 FOOT TRUCK WAS PARALLEL PARKING INFORMATION)HAHAHAHAHAHA
All f250s 92-97 came w 4/10gears unless ordered different.
Put some Thorley headers on, mind have lasted 25 years with no sign they'll fail anytime soon.
Sweet! You have the part number for the fuel pressure regulator? I have the same truck as you but a 94 with headers. I’m probably lean also. Thanks for the video 👍🏼
LRS-PR558
@@cprgarage3206Napa?
Got the 460 in my rv. Got the 7.3 power stroke in the truck.. love my 7.3. Is that truck obs 1 or 2? A tuner could change your world. It did on my 7.3. And I know they got them for the mustang so they are available for gas engines. Maybe a hydra tuner?
@@hondaxl250k0 OBS is 92-97 body style. Never heard any referred to as OBS 2. 88-91 would be bricknose
@@cprgarage3206 obd2 not obs. Dam auto correct or fat fingers.. who knows lmao
@@hondaxl250k0 ah no OBD1. They almost all were except later CA emissions ones
@@cprgarage3206 I’m looking into a tuner for my 95 460 .. maybe get the rv a bit more pep in it’s step.. I’d love to just put a 7.3 in it.. big turbo. Injector’s and a hydra tuner.. it be the shit.. and better mileage
So did you do the SN95 FPS on your stock intake too? I'd be curious how much it helps the OE long runner set up too.
Yep did that first and verified air/fuels with a wideband! Do it, great mod
Ok, so I tried doing some research for this mod and didn’t find anything. Can anyone explain it or have an idea where to find it? I’m guessing the SN95 is reference to the Mustang.
@@famman8729 yes an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for 1994-98 Mustang GT.
Ah….10-4. Thanks for the response.
hey 460 owner any recommendations for a good cam shaft …not to rough of a idle!!
Lunati cams makes a Rv grind EFI compatible cam, mine pulls better than any 460 I've ever driven, but I still feel it has more to give, and I believe it's on the intake side, 468 ci Banks stinger exhaust and BBK throttle body 4:10 and 35" tires on a 93 f350, it's a little bumpy when cold but smoths right out after it warms up, I am seriously thinking about a carburetor and possibly another cam, only because I dont know how this cam will like a carburetor, if it's fine I will leave it, but it definitely needs more air and probably fuel.
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
With it having such low miles on it I'd leave it alone. I've had many of these and they all did better stock.
What rims and tires are on this truck? I would really like to get them for my 97 f250.
Not sure they were already on it. I think they are KMC wheels
Man I have been saying for years that their kit doesn't make sense and I can't see how their lower intake manifold would make any sense in a truck application. Save all your money and just put a turbo on it. Check out my TH-cam channel if interested in actually making an EFI 460 sing... (Billet wheel S480).
Also I am a big fan of your channel. Helped me a ton when building my forged turbo 460 long block.
Wow thanks. I think most people use the kit on retro fit older stuff and never know they are giving up power!
ford 7.5l King Kong!
a stick Shift Truck always get better Mileage , there is no slipping unlike the E4OD , i think Throttle Body should of been compared on a Zf5 equipped 460 . and lot more fun too Drive.
You should refund this guys money. I am pissed off and its not my truck.
That mod is not going to ever make a difference.
Well I hope you put grandpa's truck back the way it was. Not a great result to make less power and use all that gas doing 0-60 runs with his poor old truck
I wouldn’t mind subscribing to your channel, but you got Blue Line gang flags all over the place. Get rid of your gang symbol BS and I’d be happy to sub.
We're just fine without ya princess!
Blue line gang flags, lol. Get the fuck outta here.
There is most deffinately a Bog in there in second gear.
the e4od is shifting too late. it comes that way from Ford in effort to keep everybody happy, not us guys, reprogram with a shift kit, I beat out a Mustang and some ricers with my 460efi/e4od combination. its a combo of performance parts that make the hot rod..