ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Watch huge A.I. armies battle it out in the WarCraft 2 Fight Club. Can you predict the winner of each round?
In Episode 3 of the Fight Club, Heroes of the Horde (Dentarg, Gul'dan, Grom, Zul'Jin, Deathwing, Kargath, Cho'gall), Footmen, Elven Rangers, Ballistas, Troll Berserkers, Ogre Mages, Paladins, Death Knights & Skeletons, Grunts, the Human Army and the Orcish Army fight epic AI battles in the Fightclub arena! Who will emerge victorious?
This video is made possible by the Warcraft 2 widescreen / high resolution patch created by fois, as well as the trigger editor created by Mistral (Ed Gorod)! - เกม
![1 Orc vs 7 Computers [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7BWNchvzG1Y/mqdefault.jpg)
![1 Orc vs 7 Computers [4K]](/img/tr.png)
It doesn't matter if it's Warcraft I or Warcraft II, Raise Dead will always be useless. :V
Bloodlust was and still is totally broken.
They should have at least had it make the user take double damage or lose a substantial part of its life kind of like stim in starcraft.
You are all not considering terrain. 100 ogre magi with blood lust mean nothing if they can attack one at a time, but healing still works
@@Aerxis Yeah man decades of pro players playing mainly Orc were just not using terrain or healing right.
@@Aerxis Oh believe me, I consider healing to be a ranged spell, and I consider ogres still winning over paladins 1 to 2, another reason to consider bloodlust being ridicuslously overpowered.
@@streetstroller that's just because the battlenet maps were crap. Healing spell is stronger if the terrain is more obstructive, like in some of the single player missions.
This is soooo beautiful, the colors, the accurateness, WC2 is the BEST. I will watch it for centuries.
Is there anywhere in wow draenor that resembles WC2 with all the brown mushrooms and green water ?
Pretty much none. Because the entire landscape design of WoW Outland & Draenor are completely retcons.
The only thing about WoW design that is somewhat same to WC2 Draenor & WC3 Outland is Hellfire Peninsula, and even then lacked the mushroom trees because the designers move it all to Zangarmarsh. Which would only be further retcon again in WoD Draenor when it was shown that the mushroom trees were under the sea.
@@justinedc1077 Totally disappointed...We never got ogres as a playable race as well. I hope it would get better now that Chris Metzen is back at Blizzard
@@geminiblue6677 sorry bud, we aint in the same page in that regard. Im not a fan of WoW, and I utterly hate its lore beyond reasons.
Mostly about WoW lore is disappointment, awful writing, and retcons, especially about lore, and Im not just talking about modern WoW, im talking about the whole thing from the start since Vanilla. Having Metzen back wont fix anything in it. Come to think of it, Metzen also made some poor story decisions in it most especially like bullshit WoD alternate timeline time travel, retconning the concept of the LK in Wrath, and pretty much everything about Burning Crusade just to name a few.
Omg the alliance mage @8:00 was MVP. He ran from top to bottom and made lots of catapults miss and even kill their own Ogre. What a hero
That last fight seemed unfair with these army values but holy crap does blizzard make a difference.
The big chunk of ogres trapped inside a circle of catapults was helpful too.
And most catapults just sitting around being useless.
@@astovar23 I think that was true of many of tge archers as well
Yeah I predicted this one right just cause of all the mages and I know from previous videos the AI is good with it. Hell of an orc horde though so wasn't too sure tbh.
Also Air units in WC2 have splash damage and will hurt their own guys.
Thats cool. Well seems like Bloodlust is way superior than healing.
And easier to use.
Sort of a surprise for me. I've always considered healing vastly superior to bloodlust
Thats why there was never a huge completive play because it was just Orc vs Orc
It has always been way superior. Insanely OP. But if this was to be a perfect match, then the Paladins at the front would not heal, just get healed by the others.
@@IgorBezugliy newb
Ah the soundtrack, the voicelines...this game will always remind me of the glory days of Blizzard. Thanks for still giving it so much love!
Morale of this fightclub: don’t bring an axe to a ballista party.
Hellscream is a walking screaming heavy metal album XD
Well that settles the age old ''but paladins have healing'' argument you hear from bloodlust defenders.
I don't know, it all depends on the use case. For example 2 paladins vs 2 ogre magi, if one party uses blood lust, the other one could just run away for a while, then fight
Also, healing is a "permanent buff". If you heal, then wait 5 minutes, then heal again, it does a lot more than blood lusting, waiting and doing it again
@@Aerxis lmao
@@Aerxis You seem to like to argue exceptions. Heal is great for the campaign mode, Bloodlust is better in PvP. Most players agree that Horde > Alliance on land, while Alliance > Horde at sea, due to invisibility cast on ships. Now, the problem is that while mages > dks due to polymorph, the ogre magi are more cost effective and easier to mass earlier so most PvP never develops to mages, dks, gryphons and dragons etc. Alliance upgrades are also gold intensive so that competes with mage production.
@@eben3357 I agree with everything you said. Somewhere else I mentioned the maps have a lot to do with bloodlust being overpowered. It is not as OP on archipelagos and land maps with lots of choke points.
bloodlust is stil heavily favoured because of the way AI uses healing, they will use those +1,2hp heals (out of mana heals) which will interrupt their attack and in WC 2 for some reason it takes a lot of time for AI to process the next target, so its much more efficient to buff BL for half a minute then just letting ogres attack
Lol the ending. "We've won! Now let's kill ourselves! :D"
Wow! I am playing WarCraft ii again and I got every fight prediction wrong!
Blizzard and Death and Decay is really OP against larges groups. The outcome of the last fight was easy to see when horde didn't have dks.
As the mortal armies rush down towards their doom, the burning shadow comes to consume us all.
Wasn't it: "rush blindly towards their doom..."
@@Aerxis su nerd
On the grunt vs dk fight
I saw dk and I was like "yeah they don't even need the frontline, DKs just win that hands down".... Then I realized they weren't allowed to cast spells other than raise dead and I was like "nevermind, they're screwed"
I was suprised the deathknights didnt start attacking till they got hit. however if they were able to cast raise dead during the fight they might have won.
While the paladins heal was good, I see one big problem with their healing. Every tmie they hit 8 mana, they try to heal for 1 hp... They are wasting the chance to do 10'ish dmg, to do 1 healing. Perhaps if each one only used heal when they had over 60-mana so they wouldn't braindead spam it in melee they might have a chance.
Thanks for mentioning me. Yes, this looks like fair fight to me for Ogre Magi and Palladins.
You got one subscriber. ☺
Thanks so much.
4:47 the outcome is expected. The death knights should have raised the dead orcs as skeletons too!
Can't use raise dead if a unit is blocking the spot, unfortunately. You even use up the mana for the spell but don't get a skelly.
wouldn't change much, skelies are very weak. as soon as I realized they are not going to cast death and decay it was very predictable.
Blizzard give blizzard such damage XD
In the 90s it was a well known combo of unholy armor+ haste + death and decay = entirely dead enemy army. I dunno why but I havent seen it in the new players these days. That combo literally could destroy everything, as the enemy army encircles the casting death knight, who is invincible, who is obliterating everything in sight. I believe the only counter was polymorph. Not even sure exorcism worked.
now that you mention it; i think that's why Exorcism even exists is to just say "No" to any DK around.
It's funny how these videos really demonstrate how poor the War2 auto targeting is. Those catapults just standing around wondering what direction to shoot at for an hour while they get murdered.
Man you are a beast! Good video.
I wonder if one day you will play Dawn of War, its a funny game
Love the battle club videos keep it up reminds me of my childhood when i played those games good times
Paladins seem to prioritise healing for 1 hp over dealing 10 damage
The mages seem like a pretty strong unit to have.
The instant I saw Mages in the last matchup I knew who would win. Magic OP.
So... you give 100k worth of bloodlusting ogres and dragons that can fly over the terrain on the sides and who have AOE attacks a fight against 40k worth of tier 1 units, footmen and archers, and a couple of wizards... How the fk is that fair again?
Or you make a fight all about trolls versus ballistae, but trolls form a perfect circle at their max range so only one in every ten trolls gets to fight at a time, but ballistae get to shoot with one or two rows of them, basically making it a Battle of Thermopilae situation where the army with the stronger individual unit wins.
Same thing going on with the grunts and the DKs really, the big numbers that can cover the whole terrain's width just means every grunt fights one skeleton at a time. - Divide all those numbers down so that 2 grunts each gotta fight a DK with 10 slaves when they can actually be surrounded and hit from all sides? It makes an exponential difference.
I did the maths when fighting mobs in WoW. - If one enemy deals X damage to you by the time you DPS it down, then if 2 mobs attack you at once, you take 3x damage. - if 3 mobs attack you at once, you take 6x damage. - If 4 mobs you attack you at once you take 10x damage. - 5 mobs, 15x. - 6 mobs, 21x. - Why? Because all mobs attack you at the same time, not one after the other. - That's why groups of smaller units are strong in a strategy game.
A grunt can beat 5 slaves coming at it in a row, but won't be able to survive 5 slaves surrounding it.
I'm glad you make these. I love Warcraft 2 when I was kid and played it a lot. I really have no interest in playing it these days though and these battle theatres is probably would I would do instead. You skipped the middle man for me.
This game is awesome. I hope you do more WC2 Fight Club Videos.
As a kid, my first game ever was Colossus Chess on the C64. After that, for a while it was hard for my brain to grok that that *games could be unbalanced*. Bloodlust definitely did the trick.
Honestly, the Horde army felt like football fans cheering and supporting before the fight
5:30 why not let the Death Knights use Raise Dead from the new corpses... (not a fair fight)
The Paladins VS Ogres fight probably would have gone better if the Paladins didn't stop fighting to do heals whenever they got the slightest bit of mana back.
I just figured that the Paladins would look like they're winning at first, then they'd run out of mana while the Ogres only have to recast Bloodlust every once in a while thus less downtime.
Then I remembered how bad it really gets with the Paladins stopping to heal instead of doing damage.
Although I expected most of the ogres to still be alive at the end...
Between these fights, I guessed 3 out of 5 successfully.
i love warcraft 2 fights
source code for ps1 version got leaked a while ago. someone make a modern port!
question, there is a mod/conversion, however you wanna call it, in starcraft 2 that puts warcraft 3 into starcraft 2. atm there is only the prolog and human campaign but it seems to play really good. would you be up for a 100% playthrough like with WoL and HotS?
Is there a patch that adds 4k res, auto heal and such available to download?
Man the ballista thing was ridiculous whatever the outcome
Future history books must not miss these glorious battles by any means!
The blizzard on that last fight was so satisfying :D
4:19 Huh, that army cost half as much but still won.
Add more varied landscape and it would be great.
I grew up with WC2, and as much as I like your starcraft videos, Warcraft 2 just hits different.
Are some of those Orc hero voices custom or did they finally after many years give them unique voices? Because before Beyond the Dark Portal the heroes just had default voices (at least in mine they did).
yep, the ToD ones (Gul'dan, Zul'jin, Cho'gall) don't have custom voicelines - I took them from Hearthstone ;)
@@StuGames What was the original voice line base for Gul'dan? Was it just the orc voice?
@@boomboy8104 I suppose Death Knight quotes. You don't control it in the Horde campaign though; you must kill him along with Cho'gall at the Tomb of Sargeras.
@@exeortegarubio you also get Cho'Gall in one of the earlier Orc missions and he's just a beefier ogre mage with no special voices, same with Uther in the Human mission where you have to bring him across a naval blockade. I guess Blizzard didn't think about custom hero voices until BtDP
1:17 YEAHHH ALTERAC ORANGE BABY
But the blizzard spell is still second to OP 😁😁 only behind polymerase
Heroes in wc 2 is not strong enough
how do you cast mass bloodlust like that? in wc2 i can only do it one target at a time @_@
I'm using mods and a lot of trickery to make these videos work!
That Paladin script was insane, reminds me how micro intensive WC2 was.
ПОЧЕМУ? почему маги не делают скелетов. Сейчас (5:42)
Can't make skellies when a unit is blocking the spot. The DK's even use their mana but nothing happens.
Good always >>> Evil
I was thinking the dks were going to summon skellies from the grunts too, would have made it a little more interesting.
Yeah from seeing that, not many grunts were slain by the skeletons so it wouldn’t have made much of a difference. I thought initially the skeletons were going to win, as I recall them being stronger with more damage then that…
Weird. It looks like the catapults glitched out in the last battle. They just stopped firing, like the AI was confused on who to attack.
The outcome might've ended in Horde victory if they were as efficient as the ballistae in the 333 vs 1000 Berzerkers fight.
I think the catapults just have a very long time between shots. But yeah, the AI can sometimes be wonky in this very old game!
The AI derps a lot in this game sadly.
How did you zoom out like that?!?
I think that last fight would have gone a lil differently if the ogres didn't get stuck behind the catapults.
Formation is such an important factor.
well we got a fairer fight with the Paladins and the Ogre Magi and it turns out bloodlust is still really OP.
also that Death Knights and skeletons one was kinda disturbing for the set up
Everyone talking about how OP lust is, noone talks about how BAD skeletons are. 😁
Cool video )))
The last fight could (and probably should) have ended vastly different with just a slightly different execution by orcs.
No no, in order to beat Ogre Magi with Bloodlust, all you need to do is have a chokepoint! And three Paladins, with heal, hitting the Ogre all at once!
OH YEAH WC2! Thanks Stu!
Since when did Zulgin, Cho Gal and Guldan have discint VA's? I've played WC2 a bunch of times and they always just had generic troll, ogre, deathnight lines. It wasn't till Tides that heroes had unique voices for me.
Epico demostrado que los ogros siempre fieron mejores que los caballeros ganado. Epico para los que juegamos en el play uno
10 Danaths vs 100 Grunts ❤
Yes!
idk if you noticed the issue in the 200 holy paladins vs 100 ogre mages, the paladins spent their time healing instead of dealing dmg while the back row didn't heal,it should've been the opposite , 2nd row heals and let the front row do dmg, if it was like that the paladins would've won the fight, the only threat I have with humans AI are the mages, their abilities are scary
Perdisctions:
Fight 1: Horde win
Fight 2: berserkers win
Fight 3: ogre magi win
Fight 4: grunts win
Fight 5: Alliance win
of course the Horde lost...
freaking Gul'dan ruined the plan.
A good amount of ballistas/catapults seem broken. They just sit there and don’t fire for the majority of the fight. Maybe it’s too much for the simulator to handle?
Wow. I knew the BL ogres were WAY better than Paladins. I didn't know they were OVER TWICE as good!
Kargath is really "Dirty Harry" in orc terms. You know, does all the dirty work.
I like the cold burn on all the people who didn't know Bloodlusted ogres are a lot stronger than paladins. haven't played in over 25 years, but it's like 4 mana per hp, so a paladin can barely heal 2/3 of another paladin before completly dry?
These comments for Paladin vs Orge were like they have never played warcraft 2, Bloodlust is much much stronger than heals.
Deathk nights controlled by the computer are a pain, but blizzard is hands down the most broken spell in WC2.
Are you serious about saying that Deathwing can't kill 30 swordsmen and 120 archers?
the Paladin vs Ogre Mage fight just hearing the *"CHARRRRGE!"* never heard that voice line before.
Paladins vs ogres was not fair since the paladins did not have the opportunity to outflank the enemy what would have been the deciding factor.
Hoooooo never thought ogres were so more powerful than knights I was so sure 200 knight would reck 100 ogres like no doubt
So Deathwing gets morphed into a critter. But he's still flying at the time. Shouldn't the critter go splat?
You use some HOTS sound dialogue for Zuljin, Chogall, and Guldan? :D
Ogres mages overpowers Paladin at whatever case, but Paladins can easily pawn Horde DKs with just Exorcism. Human Mages are definitely the definition of ultimate weapon unit of all the spellcasters... So overall WC2 Alliance army just wins over Horde.
The final war battle was truly epic. Even with Dragons, Ogres, and Catapults in the Horde, Alliance still wins even with just basic high elf rangers and footmen all thanks to the great Mages.
But there is a level of unity density which just isnt realistic, and thus blizzard proves to be unreasonably effective.
@@notalefty999 thats the point. In a clustered army of course AOE spells would be the best and efficient. While mages have their blizzard and fireball and flame shields spells. DKs have death and decay and tornado.
Basically i just wanna point out which faction has the edge based on skills and spells. And Alliance wins.
Among the 4 spellcasters, if i would rank them. Its gonna be:
1. Mages
2. Ogre Mages
3. Paladins
4. Death Knights
Mages are most powerful of all cause their spells are just over the top. Ogres are second because of their OP bloodlust and deadly Arcane Runes if used correctly. Paladins are third because of the useful holy light heal and the exorcism spell that just instantly destroys death knights. Death knights are last cause while their spells are powerful too again they can be easily vanquished by paladins and their tornado spells are very unstable dangerous to both your own units and the enemies.
@@justinedc1077 No, ogre magi win because you can prebuff and the effective use of spells once combat starts is way more micro intensive, and therefore much harder to execute in practice. Also, bloodlust is insanely powerful, as is evident from ogre magi beating twice their number of paladins even with autocast healing being used for more efficiently than a human ever could. If you can beat twice your number with the same health and no healing, you are doing a lot more than double the damage, and the buff isnt restricted to the ogres.
The faction that clearly has the edge is the faction that overwhelmingly wins in pvp, and is used almost exclusively. That would be Horde.
@@notalefty999 and im not really considering the factors of actual player controls or micro or anything. It doesnt matter whether what faction is stronger or weaker. A pro player is always a pro. Same thing with Warcraft 3. Doesnt matter which of the 4 races is the strongest. If im a noob using the strongest race, i would still lose to the pro player using the weakest race.
My points are just simply based on the in-game design and effect of strength and skills and spells itself of the various units. Never was I reffering to anything that has human player factor involvement.
Basically im comparing units in-game in a way like a rock, paper, scissors thing, thats it.
When dragons went on sides to fight alone, there, the archers killed them easily.
Nation and Clan tournaments to see who is the best of the best. And the champion from the Nation fights the champion clan.
0:14
Totes unfair! In the other video you gave the Alliance heroes a bottleneck!
Final battle army vs army looks like idea for new game of Dynasty Warriors. Dat can be Warcraft Warriors.
If you had used death and decay it would have changed the odds.
Ogers VS knights was always so one sided.
I thought the Paladins gonna win for a sec there.. sadly their MP heals are too weak.
Hey, do you want to try "They are billions" game? I think you would like it
Продолжай снимать похожие видео ,мне 👍
Nice, I guessed 100% of the outcomes incorrectly 😎
kinda flawed since human heroesgot a choke point while orcish heroes did not.
Blood lust always heals healing sadly, even with hack auto casting.
The heroes from Tides of Darkness dont have voices, must be fanmade?
My friend what about sc2 lotv brutal speed run ?
extremely good video
Thanks!
how did the heroes lose so badly? damn I guessed that one wrong!
Those trolls could have beaten those ballistas if they just moved around lol
I'm really glad my computer doesn't have to handle all this
Are you planning making any pvp videos of wc2?
Super odd. Your old video th-cam.com/video/903Vv0B1p0g/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Stu shows 100 lusted ogre magi against 250 knights with 15 ogres remaining. Here, 100 lusted ogre magi against 200 paladins with heal and 17 ogres remaining. So let's just split the difference and say 16 ogre magi always live against either 250 knights or 200 paladins with heal. Are we supposed to conclude that having 200 paladins utilize heal is equal to only 50 knights? Is my logic way off? Someone comment on this. Even if my logic here is wrong, the results really go against intuition. Maybe the way the AI uses heal is sub optimal in some regard. But how can 250 knights do just as good as 200 paladins using heal? Edit: Did some research and the stats of knight and paladins is exactly the same, except paladins have mana and spells (same with ogres). So I believe my logic above is correct enough to conclude that this AI's healing ability is worth about as much as 50 knights just auto attacking based on the experiments, which just seems like a huge underrepresentation of what heal should be worth on 200 paladins with a smart AI auto casting. I'd like to see how the AI is casting heal. Does the pally continually cast 1 mana heals once it "blows its load" on the first heal, or does it prioritize attacking when its mana is super low? Remember, a super low mana heal will basically just be worthless and you should auto attack instead.
Edit: Go to 3:48 and slow down to .25 speed. You can see paladins in the bottom right hand corner attacking and then they just stop attacking, stand still for a moment, and start running around aimlessly. This behavior is seen throughout the battle if you're looking for it. The ogres don't showcase this behavior. It has to do with the way the AI is prioritizing heals. I'm convinced that the way the AI is handling implementing the heals is generally not benefiting the paladin army and may on many occasions just be hurting the paladin army.
The AI autocasting is certainly far from perfect (it's a very old game), I've used some tricks to improve it here but it still definitely makes mistakes. There is a mod where paladins heal instantly and much faster, but I think even with that the ogres still win. Healing just isn't all that good during fights. With full mana, a paladin can heal 42 hitpoints, which is just 46.66% of a paladin's 90 hitpoints. So with perfect healing, you would have 200*1.4666 = 293 knights worth of hitpoints, which isn't that far off from 250. Add to that that the healing isn't perfect (some palas don't get to use all their mana, attacking gets interrupted to heal, some palas might have to run to their heal target, palas that regenerate 6 mana will waste time just to heal 1 hitpoint) and it's easy to see how they're not necessarily performing better than 250 knights.
Edit: Also, the ogres are autocasting bloodlust in this one, so there is probably less bloodlust downtime as well.