Nah the most important part of this scene comes after this. Where he gets a mental breakdown and explains how it is to be a black rich guy (in that time setting) he is being rejected by both white people because he's black but also by black people because they think he feels like he's better than them. So yes he's rich but that's it he has no culture that accepts him.
Well you can really really easily argue with him, because hes fundamentally talking about class not ethnicity. Being black isnt a class its an ethnicity. No amount of money or education changes you into being white (Michael Jackson notwithstanding). It just happens that there are a higher proportion of black people that are also poor, but the prejudice and difficulties poor people experience arent the same as racism, which is sort of the entire thing the film is about. The exact point of all of that trip through the deep south showcased in the film is also a pretty strong argument against "cant argue with that"
@@nektarios5291 Honestly, Tony is right here. I come from a white Eastern European country and here we had a saying "I wish I was a n*gger in Alabama" since live then and there was way easier. The point being you deal with your problems and don`t bitch coz life is always gonna be shitty and unfair.
@@nektarios5291As many films have hit close to home plenty of times before, the only color that matters in any society is green if it ain't gold and silver. All it takes is losing a certain amount, if not earning or keeping a certain amount, that can make all the difference in anyone's life. Still even then lacking opportunity can also leave a impact cause all it takes is oversight to miss out on something that could've been as significant as it could be valuable. Which is why relevance holds more value than even the color green. Cause unless you're relevant to someone you're not gonna be treated eith much care as if you were relative enough to be treated like a relative on a human being stand point. We all are no better than eachother and neither are any of us useless. Its just those that see us as useless that're the ones who're useless in comparison if they can't even try to see the value in someone else. For example women weren't seen that big as a marketing audience until they were recognized for also liking to smoke and drink. Look where we are today because certain things you would think would be seen as trvial would end up being the very reason people come together.
Hell yeah, he does. Some white people have tougher struggles and hard time to make ends meet,while some rich blacks hate their own kind like Clarence thomas. He can relate more to black people's than his boss.
He ain't wrong though. I wish we had more people like Tony he's an upstanding guy who's trying to provide for his family and doesn't let prejudice rule his life. That's extraordinary especially if you consider how things were back then..
He IS wrong though. Black people don't all have the same diet or same taste in music. He's assuming that black people all across America are exactly the same as the few black guys he's seen on the streets of NYC. It's a really childish way of looking at the world.
Yeah, but the rich black guy is still not allowed to eat at the same restaurant he played for, or even use the same bathroom for that matter. And not allowed to try on a suit he wanted.
@@johnjpete822Well neither is Tony when discussing how different and more privileged Don's life is compared to Tony's and other black people. Also, it's rich that Don isn't happy at having to call Robert Kennedy (who happened to be an attorney btw) to get him and Tony out of that county jail to attenuate assault charges, when Tony had to bribe some cops to release Don after that latter was caught gay cruising with another man in a public sauna. If it weren't for Tony, Don would be jailed and being charged with gross indecency. Don may be a well-mannered, moralistic, music genius but he doesn't seem politically savvy.
Look up a full vid so you get the end of this scene when Doc explains his isolation from both black and white cultures/communities. Cutting that just makes him look like an entitled prick instead of the artist torn apart by race relations in America.
I understand what they’re arguing but I also disagree with it. Living a certain lifestyle doesn’t make you black. The black guy is right, he should’ve handled his temper. Just because the black guy enjoys nice things, and experiences the finer things in life doesn’t make him not black. Not being able to relate to poor black folk doesn’t mean you’re not black.
Thing is, certain lifestyles can put you out of touch of what the common lower earning people contend with every day. Not to say doctor Shirley is less black because of his luxury. As we saw, he still went thru abuse and hatred.
@@jacksonquinn8744 But the thing was, he went into some Southern All-White establishments, thinking he could get equal treatment when all it did was get him beat up by those bar racists or arrested when he had elicit activities with another man in a public sauna.
@@BillyButcher90 and yet he could have access to venues denied the common black folk of the time because of his reputation and skills. Yes, he was mistreated, but he didn't have it as bad as most poc in those days
They way Don turns his head angrily suggests that Tony Lip hit a nerve there!
No no if you seen the full-length Tony would've been in the wrong a bit
@@CodenameNionBoth were in the wrong a bit
this was an incredible scene, i wished they showed it further. it really optimised the whole film
"How bad do you want the subtitles to be?"
This guy: "Yes"
Ong bro its so frustrating these days
My brother in Christ, you literally interviewed me while sitting on an elevated throne
Viggo Mortensen lay down facts straight up
You missed the most important part of the scene.........
Dam when you put it like that you can't really argue with him.
L
Nah the most important part of this scene comes after this. Where he gets a mental breakdown and explains how it is to be a black rich guy (in that time setting) he is being rejected by both white people because he's black but also by black people because they think he feels like he's better than them. So yes he's rich but that's it he has no culture that accepts him.
Well you can really really easily argue with him, because hes fundamentally talking about class not ethnicity. Being black isnt a class its an ethnicity. No amount of money or education changes you into being white (Michael Jackson notwithstanding). It just happens that there are a higher proportion of black people that are also poor, but the prejudice and difficulties poor people experience arent the same as racism, which is sort of the entire thing the film is about. The exact point of all of that trip through the deep south showcased in the film is also a pretty strong argument against "cant argue with that"
@@nektarios5291 Honestly, Tony is right here.
I come from a white Eastern European country and here we had a saying "I wish I was a n*gger in Alabama" since live then and there was way easier.
The point being you deal with your problems and don`t bitch coz life is always gonna be shitty and unfair.
@@nektarios5291As many films have hit close to home plenty of times before, the only color that matters in any society is green if it ain't gold and silver. All it takes is losing a certain amount, if not earning or keeping a certain amount, that can make all the difference in anyone's life. Still even then lacking opportunity can also leave a impact cause all it takes is oversight to miss out on something that could've been as significant as it could be valuable. Which is why relevance holds more value than even the color green. Cause unless you're relevant to someone you're not gonna be treated eith much care as if you were relative enough to be treated like a relative on a human being stand point. We all are no better than eachother and neither are any of us useless. Its just those that see us as useless that're the ones who're useless in comparison if they can't even try to see the value in someone else. For example women weren't seen that big as a marketing audience until they were recognized for also liking to smoke and drink. Look where we are today because certain things you would think would be seen as trvial would end up being the very reason people come together.
Little Richard, one of the fathers of rock and roll!
as an extremely white and pale person I dont know who little richard is so he has to be right
L
🙄😒🤦🏿♂️
L
Being black is the freedom to carry yourself how ever you like respectfully. Not to be put in some lame ass box by white people and other black people
you should fix that
There’s a lot to learn and breakdown here, great stuff
"oh so knowing who little Richard is make you more blacker than me" that hit me hard btw im asian
Thanks yeah i was just about to ask. Can i see some proof of family lineage?
Race divide vs Class divide
Being black in America post-segregation is not the same as being black now. Anyone who opposes this view should know the difference.
Rather just not be black.
I actually had this exact conversation in different words with one of my friends. Just not the very last part offered some reason
He does have a point lol
Hell yeah, he does. Some white people have tougher struggles and hard time to make ends meet,while some rich blacks hate their own kind like Clarence thomas. He can relate more to black people's than his boss.
One of my favorite movies!!]👏👍👍
Street cred is legit.
Um filme inesquecível!
He ain't wrong though. I wish we had more people like Tony he's an upstanding guy who's trying to provide for his family and doesn't let prejudice rule his life. That's extraordinary especially if you consider how things were back then..
He IS wrong though.
Black people don't all have the same diet or same taste in music. He's assuming that black people all across America are exactly the same as the few black guys he's seen on the streets of NYC. It's a really childish way of looking at the world.
Its about the dufferent classes in society, not about skin color..
Yeah, but the rich black guy is still not allowed to eat at the same restaurant he played for, or even use the same bathroom for that matter. And not allowed to try on a suit he wanted.
@@proton8689The whole point being conveyed is that either side is equally shit
@@RunttzzSZN Is it? They're both treated bad. But one is a decent suit away from respect the other cannot buy.
@@proton8689 the whole point was he couldn't afford the suit
@@proton8689 if you really think buying a decent suit would buy respect your blissfully ignorant
yes black is more than a color😮
Neither are wrong or right.
Why’d you cut off the scene?
He's right
He’s not wrong
Who, Tony Lip or Don Shirley?
@@BillyButcher90 don Shirley
@@johnjpete822Well neither is Tony when discussing how different and more privileged Don's life is compared to Tony's and other black people.
Also, it's rich that Don isn't happy at having to call Robert Kennedy (who happened to be an attorney btw) to get him and Tony out of that county jail to attenuate assault charges, when Tony had to bribe some cops to release Don after that latter was caught gay cruising with another man in a public sauna. If it weren't for Tony, Don would be jailed and being charged with gross indecency. Don may be a well-mannered, moralistic, music genius but he doesn't seem politically savvy.
Look up a full vid so you get the end of this scene when Doc explains his isolation from both black and white cultures/communities. Cutting that just makes him look like an entitled prick instead of the artist torn apart by race relations in America.
I'd rather be a rich black guy than a broke white guy.
Careful what you wish for...
Lmao
@@AngelaKSellsHomesEntirely valid wish, if you think rich black men have it worse than poor white men, you're absolutely delusional.
You'd rather be lonely huh?
@@baffled_hawkp
I'm right & he's right too.
This man isnt wrong lol
Viggo has a point. All I'm sayin
White guy here who's little Richard fellas?
GREAT MOVIE 👍
Tony is "blacker."
❤❤😅
Bro did Don just gatekeep being black😂
Sheesh im so tired of AI generated subtitles. Like bro stfu and stop being lazy
That was sad.
I understand what they’re arguing but I also disagree with it. Living a certain lifestyle doesn’t make you black. The black guy is right, he should’ve handled his temper.
Just because the black guy enjoys nice things, and experiences the finer things in life doesn’t make him not black. Not being able to relate to poor black folk doesn’t mean you’re not black.
It just shows how stupid “race” is were all homosapiens
I grew up in a half black half white family and have a half black blood sibling, pero soy blanco
Thing is, certain lifestyles can put you out of touch of what the common lower earning people contend with every day. Not to say doctor Shirley is less black because of his luxury. As we saw, he still went thru abuse and hatred.
@@jacksonquinn8744 But the thing was, he went into some Southern All-White establishments, thinking he could get equal treatment when all it did was get him beat up by those bar racists or arrested when he had elicit activities with another man in a public sauna.
@@BillyButcher90 and yet he could have access to venues denied the common black folk of the time because of his reputation and skills. Yes, he was mistreated, but he didn't have it as bad as most poc in those days
*shouldn't have hit him