The Classic No Power Fix We All Love To See - LFC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ม.ค. 2024
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The failed cap was on the 19V rail, not on the 1.2V rail, so make sure you used a 25V rated cap and not a 6.3V one.
Exact capacitance doesn't matter that much if it's a few µF.
arrghh... Of course... I'm not sure how I missed that. I got so bamboozled by the schematic on this one that I lost track of where I was actually working.
At 23:50 I said "Let's look for the inductor because the caps are connected to it"
What I meant was: "...because those caps are part of that regulator"
Then once I had that in my head, I looked for output caps, not the input caps. 🤦♂️
But yea, I used 25v caps, so the repair was correct, just my schematic reading was completely off.
@@Adamant_IT I think it's one of these schematics that haven't been leaked as-is in full and instead just put together from various pieces by a third-party to sell. Better than nothing but it's quite messy and might not fully match the board.
Yea. It starts making sense when you read it right-to-left instead of the traditional left-to-right, but I didn't spot that in the heat of the recording moment. Bummer, but as you say, plenty of margin for error with bypass caps like these.
Chinese 😂
MLCC caps are generally rated at 50V so that's not normally an issue. Voltage rating can be distinguished by size so the easy way is to replace the cap with one that's the same physical size (height, width and depth) and that should guarantee the cap has the same basic specifications. Anyway, in this case there are already plenty of caps there so no need to replace it. One missing cap is like pissing in the ocean, won't make any difference either way if it's there or not.
I started my electrical engineering journey from your videos. I've since discovered Sorin, Northbridge Fix and Northwestrepair. I always seem to come back to your videos and learn something every time.
Northridgefix lol
Northwestrepair’s whole channel exists just to display his hate boner for MSI.
Lol , mr.Sorin from ElectronicRepairSchool NEVER replaces caps . I trust him , he has tons of experience . The only caps i've seen him replace were on small cellphone boards and he always replaces them with bigger ones without even messuring them .
He's a master . I watched almost all his videos . no capacitor no shorted capacitors easy beasy
Great work as usual, and explained with great clarity.
HDD + 4 GB RAM = opportunity to upsell to SSD + 8 - 16 GB :)
I do like your new style with the multimeter camera.
Great video. In South Africa we still fix them and use these laptops. New decent laptops are really expensive here
watching you hunt for a cap and tossing it into the rug reminds me of Sorin; "no cap, no shorted cap"..LOL
off to the 9th dimension
I know we kind of look down on this era of laptop but credit to all of the manufacturers: they were easily upgradeable with two RAM slots. A relative rarity in this segment now.
This is true... although IMHO that's not a reason to underspec laptops at the factory. The HDD is to be expected I suppose, but 4GB of RAM was poor well before this laptop was sold.
@@Adamant_IT Yeah, I'm pretty sure I even saw a 'new' 4GB laptop being sold recently in some sale.
Does it have an M2 slot? I think I saw one. I bought a Latitude of this era for a family member and just threw a cheap M.2 SSD in it and 8GB before giving it to them, still going strong.
Two slots doesn't mean that it can be upgraded to 8gb of ram. If it is a 32-bit architecture it would support max 4gb of ram.
@@RedDefender77 Yes but it isn't, it's a 2017 laptop and there's basically nothing out there running a 32 bit chip since the late 2000's.
@@lemagreengreen I had a HP laptop for 10 years, bought in 2009, it was a 32 bit system.
Adam, another fantastic video. Thank you for posting. Very informative.
His name is Grahm
Done watching, thank you very much for the informative repair video. I have learned significantly more troubleshooting & repair lessons in this tutorial video and to your other repair videos as well compared to my ENTIRE 4 YEARS OF COLLEGE due to the rotten & outdated standards of education here in the Philippines. I hope you will soon have a mini-series for Schematic & Boardview-free Voltage/Power Rail Tracing[12V/18-20V Main Voltage Rail, 5V, 3.3V, CPU/GPU Core Voltage Rail, DRAM Voltage Rail, IGPU Voltage Rail, System Agent/Northbridge Voltage Rail, PCH Voltage Rail, BIOS Voltage Rail, Battery Power Rail], Proper method of testing/checking of potentially faulty MOSFETs & ICs/Controller Chips, CPU/GPU/PCH Reballing and BIOS Bin File Editing.
The visible crack in the cap shows up after voltage injection. otherwise they don't always show because the PS usually shuts down before enough juice goes through them. cheers mate!
boot device not found is probably because bios was reseted and that laptop don't have uefi by default on so you need to turn it on manually and whole it will work :) "ps is see now you told that on end" :) BTW AMAZING VIDEO
2017 would be old if I had to support the software on it. I charge by the hour. If I am waiting for your computer to do things, it will quickly add up to the cost of the computer when I am working on it. When working on a computer that old, I will ask the customer if they would want to replace it or pay me to keep working on it. If I don't do that, they will come back six months later asking why I didn't suggest replacing it. Then they will want credit to a new PC. They don't get credit, I did a job and performed a service. I make it their choice and explain to them well what the options are.
Depending on the generation of the i3 it could be worth adding a cheap 4GB stick and an SSD. I have souped up worse potatoes for the £50 that would cost. We all tend to have much higher expectations than someone who has happily used this for email, word processing and a bit of internet browsing. They aren't expecting Cyberpunk 2077 at 60 fps.
Replacing the HDD with a SSD is ALWAYS worth it, even with only 4GB it will transform the laptop to a new experience for the user really.
@@Doman2000 Agreed, I just checked my estimate of £50 on Amazon.
Crucial RAM 4GB DDR4 2666MHz CL19 Laptop Memory CT4G4SFS8266 £14.78
Kingston A400 SSD Internal Solid State Drive 2.5" SATA Rev 3.0, 480GB - SA400S37/480G £31.59
I really can't see how spending the same money elsewhere gets a better result for the user.
I got psd for that squematic ( 24:00 ), i been trying to fix a similar laptop (1 year older) that doesnt output the 1.2v for the ram, and the part of the schematic i been stuck is a 1/1 copy of yours, apparently everything is shorted in that rail but nothing gets hot with injection, (1v 5a)
I remove EVERYTHING on that rail and the short remains, i dont know if its the ram socket itself or just a short between layers
You have the CPU on there as well.
You know this wouldn't be a bad laptop with an SSD and an extra stick of RAM and maybe Linux Mint instead of Windows. Plenty of horsepower for most day to day use.
What FLIR app are you using? I've been looking for a good one.
I wish that i had all that tech knowledge as i have an HP laptop that stopped charging and thought it was the battery so i got a spare one from ebay. It turned on and reinstalled windows so i thought that was it, but a while after i noticed it still wasn't charging and was close to shutting down... and it did giving no chance to check the bios and unfortunately it's one of those laptops that doesn't have a bios battery so i can't take one out to reset it. It's also frustrating that i have no way of charging the battery outside of the actual laptop.
What thermal camera you used bro
If you are worried about using hot air near sensitive components you can use a shield made from a drinks can or even just a coin to protect them.
Or put some kapton or aluminium tape over it. But I'm sure Graham knows this, he's just a bit lazy here.. 😁
Or a thermal pad. I always have one sitting there
Great video like always
I have MacBook A1502 start so slow after clean the mother board at ultrasonic
What you think make slow? I think some things in the board 😅
I format it but still the same😢
Any advice?!
The ssd I'd say or thermal paste didn't spread evenly
Hi! Do you use a particlar brand/supplier for your SMD capacitors or just some random ones of Amazon/Alixpress? Thanks.
eBay/China stuff. The spec on them will be a bit wonky, but for bypass caps they're fine.
i was just going to say to switch between uefi and bios boot to make the windows start.
To me that disk / windows issue is more interesting than fixing a couple caps. How did you get the HDD to work? Maybe a part 2 video?
Sometimes software and BIOS issues are maddening to fix.
Set the BIOS back to CSM (legacy) boot. I could make a video about converting legacy installs to UEFI, but 9/10 times if the windows install is old enough (or badly configured enough) to be legacy, you should do a clean install to make sure there's no weirdness in there. The simple method is; 1. make drive image of windows partition, 2. Clean install windows in UEFI mode, 3. Restore windows partition over the clean one, without altering the new system and restore partitions.
It's also possible to simply remake the system partitions as UEFI, but since you need to make a backup anyway, it's not meaningfully faster.
@@Adamant_IT .. Thank You!!! Excellent information and at least from my perspective it would be one hell of an interesting video to make and watch. Often the things that you think are mundane and uninteresting quite the opposite to those who don't know. 👍😎👍
Yea this is fair. This topic came up in the discord chat as well, and someone pointed out that there's quite a few older customer gaming PCs that will have janky windows installs on them that suffer weird UEFI/CSM problems. So there's probably mileage in making a video about this after all.
@@Adamant_ITyou would use backup sw like Acronis to make windows drive image? Not sure how to restore windows partiton over installed windows system partition without altering or breaking existing installation?
I think you may have misspoken about the CMOS battery going into a diode, causing further drop. I believe the CMOS battery is directly attached to the RTC (Real Time Clock) with no diode is series. Any switchover is done internally in the RTC chip. I looked at an offering from NXP and it can accept 1.2 to ~ 5 V. on the battery pin. Nothing wrong with changing the battery, but it probably has a lot more useful life as you were measuring it under load and with the load of the meter. Anyway, thanks for all your useful videos.
Depends on platform then I think... certainly for many platforms the strategy is a dual-diode with the batt on one side and charger/mains input on the other side. The charger/mains input is configured to be 3.3v, so when that's active most of the current draw into RTC will be from there, then when it's inactive, the current draw comes from Batt instead.
@@Adamant_IT You may be correct, the few RTCs I looked at had the switching internally, I looked at Maxim and NXP, they have a 3.3 V pin and a Vbatt pin, and a comparator internally to determine which source to use. According to Panasonic's website its CR2032 open circuit voltage is 3.1 V, so 2.99V is not too bad, especially since we don't know how much loading the circuit and meter provide. Anyway, thanks for your inputs.
@@SuperFredAZ There is no discrete RTC module in a laptop. The RTC circuit is part of the southbridge, so PCH in case of Intel (same package as CPU here but that's not relevant). In this case, the VCCRTC rail that feeds the PCH can go down to 2.0V.
However, as @Adamant_IT said, there is a dual diode between the coin cell battery and the PCH, typically a BAT54C, so that will create some voltage drop. The RTC circuit doesn't draw a lot of current, let's say 40µA at worst (generally it'll be closer to 10-15µA), so the voltage drop should stay below 100mV. There's also generally a current-limiting resistor, maybe of 1kΩ in series causing some additional voltage drop but still small (with these figures that'd be 40mV worst case).
All in all, 2.99V is perfectly fine but the coin cell battery still has seen several years of service so good opportunity to replace it anyway. And even though theoretically you could say it should work down to like 2.2V, I know for a fact that this can cause problems so better replace it when you see one that's a bit lower than 3.0V.
As for measuring "under load", i.e. in circuit, that's precisely what you want to do, because a bad battery may appear fine when there's nothing connected to it, but have a significant voltage drop when some current is drawn, in which case it doesn't do its job in supplying a proper voltage. There could also be a leaky dual diode or a bad PCH causing excessive current draw. The DMM itself should have 10MΩ input impedance (as long as you don't touch the probes with your bare fingers), so that's negligible (less than a µA).
While working with AirTags and old computers I found that new batteries have higher current-supply capacity in a low-resistance battery tester, and last longer in an AirTag, than old batteries sitting around for years (even if the voltage on a multimeter or multi-kohm tester doesn't agree). Just don't leave the button battery in the tester for over a minute or it will drain the battery for hours and leave it with less charge afterwards.
Let's see some twin pinecil action
Hi adamant it iv got a MacBook Air a1369 when I plug in the Mac turns on d see straight away showing white screen and chimes every couple of seconds any idea what this could be please 😊😊
have you got any aluminium tape?
I think I had this computer back in the day, and it had a similar problem
Hi Graham!
What do you think happened to the motherboard of a laptop that was powered with reverse polarity?
A power supply other than the original one was used and the polarity was reversed.
Do you think the motherboard can still be repaired or has irreparable damage occurred?
It is about a Lenovo G500.
Thank you in advance !
Quite likely a blown TVS diode at the DC input. Look for a diode connected in reverse right where the power comes into the laptop, and see if it's shorted.
@@Adamant_IT Thank you very much Graham !
On these SoC laptops, at the manufacturer, is there a less or lower concern about fully removing (cleaning) flux residue from the mobo?
To clarify, this one wasn't an SoC, it just looked like one at first because there was so little on the board. But yea, that flux residue you'll find on any laptop, sometimes the edge of a component was just sheltered enough to not get washed properly in the factory.
@@Adamant_IT thank you 🤓
if there was no power did you check the mains adapter first to make sure that was working
At this level of repair, I will assume that the tech is competent enough to make sure their charger works 👌
Surely an smd capacitor is metallic / ceramic? I wasn't aware of wood being used.
Wich Camera Are U Using On Your Phone ?
Infiray P2 Pro
most people dont know about cat brand smartphone Sir which is amazing for me beside hp laptop
More content Please Steve!
Always after resetting bios we have to wait until the "first" post
😄 Desoldering both, then loosing the good one? Now that's what you get if you don't go the Sorin route. You should maybe get a JBC nase-2C. Can't recommend it enough. It's such a fast thing to desolder everything that is SMD and has two joints only.
Come on.... no capacitor, no shorted capacitor!!!
Geeze it looks like that laptop is very old to use a harddrive as now all new laptops use ssd because HDD wont work properly in windows 11
Could we have a Pinecil repair video, please?
Gonna try, ye.
cmos batteries are supposed to be 3 volts so I don't think the battery was flat
It's powering a 3.3v circuit. It can sag low, but a lot of devices will start having issues when you go down into 2.9v. Sometimes you can sag really low without issue, but if the device is having problems, you want to make sure it's above 3.0v
cool
They're always 10uF, unless they aren't. 😅
i love lfc laptop videos but i miss the lfc on custom build desktops and re-case kind of videos.
I want to bring these back. Just not had many good examples on the bench last year - but hoping to make new content of this kind soon!
thats good to hear. thanks for the awesome videos.
I thought it was a "dy" laptop at first.
Both Pinecil's dead? How so?!
usually, "glowey bois" means something else on the internet. .> O.O
PC I'm watching this on had a shorted cap on the memory power rail. Too funny. Also found with injection.
woah what type of keyboard is that? it looks like a international us keyboard not the typical Uk layout
It's a Royal Kludge RK100. I tend to use US keyboards these days because ISO layout limits your choice of high-end keyboards quite a lot. It's hard to find keycap sets that properly support ISO.
@@Adamant_IT oh that makes sense
Nice to see that other companies fail other than Apple lol. Everyone seems to make it seem that only Apple makes tech that fails. Oh well. Let’s see more fixes for everything which is useful.
Get yourself some hot tweezers.
Do you really have to replace the caps? I've been wathich Electronics Repair School videos as well and he never replaces them and even explained why. I just want to know another point of view.
Most of the time the board will be fine without the cap, yea. But sometimes it won't, and if it causes a problem (like an unstable regulator that just resets itself at random) it's going to be a horrifying job to diagnose. Given how easy it is to replace most caps, IMHO it's a no-brainer to put a new one on the board.
In my early board repair work, I didn't replace because I didn't have the parts, but then I learned that there's only a couple of common parts you need to stock, and then it was no problem to actually complete the job instead of leaving it half-done.
Laptop of bs series speaks for itself 🤣
esi fix
SSD's are so cheap now there is litrally no excuse to run a HDD any more.
no way this laptop was a write off when the HDD was toast.
4GB extra DDR4 sodimm + 500GB M.2 Sata SSD (M.2 interface on this machine is probably SATA only, be mindful of that!) costs about £50.
The laptop is worth that, incl the ~1hr repair.
Surely this laptop is worth ~£200 if it has a 500GB SSD and 8GB inside it?
You can buy 2018-era Dell Latitudes with quad-core i5 CPUs, 8GB of ram, 256GB NVMe, 1080p IPS display for about £160 on ebay. This makes a lot of mid/late lifecycle laptops like this not worth overhauling IMHO.
If we take the board repair out of the equation, then yea I'd say this guy is worth the upgrade, but board repair should be £100 alone, not including labour for fitting upgrades. So in this case, it was more or less a make-good repair.
That is very cheap. Clearly I'm not up to speed (and I'm in the Netherlands, here prices might be different, but it's probably more that I'm not up to speed...)
The quad core mobile i5's (mostly 8250u I think for that budget) are way more useable than the dual core i3's.👍
sparten I thought the word was sparce
adam never replace a shorted capacitor (No capacitor no shorted capacitor).hhh also you do a favor to the customer this fault not to come back
You have to be certain on the purpose of the capacitor.
I know which channel you're referring to that gives out that advice, but it's incorrect.
Leaving out a bulk or decoupling capacitor can lead to an unstable device. That's definitely not doing the customer a favour.
EMI suppression caps are generally ok to omit.
Very unfair, just because of spinning HD and 1 stick of ram? Maybe the customer more likely doesn’t know this and he could upgrade his components or he may not have the money for upgrade, in any case, you’re being very judgemental and possibly be rude in making these comments
You're missing the point. It's bad value to dump money into a low-spec laptop. I'm not blaming the customer's life choices, I'm saying the laptop is low-spec and the customer shouldn't spend the £200 it would take to fix it and bring it up to spec - assuming I charged my worth to do that work.
You could DIY it for a lot less, but I'm not here to give people mate's rates.
@@Adamant_IT While it’s OK, I do understand that it may not be practical to repair given that it maybe too expensive, but merely saying it a few times doesn’t sound right. It could lead to a bad taste in other people’s mouths. But I do understand but some may not
Too much information