The only game that i find funnier than Undertale is The Stanley Parable. They just released a "remake"/"sequel" (which itself is a 4th wall break type joke in the game) called the Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe. Its a fantastic game that should definitely make it onto your list!
I've actually been looking at this and "The Beginners Guide" for the channel. I have played the Stanley Parable already, but back when it was a free HL2 mod. Thanks for watching! - Oli
As a big fan of Undertale, I was originally a bit sad that Oli ended up having such a negative reaction to the game, but watching on, it did make me realise I've been wearing rose tinted glasses. Obviously I still very much love the game, as it is one of my special interests and has arguably made me the person I am today, but listening to your guys' conversasion did make me somewhat understand Oli's prospective. Undertale is a good game, but a lot of its quality comes from it being played "correctly" (wether that being a true pacifist or genocide playthrough) so I've always just thought of the neutral endings as fun little bonuses with matching dialog that adapts to who you killed and who you spared, so in my so called tunnel vision I never really thought of the fact that yeah, actually, if you go in blind and play as you would any rpg, the ending probably feels quite dissatisfying and rubbish. Anyway, this was a great video and I really am glad that you guys didn't shy away from giving valid criticism.
Toby has actually mentioned before how he intentionally made the neutral ending bland and unsatisfying. The point is that even if a player is unaware of the pacifist route, it will make them want to replay the game and do things better by not killing for a more satisfying ending. Well, that was the intention anyway. Clearly it didn't work on Oli, which is a shame. 100% not his fault and I can see why he feels the way he does, but it does make a little more sense thinking of it from a developer's perspective.
Idk, I think Undertale is designed to be played twice. You’re not supposed to know “the correct way” to play, and thus neutral is the intended first ending before a replay. The second pacifist run is enhanced through perspective, and a lot of the jokes/meta commentary hits harder the second time, not to mention slight deviations, completely new scenes and a 2-3 hour long ending portion. Games like Nier Automata also require you to replay the game multiple times, and it wasn’t until after that replay that I truly loved the game and could enjoy the 4-6 hour ending chapter to the fullest. If you aren’t willing to replay the game, it just means the game itself wasn’t good enough to entice you, not just that the neutral ending is unsatisfying.
Yeah the genocide ending is where a lot of the popularity comes from. It really messes with you and makes you feel really bad for doing everything you do. And it does have the hardest bosses in the game (such as the sans fight) and I mean 10x harder than asgore. I personally think deltarune, the ‘second game’ (it’s not a sequel but an alternate universe) is quite a bit better. It just feels more refined and has more fun elements and a more fun story, mainly because it’s longer. However the game itself isn’t actually finished yet. Only 2 out of the 7 chapters are out. I highly recommend checking it out, although the fact that it isn’t finished and it may take another year or so for the next 3 chapters to release so that might put you off. I would love to see stampy stream it although it’s fine if he doesn’t. I just highly recommend it.
I completely understand Oli's main complaint about the game and it's definitely something to take into consideration when ranking it, but I feel like they were a bit too harsh on this one. When talking about Halo, Joe said he really enjoys the multiplayer, but it didn't end up high on the list because Oli reminded him that they were rating the game in its entirety, not only the multiplayer. I think that if they would have played Undertale some more and got a full picture of the game it would have been more fair. Anyway, love the podcast and can't wait to see more! :)
@@SPYROSTSABOURIS I do understand their complaints here, as someone who’s played the entire game and loved it. If you don’t immediately grasp the whole pacifist system, (which I think the majority of people would but still) the ending does feel kind of cheap. I personally got the neutral ending where you kill flowey and it made me so upset that I didn’t come back to the game for a year, which I would say is genuinely a flaw in the game.
I think the fact that there is a “bad ending” does have some weight to it. In a blind run, the most common endings (aka, the neutral endings where Flowey is killed or not killed) should be equally developed and not weaker than the special runs like the pacifist and genocide, since it would be the most common for an average player. I think the reason why the game is so loved despite having the chance of a blind run which ends unsatisfyingly is because of how it became ‘playground talk’ and had so many hints of possibilities and knowledge of the other runs that were absolutely everywhere in its heyday so lots of people who played in the hype were aware and could try those runs. But the issue with this is when the hype dies down, anyone just picking up the game to play won’t necessarily know those play styles exist and to have one of the more common runs be a bit disappointing is, what I feel, a flaw in it’s design. I mean, the game designer didn’t know it’d get so much attention and most likely didn’t plan for that so the fact that there is a common disappointing ending just seems _strange._ It’s almost as if the best experience relies on it having a community to give those hints and those pointers and that knowledge which doesn’t always happen with games, or relies on you wanting a more satisfying ending or enjoying the game so much to play it again. But that being said, it’d be unfair to entirely discredit the “good endings” which were really interesting and all the secret areas or occurrences. It’s just that those endings work because of the community and the ‘playground talk’ which the game luckily achieved. I think Undertale would be very different had it not gained that attention and not had the widespread awareness of all the little secrets or different routes. But the fact those secrets exist and all those things were thought about is one of the good parts of the game compared to other games. This was just a bit of a jotting down of some thoughts I got while listening to this podcast. If you read the whole thing, thanks and I hope it made an ounce of sense aha.
I only played Undertale for the first time last year, and I will say that the Flowey boss fight was my favorite fight in the game, so I was really surprised to hear Oli thinking it was lame. It's not my favorite part of the game entirely, the Pacifist ending is 100% the best part for me, but I love the fight as well as the music associated with it.
A little mistake you made: Oli probably killed flowey in the end instead of sparing him But if you spare him he tells you to reload your save file and don't kill anyone or become friends with papyrus, undyne and alphys So stampy didn't get the pacifist ending thanks to chat He got it because he spared flowey
13:58 aw come on, what sort of game would actually delete your entire save from dying in the final boss fight? nobody would like that. it would be bad game design. the way it's done is satisying enough, and creates an interesting element when the fourth wall is broken.
All I've ever heard about Undertale is praise and how amazing the game is but it was really interesting to listen to these different but still totally valid perspectives. Awesome video, you are true game critics!
This is so fascinating seeing an outside perspective on this especially today when when the hype isn't scalding hot. Certainly a very down to earth take since it's in retrospect. You bring up the flaw with games that have branching narrative/multiple endings which is something I've thought about a lot considering how plents of games do this in a way that disrespects their players' time and massively impacts their enjoyed experience depending on what outcome it ends with. Undertale is definitely aimed towards a very specific audience in the geek sphere and I believe its initial push that help kickstarted the game (both figuratively and literally with the Kickstarter campaign) was the creator's prior involvement and status within that geek culture, particularly with the Homestuck community which is something Toby made music for. You're definitely right that the "schoolyard legend" thing snowballed the game into popularity especially with the influence of TH-cam let's plays, so its audience skews heavily towards early adolescent people who may not be so familiar or experienced with the history of video games that play with expectations by being meta or being humorously written or having a morality system. However I think that its main appeal is the game's strongest point which is its characters and how they're written as well as the those little moments that are humorous. After listening to your conversation, I definitely agree that Undertale excells the most at being a comedy dressed up as a video game and not so much as a video game. The humor is brilliant but it being set within a game kind of hurts that experience if you aren't already in on the joke and are naturally willing to forgive all those qualities that make the game pretty inaccessible from outside of that fandom. Funnily enough, I have never even played the game myself and I quite enjoyed watching others play through it instead, so that experience definitely has contributed to my enjoyment since I've only experienced it through curated and edited videos that cut out the parts where you have to play through it all over again, but that's another discussion about the effect of TH-cam let's plays and livestreams and gaming culture and how much second-hand gameplay makes up the community.
Really good point about second-hand gameplay as they were talking about how Undertale got so popular. The fact it's a very Let's Player friendly game definitely helped - it's got comedy, isn't too long, and has moments that can act as exceptionally good thumbnails/titles/clickbait. And, I mean, just look at how many views series like Jacksepticeye's got - I imagine a large part of the fanbase has never played the game.
@@Frostyflytrap Thanks for letting me know. I remember playing this game somewhere online when I would search for free games as a kid. You've brought back a lot of good old memories.
That’s all true, but I think the biggest flaw with the game is that if you kill flowey (which logically you would if you had been doing a neutral run up until that point) you don’t get any pointers as to how to get the best ending. Even if you reset and go through again without killing anyone he just shows up again at the end and tells you to piss off. I don’t know how Toby Fox could’ve fixed this without making the good ending feel undeserved, it kind of seems like he wrote himself into a corner there. That being said, Undertale somehow still manages to be one of my favorite games of all time, and if that issue is fixed in the sequel (Prequel? Spin off? Side story?) then it could really be something special.
I know this episode came out a while ago but I've recently been getting back into Undertale and the question of "Why is the fanbase children?" and your thoughts on that interested me. When I got into Undertale it was 2016 and I was 12/13 and the fanbase was absolutely booming at that point. I think a lot of the popularity started with TH-camrs like Jacksepticeye bringing the game to life to already young audiences. I had a group of friends at school who were all absolutely obsessed with it. I think the humour of the game has hit me more now as an adult and it was more about the characters back then. I've noticed that teenagers even now are just fascinated with quirky characters. You see it in "comfort characters", and the internet's obsession with 'strange' characters. My friends each had their own favourite character and who we were (regrettably) nicknamed after. I haven't kept in touch with them since school but I did talk to "Papyrus" a while ago who instantly called me Sans again. But you had people like Jack giving the characters voices and intriguing that fascination with characters. I also think the soundtrack along with the story are one of those things you just get attached to as a kid. Even now when I listen to tracks like "Hopes and Dreams" and Flowey's theme plays and reminds you who Asriel is I actually get emotional. It's a very special game that a lot of kids were attached to and still are and I am sure they introduce more kids to it as parents tend to do when they want their kids to feel something amazing that they remember feeling. I introduced my younger brother to it. It's a feel-good game that you want to share. Anyway I'm just rambling because I remembered how much I used to love the game and I'm falling back down that rabbit hole!
i’m so happy i’ve been able to start watching “stampy” as himself, not to say that i don’t like the character you have made in your minecraft series buts it’s just cool to see you and your mate in your element just talking
Really enjoyed Joe's streams (and no, not just because of the game). I had a question: Do you think Undertale would have been better if it didn't have a separate pacifist and neutral ending (the pacifist ending would be the neutral ending), or would that ruin the whole "choice" aspect of the game? Genocide is like playing a whole different game altogether so it isn't in the comparison (btw I would recommend skimming over it online or something). Also just something I wanted to say (idk if its intentional), but I think it's kinda poetic that the ending in which you make friends with everyone and do the "right thing", is the most tedious and the ending where you kill everyone is the fastest and the least effort. Great podcast. Seeing that one day Ty the Tasmanian Tiger will make a redemption fills me with DETERMINATION.
The fact that the content is so missable makes it feel more special. A treasure hunt wouldn't be rewarding if what you were looking for wasn't hidden. That said, I feel like the expectation of multiple replays is a direct contraction of some of the game's core design. Your well thought out and interesting comment filled me with DETERMINATION! - Joe
Ik I'm way too late to the party, but I would be really curious of the reaction you would have to the genocide run. It's not just a bit different, it's almost a different game and you go through it much faster than the neutral or pacifist runs (probably intentionally because noone does genocide on their first run and to make a replay way less tedious)
Well, it kind of got popular _first_ and then TH-camrs started playing it. TH-camrs don’t play every indie game that ever gets released, I don’t remember seeing DanTDM play Omori.
On the subject of replayability, the main draw is that characters have (generally hazy) ideas of what you did on previous playthroughs and others outright remember. While I'm sure neither of you will replay the game, I think Oli would benefit massively from playing pacifist but Joe would probably only get value from genocide. Anyhoo, glad to hear some more opinions on one of my favourite games from two very entertaining people, excellent job! Edit: P.s Deltarune has a repeated mantra of Your Choices Don't Matter, and Chapter 1 has only one real ending. Chapter 2 technically has 2 endings with a ridiculously secret route that you really don't need to do and definitely won't do by accident. But yeah, if that helps either of you to make a decision on whether to play it - there you go! Apologies if I'm feeding into the stereotype of entitled Toby Fox fan.
As an undertale fan I reckon the popularity of the game stems from the community itself or how the fanbase's interactions with this game stemmed its potential for extended universe and community work. The amount of fan content, games, soundtracks is indescribably broad. The community despite its infamy can draw in loads of people, I'd recommend super eyepatch wolfs video on the community
Game Suggestion: OMORI. It's an Earthbound-Inspired RPG like Undertale, but it's much more mature and focuses on dark themes such as Trauma, Depression, Suicide, and the like. It's a longer game, but the characters are compelling and the story is beautiful and gut-wrenching (there's no nonsense to get the good ending like Undertale either, most people get it on their first playthrough). I highly recommend it, I'm new here, but I'd love to see you guys have a chat about it. Also, hint. DO NOT LOOK UP ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GAME! A single sentence online can completely ruin the story, as discovering the truth is the main point of the game. (also, as a side note, keep the main character's name as the default, it makes the story very weird when you don't)
This is so weird, I haven’t heard the name Herobrine mentioned in so long. But when Joe said his name and began talking about him I legitimately think I felt a chill go down my spine and my whole body froze.
I loved the podcast and respect your opinions on the game, especially Oli's. My first experience with Undertale was watching someone play the game and they got the pacifist run the first time through, which might have led me to have the same experience as Joe did. I understand your placement from the runs that you DID do, especially Oli who went into this completely blind, and as a result, the Flowey fight made absolutely no sense and hurt his experience. But, this game is meant to be played multiple times as you said, and even though I know replaying it seems tedious, it's necessary to understand the story in the long run and that omega flowey fight. The different runs give you insight into the character of Flowey and his omniscience, which I won't spoil here because that would take forever(and fingers crossed you might check it out :) ) but mainly for Oli and how the Flowey fight ruined his experience I would suggest playing through again or at least watching someone else play through the game and skipping the parts you've already seen. But the thing about Undertale is that it's a game that remembers what you've done in previous runs, especially for neutral. Boss monsters that you killed comment on if you killed them (discreetly but you'll know) and you won't have to do Flowey's fight again (showing his omniscience once more). And while pacifist is similar to neutral minus the fact that you free the monsters and you learn other aspects of the story, genocide is completely different where it tells you another side of the same story. It shows you the desperation of monsters(namely two), allows you to understand flowey and his fight better, and you learn more lore about the fallen human(though brief at the end). Plus as you mentioned in the podcast about Sans, his fight is ONLY in genocide and reveals a bit of the story behind him too and his - spoiler - omniscience like Flowey. But a word of caution, genocide is VERY grindy where you have to kill EVERY monster in the game that you can encounter with the random encounters, so if you're already put off of playing the game again I'd recommend watching a playthrough of that. I don't know if you can tell but I love Undertale and would hope to see you(more like hear of you) play it/experience it to its fullest extent. As I said, I don't mind the placement of Undertale from the experience you already had with it, but I would like to hear what you'd think of it after seeing what it has in store. I completely understand if, in the end, you don't want to play it again(or watch it) but as an avid Undertale fan I hope you consider giving it a second thought in the future with a more rounded point of view. Please don't take this as another crazy Undertale fan yelling at you on how to play the game (because the way you played it was very valid!), just as someone who loves your podcast and this game and wants to see Undertale being evaluated entirely. Thank you if you've read this. :)
I would agree but like I said to Rose. If you see it as a product and think about it critically. I would argue that everyone ( who wasn’t already spoiled ) would have the neutral ending and that Oli would be the general reaction. To say to a person in order to enjoy the game they have to do a pacifist run which is tedious to play again and harder without levels in order to see the good ending is kinda of a mid opinion. Undertale has not aged well and I’m saying it as a guy who once adored this game. Taking off the rose tinted glasses was a shock for me
I've never thought of someone getting the neutral ending and stopping there until now. That's honestly such a big flaw. Undertale assumes you will be obsessed with it to get the full experience. And not the full experience, as in if you do the other endings, you get "extra context" you plain out get the rest of the story. Not everyone will be completely obsessed with it, so most will plain out not "finish" it. Also, its just so funny to me that the neutral ending tries its hardest to be unsatisfying so you'll play for a better ending not at all realizing most people are just gonna close the game unsatisfied
Ehhh in my eyes its like getting halfway through a game and then stopping. Obviously not Olis fault as the game does technically end there, but its more a fake out than anything.
Awesome have been waiting for this! Watched Joe play It all and loved it all! i was actually surprised this wasn't higher on the list i would have put it anywhere from 1-3. But definitely understand why it is where it is.
Loved the podcast and I just wanted to say that deltarune undertales “sequel” is set in a universe where the war that sent monsters underground never happened so it’s the same monster characters but a different story to summarise deltarune is not a continuation of undertale but it shares characters
As a gamer who doesn’t have a huge big gaming budget, I really appreciated the multiple endings, each time you play you get to enjoy a different viewpoint, after my 6th ending Id rank undertale at 5th in my personal top 10 games I’ve played
I really hope Joe goes through the Geno route, as bad as it makes you feel and as "wrong" as it is, there's a lot of important content in it. Toby's also gone ahead and started working on a new game called Deltarune, with two of its chapters out currently, and it's honestly a lot better in terms of gameplay and the story is already chalking itself up to be eve better. Really hope Joe plays both!
Undertale is a game that is meant to be played a lot of times Every run is going to be different, not only in the game but also from the stuff you've learned from your previous run
I know this is like a year old video/podcast now, but I hope Toby Fox makes a more child friendly/censored version of Deltarune once more chapters come out. It's not *too* adult from the start either, so just changing some swear words to other words should work. For example, changing a certain word to "butt" or "bum" doesn't ruin a joke in the game. The game doesn't have any serious swearing either. I barely remember 3 occurences of any swearing or adult content. Also there may be some adult jokes, but they are cleverly hidden, like in cartoons. So they won't be too bad either. Either way, if Joe/Stampy won't stream it, just putting censor blocks on certain words in editing should work! Hoping to see some Deltarune, and enjoying this channel as well!
A game you could review in the future might be Ace Attorney. It's a fun, but VERY absurd visual novel where you play as Phoenix Wright, a rookie defense attorney and try to find your clients not guilty of usually murder. As I said, it's a very strange but enjoyable play if you like visual novels. The Switch, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One have the first three games in one collection, but each game is pretty long so I'd suggest only reviewing one game. Loved this podcast episode and the podcast in general, have a good day :)!
I believe the reason why UNDERTALE became so popular is because of it's a commentary on videogame design. With normal videogames, killing a monster doesn't really mean anything where as in UNDERTALE, your actions actually have consequences and the characters change what they say depending on what you've done. Some characters, especially Sans, say jokes and act how you'd think they would, but at certain points, they'll comment about actions you've taken in the game. Since UNDERTALE's release, there has been a lot of games released like it, and you can see its influence in many places, especially in indie videogames.
Hey, this comment is all well and good, but a quick side note: Just because Undertale is spelled in all caps on the title screen, and Toby Fox spells Undertale in all caps in his weird quarterly newsletters, doesn’t mean you need to say “UNDERTALE” every time you refer to it. It kinda feels like you’re yelling at me. That’s all, this is your first offense so we’re gonna let you off the hook for this one. *quietly steps back into grammar police car and drives off*
(Spoilers for other runs ahead) A interesting thematic thing I feel like you guys missed without doing the genocide run and other runs/options, is that the the game has a tendency to punish the player for trying to find every part of the game and squeeze it dry for content. The pacifist run gets into it a little bit with Flowet’s ending monologue when you open the game back up, the whole “let them be happy, let them live their lives” but playing the game again really emphasizes it. Characters hazily remember that everything has already happened, Flowey encourages you to twist their lives to see what happens. And it’s most noticeable in the genocide run, which is punishing and tedious throughout, and commentates on a the player’s desire to cause so much fictional pain just to see what happens. It all plays into this great idea of your actions having consequences, and it’s pretty interesting. I definitely recommend looking up some of the other endings to get a better picture of what the game has to say over all, but it’s been super fun to hear your thoughts and watch through Joe’s streams.
Looking back on it yeah photoshop flower does kinda suck as a final boss. Like he's xonpletely useless and all his appeal purely comes from shock value. Ashore such a perfect poetic ending and then flower comes and ruins it all purely for the shock value
Deltarune is a lot different than Undertale in the fact that you can't play the game "wrong". There's only one ending (from what we've seen and been promised so far), and everyone can basically get the same experience without googling. The only things you can really "miss" are the hidden superbosses of each chapter and the hidden route of Chapter 2. The Chapter 2 hidden route is purposefully veeeery hidden (so hidden, in fact, it took the community 2 days to even confirm that it was real) and doesn't really affect the story. The superbosses are extremely difficult and also don't affect the main story in any significant way, but those are the only things I would really consider at all "missable". So, when the full game comes out, I'd say definitely play it. (keep in mind, this is written just for chapter 1 and 2, so this may change in the future) Edit: I forgot to mention, there's also a lot of changes to the battle system to make it more interesting! There is 3 party members, so you can strategize when to heal and when to progress the fight (handy on boss fights) and also no random encounters. You only need to spare each enemy once in chapter 1 to get the good ending, but you need to spare like 5 in chapter 2.
I'm late here cause I only just completed Undertale for myself, but yeah it's a real shame Oli got the ending he did... if only he didn't kill that single dog lmao, his opinion would be sooo much higher. The true end expands on and fixes pretty much all the issues he had. Not his fault though, I never really considered that the neutral ending is where most people would stop playing if they go in blind. There should've been a more satisfying ending with a lot more closure for the casual players. The pacifist ending was phenomenal and genuinely made me emotional, which rarely happens with video games. Would've been so nice for more people to be able to experience it.
Hey Oli, take this DETERMINATION. It’s dangerous to go alone into the comment section… A lot of people are salty with your decision. Just to let you know I am full of DETERMINATION that you experienced the game well and don’t let the negative comments sway you brother. Don’t you dare go hollow on me
If you want a fun game that's similar to Undertale and Earthbound, try OMORI! It's a long game and it's a psychological horror game but its an awesome game!
Fat agree. They should 100% play it but I don’t think Oli would be able to handle such raw emotions… I sure as hell didn’t - I most definitely stayed up countless nights after what I saw in that game…
Great podcast guys. Really enjoyed hearing both of your takes on the game. I think you would equally appreciate the genocide path. While the few bosses are a lot harder than anything experienced in the normal playthrough, it's a satisfying experience overall.
So glad you guys played this game! Undertale means a lot to me and I get so happy when I see others enjoying it too. I think the reason I liked it so much was because I was the perfect age for it. Old enough to understand the jokes and parodies but young enough to still be in school and hear those “playground rumors”. I think the popularity of let’s plays was what mainly contributed to the games success online. I was a teenager when the game came out and every person that remotely liked video games at my high school was talking about it in 2015. 4th wall breaks seemed to be very popular in games at the time too. Fanart was very widespread as well. I’m an artist and all the amazing characters are super fun to draw. The music is also very popular. I love game soundtracks so hearing some of the tracks was actually how I got into the game. There’s just so much I can say about Undertale because I just love it so much. Thanks so much for playing and discussing it! I really hope you guys try out Deltarune as it’s quite different from Undertale, but it still has Toby Fox’s humor and music.
This was basically my experience too. I only found out about this game through DanTDM’s let’s play. It was incredibly popular during 2015 and almost all the kids at my school were talking about it. To be honest the fan base that grew around it was honestly quite disgusting and from playing it myself I 100% agree with Oli that the ending was just awful. Omega Flowey scarred my 9 year old self. The music, characters and story was great, I loved the countless lore videos and secrets this little game had to offer. However the ending that I got (neutral) really soured the experience.
Just got hit with a sickness. Bored out of my mine. And this saved the day! I love this game so much. It’s so fun and the interactions with the characters are hilarious!
Deltarune is drastically different to undertale and isnt about choice it focuses on characters and gameplay, Atleast check out the first few minutes of the first chapter of deltarune because it really does show the progress the team and toby has made since undertale came out
I personally think its fair points overall, for me I never saw the appeal of Undertale, but then again this came out when I was moving away from these sorta games to more shooter games such as Prey, so I can see it has an audience but I wouldn’t say that audience is maybe there anymore. And I think when you come and review well these sorta games with cult followings, theres always going to be a level of expectation from viewers for you to have the same opinion as what they had, so its refreshing to see that you have more a counter opinion in some ways to this game. But i do think thats the benefit of coming back to games when all the hype has calmed down. Hope you both are doing well, another good episode, and keep up the great work!
I didn't realize until now but thanks for naming me also its pronounced drac- you-nyayawn like Dracula nya yawn. Thank for saying my name it really made my day
Undertale's replay value depends on you're curiosity. Your curiosity is the only thing that will bring you back to the game. What happens when you kill every monster? what happens when ya pick a different route. What happens when you disconnect you're controller in the Xbox version. If you're not interested in that, it can feel like a chore... Also I really recommend playing deltarune. No spoilers but they removed random encounters so its easier to explore. There's just one main ending. Also I really wanna see stampy do a let's play of it... please... :D
Deltarune doesn't have other runs like undertale, it does have a secret way to change the run in the second chapter but it's not necessary to get more out the game, I think it's better for blind players than undertake in my experience
did deltarune have adult humor?? i don’t remember if it did. i remember it saying ass and damn a couple times but so did undertale, so if joe did wanna play it on stream i don’t think it would be too bad but i know his main channel is def more family friendly so i understand either way
I had someone advise me that it has some more adult language. I think sometimes it's down to different cultures finding different words offensive. America seems much stricter than the UK.
OH one of the big reasons this game got so popular is because sans/megalovania (the song that plays when you fight sans in genocide) got memed a lot, I knew the song by heart years before I ever played
I knew what it was because my friend loved it and I only played in 2020 after finally watching a dan and phil letsplay in quarantine (using her game file for my switch lol) and wanted to see if I could kill the hard things or find secrets or whatevervin my playthrough
No plans to do a podcast on Elden Ring anytime soon I am afraid. We have already discussed it so much privately we would feel like we are repeating ourselves. We may be streaming it here though!
Oh apparently Oli had the option to get the actual ending if he went back to alphys like stampy did so what he thought was restarting the game was just continuing it, maybe it wasn't explicit enough for him so he didn't wanna continue, maybe if he goes back he'll see if the game starts up at Asgores place and he can do it there (I'm guessing he won't tho because he sounds kinda stubborn about it lol)
I hope one day The Bonus Points covers a game like RDR2 or the Just Cause series. They're some of my favourite games and I think they'll be something different.
While I think your interpretation of the snail joke is really interesting, I think you might have misread the text. The snail is counting dollar bills implying that he sold his shell to the other person, and I’m pretty sure that’s the joke. Not quite as deep lol. But there are definitely other parts of the game that go into similar societal commentary.
Well the implication is that the snail sold the shell to the rich guy, they were just saying that the joke goes deeper than that. _I just realized I’m hyper analyzing a snail joke from a game that came out 9 years ago what is my life_
You don’t actually have to do a full replay of the neutral route to get the pacifist ending! While it’s true you do have to replay most of it, you can skip about an hour of gameplay in your second neutral playthrough along with any time you would spend talking to all the NPCs and working out puzzles.
So the Sans fight is exclusive to the Genocide run, so makes sense neither of them got it. And I'd say the main reason I think this game is popular is the coverage on TH-cam. Loads of large TH-camrs who just so happen to have the same age demographic you see around this game had very successful series on it. And I guess anyone older were able to grow out of it quickly.
Genocide is definitely harder, I couldn't get past undynes genocide fight so I haven't even tried sans but I've seen others do it and it's difficult BUT entertaining (+the music is good obviously)
I honestly hope oli plays or watches the pacifist run as it puts everything together, just doing the neutral run is like eating a cake without mixing the ingredients.
I understand why you wouldn’t want to just coming from the neutral run though. If you weren’t intrigued enough by the game to want to get a better ending, then seeing the better ending wouldn’t do much for you.
Game is great until the tonal shift at the end. Also it’s crazy how Even when you only kill one enemy you can’t get the pacifist ending. Like can the player not grow
The whole point of the game is it’s an RPG that treats violence like how it’s treated in real life. Speaking from experience, you don’t usually get the good ending if you only kill 1 person in real life. I do understand how it would be frustrating having to play the game all over again to get the good ending if all you did was make 1 mistake early on, but the game doesn’t really work without punishing you for that. At least it’s shorter the second time around though.
You can't really expect people to research something that's for enjoyment. Sure Undertale has a massive amount of content that they'll probably never see, which is disheartening - but what they got was the experience the game gave them.
@@sarusan6995 You are told everything you need to know about the game within the first few minutes, there’s an NPC in one of the first rooms who all but tells you about the pacifist run. It’s just a matter of whether or not you listen.
I agree with Thunder. But in the podcast they were talking about how Delterune was more “adult”. I’m not sure what they are talking about . Maybe visuals of violence (ending for Chapter 1) but I honestly can’t recall, maybe I’ve missed something?
The only game that i find funnier than Undertale is The Stanley Parable. They just released a "remake"/"sequel" (which itself is a 4th wall break type joke in the game) called the Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe. Its a fantastic game that should definitely make it onto your list!
I've actually been looking at this and "The Beginners Guide" for the channel. I have played the Stanley Parable already, but back when it was a free HL2 mod. Thanks for watching! - Oli
@@thebonuspoints I would love to see you guys to The Beginners Guide! It's one of my favorites and definitely warrants some discussion after playing.
i think deltarune is funnier then undertale but thats just my opinion!
As a big fan of Undertale, I was originally a bit sad that Oli ended up having such a negative reaction to the game, but watching on, it did make me realise I've been wearing rose tinted glasses. Obviously I still very much love the game, as it is one of my special interests and has arguably made me the person I am today, but listening to your guys' conversasion did make me somewhat understand Oli's prospective. Undertale is a good game, but a lot of its quality comes from it being played "correctly" (wether that being a true pacifist or genocide playthrough) so I've always just thought of the neutral endings as fun little bonuses with matching dialog that adapts to who you killed and who you spared, so in my so called tunnel vision I never really thought of the fact that yeah, actually, if you go in blind and play as you would any rpg, the ending probably feels quite dissatisfying and rubbish. Anyway, this was a great video and I really am glad that you guys didn't shy away from giving valid criticism.
I agree with everything you said
Toby has actually mentioned before how he intentionally made the neutral ending bland and unsatisfying. The point is that even if a player is unaware of the pacifist route, it will make them want to replay the game and do things better by not killing for a more satisfying ending. Well, that was the intention anyway. Clearly it didn't work on Oli, which is a shame. 100% not his fault and I can see why he feels the way he does, but it does make a little more sense thinking of it from a developer's perspective.
Idk, I think Undertale is designed to be played twice. You’re not supposed to know “the correct way” to play, and thus neutral is the intended first ending before a replay. The second pacifist run is enhanced through perspective, and a lot of the jokes/meta commentary hits harder the second time, not to mention slight deviations, completely new scenes and a 2-3 hour long ending portion. Games like Nier Automata also require you to replay the game multiple times, and it wasn’t until after that replay that I truly loved the game and could enjoy the 4-6 hour ending chapter to the fullest. If you aren’t willing to replay the game, it just means the game itself wasn’t good enough to entice you, not just that the neutral ending is unsatisfying.
Yeah the genocide ending is where a lot of the popularity comes from. It really messes with you and makes you feel really bad for doing everything you do. And it does have the hardest bosses in the game (such as the sans fight) and I mean 10x harder than asgore.
I personally think deltarune, the ‘second game’ (it’s not a sequel but an alternate universe) is quite a bit better. It just feels more refined and has more fun elements and a more fun story, mainly because it’s longer. However the game itself isn’t actually finished yet. Only 2 out of the 7 chapters are out. I highly recommend checking it out, although the fact that it isn’t finished and it may take another year or so for the next 3 chapters to release so that might put you off. I would love to see stampy stream it although it’s fine if he doesn’t. I just highly recommend it.
I completely understand Oli's main complaint about the game and it's definitely something to take into consideration when ranking it, but I feel like they were a bit too harsh on this one. When talking about Halo, Joe said he really enjoys the multiplayer, but it didn't end up high on the list because Oli reminded him that they were rating the game in its entirety, not only the multiplayer. I think that if they would have played Undertale some more and got a full picture of the game it would have been more fair. Anyway, love the podcast and can't wait to see more! :)
I agree
When you rank 50% of a game, it's not really fair, is it?
@@SPYROSTSABOURIS I do understand their complaints here, as someone who’s played the entire game and loved it. If you don’t immediately grasp the whole pacifist system, (which I think the majority of people would but still) the ending does feel kind of cheap. I personally got the neutral ending where you kill flowey and it made me so upset that I didn’t come back to the game for a year, which I would say is genuinely a flaw in the game.
after watching him play this i had to go watch someone who’s good at games play it. good episode boyz
SAVAGE
@@thebonuspoints I dont get it im stupid help
@@QUBIQUBED meaning Joe is not good at the game and struggled so they want to see someone that is good at video games play it
@@adamsouth05 ahaha I get it now
I think the fact that there is a “bad ending” does have some weight to it. In a blind run, the most common endings (aka, the neutral endings where Flowey is killed or not killed) should be equally developed and not weaker than the special runs like the pacifist and genocide, since it would be the most common for an average player.
I think the reason why the game is so loved despite having the chance of a blind run which ends unsatisfyingly is because of how it became ‘playground talk’ and had so many hints of possibilities and knowledge of the other runs that were absolutely everywhere in its heyday so lots of people who played in the hype were aware and could try those runs. But the issue with this is when the hype dies down, anyone just picking up the game to play won’t necessarily know those play styles exist and to have one of the more common runs be a bit disappointing is, what I feel, a flaw in it’s design. I mean, the game designer didn’t know it’d get so much attention and most likely didn’t plan for that so the fact that there is a common disappointing ending just seems _strange._ It’s almost as if the best experience relies on it having a community to give those hints and those pointers and that knowledge which doesn’t always happen with games, or relies on you wanting a more satisfying ending or enjoying the game so much to play it again.
But that being said, it’d be unfair to entirely discredit the “good endings” which were really interesting and all the secret areas or occurrences. It’s just that those endings work because of the community and the ‘playground talk’ which the game luckily achieved. I think Undertale would be very different had it not gained that attention and not had the widespread awareness of all the little secrets or different routes. But the fact those secrets exist and all those things were thought about is one of the good parts of the game compared to other games.
This was just a bit of a jotting down of some thoughts I got while listening to this podcast. If you read the whole thing, thanks and I hope it made an ounce of sense aha.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head, thanks for watching
I only played Undertale for the first time last year, and I will say that the Flowey boss fight was my favorite fight in the game, so I was really surprised to hear Oli thinking it was lame. It's not my favorite part of the game entirely, the Pacifist ending is 100% the best part for me, but I love the fight as well as the music associated with it.
A little mistake you made:
Oli probably killed flowey in the end instead of sparing him
But if you spare him he tells you to reload your save file and don't kill anyone or become friends with papyrus, undyne and alphys
So stampy didn't get the pacifist ending thanks to chat
He got it because he spared flowey
He got the neutral ending that doesn't happen during that ending
@@ramon6816 actually that is the only ending this happens
I'm taking about the choice to spare or kill flowey
@@SPYROSTSABOURIS ohhh I see what you mean my bad
13:58 aw come on, what sort of game would actually delete your entire save from dying in the final boss fight? nobody would like that. it would be bad game design. the way it's done is satisying enough, and creates an interesting element when the fourth wall is broken.
*Oneshot intensifies*
I’ll be fair though, that wouldn’t work in a game where that’s not the entire gimmick the game is based around.
All I've ever heard about Undertale is praise and how amazing the game is but it was really interesting to listen to these different but still totally valid perspectives. Awesome video, you are true game critics!
Just so you know, stampy experienced about 40% of all the content in this game
Much of it is repeated content though
This is so fascinating seeing an outside perspective on this especially today when when the hype isn't scalding hot. Certainly a very down to earth take since it's in retrospect.
You bring up the flaw with games that have branching narrative/multiple endings which is something I've thought about a lot considering how plents of games do this in a way that disrespects their players' time and massively impacts their enjoyed experience depending on what outcome it ends with.
Undertale is definitely aimed towards a very specific audience in the geek sphere and I believe its initial push that help kickstarted the game (both figuratively and literally with the Kickstarter campaign) was the creator's prior involvement and status within that geek culture, particularly with the Homestuck community which is something Toby made music for. You're definitely right that the "schoolyard legend" thing snowballed the game into popularity especially with the influence of TH-cam let's plays, so its audience skews heavily towards early adolescent people who may not be so familiar or experienced with the history of video games that play with expectations by being meta or being humorously written or having a morality system. However I think that its main appeal is the game's strongest point which is its characters and how they're written as well as the those little moments that are humorous. After listening to your conversation, I definitely agree that Undertale excells the most at being a comedy dressed up as a video game and not so much as a video game. The humor is brilliant but it being set within a game kind of hurts that experience if you aren't already in on the joke and are naturally willing to forgive all those qualities that make the game pretty inaccessible from outside of that fandom.
Funnily enough, I have never even played the game myself and I quite enjoyed watching others play through it instead, so that experience definitely has contributed to my enjoyment since I've only experienced it through curated and edited videos that cut out the parts where you have to play through it all over again, but that's another discussion about the effect of TH-cam let's plays and livestreams and gaming culture and how much second-hand gameplay makes up the community.
Really good point about second-hand gameplay as they were talking about how Undertale got so popular. The fact it's a very Let's Player friendly game definitely helped - it's got comedy, isn't too long, and has moments that can act as exceptionally good thumbnails/titles/clickbait. And, I mean, just look at how many views series like Jacksepticeye's got - I imagine a large part of the fanbase has never played the game.
@@thunderweirdo That is all very true. We probably should have discussed the content creator impact more in the podcast.
I recognize that game in your pfp but forgot the name
@@Ratigan2 It's based on the game Feed Me by Nitrome.
@@Frostyflytrap Thanks for letting me know. I remember playing this game somewhere online when I would search for free games as a kid. You've brought back a lot of good old memories.
I think the neutral ending is supposed to suck to make you want to look into the other endings and replay the game to get the other endings.
Man that was my experience and resulted in souring my experience with the game. Hated that omega flowey fight and sequence - awful way to end it
That’s all true, but I think the biggest flaw with the game is that if you kill flowey (which logically you would if you had been doing a neutral run up until that point) you don’t get any pointers as to how to get the best ending. Even if you reset and go through again without killing anyone he just shows up again at the end and tells you to piss off. I don’t know how Toby Fox could’ve fixed this without making the good ending feel undeserved, it kind of seems like he wrote himself into a corner there.
That being said, Undertale somehow still manages to be one of my favorite games of all time, and if that issue is fixed in the sequel (Prequel? Spin off? Side story?) then it could really be something special.
I know this episode came out a while ago but I've recently been getting back into Undertale and the question of "Why is the fanbase children?" and your thoughts on that interested me. When I got into Undertale it was 2016 and I was 12/13 and the fanbase was absolutely booming at that point. I think a lot of the popularity started with TH-camrs like Jacksepticeye bringing the game to life to already young audiences.
I had a group of friends at school who were all absolutely obsessed with it. I think the humour of the game has hit me more now as an adult and it was more about the characters back then. I've noticed that teenagers even now are just fascinated with quirky characters. You see it in "comfort characters", and the internet's obsession with 'strange' characters. My friends each had their own favourite character and who we were (regrettably) nicknamed after. I haven't kept in touch with them since school but I did talk to "Papyrus" a while ago who instantly called me Sans again. But you had people like Jack giving the characters voices and intriguing that fascination with characters.
I also think the soundtrack along with the story are one of those things you just get attached to as a kid. Even now when I listen to tracks like "Hopes and Dreams" and Flowey's theme plays and reminds you who Asriel is I actually get emotional. It's a very special game that a lot of kids were attached to and still are and I am sure they introduce more kids to it as parents tend to do when they want their kids to feel something amazing that they remember feeling. I introduced my younger brother to it. It's a feel-good game that you want to share.
Anyway I'm just rambling because I remembered how much I used to love the game and I'm falling back down that rabbit hole!
i’m so happy i’ve been able to start watching “stampy” as himself, not to say that i don’t like the character you have made in your minecraft series buts it’s just cool to see you and your mate in your element just talking
Really enjoyed Joe's streams (and no, not just because of the game). I had a question: Do you think Undertale would have been better if it didn't have a separate pacifist and neutral ending (the pacifist ending would be the neutral ending), or would that ruin the whole "choice" aspect of the game? Genocide is like playing a whole different game altogether so it isn't in the comparison (btw I would recommend skimming over it online or something). Also just something I wanted to say (idk if its intentional), but I think it's kinda poetic that the ending in which you make friends with everyone and do the "right thing", is the most tedious and the ending where you kill everyone is the fastest and the least effort. Great podcast. Seeing that one day Ty the Tasmanian Tiger will make a redemption fills me with DETERMINATION.
The fact that the content is so missable makes it feel more special. A treasure hunt wouldn't be rewarding if what you were looking for wasn't hidden.
That said, I feel like the expectation of multiple replays is a direct contraction of some of the game's core design.
Your well thought out and interesting comment filled me with DETERMINATION! - Joe
Ik I'm way too late to the party, but I would be really curious of the reaction you would have to the genocide run. It's not just a bit different, it's almost a different game and you go through it much faster than the neutral or pacifist runs (probably intentionally because noone does genocide on their first run and to make a replay way less tedious)
I think a huge part of how the game reached a younger audience was that so many popular youtubers were playing it at the time
Well, it kind of got popular _first_ and then TH-camrs started playing it. TH-camrs don’t play every indie game that ever gets released, I don’t remember seeing DanTDM play Omori.
On the subject of replayability, the main draw is that characters have (generally hazy) ideas of what you did on previous playthroughs and others outright remember. While I'm sure neither of you will replay the game, I think Oli would benefit massively from playing pacifist but Joe would probably only get value from genocide. Anyhoo, glad to hear some more opinions on one of my favourite games from two very entertaining people, excellent job!
Edit: P.s Deltarune has a repeated mantra of Your Choices Don't Matter, and Chapter 1 has only one real ending. Chapter 2 technically has 2 endings with a ridiculously secret route that you really don't need to do and definitely won't do by accident. But yeah, if that helps either of you to make a decision on whether to play it - there you go! Apologies if I'm feeding into the stereotype of entitled Toby Fox fan.
As an undertale fan I reckon the popularity of the game stems from the community itself or how the fanbase's interactions with this game stemmed its potential for extended universe and community work. The amount of fan content, games, soundtracks is indescribably broad. The community despite its infamy can draw in loads of people, I'd recommend super eyepatch wolfs video on the community
Game Suggestion: OMORI. It's an Earthbound-Inspired RPG like Undertale, but it's much more mature and focuses on dark themes such as Trauma, Depression, Suicide, and the like. It's a longer game, but the characters are compelling and the story is beautiful and gut-wrenching (there's no nonsense to get the good ending like Undertale either, most people get it on their first playthrough). I highly recommend it, I'm new here, but I'd love to see you guys have a chat about it.
Also, hint. DO NOT LOOK UP ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GAME! A single sentence online can completely ruin the story, as discovering the truth is the main point of the game. (also, as a side note, keep the main character's name as the default, it makes the story very weird when you don't)
This is so weird, I haven’t heard the name Herobrine mentioned in so long. But when Joe said his name and began talking about him I legitimately think I felt a chill go down my spine and my whole body froze.
I loved the podcast and respect your opinions on the game, especially Oli's. My first experience with Undertale was watching someone play the game and they got the pacifist run the first time through, which might have led me to have the same experience as Joe did. I understand your placement from the runs that you DID do, especially Oli who went into this completely blind, and as a result, the Flowey fight made absolutely no sense and hurt his experience. But, this game is meant to be played multiple times as you said, and even though I know replaying it seems tedious, it's necessary to understand the story in the long run and that omega flowey fight. The different runs give you insight into the character of Flowey and his omniscience, which I won't spoil here because that would take forever(and fingers crossed you might check it out :) ) but mainly for Oli and how the Flowey fight ruined his experience I would suggest playing through again or at least watching someone else play through the game and skipping the parts you've already seen. But the thing about Undertale is that it's a game that remembers what you've done in previous runs, especially for neutral. Boss monsters that you killed comment on if you killed them (discreetly but you'll know) and you won't have to do Flowey's fight again (showing his omniscience once more). And while pacifist is similar to neutral minus the fact that you free the monsters and you learn other aspects of the story, genocide is completely different where it tells you another side of the same story. It shows you the desperation of monsters(namely two), allows you to understand flowey and his fight better, and you learn more lore about the fallen human(though brief at the end). Plus as you mentioned in the podcast about Sans, his fight is ONLY in genocide and reveals a bit of the story behind him too and his - spoiler - omniscience like Flowey. But a word of caution, genocide is VERY grindy where you have to kill EVERY monster in the game that you can encounter with the random encounters, so if you're already put off of playing the game again I'd recommend watching a playthrough of that. I don't know if you can tell but I love Undertale and would hope to see you(more like hear of you) play it/experience it to its fullest extent. As I said, I don't mind the placement of Undertale from the experience you already had with it, but I would like to hear what you'd think of it after seeing what it has in store. I completely understand if, in the end, you don't want to play it again(or watch it) but as an avid Undertale fan I hope you consider giving it a second thought in the future with a more rounded point of view. Please don't take this as another crazy Undertale fan yelling at you on how to play the game (because the way you played it was very valid!), just as someone who loves your podcast and this game and wants to see Undertale being evaluated entirely. Thank you if you've read this. :)
Well said!
@@roselydiapage702 Thank you :)
I would agree but like I said to Rose. If you see it as a product and think about it critically. I would argue that everyone ( who wasn’t already spoiled ) would have the neutral ending and that Oli would be the general reaction. To say to a person in order to enjoy the game they have to do a pacifist run which is tedious to play again and harder without levels in order to see the good ending is kinda of a mid opinion. Undertale has not aged well and I’m saying it as a guy who once adored this game. Taking off the rose tinted glasses was a shock for me
@@sarusan6995 I can see where you are coming from and I thank you for the comment :)
@@saqqaranoble3371 appreciate it ,thanks! ☺️
And I really hope you had a wonderful time with the game
I've never thought of someone getting the neutral ending and stopping there until now. That's honestly such a big flaw. Undertale assumes you will be obsessed with it to get the full experience. And not the full experience, as in if you do the other endings, you get "extra context" you plain out get the rest of the story. Not everyone will be completely obsessed with it, so most will plain out not "finish" it. Also, its just so funny to me that the neutral ending tries its hardest to be unsatisfying so you'll play for a better ending not at all realizing most people are just gonna close the game unsatisfied
The problem is that if you kill flowey, nothing happens to encourage you to play again
Ehhh in my eyes its like getting halfway through a game and then stopping. Obviously not Olis fault as the game does technically end there, but its more a fake out than anything.
Sans is the final fight of the Genocide run of Undertale were you kill every monster till there is none left
Awesome have been waiting for this! Watched Joe play It all and loved it all!
i was actually surprised this wasn't higher on the list i would have put it anywhere from 1-3. But definitely understand why it is where it is.
Same here
I would agree but critically, I don’t think it stacks up to the top 3. Great game though, I would rank it in the middle of the tier just below ooblets
Thanks for another AMAZING episode! Also Oli and Joe as Skeletons in the thumbnail LOL!!
Loved the podcast and I just wanted to say that deltarune undertales “sequel” is set in a universe where the war that sent monsters underground never happened so it’s the same monster characters but a different story to summarise deltarune is not a continuation of undertale but it shares characters
As a gamer who doesn’t have a huge big gaming budget, I really appreciated the multiple endings, each time you play you get to enjoy a different viewpoint, after my 6th ending Id rank undertale at 5th in my personal top 10 games I’ve played
Ok, but would you put it above or below _Mr. Driller: Drill Land?_
I really hope Joe goes through the Geno route, as bad as it makes you feel and as "wrong" as it is, there's a lot of important content in it. Toby's also gone ahead and started working on a new game called Deltarune, with two of its chapters out currently, and it's honestly a lot better in terms of gameplay and the story is already chalking itself up to be eve better. Really hope Joe plays both!
Undertale is a game that is meant to be played a lot of times
Every run is going to be different, not only in the game but also from the stuff you've learned from your previous run
Loved the streams, glad you guys enjoyed it overall, one of the best games of all time in my opinion. Great episode.
I know this is like a year old video/podcast now, but I hope Toby Fox makes a more child friendly/censored version of Deltarune once more chapters come out.
It's not *too* adult from the start either, so just changing some swear words to other words should work.
For example, changing a certain word to "butt" or "bum" doesn't ruin a joke in the game.
The game doesn't have any serious swearing either. I barely remember 3 occurences of any swearing or adult content. Also there may be some adult jokes, but they are cleverly hidden, like in cartoons. So they won't be too bad either.
Either way, if Joe/Stampy won't stream it, just putting censor blocks on certain words in editing should work!
Hoping to see some Deltarune, and enjoying this channel as well!
A game you could review in the future might be Ace Attorney. It's a fun, but VERY absurd visual novel where you play as Phoenix Wright, a rookie defense attorney and try to find your clients not guilty of usually murder. As I said, it's a very strange but enjoyable play if you like visual novels. The Switch, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One have the first three games in one collection, but each game is pretty long so I'd suggest only reviewing one game. Loved this podcast episode and the podcast in general, have a good day :)!
Id recommended a separate play through on genocide because it’s almost a completely different game
I believe the reason why UNDERTALE became so popular is because of it's a commentary on videogame design. With normal videogames, killing a monster doesn't really mean anything where as in UNDERTALE, your actions actually have consequences and the characters change what they say depending on what you've done. Some characters, especially Sans, say jokes and act how you'd think they would, but at certain points, they'll comment about actions you've taken in the game.
Since UNDERTALE's release, there has been a lot of games released like it, and you can see its influence in many places, especially in indie videogames.
Hey, this comment is all well and good, but a quick side note:
Just because Undertale is spelled in all caps on the title screen, and Toby Fox spells Undertale in all caps in his weird quarterly newsletters, doesn’t mean you need to say “UNDERTALE” every time you refer to it. It kinda feels like you’re yelling at me.
That’s all, this is your first offense so we’re gonna let you off the hook for this one.
*quietly steps back into grammar police car and drives off*
@@nintendovirtualboywastakenfsr uhh ok
(Spoilers for other runs ahead) A interesting thematic thing I feel like you guys missed without doing the genocide run and other runs/options, is that the the game has a tendency to punish the player for trying to find every part of the game and squeeze it dry for content. The pacifist run gets into it a little bit with Flowet’s ending monologue when you open the game back up, the whole “let them be happy, let them live their lives” but playing the game again really emphasizes it. Characters hazily remember that everything has already happened, Flowey encourages you to twist their lives to see what happens. And it’s most noticeable in the genocide run, which is punishing and tedious throughout, and commentates on a the player’s desire to cause so much fictional pain just to see what happens. It all plays into this great idea of your actions having consequences, and it’s pretty interesting. I definitely recommend looking up some of the other endings to get a better picture of what the game has to say over all, but it’s been super fun to hear your thoughts and watch through Joe’s streams.
Looking back on it yeah photoshop flower does kinda suck as a final boss. Like he's xonpletely useless and all his appeal purely comes from shock value. Ashore such a perfect poetic ending and then flower comes and ruins it all purely for the shock value
Hearing one of my favorite childhood TH-camrs talk about one of my current favorite games is something I never expected to happen but I’m glad it did
Let's Go! I've been looking forward to this episode!
Something you guys might appreciate about Deltarune is that it doesn’t have random encounters.
Deltarune is a lot different than Undertale in the fact that you can't play the game "wrong". There's only one ending (from what we've seen and been promised so far), and everyone can basically get the same experience without googling. The only things you can really "miss" are the hidden superbosses of each chapter and the hidden route of Chapter 2. The Chapter 2 hidden route is purposefully veeeery hidden (so hidden, in fact, it took the community 2 days to even confirm that it was real) and doesn't really affect the story. The superbosses are extremely difficult and also don't affect the main story in any significant way, but those are the only things I would really consider at all "missable". So, when the full game comes out, I'd say definitely play it. (keep in mind, this is written just for chapter 1 and 2, so this may change in the future)
Edit: I forgot to mention, there's also a lot of changes to the battle system to make it more interesting! There is 3 party members, so you can strategize when to heal and when to progress the fight (handy on boss fights) and also no random encounters. You only need to spare each enemy once in chapter 1 to get the good ending, but you need to spare like 5 in chapter 2.
I'm late here cause I only just completed Undertale for myself, but yeah it's a real shame Oli got the ending he did... if only he didn't kill that single dog lmao, his opinion would be sooo much higher. The true end expands on and fixes pretty much all the issues he had. Not his fault though, I never really considered that the neutral ending is where most people would stop playing if they go in blind. There should've been a more satisfying ending with a lot more closure for the casual players. The pacifist ending was phenomenal and genuinely made me emotional, which rarely happens with video games. Would've been so nice for more people to be able to experience it.
Hey Oli, take this DETERMINATION. It’s dangerous to go alone into the comment section…
A lot of people are salty with your decision. Just to let you know I am full of DETERMINATION that you experienced the game well and don’t let the negative comments sway you brother.
Don’t you dare go hollow on me
If you want a fun game that's similar to Undertale and Earthbound, try OMORI! It's a long game and it's a psychological horror game but its an awesome game!
Omori is a brilliant game that you guys should check out, although it is a horror and has some heavy themes.
I think if they play omori they are gonna need some tissues while talking about it
Fat agree. They should 100% play it but I don’t think Oli would be able to handle such raw emotions…
I sure as hell didn’t - I most definitely stayed up countless nights after what I saw in that game…
after watching all the livestreams on VOD im here to watch this
Great podcast guys. Really enjoyed hearing both of your takes on the game. I think you would equally appreciate the genocide path. While the few bosses are a lot harder than anything experienced in the normal playthrough, it's a satisfying experience overall.
So glad you guys played this game! Undertale means a lot to me and I get so happy when I see others enjoying it too. I think the reason I liked it so much was because I was the perfect age for it. Old enough to understand the jokes and parodies but young enough to still be in school and hear those “playground rumors”. I think the popularity of let’s plays was what mainly contributed to the games success online. I was a teenager when the game came out and every person that remotely liked video games at my high school was talking about it in 2015. 4th wall breaks seemed to be very popular in games at the time too. Fanart was very widespread as well. I’m an artist and all the amazing characters are super fun to draw. The music is also very popular. I love game soundtracks so hearing some of the tracks was actually how I got into the game. There’s just so much I can say about Undertale because I just love it so much. Thanks so much for playing and discussing it! I really hope you guys try out Deltarune as it’s quite different from Undertale, but it still has Toby Fox’s humor and music.
This was basically my experience too. I only found out about this game through DanTDM’s let’s play. It was incredibly popular during 2015 and almost all the kids at my school were talking about it. To be honest the fan base that grew around it was honestly quite disgusting and from playing it myself I 100% agree with Oli that the ending was just awful. Omega Flowey scarred my 9 year old self. The music, characters and story was great, I loved the countless lore videos and secrets this little game had to offer. However the ending that I got (neutral) really soured the experience.
Really looking forward to this!
Just got hit with a sickness. Bored out of my mine. And this saved the day! I love this game so much. It’s so fun and the interactions with the characters are hilarious!
The reason stampy was annoyed about the fights is because he did check the monsters
Deltarune is drastically different to undertale and isnt about choice it focuses on characters and gameplay, Atleast check out the first few minutes of the first chapter of deltarune because it really does show the progress the team and toby has made since undertale came out
Not liking Undertale is just objectively wrong. So cheers to Oli for finalizing the green light for this game.
@@GGiln Bro. T'was merely a humorous remark...
Maybe not the best delivery, but an attempt at a joke nonetheless.
@@bankerduck4925 Sarcasm is notoriously difficult in text to be fair
@@thunderweirdo Cheers for understanding.
@@thunderweirdo _oh_ yeah, it’s _soooo_ difficult, it’s not like you can _italicize text_ or anything, of _course_ not.
That thumbnail though. Both Papyrus and Sans being Joe and Oli. Both being especially bad at puns. Gotta love it 🙏🙏🙏
I personally think its fair points overall, for me I never saw the appeal of Undertale, but then again this came out when I was moving away from these sorta games to more shooter games such as Prey, so I can see it has an audience but I wouldn’t say that audience is maybe there anymore. And I think when you come and review well these sorta games with cult followings, theres always going to be a level of expectation from viewers for you to have the same opinion as what they had, so its refreshing to see that you have more a counter opinion in some ways to this game. But i do think thats the benefit of coming back to games when all the hype has calmed down. Hope you both are doing well, another good episode, and keep up the great work!
I didn't realize until now but thanks for naming me also its pronounced drac- you-nyayawn like Dracula nya yawn. Thank for saying my name it really made my day
I also mispronounced it in the Warcraft episode! Sorry about that. - Oli
@@thebonuspoints its fine it happens more then you think trust me
You guys should play it takes two together and rank it
Undertale's replay value depends on you're curiosity. Your curiosity is the only thing that will bring you back to the game. What happens when you kill every monster? what happens when ya pick a different route. What happens when you disconnect you're controller in the Xbox version. If you're not interested in that, it can feel like a chore...
Also I really recommend playing deltarune. No spoilers but they removed random encounters so its easier to explore. There's just one main ending. Also I really wanna see stampy do a let's play of it... please... :D
You should checkout undertale yellow it’s a prequel of the original undertale and I think you would enjoy it
It’s only really enjoyable to superfans of the game, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone else who isn’t a terminally online autist like myself.
You guys have gotta do Hollow Knight it’s the best game Ive ever played. Its a fun metroidvania with great characters and lore!!
Joe said he has already played the game
Deltarune doesn't have other runs like undertale, it does have a secret way to change the run in the second chapter but it's not necessary to get more out the game, I think it's better for blind players than undertake in my experience
ooo driver san francisco coming up, i love that game, havent heard about it in ages (Undertale should be higher on THE LIST ;))
did deltarune have adult humor?? i don’t remember if it did. i remember it saying ass and damn a couple times but so did undertale, so if joe did wanna play it on stream i don’t think it would be too bad but i know his main channel is def more family friendly so i understand either way
I had someone advise me that it has some more adult language. I think sometimes it's down to different cultures finding different words offensive. America seems much stricter than the UK.
OH one of the big reasons this game got so popular is because sans/megalovania (the song that plays when you fight sans in genocide) got memed a lot, I knew the song by heart years before I ever played
I knew what it was because my friend loved it and I only played in 2020 after finally watching a dan and phil letsplay in quarantine (using her game file for my switch lol) and wanted to see if I could kill the hard things or find secrets or whatevervin my playthrough
you keep mentioning elden ring… such a tease. when’s the elden ring posdact coming out?? :D
No plans to do a podcast on Elden Ring anytime soon I am afraid. We have already discussed it so much privately we would feel like we are repeating ourselves.
We may be streaming it here though!
I’m so excited to watch I loved the streams and this game in general!!!!!
Undertale boss tier list
If i'm not mistaken Oli didn't actually finish the game. You have to boot the game back up and it continues to the next part of the game
The moment I saw stampy in the thumbnail not knowing he had a podcast I went crazy and just had to click
I absolutely love Undertale but I definitely thought the middle somewhere on the list (it's also one of the only games I know on the list)
so excited to see this!!:)
There is a video that talks about the undertale Fandom
I think it will make you understand the game and why it became so popular a lot better
Oh apparently Oli had the option to get the actual ending if he went back to alphys like stampy did so what he thought was restarting the game was just continuing it, maybe it wasn't explicit enough for him so he didn't wanna continue, maybe if he goes back he'll see if the game starts up at Asgores place and he can do it there (I'm guessing he won't tho because he sounds kinda stubborn about it lol)
I hope one day The Bonus Points covers a game like RDR2 or the Just Cause series. They're some of my favourite games and I think they'll be something different.
While I think your interpretation of the snail joke is really interesting, I think you might have misread the text. The snail is counting dollar bills implying that he sold his shell to the other person, and I’m pretty sure that’s the joke. Not quite as deep lol. But there are definitely other parts of the game that go into similar societal commentary.
Well the implication is that the snail sold the shell to the rich guy, they were just saying that the joke goes deeper than that.
_I just realized I’m hyper analyzing a snail joke from a game that came out 9 years ago what is my life_
You don’t actually have to do a full replay of the neutral route to get the pacifist ending! While it’s true you do have to replay most of it, you can skip about an hour of gameplay in your second neutral playthrough along with any time you would spend talking to all the NPCs and working out puzzles.
Ahhh I love you guys together
Hi stampy will you play breath of the wild 2 when it releases?
he said he was going to for sure, but wasn't sure if he would stream or record it
So the Sans fight is exclusive to the Genocide run, so makes sense neither of them got it. And I'd say the main reason I think this game is popular is the coverage on TH-cam. Loads of large TH-camrs who just so happen to have the same age demographic you see around this game had very successful series on it. And I guess anyone older were able to grow out of it quickly.
the experience with the ending is game design the neutral ending is meant to be less satisfying
I loved this episode, and watched you play it Joe, you know when you said soon you’ll be doing the Last Of Us, is it the first game?
Yep, we will be discussing the original with a special guest.
You guys should play *Amanda The Adventurer*. It's a wonderful Dora the Explorer fangame with so many worlds to explore! Go check it out!
ive never played undertale, but i love the music, and want the game so bad
It's not really most common with "kids", mostly teenagers really.
Teens are merely big children, and adults even bigger children.
this was the fishiest episode yet
I don’t recall any fish in the episode.
Sans fight is genocide only
Genocide is definitely harder, I couldn't get past undynes genocide fight so I haven't even tried sans but I've seen others do it and it's difficult BUT entertaining (+the music is good obviously)
I honestly hope oli plays or watches the pacifist run as it puts everything together, just doing the neutral run is like eating a cake without mixing the ingredients.
I understand why you wouldn’t want to just coming from the neutral run though. If you weren’t intrigued enough by the game to want to get a better ending, then seeing the better ending wouldn’t do much for you.
Please do a Titanfall 2 eposode
Hi
Could you play the game oneshot
Its an amazing game and i recommend you play it
You wont regret playing the game and thats all i can say
Im playing undertale right now and Im doing a genocide run Im at temmie land
Can't wait to see The Last of Us
Game is great until the tonal shift at the end. Also it’s crazy how Even when you only kill one enemy you can’t get the pacifist ending. Like can the player not grow
The whole point of the game is it’s an RPG that treats violence like how it’s treated in real life. Speaking from experience, you don’t usually get the good ending if you only kill 1 person in real life.
I do understand how it would be frustrating having to play the game all over again to get the good ending if all you did was make 1 mistake early on, but the game doesn’t really work without punishing you for that. At least it’s shorter the second time around though.
aye yall should play deltarune
It's wierd hearing stampy call himself Joe
I know that is his actual name but still
It would be nice if you researched the game more and then give your opinion on the game in its entirety
You can't really expect people to research something that's for enjoyment. Sure Undertale has a massive amount of content that they'll probably never see, which is disheartening - but what they got was the experience the game gave them.
@@thunderweirdo yeah you're right...
At the end of the day, this is a product and if it relies on pre assumptive knowledge to fully enjoy it. I would argue it isn’t a very good game…
@@sarusan6995 You are told everything you need to know about the game within the first few minutes, there’s an NPC in one of the first rooms who all but tells you about the pacifist run. It’s just a matter of whether or not you listen.
JOE GARRET???!!!???
Hello
Here at 730 views.
Okay
Now do deltarune🔫😈
They probably won't, which is fine. They both seem like they've got a lot of stuff to get through.
I agree with Thunder. But in the podcast they were talking about how Delterune was more “adult”. I’m not sure what they are talking about . Maybe visuals of violence (ending for Chapter 1) but I honestly can’t recall, maybe I’ve missed something?
@@sarusan6995 oh now that you mention it susie swear a but
@@sarusan6995 *bit*
@@astrothecoin28 well then I’m sure it’s fine. Joe was probably being dramatic!🤣