Warning: If you're fussy about character spoilers, I talk about the fates of mothers in about 40 different games in this video (the fate is usually that they're dead). If this will cause you to exclaim "Ah! Spoilers! You're the worst!" maybe skip this one. I don't think I've given away anything too shocking or unexpected though. Also, there are a bunch of credits in the description if you want to check those out.
The answer is simple: father roles have real life consequences. Dads can be punished or suffer greatly, encouraging fatherhood. We, sadly, live in a society where motherhood is never held under the same scruples. Sure, there are exceptions but in general
The new game "A Plague Tale: Innocence" has a young heroine looking after her sick younger brother. It is not a mother-son relationship, but it fills some of the void mentioned in your video. I anticipate you playing and reviewing this.
I'm 2 years late, but I really liked this video. Such a fresh and pertinent take on the issue. I never really thought about the general portrayal of mothers in video games but you hit the nail on the head. And I liked the way you presented it. It was a refreshing and genuine. The kind of thing you'd go to TH-cam for.
This a fantastic video, Pam. I am really impressed with all of the points and footage you were able to get for this. Mom characters definitely get the short end of the stick. One of my favorite games mentioned here (KQ7) features Valanice in a mother role and you also play her, but the fact that I can't name too many others off-hand is really telling. Even more obscure is a mother daughter team like her and Rosella. Valanice is a little emotional but she sure does go to the ends of the universe for her daughter.
@@Cannotbetamed1 The Big Daddy "Dad" cracked me up :) I loved this video. Really insightful observation about the lack of Moms, I totally didn't clock this trend.
Honestly, I always play fallout 4 as the mom but get sidetracked looking for jr. A God of War style game with a bad ass mom training Boy would be awesome!. Keep up the good work.
Wonderful, pitch-perfect video essay, Pam. I wish everyone understood that commentaries like this are valuable because we love the medium and want to see it thrive to its fullest potential. I cannot stand the notion of "games have grown up" because our grisly antihero hunks now have children in tow and clinical depression. So, this topic was beyond refreshing to see handled so well.
As someone who has worked in the videogame industry for 18 years, this has given me a lot to think about. I'm not exactly in a position to decree that the next game is all about a mom but I'll see if I can enlighten others the way you have for me. Thanks!
I enjoyed the heck out of this. It's one of those ideas where I think "It can't be that bad" but through your examples and categorization, I'm left saying "Oh damn, it's pretty bad". Like how King's Quest 7 is a high point for mothers in video games. Very eye opening, and to top it off, there's that cartoon of you at the end standing next to a Golden Retriever. If I hadn't already subbed halfway through the video, that would have clinched it. Keep up the great work :D
I was legitimately laughing every time i heard the "Dad" and "Dead" sound effects in this video! I was hoping you would mention one of my favourite game series, Silent Hill. Many playable dads and missing moms in those games. Very good points made throughout, the fact that mothers in games are so underrepresented is strange and something which should indeed change.
In my opinion, the best videogame mother is "The Boss" from the Metal Gear Solid saga. Without her, the development of the series wouldn't exist. She's the "boss" of all mothers in games...as of yet.
I know I already commented on Twitter, but engagement and all that jazz. I just wanted to say that I loved this video, funny with a really interesting topic to boot.
Interesting indeed. I hope the gaming industry becomes more willing to make playable protagonists moms as opposed to just dads. There was a 2011 DS game called Monster Tale, which I heard was controversial among publishers because of the choice to make the lead a young girl. The director of the game reportedly said: "This choice was actually somewhat controversial with some publishers. Our experience was that many publishers are looking to avert the risk of a main character that hasn’t been proven to capture large audiences. As a result, there was some concern from publishers that Ellie should change to a male or a more mature/sexy female." Makes me wonder if many developers consciously decide make the protagonist a dad, along with a dead mom, out of believing that this is the type of scenario that will appeal to large audiences the most, as opposed to the more "risky" decision of making the protagonist a mom.
I know I'm super late to the party, but I just found your channel and have been watching a ton of your videos. Great video and great points. I know she kinda falls under the "fighting game" section, but I think Ana from overwatch is a great mom character. Shes an senior member of the team, and older woman, a healer and mom to the team who looks over everyone, and a literal mom to Pharah. Shes my favorite overwatch character lore-wise.
Welcome to the channel! I don't really consider Overwatch characters as all of the backstory behind them is presented external to the game, aside from a few voice lines that indicate Ana is Pharah's mother.
Girls have always been heroes in video games. It's not a new thing. Unless a story is about a mother who had her baby stolen, you won't find a mom as a lead protagonist in a game. If a mother was a badass before, but now has a grown kid, naturally the child will be the hero, being younger than his 30+ year old mother... but, it would be a kinda cool if a game were designed where the player thinks he is the son of a badass maternal figure, but dies moments into the story and mom comes out of retirement in a nihilistic mind set consumed with getting revenge, and expecting to die trying to avenge her child's death. Good thinking Pam..
This is such an interesting gamic topic! Actually, it's an interesting social topic. It's very telling that it's taken this long to get someone to point out the obvious. Great video.
This video was extremely important and It was funny how I knew some of the examples you talked about just as soon as you mentioned the tropes they belonged to (like pokemon and earthbound mothers). Was expecting a mention of The Binding of Isaac, though.
Thanks! I tried to stay away from indie games to limit the scope (and length) of the video, though I did use some music from Binding of Isaac as a little hat tip in the monsters section.
There is the french game Eqqo, which is adapted from african tales. The narrator all along the game is the mom supporting his blind child in his adventures.
Yep. Moms are dead and birth is gross. That's what a whole room of dudes only gets you when you make a game. I mean, I love Bloodborne. Ithink it's the best game in history, but it has a whole thing with menstruation, birth, monsters and cosmic horrors. I really hope things change.
video game moms are like disney moms. its great that you pointed out this represantation issue that not many even are aware of (including me). well done, thank you.
This video is great: incredible when you lay it all out, not to mention thought-provoking. I tried to think of my own list but have only come up with Rakuen so far... that said I haven't finished the game and have NO idea if the protag's mother lives to see the end! Oh dear. Anyways, I think I'll be mulling over this one for a while so thank you for the brain fuel!
This is my favorite video of all the Cannot Be Tamed fare. I showed it to a couple friends the other day and they liked it too, but one of them sort of objected to using horror games to draw from (like it's a flawed pool to draw examples of mothers from). I disagree though. Even the most graphic thing in this video is right in line with stuff from The Second Sex where de Beauvoir lists many nasty examples of things men have written about women's bodies. Aside from that it wasn't until I watched this that I understood how incredibly rare it is to have a powerful compassionate mom one can play as in a game. I guess it makes sense. I once took a motherhood class in college which educated me on how attacked mothers are in U.S. culture. I can think of many films I love that have mom protagonists, but games... Thanks for the heart opening video!
Detroit: Becomes Human deserves more credit for being one of the only games to focus on a mother/daughter relationship. The whole “big strong dads with fragile little girls” is getting a little cliche and obnoxious. There’s a lack of the mother/daughter dynamic.
Even with more female focused stories and more female writers, it sadly seems to me that mothers and motherhood just aren’t valued and respected by society in general these days, let alone in video games. It’s not a complete lack of representation though, for ex. I just finished RE2 remake yesterday and Claire’s storyline with Sherry was all about that motherly instinct. I thought it was handled well too, as Claire is an undeniable ass-kicker and tough as nails, but the game still values her for having those soft traits that we typically associate with females - that nurturing, protecting maternal instinct that makes women so unique and important in human development. It kinda bothers me how modern society and a large part of the feminist movement seems to shun women for still embracing those traditional parts of womanhood, and instead teaching them that only traditional male associated traits like physical strength, independence etc. are valuable. I think women can still be tough, career oriented etc. and still be great mothers, and we should show more respect for motherhood than we do now. Birth rates, marriages, and instances of couples having & raising children are plummeting across Western society because we just don’t respect the importance of these things anymore.
Although I agree with some of your points, I have to say: the reason why fathers are so common in games is because often times in real life, fathers are... just terrible. The idea of a present and loving mother is the standard and yet for fathers being caring and loving is the exception not the rule. Now, do I want to see more mothers? Yes. And as your video showed, it is time for a bit of a shakeup in the industry.
'Why aren't there more mothers"? The answer is simple. Because 1) Video game mechanics still focus very heavily on feats of physicality and aggression -- two areas for which men are much more biologically suited and 2) males are still the overwhelming majority of the non-casual video game audience.
Great video! I'd also like to add two extra-monstrous, vampire moms: in Vampire: the Masquerade: Redemption, your character gets turned into a vampire by the grotesquely deformed Ecaterina the Wise, very much against your wishes. She then spends a lot of time using you as a blunt force weapon against her enemies. Then there's Harriett Jones, the (also-horribly-deformed) vampire in Vampyr. She's the mother of another (horribly deformed) vampire lady, as well as the penultimate boss of the game. When defeated, it pops The Morrigan, a blood goddess who's described as the Mother of all Vampires, so that's an extra monster Mom, thrown in for fun. Oh! One more bonus: if you play a guy in Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines, your Sire is a woman (though only hideously deformed if you're a Nosferatu), who gets, you guessed it, killed first thing in the game.
If you want to change, study hard and become a game developer, while only men are willing to do so, at least in the companies I worked for, it is very difficult to find a female developer, I would love to have more variety in this industry.
HOLY SHIT PAM you KNOCKED THIS VIDEO OUT OF THE PARK. Funny enough I happen to be doing research on video game moms for "reasons" and came across your video. And when you mentioned motherly monsters I thought Parasite Eve...or mothers who are alive but die (Breath of Fire II). Like it's insane... You just did so good with these piece. Well researched, thought out and articulated. BRAVO SISTA!!!
I listened to this one because you mentioned it on the CGG podcast! Thanks for the great video. It occurs to me that the very odd PrincessMaker series is all about raising a daughter but it isn't until later iterations when you can actually play as a mother (not that it makes a difference with that type of game, probably!).
Depends but to assume that one person represents controlling the whole company is quite an accusation to assume while others that complain and portray to enforce that everything is offensive is just some person complaining over 1st world problems like a child and wants to dicate
Yeah, video games are filled with Sad Dads. Mothers rarely get to be complex people with their own stories. Mothers are expected to be perfect, while dads are allowed to be flawed. Her only role is to be a mother, while fathers are allowed to have lives outside of their children. The whole “big strong man has to protect the innocent little girl” trope is getting a little overused.
3 games: Okay, it never came to me that we play as a few father figures. 7 games: Well damn, this many? 20 games: GAWD DAYAMN!!! Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK?!!! All father figures!
Can't help but laugh at the fact that the female reproductive system is used for horror shock in most stories. Like men are going "oh that's so icky! You have a little person coming out of you like a chest burster!"
its the idea of the Unkown inside you and the gross feeling of some parasite just like how we have things inside us that can be harmful if we dont take care of ourselves thus even real creatures have been proven to have grown inside humans that are parasites.
Great video. Kinda didn't notice how few mother characters there are in video games, never mind decent ones. I'd love to see a game in the vain of God of War or Nier or something, but from a mother's perspective. Those games are great (and while the dad trope is used a lot now, I think GoW is extra interesting because most of the time it's a father/daughter relationship we see in games and not a father/son one) but yeah, more moms, please! Does The Boss from MGS count as a mother, though? She was pretty cool... though she's dead too.
Horizon Zero Dawn had a good mother and daughter dynamic I think. Still I think it's mostly because the people writing are men, for example God Of War, the director has said openly its because he became a dad.
SPOILER for Life Is Strange 1 and 2: If you choose the "sacrifice Arcadia" ending, Chloe Price's mom is revealed to be dead in the second-last episode of Life Is Strange 2.
Really good video, Pam. This is something that I have never thought about, and you are correct. I guess the only reason that this has never been an issue I realized before is simply because, even when there are stories focused on Dads it doesn't really matter much to me either. But this was a very good look at the history of parents in gaming.
Bayonetta 1" was fantastic, like play an Anime at the same time, love the story and character. Never played the other ones cuz of the different consoles, good video pAm
I don't disagree that the matronly presence rarely being explored in video games, however I can understand the reason that the trope for the patriarchal exists. Typically the idea of a man nurturing a child by themselves is a foreign concept, especially to the character but also the predominantly male audience of the player character role. Often times boys and girls alike idolize their fathers who were "the great hero" or "champion" in games because typically that mindset of masculine hero has never really gone away. The most positive/negative examples of father and child that I can think of within recent date being God of War 4. Kratos, a man who has known nothing but violence for multiple lifetimes is thrust into the role of being a single parent, the sole person responsible for his son's protection and guiding him to adulthood. The very same game explores the relationship between mother and son with the relationship between Freya and Baldur. The difference between the two being that Freya did everything to protect her son, so much so that it triggered unbridled resentment and Kratos is teaching his son to protect himself, passing on his knowledge, while there is friction at times, it is not murderous. Most writers use their stories as an outlet for their relationships implementing a interpersonal dynamic between two characters into their work. I can't say why the writers of most gaming stories and other content depict mothers negatively if at all. Mayhaps it has to do with their personal relationship with their mother or perhaps it's story telling. I leave that stuff up to Freud and the psychological community. Good video CbT!
But that still involves you trying to sideline when there is such a thing that there can be bad mothers and a statistic proven of majority out of bias and making out to always try blaming one side when the other is no different. If one has bad cases then the other just as much which is why funny enough more women are defending males and bringing up toxic femininity and toxic feminism and other forms of extreme ideology and others involving unfair bias that gives mothers and women the slap on the wrist
@@alexk7880 Where in my comment was anyone sidelined? If anything I wrote this is a testament to the fact that a writer is attempting to establish a thought provoking narrative. CBT is very correct, mothers are not present in games frequently and the most recent example I could think of at the time was GoW. I even stated that Freya attempted to do what she thought was right by her son and so was Kratos. Their methodology was different. I cannot state whether their intent was right or wrong. I am not this fictional character, the writer, or in the same heightened circumstances. If you want to talk about something being sidelined, you may be sidelining the topic of having a matronly presence within video games. Which is not very high. All I stated was that writers are the only ones that can truly fix that.
@@DickyReeves controlling over that people feel uncomfortable over a troupe that has relevance as to even during the olden times shouldnt be removed just because it has involving 1 parent. Majority involves that one parent gets killed or captured etc to give feeling to the story and majority involve in the past that doesnt have revelance to modern times where majority has 2 parents. Thus what I mean because it works and sells doesnt have necessary to enforce to remove it because people are offended of such notions of ideas. People can create their own and see if it sells but if it doesnt dont go blaming others for continuing the troupe. As in if you want to make something different go on ahead but dont get mad when no one else is following or copying you. Plus there has been plenty of other media of a mother figure in the child's life depending on circumstances. its all about how much a parent has to go through trying to balance being 2 jobs at once. It all comes down to how few people complaining because they feel offended over it. Its somehow funny and ironic that somehow they cry for having 2 parents in the child life in fiction but dont try fixing the unfair justice system in real life of separated parents and how one holds hostage to not allow the child to see or be with the other parent and expect for the other parent to pay without monitoring if both parties agree or find good for the child's future on what is spent.
@@alexk7880 It seems like you're very passionate about what you're writing about, however it is in apropos to nothing that myself or any of my other comments were referring to. Whatever it is that you're going on about I'm glad you're there believing it. Take care!
There's also Anya in Wolfenstein II but she's mostly an expected mother. But still I liked the fact that they had a male character in that series that develops a relationship, though rushed as it was, that ended up with her helping Billy and not becoming fridged at any point. Its sad that's a rarity as well. But I really do hope we get more playable female characters who are mothers, they're just as important.
I find it hard to categorize expectant mothers... didn't really know where they fit in here. Though if there's another Wolfenstein (I hope there will be) then we should see Anya as a mother. And also BJ as a playable dad. I really like the development of their relationship through the series. The games do a good job in portraying characters and roles we don't usually get to see, even if one of the mothers in the game is almost comically evil.
I completely agree we need more playable moms, moms are awesome. I really enjoyed KQ7 when I was in High School and those other games you mentioned sold well and were well received so you cannot blame the consumers for this. I do think you sugar coated how Dads are portrayed, there are shitloads of truly horrendous and monstrous dads in all of fiction video games included. I am glad our portrayal has had some more positive recently and here is hoping for more awesome moms and dads in video games.
The Dead Mom thing is really quite huge in a lot of our media. Think of movies, literature, not just games. Its an epidemic. Think about Harry Potter, Star Wars, its all over. All the huge animes DBZ, Hunter x Hunter, One Piece, Bleach, Naruto. Disney movies.... Its such an overused trope. Any story with a Hero's Journey, those parents are going to be dead. Dad's are usually alive though sometimes to show up as a surprise antagonist. Or the mom dies to start the ball rolling. Edit: Just wanted to add a cool mom. Lucia, is Hugo's mom in Suikoden III. The Village Chief. You could have her in your party. Suikoden has over 90 playable characters true....but I liked her.
Kara's arc in Detroit: Become Human (same people who did Heavy Rain) has a good mother-daughter relationship if you play it right. Given they both die in many outcomes (and that is one of the few exceptions I can think of).
While Mortal Kombat X certainly revels in the Dead Mother and Monsterous Mother tropes (see Sindel), Sonya Blade is portrayed as a competent military leader who maintains decent relationships with her daughter (based on how much Cassie takes after her in terms of combat) and her ex-husband (and also doesn't jump to renew vows with Johnny by Story Mode's end)
Your analysis is spot on. As far as playable mothers go, the horror game The Park is the only good example that comes to my mind. That game explores motherhood in quite a bit of detail. As for other games there aren't many examples and some of these came out after the video: recent Mortal Kombat games feature 3 mothers in the main story alongside their children, two of which are controllable, but they all die by the end of the story. There is Gaia in Age of Mythology, she defeats her son Kronos, but she has no speaking lines, and we play as her only for a minute or two. Aya from Assassins Creed Origins is playable in some missions, but her child is long dead. Amelia Black from AOE III is a mother, has her own campaign and she narrates the game, but we never see her fight alongside her son, and she becomes a mother after her campaign, so this one may not even count. Cassandra from Assassins Creed Odyssey becomes a mother, but she abandons the child by the end of the story. Quite a bit of these involve the Mother killing their child, or leaving their life willingly or reluctantly.
Lightning and Hope's relationship in Final Fantasy XIII is pretty much the same as most dad games, but with the genders swapped (after, of course, Hope's mom dies). Though that might not make Lightning a mom necessarily, but a female dad.
Smoke and Sacrifice, released yesterday (31st of May). Looks like an RPG,survival thingy where you play as a mother that, wait for it, is looking for her lost child. A lot of missing children in games where you play as a mother...
This must've taken forever to capture the footage and edit together! As far as the absence of mothers in games, I'm not sure of the reason for the imbalance, but this was the first time I'd really seen it plainly illustrated. The more you offered examples of mothers relegated to the grave or antagonistic roles it got me thinking of others I'd seen over the years like Dahlia Gillespie from Silent Hill or The Boss in MGS. Definitely got me thinking and certainly the first video I'd seen on the topic :)
I did more finding of footage than capturing. That would have taken me a year. There are definitely a lot of other examples to find. I’ve read articles like this more than once but wanted to present it in a different way.
I am surprised Freya from God of war wasn't mentioned at the end....for some reason she is the main character that pops into my head when someone mentions mother in games.
Playable mother figures are more common (slightly) in RPGs than in other games. Fire Emblem, Baldurs’ Gate, Fable, etc., all allow you to be a playable mother character, if I remember correctly. In fact, being a mother is a really core part of the Fire Emblem Awakening’s plot. Although I don’t know if any of these RPGs “count” since the player character’s sex is selectable. Also, would Rosalina in Super Mario Galaxy count as a mom character? She has some aspects of an adoptive mother, taking care of the young Luma. But she’s also a grieving daughter who misses her own mom. And, well, she’s sort of a god too. So she kind of both fits and subverts the trope. But I’m kind of inclined to think that she acts as a surrogate mother in terms of the game’s narrative ... such as it is. I mean, it’s a Mario game so the plot isn’t exactly long and involved.
My two cents, with not disrespect ment: Starting from the fact that we have some lack of female character and that is the source of the probelm, when we indeed have a woman as main character they still whant to appeal to both the sexes and they do this... interpreting what boys and girls whant in a very biased way. -To appeal to boys... they think that the female character need to be sexy and avaiable. As boys playing videogames are Nerds sexually frustrate that are repulsed by girls that are with child. -To appeal to girls... they think that they need to make empowered, indipendent women. As all gamers girl are feminist and you should not mention procreation or make them go near kitchen. Those things are obviusly false, or at least not so statistically dominant as they think. Or at lest this is the impression that game trends seems to show.
Nice job. I think you’re right. In terms of storytelling, I think writers probably think there is more conflict between a male parental figure and their progeny compared to a female parental figure because those writers think men are (at least generally) not socialized to act paternally, and that role is uncomfortable and foreign to them. It’s another thing they have to overcome in addition to whatever main conflict they put into the game. I don’t see why you couldn’t maintain that same parental conflict with a female protagonist, though, and based on some of your examples (such as Bayonetta) writers have done this with success in the past.
I think a related issue is not wanting to portray mom's as flawed (unless they go right over the monster category) so even when they do appear they're not all that interesting.
Grandia 1. But most men who play video games are manchilds raised by single mothers or lack the father figure. Video games offer the heroes journey and father figures.
In Dishonored (2012) there is also the early on-screen murder of a mother, whom we barely have a chance to know or see. Telling stories about motherhood could be tricky, but I'm confident they will come, since storytelling in video games in any meaningful or profound ways is still in its infancy, and it needs time to develop. I'm closely watching the interactive fiction genre that is often disparagingly called walking simulators. If any meaning motherhood stories are to come, they will come from that genre, I'm pretty certain. This genre isn't preoccupied with combat, demons, or other video game tropes. It is strictly about stories. Early entries like Dear Esther I found lackluster. But the last few years saw Firewatch, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, What Remains of Edith Finch, which are really impressive. Sooner or later a killer story about motherhood will come. Even games that deal with fatherhood don't always do it in any meaningful or profound ways. Father-son or -daughter interactions are often full of cliches and/or superficial. If you switch them to moms they won't make a difference. Games are primarily an interactive medium, not a storytelling medium. So second or third-rate storytelling could often pass. And that may be why gamers are more forgiving about the lack of mothers (and other ignored characters) in games. Videogame-storytelling on the whole has never been high level historically. That's why many film adaptations of games have failed. In an interactive medium, gameplay comes first, story second. I sense that you want not only mothers, but GOOD stories and good storytelling about motherhood. Then your best hope is genres that are primarily about storytelling. RPGs are often about combat, and adventure games are about puzzle-solving. So I don't see any possible breakthroughs in this area except in the walking simulator genre.
PS: Anyway... you make some very good points. Made me think this video. Thanks. My favourite woman in videogame is Senua in "Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice" Not a mother but probably could be a very good mother figure in the future. She is passionate, complex, and even having a very bad experience with her father, was able to build a strong and deep relation with her deseased boyfrend. All the elements to put in place great partental redemption ark :D
Elly in Xenogaers is literally the reincarnation of the mother of the world and all human creation, is one of the main characters, is playable and is bad ass.
That one is annoying too. I hate when dads are portrayed as not being able to take care of their own kids, or like the expectation they can do that is out of the norm.
Mom not-appearing-in-this-game! lol. Childbirth is a such a lady killer. I must have glossed over parental games in general, because I haven't played any of these dad ones either. In EcoQuest 1 and 2, it's always the dad at the beginning of the game. No mom! That always bothered me. I guess the only moms I know of are in console RPGs like Chrono Trigger's mom or the generations in Phantasy Star 3. In Paladin's Quest on SNES, your mom helps in part of the main quest, but the dad never exists. This was a great topic, Pam! Makes me go back and think about all the parents in video games I've played. I agree, most I do come across are monstrous examples. That's a shame. Moms are awesome. Maybe you'll inspire someone with this video.
I don't play a whole lot of console RPGs pre-PS1 but it seems like moms in most of those early JRPGs just stay at home and send their child off on their journey then kind of get forgotten.
I never thought that the breastfeeding in Wolfenstein would make anyone react at all. She's a mom with a small child, they need food all the time. So when she did it I guess I thought the baby was hungry? You see breastfeeding all the time, I don't see the big deal about it.
I don't think it should be a big deal, but how many times have you seen a woman breastfeeding in a game? And in real life some people definitely do make a big deal out of it (at least in North America) - pictures of breastfeeding mothers get deleted and deemed 'explicit' on platforms like Facebook, people complain about women breastfeeding in public.
Cannot be Tamed that's very true, never seen it in a game before. I live in Sweden, and that could be the reason I didn't think about it that much. No one really cares when it's done here. I truly hope that the backwards people over there get over themselves soon, it's just a baby eating. And I really enjoyed your video BTW, the editing was top notch, and I can tell you put alot into it :)
its because of how toxic and abusive the real mother of the creator was towards him. But if people demonize him for how he made shows how bias and one sided people are in not seeing that no matter the gender the parent can be horrible to another or their child but they dont want to do that.
Wow! This is a hidden gem concept and its pretty much done seamlessly throughout video games. Never stop to think just how much its done. I guess that's why I am instantly captured with the thought of a lead female protagonist. (Jade is easily one of my favorites from Beyond Good and Evil) You don't see it enough. Society has allowed this concept to enter our minds subliminally that the man is strong/has strength and the woman is the home caretaker. Now if we look to horror movies the woman is usually the survivor. Why? IMO They are wise and calculate each move with precision. Examples are: Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday The 13th, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Alien and Silence of the Lamb. I think with video games it has been the "boys club" for so long its never been thought that it doesn't always have to be the male. Even though women make up a percentage of the gaming market.
I think there's also a cynical reason for women being more likely to be the star/survivor in horror movies - it's easier for people to see women (especially at the start and middle of the movies) as vulnerable, spending time running from the killer in terror.
A well done video. I think it is a symptom of the statistically unlikely concentration of types of people in the games industry in general. It would be interesting to see what the games would look like, if we had a AAA title studio that was women heavy.
just because a group of certain gender makes a game doesnt guarantee them successful as any other of both genders who make games. Its all about what interests the "Audience" and what captures to guarantee money. If people fail at simple factors of that and then blame the fans and audiences (Just like certain people did with movies/comics/games/etc) then they sure do show they are out of the loop of what interests people and only care for some small group of people that thinks like them
Revealing the quality "Special Interest" is spot on. I've just found your channel and can tell I've got some catching up to do (yknow, um, watching). Anyway, Moms. "Where are the mother protagonists," is a question we viewers are seeing a lot from our content creators right now, and the way you've researched and how thoroughly the point has been presented here is exactly the approach needed to explore the scene. Thank you for using your time this way and for continuing your career on this platform (the editing was especially entertaining and amplifying in this one). Undertale, though. Did i miss her mention in this? OK, so how does the story change? Do the developers now give Aloy a child? Does Lara shepherd around a little dungeon explorer? It's probably more organic to create a new, one-shot property, but so much more difficult to sell. I don't know. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, I might not even believe it myself, but maybe the motherly experience (as it is in Undertale) is much more special because of how alien it is. I really have no idea, I only know I'm struck when confronted with powerful, positive, multi-dimensional mother figures (like Freya from the aforementioned game) are given to the player for inspection. Anyway, this long.
Hey, thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I didn't cover an indie games in this video, as I didn't want it to be 4 hours long >< Also, when I played Undertale I killed goat mom and refused the game's prompts to reload. Then quit, not long after.
I should have known you'd already met Adam Koebel. I hope you get to play in a show with him soon; if that's something you want of course. Thanks so much for the reaponse and you've got another subscriber here +1.
Excellent video, I'm gonna check out a few of the games you talked about that I didn't play. More moms in video games would be great. The ability to become one during the game would be great too. But these past few years, as more indy games get published, some very interesting and touching moments have been added that lets you experience what being a parent is like. Personally I keep replaying This War of Mine for that, the interactions between adults and children. You talked about Jade, from Beyond Good and Evil. While it's true that the focus wasn't on the orphans she was taking care of, I always find myself coming back to the island to check up on them and talk to them. The small interactions are done well enough to make us care about them. Or it's just me. Anyway, glad you mentioned it :) One last thing : it might not have been relevant to that video, but I think the change made in the adaptation of Silent Hill from game to movie was interesting. In the game, you play as a father. In the movie, the father is replaced by a mother. I really like both characters. If you read this and you knew about that : what did you think of the change ?
Horror movies seem more comfortable putting women in vulnerable positions than men... I'd guess that's why they changed the protagonist in the Silent Hill movie. I never got very far into Silent Hill the game, so I didn't get to know the character all that well. I would have been interested in seeing Sean Bean as the lead in the movie though.
@@Cannotbetamed1 Ooooh yeah, I'm always down for more Sean Bean anyway ^^ The funny thing, for me, is that the gender swap didn't really change much. Harry (the father in the game) is pretty much just the male version of Rose, a normal person who tries his best to find and protect his child. He's not ridiculously manly (like Chris Redfield for instance), he's just your everyday dad. And it's good that they kept that for Rose, she's driven and brave, but she's not a super soldier. She gets scared, hurt, but she keeps going because she's a mom and her child needs her. Anyway, thanks for the reply :)
While I agree that games focus on the Father and Son aspect of relating, I personally feel that it is important. I never had a relationship with my father growing up, and always yearned for it. I tried to work on it for years, but sadly lost my father to cancer two years ago. It left me feeling hollow and otherwise empty in my life. While I don't think all developers share this sentiment, I think the desire for a strong relationship from son and father is something that is incredibly previlent.
There is a game, that actually is guilty of the trope of Patriarchs being put over Mothers is Octopath Traveler. An disappointing game, that has 8 main characters rarely interacting with one another and has a lot of issues, but I will focus on the daddy problem: The game has an even cast of 4 Male and 4 Female Characters, who have their own character stories, but that's where the gender equality ends. From all the 4 Female Characters, 3 of the 4 heroines are mostly driven by a desire to help their paternal figure or avenge them in one of them, in fact, one of the main characters, Primrose is her name, is sorely driven to avenge the murder of her father and not her mother, who either died prior to the death of her father and is rarely mentioned at all. Her story is also the worst, but that has multiple reasons I will not mention, but her story is a Symptom of a larger problem, that being not caring to make the females unique in their goals or characters as they are almost universally the same. One has H'aanit the hunter, who started her journey after her Father-figure is not doing well in his hunt for her story's main boss, on top of her battle theme being called "battle for master" which kinda sounds like a title for an porn in this context, the music doesn't even help it as well as the lack of mom in there. The other one has Ophelia the Cleric, who along with her sister have their story centered around their father and it's only through his love and wisdom that the story gets a good conclusion, which wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't for the over abundance of "Daughters and Fathers" stories in this game, which is even made worse by the fact, that even the Final boss is guilty of the ever present "Daughter aiding the Father" trope. He is the secret main boss in the game and revived by his daughter to destroy the world, which is the goal of almost every JRPG- villian, so Octopath is not even unique in that aspect,Live a Live is, despite having many misogynistic Characters more praiseworthy storytelling. I think we need more Mom's and should be able to enjoy more equal storyline.
That’s too bad about Octopath’s story. It seems so lazy that they’d give at the female characters the same story. Also I was very disappointed to learn when reading reviews of the game that the stories never intersected. Seems like a waste.
Good video Pam, made me think. While not playing as a 'Mom' One interesting game that deals with parenthood and death would be Lost Odyssey, one of the parts of the game focuses on the character Sarah, as an immortal she was going insane from grief when you find her as her children always die before her. A lot of stuff in that game was very emotional.(sorry, you did mention it lol, was writing the comment just before it finished!)
Warning: If you're fussy about character spoilers, I talk about the fates of mothers in about 40 different games in this video (the fate is usually that they're dead). If this will cause you to exclaim "Ah! Spoilers! You're the worst!" maybe skip this one. I don't think I've given away anything too shocking or unexpected though.
Also, there are a bunch of credits in the description if you want to check those out.
Cannot be Tamed ... The "No Spoilers" rule is for wussies. :P
Jorge you need help my friend.
Cannot be Tamed see this why feminism is good you can be victim in video game omg only dads haha they want more not only in video game (rip men)
The answer is simple: father roles have real life consequences. Dads can be punished or suffer greatly, encouraging fatherhood. We, sadly, live in a society where motherhood is never held under the same scruples. Sure, there are exceptions but in general
If spoilers are minor ones, it's okay for me because by the time I get to play the game, I usually will have forgotten anything I've heard about it.
The new game "A Plague Tale: Innocence" has a young heroine looking after her sick younger brother. It is not a mother-son relationship, but it fills some of the void mentioned in your video. I anticipate you playing and reviewing this.
And it's a great game too
I'm 2 years late, but I really liked this video. Such a fresh and pertinent take on the issue. I never really thought about the general portrayal of mothers in video games but you hit the nail on the head. And I liked the way you presented it. It was a refreshing and genuine. The kind of thing you'd go to TH-cam for.
Thank you very much
This a fantastic video, Pam. I am really impressed with all of the points and footage you were able to get for this. Mom characters definitely get the short end of the stick. One of my favorite games mentioned here (KQ7) features Valanice in a mother role and you also play her, but the fact that I can't name too many others off-hand is really telling. Even more obscure is a mother daughter team like her and Rosella. Valanice is a little emotional but she sure does go to the ends of the universe for her daughter.
Thank you! A lot more research and time went into this video than anything else I've made.
Another one I can think of as a mother figure would be Clementine in the finals season of TWD
The 'Dad' beeps is the most hilarious thing iv'e seen in a while :D
:D
I giggle every time I hear "Dad" in this video. It's so entertaining.
I'm glad you like it! I was considered cutting it out because I wasn't 100% happy with my voicing of it.
Cannot be Tamed it’s hilarious hahahaha
@@Cannotbetamed1 You should have cut it out.
@@Cannotbetamed1 The Big Daddy "Dad" cracked me up :) I loved this video. Really insightful observation about the lack of Moms, I totally didn't clock this trend.
honestly I didn't get it
My favorite gaming mom is Mother Brain!
Well, that's... nice.
Honestly, I always play fallout 4 as the mom but get sidetracked looking for jr. A God of War style game with a bad ass mom training Boy would be awesome!. Keep up the good work.
At least she doesn't talk.
Jenova best mom
Toriel is one of the most famous monster moms in recent gaming history.
Wonderful, pitch-perfect video essay, Pam. I wish everyone understood that commentaries like this are valuable because we love the medium and want to see it thrive to its fullest potential.
I cannot stand the notion of "games have grown up" because our grisly antihero hunks now have children in tow and clinical depression. So, this topic was beyond refreshing to see handled so well.
Thank you so much, glad you liked it.
As someone who has worked in the videogame industry for 18 years, this has given me a lot to think about. I'm not exactly in a position to decree that the next game is all about a mom but I'll see if I can enlighten others the way you have for me. Thanks!
You're welcome, I'm glad it gave you something to think about.
*Vodka Drinking Game:*
Take a shot every time the word *"DAD"* pops up.
I enjoyed the heck out of this. It's one of those ideas where I think "It can't be that bad" but through your examples and categorization, I'm left saying "Oh damn, it's pretty bad". Like how King's Quest 7 is a high point for mothers in video games. Very eye opening, and to top it off, there's that cartoon of you at the end standing next to a Golden Retriever. If I hadn't already subbed halfway through the video, that would have clinched it. Keep up the great work :D
Hey, thanks so much.
I was legitimately laughing every time i heard the "Dad" and "Dead" sound effects in this video!
I was hoping you would mention one of my favourite game series, Silent Hill. Many playable dads and missing moms in those games.
Very good points made throughout, the fact that mothers in games are so underrepresented is strange and something which should indeed change.
Silent Hill games are good choices too. Glad you liked the video!
5 years later and this is still timely.
In my opinion, the best videogame mother is "The Boss" from the Metal Gear Solid saga.
Without her, the development of the series wouldn't exist. She's the "boss" of all mothers in games...as of yet.
Intriguing topic for a video. I don't see it brought up often. This deserves more views!
Thanks! Feel free to share it :)
i searched "video games where you can be a mom" and this is the only video that came up
Wow, Pam. Smart, well written, well edited. Home run! This was really, really good!
Thanks so much :)
Happy father's day. Every time I head "dad" I just start laughing. Great stuff Pam.
Thanks :)
I know I already commented on Twitter, but engagement and all that jazz. I just wanted to say that I loved this video, funny with a really interesting topic to boot.
DariaPlaysRPGs
It's cool to see TH-camrs watching other TH-camrs videos
What can I say? Pam makes great videos. (:
Thank you!
Interesting indeed. I hope the gaming industry becomes more willing to make playable protagonists moms as opposed to just dads. There was a 2011 DS game called Monster Tale, which I heard was controversial among publishers because of the choice to make the lead a young girl. The director of the game reportedly said:
"This choice was actually somewhat controversial with some publishers. Our experience was that many publishers are looking to avert the risk of a main character that hasn’t been proven to capture large audiences. As a result, there was some concern from publishers that Ellie should change to a male or a more mature/sexy female."
Makes me wonder if many developers consciously decide make the protagonist a dad, along with a dead mom, out of believing that this is the type of scenario that will appeal to large audiences the most, as opposed to the more "risky" decision of making the protagonist a mom.
I know I'm super late to the party, but I just found your channel and have been watching a ton of your videos. Great video and great points. I know she kinda falls under the "fighting game" section, but I think Ana from overwatch is a great mom character. Shes an senior member of the team, and older woman, a healer and mom to the team who looks over everyone, and a literal mom to Pharah. Shes my favorite overwatch character lore-wise.
Welcome to the channel! I don't really consider Overwatch characters as all of the backstory behind them is presented external to the game, aside from a few voice lines that indicate Ana is Pharah's mother.
The Soundtrack of the Binding of Isaac with the monster moms part....you are amazing Pam.
Girls have always been heroes in video games. It's not a new thing.
Unless a story is about a mother who had her baby stolen, you won't find a mom as a lead protagonist in a game. If a mother was a badass before, but now has a grown kid, naturally the child will be the hero, being younger than his 30+ year old mother... but, it would be a kinda cool if a game were designed where the player thinks he is the son of a badass maternal figure, but dies moments into the story and mom comes out of retirement in a nihilistic mind set consumed with getting revenge, and expecting to die trying to avenge her child's death.
Good thinking Pam..
That sounds like a cool story.
The closest I can think of is Terra from the second half of Final Fantasy 6.
This was really interesting to watch. Some very good points made and all backed up with evidence. Excellent work!
Thanks!
This is such an interesting gamic topic! Actually, it's an interesting social topic. It's very telling that it's taken this long to get someone to point out the obvious. Great video.
Thanks!
This video was extremely important and It was funny how I knew some of the examples you talked about just as soon as you mentioned the tropes they belonged to (like pokemon and earthbound mothers). Was expecting a mention of The Binding of Isaac, though.
Thanks! I tried to stay away from indie games to limit the scope (and length) of the video, though I did use some music from Binding of Isaac as a little hat tip in the monsters section.
There is the french game Eqqo, which is adapted from african tales. The narrator all along the game is the mom supporting his blind child in his adventures.
Yep. Moms are dead and birth is gross. That's what a whole room of dudes only gets you when you make a game. I mean, I love Bloodborne. Ithink it's the best game in history, but it has a whole thing with menstruation, birth, monsters and cosmic horrors. I really hope things change.
video game moms are like disney moms.
its great that you pointed out this represantation issue that not many even are aware of (including me).
well done, thank you.
This video is great: incredible when you lay it all out, not to mention thought-provoking. I tried to think of my own list but have only come up with Rakuen so far... that said I haven't finished the game and have NO idea if the protag's mother lives to see the end! Oh dear.
Anyways, I think I'll be mulling over this one for a while so thank you for the brain fuel!
Thank you, your videos are fantastic so your compliments mean a lot :)
This is my favorite video of all the Cannot Be Tamed fare. I showed it to a couple friends the other day and they liked it too, but one of them sort of objected to using horror games to draw from (like it's a flawed pool to draw examples of mothers from). I disagree though. Even the most graphic thing in this video is right in line with stuff from The Second Sex where de Beauvoir lists many nasty examples of things men have written about women's bodies.
Aside from that it wasn't until I watched this that I understood how incredibly rare it is to have a powerful compassionate mom one can play as in a game. I guess it makes sense. I once took a motherhood class in college which educated me on how attacked mothers are in U.S. culture. I can think of many films I love that have mom protagonists, but games...
Thanks for the heart opening video!
Detroit: Becomes Human deserves more credit for being one of the only games to focus on a mother/daughter relationship. The whole “big strong dads with fragile little girls” is getting a little cliche and obnoxious. There’s a lack of the mother/daughter dynamic.
Ms. Pacman - she's rockin my flat with lots of qui-qui-qui by eating mmmmm... sweets on the cocktail table. But yeah, we need way more girls in games.
Even with more female focused stories and more female writers, it sadly seems to me that mothers and motherhood just aren’t valued and respected by society in general these days, let alone in video games. It’s not a complete lack of representation though, for ex. I just finished RE2 remake yesterday and Claire’s storyline with Sherry was all about that motherly instinct. I thought it was handled well too, as Claire is an undeniable ass-kicker and tough as nails, but the game still values her for having those soft traits that we typically associate with females - that nurturing, protecting maternal instinct that makes women so unique and important in human development. It kinda bothers me how modern society and a large part of the feminist movement seems to shun women for still embracing those traditional parts of womanhood, and instead teaching them that only traditional male associated traits like physical strength, independence etc. are valuable. I think women can still be tough, career oriented etc. and still be great mothers, and we should show more respect for motherhood than we do now. Birth rates, marriages, and instances of couples having & raising children are plummeting across Western society because we just don’t respect the importance of these things anymore.
kreia from knights of the old republic is sort of a badass mother / teacher figure.
Yeah, she's definitely a teacher, I don't see her as a mother figure at all though.
@@Cannotbetamed1 yeah, i guess you need a child for that.
Although I agree with some of your points, I have to say: the reason why fathers are so common in games is because often times in real life, fathers are... just terrible. The idea of a present and loving mother is the standard and yet for fathers being caring and loving is the exception not the rule.
Now, do I want to see more mothers? Yes. And as your video showed, it is time for a bit of a shakeup in the industry.
'Why aren't there more mothers"? The answer is simple. Because 1) Video game mechanics still focus very heavily on feats of physicality and aggression -- two areas for which men are much more biologically suited and 2) males are still the overwhelming majority of the non-casual video game audience.
Great video! I'd also like to add two extra-monstrous, vampire moms: in Vampire: the Masquerade: Redemption, your character gets turned into a vampire by the grotesquely deformed Ecaterina the Wise, very much against your wishes. She then spends a lot of time using you as a blunt force weapon against her enemies. Then there's Harriett Jones, the (also-horribly-deformed) vampire in Vampyr. She's the mother of another (horribly deformed) vampire lady, as well as the penultimate boss of the game. When defeated, it pops The Morrigan, a blood goddess who's described as the Mother of all Vampires, so that's an extra monster Mom, thrown in for fun. Oh! One more bonus: if you play a guy in Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines, your Sire is a woman (though only hideously deformed if you're a Nosferatu), who gets, you guessed it, killed first thing in the game.
Ah the Vampyr ones are good additions. I think I made this video before I played that.
If you want to change, study hard and become a game developer, while only men are willing to do so, at least in the companies I worked for, it is very difficult to find a female developer, I would love to have more variety in this industry.
I have a job already.
There is the game Amy on Xbox 360. A survival horror where a woman try to protect her autistic daughter.
Thanks for the video! In addition to the games you listed, I really liked the mom in Night in the Woods too.
I loved her. I so badly want a DLC or something that explores her backstory.
HOLY SHIT PAM you KNOCKED THIS VIDEO OUT OF THE PARK. Funny enough I happen to be doing research on video game moms for "reasons" and came across your video. And when you mentioned motherly monsters I thought Parasite Eve...or mothers who are alive but die (Breath of Fire II). Like it's insane... You just did so good with these piece. Well researched, thought out and articulated. BRAVO SISTA!!!
Thank you so much! I was an interesting one to research and write
I listened to this one because you mentioned it on the CGG podcast! Thanks for the great video. It occurs to me that the very odd PrincessMaker series is all about raising a daughter but it isn't until later iterations when you can actually play as a mother (not that it makes a difference with that type of game, probably!).
In Amnesia Rebirth, your player character is a pregnant woman. I'm not much into horror games, but I enjoyed and completed that one.
Krato's mom in God of War 2 was a sea monster... I guess most game developers have mommy issues.
Depends but to assume that one person represents controlling the whole company is quite an accusation to assume while others that complain and portray to enforce that everything is offensive is just some person complaining over 1st world problems like a child and wants to dicate
Yeah, video games are filled with Sad Dads. Mothers rarely get to be complex people with their own stories. Mothers are expected to be perfect, while dads are allowed to be flawed. Her only role is to be a mother, while fathers are allowed to have lives outside of their children. The whole “big strong man has to protect the innocent little girl” trope is getting a little overused.
I can't play The Witcher 3. Every time someone talks to Siri, every Apple device in my house lights up.
lol
may your voice travel far and wide!!! thanks for your work as always!!! (loved the DAD voicing lmao!)
Thank you :)
3 games: Okay, it never came to me that we play as a few father figures.
7 games: Well damn, this many?
20 games: GAWD DAYAMN!!! Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK?!!! All father figures!
Can't help but laugh at the fact that the female reproductive system is used for horror shock in most stories. Like men are going "oh that's so icky! You have a little person coming out of you like a chest burster!"
Most of Alien can be interpreted as "Birth, gross!" :P
its the idea of the Unkown inside you and the gross feeling of some parasite just like how we have things inside us that can be harmful if we dont take care of ourselves thus even real creatures have been proven to have grown inside humans that are parasites.
System Shock 2 has mothers...
Great video. Kinda didn't notice how few mother characters there are in video games, never mind decent ones. I'd love to see a game in the vain of God of War or Nier or something, but from a mother's perspective. Those games are great (and while the dad trope is used a lot now, I think GoW is extra interesting because most of the time it's a father/daughter relationship we see in games and not a father/son one) but yeah, more moms, please!
Does The Boss from MGS count as a mother, though? She was pretty cool... though she's dead too.
Thank you! I agree a GoW or Nier-type game with a mom would be cool.
Horizon Zero Dawn had a good mother and daughter dynamic I think. Still I think it's mostly because the people writing are men, for example God Of War, the director has said openly its because he became a dad.
Aloy doesn’t really have a mother.
SPOILER for Life Is Strange 1 and 2:
If you choose the "sacrifice Arcadia" ending, Chloe Price's mom is revealed to be dead in the second-last episode of Life Is Strange 2.
Really good video, Pam. This is something that I have never thought about, and you are correct. I guess the only reason that this has never been an issue I realized before is simply because, even when there are stories focused on Dads it doesn't really matter much to me either. But this was a very good look at the history of parents in gaming.
Thanks!
Bayonetta 1" was fantastic, like play an Anime at the same time, love the story and character. Never played the other ones cuz of the different consoles, good video pAm
I was just thinking about this recently !
Marge Simpson was the only playable mother I could think of
I really digged the video! I was bummed not to see Sherry and Claire from Resident Evil 2 on the list. I loved the mom figure dynamic in that game.
I don't disagree that the matronly presence rarely being explored in video games, however I can understand the reason that the trope for the patriarchal exists. Typically the idea of a man nurturing a child by themselves is a foreign concept, especially to the character but also the predominantly male audience of the player character role. Often times boys and girls alike idolize their fathers who were "the great hero" or "champion" in games because typically that mindset of masculine hero has never really gone away.
The most positive/negative examples of father and child that I can think of within recent date being God of War 4. Kratos, a man who has known nothing but violence for multiple lifetimes is thrust into the role of being a single parent, the sole person responsible for his son's protection and guiding him to adulthood. The very same game explores the relationship between mother and son with the relationship between Freya and Baldur. The difference between the two being that Freya did everything to protect her son, so much so that it triggered unbridled resentment and Kratos is teaching his son to protect himself, passing on his knowledge, while there is friction at times, it is not murderous.
Most writers use their stories as an outlet for their relationships implementing a interpersonal dynamic between two characters into their work. I can't say why the writers of most gaming stories and other content depict mothers negatively if at all. Mayhaps it has to do with their personal relationship with their mother or perhaps it's story telling. I leave that stuff up to Freud and the psychological community.
Good video CbT!
But that still involves you trying to sideline when there is such a thing that there can be bad mothers and a statistic proven of majority out of bias and making out to always try blaming one side when the other is no different. If one has bad cases then the other just as much which is why funny enough more women are defending males and bringing up toxic femininity and toxic feminism and other forms of extreme ideology and others involving unfair bias that gives mothers and women the slap on the wrist
@@alexk7880 Where in my comment was anyone sidelined? If anything I wrote this is a testament to the fact that a writer is attempting to establish a thought provoking narrative. CBT is very correct, mothers are not present in games frequently and the most recent example I could think of at the time was GoW. I even stated that Freya attempted to do what she thought was right by her son and so was Kratos. Their methodology was different. I cannot state whether their intent was right or wrong. I am not this fictional character, the writer, or in the same heightened circumstances. If you want to talk about something being sidelined, you may be sidelining the topic of having a matronly presence within video games. Which is not very high. All I stated was that writers are the only ones that can truly fix that.
@@DickyReeves controlling over that people feel uncomfortable over a troupe that has relevance as to even during the olden times shouldnt be removed just because it has involving 1 parent. Majority involves that one parent gets killed or captured etc to give feeling to the story and majority involve in the past that doesnt have revelance to modern times where majority has 2 parents. Thus what I mean because it works and sells doesnt have necessary to enforce to remove it because people are offended of such notions of ideas. People can create their own and see if it sells but if it doesnt dont go blaming others for continuing the troupe. As in if you want to make something different go on ahead but dont get mad when no one else is following or copying you. Plus there has been plenty of other media of a mother figure in the child's life depending on circumstances. its all about how much a parent has to go through trying to balance being 2 jobs at once. It all comes down to how few people complaining because they feel offended over it. Its somehow funny and ironic that somehow they cry for having 2 parents in the child life in fiction but dont try fixing the unfair justice system in real life of separated parents and how one holds hostage to not allow the child to see or be with the other parent and expect for the other parent to pay without monitoring if both parties agree or find good for the child's future on what is spent.
@@alexk7880 It seems like you're very passionate about what you're writing about, however it is in apropos to nothing that myself or any of my other comments were referring to. Whatever it is that you're going on about I'm glad you're there believing it. Take care!
There's also Anya in Wolfenstein II but she's mostly an expected mother. But still I liked the fact that they had a male character in that series that develops a relationship, though rushed as it was, that ended up with her helping Billy and not becoming fridged at any point. Its sad that's a rarity as well. But I really do hope we get more playable female characters who are mothers, they're just as important.
I find it hard to categorize expectant mothers... didn't really know where they fit in here. Though if there's another Wolfenstein (I hope there will be) then we should see Anya as a mother. And also BJ as a playable dad. I really like the development of their relationship through the series. The games do a good job in portraying characters and roles we don't usually get to see, even if one of the mothers in the game is almost comically evil.
I completely agree we need more playable moms, moms are awesome. I really enjoyed KQ7 when I was in High School and those other games you mentioned sold well and were well received so you cannot blame the consumers for this. I do think you sugar coated how Dads are portrayed, there are shitloads of truly horrendous and monstrous dads in all of fiction video games included. I am glad our portrayal has had some more positive recently and here is hoping for more awesome moms and dads in video games.
The Dead Mom thing is really quite huge in a lot of our media. Think of movies, literature, not just games. Its an epidemic. Think about Harry Potter, Star Wars, its all over. All the huge animes DBZ, Hunter x Hunter, One Piece, Bleach, Naruto. Disney movies....
Its such an overused trope. Any story with a Hero's Journey, those parents are going to be dead. Dad's are usually alive though sometimes to show up as a surprise antagonist. Or the mom dies to start the ball rolling.
Edit: Just wanted to add a cool mom. Lucia, is Hugo's mom in Suikoden III. The Village Chief. You could have her in your party. Suikoden has over 90 playable characters true....but I liked her.
It’s true, it’s a trope that’s used everywhere unfortunately.
I'm so glad I found your channel!
You are right. I never noticed all this so thanks for bringing it up. Watching this I kept thinking if the Shelter games count.
I'm not familiar with the Shelter games.
You should try them. Really cheap right now on GOG.
Kara's arc in Detroit: Become Human (same people who did Heavy Rain) has a good mother-daughter relationship if you play it right. Given they both die in many outcomes (and that is one of the few exceptions I can think of).
I found it weird that their story could completely end 1/3 of the way through, while the other two leads always made it to the finale.
While Mortal Kombat X certainly revels in the Dead Mother and Monsterous Mother tropes (see Sindel), Sonya Blade is portrayed as a competent military leader who maintains decent relationships with her daughter (based on how much Cassie takes after her in terms of combat) and her ex-husband (and also doesn't jump to renew vows with Johnny by Story Mode's end)
Your analysis is spot on. As far as playable mothers go, the horror game The Park is the only good example that comes to my mind. That game explores motherhood in quite a bit of detail. As for other games there aren't many examples and some of these came out after the video: recent Mortal Kombat games feature 3 mothers in the main story alongside their children, two of which are controllable, but they all die by the end of the story. There is Gaia in Age of Mythology, she defeats her son Kronos, but she has no speaking lines, and we play as her only for a minute or two. Aya from Assassins Creed Origins is playable in some missions, but her child is long dead. Amelia Black from AOE III is a mother, has her own campaign and she narrates the game, but we never see her fight alongside her son, and she becomes a mother after her campaign, so this one may not even count. Cassandra from Assassins Creed Odyssey becomes a mother, but she abandons the child by the end of the story. Quite a bit of these involve the Mother killing their child, or leaving their life willingly or reluctantly.
Lightning and Hope's relationship in Final Fantasy XIII is pretty much the same as most dad games, but with the genders swapped (after, of course, Hope's mom dies). Though that might not make Lightning a mom necessarily, but a female dad.
Smoke and Sacrifice, released yesterday (31st of May). Looks like an RPG,survival thingy where you play as a mother that, wait for it, is looking for her lost child. A lot of missing children in games where you play as a mother...
It does look very cool, I've got it on my to-buy list.
This must've taken forever to capture the footage and edit together! As far as the absence of mothers in games, I'm not sure of the reason for the imbalance, but this was the first time I'd really seen it plainly illustrated. The more you offered examples of mothers relegated to the grave or antagonistic roles it got me thinking of others I'd seen over the years like Dahlia Gillespie from Silent Hill or The Boss in MGS. Definitely got me thinking and certainly the first video I'd seen on the topic :)
I did more finding of footage than capturing. That would have taken me a year. There are definitely a lot of other examples to find. I’ve read articles like this more than once but wanted to present it in a different way.
I am surprised Freya from God of war wasn't mentioned at the end....for some reason she is the main character that pops into my head when someone mentions mother in games.
Playable mother figures are more common (slightly) in RPGs than in other games. Fire Emblem, Baldurs’ Gate, Fable, etc., all allow you to be a playable mother character, if I remember correctly. In fact, being a mother is a really core part of the Fire Emblem Awakening’s plot.
Although I don’t know if any of these RPGs “count” since the player character’s sex is selectable.
Also, would Rosalina in Super Mario Galaxy count as a mom character? She has some aspects of an adoptive mother, taking care of the young Luma. But she’s also a grieving daughter who misses her own mom. And, well, she’s sort of a god too. So she kind of both fits and subverts the trope. But I’m kind of inclined to think that she acts as a surrogate mother in terms of the game’s narrative ... such as it is. I mean, it’s a Mario game so the plot isn’t exactly long and involved.
Amazing video.
Thanks!
My two cents, with not disrespect ment:
Starting from the fact that we have some lack of female character and that is the source of the probelm, when we indeed have a woman as main character they still whant to appeal to both the sexes and they do this... interpreting what boys and girls whant in a very biased way.
-To appeal to boys... they think that the female character need to be sexy and avaiable. As boys playing videogames are Nerds sexually frustrate that are repulsed by girls that are with child.
-To appeal to girls... they think that they need to make empowered, indipendent women. As all gamers girl are feminist and you should not mention procreation or make them go near kitchen.
Those things are obviusly false, or at least not so statistically dominant as they think.
Or at lest this is the impression that game trends seems to show.
Nice job. I think you’re right. In terms of storytelling, I think writers probably think there is more conflict between a male parental figure and their progeny compared to a female parental figure because those writers think men are (at least generally) not socialized to act paternally, and that role is uncomfortable and foreign to them. It’s another thing they have to overcome in addition to whatever main conflict they put into the game. I don’t see why you couldn’t maintain that same parental conflict with a female protagonist, though, and based on some of your examples (such as Bayonetta) writers have done this with success in the past.
I think a related issue is not wanting to portray mom's as flawed (unless they go right over the monster category) so even when they do appear they're not all that interesting.
Would a male version of a chic flick be called a bro show?
I like that. Rhyming always makes things better.
Far Cry 4 is about solving mystery of (dead!) mother
Funny because all of the RPGs I grew up playing usually had the main protagonist with no father. Usually a single mother.
Interesting. Did the mothers do much more than make their kids breakfast before they went off on their journey?
If no one has mentioned it yet: Hades
Grandia 1. But most men who play video games are manchilds raised by single mothers or lack the father figure. Video games offer the heroes journey and father figures.
dont forget abusive mothers
Love this topic. Great video.
Thank you!
Not so many mothers....plenty of "bad muthas"
In Dishonored (2012) there is also the early on-screen murder of a mother, whom we barely have a chance to know or see.
Telling stories about motherhood could be tricky, but I'm confident they will come, since storytelling in video games in any meaningful or profound ways is still in its infancy, and it needs time to develop.
I'm closely watching the interactive fiction genre that is often disparagingly called walking simulators. If any meaning motherhood stories are to come, they will come from that genre, I'm pretty certain. This genre isn't preoccupied with combat, demons, or other video game tropes. It is strictly about stories. Early entries like Dear Esther I found lackluster. But the last few years saw Firewatch, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, What Remains of Edith Finch, which are really impressive. Sooner or later a killer story about motherhood will come.
Even games that deal with fatherhood don't always do it in any meaningful or profound ways. Father-son or -daughter interactions are often full of cliches and/or superficial. If you switch them to moms they won't make a difference. Games are primarily an interactive medium, not a storytelling medium. So second or third-rate storytelling could often pass. And that may be why gamers are more forgiving about the lack of mothers (and other ignored characters) in games.
Videogame-storytelling on the whole has never been high level historically. That's why many film adaptations of games have failed. In an interactive medium, gameplay comes first, story second.
I sense that you want not only mothers, but GOOD stories and good storytelling about motherhood. Then your best hope is genres that are primarily about storytelling. RPGs are often about combat, and adventure games are about puzzle-solving. So I don't see any possible breakthroughs in this area except in the walking simulator genre.
PS: Anyway... you make some very good points. Made me think this video. Thanks.
My favourite woman in videogame is Senua in "Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice"
Not a mother but probably could be a very good mother figure in the future.
She is passionate, complex, and even having a very bad experience with her father, was able to build a strong and deep relation with her deseased boyfrend. All the elements to put in place great partental redemption ark :D
Elly in Xenogaers is literally the reincarnation of the mother of the world and all human creation, is one of the main characters, is playable and is bad ass.
Very interesting. Hopefully, it's a trend that ends.... like the bumbling fool dad characters so pervasive in sitcoms.
That one is annoying too. I hate when dads are portrayed as not being able to take care of their own kids, or like the expectation they can do that is out of the norm.
@@Cannotbetamed1
Yes!
🤗
Mom not-appearing-in-this-game! lol. Childbirth is a such a lady killer. I must have glossed over parental games in general, because I haven't played any of these dad ones either. In EcoQuest 1 and 2, it's always the dad at the beginning of the game. No mom! That always bothered me. I guess the only moms I know of are in console RPGs like Chrono Trigger's mom or the generations in Phantasy Star 3. In Paladin's Quest on SNES, your mom helps in part of the main quest, but the dad never exists. This was a great topic, Pam! Makes me go back and think about all the parents in video games I've played. I agree, most I do come across are monstrous examples. That's a shame. Moms are awesome. Maybe you'll inspire someone with this video.
I don't play a whole lot of console RPGs pre-PS1 but it seems like moms in most of those early JRPGs just stay at home and send their child off on their journey then kind of get forgotten.
I never thought that the breastfeeding in Wolfenstein would make anyone react at all. She's a mom with a small child, they need food all the time. So when she did it I guess I thought the baby was hungry?
You see breastfeeding all the time, I don't see the big deal about it.
I don't think it should be a big deal, but how many times have you seen a woman breastfeeding in a game? And in real life some people definitely do make a big deal out of it (at least in North America) - pictures of breastfeeding mothers get deleted and deemed 'explicit' on platforms like Facebook, people complain about women breastfeeding in public.
Cannot be Tamed that's very true, never seen it in a game before. I live in Sweden, and that could be the reason I didn't think about it that much. No one really cares when it's done here.
I truly hope that the backwards people over there get over themselves soon, it's just a baby eating.
And I really enjoyed your video BTW, the editing was top notch, and I can tell you put alot into it :)
Pornographic imagery. The same as a man showing there cock.(edit: I don't care about "pornographic imagery" anymore, I don't know what I was thinking)
Good video!! They should talk about more Moms in stories.
Thanks!
your welcome!! glad you have a great mothers day!! So did I.
Very surprised Binding of Isaac didnt get brought up in the monstrous mothers section. You do literally fight your way through her womb......
its because of how toxic and abusive the real mother of the creator was towards him. But if people demonize him for how he made shows how bias and one sided people are in not seeing that no matter the gender the parent can be horrible to another or their child but they dont want to do that.
Wow! This is a hidden gem concept and its pretty much done seamlessly throughout video games. Never stop to think just how much its done. I guess that's why I am instantly captured with the thought of a lead female protagonist. (Jade is easily one of my favorites from Beyond Good and Evil) You don't see it enough. Society has allowed this concept to enter our minds subliminally that the man is strong/has strength and the woman is the home caretaker.
Now if we look to horror movies the woman is usually the survivor. Why? IMO They are wise and calculate each move with precision. Examples are: Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday The 13th, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Alien and Silence of the Lamb. I think with video games it has been the "boys club" for so long its never been thought that it doesn't always have to be the male. Even though women make up a percentage of the gaming market.
I think there's also a cynical reason for women being more likely to be the star/survivor in horror movies - it's easier for people to see women (especially at the start and middle of the movies) as vulnerable, spending time running from the killer in terror.
@@Cannotbetamed1 definitely some truth to that statement. Makes me think of Tomb Raider (2013).
@@GameFreak4Ever there have been children who were survivors and even some men in horror movies. Plus there is hypergamy and ginocentricism
A well done video. I think it is a symptom of the statistically unlikely concentration of types of people in the games industry in general. It would be interesting to see what the games would look like, if we had a AAA title studio that was women heavy.
Thanks!
just because a group of certain gender makes a game doesnt guarantee them successful as any other of both genders who make games. Its all about what interests the "Audience" and what captures to guarantee money. If people fail at simple factors of that and then blame the fans and audiences (Just like certain people did with movies/comics/games/etc) then they sure do show they are out of the loop of what interests people and only care for some small group of people that thinks like them
Based on games, I'd assume 80% of women die in childbirth.
Revealing the quality "Special Interest" is spot on. I've just found your channel and can tell I've got some catching up to do (yknow, um, watching). Anyway, Moms. "Where are the mother protagonists," is a question we viewers are seeing a lot from our content creators right now, and the way you've researched and how thoroughly the point has been presented here is exactly the approach needed to explore the scene. Thank you for using your time this way and for continuing your career on this platform (the editing was especially entertaining and amplifying in this one).
Undertale, though. Did i miss her mention in this?
OK, so how does the story change? Do the developers now give Aloy a child? Does Lara shepherd around a little dungeon explorer? It's probably more organic to create a new, one-shot property, but so much more difficult to sell. I don't know. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, I might not even believe it myself, but maybe the motherly experience (as it is in Undertale) is much more special because of how alien it is. I really have no idea, I only know I'm struck when confronted with powerful, positive, multi-dimensional mother figures (like Freya from the aforementioned game) are given to the player for inspection. Anyway, this long.
Hey, thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I didn't cover an indie games in this video, as I didn't want it to be 4 hours long >< Also, when I played Undertale I killed goat mom and refused the game's prompts to reload. Then quit, not long after.
I should have known you'd already met Adam Koebel. I hope you get to play in a show with him soon; if that's something you want of course. Thanks so much for the reaponse and you've got another subscriber here +1.
Very good video.
Thank you
I look forward to more game reviews
Excellent video, I'm gonna check out a few of the games you talked about that I didn't play.
More moms in video games would be great. The ability to become one during the game would be great too. But these past few years, as more indy games get published, some very interesting and touching moments have been added that lets you experience what being a parent is like. Personally I keep replaying This War of Mine for that, the interactions between adults and children.
You talked about Jade, from Beyond Good and Evil. While it's true that the focus wasn't on the orphans she was taking care of, I always find myself coming back to the island to check up on them and talk to them. The small interactions are done well enough to make us care about them. Or it's just me. Anyway, glad you mentioned it :)
One last thing : it might not have been relevant to that video, but I think the change made in the adaptation of Silent Hill from game to movie was interesting. In the game, you play as a father. In the movie, the father is replaced by a mother. I really like both characters. If you read this and you knew about that : what did you think of the change ?
Horror movies seem more comfortable putting women in vulnerable positions than men... I'd guess that's why they changed the protagonist in the Silent Hill movie. I never got very far into Silent Hill the game, so I didn't get to know the character all that well. I would have been interested in seeing Sean Bean as the lead in the movie though.
@@Cannotbetamed1 Ooooh yeah, I'm always down for more Sean Bean anyway ^^
The funny thing, for me, is that the gender swap didn't really change much. Harry (the father in the game) is pretty much just the male version of Rose, a normal person who tries his best to find and protect his child. He's not ridiculously manly (like Chris Redfield for instance), he's just your everyday dad. And it's good that they kept that for Rose, she's driven and brave, but she's not a super soldier. She gets scared, hurt, but she keeps going because she's a mom and her child needs her.
Anyway, thanks for the reply :)
While I agree that games focus on the Father and Son aspect of relating, I personally feel that it is important. I never had a relationship with my father growing up, and always yearned for it. I tried to work on it for years, but sadly lost my father to cancer two years ago. It left me feeling hollow and otherwise empty in my life. While I don't think all developers share this sentiment, I think the desire for a strong relationship from son and father is something that is incredibly previlent.
Sorry to hear about your father.
There is a game, that actually is guilty of the trope of Patriarchs being put over Mothers is Octopath Traveler. An disappointing game, that has 8 main characters rarely interacting with one another and has a lot of issues, but I will focus on the daddy problem:
The game has an even cast of 4 Male and 4 Female Characters, who have their own character stories, but that's where the gender equality ends. From all the 4 Female Characters, 3 of the 4 heroines are mostly driven by a desire to help their paternal figure or avenge them in one of them, in fact, one of the main characters, Primrose is her name, is sorely driven to avenge the murder of her father and not her mother, who either died prior to the death of her father and is rarely mentioned at all. Her story is also the worst, but that has multiple reasons I will not mention, but her story is a Symptom of a larger problem, that being not caring to make the females unique in their goals or characters as they are almost universally the same. One has H'aanit the hunter, who started her journey after her Father-figure is not doing well in his hunt for her story's main boss, on top of her battle theme being called "battle for master" which kinda sounds like a title for an porn in this context, the music doesn't even help it as well as the lack of mom in there. The other one has Ophelia the Cleric, who along with her sister have their story centered around their father and it's only through his love and wisdom that the story gets a good conclusion, which wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't for the over abundance of "Daughters and Fathers" stories in this game, which is even made worse by the fact, that even the Final boss is guilty of the ever present "Daughter aiding the Father" trope. He is the secret main boss in the game and revived by his daughter to destroy the world, which is the goal of almost every JRPG- villian, so Octopath is not even unique in that aspect,Live a Live is, despite having many misogynistic Characters more praiseworthy storytelling.
I think we need more Mom's and should be able to enjoy more equal storyline.
That’s too bad about Octopath’s story. It seems so lazy that they’d give at the female characters the same story. Also I was very disappointed to learn when reading reviews of the game that the stories never intersected. Seems like a waste.
Honestly I hate this whole parental trend in video games.
Good video Pam, made me think. While not playing as a 'Mom' One interesting game that deals with parenthood and death would be Lost Odyssey, one of the parts of the game focuses on the character Sarah, as an immortal she was going insane from grief when you find her as her children always die before her. A lot of stuff in that game was very emotional.(sorry, you did mention it lol, was writing the comment just before it finished!)
Haha, I do that too sometimes. Lost Odyssey is such a cool look at family dynamics and I like Sarah’s story especially.