My biggest mistake that I only corrected recently was giving everyone extra encounters on hazard icons. The extra encounters are dealt out in player order and not to everyone. With one hazard icon I was giving every player an extra encounter when only the first player should be getting the extra.
I would add 'Draw, Deal an Encounter Card' (Reference v1.5, pg. 12) to this list. In almost every other LCG I've played 'draw an encounter card' means take a card, flip it and do what's written on it. In Marvel Champions however draw an encounter card is NOT an instruction to reveal/resolve the card being drawn. Unless directed otherwise when you draw or get dealt an encounter card it gets placed facedown in your encounter queue until step four of the villain phase, where it's revealed/resolved with any other encounter cards in the encounter queue. At a glance it doesn't seem like it should cause you to lose a game the way misinterpreting Retaliate does. You have to deal with the cards eventually so in theory it should help as much as it hurts, but the consequences of resolving encounter cards at the wrong time can be devastating. First and foremost correct timing ensures you always have one full round to deal with the fallout from encounter cards. Encounter cards are designed with that in mind. Especially cards like side schemes with the Crisis icon where the goal is to shift the heroes priorities for the round. If the Justice player is going last and doesn't know Crisis will be in play when their turn comes around they may tell the first player it's safe to switch to Alter-Ego and recover. It feels a bit easy having the entire round to deal with a Crisis side scheme but the point is to pressure you into reacting not to end your game. Venom has one of the clearest examples of the difference timing can make. If Venom empties their deck refreshing their hand at the end of the player phase and draws/immediately resolves Shadows of the Past they'll definitely take 4x 2 damage attacks from the Enraged Symbiote minions during step two of the villain phase. It also means that during step three of the villain phase the Kylntar Frenzy's Hazard icon will definitely be in play so the team will draw an extra encounter card. Resolving it correctly means Shadows of the Past is facedown in front of Venom during villain phase steps 1-3 so the Enraged Symbiotes and Kylntar Frenzy are still out of play during steps two and three. It's not all positive, it means you can't spread multiple encounter resolutions out to soften the blows, but understanding the encounter queue really helps you understand how to properly plan out a round.
@@David-And-A-Half that is an interesting example that I didn’t think of! And I agree. Heroes with responses can be hurt by that. Their hand changes what they can do a lot. Backflip and enhanced spider sense comes to mind. Thank you for the comment!
They should probably reverse the Grim Rule and if you don't know the rule, resolve the conflict in the manner that most benefits the player, because it seems most people are way too hard on themselves. Maybe call it the "Heroic Rule". It's more thematic with the game. Grim rule is a better fit for AH.
It really shouldn't matter, because it's a rule for when there's ambiguity. With the updated rules and errata, there's very few instances where the Grim Rule takes effect. It's a good indicator that if you're using the Grim Rule, then you're actually missing a real rule.
@@VaultBoy13 I see what you’re saying. I view it slightly different though. The way it’s worded is that it’s a rule for when “you can’t find the answer”. If you knew every rule by heart then it works how you said where it is only for when the rules are actually incomplete. But for most people they don’t. And also for new players they don’t know the rules. So in practice it turns into if you don’t want to scour the rule book for sometimes 10-20 minutes in the middle of your game then you get punished for not knowing the game well yet which I am not a fan of. It wouldn’t bother me so much if applying the grim rule resulted in the same outcome generally as finding the answer. But in my experiences, the correct ruling is far more forgiving than the grim rule.
Yes! Newer player here and watched you second top rules mistakes video first! Lol. Love these and are helping me so much playing correctly. Thank you for these and would love more every so often. Thank you!
Question on Quickstrike. Is that basically 2 attacks on the turn Vulture comes into play? Shadow of the past is played. Vulture comes into play and Quickstrike attacks. Finish set up. Then he gets to do a normal minion attack again because he wasn't exhausted from Quickstrike. Now that I've written that out, i think it just dawned on me an even more basic rule question that I've misunderstood. Do minions get to attack on the same turn they were revealed as encounter cards? If not, i think I've figured out why i keep losing.
No they don't attack! That would make the game a lot harder! They only attack during step 2b of the villain phase. If they are revealed as an encounter card they only attack if they have quickstrike. I'm glad that is cleared up for you! The game will be a lot easier now.
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing One thing I learned about overkill is the exception with Ultron III, since all the damaged is dealt at the same time he can't take it since the drone you're attacking is technically still in play.
I'm glad one helped! I kept it more simple for this video and specifically aimed at rules that help you, but I was thinking about making something similar just about rules in general. Like an updated vlog of all the stuff I mess up lol
I can see both sides. So d20's stance is that you did not attack an enemy that had retaliate, meaning it would never trigger. But from the standpoint of retaliate is a response that occurs after the attack, then it would trigger. I personally would lean toward he does get retaliate. Thematically it makes sense to me, because Thanos was just toying with you on stage 1, then on stage 2 he decides to take you seriously and puts on his helmet, and then damages you. As a content creator if I played it I feel like I should stay on the safe side and just give him retaliate. But also I don't think it really matters and if someone doesn't want to do the retaliate because it doesn't make sense to take retaliate damage when you didn't attack an enemy that had retaliate that totally makes sense to me as well. I think we just need to see what ffg says. Another interesting question would be, if thanos has his helmet attached stage 1 and you attack and defeat him, he is defeated, so you don't take retaliate, then stage 2 comes out and searches helmet, do you still take retaliate? lol. It is convoluted.
The rule that I keep forgetting is that when an Ally is chosen to defend, they must exhaust to defend the attack. So you can have an Ally like Nick Fury block against someone like Klaw and only take 1 damage. Since he blocked and is exhausted he cannot block the weapons runner and prevent that damage.
I was losing a lot of games initially then I reread the rules and discovered I hadn’t been giving the villain a face down encounter card when I was in alter ego. 😐
One rule I wish they would look at is the unique rule. It's not a complicated rule and in solo, it's not a big deal but it's such an annoying rule in multiplayer to the point that I just disregard it entirely. It makes 2 player team up games, or 4 player X-Men only games, etc so needlessly annoying and frustrating by only allowing 1 person to have an X-Jet, or signature allies not being allowed to enter play, certain heroes like nebula or magneto not being allowed to fight the nebula or magneto villain, etc.
Ya the unique rule can be frustrating. Interestingly enough though, in an interview with the designers they were asked about the unique rule with heroes and villains, and there answer was that the unique rules doesn't explicitly say you can't so it's fine lol. Helicarriers in multiplayer will always work though!
Rules I found people do mistake is 1. Not giving boost card for villain reactivation like say Advance or any other encounter card And 2. Considering Hazard Icon as per player.
Ya I thought about talking about boost and whatnot. I used to do the when revealed effect as well as the boost effect when I first started playing. I got all the way to Thanos in the Mad Titan's Shadow campaign doing that but got stuck because it turns out he is way too hard when you play it like that lol
I was able to cut that bit out on the back end. Thank you for pointing it out. Also @JDS8515 thank you, I didn't realize I had said that when I made the video.
My biggest mistake that I only corrected recently was giving everyone extra encounters on hazard icons. The extra encounters are dealt out in player order and not to everyone. With one hazard icon I was giving every player an extra encounter when only the first player should be getting the extra.
Ya that is definitely something I could have included in the video! Hopefully people see your comment!
I literally just figured out the Overkill onto a Villain w/ retaliate a few days ago.
So many rules. Thank for this.
I'm thinking about doing a follow up video!
Please! @@DaringLime
I would add 'Draw, Deal an Encounter Card' (Reference v1.5, pg. 12) to this list. In almost every other LCG I've played 'draw an encounter card' means take a card, flip it and do what's written on it. In Marvel Champions however draw an encounter card is NOT an instruction to reveal/resolve the card being drawn. Unless directed otherwise when you draw or get dealt an encounter card it gets placed facedown in your encounter queue until step four of the villain phase, where it's revealed/resolved with any other encounter cards in the encounter queue.
At a glance it doesn't seem like it should cause you to lose a game the way misinterpreting Retaliate does. You have to deal with the cards eventually so in theory it should help as much as it hurts, but the consequences of resolving encounter cards at the wrong time can be devastating. First and foremost correct timing ensures you always have one full round to deal with the fallout from encounter cards. Encounter cards are designed with that in mind. Especially cards like side schemes with the Crisis icon where the goal is to shift the heroes priorities for the round. If the Justice player is going last and doesn't know Crisis will be in play when their turn comes around they may tell the first player it's safe to switch to Alter-Ego and recover. It feels a bit easy having the entire round to deal with a Crisis side scheme but the point is to pressure you into reacting not to end your game.
Venom has one of the clearest examples of the difference timing can make. If Venom empties their deck refreshing their hand at the end of the player phase and draws/immediately resolves Shadows of the Past they'll definitely take 4x 2 damage attacks from the Enraged Symbiote minions during step two of the villain phase. It also means that during step three of the villain phase the Kylntar Frenzy's Hazard icon will definitely be in play so the team will draw an extra encounter card. Resolving it correctly means Shadows of the Past is facedown in front of Venom during villain phase steps 1-3 so the Enraged Symbiotes and Kylntar Frenzy are still out of play during steps two and three.
It's not all positive, it means you can't spread multiple encounter resolutions out to soften the blows, but understanding the encounter queue really helps you understand how to properly plan out a round.
@@David-And-A-Half that is an interesting example that I didn’t think of! And I agree. Heroes with responses can be hurt by that. Their hand changes what they can do a lot. Backflip and enhanced spider sense comes to mind. Thank you for the comment!
Great video. To the point, clear, and well edited.
Thank you!
They should probably reverse the Grim Rule and if you don't know the rule, resolve the conflict in the manner that most benefits the player, because it seems most people are way too hard on themselves. Maybe call it the "Heroic Rule". It's more thematic with the game. Grim rule is a better fit for AH.
@@anthonychaplin6232 I can see that! Had it not been that way I would have saved myself a lot of heartache.
It really shouldn't matter, because it's a rule for when there's ambiguity. With the updated rules and errata, there's very few instances where the Grim Rule takes effect.
It's a good indicator that if you're using the Grim Rule, then you're actually missing a real rule.
@@VaultBoy13 I see what you’re saying. I view it slightly different though. The way it’s worded is that it’s a rule for when “you can’t find the answer”. If you knew every rule by heart then it works how you said where it is only for when the rules are actually incomplete. But for most people they don’t. And also for new players they don’t know the rules. So in practice it turns into if you don’t want to scour the rule book for sometimes 10-20 minutes in the middle of your game then you get punished for not knowing the game well yet which I am not a fan of. It wouldn’t bother me so much if applying the grim rule resulted in the same outcome generally as finding the answer. But in my experiences, the correct ruling is far more forgiving than the grim rule.
Nice video! Some rules are very tricky, so it's very usefull to make them clear.
Thanks!
Glad it helped! The overkill situation was surprisingly tricky! And all those cards were from core box!
Yes! Newer player here and watched you second top rules mistakes video first! Lol. Love these and are helping me so much playing correctly. Thank you for these and would love more every so often. Thank you!
@@mikehall9240 more videos of this style are on the way! If you can ever stop by a stream it would be cool to say hi!
Wow, super helpful. Discard until... and overkill I didn't play correctly.
@@cleave99 I didn’t either until many many games of doing it wrong and getting extra minions lol
@@DaringLime Now subscribed!
@@cleave99 thank you so much!
Great tips!
Glad you made it through your "grim rules" :)
GAME ON!
thanks shane! I've found that most of my rules mistakes to this day i'm still making things harder on myself.
Question on Quickstrike. Is that basically 2 attacks on the turn Vulture comes into play? Shadow of the past is played. Vulture comes into play and Quickstrike attacks. Finish set up. Then he gets to do a normal minion attack again because he wasn't exhausted from Quickstrike.
Now that I've written that out, i think it just dawned on me an even more basic rule question that I've misunderstood. Do minions get to attack on the same turn they were revealed as encounter cards? If not, i think I've figured out why i keep losing.
No they don't attack! That would make the game a lot harder! They only attack during step 2b of the villain phase. If they are revealed as an encounter card they only attack if they have quickstrike. I'm glad that is cleared up for you! The game will be a lot easier now.
This was great! I liked your concise and clear explanations of each rule! Thanks
Thank you!
Note that in the first example, the masters of evil side scheme would remain in play.
yup!
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing
One thing I learned about overkill is the exception with Ultron III, since all the damaged is dealt at the same time he can't take it since the drone you're attacking is technically still in play.
Ya that is an interesting interaction!
Good idea for a video. The retaliate rule is one I missed!
I'm glad one helped! I kept it more simple for this video and specifically aimed at rules that help you, but I was thinking about making something similar just about rules in general. Like an updated vlog of all the stuff I mess up lol
Great video. Well done!
Thank you!
I'm curious, what's your stance on the recent retaliate rule discussion with Thanos?
I can see both sides. So d20's stance is that you did not attack an enemy that had retaliate, meaning it would never trigger. But from the standpoint of retaliate is a response that occurs after the attack, then it would trigger. I personally would lean toward he does get retaliate. Thematically it makes sense to me, because Thanos was just toying with you on stage 1, then on stage 2 he decides to take you seriously and puts on his helmet, and then damages you. As a content creator if I played it I feel like I should stay on the safe side and just give him retaliate. But also I don't think it really matters and if someone doesn't want to do the retaliate because it doesn't make sense to take retaliate damage when you didn't attack an enemy that had retaliate that totally makes sense to me as well. I think we just need to see what ffg says. Another interesting question would be, if thanos has his helmet attached stage 1 and you attack and defeat him, he is defeated, so you don't take retaliate, then stage 2 comes out and searches helmet, do you still take retaliate? lol. It is convoluted.
Very good video! Subscribed to your content, keep it up!
Thanks for the sub! I'll make more videos in the future!
Very nice video! I think it would be helpful to timestamp everything for future reference!
That’s a good idea. I’ll do that tomorrow
The rule that I keep forgetting is that when an Ally is chosen to defend, they must exhaust to defend the attack. So you can have an Ally like Nick Fury block against someone like Klaw and only take 1 damage. Since he blocked and is exhausted he cannot block the weapons runner and prevent that damage.
@@adamholt5395 ya it can be hard to remember everything! I still make rules mistakes to
This day. It’s inevitable I think.
I was losing a lot of games initially then I reread the rules and discovered I hadn’t been giving the villain a face down encounter card when I was in alter ego. 😐
@@fandabidozi3191 oh no! That’s the opposite of my goal for this video.
Great video!
Thanks! Nice to hear coming from the rules master themself!
One rule I wish they would look at is the unique rule. It's not a complicated rule and in solo, it's not a big deal but it's such an annoying rule in multiplayer to the point that I just disregard it entirely. It makes 2 player team up games, or 4 player X-Men only games, etc so needlessly annoying and frustrating by only allowing 1 person to have an X-Jet, or signature allies not being allowed to enter play, certain heroes like nebula or magneto not being allowed to fight the nebula or magneto villain, etc.
Ya the unique rule can be frustrating. Interestingly enough though, in an interview with the designers they were asked about the unique rule with heroes and villains, and there answer was that the unique rules doesn't explicitly say you can't so it's fine lol. Helicarriers in multiplayer will always work though!
Rules I found people do mistake is
1. Not giving boost card for villain reactivation like say Advance or any other encounter card
And
2. Considering Hazard Icon as per player.
Ya I thought about talking about boost and whatnot. I used to do the when revealed effect as well as the boost effect when I first started playing. I got all the way to Thanos in the Mad Titan's Shadow campaign doing that but got stuck because it turns out he is way too hard when you play it like that lol
@@DaringLime haha whattt both boost and when revealed haha. thats like expert mode then
@@jaydeestrong ya it was awful. I wwas thinking to myself "When Revealed:" well i just flipped the card from face down to face up so I revealed it lol
@@DaringLime the one that confused me before is when revealed of setup cards
Technically put into play and when revealed
@@jaydeestrong ya i used to do that too. I think there is enough here to make a second video in this format
Why would you discard the side scheme in #1? The side scheme stays out, you just don't get a minion engaged with you
The scheme definitely stays out. I don't know why I said that tbh. I think I was just in between setting up scenes.
I was able to cut that bit out on the back end. Thank you for pointing it out. Also @JDS8515 thank you, I didn't realize I had said that when I made the video.
I am trying to beat Zola with Hawkeye in Rise of Red Skull. It's hard! And I have 2 zero cost escaped prisoners.
expert level
@@henrikwakman7776 if you look at my channel I have a video playing Hawkeye against Zola using the fantasy modular! Maybe that would be useful
@@henrikwakman7776 a challenge for sure!
Best!!
@@pechy0 thank you!