I program tool paths for helical bevel gears and other more complicate parts in ESPRIT for our HAAS 750 for almost 2 years now and your videos still teaching me lessons how to do proper, nice to watch, toolpaths. Thank you.
I always love watching your machining videos. The part that I love best is when you explain what you did and why you did it. You always put a lot of thought into the process, trying to avoid mistakes and tool wear before they happen. That's the sign of a great manufacturing engineer! When I was programming back in the 1980s and 1990s we did not have CAM..... Everything had to be programmed by hand, one line at a time. And, as in this case, we always have to be careful not to run the tool into clamps or holding fixtures (like chucks and tailstocks). I wouldn't even imagine how to begin programming the way you do...... It's totally amazing! I just wanted to tell you that I consider you one of the best manufacturing men out there..... ANYWHERE. It's your kind of thinking processes that brought technology to the point of where it is today! 👍
I've watched your videos for years. youtube stopped showing your new videos for me and i couldn't remember your channel name but I finally found it.🔥🔥🔥
The comments about the ballnose cutter cutting on an angle was interesting to me. I use a lot of ballnose and tapered ball nose cutters on my 3 axis cnc router, and now I'm thinking I should increase the RPMs. Unfortunately I can't change the angle, but realizing that a ballnose is effectively a very small diameter tool in those situations may help me out!
It’s a downhole casing reamer. They will apply carbide to the exterior of those flutes and incorporate it into the drill string so it opens the hole enough to run casing into the bore.
Hi Edge, your knowledge and experience are amazing, even though I have very very little cnc experience, equivalent to Zero....I am enthralled by the things you machine, best wishes from an old guy in Florida, Paul
On the vertical walls where the ball endmill was being used, yes. But on the diameter below them not really any better (in fact not as good) than the bull nosed endmill.
Nice work dude 💯 I think you could program that with a subroutine, at least the roughing. I have been doing that using incremental H commands for the rotation angle instead of C. The coolant causes thermal cracking of the carbide because the insert is engaged in the material for that split second and isn't getting coolant until the chip curls away, and then it is exposed to the coolant again and rapidly cools. Like you said, it's better running dry with air blast maintaining a consistent temperature at the cutting edge. I get at least 4 times the tool life running dry like that. I also have a Mitsubishi index-able I use for steel, VP15 grade I think, it kicks ass.
11:25 a good way to think of this is that the center of the tool is traveling nearly zero linear distance per revolution. Think of it like standing on the very center of a merry-go-round. This means that the chip load, no matter what the feed rate, has the tendency to explode to infinity. The absolute center is removing infinite material relative to its linear surface footage. There is also, as you mentioned, the issue of recutting the chips. Those fines will act like sand paper. We use some CNMG inserts for heavy roughing on 1040 at my shop. We are taking .130 DOC at ~.025 IPR. There is a brutal interrupted cut in the middle of the roughing. The inserts last about 35 parts with high pressure coolant, and 50 without. My theory is that it's the thermal shock induced during that interrupted cut, and the coolant makes this worse. In addition, the Sandvik inserts we use seem to behave better once the coating has some heat in it. In light cutting applications like this, I think about it like the process of burnishing... The metal has to be warm to be nice and ductile so that the tool and workpiece slick past each other. Im a junior machinist, still learning and I don't know a dang thing. Please let me know if there's anything I am thinking about incorrectly.
Great job as always! I’m quite certain this is used as a downhole drilling tool. If so you are correct that the reamers (ribs) will be hardfaced with tungsten or something specific to the conditions of the well being drilled.
Just as an FYI if you didn't already know, you can put a main program in the machines memory that just has an M98 with the program number of the actual program you want to run and it will go grab the main much larger one out of the hard drive of the machine with the actual toolpaths which is much larger and run it that way. I do it all the time with my 15+ MB surfacing programs that I want to do all at once in my 2MB mazak controller. It does not seem to affect the reading speed of the code at all and lets you fit extremely large programs and run them all at once
@@EdgePrecision give it a shot and see if maybe it works on yours too, I know it's a little older generation control but if it does work it makes life a lot easier. Also you can try using a G65 so it searches the whole memory instead of M98 if that doesn't work.
Seems like I tried this in the past and it wouldn’t work on my control. I think mine needs that special drive card you insert in the control next to the monitor. But I may try it again just to make sure. But really it only takes a minute to change programs. If I was running a lot of parts it may be worth it.
@@EdgePrecision that's true, I run much more production parts of at minimum 100 pieces so the program changes would get annoying but given your style of parts and quantity it probably wouldn't make much difference. Just thought I'd throw the idea out if you never had tried it. Keep up the great videos!
*Summary* * *0:00* The video shows the machining process of a helical fluted part made from 4140 steel. * *0:08* The machining is done on a Mitsubishi 5-axis mill. * *0:10* Roughing is performed with a 3/4" diameter, 3-flute endmill, running dry (without coolant). * *2:04* Finishing the flutes is done with a 1/2" bull nose endmill, also running dry. * *5:42* A ball endmill is used for finishing the sides of the flutes with a 5-axis surfacing technique. * *9:09* The programmer used ESPRIT CAM software and had to split the program into smaller parts because the machine's memory was limited. * *11:00* The video also briefly discusses optimal tool angles for ball endmills, emphasizing the importance of avoiding cutting with the very tip of the tool. * *24:50* The final part is within tolerance and only requires minor deburring. * *27:44* The part will likely undergo further processing with laser hard cladding. I used Google Gemini 1.5 Pro exp 0801 to summarize the transcript. Cost (if I didn't use the free tier): $0.0784 Time: 15.41 seconds Input tokens: 21055 Output tokens: 453
I agree with everything except taking finish cuts without coolant. I run all milling tools "dry" with AIR blast and finish using coolant. Maybe with that particular tool you have or something it doesn't work well, but otherwise in every single scenario I run coolant. If you try to run feed mills or high speed machining (profit milling in esprit) without good air blast, the amount of heat generated breaks down the coating on the inserts and they fail. At least that's been my experience
the axes of the machine must be treated and the b-axis must be straight. Otherwise the surfaces will not meet and there will be stairs. Wonderful work.👍
If I'm understanding what you are saying? What most people don't consider when milling an OD like this with a regular endmill. The tool is cutting on its center unlike when milling flat surfaces a standard endmill when facing is just cutting on the edge of the tips, because most endmills have an intentional dish of 1-1.5 degrees on their tips. So on an OD they will not leave even a flat while going down the helical spiral. There will be a hump in the middle. If you mill around the OD just feeding the C axis this will be even more pronounced. Unless you had a special endmill ground with a flat tip. So a standard spiral wrapped pocketing cycle wont leave a nice finish on the C axis moves. Now the way I did it isn't exactly perfect either, but with the .125 tip radius on a .500 diameter tool it is in effect milling with a .250 diameter tool. The big tip radius blends together the individual passes to leave a better finish then a .250 endmill would leave.
Great video. It's really great to see somebody doing similar work. I also use ESPRIT and helical flight part but contoured so no flat bottom face. But we are limited to a VNC535 with rotary. Hopefully, we can get some intergrex 200 soon! Is the wall a vertical 'ish'? Look into the free form scarf cycle with solid EM. Maybe get more consistent finish side to side, possible cycle time reduction.
Nice vid as always :) Have you ever tried running a program from the HDD directly? I’ve run a 3 axis mazak with the 640M control and if your had a program on the HDD, you could run it using Tape mode instead of memory mode, I think you need to use a program number that’s not in memory for it to work. Also a disadvantage is that you can’t see the current line the control is on as it seems to kind of drip feed it internally. If you do it correctly you should get a red HDD (I think) icon in the bottom right corner of the screen next to the green TPS(I think again, it’s been a while :) ) Thanks for the great content
It seems like I tried this in the past and it would not work. Be that as it may. I kind of like running smaller programs and being able to restart them and seeing the program. I have run drip feed on the horizontal and my Haas in the garage.
13:22 I'm sure you probably could have kept that angle and not had chip evacuation issues when cutting the other side if you shifted in y, instead of the cut happening towards the operator have it happening away that way you don't run into b axis rotation limitations since it doesn't need to move, your just shifting that tool path not quite 120° but maybe say 100, so instead of doing the bottom of the cut like shown in 8:24 on the bottom of that ball you can do it on the side of the ball you'll probably run into clearance concerns and definitely visibility issues when setting up but it may be worth the extra hassle in that case, the endmill is round and cuts a round profile so you won't run into any different deflection issues than normal, just in a different direction, instead of the tool moving up it will be on the side and still away from the part because your climb cutting
I have done parts in the past where I made a fixture to extend it out supported by the steady rest. That way I could tip the B axis both ways. But for one part it just isn't worth it.
About the collision problem, do these machines not have safe limits? I run an Okuma lathe, and it allows you to simply set a limit to where the turret is allowed to go, and it will not go any further than that. Mind you, I've never worked with Mazak or, sadly, with one of these lathes with a milling head, so I might be completely off here.
Does the mazak control use G12.1 (polar interpolation) to interpolate the c and y axis? And possibly show some of the g-code?? Thanks ive learned a lot from your videos.
Actually it isn't necessary. It's there because I selected to rotate it in in the cycle. Whenever you see the letters I,J,K in a G-code program they are corresponding to X,Y,Z. So the G68 X0. Y0. Z0. I0. J1. K0. R0 Line X0.Y0,Z0 is the rotation center point and the I,J,K are defining the rotation line from the rotation center point. In this case in J 1.0 for the Y axis. But as I said this rotation doesn't really rotate anything from the normal XY plane. Because the R value is zero. For milling on the OD for instance the R would be 90.0. That would mean you would also index the B axis to 90 as well and be milling like a vertical mill but X plus is toward the chuck. As if you were standing behind a vertical mill. Because the rotation is at 90.0 degrees. Does that make sense?
@EdgePrecision ok, yes, that makes sense thanks. One more question... I am currently running a V.T.L with live tooling and have been using g12.1 to program c and x axis milling tool paths. But we have recently purchased a horizontal lathe with a y axis and do not have a post processor to support the y axis yet. So do you think it would be possible to to write a program using g12.1 with c and x and then change all the c's to y's and just interpolate the x and y because with g12.1 active it converts the c axis from degrees to absolute numbers? Forgive me if this is a silly question but I do not have much 4th and 5th axis experience. Any advice on y axis programing would be greatly appreciated because Trying to write by hand is not going to well lol. Thanks again!
The code for wrapped contour that the cam software generates is really very simple. For instance the finish floor passes on this part. The machine while in the middle of the pass is only moving two axis. The Z and the C axis. The X,Y and B axis are not moving once posistioned. You just get the allusion watching it that it’s more than that. Your brain processes it like the machine is traveling down a helix but it’s just going in a straight line (the Z axis) and rotating the C axis to match the lead. The cam software just figures out where that is.
Here is a general question that came to mind. I am setting up an Okuma CNC lathe with no tool presetter. I touch off the Z against a machined face using a dowel pin which works fine for both external and internal tools. The X of external tools I can touch off against a piece of machined stock with known diameter again using the dowel pin. With boring bars I might do the same against an inner surface (would need a larger diameter to have enough room to hold the pin) but it seems a bit more impractical. How do you go about this, any tips and tricks?
To set a boring bars diameter or X offset I usually actually cut a diameter with the bar. Jog the tool up to the part manually skim a diameter by manually jogging with the spindle running. Then jog back in Z without moving the tool in X! Far enough back so you can measure the bore. Then on the control your machine should have a teach function to set the X offset. This is the best way to manually set the X offset on any tool. You can do the same with a OD turning tool by cutting an OD diameter and mic the diameter and then teaching the X offset as well. If for some reason you can’t make a skim cut with your boring bat but you have a turn’ed diameter on the OD. You can carefully jog the boring bar up close to the part with your dowel pin on the OD hanging over the parts end just enough to touch the boring bar. Now carefully jog the bar in X till the dowel pin just contacts the bar’s tip. Then teach that OD’s diameter in X for that tool. This should set it reasonably close. Just set the wear offset smaller for your first cut. Then make the appropriate adjustments after the first cut. Hope that helps.
Thanks so much Peter! In fact just yesterday I did set up boring bars with the overhanging dowel pin and made test cuts afterwards and they were within 0.05 - 0.1 mm. But I would like that close to an order of magnitude more accurate. We do a lot of small production runs so reducing setup time is a necessity although accuracy is always my first goal.
@@mateuszordakowski7414 The machine does have a laser tool setter. But it has never functioned sense I have owned the machine. It also has a tool setter arm. It is so difficult to use because it is very high up above the spindle. It is easer to manually to touch off the tools for me. But even on machines that I have used a tool setter on. I never use them to set endmills diameter. I just measure the diameter with a micrometer.
Ahhhh yes, the machine's memory capacity. We own a small 4-axis Mazak, which has 8Mbs of memory after it was upgraded from 2Mbs! With modern 3d adaptive strategies it is far too little. I do not understand why is it such a problem and why a controller worth like 20k USD does not have let's say 1Gb of memory? It's ridiculous!
Yeah, its ridiculous... and its mostly Mazak or Fanuc. They have these useless, artificially limits that have absoluelty no reason for the last 20 years...
Hello! I'm wondering if you got any info on running ISO/EIA programs outside Mazatrol? Not very much info in my language to help me out. I've got ISO/EIA to run through Mazatrol, to some extent. But I'm having difficulty running them standalone on my Integrex 200-IV. I don't even know what mode to run them through. Any help would be very much appreciated!
I run only ISO/EIA (G Code) programs on the Mazak Integrex. My machine is a E650 H machine with a 640M Pro control. First of all you Cam software has to be able to post code that is compatible with your machine and its control. Or you would have to know exactly how to edit the code to make it work. It's not going to be possible to run the machine on just any code. The mode you run in is the same as a Mazatrol program. It is how you select what you running (Not editing) program that determines if your running EIA or Mazatrol. On my control to select the running program. I would press the MEMORY key then the soft key PROGRAM then the soft key WORK No. you should get a popup window where you select a running program. (This is the same as you select a Mazatrol program). What you have to do is make sure your EIA program is in there (That folder on the hard drive) to select. There are two folders my control uses. C:\MC_Machine Programs This is for the running programs. And D:\MC_Backup\Programs This is where I can store programs in my control. So from my computer I send my program to this folder over an either-net connection/cable. But if your control has a USB port you could also copy and past it from a USB stick to that folder. Then in the control I use the PROGRAM TRANSFER soft key to move it to the running directory. To do this. First be in the manual mode. To get to that key first press the PROGRAM soft key. Then the PROGRAM FILE soft key. Then the DIRECTORY CHANGE KEY. Change to the BACKUP PROGRAM directory. Then high-lite the program number and push the PROGRAM TRANSFER soft key and input key on the keyboard. This will transfer that program into the STANDARD PROGRAM directory. (That's what it is called on the program transfer window). The running directory (Standard Program) has limited memory size so if your program is to large it will give you a error message saying you file is to large to fit. The Directory folder D:\MC_Backup\Programs has a large memory size to store many or all your programs. So store your programs there and just transfer your running program to the C:\MC_Machine Programs (Standard Program) only. I also leave my Renishaw probing programs there permanently. Also you need any sub programs your main running program may call in that directory or it will not find them. That's kind of a long answer also your control may use different directory/folders on it's computer to do this so you may have to determine that. Hope that helps Thanks!
@@EdgePrecision Thank you! Using Mastercam with In-House post, which according to forums should be the best one for this machine. Running programs through Mazatrol works, but it does not accept many standard G codes, like G54, G90, G91, etc. Hopefully it will accept these once I get it running standalone outside Mazatrol. This has the Matrix control, I usually edit the ISO program to make it work, but things like drilling cycles it does not like. Gonna have a crack at it tomorrow!
@@EdgePrecision thanks for the info and help, I've got this to run now, although I see my post is not optimal. However, I am able to run G54, but it only compensates in Z. If I try to compensate, let's say, Y, in work offset window, nothing changes. Any G-code or somethink I am missing?
@@EdgePrecision EIA yes, not in the very begining, but after tool change, maybe 10-12 lines down. I have a line that says G0 G90 G53 B30, followed by a line G54 C0
How are you liking Esprit Edge for Millturn? We've been struggling to transition from the 20XX series to edge due to under developed factors in our specific machines.
![[Live] : ONE FIGHT NIGHT 25 วันนี้!! "อเล็กซิส vs รีเกียน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/suVr9a6BM2g/mqdefault.jpg)
I program tool paths for helical bevel gears and other more complicate parts in ESPRIT for our HAAS 750 for almost 2 years now and your videos still teaching me lessons how to do proper, nice to watch, toolpaths. Thank you.
I always love watching your machining videos. The part that I love best is when you explain what you did and why you did it. You always put a lot of thought into the process, trying to avoid mistakes and tool wear before they happen. That's the sign of a great manufacturing engineer!
When I was programming back in the 1980s and 1990s we did not have CAM..... Everything had to be programmed by hand, one line at a time. And, as in this case, we always have to be careful not to run the tool into clamps or holding fixtures (like chucks and tailstocks). I wouldn't even imagine how to begin programming the way you do...... It's totally amazing!
I just wanted to tell you that I consider you one of the best manufacturing men out there..... ANYWHERE. It's your kind of thinking processes that brought technology to the point of where it is today! 👍
I saw in a book once a setup to mill a helix on a manual machine it was quite the deal to do manually. CNC really shines on a job like this.
I've watched your videos for years. youtube stopped showing your new videos for me and i couldn't remember your channel name but I finally found it.🔥🔥🔥
I love the camera angles! And the explanations and simulations are very interesting. Thanks and have a nice day .
Always an interesting part getting machined never boring.
Work of art.
The comments about the ballnose cutter cutting on an angle was interesting to me. I use a lot of ballnose and tapered ball nose cutters on my 3 axis cnc router, and now I'm thinking I should increase the RPMs. Unfortunately I can't change the angle, but realizing that a ballnose is effectively a very small diameter tool in those situations may help me out!
Here's a guy who knows what he's doing!
What it is I have no idea but it'd make a nice conversation piece. Thank you as always for the insight.
It’s a downhole casing reamer. They will apply carbide to the exterior of those flutes and incorporate it into the drill string so it opens the hole enough to run casing into the bore.
Hi Edge, your knowledge and experience are amazing, even though I have
very very little cnc experience, equivalent to Zero....I am enthralled by the
things you machine, best wishes from an old guy in Florida, Paul
Looks good. Always impressed with you attention to details.
Just incredible work as usual Pete, thanks for sharing 👍👌🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦
Awesome video and part! Thanks for the Esprit content! I was one of the ones that asked. I really enjoy hearing you discuss your machining strategy.
On the vertical walls where the ball endmill was being used, yes. But on the diameter below them not really any better (in fact not as good) than the bull nosed endmill.
This is just soooooooo amazing. Man this really makes me dream big.
Nice work dude 💯 I think you could program that with a subroutine, at least the roughing. I have been doing that using incremental H commands for the rotation angle instead of C. The coolant causes thermal cracking of the carbide because the insert is engaged in the material for that split second and isn't getting coolant until the chip curls away, and then it is exposed to the coolant again and rapidly cools. Like you said, it's better running dry with air blast maintaining a consistent temperature at the cutting edge. I get at least 4 times the tool life running dry like that. I also have a Mitsubishi index-able I use for steel, VP15 grade I think, it kicks ass.
Un vídeo más mostrando trabajos excelentes, donde se ve la experiencia, gracias por compartir!
Beautiful piece. Would make a great door stop.
A good door opener, too.
11:25 a good way to think of this is that the center of the tool is traveling nearly zero linear distance per revolution. Think of it like standing on the very center of a merry-go-round. This means that the chip load, no matter what the feed rate, has the tendency to explode to infinity. The absolute center is removing infinite material relative to its linear surface footage. There is also, as you mentioned, the issue of recutting the chips. Those fines will act like sand paper.
We use some CNMG inserts for heavy roughing on 1040 at my shop. We are taking .130 DOC at ~.025 IPR. There is a brutal interrupted cut in the middle of the roughing. The inserts last about 35 parts with high pressure coolant, and 50 without. My theory is that it's the thermal shock induced during that interrupted cut, and the coolant makes this worse. In addition, the Sandvik inserts we use seem to behave better once the coating has some heat in it.
In light cutting applications like this, I think about it like the process of burnishing... The metal has to be warm to be nice and ductile so that the tool and workpiece slick past each other.
Im a junior machinist, still learning and I don't know a dang thing. Please let me know if there's anything I am thinking about incorrectly.
Thanks for sharing as always. Tricky part with the ball endmill…
Very cool, in a twisted kind of way. Nice work
this is awesome, thanks Peter!
Excelente trabajo. Maestro.
¡Gracias!
That's a cool looking part!
that part looks like a Sinusoidal Turboencabulator
Yes ~ I was thinking that also 👍🏻
I see what you did there...
But I don't think this was made for Rockwell Automation.
Note the total lack fannular vanes.
Thank you for your time 👍
Great video, great part!
Found you and came here through Stefan Gotteswinter mentioning your techniques.
Thanks, lot of useful info here
very very good video Peter
Amazing Peter! I think you get work that everyone else "No Quotes"
youve got some nice stuff and clean paths. i just need a couple of those customers and i can retire
Quality information you know your stuff.
Great job as always! I’m quite certain this is used as a downhole drilling tool. If so you are correct that the reamers (ribs) will be hardfaced with tungsten or something specific to the conditions of the well being drilled.
8:56 that camera angle maaate, that is awesome
This would be a good job for circle segment / accelerated finishing tools.
Outstanding....
that is a sweet looking pattern that roughing pass left.
Just as an FYI if you didn't already know, you can put a main program in the machines memory that just has an M98 with the program number of the actual program you want to run and it will go grab the main much larger one out of the hard drive of the machine with the actual toolpaths which is much larger and run it that way. I do it all the time with my 15+ MB surfacing programs that I want to do all at once in my 2MB mazak controller. It does not seem to affect the reading speed of the code at all and lets you fit extremely large programs and run them all at once
What controller does your machine have?
@@EdgePrecision I have a smart, matrix, matrix 2 and smooth. It seems to work on all of the ones that I have.
@@EdgePrecision give it a shot and see if maybe it works on yours too, I know it's a little older generation control but if it does work it makes life a lot easier. Also you can try using a G65 so it searches the whole memory instead of M98 if that doesn't work.
Seems like I tried this in the past and it wouldn’t work on my control. I think mine needs that special drive card you insert in the control next to the monitor. But I may try it again just to make sure. But really it only takes a minute to change programs. If I was running a lot of parts it may be worth it.
@@EdgePrecision that's true, I run much more production parts of at minimum 100 pieces so the program changes would get annoying but given your style of parts and quantity it probably wouldn't make much difference. Just thought I'd throw the idea out if you never had tried it. Keep up the great videos!
I get the feeling if I did a job like this I would constantly break everything.
tools, machines,parts myself!!
*Summary*
* *0:00* The video shows the machining process of a helical fluted part made from 4140 steel.
* *0:08* The machining is done on a Mitsubishi 5-axis mill.
* *0:10* Roughing is performed with a 3/4" diameter, 3-flute endmill, running dry (without coolant).
* *2:04* Finishing the flutes is done with a 1/2" bull nose endmill, also running dry.
* *5:42* A ball endmill is used for finishing the sides of the flutes with a 5-axis surfacing technique.
* *9:09* The programmer used ESPRIT CAM software and had to split the program into smaller parts because the machine's memory was limited.
* *11:00* The video also briefly discusses optimal tool angles for ball endmills, emphasizing the importance of avoiding cutting with the very tip of the tool.
* *24:50* The final part is within tolerance and only requires minor deburring.
* *27:44* The part will likely undergo further processing with laser hard cladding.
I used Google Gemini 1.5 Pro exp 0801 to summarize the transcript.
Cost (if I didn't use the free tier): $0.0784
Time: 15.41 seconds
Input tokens: 21055
Output tokens: 453
I agree with everything except taking finish cuts without coolant. I run all milling tools "dry" with AIR blast and finish using coolant.
Maybe with that particular tool you have or something it doesn't work well, but otherwise in every single scenario I run coolant.
If you try to run feed mills or high speed machining (profit milling in esprit) without good air blast, the amount of heat generated breaks down the coating on the inserts and they fail. At least that's been my experience
Nice work there 👍🏼
Very nice machine 👍👍
Superb work,
the axes of the machine must be treated and the b-axis must be straight. Otherwise the surfaces will not meet and there will be stairs. Wonderful work.👍
If I'm understanding what you are saying? What most people don't consider when milling an OD like this with a regular endmill. The tool is cutting on its center unlike when milling flat surfaces a standard endmill when facing is just cutting on the edge of the tips, because most endmills have an intentional dish of 1-1.5 degrees on their tips. So on an OD they will not leave even a flat while going down the helical spiral. There will be a hump in the middle. If you mill around the OD just feeding the C axis this will be even more pronounced. Unless you had a special endmill ground with a flat tip. So a standard spiral wrapped pocketing cycle wont leave a nice finish on the C axis moves. Now the way I did it isn't exactly perfect either, but with the .125 tip radius on a .500 diameter tool it is in effect milling with a .250 diameter tool. The big tip radius blends together the individual passes to leave a better finish then a .250 endmill would leave.
Great video. It's really great to see somebody doing similar work. I also use ESPRIT and helical flight part but contoured so no flat bottom face. But we are limited to a VNC535 with rotary. Hopefully, we can get some intergrex 200 soon!
Is the wall a vertical 'ish'? Look into the free form scarf cycle with solid EM. Maybe get more consistent finish side to side, possible cycle time reduction.
Yes I think it could be done with a 1.0” diameter ball mill.
B axis work ain't cheap, drillers only ones that can afford it.
Nice vid as always :)
Have you ever tried running a program from the HDD directly? I’ve run a 3 axis mazak with the 640M control and if your had a program on the HDD, you could run it using Tape mode instead of memory mode, I think you need to use a program number that’s not in memory for it to work. Also a disadvantage is that you can’t see the current line the control is on as it seems to kind of drip feed it internally. If you do it correctly you should get a red HDD (I think) icon in the bottom right corner of the screen next to the green TPS(I think again, it’s been a while :) )
Thanks for the great content
It seems like I tried this in the past and it would not work. Be that as it may. I kind of like running smaller programs and being able to restart them and seeing the program. I have run drip feed on the horizontal and my Haas in the garage.
13:22
I'm sure you probably could have kept that angle and not had chip evacuation issues when cutting the other side if you shifted in y, instead of the cut happening towards the operator have it happening away that way you don't run into b axis rotation limitations since it doesn't need to move, your just shifting that tool path not quite 120° but maybe say 100, so instead of doing the bottom of the cut like shown in 8:24 on the bottom of that ball you can do it on the side of the ball you'll probably run into clearance concerns and definitely visibility issues when setting up but it may be worth the extra hassle in that case, the endmill is round and cuts a round profile so you won't run into any different deflection issues than normal, just in a different direction, instead of the tool moving up it will be on the side and still away from the part because your climb cutting
TECHNOLOGY IS GREAT
Hello mr Peter . Nice flutes . Can we get a short video on the Hotel project update ?
and generally an update on what's up , how are you doing ...etc.
I am going to Mexico toward the end of this month. When I get back the beginning of next month I will do an update on it. Thanks!
I want this job
Looks like something used for oil drilling.
Hello. Very informative. How would you approach an internal cut of this? Thank you
It would need to be done with some kind of angle heads. I did a video called “Running a test part with the EL Tool” something like that.
Would a foot of extra stock on the blank - to improve access - help? For a part that involved surely the cost of it would be marginal.
I have done parts in the past where I made a fixture to extend it out supported by the steady rest. That way I could tip the B axis both ways. But for one part it just isn't worth it.
@@EdgePrecision Right, but what about a longer piece of stock, part off what's left when you're done?
About the collision problem, do these machines not have safe limits? I run an Okuma lathe, and it allows you to simply set a limit to where the turret is allowed to go, and it will not go any further than that. Mind you, I've never worked with Mazak or, sadly, with one of these lathes with a milling head, so I might be completely off here.
Yes these can be set. But that still doesn’t allow you to machine the part.
Does the mazak control use G12.1 (polar interpolation) to interpolate the c and y axis? And possibly show some of the g-code??
Thanks ive learned a lot from your videos.
Yes the Mazak will do all that. I’m not at the shop right now. But when I’m back I will find a program I used that on and post an example of the code.
Here is an example of a tool using this this on my Mazak.
Generated by Esprit TNG cam software.
Hope this helps.
**********************************************************
T16.01 T51 M6 (#16.01 ROUGH .50 4FL .015 RAD)
(.500 4FL CARB .030 TIP RAD)
G90 G53 X15.35 Y-12.5
G90 G53 Z0.
G10.9 X0
M200
G97 S4000 M3
G54
M108 M212
G0 B0. C97.5158
M107
G68 X0. Y0. Z0. I0. J1. K0. R0
G43 H16 Z1. M8
X1.0444 Y0.
G91 G17 X C
G90
G12.1 (This Is the code for Polar Coordinate Interpolation)
Z-.985
G1 G94 Z-1.015 F50.
G3 X.9883 C-.043 I-.0066 J-.0496 F32.
G1 X.954 C-.3029
G2 X.9441 C-.3016 I-.005 J.0007
G1 X.9975 C.1036
G3 X.9876 C.1049 I-.005 J.0006
***********Skip to end of tool**********
X-.358 C.9567
G2 X-.3287 C1.021 I.0468 J.0175
S3500
G0 X-.9759 C.9984
G1 G41 X-1.0106 C.7357 F21.
X.0785 C.592
X-.1631 C-1.2393
G40 X.0996 C-1.274
Z-.985 F50.
G0 Z1.
G13.1 (This is canceling Polar Interp.)
G69
M9
G53 X15.35 Y-12.5
G53 Z0.
Thanks this is helpful, curious though the G68 (plane rotation?) With the J1. What is that for.
Actually it isn't necessary. It's there because I selected to rotate it in in the cycle. Whenever you see the letters I,J,K in a G-code program they are corresponding to X,Y,Z. So the G68 X0. Y0. Z0. I0. J1. K0. R0 Line X0.Y0,Z0 is the rotation center point and the I,J,K are defining the rotation line from the rotation center point. In this case in J 1.0 for the Y axis. But as I said this rotation doesn't really rotate anything from the normal XY plane. Because the R value is zero. For milling on the OD for instance the R would be 90.0. That would mean you would also index the B axis to 90 as well and be milling like a vertical mill but X plus is toward the chuck. As if you were standing behind a vertical mill. Because the rotation is at 90.0 degrees. Does that make sense?
@EdgePrecision ok, yes, that makes sense thanks.
One more question... I am currently running a V.T.L with live tooling and have been using g12.1 to program c and x axis milling tool paths. But we have recently purchased a horizontal lathe with a y axis and do not have a post processor to support the y axis yet. So do you think it would be possible to to write a program using g12.1 with c and x and then change all the c's to y's and just interpolate the x and y because with g12.1 active it converts the c axis from degrees to absolute numbers? Forgive me if this is a silly question but I do not have much 4th and 5th axis experience. Any advice on y axis programing would be greatly appreciated because Trying to write by hand is not going to well lol.
Thanks again!
What kind of software you are using? PS: thank you for choosing Poland chuck :)
Esprit TNG.
Can you show the code for the wrap milling portion just as an example?
The code for wrapped contour that the cam software generates is really very simple. For instance the finish floor passes on this part. The machine while in the middle of the pass is only moving two axis. The Z and the C axis. The X,Y and B axis are not moving once posistioned. You just get the allusion watching it that it’s more than that. Your brain processes it like the machine is traveling down a helix but it’s just going in a straight line (the Z axis) and rotating the C axis to match the lead. The cam software just figures out where that is.
Awesome thank you. What B Axis angle did you use to surface the flutes with the ball end mill ?
The B axis was at 75 degrees for the back one and 76 for the front.
Here is a general question that came to mind. I am setting up an Okuma CNC lathe with no tool presetter. I touch off the Z against a machined face using a dowel pin which works fine for both external and internal tools. The X of external tools I can touch off against a piece of machined stock with known diameter again using the dowel pin. With boring bars I might do the same against an inner surface (would need a larger diameter to have enough room to hold the pin) but it seems a bit more impractical. How do you go about this, any tips and tricks?
To set a boring bars diameter or X offset I usually actually cut a diameter with the bar. Jog the tool up to the part manually skim a diameter by manually jogging with the spindle running. Then jog back in Z without moving the tool in X! Far enough back so you can measure the bore. Then on the control your machine should have a teach function to set the X offset. This is the best way to manually set the X offset on any tool. You can do the same with a OD turning tool by cutting an OD diameter and mic the diameter and then teaching the X offset as well. If for some reason you can’t make a skim cut with your boring bat but you have a turn’ed diameter on the OD. You can carefully jog the boring bar up close to the part with your dowel pin on the OD hanging over the parts end just enough to touch the boring bar. Now carefully jog the bar in X till the dowel pin just contacts the bar’s tip. Then teach that OD’s diameter in X for that tool. This should set it reasonably close. Just set the wear offset smaller for your first cut. Then make the appropriate adjustments after the first cut. Hope that helps.
Thanks so much Peter!
In fact just yesterday I did set up boring bars with the overhanging dowel pin and made test cuts afterwards and they were within 0.05 - 0.1 mm. But I would like that close to an order of magnitude more accurate.
We do a lot of small production runs so reducing setup time is a necessity although accuracy is always my first goal.
Another oil tool part. Lol!!!
Stabilizer sleeve for something....
This can also be done on a manual machine
Yes in different ways with a rotary attachment geared to the table.
Sangat hebat
just what kind of machine/jobs uses a end mill thats over a foot in diameter?
I'm not even aware of a end mill 12" in diameter. When they get that large they are usually referred to as face mills.
Do you think the Mazak was your last Mashine? How about a new one? :)
I still have the ones in my garage at home.
How you measure a endmill ? If its not full diameter? Like 7.8 mm. ?
With a micrometer.
@@EdgePrecision so ur mazak dont have option to rotary measure end mill ? And other tools
@@mateuszordakowski7414 The machine does have a laser tool setter. But it has never functioned sense I have owned the machine. It also has a tool setter arm. It is so difficult to use because it is very high up above the spindle. It is easer to manually to touch off the tools for me. But even on machines that I have used a tool setter on. I never use them to set endmills diameter. I just measure the diameter with a micrometer.
Flute Peter
Ahhhh yes, the machine's memory capacity. We own a small 4-axis Mazak, which has 8Mbs of memory after it was upgraded from 2Mbs! With modern 3d adaptive strategies it is far too little. I do not understand why is it such a problem and why a controller worth like 20k USD does not have let's say 1Gb of memory? It's ridiculous!
Yeah, its ridiculous... and its mostly Mazak or Fanuc. They have these useless, artificially limits that have absoluelty no reason for the last 20 years...
Oh there's other lonely Esprit 20XX/TNG/Edge users out there watching 😉
Howdy Peter, How much does this machine weigh?
I'm sorry but I don't know for sure. Monday I can look in the manual.
The serial tag on the machine says 61,933 Lbs.
@@EdgePrecision wow she's a heavy girl!
Must have been quite the task moving her in
@@Donkusdelux Yes but it was all done by the riggers I hired.
Hello! I'm wondering if you got any info on running ISO/EIA programs outside Mazatrol? Not very much info in my language to help me out. I've got ISO/EIA to run through Mazatrol, to some extent. But I'm having difficulty running them standalone on my Integrex 200-IV. I don't even know what mode to run them through. Any help would be very much appreciated!
I run only ISO/EIA (G Code) programs on the Mazak Integrex. My machine is a E650 H machine with a 640M Pro control. First of all you Cam software has to be able to post code that is compatible with your machine and its control. Or you would have to know exactly how to edit the code to make it work. It's not going to be possible to run the machine on just any code. The mode you run in is the same as a Mazatrol program. It is how you select what you running (Not editing) program that determines if your running EIA or Mazatrol. On my control to select the running program. I would press the MEMORY key then the soft key PROGRAM then the soft key WORK No. you should get a popup window where you select a running program. (This is the same as you select a Mazatrol program). What you have to do is make sure your EIA program is in there (That folder on the hard drive) to select. There are two folders my control uses. C:\MC_Machine Programs This is for the running programs. And D:\MC_Backup\Programs This is where I can store programs in my control. So from my computer I send my program to this folder over an either-net connection/cable. But if your control has a USB port you could also copy and past it from a USB stick to that folder. Then in the control I use the PROGRAM TRANSFER soft key to move it to the running directory. To do this. First be in the manual mode. To get to that key first press the PROGRAM soft key. Then the PROGRAM FILE soft key. Then the DIRECTORY CHANGE KEY. Change to the BACKUP PROGRAM directory. Then high-lite the program number and push the PROGRAM TRANSFER soft key and input key on the keyboard. This will transfer that program into the STANDARD PROGRAM directory. (That's what it is called on the program transfer window). The running directory (Standard Program) has limited memory size so if your program is to large it will give you a error message saying you file is to large to fit. The Directory folder D:\MC_Backup\Programs has a large memory size to store many or all your programs. So store your programs there and just transfer your running program to the C:\MC_Machine Programs (Standard Program) only. I also leave my Renishaw probing programs there permanently. Also you need any sub programs your main running program may call in that directory or it will not find them. That's kind of a long answer also your control may use different directory/folders on it's computer to do this so you may have to determine that. Hope that helps Thanks!
@@EdgePrecision Thank you! Using Mastercam with In-House post, which according to forums should be the best one for this machine. Running programs through Mazatrol works, but it does not accept many standard G codes, like G54, G90, G91, etc. Hopefully it will accept these once I get it running standalone outside Mazatrol.
This has the Matrix control, I usually edit the ISO program to make it work, but things like drilling cycles it does not like. Gonna have a crack at it tomorrow!
@@EdgePrecision thanks for the info and help, I've got this to run now, although I see my post is not optimal. However, I am able to run G54, but it only compensates in Z. If I try to compensate, let's say, Y, in work offset window, nothing changes. Any G-code or somethink I am missing?
You are running a EIA program? If so, in the program do you have a line in the beginning that is calling up G54 offset. Say like G00 G90 G54?
@@EdgePrecision EIA yes, not in the very begining, but after tool change, maybe 10-12 lines down. I have a line that says G0 G90 G53 B30, followed by a line G54 C0
How are you liking Esprit Edge for Millturn? We've been struggling to transition from the 20XX series to edge due to under developed factors in our specific machines.