I've found that my Selita/ETA (Hamilton/Tissot/Rado/Mido/Glycine) powered watches are far more delicate - especially if you (like me) didn't know any better and hand wound the watch to get it going. I killed two SW's that way until I got educated. NH35, despite it's unrefined nature is a brilliant piece of engineering.
Exactly. In fact ETA recommends using the hand winding only to get the watch started, and using the automatic rotor to do the rest of the job. NH35 on the other hand, you can abuse however you want and it'll keep on ticking. Hell of a workhorse.
With the exception of tissot, I've always thought all the other watches makers you mentioned are extremely overated and over priced. And now, from this video and comment section I know the sellita movement is delicate garbage
@@khrttartrahht4188 We own two cars. A Mercedes C350 Coupe and a Toyota Corolla. The Mercedes is much more luxurious and infinitely more refined. Will it last as long as the more unrefined Corolla? Nope. Two things can be true at the same time. Same with the movements I mentioned.
Swiss movements are more expensive because the Swiss think that they're more expensive and if the Japanese beat them at anything they'll just change the rules again.
the WORLD... the people (suckers) that buy expensive watches think it has to be Swiss. If anything, Germany is thought of as the premier highly skilled manufacturer. Same reason Stradavarious violins still command a high price. No one can evolve.
Such a misleading description, you shouldn’t said Swiss vs Japanese movement over and over again when comparing a $30 vs $200 movement. Just say the model no. Or just use the equivalent tier movement from each origin like seiko 6r/9 series miyota vs sw200.
Exactly. It's like comparing an Audi A4 to a Honda Accord. One costs a bit more, and you get more for that premium. The nh35 and 36 are made for entry level micro brands. You can spend around 100-250 on a watch with the nh35/36 and you're gonna get a super reliable and accurate watch. I've got an Invicta pro diver with the nh35 and it keeps accurate time for a couple weeks. It's a fantastic watch that cost me 90 bucks brand new.
It's unfair to say this comparison shows the difference in quality or finishing between Swiss and Japanese movements because it compares Sellita's $200 top-grade movement with Seiko's $50 entry-level workhorse. What it really shows are the differences between price points. A more appropriate comparison would be the SW200 and the Seiko 6L35.
@@AvidUTuber I would never hesitate to buy a watch with a Sellita. In my experience, they're solid and easily equal to or better than the ETA movements the design copies. As to whether they're overpriced, that's a whole other conversation, but I wouldn't call them junk relative to any other movement around that price.
Yea the ne15 ne25 6r 6l etc series is to rival 2824-2 and sw200 and all its variant, but on the spec sw200 still end up with better spec overall and a lot cheaper than seiko
To be fair he's showing the expensive 2824 clone here, seagull make she st2130, and another company makes the pt5000, these are both Chinese clones of the 2824, as opposed to Swiss clones, they can be had for around 50ish dollars about the same as nh35, in my ill informed opinion the Chinese 2824s are just as good as the Swiss clones, they all will break from handwinding all the same💀 nh35 feels better wind in my opinion, my 2824 clone feels like in grinding gravel when I wind it
@@AvidUTuberthey are likely saying this because it is a mundane movement put in watches that cost in the 4 figures, some companies will make small mods to sw200s and call the movements "in house" and ask for more money, another reason people call it overpriced is bc of the focus on longer power reserves instead of smoother second hand sweep (the amount of times the second hand moves per second) the nh35 and miyota 8000 series have 3hz (1hz equates to 2 "tick" of the second hand per second, 3hz=6 beats per second) the sw200 is a "high beat" or a 4hz (8 ticks per second) due to the focus on power reserve, Swiss companies created the powermatic 80 (modified 2824 (2824 is what the sw200 is based off) that is 6hz instead of 8hz, but gets 30 hours more power reserve) these Swiss companies put the powermatic 80 in every cheap watch they have, and as a result the sw200/eta 2824 watches with 4hz moved more upmarket, meaning if you want a Swiss watch with 4hz sweep, you're basically going to have to pay about 1 thousand dollars (unless you buy micrbrands, that's another story) this is a reason why people say they are overpriced, seiko also did something similar with essentially moving their 4hz movements up to the 2000 dollar range.
In my engineering undergrad. I learned equipment that requires tight tolerances will not be as reliable or outlast equipment that does not need those tight tolerances. Requirement of extremely high tolerances imply when Parts wear down, function is impeded thus needing service at a higher rate. This rises down time of use and increases cost
@@whereRbearsTeeth LOL. its fact known by all watchmakers. These professionals are also far less impressed by expensive Swiss watches than the people who buy them.
One movement costs $50 (the Seiko) and the other $189 (the Sellita). You were right at the opening saying that it was not a fair comparison! I would not generalize this to say that all Japanese movements are inferior to Swiss at a given price point.
After spending more than 5000$ to tissot watches, with more than 750$ of it to service costs, I decided to learn a bit, how to do my own service and after understanding mechanism of std automatic watches I started to ask this question, "why those swiss watches are so expensive" At the end, a simple automatic watch, without any serious complication, can be serviced by any hobiest who has proper equipment and when you put it into pieces, you also clearly see that, there is no rocket science behind it. So what is the difference between, a swiss movement and for example, a japanese one. My short answer is there is no significant difference according to my experience, my japanese movements seems to be more robust. I am telling this, because I build my own watch, with miyota 8215 movement and throw in a box all my tissots. At the end, tissots were causing me trouble every 3-5 years and I had to spend each time 200-300$. But, my own production:)) is perfectly working, since more than 6 years and it keeps time good enough (with +10sec per day). In my opinion, such performance is quite acceptable for a 100$ watch. Long story short, use your money for something useful, rather than making rich swiss people richer:))
This isn't even a comparison. The title says "why an SW200 is more expensive than an NH35". It's precisely meant to illustrate the difference between price-points - NOT as an apples v. apples comparison. Could also have called it "Here's what you're getting if you upgrade to the next higher tier of commonly available movements".
"while comparing the nh35 and sw200 isn't fair because they exist in a different price bracket this comparison should show you how Swiss and Japanese movements differ in their underlying design philosophy" - proceeds to not talk about design philosophy and instead unfairly comparing these 2 particular movements.
He actually did explain the design philosophies. One is ease of manufacturer. One solid Bridge instead of several. One makes it easier manufacturer. One makes it easier to service. I would never service an NH35. At $30 for the movement...
@@GeneGirard007 Seiko does have movements made in the way the Sellita SW200 is made. it has nothing to do with design philosophy of the brand. they have different movements for different price points it's like looking at a Japanese K-car and saying the Japanese don't know how to build a luxury car.
Just to play Devils advocate here. I had two Oris watches, both with SW200's, both had to be returned under warranty for issues with their date wheels not adjusting, I've plenty of mechanical watches and only ever adjust the date way clear of midnight, but both had the same issue within six months of new purchase, they never felt particularly clean before or after the warranty work. On the other hand, I've plenty of Seiko's that have simply never given me any issues of any kind, in keeping or adjusting time or date. That said, I still prefer Swiss, but, genuine ETA is the way to go, both my Sellita experiences were poor. Oris's now sold, never going down that road again. Seiko's are just superb workhorses.
I like the H-50 on my Hamilton Automatic which is still the ETA 2801-2, but they have reduced the beat rate to 21,600 VPH (3hz) and increased the size of the barrel to allow for a superior power reserve, quite smart and simple. Getting -1 second a day and sometimes spot on.
2:34 those 2 grams are "less of a burden of your wrist" ? ... are your hands that weak, to feel that 2 grams difference? That's actually 1.7 grams difference, not 2 grams... your wrist is safe! 2:40 Even some Rolexes have plastic parts in theyr movements. and there are MANY watches that use plastic parts in theyr $100,000 watches or more... what are you talking about, my friend? And why are you comparing an $50 movement vs an almost $200 one? why don't you compare a $200 japanese vs $200 swiss? I'm not a fan of japanese or swiss, they're both good, but you're looking like you try too hard to say swiss is way better finished, when you're actually comparing a $50 vs $200 movement.
I have had many Seikos, all of them still working. I also recived as a gift, an Omega Speedmaster. It lays dead for repair, after 10 years of use. The cost of the repair is more than a new Seiko 5
I inherited a Rolex. It is beyond my means to service and repair. My kids will be inheriting my custom built, worn and well loved NH35 watches. All the components except the movement should last through multiple life times and it will never be beyond their financial means to repair or service a priceless item.
Picked up a MaMaCoo 's watch as my first watch last month and I’m absolutely in love with it. Perfect size, looks elegant, very comfortable. Now my only problem is holding off from buying more watches so quickly!
I have numerous of both movements. The most problematic movement I own is the SELLITA SW200 (helicopter effect). Although I do admit the SW200 feels more refined compared to the feel of the NH series. That date changing on the NH35 an hour ahead is not a movement issue, but rather that hands were not set properly (closer to the midnight date change). In the end until SELLIA addresses the known issue with the bad part causing the rotor to spin out of control until something breaks, I'll take the NH35 all day over the SELLITA. As a matter of fact for my money I'll take the Miyota 9series over both the NH and Sellita.
We do have to take into account that SW200 is basically a ETA2824, and that design is pretty dated and it comes with baggage, so to speak. NH35 went through quite a few evolutions and it is one heck of a workhorse. On the date change, perhaps the video didn't do a good job describing it, but what I was trying to say is that it takes much longer for NH35 go from the start of date transition to the actual transition. On sw200 it's about half an hour in real time and on NH35 it's waaay longer.
I don't own any premium automatic Swiss watches to compare it to, but I recently built a watch for the first time using the NH35 movement. I was quite rough with it at times when taking hands off and putting them on again etc, but nothing damaged it. I set it to the exact second using my radio controlled Casio 5610 and for 4 or 5 days, it was as accurate to the second as the Casio. Can't moan at that.
Good video. Couldn't agree more with the final sentences. A 24 jewel NH70 or NH35 is going to feel cheaper (winding, setting date, time etc) than a 28 jewel ETA movement and this ETA is going to feel cheaper than a in house 3135 Rolex Movement, or Patek, Audemars etc
Been watching your videos for a while now and was inspired to start a collection. Started with the MAMACOO, its specs for price and clean looks, now am looking for a dress watch to add.
Thumb-down. Inaccurate. Japanese movements are *_not_* , in-general, less expensive than Swiss movements. This ridiculous video is like comparing a Timex to a Jaeger LeCoultre then saying "this is why US movements are cheaper than Swiss movements". No they're not; you just *_chose_* a cheap movement. Try comparing a Jaeger LeCoultre to an RGM instead. Likewise, you could have chose to compare a $200 Swiss movement to a $200 Japanese movement; that might have been an interesting comparison.
I really respect you guys for introducing the sw200 to the kit lineup! I've always wanted to work with one. Given the two main problems the sw200 faces (handwinding breaking the ratchet wheel, and the reversers getting stuck and causing helicopter rotor) I'd be really happy if you guys released a video showing how to swap out/service these specific parts to fix a broken sw200. Then I'd feel much more confident building and maintaining my own sw200 watch
Reverser wheels are fairly straight forward if you choose the right lubricant. The ratchet wheel is easy to access and swap, and is also inexpensive. The only issue I can think of, is that you might have sheared off teeth as a result of aggressive handwinding. If these teeth have migrated elsewhere into the movement, you may want to consider a service.
Interestingly, ETA 2824 never had problems with ratchet wheel breakage, and stucking reversing wheels (only pivot wear in some service neglected movements). I even encountered second wheel (first after the barrel) teeth wear, ball bearing wear, in reversers - wear in holes for pawls. Just Sellita uses inferior metals, for exapmle, where ETA uses beryllium copper of Glucydur, Sellita uses plain brass, that's why reversers wear out fast and get sticky
@@dima343. I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen too many original ETA 2824. I know that some reversing wheel issues existed even with that movement, which were largely tied to lubrication issues. (helicopter rotor) It's quite possible that the Sellita ratchet wheel is inferior, and I've always wondered if that wheel was sacrificial by design.
I have several 2824/2836/sw200 movements. I also have several NH35/7S26 movements. The ETA2824 is much easier to regulate and has much less positional variation in time accuracy than the Seiko movements. The 2824 and its clones are more satisfying to own and my oldest one at 15+ years without service still keeps great time. I also have two PT5000 Chinese clones of the 2824. They perform just as well as the ETA 2824’s in terms of accuracy and operation. We’ll see if they last as long. They are great value for the small premium over the NH35.
The NH35 might be more difficult to service, but would anyone service it instead of swapping it out for new NH35? Unless the customer insists on servicing the existing movement.
More difficult is a relative term. The SW-200 is easier to access. The NH35, especially on the side of the wheel train, is more like a guided tour. Even if you didn't know the movement, there is also one logical next step in the reassembly and assembly. The SW200 has some odd pitfalls, such as not removing the stem from the right position, which may force you to take parts of the front of the movement apart, just when you thought you had fully assembled a watch. But in the end these differences are minute, if you know what you are doing. Also, if you are going for an inexpensive replacement route, you can buy ETA2824 clones for maybe $5 more than you'd pay for the NH35. These clones aren't pretty, but they are functional. In the end, you shouldn't have much of a service issue with any standard movement.
I would say from experience, any of the Seiko 7S/4R based movements are very easy and logical to service. it typically takes less time to service them than 2824 based movements.
I've recently began my obsession as a watch collector. And i must say- out of all the luxury brands I've been researching, for me the MAMACOO's watches are the most intriguing.
For me personally, I definitely choose NH35 for one reason only. If it broke, then cheaper is to buy a new one than trying to be repaired. In addition, a new one will work much longer than repaired one. For the last in nh35 and alike movements, magic fingers of automatic winding mechanism with additional oil layer are bomb proof.
Very interesting information. I have the NH36 from HK. it definitely has details that could improve, especially the date jump. But it's pretty precise.
I love my Casio digital watch. It beeps hourly and has an alarm functions which an expensive Rolex does not have. It's also more accurate than a Rolex watch. Unlike a Rolex watch which is quite cumbersome to set the time and the date, my Casio watch is very easy to set. I hate wearing a heavy watch. My casio watch is comparatively light. It does not weigh so much like a Rolex watch does. So it's really nice to wear it al the time. It does not cost me a lot to own and more importantly to maintain my Casio watch. The battery can last for up to 7 years. It gives me peace of mind. Unlike a Rolex watch, it's less likely to get stolen and robbed. Casio watch saves me a lot of time, energy, and money. I don't have to visit a watch store every year. Instead of giving my money to a watch store, I can use my money to invest in gold bars. I own gold bars and stocks.
There's a time and place for both. Casio's great for when traveling or golfing. Rolex are great if you have the money for it and appreciate horology and luxury.
And most casio are quite ugly to me but for durability, accuracy, reliability and low cost it's hard to beat a G shock. But I still think they are plain plastic watches.
And considerably more reliable. I can't tell you how many reverser wheel sets I have replaced over 20 years of professional watchmaking. I can remember the singular 1969 6105 magic lever pawl I replaced because it was so "out of the ordinary". But truth be told, Seiko got the magic lever idea from the Swiss (JLC), and reinvisioned it with only 2 components.
sellita in a San Martin? that's interesting, from the little research I did when I was considering them they only used NH movements and the occasional miyota 9000 series
Swiss movement usually have slightly smooth winding due to its tight manufacturing tolerance . If comparing the ETA 2892 /2824 with seiko 7s26 / 4r36 , will notice the ETA have smooth sweep as its 28,800 bph vs seiko 21,600 bph . seiko hi beat and spring drive is another level . For accuracy , nothing beats a quartz or digital watch . Just don't forget to change the battery . Always use a silver oxide ( SR ) , not alkaline ( LR ) and check its expiry date .
The winding feel and the date change have nothing to do with the tolerance of the parts. An instantaneous date change in a gradual date change use two totally different mechanisms. The winding feel depends on the gear ratios in the winding train and the amount of teeth on the gear contacting the click.
I have an ETA2824-2, an SW200-1b and 4R35b (= Seiko's own NH35). They're all great and lasted longer than most things I've owned. The cheaper 4R35b does seem to be more primitive, but also more robust. In these times of planned obsolescence, these timepieces are almost literally timeless...
So let’s sum up, the 30$ movement is a much better quality/price choice that you can buy 6x before even reaching the price of 1 Swiss movement while the difference may not even be noticeable for 99.99% of the people. Thanks for this review !!
IMO, there's a cultural difference (philosophical difference if you will) that goes into the engineering/ finishing of the product here. Swiss movements have a focus on aesthetics and generally are made to be able to use as drop-in as-is without further decorations. If you want to decorate/ modify further, there are other Swiss companies that do modular add-ons. i.e. Targeting smaller capacity productions with a focus on more 'luxury' products. Asian watch movement OEM suppliers focus more on a product that just works - if you want to customize it, go ahead but you're on your own. i.e. You can decorate it if you have the means to, but you could just use it as a lower cost movement in watches that target the mass market (doesn't require flourishes). Hence why you don't see Asian companies that specially offer aftermarket modular add-ons/ finishing services. A better comparison might have been the Miyota 9 series (same beat rate) which does have slightly better finishing than a raw NH series movement.
I would rather have the larger movement as fragility increases as size decreases. Also, date change can be manipulated to wearers liking by installing the hands at 12 midnight just a few minutes after the date begins to change. Date will fully click past midnight but by then most wearers of the watch will be sound asleep so will not notice.
Just so I understand. the point of this was? Compare two entirely different market and price categories, and then point out key category differences showing the entry level doesnt have the same build approach? Then subtly declare the higher category far superior? Talk about stacking the deck and gaming the outcome. You are definitely a high end marketer if that is measured by deception while maintaining the requisite caveats in the beginning (that they are different categories). You failed to mention DRAMATICALLY different categories AND that there are comparable comparisons.
If you already know all of this, then the vid wasn't meant for you. It was meant for people who are more towards the beginning of their learning curve. Nobody needs you to comment to try and show how much you know.
My favorite 2024 is the Prospex Limited Edition 1965 Recreation European Exclusive in Gradation Island Blue. The dial is stunning and the contrast when on a white strap is to die for. I will get my hands on one from AMZWATCH
Not particularly helpful for reasons so many commenters pointed out. I spoke briefly with a watchmaker once and he said the ETA movement is significantly better than the Sellita. Unfortunately, the conversation ended and I didn't have a chance to ask him why. Something that's always annoyed me is that the same Sellita movement will be used in watches with widely varying price points. Many brands are, I think, getting by on past glories, i.e., their name recognition. No matter. Soon I will be attending the American Watch and Clock Association course (Watch 100) and hope to have a lot of my questions answered.
I perhaps didn't describe it clearly enough in the video. What I mean is, the NH takes longer to go from the start of date transition (when the date change mechanism is engaged and starts to transition) to the actual transition at midnight, the click, which both movements should do if cased well. The NH transition started way earlier than midnight, and it took that long to go from start to finish. So, no, it's not a matter of alignment of time.
Bro if one is more expensive, then better/more expensive materials and processing/tooling can be deployed to make it smaller, lighter, tapered etc. This may not be a swiss vs japan thing.
NH35 is actually okay as a daily beater and quite smooth winding in my pagani but my miyota from citizen is not so smooth.I think Seiko movement are smoother and I have not get a swiss watch yet as they are quite expensive
3:23 I guess it's more about hands positioning in NH35 watch. Also plastic part are ok to have, this might be a design idea to have some "fuse", a weakest part of the date mechanism to let users break only this element when adjusting date in a wrong way.
Disclaimer does nothing with ending conclusion like this. There are better japanese movement like Miyota 9015 and they will still be cheaper with better specification. To be specfic with the price bracket. That Swiss movement shown is not just 2 or 3 times the cost but 5 to 10 times the cost of the Japanese movement.
I still prefer japanese movement as for accuracy, reliable, durable & affordable!Servicing at a affordable price range compare to swiss movement! I own a Swiss Army Victorinox Maverick Blue Automatic Model: 241706, and as for the hand winding part, it's troublesome to wind it back & fourth as to be careful for over winding! As for Japanese movement, I can wind it easily & smoothly till now! And no servicing for over 5yrs & still working as good so far! IMO!
I am a novice home watch enthusiast and tinkerer. For my needs I only buy NH series and 82XX watch movements. I would not buy a Selita movement for a hobby watch project. Its over kill and would not really improve the project enough to justify the expense of purchasing a Swiss watch movement. Maybe in the future, when I gain experience and knowledge I might purchase a SW200 movement if it is justified. For now, if you really want a high beat movement, why not try an ST2130 or a PT5000 movement? Cheaper and more practical for the home watch project.
Getting a Chinese 2824 clone is perfectly fine choice to start with. We once disassembled one, man it was so drenched in oil that the US army could invaded it. And its performance deteriorated quickly. But with proper servicing and oiling, it went back to okayish performance. It's an inexpensive choice to get to know the in and outs of a 2824. Not recommended for anything more.
@@DIYWatchClub Performance can vary. I have an ST2130 and also a pt5000 in two of my watches. They are both fine watches. I have heard of other people having issues with theirs but I have had good experience with mine. I have also heard that as time goes on they are improving the quality control on both these movements. People are reporting well oiled and beautifully regulated performance from their PT5000. Yes, I know, Swiss movements are better movements. In my view, I would not put a swiss movement into a hobby watch. Its over kill. If you buy a name brand watch then its ok. Hobby watches usually have very little residual value so you might as well use generic movements.
TMI is SEIKO group, this is a SEIKO movement manufactured outside of Japan. Like a Volkswagen made in Mexico, or a Mercedes made in USA. Nobody would say, that a VW or a Mercedes manufactured outside of Germany are not german cars... 🙂
I've never opened any of my Seiko watches, but I'm willing to bet that the 4R movements have a metal gear instead of the plastic gear that is in the NH ones.
As soon as I saw the title of the video I said to my self: “Buckle up, the comments are gonna get spicey.” I was not disappointed. Brands and in this case movements have their fans and they can get prickly if you say there is something a bit better than what they have. I wish fandom wasn’t so annoying, but it is. Good video.
And spicy it did get. IMO it always is a good thing to get a healthy discussion going. I'm having a blast reading all the first hand experience with both movements.
Subscribed! Can you PLEASE make a video on the new La Joux-Perret G100, D100 and L100 movements? The G100 is made to be a direct competitor to the 2824/SW200 due to the same dimensions. Not sure about the other ones. But they will, or already have appeared in some good value brands such as Frederique Constant and Edox, as well as many microbrands.
Currently, of my mechanical movement watches, (4) of the movements are Swiss and (3) are Japanese. Only one of the Swiss movements has been trouble-free. One was received new with a defective chronograph. Another was received new as COSC-certified, yet it lost 19 seconds per day. I had to return them both for repairs which took several weeks, and I feel like I wound up with used watches for new watch prices. The other was bought as vintage, and while I paid nearly $1k for its service (and waited for nearly half a year), the gears sometimes bind, and setting the time feels coarse. Meanwhile, all of the Japanese movements have been frustration-free. Therefore, my opinion is that Swiss movements are celebrated garbage, and I would choose a Japanese movement if there were a choice for a given watch of interest.
date wheel gears are plastic to remove the need for lubrication (they are considered self-lubricating) since they turn so slowly and have so few teeth. It is not to save money. That is what i have read anyway.
Definitely the most interesting & informative channel in TH-cam，and I am your fan！ I’ve been watching MAMACOO and buying them recently to complement my watch collection. Good video
$200 (+/-) vs $50 (+/-) movement ... I'll take the $50 (+/-) movement, please. 1) More Affordable. I'd only have to save up a couple months for it, not 8 or 9 months or longer. 2a) The $299 (+/-) movement "starts the date change 2 hours before the change, giving you 2 hours you cannot read the date." 2b) The $50 (+/-) movement "does the date change much closer to midnight, and is much snappier." I prefer the more accurate time wise and snappier date change. I KNOW the date hasn't changed yet at 22:00 to 23:59, and it WILL change at 00:00. I don't need advanced "warning" the date is going to change. 3) The $200 (+/-) movement "feels smother" than the $50(+/-) movement when winding ..." ummm ... both are an automatic SELF WINDING movement. WHY would you wind EITHER manually using the crown?!? 🤯😳 4) "The $200 (+/-) Swiss movement "has tighter tolerances and higher finishing" than the $50 (+/-) Japanese movement..." At that price point, I would expect the more expensive movement to have a higher finish, and PROBABLY tighter tolerances than a movement that is in a price category/point 1/4 (+/-) that of the more expensive movements price category/point --- REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE MOVEMENTS ARE MADE!!! I would GUESS a $200 (+/-) Japanese movement would be finished as good - IF NOT BETTER - than a $200 (+/-) Swiss or any other production movement at that price point. As for your implied accusation "tighter tolerances are (always) better" ... I beg to differ. For example: The Soviet/Russian AK (and SKS) series rifles have much LOOSER tolerances than the USA's M-16 based rifles. The venerable 1911 has looser tolerances than the current issue Baretta pistol. In the field, the AK and 1911 are MUCH less likely to jamb WHEN (not "if") conditions are not "ideal". During the Gulf War, men equipped with the then latest version of the M-16 put balloons (or condoms) over their muzzle to help keep sand out of the barrel and action. Sand (and in Vietnam, rain and mud) jammed the M-series rifles used by US troops. The US bolt action "sniper" rifles, and AK series rifles were unaffected by sand/mud/rain. Because of tight tolerances, the first few issue versions of the Baretta were prone to cracked slides, among other problems. The Marine Corps and Special Forces went back to the time proven 1911 pistol. "18 shots of 9mm DON'T "bear" 8 shouts of .45 ACP WHEN THE 9MM CAN'T SHOOT!!!! In a CLEAN office environment, tight tolerances in a watch is probably not an issue. Working a factory production line or a construction site ... they MAY be a problem. Also, tight tolerances WILL require servicing and cleaning more often, since there is no room for the normal dirt and grime that gets into ANY watch movement, no mater how well it is quote-unquote) "sealed" over time. This vid was a waste of time. IF you are going to "compare" a $200 (+/-) Swiss movement to a Japanese movement, COMPARE TO A $200 (+/-) JAPANESE MOVEMENT!!! 😡😡🤬 EVERYTHING ELSE IS IRRELEVANT!!!😡🤬 I saw and heard no relevant "design philosophy differences" in this vid. That the Swiss movement has more time invested in its construction/manufacturing than a movement that sell for roughly 1/4 the price makes sense. LABOR COSTS GO UP THE LONGER IT TAKES TO MANUFACTURE ANYTHING!!! Spend an extra hour or three for a "fine" hand finish, the price will reflect that time.🙄
2:26 I suspect a non negligible part of that 2g difference lies in the huge difference in size between the temporary crowns that are not part of the movement at all. You should have removed the crowns to fairly compare the movements.
Had both in many watches and Seiko Is way Better in every aspect. Is precise as mucho of the eta, charges Better, lasts twice as much and instead of servicing you can change It for the same/ half the price
I can’t believe I’ve never had a Sellita Movement, but I guess between the Swatch Group(Tissot & Blancpain), Rolex, and Revue Thommen I’ve never gotten one, all House or ETA
Hm, the date change closer to midnight is a very inaccurate statement - it doesn't depend on the movement itself, but on the assembly. You can place the hands at midnight in the exact moment of the date change, so it completes the change very close to 0:00. Yeah, the change on the Sellita might be snappier and take less time than on the Seiko, but it has nothing to do with the exact time of the date change. It could as well change at 3:00 if someone assembled the watch this way and it doesn't matter what movement is being used.
I've found that my Selita/ETA (Hamilton/Tissot/Rado/Mido/Glycine) powered watches are far more delicate - especially if you (like me) didn't know any better and hand wound the watch to get it going. I killed two SW's that way until I got educated. NH35, despite it's unrefined nature is a brilliant piece of engineering.
Exactly. In fact ETA recommends using the hand winding only to get the watch started, and using the automatic rotor to do the rest of the job.
NH35 on the other hand, you can abuse however you want and it'll keep on ticking. Hell of a workhorse.
With the exception of tissot, I've always thought all the other watches makers you mentioned are extremely overated and over priced. And now, from this video and comment section I know the sellita movement is delicate garbage
@@AvidUTuber tossit is also garbage
Ok, well... "unrefined nature" when comparing a crap design to a good one is an odd way to refer to the latter
@@khrttartrahht4188 We own two cars. A Mercedes C350 Coupe and a Toyota Corolla. The Mercedes is much more luxurious and infinitely more refined. Will it last as long as the more unrefined Corolla? Nope. Two things can be true at the same time. Same with the movements I mentioned.
Swiss movements are more expensive because the Swiss think that they're more expensive and if the Japanese beat them at anything they'll just change the rules again.
yeah, there is nothing that japanese can't beat in quality, most of these companies just change the rules
Well said
Yup, Yamaha music instrument is another example. Superb quality 🎉
Well said
the WORLD... the people (suckers) that buy expensive watches think it has to be Swiss. If anything, Germany is thought of as the premier highly skilled manufacturer. Same reason Stradavarious violins still command a high price. No one can evolve.
Such a misleading description, you shouldn’t said Swiss vs Japanese movement over and over again when comparing a $30 vs $200 movement. Just say the model no. Or just use the equivalent tier movement from each origin like seiko 6r/9 series miyota vs sw200.
Exactly. It's like comparing an Audi A4 to a Honda Accord. One costs a bit more, and you get more for that premium.
The nh35 and 36 are made for entry level micro brands. You can spend around 100-250 on a watch with the nh35/36 and you're gonna get a super reliable and accurate watch.
I've got an Invicta pro diver with the nh35 and it keeps accurate time for a couple weeks. It's a fantastic watch that cost me 90 bucks brand new.
I think he addressed that issue in 1:37 fairly.
Europeans, as usual
Povo chato
Well TH-camrs usually don't know anything about the subject matter that they make videos on. A bunch of glorified salesman in the internet age
It's unfair to say this comparison shows the difference in quality or finishing between Swiss and Japanese movements because it compares Sellita's $200 top-grade movement with Seiko's $50 entry-level workhorse. What it really shows are the differences between price points. A more appropriate comparison would be the SW200 and the Seiko 6L35.
Hmm interesting. I just getting into watches and from the comment section , people are still saying the sellita is overpriced garbage
@@AvidUTuber I would never hesitate to buy a watch with a Sellita. In my experience, they're solid and easily equal to or better than the ETA movements the design copies. As to whether they're overpriced, that's a whole other conversation, but I wouldn't call them junk relative to any other movement around that price.
Yea the ne15 ne25 6r 6l etc series is to rival 2824-2 and sw200 and all its variant, but on the spec sw200 still end up with better spec overall and a lot cheaper than seiko
To be fair he's showing the expensive 2824 clone here, seagull make she st2130, and another company makes the pt5000, these are both Chinese clones of the 2824, as opposed to Swiss clones, they can be had for around 50ish dollars about the same as nh35, in my ill informed opinion the Chinese 2824s are just as good as the Swiss clones, they all will break from handwinding all the same💀 nh35 feels better wind in my opinion, my 2824 clone feels like in grinding gravel when I wind it
@@AvidUTuberthey are likely saying this because it is a mundane movement put in watches that cost in the 4 figures, some companies will make small mods to sw200s and call the movements "in house" and ask for more money, another reason people call it overpriced is bc of the focus on longer power reserves instead of smoother second hand sweep (the amount of times the second hand moves per second) the nh35 and miyota 8000 series have 3hz (1hz equates to 2 "tick" of the second hand per second, 3hz=6 beats per second) the sw200 is a "high beat" or a 4hz (8 ticks per second) due to the focus on power reserve, Swiss companies created the powermatic 80 (modified 2824 (2824 is what the sw200 is based off) that is 6hz instead of 8hz, but gets 30 hours more power reserve) these Swiss companies put the powermatic 80 in every cheap watch they have, and as a result the sw200/eta 2824 watches with 4hz moved more upmarket, meaning if you want a Swiss watch with 4hz sweep, you're basically going to have to pay about 1 thousand dollars (unless you buy micrbrands, that's another story) this is a reason why people say they are overpriced, seiko also did something similar with essentially moving their 4hz movements up to the 2000 dollar range.
In my engineering undergrad. I learned equipment that requires tight tolerances will not be as reliable or outlast equipment that does not need those tight tolerances.
Requirement of extremely high tolerances imply when Parts wear down, function is impeded thus needing service at a higher rate. This rises down time of use and increases cost
Incorrect
@@whereRbearsTeeth Oh my bad nevermind guys j was wrong thank you I was about to interview at Lockheed Martin glad you called my mistake
@@whereRbearsTeeth
LOL. its fact known by all watchmakers. These professionals are also far less impressed by expensive Swiss watches than the people who buy them.
True. Reminds me of the AK-47 vs M-16 comparison.
"Next up, let's compare a Bugatti Chiron and a Honda Civic to show why European cars are superior."
dude in Japanese how about a Bugatti vs a SKYLINE!!!! JAPANESE IS THE BEST 👌
One movement costs $50 (the Seiko) and the other $189 (the Sellita). You were right at the opening saying that it was not a fair comparison! I would not generalize this to say that all Japanese movements are inferior to Swiss at a given price point.
Agree. This is an informative video but I'd like to see a movement comparison with a Seiko choice in a similar price category as SW or ETA.
After spending more than 5000$ to tissot watches, with more than 750$ of it to service costs, I decided to learn a bit, how to do my own service and after understanding mechanism of std automatic watches I started to ask this question, "why those swiss watches are so expensive" At the end, a simple automatic watch, without any serious complication, can be serviced by any hobiest who has proper equipment and when you put it into pieces, you also clearly see that, there is no rocket science behind it. So what is the difference between, a swiss movement and for example, a japanese one. My short answer is there is no significant difference according to my experience, my japanese movements seems to be more robust. I am telling this, because I build my own watch, with miyota 8215 movement and throw in a box all my tissots. At the end, tissots were causing me trouble every 3-5 years and I had to spend each time 200-300$. But, my own production:)) is perfectly working, since more than 6 years and it keeps time good enough (with +10sec per day). In my opinion, such performance is quite acceptable for a 100$ watch. Long story short, use your money for something useful, rather than making rich swiss people richer:))
It looks like promo video to me
They are more superior to Swiss counterparts in the sense they don't break easily compared to their swiss counterparts and is more affordable.
They are though…
To make a fair comparison you should buy movements of the same price range. Next time try a Seiko 6R35, it would be more fair
There isn’t much difference between the 6R and 4R they are basically the same
The construction of the 6R is not much different from the 4R. 6R gets better material in main spring and the balance assembly and that's about it.
@@tilio9380I’ve also read the 6r is not as easily regulated as the 4r.
This isn't even a comparison. The title says "why an SW200 is more expensive than an NH35". It's precisely meant to illustrate the difference between price-points - NOT as an apples v. apples comparison. Could also have called it "Here's what you're getting if you upgrade to the next higher tier of commonly available movements".
@@Mikael5732 There the same to be fair
"while comparing the nh35 and sw200 isn't fair because they exist in a different price bracket this comparison should show you how Swiss and Japanese movements differ in their underlying design philosophy" - proceeds to not talk about design philosophy and instead unfairly comparing these 2 particular movements.
Only serve to fuel watch snobs.
He actually did explain the design philosophies. One is ease of manufacturer. One solid Bridge instead of several. One makes it easier manufacturer. One makes it easier to service. I would never service an NH35. At $30 for the movement...
@@GeneGirard007 Seiko does have movements made in the way the Sellita SW200 is made. it has nothing to do with design philosophy of the brand. they have different movements for different price points it's like looking at a Japanese K-car and saying the Japanese don't know how to build a luxury car.
Just to play Devils advocate here. I had two Oris watches, both with SW200's, both had to be returned under warranty for issues with their date wheels not adjusting, I've plenty of mechanical watches and only ever adjust the date way clear of midnight, but both had the same issue within six months of new purchase, they never felt particularly clean before or after the warranty work. On the other hand, I've plenty of Seiko's that have simply never given me any issues of any kind, in keeping or adjusting time or date. That said, I still prefer Swiss, but, genuine ETA is the way to go, both my Sellita experiences were poor. Oris's now sold, never going down that road again. Seiko's are just superb workhorses.
😂
I like the H-50 on my Hamilton Automatic which is still the ETA 2801-2, but they have reduced the beat rate to 21,600 VPH (3hz) and increased the size of the barrel to allow for a superior power reserve, quite smart and simple. Getting -1 second a day and sometimes spot on.
I have the khaki field king and it's just spot on
2:34 those 2 grams are "less of a burden of your wrist" ? ... are your hands that weak, to feel that 2 grams difference?
That's actually 1.7 grams difference, not 2 grams... your wrist is safe!
2:40 Even some Rolexes have plastic parts in theyr movements. and there are MANY watches that use plastic parts in theyr $100,000 watches or more... what are you talking about, my friend?
And why are you comparing an $50 movement vs an almost $200 one? why don't you compare a $200 japanese vs $200 swiss?
I'm not a fan of japanese or swiss, they're both good, but you're looking like you try too hard to say swiss is way better finished, when you're actually comparing a $50 vs $200 movement.
plus the weight is measured with the default stem and its plastic crown. The Seikos is by default bigger than the Miyotas, shortening the gap further
I have had many Seikos, all of them still working. I also recived as a gift, an Omega Speedmaster. It lays dead for repair, after 10 years of use. The cost of the repair is more than a new Seiko 5
I inherited a Rolex. It is beyond my means to service and repair.
My kids will be inheriting my custom built, worn and well loved NH35 watches. All the components except the movement should last through multiple life times and it will never be beyond their financial means to repair or service a priceless item.
Picked up a MaMaCoo 's watch as my first watch last month and I’m absolutely in love with it. Perfect size, looks elegant, very comfortable. Now my only problem is holding off from buying more watches so quickly!
I have numerous of both movements. The most problematic movement I own is the SELLITA SW200 (helicopter effect). Although I do admit the SW200 feels more refined compared to the feel of the NH series. That date changing on the NH35 an hour ahead is not a movement issue, but rather that hands were not set properly (closer to the midnight date change). In the end until SELLIA addresses the known issue with the bad part causing the rotor to spin out of control until something breaks, I'll take the NH35 all day over the SELLITA. As a matter of fact for my money I'll take the Miyota 9series over both the NH and Sellita.
9015 best
We do have to take into account that SW200 is basically a ETA2824, and that design is pretty dated and it comes with baggage, so to speak. NH35 went through quite a few evolutions and it is one heck of a workhorse.
On the date change, perhaps the video didn't do a good job describing it, but what I was trying to say is that it takes much longer for NH35 go from the start of date transition to the actual transition. On sw200 it's about half an hour in real time and on NH35 it's waaay longer.
9015 is a lovely movement
@@DIYWatchClub Unless you have to service it and realise that too many pinions have to get in to holes at once... Miyota movements are just like that.
@@DIYWatchClubInteresting but how come my ETA 2836 has an instantaneous day-days change? Shouldn’t the Sellita as well if it’s a clone of the 2824?
Wow, a $180 movement is better than a $30 one! I never would have been able to figure that out without this video.
My favorite watch channel without a doubt.I’m happy to spend my money on MAMACOO watches. I’ve never been let down by their products
Thank you for an excellent and very helpful presentation. I really enjoyed this high-quality video.
I don't own any premium automatic Swiss watches to compare it to, but I recently built a watch for the first time using the NH35 movement. I was quite rough with it at times when taking hands off and putting them on again etc, but nothing damaged it.
I set it to the exact second using my radio controlled Casio 5610 and for 4 or 5 days, it was as accurate to the second as the Casio. Can't moan at that.
Installing the second hand is often the most challenging part. Feel free to use our second hand tool-you might find it helpful! 😊
feel free to check this out th-cam.com/video/KgbY2VvD5u0/w-d-xo.html
MAMACOO！Every time you exhibit one of these watches I become super tempted to get one.
Good video. Couldn't agree more with the final sentences. A 24 jewel NH70 or NH35 is going to feel cheaper (winding, setting date, time etc) than a 28 jewel ETA movement and this ETA is going to feel cheaper than a in house 3135 Rolex Movement, or Patek, Audemars etc
Much appreciation and respect to all these watch companies.
Been watching your videos for a while now and was inspired to start a collection. Started with the MAMACOO, its specs for price and clean looks, now am looking for a dress watch to add.
Thumb-down. Inaccurate. Japanese movements are *_not_* , in-general, less expensive than Swiss movements. This ridiculous video is like comparing a Timex to a Jaeger LeCoultre then saying "this is why US movements are cheaper than Swiss movements". No they're not; you just *_chose_* a cheap movement. Try comparing a Jaeger LeCoultre to an RGM instead. Likewise, you could have chose to compare a $200 Swiss movement to a $200 Japanese movement; that might have been an interesting comparison.
I really respect you guys for introducing the sw200 to the kit lineup! I've always wanted to work with one.
Given the two main problems the sw200 faces (handwinding breaking the ratchet wheel, and the reversers getting stuck and causing helicopter rotor) I'd be really happy if you guys released a video showing how to swap out/service these specific parts to fix a broken sw200. Then I'd feel much more confident building and maintaining my own sw200 watch
That's a good idea for a video!
Reverser wheels are fairly straight forward if you choose the right lubricant. The ratchet wheel is easy to access and swap, and is also inexpensive. The only issue I can think of, is that you might have sheared off teeth as a result of aggressive handwinding. If these teeth have migrated elsewhere into the movement, you may want to consider a service.
Interestingly, ETA 2824 never had problems with ratchet wheel breakage, and stucking reversing wheels (only pivot wear in some service neglected movements). I even encountered second wheel (first after the barrel) teeth wear, ball bearing wear, in reversers - wear in holes for pawls. Just Sellita uses inferior metals, for exapmle, where ETA uses beryllium copper of Glucydur, Sellita uses plain brass, that's why reversers wear out fast and get sticky
@@dima343. I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen too many original ETA 2824. I know that some reversing wheel issues existed even with that movement, which were largely tied to lubrication issues. (helicopter rotor) It's quite possible that the Sellita ratchet wheel is inferior, and I've always wondered if that wheel was sacrificial by design.
@@dima343. Interesting, thanks for the info!
I have several 2824/2836/sw200 movements. I also have several NH35/7S26 movements. The ETA2824 is much easier to regulate and has much less positional variation in time accuracy than the Seiko movements. The 2824 and its clones are more satisfying to own and my oldest one at 15+ years without service still keeps great time. I also have two PT5000 Chinese clones of the 2824. They perform just as well as the ETA 2824’s in terms of accuracy and operation. We’ll see if they last as long. They are great value for the small premium over the NH35.
I have had more entry level Swiss Movements fail compared to my Japanese Movement watches, they each have advantages and disadvantages.
The Sellita is kind of a delicate movement. The good thing about being a 2824 clone is that literally every watchmaker knows how to service it.
@@DIYWatchClub And the better thing is that you never need a watchmaker for a Seiko NH34.
@@avronaut LOL! How true.
Outstanding video.I have to go with the AMZWATCH, especially with that green dial as my favorite
The NH35 might be more difficult to service, but would anyone service it instead of swapping it out for new NH35? Unless the customer insists on servicing the existing movement.
More difficult is a relative term. The SW-200 is easier to access. The NH35, especially on the side of the wheel train, is more like a guided tour. Even if you didn't know the movement, there is also one logical next step in the reassembly and assembly. The SW200 has some odd pitfalls, such as not removing the stem from the right position, which may force you to take parts of the front of the movement apart, just when you thought you had fully assembled a watch.
But in the end these differences are minute, if you know what you are doing. Also, if you are going for an inexpensive replacement route, you can buy ETA2824 clones for maybe $5 more than you'd pay for the NH35. These clones aren't pretty, but they are functional. In the end, you shouldn't have much of a service issue with any standard movement.
I would say from experience, any of the Seiko 7S/4R based movements are very easy and logical to service. it typically takes less time to service them than 2824 based movements.
I was thinking the same - exchange the movement for a new one is cheaper than any servicing
Why not chose a Miyota 9000 series? It would have been a fairer comparison.
Very nice video. Where do you guys usually buy Swiss movements?
I've recently began my obsession as a watch collector. And i must say- out of all the luxury brands I've been researching, for me the MAMACOO's watches are the most intriguing.
For me personally, I definitely choose NH35 for one reason only. If it broke, then cheaper is to buy a new one than trying to be repaired. In addition, a new one will work much longer than repaired one. For the last in nh35 and alike movements, magic fingers of automatic winding mechanism with additional oil layer are bomb proof.
Very interesting information. I have the NH36 from HK. it definitely has details that could improve, especially the date jump. But it's pretty precise.
I'm genuinely impressed with how close AMZWATCH were able to replicate every aspect of this very very goofy looking classic watch.
I love my Casio digital watch.
It beeps hourly and has an alarm functions which an expensive Rolex does not have. It's also more accurate than a Rolex watch. Unlike a Rolex watch which is quite cumbersome to set the time and the date, my Casio watch is very easy to set.
I hate wearing a heavy watch.
My casio watch is comparatively light. It does not weigh so much like a Rolex watch does. So it's really nice to wear it al the time.
It does not cost me a lot to own and more importantly to maintain my Casio watch.
The battery can last for up to 7 years.
It gives me peace of mind. Unlike a Rolex watch, it's less likely to get stolen and robbed.
Casio watch saves me a lot of time, energy, and money.
I don't have to visit a watch store every year.
Instead of giving my money to a watch store, I can use my money to invest in gold bars. I own gold bars and stocks.
👋 what kind of stocks? Medium entry level stocks or growth stocks 🤔 ✌️ from South Africa 🇿🇦
There's a time and place for both. Casio's great for when traveling or golfing. Rolex are great if you have the money for it and appreciate horology and luxury.
Dumbest comment I’ve read in quite some time
And most casio are quite ugly to me but for durability, accuracy, reliability and low cost it's hard to beat a G shock. But I still think they are plain plastic watches.
So great
one thing you didn't say: the NH35 got seiko magic lever automatic works, which is more efficient than traditionnal
What's that?
And considerably more reliable. I can't tell you how many reverser wheel sets I have replaced over 20 years of professional watchmaking. I can remember the singular 1969 6105 magic lever pawl I replaced because it was so "out of the ordinary". But truth be told, Seiko got the magic lever idea from the Swiss (JLC), and reinvisioned it with only 2 components.
I have both. From the user standpoint, SW200 rotor is sooooo lowd, so I prefer Seiko. If both are serviced and adjusted, Seiko wins, imho :-)
Agreed. I’ve had the helicoptering happen to two Orises, a Glycine, and a San Martin. All had the Sellita movement in them.
sellita in a San Martin? that's interesting, from the little research I did when I was considering them they only used NH movements and the occasional miyota 9000 series
i stand corrected, just looked it up, sw200 AND A WATCH for £385 is wild
An SW200 with a magic lever automatic system and beefed up keyless works would be a killer movement.
This is Like comparing Audi A8 with Camry. You gotta compare things in same weight class
Exactly.
The irony here is that the Camry is a lot more reliable.
Swiss movement usually have slightly smooth winding due to its tight manufacturing tolerance . If comparing the ETA 2892 /2824 with seiko 7s26 / 4r36 , will notice the ETA have smooth sweep as its 28,800 bph vs seiko 21,600 bph . seiko hi beat and spring drive is another level . For accuracy , nothing beats a quartz or digital watch . Just don't forget to change the battery . Always use a silver oxide ( SR ) , not alkaline ( LR ) and check its expiry date .
The winding feel and the date change have nothing to do with the tolerance of the parts. An instantaneous date change in a gradual date change use two totally different mechanisms. The winding feel depends on the gear ratios in the winding train and the amount of teeth on the gear contacting the click.
I have an ETA2824-2, an SW200-1b and 4R35b (= Seiko's own NH35).
They're all great and lasted longer than most things I've owned.
The cheaper 4R35b does seem to be more primitive, but also more robust.
In these times of planned obsolescence, these timepieces are almost literally timeless...
So let’s sum up, the 30$ movement is a much better quality/price choice that you can buy 6x before even reaching the price of 1 Swiss movement while the difference may not even be noticeable for 99.99% of the people. Thanks for this review !!
Very interesting video and really liked the comparisons! please compare more of these movements vs movement style videos!
I have a 4R35 that runs -3 seconds per day. So the movement can be a solid performer. Have several watches with 2824-2 in them, also solid performers.
bro is comparing a $200 movement to a $30 movement. You are clearly not making a point here. Try comparing 2 movement of similar price instead.
It's like comparing a Ferrari with a Toyota Corolla 😊
"Do not hold the movement like this"
Proceeds to hold the movement like this
IMO, there's a cultural difference (philosophical difference if you will) that goes into the engineering/ finishing of the product here.
Swiss movements have a focus on aesthetics and generally are made to be able to use as drop-in as-is without further decorations. If you want to decorate/ modify further, there are other Swiss companies that do modular add-ons. i.e. Targeting smaller capacity productions with a focus on more 'luxury' products.
Asian watch movement OEM suppliers focus more on a product that just works - if you want to customize it, go ahead but you're on your own. i.e. You can decorate it if you have the means to, but you could just use it as a lower cost movement in watches that target the mass market (doesn't require flourishes). Hence why you don't see Asian companies that specially offer aftermarket modular add-ons/ finishing services.
A better comparison might have been the Miyota 9 series (same beat rate) which does have slightly better finishing than a raw NH series movement.
Thank you for the thorough explanation! 😊 Let’s compare another movement with the 9 series movement next time.
I would rather have the larger movement as fragility increases as size decreases. Also, date change can be manipulated to wearers liking by installing the hands at 12 midnight just a few minutes after the date begins to change. Date will fully click past midnight but by then most wearers of the watch will be sound asleep so will not notice.
I have a Swiss watch that is broken for 3 years but the combination of digital and manual, Swiss and Japanese watches have their own advantages.
Just so I understand. the point of this was? Compare two entirely different market and price categories, and then point out key category differences showing the entry level doesnt have the same build approach? Then subtly declare the higher category far superior?
Talk about stacking the deck and gaming the outcome. You are definitely a high end marketer if that is measured by deception while maintaining the requisite caveats in the beginning (that they are different categories). You failed to mention DRAMATICALLY different categories AND that there are comparable comparisons.
If you already know all of this, then the vid wasn't meant for you. It was meant for people who are more towards the beginning of their learning curve. Nobody needs you to comment to try and show how much you know.
My favorite 2024 is the Prospex Limited Edition 1965 Recreation European Exclusive in Gradation Island Blue. The dial is stunning and the contrast when on a white strap is to die for. I will get my hands on one from AMZWATCH
Not particularly helpful for reasons so many commenters pointed out. I spoke briefly with a watchmaker once and he said the ETA movement is significantly better than the Sellita. Unfortunately, the conversation ended and I didn't have a chance to ask him why. Something that's always annoyed me is that the same Sellita movement will be used in watches with widely varying price points. Many brands are, I think, getting by on past glories, i.e., their name recognition. No matter. Soon I will be attending the American Watch and Clock Association course (Watch 100) and hope to have a lot of my questions answered.
3:43 the time the date change starts depends on hand alignment at time of casing up not the moment manufacturer 3:43
I perhaps didn't describe it clearly enough in the video. What I mean is, the NH takes longer to go from the start of date transition (when the date change mechanism is engaged and starts to transition) to the actual transition at midnight, the click, which both movements should do if cased well. The NH transition started way earlier than midnight, and it took that long to go from start to finish. So, no, it's not a matter of alignment of time.
Bro if one is more expensive, then better/more expensive materials and processing/tooling can be deployed to make it smaller, lighter, tapered etc. This may not be a swiss vs japan thing.
NH35 is actually okay as a daily beater and quite smooth winding in my pagani but my miyota from citizen is not so smooth.I think Seiko movement are smoother and I have not get a swiss watch yet as they are quite expensive
3:23 I guess it's more about hands positioning in NH35 watch. Also plastic part are ok to have, this might be a design idea to have some "fuse", a weakest part of the date mechanism to let users break only this element when adjusting date in a wrong way.
God!!! MAMACOO Who would have thought those gorgeous watches go for that low!!!
you should check a Swatch automatic movement, which still costs more then the Seiko one, to see how crap it is.
Does the same hold true for Grand Seiko?
Love your channel with so many stellar watches! For me the AMZWATCH’ watch is my favorite. Keep the videos coming. Thanks.
Now compare SW200, ETA 2824, and Chinese PT5000 for more definitive result
Disclaimer does nothing with ending conclusion like this. There are better japanese movement like Miyota 9015 and they will still be cheaper with better specification.
To be specfic with the price bracket. That Swiss movement shown is not just 2 or 3 times the cost but 5 to 10 times the cost of the Japanese movement.
Do you compare a regular steak with a kobebeef in your next vid?
The time that the date starts to change over is down to how you fit the hands, not the design of the movement.
Why didn't you guys use the Miyota 9000 series for comparison instead?
What's up with speaking what's written SW200 as "SLE200"(or S delete 200)?
I still prefer japanese movement as for accuracy, reliable, durable & affordable!Servicing at a affordable price range compare to swiss movement! I own a Swiss Army Victorinox Maverick Blue Automatic Model: 241706, and as for the hand winding part, it's troublesome to wind it back & fourth as to be careful for over winding! As for Japanese movement, I can wind it easily & smoothly till now! And no servicing for over 5yrs & still working as good so far! IMO!
A 9 series Miyota would be a better comparison.
Agreed. Similar price, and we love the 9015
I am a novice home watch enthusiast and tinkerer. For my needs I only buy NH series and 82XX watch movements. I would not buy a Selita movement for a hobby watch project. Its over kill and would not really improve the project enough to justify the expense of purchasing a Swiss watch movement. Maybe in the future, when I gain experience and knowledge I might purchase a SW200 movement if it is justified. For now, if you really want a high beat movement, why not try an ST2130 or a PT5000 movement? Cheaper and more practical for the home watch project.
Getting a Chinese 2824 clone is perfectly fine choice to start with. We once disassembled one, man it was so drenched in oil that the US army could invaded it. And its performance deteriorated quickly. But with proper servicing and oiling, it went back to okayish performance. It's an inexpensive choice to get to know the in and outs of a 2824. Not recommended for anything more.
@@DIYWatchClub Performance can vary. I have an ST2130 and also a pt5000 in two of my watches. They are both fine watches. I have heard of other people having issues with theirs but I have had good experience with mine. I have also heard that as time goes on they are improving the quality control on both these movements. People are reporting well oiled and beautifully regulated performance from their PT5000. Yes, I know, Swiss movements are better movements. In my view, I would not put a swiss movement into a hobby watch. Its over kill. If you buy a name brand watch then its ok. Hobby watches usually have very little residual value so you might as well use generic movements.
@@glenh4971 Good to hear that the Chinese is improving their quality control. This is going to benefit hobbyists so much.
Created by each philosophy
Designed by each philosophy
Explained by each philosophy
I love watches❤
Comparing entry level Japanese movement with entry level Swiss movement. Makes sense to me.
Would you please compare Japan movement and Swiss movement of the same price? I believe SEIKO has premium movement more than $50.
I think I nice and fair comparison here would be SW200 vs Miyota 9 series since both are 4hz movements.
This is a great video! could you do a Miyota movement too?
Would be cool if you could make a guide assembling a watch with the SW-200
We are releasing a SW200 kit as we speak!
Here you go! shop.diywatch.club/collections/diy-swiss-watch-kit?fbclid=IwAR13Zj0-mQCE3jHdV1W_Cihi1QlSoqz5YZ9UndfGppQhwfvPWHgs8zIRrHY
0:14 NH35 is not a Japanese movement. It's made by TMI, a company based in Hong Kong.
TMI is SEIKO group, this is a SEIKO movement manufactured outside of Japan. Like a Volkswagen made in Mexico, or a Mercedes made in USA. Nobody would say, that a VW or a Mercedes manufactured outside of Germany are not german cars... 🙂
日本の技術を楽しみたいのであれば、MADE IN JAPANを購入して下さい!
@@arpadbalazs3296tbf some of the Asian Mercedes in the commercial sector are actually Ssangyong.
But your point still stands.
NH35 is 100% a Japanese movement
I've never opened any of my Seiko watches, but I'm willing to bet that the 4R movements have a metal gear instead of the plastic gear that is in the NH ones.
They're the same movement so the 4R movements also have plastic gears
As soon as I saw the title of the video I said to my self: “Buckle up, the comments are gonna get spicey.” I was not disappointed. Brands and in this case movements have their fans and they can get prickly if you say there is something a bit better than what they have. I wish fandom wasn’t so annoying, but it is. Good video.
And spicy it did get.
IMO it always is a good thing to get a healthy discussion going. I'm having a blast reading all the first hand experience with both movements.
the salary in Switzerland (5000 chf) is not like in Japan, so that's why the price difference is also there
The griddy winding of the NH35 is due to smaller gears and overcomming the magic lever self winding system.
Subscribed! Can you PLEASE make a video on the new La Joux-Perret G100, D100 and L100 movements? The G100 is made to be a direct competitor to the 2824/SW200 due to the same dimensions. Not sure about the other ones. But they will, or already have appeared in some good value brands such as Frederique Constant and Edox, as well as many microbrands.
Thanks for the sub! That's some interesting movements for comparison. I'll see if I can track down any of those.
Currently, of my mechanical movement watches, (4) of the movements are Swiss and (3) are Japanese. Only one of the Swiss movements has been trouble-free. One was received new with a defective chronograph. Another was received new as COSC-certified, yet it lost 19 seconds per day. I had to return them both for repairs which took several weeks, and I feel like I wound up with used watches for new watch prices. The other was bought as vintage, and while I paid nearly $1k for its service (and waited for nearly half a year), the gears sometimes bind, and setting the time feels coarse. Meanwhile, all of the Japanese movements have been frustration-free. Therefore, my opinion is that Swiss movements are celebrated garbage, and I would choose a Japanese movement if there were a choice for a given watch of interest.
date wheel gears are plastic to remove the need for lubrication (they are considered self-lubricating) since they turn so slowly and have so few teeth. It is not to save money. That is what i have read anyway.
I recently bought three "European" brand watches and they all had NH35 movements
a well tunned $100 Miyota 9039 smokes 90% + of swiss movements in size, accuracy, durability, reliability.
Brilliantly explained video. Thankyou mate.
Definitely the most interesting & informative channel in TH-cam，and I am your fan！ I’ve been watching MAMACOO and buying them recently to complement my watch collection. Good video
🤔imho, still not explaining a factor of more than x10 for such automatic assembled movements
less than 20$ to 200$ ?
How about comparing a Ronda 515.24 with a NH34?
$200 (+/-) vs $50 (+/-) movement ...
I'll take the $50 (+/-) movement, please.
1) More Affordable. I'd only have to save up a couple months for it, not 8 or 9 months or longer.
2a) The $299 (+/-) movement "starts the date change 2 hours before the change, giving you 2 hours you cannot read the date."
2b) The $50 (+/-) movement "does the date change much closer to midnight, and is much snappier."
I prefer the more accurate time wise and snappier date change. I KNOW the date hasn't changed yet at 22:00 to 23:59, and it WILL change at 00:00.
I don't need advanced "warning" the date is going to change.
3) The $200 (+/-) movement "feels smother" than the $50(+/-) movement when winding ..." ummm ... both are an automatic SELF WINDING movement. WHY would you wind EITHER manually using the crown?!? 🤯😳
4) "The $200 (+/-) Swiss movement "has tighter tolerances and higher finishing" than the $50 (+/-) Japanese movement..."
At that price point, I would expect the more expensive movement to have a higher finish, and PROBABLY tighter tolerances than a movement that is in a price category/point 1/4 (+/-) that of the more expensive movements price category/point --- REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE MOVEMENTS ARE MADE!!!
I would GUESS a $200 (+/-) Japanese movement would be finished as good - IF NOT BETTER - than a $200 (+/-) Swiss or any other production movement at that price point.
As for your implied accusation "tighter tolerances are (always) better" ... I beg to differ.
For example: The Soviet/Russian AK (and SKS) series rifles have much LOOSER tolerances than the USA's M-16 based rifles. The venerable 1911 has looser tolerances than the current issue Baretta pistol.
In the field, the AK and 1911 are MUCH less likely to jamb WHEN (not "if") conditions are not "ideal".
During the Gulf War, men equipped with the then latest version of the M-16 put balloons (or condoms) over their muzzle to help keep sand out of the barrel and action. Sand (and in Vietnam, rain and mud) jammed the M-series rifles used by US troops. The US bolt action "sniper" rifles, and AK series rifles were unaffected by sand/mud/rain.
Because of tight tolerances, the first few issue versions of the Baretta were prone to cracked slides, among other problems. The Marine Corps and Special Forces went back to the time proven 1911 pistol. "18 shots of 9mm DON'T "bear" 8 shouts of .45 ACP WHEN THE 9MM CAN'T SHOOT!!!!
In a CLEAN office environment, tight tolerances in a watch is probably not an issue. Working a factory production line or a construction site ... they MAY be a problem.
Also, tight tolerances WILL require servicing and cleaning more often, since there is no room for the normal dirt and grime that gets into ANY watch movement, no mater how well it is quote-unquote) "sealed" over time.
This vid was a waste of time. IF you are going to "compare" a $200 (+/-) Swiss movement to a Japanese movement, COMPARE TO A $200 (+/-) JAPANESE MOVEMENT!!! 😡😡🤬 EVERYTHING ELSE IS IRRELEVANT!!!😡🤬
I saw and heard no relevant "design philosophy differences" in this vid.
That the Swiss movement has more time invested in its construction/manufacturing than a movement that sell for roughly 1/4 the price makes sense. LABOR COSTS GO UP THE LONGER IT TAKES TO MANUFACTURE ANYTHING!!! Spend an extra hour or three for a "fine" hand finish, the price will reflect that time.🙄
2:26 I suspect a non negligible part of that 2g difference lies in the huge difference in size between the temporary crowns that are not part of the movement at all. You should have removed the crowns to fairly compare the movements.
What about grand seiko
EXCELLENT watch!! Seiko is one of the world's best watches
Had both in many watches and Seiko Is way Better in every aspect. Is precise as mucho of the eta, charges Better, lasts twice as much and instead of servicing you can change It for the same/ half the price
I can’t believe I’ve never had a Sellita Movement, but I guess between the Swatch Group(Tissot & Blancpain), Rolex, and Revue Thommen I’ve never gotten one, all House or ETA
The plastic parts in the NH35 are a little bit flexible which helps with reliability
Hm, the date change closer to midnight is a very inaccurate statement - it doesn't depend on the movement itself, but on the assembly. You can place the hands at midnight in the exact moment of the date change, so it completes the change very close to 0:00. Yeah, the change on the Sellita might be snappier and take less time than on the Seiko, but it has nothing to do with the exact time of the date change. It could as well change at 3:00 if someone assembled the watch this way and it doesn't matter what movement is being used.
What about a Grand seiko Spring drive 9ra2?
The main difference is price and durability!🥰