Pyranha Kayaks Backband Upgrade "Tech Tip"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ต.ค. 2021
- Tools Needed Below
BlueWater Tubular Webbing 1 inch - amzn.to/47SLuBl
High Intensity Propane Torch Head - amzn.to/3YY6SAZ
"Disclaimer"
This is something I do on my personal kayaks. NOT a recommendation from the Manufacture so do this mod at your own risk of voiding your warranty if the seat bolts crack the boat.
Pyranha Kayaks Backband Upgrade "Tech Tip"
Thanks for Watching!
#pranhakayaks #whitewaterkayaking #kayakreviews - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
This stuff isn't common knowledge and you putting it out there for everyone is brilliant 👏
More outfitting tips please.
Great channel 👏
Hey thanks Trevor yeah I’m always thinking of this stuff this is similar to what dagger has done and Liquid logic
Great tip! Feel like I've got a brand new kayak! Thanks Wade!
Glad could help 😎
I was emailing w Josh at Pyranha, and asked him for his thoughts on this. Here’s his reply: "As far as that technique of backband retention goes, I don't think the webbing would be putting too much pressure on the bolts, we actually used to have a metal clip that attached there for the exact same purpose on some of our older outfitting at one point. Personally I am a fan of using webbing like this for a backband retainer as it's much more comfortable on the shoulder when carrying than the old metal pieces I just mentioned, and also easily replaceable and serviceable with stuff I generally have around the garage or in the back of my car. If you like the way it sets the backrest, I say go for it."
I heard ab this one a few years ago, but never pulled the trigger. I think I will now, thanks in part to Wade's detailed how-to (thank you!). Easy to go back to the seat location if I don't like it, and wouldn't even need to remove these loops since they aren't in the way of anything. A buddy recently did this to his Scorch and loves it. He added four loops, two on each side, to help distribute the load.
That’s good to hear buddy thanks for the feedback!
"We all like 8 inches" Wade Harrison 2021... This is going to be my senior quote
21cm if your outside the USA 🤗
@@WadeHarrison succeded! 🤗
@@martinakolackova3417 yes!
I finally got a Scorch for this season! I did the backband mod and it was an improvement, but it pinched my hips a little. I made another set of webbing straps based off of 7 rather than 8 inches to hold them closer to the seat sides. The bolt hole was placed at 2 inches rather than 2 1/2. Made a huge difference in comfort for me. Just don’t tighten the seat bolts until you get the ladder straps through the webbing loop as it’s a snug fit. I made a heel block as seen in another one of your videos as well. Thanks for all your help!
Yeah I’m sure some it will not fit perfectly but you seemed to had a good solution for it thanks for the feedback
I’m so glad you have overcome the tendency to use sarcasm while explaining things. 😂
So true
@@WadeHarrison Yeah, for a second I thought "Idiot!" about the microwave heating method, but the tongue test helped me catch on to the dry brand of humor. 8" is subtly funny too. I appreciate the tip, too. Fixing up an original Burn I got cheap. earned a like, at least.
This mod got me thinking. So after installing it, I thought the backband could still use additional support. My idea takes the place of those bungee cords, but with far more support. In fact, after doing this, you can get rid of those bungees, making storage in back more accessible. My addition consists of adding a similar web loop, but this one is located directly behind the seat attached to the rim of the cockpit. On my 2022 Scorch, it already had a hole pre-drilled on the cockpit rim, so I used it. I also used a SS flathead screw, to fit flush to the rim to prevent snagging sprayskirt. On my Scorch, I discovered there is another adjustable strap that ran from the backside of the backband to the seat. What purpose this strap had, is beyond me. So putting it to better use, I removed the strap from the seat and re-ran it through the new loop I just created. Cinching it, creates a really solid backband with little movement. If this strap is not on yours, you can easily make one with the same 1" webbing and with quick release buckle . I must say, this is an improvement on Wades mod, though adding both is supper supportive. Seeing a photo would make more sense, unfortunately I can't attach a photo here. If anyone wants to see a photo of this mod addition, send me a PM.
Great tip’s thanks for feedback
Thanks for this, The backband strap on my Ozone has managed to cut through the plastic between the 2 guide holes on the seat so this will be a good fix. Cheaper than £100 for new seat.
awesome glad I help save you some quid buddy
Great video. Just did the mod to my Machno. Can't wait to hit the water! Thanks!
Awesome
Works a treat - two of my old Pyranhas were supplied similar many years ago. One was a metal oval with perpendicular plate that went between seat and shell, the other was fabric loop. Makes the back rest far better
Yeah I remember those older clips
Great idea Wade, thanks. My Scorch will be upgraded soon.
Its easy and let me now what you think
whoaa nice! feeling these hip pads snug now and backband tight. Especially after getting seat higher and being skinny. Great tip
Yeah really definitely helps
Just did that upgrade to my Ripper according to your brilliant instructions. Took me a while but got there in the end…
Gonna see how she rides next week!
Thanks for this tutorial!
You’re welcome
how was it man?
Awesome! I did it and works perfectly! My outfitting improved a lot
Glad that worked out buddy
as a noob to kayaking, I've struggled with that backband riding so low. Thanks for the tip!
Yeah buddy let me know how it works
Thanks for the vid! Works like a charm!
Glad could help
I just finished doing this to both of our Fusions. Just sitting in them, my wife and I can tell a HUGE difference both the way the backband adjusts up better; as well as not having our hip pads falling down so low that we have to tug and pull to get them adjusted. This is a GREAT way to help get over the crappy outfitting. I love our Pyranha boats - just wish they had Dagger outfitting in them - this will help that.
Hey glad I could help out buddy
I’ve got a Machno from 2018 that has a metal hook for the back band to go through. Same spot you put the webbing. Came like that when I bought it new 🤷♂️. Works like a charm. In fact, I have never had any issues with the outfitting at all.
Yeah I think there was a lot of issues with those metal rings breaking mine broke on my burn 🔥 it was in a great spot though
Great idea. I still ran it through the seat and also used a grommet on the webbing to make it last. So, now there is strain relief on the plastic (which I had to weld because it cracked) and the routing is nicely tucked away and protected.
Yeah I feel Pyr has a great platform to make whatever work
Grommet addition / brilliant!
Brilliant Wade!!! Thanks
Thanks for watching PJ
Great fix! Thanks. Installed on my machno and ozone. Really feels snug. I used orange webbing. Made it easy to see the hole when assembling
For sure
Nice! I did something similar. I just took some webbing and made a loop through the two holes. I then rotated the loop so the water knot is out of the way. I did the same as you on the hip pad placement. either way you get way more support to your lower back which helps in getting those good boofs. Your videos are super helpful.
Cheers.
Nice and yeah there's more than one way to accomplish the upgrade I have seen a few after posting this and thanks for watching Scott
super! I had a similar idea with webbing but I was toying with idea of making an extra hole in the seat and attach the loop through it. your way is much better. the seat on pyranha is definitely low. I did not make the modification yet, now I will probably follow your method. Thanks!
I think that would work pretty much anything that helps lift it up
I picked up a Scorch last weekend and took it out on the river. The backband was indeed too low. I brought it home and did this right away. What a difference!
glad it helped.
Good Tip! And then drill a hole in the front of that ratchet strap and run a zip tie in it. So when you loosen your ratchets and lean back, it don't come out and spend 10 minutes trying to get it to go back in.
Yeah I have heard paddlers doing that with either a small screw or a rope I never really had problems with them coming out and putting them back in is easy but I get why some do that
Good information.
I went and tied 1" webbing through the two holes that the back band went through before. Then threaded the band through the webbing, as someone here mentioned.
It works very well. With moving the seat all the way forward and fixing the back band the Scorch handles like a dream.
Thanks to Wade and all the people here for the conversation. I love my Scorch now!!
Hey awesome thanks for the feedback
works better all forward the seat?
Nice, Wade. If I can offer input so as to not put an uneven load between the two bolts because of webbing on one and none on the other, I would suggest crossing the ends over making a bow. Put a tail section through each bolt to ensure that you have even pressure throughout the whole plate. This will help with leaking and gosh forbid, cracking.
Otherwise, this kind of retrofit should be common knowledge. I love it.
Great feedback! I can see that loading on the bolt I have been using this set up on several different models and never had a issue but can totally see it..
And just like any mod that anyone does with their boat do it at your own risk. I figured the pull pressure was the reason why Pyranha doesn’t do something like this. At dagger we went through the rim…
@@WadeHarrison we're all better through feedback. This channel has been invaluable for so many, Wade. I hope that it rewards you for your hard work!
@@WadeHarrison I've used the this method on many older non ratchet old school boats..which I have converted to ratchets..I've never had any cracking..But understand its possible!..I used a thicker additional bungee to higher my backband on my Ozone with an additional plastic shim on the rear of the backband to stiffen it up a little..it works well..but will try the loop method to enhance the feel further..Pity Pyranha couldn't sort this out during manufactering/design..as there must be some strain on the plastic sides of the seat pillar where its threaded through !!
You truly are a mad scientist
Well have done some things that worked and some that was just dumb
This worked great for me. In both my ripper and delphin
Awesome glad could help
Thanks wade! Did this to my ripper. i find this to provide more back support under the hip pads personally i tried both. The extra hip tightness was super nice though .
Awesome glad I could help
Thank you Wade! Machno will be a lot better with this upgrade!
Yeah let me know how it works for you
@@WadeHarrison smooth process. Used the rasp from a tire plug kit it that worked great. Feels MUCH better…only thing is it didn’t make me paddle as well as you🤣
Thanks for the video Wade I just got a Ozone and was going to replace the back-band but this mod should do the trick!! Thanks bro!!
I actually tried a different backband to see how it affects it and soon realized the backband is not the real issue it was the way it was to low and going through that seat
@@WadeHarrison cool thanks again is little mod is going to save me some cash now!!!
Awesome Wade!
Small mods make a big difference
Nice one wade! Ill be upgrading my ripper2 and scorch mediums with this. Just wish pyranha would sort there outfitting out. Was contemplating replacing the backbands for dagger ones as they higher in the middle but this hack looks like its gonna sort the low band problem..💪cheers dude 🤙
I tried putting the dagger ones in and it fit weird
Long story, I tried moving the seat to the forward position on my large Scorch to allow the back band to come forward and up more, at the same time scooting as back in the seat as far as I could go, and it helped on the Watauga, but after watching this, tried your trick, and think it will work a lot better. I will keep my seat in the forward position for now for Tallulah to see how I like that. One day I may get to be a real kayaker like you, but it may take another 50 years of paddling.
Moving this seat is no easy task You are for sure a real kayaker buddy think we have met on the river several times?
Def gonna have to try this on my new ripper. Thanks for the tip.
It helps let me know what you think
Cool, thank you. I've got a Scorch Large and the backband is definitely the weak link in the outfitting. Otherwise I love this incredible boat.
Glad I could help out Buddy
...going to do it today 🤔...thanks! 🤗
Awesome let me know how it works out
I put Nomad thigh hooks in my Super Ego, they went in surprisingly easy but I need to do this to run the forward ratchets. Thanks Wade
oh yeah that a game changer to a older Dagger Boat!
I had a roll practice session and the dude let me use a scorch (my boat doesn't allow for rolling lol) and my first complaint was the back rest... and he acted like the backrest wasn't a problem, and that I shouldn't be relying on it. I didn't understand it because I can't just willfully hold my body up in that position (I have very unflexible legs) my body wants to lay back. With no back support, the discomfort was constant. I thought I was just going to have to deal with that. Forcing my body up at all times. But now I know I'm not the crazy one. Thanks.
A good backband is a must to transfer that energy to the kayak
I can confirm the microwave does get the screwdriver hot enough. Thanks for the hot tip !
I had to check the heat on my tongue, it was hot, as soon as I heal up I'll clean up the mess from the exploded microwave :D
HahHah oh yeah
Well that’s odd I said put it in the microwave never said turn it on 😉
I just got done doing this on my Scorch X and it feels like it's going to make a huge difference.
That’s great to hear dude with a boat thanks for the feedback
Thank you Wade... just got my first Pyranha and the backrest does seem low
I hate low sitting backbands
great tip about using the microwave to heat and tongue to check temperature
glad you listen Josh I said that to see if anyone even paid attention 😂 thanks for watching buddy
Thanks looks like a good tip. I am a newbie and struggling with comfort with the band being too low.. Its a bit rubbish though that Pyranha don't either build it like that or send out a retrofit kit. The band should be high enough!
Its ok the way it is but I usually tweak every kayak somewhat to fit me better.
Actually, a lot of people like it low. In my ripper it is quit low and I like it that way. Did take getting used to thought.
@@danielgelinas7141 fair enough but to me it really is too low. Even with this adjustment which I made and has improved things when compared with my other two boats. It seems to me this could be thought about in design and a loop added giving the option. Maybe I am just to old and need a stronger core. Anyway thanks to the OP I followed the guide and it was a fairly simple change.
This is mandatory. Tighten the back band strap as well with a knot. You won’t run out of plastic buckle strap.
Yup love the knot 🪢
Nice, I use a loop of bungee to do a very similar thing.
Actually that might work as well
I like it and very clever
Thanks PAL I can’t take credit I have seen this on several boats over the years
Wade, regarding H2O’s comment on loading … have you had any issues where cracks have developed around those seat bolts? I had that happen on my first machno and would be concerned about the additional loading on the rim around the two boats. Love the idea and agree 100% on the band riding too low with out the fix. Plan to do it on my new machno. Thanks
No I never have had any issues but that’s not to say it would not happen
I did see where some actually went back to the old method of drilling hole and put a webbing piece and a hook through the seat and guide the backband through that
Will be doing this to my L Ripper stat. Thanks for the Tip to microwave the screwdriver!
Yeah I think more paddlers should customize their boats to them. like with adding foam and moving things around. Pyranha does make it very customizable with adjustable seats thigh hooks a lot of extra foam...
Heating metal in your microwave is actually very dangerous to you and your microwave. It can permanently damage your microwave and can catch fire in extreme cases.
Wade, great advice otherwise!
@@cordellhollingsworth1817 that is very true thank you for pointing that out now I see you paid attention
🤩 your comments gets pinned to the top also buddy
Thanks for the feedback Cordell
@@cordellhollingsworth1817 Is it still ok to check the screwdriver temp with your tongue?
Just did this mod on my ripper and its made such a big difference! Its also worth noting that the dagger backband is almost a direct drop in retrofit into the pyranha outfitting and is a killer upgrade when placed up higher like this. Youll need to either use the shock cord or cut some slits for daggers webbing straps, but thats well worth doing for the added comfort and better plastic on the ratchet area
do you have any concerns with the differential in pressure on the front and back bolts now stressing the pastic? I thought about adding a piece to the front hole just so its symetrical.
Yes i helped on the dagger outfitting a lot when working there and agreed this does put more stress on the bolt that’s why I say it might cause issues but all mine have been just fine but who knows if it might crack that area later so good luck
I tried the Microwave method. My mom is Pissed! ;)
😂 I was joking and hope you didn’t
I did the same thing to my 9r as that d rings are no good either works well 👍👍
Awesome
Cut holes through your hip pads and feed the back band through it...it helps keep the pads higher and tighter against your body
That’s interesting I feel can just run behind them and works fine
Have you had any issue with the friction fraying the webbing of either the ratchet webbing or loop webbing? I think I'm going to through some sections of plastic tubing over the web loops. Had one of the original burn's backbands snap (was when they had some lightweight cordage on them instead of webbing (first gen) as I tuned and burned through the slot on Gorilla, mad for an interesting send.
I have not yet that don't mean it won't ever
My 9R came with Stout knee braces and the back band straps went thru the top of the hip pads. I was really happy with that since it tightened the hip pads really good when tightening the back band. I could even roll with my knees out.
For some reason it seems Pyranha abandoned that design quite fast.
What u've done here actually looks quite close to that version. 👍🏼
Some of the older boats have a ring that attaches to the seat but think that had a problem with it breaking so they stopped using that
@@WadeHarrison yeah, I've seen that but this is different, the strap literally goes thru the back of the hip pad. No ring, not attached to the seat
@@adphreak123 oh wow that’s different
Great hack, Wade. I wonder if that trick would help with the stock LL backbands...
It already what LL does.
I did something similar to my Machno... no extra parts. just cut a slit in the top back part of seat to run strap through :) . Only concern I have is eventual pressure breaking the seat, but i don't think there really is much pressure.?
I agree the pressure from where that’s Pulling from I think a lot of people are overestimated it this set up has been used it a lot of kayaks and yeah I know some seat bolts break but it’s not from the backband it’s from improper fitting of the seats
The original backband routing isn't working, but I would be careful with the upgrade proposed. Seen some boats with similar repair crack near the bolts due to load not distributed evenly.
Seat carries almost all your weight so these forces ain't small.
Pyranha used to have proper metal guides in their Connect outfit. Early Stout versions came out without the holes in the seat so the bands were badly pinching your hips (the sit was held in place only by the rubber bands in the back). Apparently they had a little idea how that supposed to work.
Yes, I noted that in the description. I have done this on every pyranha I have paddled and no issues that doesn't mean can't happen. I have a feeling they are working on something new soon.
Interesting video, but shopuld you put a metal screwdriver in the microwave oven?
Agreed and I was obviously joking i should have said I was joking in hindsight I will pin your comment so hopefully anyone with a microwave will see it
Just did this to my M scorch so much better. I love the hull design but honestly my old RPM was easier to outfit than my new Pyranha lol.
awesome glad could help and nice freewheeling buddy!
need one of these for the liquidlogic badass as back band runs too low on those too
It’s Actually what they already use now the same set up the problem that LL has is they use the seat pad to wrap around the backband and hold it in place and i hated how low that made it feel in the LL boats always felt like was going to fall out
yup… maybe i can make a velcro extender for the seat pad so i can free up the backband a bit. you’ve inspired me. thanks.
Did the same in my Jed years ago to make the backband better
And how it go apparently alit of people think it will pull the seat bolts through the boat I think it’s possible but I have never had a issue like that with this setup
Genius. OK I will see if I can get you some credit with the M.I.T mechanical engineering department. You should be able to score a scholarship. The bad news is that kayaking season out of Boston is about 3 weeks in the summer.
Hahah I will take that MIT cred and come to the southeast everything is going
About to send you a video on how I did the same thing. I had a different approach but arrived at the same results. Can’t stand a low riding backband…
Got it and looked very interesting to drill the rim like that
Do you think you could do this in a liquid logic boat? I find they often sit low as well.
They have this already set up just the straps that hold it make it sit low
Do you find that the hip pad ends up riding up as you tighten the back band? Ive had mine slipping up until the band on the hip pad slips into the small gap between the seat and the cockpit.
Yes I tried actually putting duct tape on mine to keep from moving around but just gave up and excepted it because never been a real problem
doing mods on the seat are a great idea if you have too do a warranty change it back before taking pictures they void his warranty due too back band mod
This guys right here 👆🏻knows what’s up 😉
@@WadeHarrison that is a great mod, done it myself yeah they where real bitiches too one of my video kayaker about his mod too lift the backhand would not warranty crack would not even give him a discount shell he did take pic with out changing mod they blamed the mod on crack sucked for him. hope alls been well you got your ride fixed see you on the rio
What padding did you use for the bottom of the seat?
I usually don't run a seat pad but pyranha comes with a small seat pad to add to it if wanted.
✨ Just did this ✨ Will test at Tallulah this weekend! You think this will work on my Loki?
Yes is that what your paddling there
@@WadeHarrison Yes, Scorch for me at Tallulah! 🔥 It's my PFD 🔥 And the back band feels better now in the Scorch!
Why the he)) didn't I think about that? Genious 😉
If you change it let me know how it works out
Did something similar, the buckle in the back band I cut off and used the same clips they you for hip pads, part of the restore I do on old boats , while replacing the bolts to buttonheads and stainless rubber washers. Wade is a pyro ;-), keep showing tricks of the trade.
awesome I think we all try some custom work on boats at some point
I've been just running it completely out of the seat loop and straight into the thigh braces. Feels super comfortable now. any issues that you could see of doing it that way? Basically the same as your setup just no loops, not going through the tip pad seat area
I like the sounds of that one also just seems like it would rub a lot on the sides like that and move around a lot but if it’s working for you awesome
I'm buying a Scorch shortly, I love the boat but hate the outfitting. I can't figure out why, for such an expensive boat,
they don't do this at the factory.
With some tweaking it works really good did you see my outfitting video
How wide is the webbing Wade??
It’s 1” tube webbing
I put a dagger backband in all my pyranha boats. I like that it has much less flex top to bottom
Yeah I seen that 12r you had with one and did try a dagger one in there also and it is a stiffer backband it was still sitting to low for my liking so decided to try this
"we all like 8 inches"
do we?
lol
21cm seems to work well also depending on what you like?
If you jump in the microwave with the screwdriver then it won’t cool off while you’re working on it.
Definitely get that on video 🫣
Now do one for a Liquid Logic "Crack" band!
What do you mean? Crack band?
@@WadeHarrison that's where it ends up on me-just above my crack!
LL definitely had some issues with the seats not fitting properly and they also use this big plastic band with zero flex I’m very familiar with that set up they used a C type metal bracket then change over to webbing I think the real reason they break is the big plastic backband strap and one seat fits everything approach
First
Hey 🐸
“Put a metal screwdriver in your microwave”
😂
Or, you could just buy a Dagger boat :< )
😂 yeah dagger backband and outfitting in general is next level but dam boats like all the scorchs and ripper are also next level
Probably not a great idea to try to heat a screwdriver in a microwave…
No it is not 🤪
Put it in your microwave 🤣
I was totally joking and I have got few people mad because saying you should do that
Buy a Pyranha $1600 usd, spend a lifetime fixing Pyranha outfitting - priceless.
To be Fair I think the outfitting works fine without this upgrade. Me and 1000s of others have been paddling Pyranha boats for years without this. I have noted in my reviews about how I wanted their backbands to get tighter so just wanted to give a cheap and quick solution to that.
It is just a tip to help with getting the backband tighter and more comfortable. Some actually don't want a higher sitting backband or a super tight one so its really personal preference...
DON'T PUT A SCREWDRIVER IN THE MICROWAVE.
You caught that nice 😉 Your comment goes right to the Top sNpeR
@@WadeHarrison XD
Ah come on!