That deck tech is a really nice design solution to fixed trees. Makes me want to try that game! Limited choices is the best outcome over full range or full random.
Plenty of insights into the decisions of the development of Old World. As a board gamer, I like how they used concepts from board games, too. Old World is the actual favourite historical 4X game of mine, the last item in the row of Civ 2, 3, 4, Imperialism 1 and 2. I hope Soren and his team will do more of what they do in Mohawk Games. Either future expensions for OW or other games, I'm with them.
The first game that I played where I found nested tooltips was Tyranny and it was a gamechanger UI-wise. At least in my eyes they were perfected in Crusader Kings 3.
@axioms ofdominion Dreadfire is PoE2. Those tooltips were already in PoE1 which was released in 2015. I found this dev log you talk about and it was published on youtube 5 months after PoE was released.
@axioms ofdominion I even installed PoE and Tyranny to check if I remember it correctly and have to admit that technically you were right. In PoE and even Tyranny tooltips were definitely not infinite nested but more like 1 level nested with good highlighted keywords. I still consider them as similar thing (or certain milestone) because I remember when I first played CK3 and I saw infinite tooltips there I said to myself "wow, they have that awesome tooltips from PoE".
@axioms ofdominion It wouldn't be the first time two people came up with the same or similar solution independently. There are many examples of that in science or even in evolution.
Honestly, one of the best ways to get rid of classical 4x problems mentioned here is, for example, get rid of players' population control. Population behaves as they seem fit and you can only either try to make them do another thing or adapt to their behav.
Interesting idea! I'm curious how populations would make decisions. Predictably or randomly? And how much control would you give to the player to control them, if any?
@@libiroli mostly predictably. I see as such, populations have their own decision lists. For example, [feudal] landlords strive to own the most profitable, in base value, pieces of land, and as much serving population, as possible. Also they strive to keep their lands integral, so they also would like to keep the area in the general vicinity to his land owned too, awhile some X value of that is satisfied. To balance the cold rationality, some random shall be added - maybe that pop will try to buy a guild, even if it gives him no profit. About control. I suppose, if the game is civ-like, the amount of control over pops shall be locked behind governments and technologies. F.e. in antiquity, you really can't control anyone that much, unless you decide to see all POPs as "slaves", so you will gain an ability to control them. But they will be *very* angry with that. Even trying to tax them will be very hard to pass, unless you gain some aid in this - the idea of legitimity, or maybe, if you please your priest POPs, so they divine you or your rule. Yeah, they produce nothing really valuable, consume and steal, but the commoners listen to'em On the other side, even liberal capitalist country shall give way more mechanics to interact with POPs. Take taxes, impose import tariffs, draft and mobilize, purchase stocks in companies that POPs organise, purchase resources and labour and use them to make projects, edict laws via parliamentary system etc etc etc
Interesting mention of FrontierVille, it was the first Zynga game to have an energy system, yet that came back to FarmVille. Wait, TreasureIsle actually was first with the energy system.
I started playing this game after downloading through a pirate site few days ago. I absolutely love it. Its not just a 4x strategy game, its a roleplaying game. I love it so much I plan to buy the game + DLC from steam so that they can have my money
I love this game to death, but one thing I think it could really use more focus on is the religion system. For how significant religion was during that time period religion in Old World feels very lackluster right now sadly
I love the game, I only regret it is not SciFi with planets and houses and mechs and Landstraad. I'd love to see my daughter dutchess become a Bene Gesserit and influence Scythian culture.
Compared to CIV you can call the Ai Ai. Old World is much better than Civ 5 or 6. I really enjoy playing Old Word especially in Multiplayer with my friend. And the Ai is demanding what is cool! 5 Stars to this game!
They should had invite someone from paradox interactive about that topic. You know....someone who has REAL knowledge in that genre. CIV is still too much of a joke to call it 4x. #Fact
yikes lol, not really sure paradox are 4x they are more grand strategy. and paradox might learn a thing or two about putting out a finished product from soren johnson. all their products start pretty bad at launch
This game is seriously under-rated.
You probably only make the mistake "epic exclusive" once in a lifetime...
@@thomasl.4081? It's on steam right now and has been since release lol
Thanks again for another peerless game Soren! My favourite 4X since Civ IV :)
So many smart decisions in design of this game. A real pleasure to play!
That deck tech is a really nice design solution to fixed trees. Makes me want to try that game!
Limited choices is the best outcome over full range or full random.
It's really well polished at this point. I enjoy it a lot (and the AI is a good challenge!).
Plenty of insights into the decisions of the development of Old World. As a board gamer, I like how they used concepts from board games, too.
Old World is the actual favourite historical 4X game of mine, the last item in the row of Civ 2, 3, 4, Imperialism 1 and 2.
I hope Soren and his team will do more of what they do in Mohawk Games. Either future expensions for OW or other games, I'm with them.
The first game that I played where I found nested tooltips was Tyranny and it was a gamechanger UI-wise. At least in my eyes they were perfected in Crusader Kings 3.
Completely agree. Same experience too iirc
@axioms ofdominion Nested tooltips were already in Pillars of Eternity which is 4 older than At The Gates.
@axioms ofdominion Dreadfire is PoE2. Those tooltips were already in PoE1 which was released in 2015. I found this dev log you talk about and it was published on youtube 5 months after PoE was released.
@axioms ofdominion I even installed PoE and Tyranny to check if I remember it correctly and have to admit that technically you were right. In PoE and even Tyranny tooltips were definitely not infinite nested but more like 1 level nested with good highlighted keywords. I still consider them as similar thing (or certain milestone) because I remember when I first played CK3 and I saw infinite tooltips there I said to myself "wow, they have that awesome tooltips from PoE".
@axioms ofdominion It wouldn't be the first time two people came up with the same or similar solution independently. There are many examples of that in science or even in evolution.
Fantastic game with so many smart decisions to make a great experience.
This is an amazing game. If you haven't tried it, you should. I have some playthroughs on my channel, too
Honestly, one of the best ways to get rid of classical 4x problems mentioned here is, for example, get rid of players' population control. Population behaves as they seem fit and you can only either try to make them do another thing or adapt to their behav.
Interesting idea! I'm curious how populations would make decisions. Predictably or randomly? And how much control would you give to the player to control them, if any?
@@libiroli mostly predictably. I see as such, populations have their own decision lists. For example, [feudal] landlords strive to own the most profitable, in base value, pieces of land, and as much serving population, as possible. Also they strive to keep their lands integral, so they also would like to keep the area in the general vicinity to his land owned too, awhile some X value of that is satisfied. To balance the cold rationality, some random shall be added - maybe that pop will try to buy a guild, even if it gives him no profit.
About control. I suppose, if the game is civ-like, the amount of control over pops shall be locked behind governments and technologies. F.e. in antiquity, you really can't control anyone that much, unless you decide to see all POPs as "slaves", so you will gain an ability to control them. But they will be *very* angry with that. Even trying to tax them will be very hard to pass, unless you gain some aid in this - the idea of legitimity, or maybe, if you please your priest POPs, so they divine you or your rule. Yeah, they produce nothing really valuable, consume and steal, but the commoners listen to'em
On the other side, even liberal capitalist country shall give way more mechanics to interact with POPs. Take taxes, impose import tariffs, draft and mobilize, purchase stocks in companies that POPs organise, purchase resources and labour and use them to make projects, edict laws via parliamentary system etc etc etc
This was _water sip_ great. Thank _sip_ you Soren!
Very cool talk
You sold me your game on ai no bonuses slide :)
Interesting mention of FrontierVille, it was the first Zynga game to have an energy system, yet that came back to FarmVille. Wait, TreasureIsle actually was first with the energy system.
I started playing this game after downloading through a pirate site few days ago. I absolutely love it. Its not just a 4x strategy game, its a roleplaying game. I love it so much I plan to buy the game + DLC from steam so that they can have my money
I love this game to death, but one thing I think it could really use more focus on is the religion system. For how significant religion was during that time period religion in Old World feels very lackluster right now sadly
Check out the latest DLC that just released -- it's all about religion!
@@alcaras ive played it and they just added some narrative events here and there, imho religion deserves its own mechanics
I love the game, I only regret it is not SciFi with planets and houses and mechs and Landstraad.
I'd love to see my daughter dutchess become a Bene Gesserit and influence Scythian culture.
The order system is brilliant. The narrative events are far too basic and not at all immersive or particularly fun.
Soren often used the thematical sensibleness as a counter argument.
Meanwhile he depicted the progress of technology as a deck-building card game..
i like where characters die. it just more systematic gameplay.
Compared to CIV you can call the Ai Ai. Old World is much better than Civ 5 or 6. I really enjoy playing Old Word especially in Multiplayer with my friend. And the Ai is demanding what is cool! 5 Stars to this game!
Dude smacks his lips EVERY TIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH
I bought it. But knowing the tech tree was so limited, it just made me want to play Civ V, which I did.
Ugh, V is the worst game in the franchise. Being forced to play tall is so lame and the happiness death spiral is terrible game design.
@@jyutzler No one's forcing you to play tall.
@@jansenart0 No, but the game is so biased against playing wide due to the happiness mechanic that it is a distinction without a difference.
@@jyutzler What civ you playin?
@@jyutzler Also, modless G&K is great but Vox Populae makes it premium. Feels like Civ IV.v.
They should had invite someone from paradox interactive about that topic. You know....someone who has REAL knowledge in that genre. CIV is still too much of a joke to call it 4x. #Fact
yikes lol, not really sure paradox are 4x they are more grand strategy. and paradox might learn a thing or two about putting out a finished product from soren johnson. all their products start pretty bad at launch