I remember learning how to play polyrhythms years ago, when my teacher told me to learn Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu, specifically for that reason. I just couldn't get it right, even after a couple of weeks. It clicked for me when I looked at it "mathematically" (instead of hoping I'd get it right eventually on feeling alone), like you explained in the vid. After that point, polyrhythms came rather easily, and every piece I've learned that features polyrhythms since then hasn't been too hard. It's like you said, you start recognizing these types of patterns and something in your brain just clicks. I don't think I've ever learned how to do polyrhythms with one hand though, seems like a great exercise.
Interesting! I liked your idea, but wondered why everyone doesn't know this, so I decided to do some sleuthing. Apparently a few years ago someone put this on a couple of Wikipedia pages (they said that part actually is a polyrhythm, which is a bit different from your claim), and then other people needed to explain why this is not polyrhythmic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3APolyrhythm#Carol_of_the_Bells_reference_in_article It boils down to rhythmic emphasis. Carol of the Bells doesn't have an on-beat for every other beat like a 2-beat rhythm would (e.g., it should be "HARK hark THE bells" from the 2's on-beat, but the 3/4 timing signature makes it "HARK hark the bells"). So if you use this trick, keep that in mind. :)
Hey, great video. I've only messed with the against 4 when learning triplets but you and Adam Neely are inspiring me to go farther. I'll post this on my studio page on Facebook for my teachers and students. Peace.
*Flashback to 11 against 6 in Chopin* NEVER AGAIN Also I first learned polyrhythm in Debussy’s Arabasque 2 against 3 - I basically just played the C octave with 1 hand doing eighths and the other doing triplets - though your exercise is really useful I find myself just randomly tapping 2 against 3 or 3 against 4 on the table whenever I’m bored - musician things lol
Never again? Then begin with Chop.25.2 and after that read CPE Bach on how you actually do fx 11 against 6 (3 x 2) by 6 against 3 and 5 against next three by dragging (the melody) until they meet on next bar. But then again, yes, some people do it more effortless than others.
@@jokerhahahahaha5884 fourth ballade has it (when after the "canon variation" it goes "nocturnesque"). But in my opinion rubato works there quite well and it even might be appropriate for romantic music not to play the exact polyrhythm there (and after that there is simply 3 against 2), and more difficult place is when the second theme returns - there is 3 against 2 polyrhythm, BUT you need to highlight the melody in the right hand, notes of which come mostly on second and third notes of the triplets)
Superb lesson, Nahre, really enjoyed this one. Here’s how I learned to commit to memory four against three, a.k.a. half note triplets: LH taps quarter notes, 1 - 2 - 3 - 4. For the RH, first subdivide each beat into three by counting: 1-trip-let, 2-trip-let, 3-trip-let, 4-trip-let. While keeping LH going, RH taps at ONE (trip) (let), (2) TRIP (let), (3) (trip) LET, (4) (trip)(let). Hope this is clear. Thank you for spotlighting polyrhythms!
I just use the oldest trick in the book: "EXPRESSIVE RUBATO". No way will I ever play 7 against 11 convincingly. Luckily stuff like that never comes up in classical piano music unless Rubato is heavily implied
'never comes up in classical piano music'? It's there very often. Beethoven Sonata 32, Chopin: Fantaisie Impromptu, whole sections 3 against 4, Chopin Nocturne, Op. 15, No. 3, several measures continuously 5 against 2. Also, many shorter phrases have polyrhythms in Liszt, Rachmaninov, Beethoven, Chopin (Nocturne op. 9 no. 1 has 11 over 6, and later 7 over 6). Debussy also made a lot of use of (less complex) polyrhythms like in his Arabesque. A more extreme and famous example is seven against eight (Samuel Barber, Excursion, No. 3, first 11 measures). Or maybe more well known for ensemble 'Le Marteau sans maître' by Pierre Boulez (continuously changing, complex polyrhythms and strange changing measures). While there's a lot you can play without them, or with only 3 over 2 or 3 over 4,which are very common, you can encounter almost any combination and often in quite famous classical pieces.
@@Misteribel I'm sorry you took the comment so literally. I am aware it does occur. I've played a lot of pieces that requires poly rhythms. It just doesn't often occur in standard repertoire the way I described: as in horribly indivisible ratios that are to be played in strict tempo. Usually baroque + classical only goes as far as 4 on 3. Romantic can go quite crazy (the nocturne you've mentioned is one I've played) but usually it's only for short passages or rubato is expected so it's not as stressful. But sometimes as you say, you'll get horrible stuff like 8 on 7 which mainly appears in modern/contemporary period music and can often require absolutely strict tempo. I've not personally played as much contemporary stuff as classical or romantic so I've personally not seen it much, but I'm VERY well aware it's there
@@dfkfgjfg I wasn't sure you were joking or not ;p, but it made me curious so I did some research and learned a thing or two along the way. Indeed, most music I play only ever gets to 2:3 or 4:3, and the music that has 7 or 13 over regular just bedazzles me and I typically just leave it be ;). Today I listened to a guy at my piano teacher's place effortlessly playing Rachmaninov pieces with polyrhythms in it (9:16 and the like) which prompted me to try it out myself, which landed me here ;) Thanks for the response, and that Nocturne is great! Awesome you play it!
This is an insane exercise, I love it! It would be especially useful for rhythmic minimalism I think. :) Thanks Nahre. I will definitely start playing around with this
Polyrhythms can give me years of enjoyment. It's so easy to improvise with them and it sounds magical right away. It's like a hidden world that I didn't know that it existed. I've internalised 2:3 quite well (with two hands only, not with one hand), have been playing with it for about a year now, and will go to 3:4 and 3:5 after that. The great advantage is that you can practice it everywhere, away from the keyboard, with the only risk of driving your family mad 😂
You know, you always release your videos at the best possible times. I was just looking into Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu and the aspect of polyrhythms was too much for me at the time. Thank you so much, I think I'll take another into that and see if I can apply these exercises until the concept clicks
I haven't played drums or percussion in 13 years, but as soon as you started playing polys, i thought of drumming way hard. Thanks for that! I feel like thats how percussionists get their patterns down, minus tones per se.
This is something I've done during lectures, silently against the table. Although I've done it in a way that you cycle through all your fingers in both hands. Starting with pinky and ending with thumb, then repeating the cycle. For example, 3:2 polyrhythm has a LCM of 6, meaning that a person with 10 fingers would need five cycles to end on both pinkies. I've tried on the piano as well (using mainly the whole-tone scale) and it works quite well.
The "Complete Rhythm Trainer" app not has a polyrhythm section and it's included in the free version and shows the decomposition exactly like you've done with the pen and paper. I've found if I don't practice polyrhythms for a while I lose the knack and have to start riding the bike again. Great video.
Hi Nahre, I love your soothing videos. Sometimes I follow like in 30% maybe, but this time there's something for me. It's still very challenging yet reachable. I've managed to play some simple forms of polirythms and your video encouraged me to keep on practicing on them.
I studied a little bit of Polyrhythms in college at one time. Not very big in Pop music, but Rock, Metal and even Classical music use this play style often. Alot of Avant-Garde electronic musicians use this technique for even drum patterns as well as clashing lead rhythms for an evolving mess of sound, to which you lose yourself in the unsyncornization (if that's even a word).
I use sentences as tools to get a feel for the different rhythms, where if you tap your hands to the natural rhythm of the speech it makes the polyrhythm. For example: 3:2 = "Ding, fries are done" 4:3 = "Pass the goddamn mustard"
Love this video... I study and even used to include it on my music differently... BUT THIS VIDEO has give MORE INFORMATION / KNOWLEDGE than certainty will be added to my notes, which means this video helped out...
Always makes my day and makes me smile to see you have a new video up. Playing congas in City Park in NYC with my friends and strangers had been a big part of my life when I was young. Watching you play really helps. The hand visuals that is. Although it was sad not to see your smile, and I miss seeing Bobby running past. lol Thanks. A great instructional outlook for students on poly rhythms. One thing that helped me in playing congas was to look at it as one rhythm with 2 hands as opposed to separate rhythms in each hand. Till next time.
A piece that I learned recently adds an extra dimension to this problem -- it is three against five, but both the triplet groups and the quintuplet groups regularly have one of the notes replaced by a rest with an extra quaver followed by a note with the same extra quaver. (It's Scriabin's famous Poem in F-sharp major op. 32 #1) So as I see it, this means you now have to double the Least Common Multiple. And with your outward cycles method, play each note (of each hand) in pairs of two instead of singly. Or with the written method, write each number in pairs of two.
I do like the piano. You have very pretty hands which I wish I had. I am a life long musician and keyboard player and a friend directed me to your channel. I LOVED your video. You are Brilliant. Thank you!!
I can't really do harder than 3 against 4, but I figured that one out by drawing it on a paper like a rhythm game timeline. The note and numbers method seems quite good so I recommend people to try it for 3 against 4 too. Try with [1]23 1[2]3 12[3] 123 and [1]23[4] 12[3]4 1[2]34. I think it helps focusing on one of the beats and then figuring out where to add the "auxiliary" beats, and the difficulty might depend on which way you do it. Also, if you are using a table and two hands, try making different type of sound with one of the hand, for example tap with finger one hand and tap with fingernail with the other.
That would be funny though, if you picked up everything from the tutorials and then you find a piano in public, you decide to play it, you sound amazing and someone asks you how long you've been playing piano for and you can tell them "since five minutes ago."
One day a few years ago, I tried to make scales less boring, and somehow I decided to do eighth-note scales with my left hand (up and down two octaves), and triplet-scales with my right hand (up and down three octaves). Then I switched, starting with the hands two octaves apart so they don't collide at the top. Very basic 2:3 rhythm, but it helped with my fluidity and presented a slight challenge with cycling the thumbs at different points than I was accustomed to. I'd forgotten I used to do that until watching this. I think I'll get back to it, maybe trying some other polyrhythms too.
A method I like for counting 7 with the fingers is: instead of just going up from the thumb and doing a scale, you can go from the thumb to the pinky and then come back the thumb skipping just the index. It would be something like |1-2-3-4-5-4-3| It's the same idea as the method you used, then you can figure out the rythm with your fingers which is really nice haha.
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Nice, I'm gonna give a try on the polyrythmics + articulaciones exercise (it sounded pretty cool, like it could be a leit motif for a piece). The first time I've tried polyrythmics back in school was 3 against 4, I write two rows of numbers from 1 to 12 (LCM) and add a mark on the first one groups of 3 for the right hand and in the second groups of 4 for the left hand, then counted to twelve and hit the marked beats. I think Adam's method is an easier one, specially on bigger numbers.
i just draw these fraction things we had at school way back in elementary. (like if u wanna do 2:3 u draw 2 bars one on top of the other and have the top one for the right hand and the bottom for the left (just like the staffs on sheet music) then i split the top one into 2 (a line down the middle) and the bottom one into 3 (its a little difficult to do it evenly its ok if u mess it up a lil bit)) to start, u have to treat the line before the fraction divisions (the one that connects the two bars together) as the beginning (so u start with both hands) and then follow the rhythm on the bars (at the end, dont play both hands, instead, restart at the beginning) 3:2 is (RL)(R)(L)(R) 2:3 is (RL)(L)(R)(L) 4:3 is (RL)(R)(L)(R)(L)(R) AND SO ON
Maybe this helps if you're just beginning (with polyrhythms)... My father has been studying Rach's Prelude Op. 23 Nr. 4 for what seems like ages now, but since he quit music school years ago, he's basically been learning it on his own, and as a result, there isn't really anyone around to correct his mistakes. These mistakes have always bothered me (especially since it's so much more difficult to "un-learn" mistakes if you know what I mean), specifically because his polyrhythm was completely off. So what I did was take a sheet with empty staves and just took one bar (bar 19 from the prelude, if I remember correctly) + the first notes/chords from the next bar (left and right hand) because it's more convenient to write that way (it completes one cycle), and stretched it over the entire length of the blank sheet. In other words, the prelude has 6 vs 9 polyrhythm (which is basically the same as 2 vs 3), which means if the page is around 18 cm long or so, that means the right hand (9 notes + 1 from the next bar = 10 notes) starts at 0 cm and ends with a note at 18 cm, and then you draw the remaining 8 notes inbetween that space (18/9 = 2 cm inbetween each note). You do the same for the left hand (6 notes + 1 from the next bar), again you start at 0 cm and end with a note at 18 cm and draw the rest inbetween. What you'll notice is that - in the case of 2 vs 3 or 6 vs 9 - the left hand notes are played either at the exact same time as the right hand notes, or exactly 50% inbetween two right hand notes. This is why 2 vs 3 is the easiest to learn out of all polyrhythms (in the case of 4 vs 5, it changes from 25% - 50% - 75% with each note). But this method works for all types of polyrhythms. Again, all you have to do is take 1 bar (+ 1 note from the next), divide your staff by however many notes there are left and right, and practice that line very slowly, and you'll "easily" master polyrhythms. This method worked for my dad and since then, he's finally "mastered" the 6 vs 9 bars from Rach's 4th Prelude, lol. Sorry for the long comment, and hopefully I made some sense.
With pen and paper practice, I prefer counting in my mind the numbers and using m foot to hit every number, I find it more useful than pronouncing the numbers and easier when you speed up the exercise :)
Gonna have to do Hanon again in polyrythms--or, not. But this great description was the first time I've taken seriously how much I like polyrythms. Now I want to review Neely and Bruce videos that went over my head (or fingers) the first time.
Panting* i literally got here because i was binge watching Rick Beato. So tracing back my last two days... Couperin’s Kyrie of mass of the convents to Wanamaker organ to modal chord to rick beato to Plini to blues chord progression to Mellotron keyboard and now to Nahre. You can just imagine how overwhelming it feels...then now looking at more recommended videos!
I first encountered 2 against 3 when practicing Debussy's Arabesque 1. Gosh that took me some time to figure out but once you've got it it's not that hard anymore. Adam's video was also the one that helped me understand polyrhythms fundamentally. David Bruce's video on the Indian Konnakol is also a brilliant one! PS: I found counting in Mandarin a lot easier than in English cuz all the numbers are in single syllables in Mandarin. Not sure if it's also true in Korean~
There's a wonderful video on youtube of Miles Okazaki going through a whole number of polyrhythms on his guitar. It's basically the same method, but really cool to see in all its variations.
For me, polyrhythms are easy enough when they are short like the 3:8 polyrhythm in Nocturne in Eb, op. 9 no. 2 but as the polyrhythms get longer and longer, my hands want to sync up and the polyrhythm degrades, eventually reaching a point where my right and left hand are playing square rhythms relative to each other. So, playing Fantasie Impromptu is very hard, even though I know how to play the 3:4 polyrhythm that is prevalent in the A section of the piece(the section in C# minor), because either my left hand goes from triplets to sixteenths or my right hand goes from sixteenths to triplets(usually, my left hand tries to catch up with my right hand). They want to sync up, so forcing them to not sync up becomes quite the challenge, as if the arpeggios and scales themselves aren't enough of a challenge. Compared to the constant 3:4 in the A section of the Fantasie Impromptu, the quiet but powerful feel of Beethoven's Presto Agitato is a piece of cake. I'm not at all saying that Beethoven's Presto Agitato is easy. I'm just saying that it is way easier for me than Fantasie Impromptu
I think if I am not wrong I got this this time... With your pen paper method of course. So u mean if I need to play 2-3 rythm .. lets play metronome at whatever pace. Now right hand play 6 notes with 3 fingers with metronome. Now if I play left with 2 fingers at beat pos 1 & 4 repeatdly.. Then its your 2 by 3 polyrythm ... Right? 😀 So basically I am playing 4 right hand notes for any two left hand consequitive notes. So we say we playing 2nd and 3rd beat of right hand at 1/3rd and 2/3rd position.. right? Then back to synchronising both hand at 100 percent position i.e 4th beat of right and 2nd beat of left. So we back again at start of loop. Thanks! Main thing is right hand should play evenly with metro. Or half of metro whatever. All I need to do is to now play left at 1st and 4th position or same finger of right again if they just 3 finger roll. This is good and easy way to fit 2 into 3 then other way round where u try fit 3 into 2. 😀
I neglected to add the ending bars. I'm curious as to your opinion on Barenboims' more serious(lack of a better word) approach to that piece as opposed to Lasistas' more whimsical take on same?
@@NahreSol 😊I read on your Bio that you were at the University of Costa Rica, I don't know how much time ago, but I hope I'll be able to see you if you come back... I hope you come back!
I always internalize polyrhythms as waltz variations; anytime I hear odd numbered subdivisions, I just feel that rhythm as a waltz of varying speed. By the way, these exercises are evocative of both Dave Brubeck and Mike Ratledge. I think you would enjoy both players.
Hey Nahre! Amazing video! Could you please make a video that could guide me on how i could make a living out of music and piano when i finish highschool?
Hello Nahre, hope you are well! I know I am three years late to the party but I am curious! Wouldn't the 5 against 7 in the end of your video be considered a Polymeter rather than a Polyrythm? I think of it as extending over 7 bars of 5. Because to my understanding a Polyrhythm would be 7 notes laid into the duration of 5 notes, meeting again on the beginning of each bar. In any case , very entertaining video! Thank you for sharing your passion. I finally have a piano again after a few years of a semi voluntary guitar exodus (Don't shun me fellow guitarists, Its a wonderful instrument), and your content is super fun and motivating. Wishing you all the best!
"Here's a question for you: in the time it takes the metronome to play 7 notes, how can I play 5? In other words, a 7:5 polyrhythm? Let's find out...." (adapted from the "7:11 Polyrhythms" video)
@@wyattstevens8574 Ah well now its making sense, the whole paper represents one bar of 7 against 5 and she is counting the subdivisions between the main beats. This is really interesting then because if we look at the subdivisions as the main beats then there's a 7 bar long polymeter within one bar of a 7 against 5 polyrhythm. I mean it was not that obvious for me to wrap my head around but now its so logical. Genius!
Wow this is great. Can you maybe go over arpeggio chords and how to practice and make them sound good? I have really small hands and I'm having trouble with Godowsky's 53 studies on the Chopin etudes: No 5 in D flat major Op 10 No 3
![POLYRHYTHM- Learn and MASTER 3:4 and 4:3 [MUSIC THEORY - RHYTHM- COUNTING]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c1pejTgLuhA/mqdefault.jpg)
![How to Play THREE Against FOUR Rhythms on the Piano [Feat. Chopin Fantasie Impromptu]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gNnKFnqQjKs/mqdefault.jpg)
Nahre Sol: "Polyrythme made extremely easy"
Me: _Laughs in Chopin_
Lmao the exact reason I'm here
Just wing it with some rubato.
*debussy joins the conversation
Scriabin laughs at all of the above.
Nahre: you get the point.
Me: . . . yup (suspiciously long sip of tea).
Is it a nice cup of tea?
A very slowed down version of 5. xD
Can you even clap your hands?
Wow, somebody in a YT comment section trying to be clever; never seen that before.
@@InXLsisDeo I was like you're kidding right?
That's a cute piano.
gg nice play
I thought it kind of scary actually
@@natasgabel1672 Learn a little Japanese ;)
@@benevans8250 He was making a counter joke, kowai in japanese can mean scary.
@@Samuel-zo2rc Gosh darn, I need to learn more than a little Japanese if I'm gonna play these games.
I remember learning how to play polyrhythms years ago, when my teacher told me to learn Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu, specifically for that reason. I just couldn't get it right, even after a couple of weeks. It clicked for me when I looked at it "mathematically" (instead of hoping I'd get it right eventually on feeling alone), like you explained in the vid. After that point, polyrhythms came rather easily, and every piece I've learned that features polyrhythms since then hasn't been too hard. It's like you said, you start recognizing these types of patterns and something in your brain just clicks. I don't think I've ever learned how to do polyrhythms with one hand though, seems like a great exercise.
I know that feeling!! Thanks for the comment :)
Everyone started polyrthymn with Fantaisie Impromptue or nocturne no20
Ko4la it’s funny cause I think nearly everyone did I still remember and look back at those runs and polyrhythms on no20
I learnt polyrhythm with Liszt's Consolation no.3.
@@PassionPno Yeah this one work to but people usually learn it after nocturne no20 or Fantaisie impromptu
I find a good trick for 2 vs 3 is that put together it makes the rhythm to carol of the bells
Joe K Oh my god thank you
yeah that’s how i always thought of it
Interesting! I liked your idea, but wondered why everyone doesn't know this, so I decided to do some sleuthing.
Apparently a few years ago someone put this on a couple of Wikipedia pages (they said that part actually is a polyrhythm, which is a bit different from your claim), and then other people needed to explain why this is not polyrhythmic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3APolyrhythm#Carol_of_the_Bells_reference_in_article
It boils down to rhythmic emphasis. Carol of the Bells doesn't have an on-beat for every other beat like a 2-beat rhythm would (e.g., it should be "HARK hark THE bells" from the 2's on-beat, but the 3/4 timing signature makes it "HARK hark the bells"). So if you use this trick, keep that in mind. :)
So true
This does wonders for my students.
So cool, thank you!
Have you ever thought about writing a piano book with these exercises in it? I think it would be super cool for learning pianists!
Hey, great video. I've only messed with the against 4 when learning triplets but you and Adam Neely are inspiring me to go farther. I'll post this on my studio page on Facebook for my teachers and students. Peace.
Thank you!!
Farter
"Farther" like 7:11?
*Flashback to 11 against 6 in Chopin*
NEVER AGAIN
Also I first learned polyrhythm in Debussy’s Arabasque 2 against 3 - I basically just played the C octave with 1 hand doing eighths and the other doing triplets - though your exercise is really useful
I find myself just randomly tapping 2 against 3 or 3 against 4 on the table whenever I’m bored -
musician things lol
Never again? Then begin with Chop.25.2 and after that read CPE Bach on how you actually do fx 11 against 6 (3 x 2) by 6 against 3 and 5 against next three by dragging (the melody) until they meet on next bar.
But then again, yes, some people do it more effortless than others.
Which Chopin piece has the 11 against 6 polyrhythm
@@jokerhahahahaha5884 fourth ballade has it (when after the "canon variation" it goes "nocturnesque"). But in my opinion rubato works there quite well and it even might be appropriate for romantic music not to play the exact polyrhythm there (and after that there is simply 3 against 2), and more difficult place is when the second theme returns - there is 3 against 2 polyrhythm, BUT you need to highlight the melody in the right hand, notes of which come mostly on second and third notes of the triplets)
@@jokerhahahahaha5884Nocturne op9 no1 a few times
I'm trying to learn Scriabin etude op 8 no 4 and the 5/4 polyrhythm is killing me
Superb lesson, Nahre, really enjoyed this one. Here’s how I learned to commit to memory four against three, a.k.a. half note triplets: LH taps quarter notes, 1 - 2 - 3 - 4. For the RH, first subdivide each beat into three by counting: 1-trip-let, 2-trip-let, 3-trip-let, 4-trip-let. While keeping LH going, RH taps at ONE (trip) (let), (2) TRIP (let), (3) (trip) LET, (4) (trip)(let). Hope this is clear. Thank you for spotlighting polyrhythms!
Love it! Polyrhythms rule. Thanks! I was half expecting "Pass the goddamn butter" for 3 against 4. 😀
Haha 😂
I just use the oldest trick in the book: "EXPRESSIVE RUBATO". No way will I ever play 7 against 11 convincingly. Luckily stuff like that never comes up in classical piano music unless Rubato is heavily implied
Haha classic
Define "rubato". Rubato is borrowing time, not altering it. Sometimes you just got to attack it head-on.
'never comes up in classical piano music'? It's there very often. Beethoven Sonata 32, Chopin: Fantaisie Impromptu, whole sections 3 against 4, Chopin Nocturne, Op. 15, No. 3, several measures continuously 5 against 2. Also, many shorter phrases have polyrhythms in Liszt, Rachmaninov, Beethoven, Chopin (Nocturne op. 9 no. 1 has 11 over 6, and later 7 over 6). Debussy also made a lot of use of (less complex) polyrhythms like in his Arabesque.
A more extreme and famous example is seven against eight (Samuel Barber, Excursion, No. 3, first 11 measures). Or maybe more well known for ensemble 'Le Marteau sans maître' by Pierre Boulez (continuously changing, complex polyrhythms and strange changing measures).
While there's a lot you can play without them, or with only 3 over 2 or 3 over 4,which are very common, you can encounter almost any combination and often in quite famous classical pieces.
@@Misteribel I'm sorry you took the comment so literally. I am aware it does occur. I've played a lot of pieces that requires poly rhythms. It just doesn't often occur in standard repertoire the way I described: as in horribly indivisible ratios that are to be played in strict tempo. Usually baroque + classical only goes as far as 4 on 3. Romantic can go quite crazy (the nocturne you've mentioned is one I've played) but usually it's only for short passages or rubato is expected so it's not as stressful. But sometimes as you say, you'll get horrible stuff like 8 on 7 which mainly appears in modern/contemporary period music and can often require absolutely strict tempo. I've not personally played as much contemporary stuff as classical or romantic so I've personally not seen it much, but I'm VERY well aware it's there
@@dfkfgjfg I wasn't sure you were joking or not ;p, but it made me curious so I did some research and learned a thing or two along the way. Indeed, most music I play only ever gets to 2:3 or 4:3, and the music that has 7 or 13 over regular just bedazzles me and I typically just leave it be ;). Today I listened to a guy at my piano teacher's place effortlessly playing Rachmaninov pieces with polyrhythms in it (9:16 and the like) which prompted me to try it out myself, which landed me here ;)
Thanks for the response, and that Nocturne is great! Awesome you play it!
i kinda love that when you turned on the metronome it was already at 180.
I do 2 against 3 by saying "nice cuppa tea" ^~^
My very good British friend taught me that, it's fitting!
I teach my students saying “not dif-fi-cult”
This is the first time there is one exercice that i can do on your channel :D Thank you !
Awesome!! Thank you
This is an insane exercise, I love it! It would be especially useful for rhythmic minimalism I think. :)
Thanks Nahre. I will definitely start playing around with this
Thank you!! So glad!!
Polyrhythms can give me years of enjoyment. It's so easy to improvise with them and it sounds magical right away. It's like a hidden world that I didn't know that it existed.
I've internalised 2:3 quite well (with two hands only, not with one hand), have been playing with it for about a year now, and will go to 3:4 and 3:5 after that.
The great advantage is that you can practice it everywhere, away from the keyboard, with the only risk of driving your family mad 😂
I wish you could hop on a train, get off in 1981 and show me this brilliant tutorial back then! This is great!
Great, just learned to do left vs right hand, now I have to do polyrythms with one hand... 😀
😂 Yes! Haha
I think I need an extra hand for some of these! And a drumset! Sounds so cool, thanks for posting!
Thank you!!
Yes. If you are a didgeridoo player
You know, you always release your videos at the best possible times. I was just looking into Chopin's Fantaisie Impromptu and the aspect of polyrhythms was too much for me at the time.
Thank you so much, I think I'll take another into that and see if I can apply these exercises until the concept clicks
1:15 Perfect interval to play a 2:3 polyrhythm, reminded me that the frequency ratio of a perfect fifth is a 3:2
I like how you show the relationship between polyrhythm and polymeter by creating one out of the other.
Sounds cool. Makes my head explode trying to do it.
When you realize she’s the 16 levels of piano on wired lady
Yeah.. I found her channel because of this video...
By the way, 16 leves of happy birthday... Mindblowing..!
What
I haven't played drums or percussion in 13 years, but as soon as you started playing polys, i thought of drumming way hard. Thanks for that! I feel like thats how percussionists get their patterns down, minus tones per se.
This is something I've done during lectures, silently against the table. Although I've done it in a way that you cycle through all your fingers in both hands. Starting with pinky and ending with thumb, then repeating the cycle. For example, 3:2 polyrhythm has a LCM of 6, meaning that a person with 10 fingers would need five cycles to end on both pinkies. I've tried on the piano as well (using mainly the whole-tone scale) and it works quite well.
The "Complete Rhythm Trainer" app not has a polyrhythm section and it's included in the free version and shows the decomposition exactly like you've done with the pen and paper.
I've found if I don't practice polyrhythms for a while I lose the knack and have to start riding the bike again. Great video.
Excellent lesson! If someone wants to practice finger independence and polyrythms, this is the way to go
Hi Nahre, I love your soothing videos. Sometimes I follow like in 30% maybe, but this time there's something for me. It's still very challenging yet reachable. I've managed to play some simple forms of polirythms and your video encouraged me to keep on practicing on them.
Been doing this alot, with 3 over 4. Magical poly rhythmic melodies
I studied a little bit of Polyrhythms in college at one time. Not very big in Pop music, but Rock, Metal and even Classical music use this play style often. Alot of Avant-Garde electronic musicians use this technique for even drum patterns as well as clashing lead rhythms for an evolving mess of sound, to which you lose yourself in the unsyncornization (if that's even a word).
I can confirm that ! I often compose with polyrythms, my main genre is ambient, but i definitely use it for drums too in other genres 🙂
I use sentences as tools to get a feel for the different rhythms, where if you tap your hands to the natural rhythm of the speech it makes the polyrhythm.
For example:
3:2 = "Ding, fries are done"
4:3 = "Pass the goddamn mustard"
4:3= what-do-you-want-to-do
With-this-god-damn-mus-tard
Love this video... I study and even used to include it on my music differently... BUT THIS VIDEO has give MORE INFORMATION / KNOWLEDGE than certainty will be added to my notes, which means this video helped out...
Always makes my day and makes me smile to see you have a new video up. Playing congas in City Park in NYC with my friends and strangers had been a big part of my life when I was young. Watching you play really helps. The hand visuals that is. Although it was sad not to see your smile, and I miss seeing Bobby running past. lol Thanks. A great instructional outlook for students on poly rhythms. One thing that helped me in playing congas was to look at it as one rhythm with 2 hands as opposed to separate rhythms in each hand. Till next time.
A piece that I learned recently adds an extra dimension to this problem -- it is three against five, but both the triplet groups and the quintuplet groups regularly have one of the notes replaced by a rest with an extra quaver followed by a note with the same extra quaver. (It's Scriabin's famous Poem in F-sharp major op. 32 #1) So as I see it, this means you now have to double the Least Common Multiple. And with your outward cycles method, play each note (of each hand) in pairs of two instead of singly. Or with the written method, write each number in pairs of two.
I do like the piano. You have very pretty hands which I wish I had. I am a life long musician and keyboard player and a friend directed me to your channel. I LOVED your video. You are Brilliant. Thank you!!
1:37 2 ag 3
1:46 3 ag 4
I can't really do harder than 3 against 4, but I figured that one out by drawing it on a paper like a rhythm game timeline. The note and numbers method seems quite good so I recommend people to try it for 3 against 4 too. Try with [1]23 1[2]3 12[3] 123 and [1]23[4] 12[3]4 1[2]34. I think it helps focusing on one of the beats and then figuring out where to add the "auxiliary" beats, and the difficulty might depend on which way you do it. Also, if you are using a table and two hands, try making different type of sound with one of the hand, for example tap with finger one hand and tap with fingernail with the other.
Omg being a pianist that first approach you gave is sooooooo helpful for me thank you so much
I have been watching piano lessons for some time, but I don't even have a piano.XD
That would be funny though, if you picked up everything from the tutorials and then you find a piano in public, you decide to play it, you sound amazing and someone asks you how long you've been playing piano for and you can tell them "since five minutes ago."
One day a few years ago, I tried to make scales less boring, and somehow I decided to do eighth-note scales with my left hand (up and down two octaves), and triplet-scales with my right hand (up and down three octaves). Then I switched, starting with the hands two octaves apart so they don't collide at the top. Very basic 2:3 rhythm, but it helped with my fluidity and presented a slight challenge with cycling the thumbs at different points than I was accustomed to. I'd forgotten I used to do that until watching this. I think I'll get back to it, maybe trying some other polyrhythms too.
The way you explained here is more common sensical. Thanks👍👍
A method I like for counting 7 with the fingers is: instead of just going up from the thumb and doing a scale, you can go from the thumb to the pinky and then come back the thumb skipping just the index. It would be something like |1-2-3-4-5-4-3|
It's the same idea as the method you used, then you can figure out the rythm with your fingers which is really nice haha.
Nice, I'm gonna give a try on the polyrythmics + articulaciones exercise (it sounded pretty cool, like it could be a leit motif for a piece). The first time I've tried polyrythmics back in school was 3 against 4, I write two rows of numbers from 1 to 12 (LCM) and add a mark on the first one groups of 3 for the right hand and in the second groups of 4 for the left hand, then counted to twelve and hit the marked beats. I think Adam's method is an easier one, specially on bigger numbers.
i just draw these fraction things we had at school way back in elementary. (like if u wanna do 2:3 u draw 2 bars one on top of the other and have the top one for the right hand and the bottom for the left (just like the staffs on sheet music) then i split the top one into 2 (a line down the middle) and the bottom one into 3 (its a little difficult to do it evenly its ok if u mess it up a lil bit)) to start, u have to treat the line before the fraction divisions (the one that connects the two bars together) as the beginning (so u start with both hands) and then follow the rhythm on the bars (at the end, dont play both hands, instead, restart at the beginning) 3:2 is (RL)(R)(L)(R) 2:3 is (RL)(L)(R)(L) 4:3 is (RL)(R)(L)(R)(L)(R) AND SO ON
I don't know about EXTREMELY easy. But the methods you demonstrated did at least make polyrhythms comprehensible to me. So thank you!!
Haha, fair! Thank you!!
Maybe this helps if you're just beginning (with polyrhythms)... My father has been studying Rach's Prelude Op. 23 Nr. 4 for what seems like ages now, but since he quit music school years ago, he's basically been learning it on his own, and as a result, there isn't really anyone around to correct his mistakes. These mistakes have always bothered me (especially since it's so much more difficult to "un-learn" mistakes if you know what I mean), specifically because his polyrhythm was completely off. So what I did was take a sheet with empty staves and just took one bar (bar 19 from the prelude, if I remember correctly) + the first notes/chords from the next bar (left and right hand) because it's more convenient to write that way (it completes one cycle), and stretched it over the entire length of the blank sheet.
In other words, the prelude has 6 vs 9 polyrhythm (which is basically the same as 2 vs 3), which means if the page is around 18 cm long or so, that means the right hand (9 notes + 1 from the next bar = 10 notes) starts at 0 cm and ends with a note at 18 cm, and then you draw the remaining 8 notes inbetween that space (18/9 = 2 cm inbetween each note). You do the same for the left hand (6 notes + 1 from the next bar), again you start at 0 cm and end with a note at 18 cm and draw the rest inbetween. What you'll notice is that - in the case of 2 vs 3 or 6 vs 9 - the left hand notes are played either at the exact same time as the right hand notes, or exactly 50% inbetween two right hand notes. This is why 2 vs 3 is the easiest to learn out of all polyrhythms (in the case of 4 vs 5, it changes from 25% - 50% - 75% with each note). But this method works for all types of polyrhythms. Again, all you have to do is take 1 bar (+ 1 note from the next), divide your staff by however many notes there are left and right, and practice that line very slowly, and you'll "easily" master polyrhythms.
This method worked for my dad and since then, he's finally "mastered" the 6 vs 9 bars from Rach's 4th Prelude, lol. Sorry for the long comment, and hopefully I made some sense.
Now the concept of polyrhythms really became easy...thank you...
Yes
so excited to see that you made a poly rhythm video! you have a great way of explaining exactly what you are doing and i love it.
I love this! Now I understand polyrythms! Thank you so much for this Nahre! 💚🙏
This is awesome! Great exercise for experienced pianists and even beginners. I'm going to show this exercise to my students! Thanks so much
I was waiting for this!!!! Thanks nahre!
this is such a good & useful exercise, thanks for sharing it!
So glad, thank you!
With pen and paper practice, I prefer counting in my mind the numbers and using m foot to hit every number, I find it more useful than pronouncing the numbers and easier when you speed up the exercise :)
Gonna have to do Hanon again in polyrythms--or, not. But this great description was the first time I've taken seriously how much I like polyrythms. Now I want to review Neely and Bruce videos that went over my head (or fingers) the first time.
Panting* i literally got here because i was binge watching Rick Beato. So tracing back my last two days... Couperin’s Kyrie of mass of the convents to Wanamaker organ to modal chord to rick beato to Plini to blues chord progression to Mellotron keyboard and now to Nahre. You can just imagine how overwhelming it feels...then now looking at more recommended videos!
1:16 WELL, WHERE’S THE 7:12 POLYRHYTHM TURORIAL? Lol
Thank you Nahre, that exercise really helps
I first encountered 2 against 3 when practicing Debussy's Arabesque 1. Gosh that took me some time to figure out but once you've got it it's not that hard anymore. Adam's video was also the one that helped me understand polyrhythms fundamentally. David Bruce's video on the Indian Konnakol is also a brilliant one! PS: I found counting in Mandarin a lot easier than in English cuz all the numbers are in single syllables in Mandarin. Not sure if it's also true in Korean~
There's a wonderful video on youtube of Miles Okazaki going through a whole number of polyrhythms on his guitar. It's basically the same method, but really cool to see in all its variations.
Super inspiring! On making different melodic rhythms!!!
Thanks for this video! Your suggestions are awesome!
so useful ! thanks so much
Wow! Thanks Nahre, and Adam, for some insight into this! I would never have thought of a method for helping with this. 💕
Thank you Audrey!!
you're the best, great lesson!
Thank you so much!
I just started doing exactly this 2 mounts ago. It's extremely effective! :)
Thanx! Very informative
Love the channel! Thank you for the techniques!
Thanks for sharing such a great tips!!! It’s really helpful 😍
Exactly what i need! Thanks!
Top tips! Thank you for posting!
3:17 "Nice cup of tea, baby. Thank the British."
For me, polyrhythms are easy enough when they are short like the 3:8 polyrhythm in Nocturne in Eb, op. 9 no. 2 but as the polyrhythms get longer and longer, my hands want to sync up and the polyrhythm degrades, eventually reaching a point where my right and left hand are playing square rhythms relative to each other. So, playing Fantasie Impromptu is very hard, even though I know how to play the 3:4 polyrhythm that is prevalent in the A section of the piece(the section in C# minor), because either my left hand goes from triplets to sixteenths or my right hand goes from sixteenths to triplets(usually, my left hand tries to catch up with my right hand). They want to sync up, so forcing them to not sync up becomes quite the challenge, as if the arpeggios and scales themselves aren't enough of a challenge.
Compared to the constant 3:4 in the A section of the Fantasie Impromptu, the quiet but powerful feel of Beethoven's Presto Agitato is a piece of cake. I'm not at all saying that Beethoven's Presto Agitato is easy. I'm just saying that it is way easier for me than Fantasie Impromptu
I use a lot of Polyrythms when i compose, but i often struggle to play them, i will try your exercises 😊
Sweet! Thank you
Great explanation. Thank you
I think if I am not wrong I got this this time... With your pen paper method of course.
So u mean if I need to play 2-3 rythm .. lets play metronome at whatever pace. Now right hand play 6 notes with 3 fingers with metronome. Now if I play left with 2 fingers at beat pos 1 & 4 repeatdly.. Then its your 2 by 3 polyrythm ... Right? 😀
So basically I am playing 4 right hand notes for any two left hand consequitive notes. So we say we playing 2nd and 3rd beat of right hand at 1/3rd and 2/3rd position.. right? Then back to synchronising both hand at 100 percent position i.e 4th beat of right and 2nd beat of left. So we back again at start of loop. Thanks!
Main thing is right hand should play evenly with metro. Or half of metro whatever. All I need to do is to now play left at 1st and 4th position or same finger of right again if they just 3 finger roll. This is good and easy way to fit 2 into 3 then other way round where u try fit 3 into 2. 😀
Brilliant!
The technique used for the 5 against 7, Steve Vai described this method in a series of blog posts he had on his old website, it predates Adam Neely!
you helped me so much thank you ^^
Great! Its like Dohnanyis finger exercises.
I neglected to add the ending bars. I'm curious as to your opinion on Barenboims' more serious(lack of a better word) approach to that piece as opposed to Lasistas' more whimsical take on same?
"so that is a very slowed version of 5 against 7" ....really? 😅
Great video btw
😂 yes sort of ! Thank you!
@@NahreSol ❤️ I am the one who should thank you. Greetings from Costa Rica.
I love Costa Rica!!
@@NahreSol 😊I read on your Bio that you were at the University of Costa Rica, I don't know how much time ago, but I hope I'll be able to see you if you come back... I hope you come back!
That's a fantastic piano, Nahre!
nahre youre making me want to get a piano again
Yep, totally thought about Adam's video when I saw this title lol
Thanks for the video, helpful and (albeit really challenging for me) fun:D
I always internalize polyrhythms as waltz variations; anytime I hear odd numbered subdivisions, I just feel that rhythm as a waltz of varying speed. By the way, these exercises are evocative of both Dave Brubeck and Mike Ratledge. I think you would enjoy both players.
Hi! I would love to see your morning piano routine 🔥
Polyrhythms are cool as all get out. With enough practice, extremely easy to play.
I am too intimidated by this video... BUT I will get there! Thank you for the tutorial!
Amazing!
Like your beautiful sound and your beautiful fingers, most importantly, i like your music :) I am your new fan :)
EXTREMELY helpful video!!!!
I have to check this, but when the 5:7 was written out, some lines did not have a number circled... .... and now I understand.
Very good!
Thank you!!
Marvelous
Hey Nahre! Amazing video!
Could you please make a video that could guide me on how i could make a living out of music and piano when i finish highschool?
Great advice & method. But a question : why play ugly melodies for training, and not play pleasant chords / melodies for the exercise?
Hello Nahre, hope you are well! I know I am three years late to the party but I am curious! Wouldn't the 5 against 7 in the end of your video be considered a Polymeter rather than a Polyrythm? I think of it as extending over 7 bars of 5. Because to my understanding a Polyrhythm would be 7 notes laid into the duration of 5 notes, meeting again on the beginning of each bar. In any case , very entertaining video!
Thank you for sharing your passion. I finally have a piano again after a few years of a semi voluntary guitar exodus (Don't shun me fellow guitarists, Its a wonderful instrument), and your content is super fun and motivating. Wishing you all the best!
"Here's a question for you: in the time it takes the metronome to play 7 notes, how can I play 5? In other words, a 7:5 polyrhythm?
Let's find out...." (adapted from the "7:11 Polyrhythms" video)
@@wyattstevens8574 Ah well now its making sense, the whole paper represents one bar of 7 against 5 and she is counting the subdivisions between the main beats. This is really interesting then because if we look at the subdivisions as the main beats then there's a 7 bar long polymeter within one bar of a 7 against 5 polyrhythm. I mean it was not that obvious for me to wrap my head around but now its so logical. Genius!
@@joelooney1498 It's just the way he describes the 7:11 polyrhythm that I used up there.
The tempos are in the ratio of 7:5, if that helps.
Great video.
Wow this is great. Can you maybe go over arpeggio chords and how to practice and make them sound good? I have really small hands and I'm having trouble with Godowsky's 53 studies on the Chopin etudes: No 5 in D flat major Op 10 No 3