Why Churchill was a racist | Tariq Ali interview
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- This week we went to speak to author, activist and public intellectual Tariq Ali about his book "Winston Churchill: His Times, His Crimes".
We discuss the myth of the wartime Prime Minister, his racist and colonialist views and whether modern Britain should revise its understanding of the man.
Interviewer: Oli Dugmore
Camera: Harry Ainsworth
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Now I can see why Pierce Morgan has never had him on his show, he would tear Morgan to pieces.
He only bring highschool droupout.
Just saw a 23 year old name Jackson Hinkle destroy a much older but not wise😅 Pierce Morgan in a interview.
@@SB-ct9mk Richard Dawkins, Neil deGrasse Tyson ?
You can't even spell the man's name...
Piers Morgan would just talk over and yell at him. "He saved Britain...". "You're being woke..." Etc. That's how the interview would go on TalkTV or GB news.
I can remember my grandmother in Liverpool telling me that she hated Churchill for sending armed police against striking workers. She and many of her generation were no supporters of the man.
Thomas he sent a battle ship up the Mersey ready to fire on us , I still can’t believe that he was voted the greatest Briton not so long ago he was an absolute twat
Mind Begs the Question:
Hitler - Jews unsafe to German Values,Identity
If Politicians/Govts - Muslims unsafe to Western Values,Identity
Practicing Hitlers mein kampf,no?
Many others from Liverpool would hate him too if they knew the truth of the sinking of the Lusitania. There is a good documentary film on youtube called 'Murder on the Atlantic' with good facts in it i believe from what i have researched (Churchill was first lord of the admiralty at the time and 'wanted' the sinking to get the US to join the war).
My great grandfather lived on the Wirral, was one of the helmsmen and lost his life/was killed on the Lusitania.
Same here! My Gran (would now be 95 now but we lost her 7 years ago) hated the man! Thought of him as a great betrayer of the post war social reform project, an untrustworthy aristocrat, and if she’d been alive to see all the info on the Bengali stuff would have hated him for that too
They were in the end. Everyone was
I met Churchill, one of school friends had his old nanny, her mum was head of Roedean. He smelt of expensive whiskey and cigars. When I told mum who I'd met, she sat me down and told me the story of The Welsh Miners.
The you realised it was the whiff of sulphur you'd smelt.
And the story your mum told you was utter bollocks - Churchill recalled the troops that someone else had sent.
@@Pippins666You said similar under another comment re the Glasgow strikers. As home Secretary then, was Winston not in control, or was he always drunk down at the club whilst underlings ran the country, is that what you are suggesting?
@@onanysundrymule3144 link please to my comment about the Glasgow strikers
His favourite whiskey was Johnny Walker red label...very cheap whiskey...stop with ur cheap shots!
This is my lucky day; an interview with Tareq Ali cropped up and now this and others have turned up. Many thanks.
This is the kind of stuff you don’t see in corporate media
Nor these fake churches
Because it is utter nonsense.
@@archiebald4717how?
Yes, I agree. I’ve stopped watching corporate media.
Corporate media is Marxist media.
Two things my grandfather drove churchill on occasion during the war he hated him , my father who served in the 8th army had two hates Montgomery who he called a prissy queen and churchill who he thought a fat entitled twat.
Good.
He was also a bankrupt drunk forever indebted to Jews...didn't he bother to mention that?
👍
Who gives a shit about your grandfather and what he thinks?
Your grandfather sounds like a loser.
It was ironic that when Churchill made his famous speech "We will fight them on the beaches......." there was an aircraft on stand-by to take him, his Cabinet and the Royal Family to America if Germany invaded the UK
Oh you forgot the new motto he was about to release when Germany was on the eve of winning the battle of Britain….
You can always take one with you
Planning to give arms to women, children and elderly to do that. Same Hitler did in 45 and till today called despicable and it is indeed but what does it say about Churchill?
Wow😮 thanks for the input. History lessons in school don’t teach you anything of the sort, except that Churchill was a popular and charismatic leader.
@niccolamachiavelli8094 Wrong, my Grandfather was heavily involved in the evacuation plan. From the beginning of the war there was a RN ship docked at Scapa Flow which was ready to take the RF and the government to Canada. Like my Grandfather said he had no idea which beach etc Churchill would be fighting from, but it sure as hell wouldn't be in the UK.
Rubbish
My dad used to say that
You only need to look as far as Ireland to see the consequences of Churchill's bigoted form of racism. One of the leading architects of the divisive, colonial determination to retain strategic territory the British had occupied for centuries, covering a significant portion of the province of Ulster, a quintessential part of what was traditional, Gaelic Ireland.
It was Churchill played a major role in ensuring Ireland's partition. It is no coincidence that British schools do not educate pupils about the way the Irish were treated over the centuries.
No, the only history taught in schools is about how evil Hitler was and that they won the second world war. The colonial men, African and Indians, who died in fighting the disgusting war are never mentioned.
Ireland is interesting as over the centuries it ebb and flow. The various dynasties such as Normans, Tudors and in the modern times the William periodic era saw Ireland being reinvaded or lost and reinvaded although a place called Ulster the plantations was particularly valuable for Anglo-Scotch settlers.
To be fair British schools do not educate people about the working class here or social struggles in 19th century like Chartists. There is football and 'news; whilst oligarchs own everything.
Education system began in industrial revolution, when instead of dragging coal from deep mines on their backs children needed to learn how to push buttons on mechanical machines making cotton. Hence the three Rs were not really education for British workers.
All super powers have colonial mindset.
The new economic powers like India and China too are following the brutal nationalist rightwing ideas of the 20th century west.
China in Tibet,xingiang,India in J&K and north west are text book cases of colonial oppressions.
I never once heard of this side of Churchill at school or whenever he is spoken about. He’s only ever praised to the highest honour by brits. This really says a lot, that he never seems to be criticised for this. It’s just never spoken about; it’s all hush hush.
it was normal to be racist back then, it still is, we just aren't open about it like before. I wouldn't judge people back then in the same manner as we do now in terms of racism. Moreover, we are just as racist today, we just pretend not to be to appear good. Every person of every race is a bit racist, some obviously more than others but it is in our DNA to distrust other groups and favour our own. It's partly why our species are still kicking around after all these years. We are all animals when it comes down to that.
I was at the cemetery at a centenary event in Wales where we lay wreaths on the graves of two young men who had been shot by Churchill's troops. The local teacher had written a meticulous documentary book on the subject. In his Churchill book, Boris Johnson denied this had ever happened; he said it was 'tripe'.
Of course Johnson called it tripe. He belittles all and can't tell the truth.
Does the deaths of two men somehow overpower the saving of the lives of tens of millions and the stopping of facism?
What is that meant to say,, I live where there are thousands of graves of young men women and children killed by "Churchill's troops " I live in Germany, ...You make war you confront the State with violence you take the risk it will work out badly, Such claims as the ones made by Ali are just a load of bunkum, No context history by people seeking advantage, The short clip below tells the reality of the incident you refer to, But usually people prefer to stay with the myths to embrace their enmities,
th-cam.com/video/osgNngdJyTI/w-d-xo.html
Boring boris the commie puppet.
I could listen to Mr. Ali all day, but things to be, and people to do! 🔥😈🔥
Hi Tariq i am a few years younger than you, and when i was growing up it was the time of the skinheads and i was one,uneducated inner London Brixton Streatham youth who really didn’t have clue, and in the course of my work met a gentleman Who was educated and who helped me to become educated as in no longer being a racist and believe it or not it was your self that he used to educate me,god bless Tariq ,and as a great Irish man used to sign off with and may your god go with you.
What a nice story and comment.
Loved Dave Allen.😊❤
Churchill was a figure of hate among most of the adults I grew up with in 1960s Glasgow. Funny how people forget. It's a living memory thing I suppose.
No, its that history tends to judge people less harshly than those who hated them would like.
Churchill was a man of his age, by our standards he was a terrible person, but thats the benefit of hindsight.
@ bipolarminddroppings A man of his age ? Giving the go ahead to use chemical warfare against the Iraqis in the 1930s ?? I don’t think any man in 2023 or 1923 would see that as an honourable or justified way of fighting a war. Churchill was a cruel evil man in his own right.
@@bipolarminddroppings 'Man of his age'?, what date is the cut-off point by which we accept murder, genocide, racism, sexism, imperialism, etc. I can assure you there were plenty of people who called all this out in the early part of 20th centuary.
Glaswegians hate everybody. 🤢
He was a politician, that goes with the territory. He has been singled out in the common memory because of his leadership in WW2, without this there would be no confusion in him being railed against for his shortcomings. What has happened is that this wartime leadership has served to negate all of his failures, ironically in much the same way as this video tries to use his racism to negate any of his successes.
I worked as a carer and many wonderful men and women I spoke to aprox 15/20 years ago loathed him. These are great people who served in the war and went through many struggles. Churchill was a awful man.
as compared to whom?
If you search hard enough you will always find someone to support your narrative. Twat
His alcoholism was a national embarrassment
Compared to Stalin? Roosevelt?
My mother was a historian of English history. She recognized the flaws in Churchill. She said the British public had the good sense not to elect him after the war. He was an awful military tactician. He was behind the foolish invasion of Turkey in WW1. He said that it was wise to invade Italy in WW2. “The soft underbelly of Europe”. He was so stupid as to disregard the difficulty of fighting in mountains. The good thing he did was to mobilize the English language in the fight against Hitler. His speeches were important in resisting Hitler. He was a great writer too albeit a bigot of the first order.
🐝🐝
He convinced the Allies to invade Italy before the Normandy landings not because he thought it was easier but to protect the British Empire shipping routes in the Mediterranean. The Americans didn't realise this until the invasion was in full force
hang on calm down there's several flaws with what you were saying Churchill was was super racist but he is not as stupid as you are making it out to be
1. the invasion of Italy was because war support was declining and there was elements of rebellion the invasion finally made the rest stop sitting on the fence and depose Mussolini which happened the Mediterranean being secured for allied shipping was always at the forefront of planning no one was tricked or deceived
2. the disaster of Gallipoli was mostly actually the UK media's fault they are the ones that bragged about it in the news paper the invasion of Turkey was also an ANZAC battle not a British one the British did very little fighting as they sat on the beaches "resting" waiting for Australia and New Zealand to do all the work
Gallipoli was so horrific that Churchill developed PTSD from it and tried to postpone D day and even forget about it entirely instead trying to secure Italy and move men into Austria and France he was more supportive of the invasion of Italy because it was going to be primarily airborne
invasion of Turkey affected him more than you seem to realize two nations treated like shit so few returned sent to slaughter irreversibly damaging both nations close ties to the UK and will to support future war efforts and he knew it
@@indeed8211 According to eminent historians, Churchill had his own agenda from the start of the war and pushed hard for the invsasion of Italy to suit his plans:
The “Soft Underbelly”
US and British objectives were not the same. The British wanted to restore and protect the prewar empire, including the routes through Gibraltar and Suez to their colonies and possessions in Africa and Asia. The Americans regarded the Mediterranean and Middle East as a distraction from the main task of taking on the Germans. They were not interested in preservation of the British Empire.
The Americans did find the operation harder than envisaged, thus the quoted 'tough old gut'
He sank the entire French navy which was waiting to fight on the Allied side.
But the British reelected him the next time around. Your mother clearly knows some history but not enough to make such sweeping statements.
Mr Ali, you come across the "our young Tariq Ali" that we learnt to consider as ours while growing up. Bravo - keep it going.
Ireland had a population of 8 million and the UK 12 million at 1801 during the act of union. Role on the exploitation of Ireland, about 2 million dead, 2 million emigrated and just over 3 million left in Ireland. The British empire exploited everyone. 😥
Nope! Every nation in British Empire joined because they wanted they're dinner. Fact.
@@Darren-fm3pewhy are so many people of all backgrounds clambering over each other to get into Britain 🇬🇧?? 🧐
@@P.H.888 To take it over😂
To get there stolen wealth back
Too fn bad.
Tariq Ali makes a great point in regards to Churchill. Churchill is either portrayed as 'a saint' or 'a demon.' There is 'no nuance' at all about how he is characterised in the public discourse. He was an effective war time leader but he was also responsible for Gallipoli, sent the 'Black and Tans' into Ireland and diverted food from India and Australia(which was bound for India) to Britain leading to millions of Indians starving to death. Those are just his 'greatest hits.'
I like Ali's idea about putting a 'left column' and a 'right column' of just the acts and the facts. History is complex, context dependant and complexly nuanced. We need to get a lot better at putting weights on both sides of the scales and making up our own minds. Thats progression.
Really great comment for a more balanced and less sensationalistic perspective!
would you say the same about Hitler
@@arunjetli7909 would you?
@@PhillipHilton no i eould not and neither eould i say anything positive about Churchill he was an accidental prime minister intellectually snd ethically challenged
i meant would
sorry for the typo
What Churchill did to the Irish and Welsh has never been forgotten nor forgiven. Worst kind of English Imperialist.
Im Irish are you? We can speak for ourselves we dont need your patronising white liberal crap. Churchill was respected by Micheal Collins and vice versa.
He didnt do us much harm he didnt get on with De' Valera many didnt in Eire a marmite Taosach.
We dont need white English liberals help thank you Malcolm X was right about white liberals! They cannot be trusted and bite you from behind
Actually he was half American and part Irish. As for the Welsh? Churchill simply prefered the Jews to the Welsh because the Jews paid off his debts and elevated him to 'greatness'. That's why he happily sent the troops in to put down the Welsh uprisings against the Jews during the summer of 1911.
@@henryb160 he was no friend to the English either; having put troops and armed the police on the streets of London in 1912.
Churchill Worst kind full stop
Black and tans again
Thanks for having someone intelligent on here for a change. Thanks.
Tariq Ali is a lonely figure now since he is so well read and speaks his mind. Far more erudite than any other public intellectual around. Thanks for this interview.
A very impressive man blessed with integrity and wisdom. I agree that, where it is warranted, statues should have two plaques and not knocked down although some times statue bashing can have unexpected consequences. In Victoria, BC, Canada a statue of Captain James Cook was knocked down by protesters. It didn't need much knocking because it was made of fibreglass. Many local people were appalled by the stinginesses of the city council that put it up.
This is the type of human that I can respect. Would love to meet him.
@@peterreston6478 Literally a hero with fiberglass feet ... 😂
I am glad he is a lonely figure -he should leave here and take all his self hating followers and move somewhere that history suits him. Mars perhaps.
I wanted to read this book so much that, unlike me, I pre-ordered the hardback version and bought it, paying top banana. It is a very good book. It is not so much a book about Churchill himself but about his times and what he did in them, if that makes sense. To me the things that register most are (1) (as a (deficient) ex soldier, myself), he saw things predominantly through a soldier's eyes - was that healthy? NB he was "only" a cavalryman, not having the brains or application to be an engineer, artilleryman or infantryman; (2) as a conservative, then Liberal, then Conservative could he be trusted? (3) the Great Unrest (a) Tonypandy - if it is right that he kept the soldiers back, they were still a threat, nevertheless. (b) how do you justify a warship training its guns on Liverpool where there was a very big strike? - In the "troubles" the British Government was keen only to have wheeled vehicles on operations in Northern Ireland - not tanks. I wasn't aware of a Scottish equivalent - I will look into that. Churchill was an aristocrat, an imperialist and a capitalist - and probably a racist too. Whichever way you slice it, his career was intended to ensure that the status quo continued. How else could he advocate the post WW1 war intervention by allied powers in Russia in which British troops took part (NB British War Medal 1914-1920 - not 1918) intended to "strangle the Bolshevik baby in its cradle" - or whatever the precise words were. Tariq's analysis that it was Thatcher who rehabilitated him is instructive. I would like to learn more about that.
Thank you Oli for your interviewing plan and skills. You are a true journalist. Thank you for your professionalism and skills. You have worked to the public benefit. You have enabled Tariq to make his case to public benefit. Thank you. Let's hope this gets the many views and thumbs up it deserves.
If he had strangled Bolshevism in its cradle Bolshevism wouldnt have genocided millions of Slavs in Ukraine (part of the Marx Engels plan was to genocide the Slavs, they wrote about it) without the communist genocide in Ukraine the Ukranians wouldn't be nazis and we wouldn't be facing world war 3 right now
British workers did support the Empire, that is true, but I see that as a form of gaslighting from the ruling class. A lot of them didn't recognise their own enslavement.
But why does that really change anything? The point is the privileged layer of the working class ultimately sold out the working class as a whole
@@Left_it That was especially true with Thatcherite policies. Divide and rule, always a good tactic for the ruling class.
Nothing has changed. Capitalism only comes to kill, steal, and destroy, yet workers keep themselves enslaved too it. They’ll die for it. That’s some damn good brainwashing.
*"We will fill their stomachs with lead..."*
There I stopped-shocked.
I knew Churchill was a monster.
I knew his remark "why M.K.Gandhi is not dead yet"
I knew he was the butcher who killed 40 million Indians in (artificially created)Bengal femine.
But Tarik Ali,
I had forgotten abt you.Did not know you were alive or not.
Thank you so much.
I love you for your brilliant mind and lucid writing.
I will buy your book on that Monster called Churchill who is the hero of racist right wingers like MODI.
Thank you again.
Thank you Tarik Ali
As GHANDI lay dying by his body guards bullet, he was heard saying, " Churchill was right."
India was not ready for Independence.
Churchill tried to delay Independence for India. To PREVENT
MASS MURDER HINDU AND MUSLIM CIVIL WAR.
@@lorenzo6mm I thought only Modi Lunatics in India get to know crazy stories.
I understand, an Irishman
Churchill was warning that the entire time and now people say it's evil colonialism, but Churchill was right about the coming bloodshed between Hindus and Muslims. And if he actually said then why isn't Gandhi dead- during a famine when millions of Indians starved (because of the typhoon and WW2) but Gandhi was on a perpetual hunger strike - how did he manage to eat enough - while hunger striking for politics while his fellows actually starved in earnest? @@lorenzo6mm
@@lorenzo6mmno he wasn’t
The Churchill story that sticks out to me is when he ordered the police to block the doors of an anarchist squat and set fire to the building, ordering the fire brigade to not put the fire out. Whatever you think of anarchists or squats, it was full of women and children who under Churchill's orders were burnt alive
Wow this was never taught in history class in fact the opposite. Portrayed as a charismatic leader who was loved by all.
@@rosem5041Maybe it's BS.
90% sure that moment you are talking about is the Siege of Sidney in which two armed gun men were in there apartment that was on fire (more than likly set by the police themselves) after hours of shooting at the police, all the people in the apartment below them and in the sounding houses were all evacuated only the two gun men died in the fire one of them was shot in the head when he put his head out the window a few firemen died from clearing the builden after it was put out buy no others died in the fire
It "sticks out to you" but you never bothered to look it up, even before commenting. Good job!
@@apexpsycho666
Ask yourself, Why did the firemen risk their lives ?
The trouble with official stories is how much gets covered up.
Statues are not history. They often distort and misrepresent history, not in words but by their very presence, to which people attach what is effectively fantasy. They also distort by their size and position. Statues of people worthy of admiration rarely exist, or in the few cases where they do, they are usually relatively small and obscure compared with those of genocidal criminals, thieves and exploiters.
Look at the large equestrian statue of Charles I ("the man of bloud") at the top of Whitehall, and there's one of Cromwell in the grounds of parliament (also a "man of blood" in Drogheda and other massacres). But where are the statues of John Lilburne, Gerard Winstanley, Thomas Rainsborough, Hester Biddle and other such people of those times? I don't want any and I'm sure they wouldn't have. I ask, with Hester Biddle (only without god)
"Did not the Lord make all men and women upon the earth of one mould, why then should there be so much honour and respect unto some men and women, and not unto others, but they are almost naked for want of Cloathing, and almost starved for want of Bread?"
Excellent comment.
Yes, distorted history, but history.
The sort of history that we shouldn’t repeat. Good example of what Japan was doing until this last year - forgetting it’s past and revisiting it with different eyes.
Statues allow us to be disgusted every day to not forget the type of countries we have developed, ingrained in those figures and wars.
It’s my opinion that we would probably forget the nasty past we have if we didn’t have those statues.
Do most people know about this nasty past? No, but that’s where the type of stuff Tariq Ali is talking about is effective.
Would be a great moment for our countries if we had, like the example he gave, the current plaque showing how we used to portray that person in the statue and another one showing how we now see that person.
That would be very enlightening!
It can’t forget that we need to, above all, learn about all these people from the past because nowadays new statues and monuments alike are being built for modern figures that are doing very similar things that the ones on old statues did…
I agree. It also depends on the reason for why those statues were put up. A lot of the confederate statues (you know, the guys who wanted to continue the practice of slavery) were put up a decent chunk of time after the civil war as a way of putting POC in their "place". If the statue was put up in such circumstances, then I think it should be taken down and those that say otherwise are only doing so because they support what those abborant people believe. Free speech can and is used as a shield for critisism. You can freely use your free speech to say racist things, and I can use mine to call you a racist. That isn't shutting down debate, that is describing your views my dude.
@@Suddenly175Or, better idea, we remove the statues and improve our history curriculum.
If you want someone you do not get to select which part(s) of them you like and cast the rest off. Take people as a whole. Oliver Cromwell is the symbol of the Parliamentarians not just a symbol of himself. The people I mostly agree with from that era are Charles I and John Milton. Charles' trial was also a legal absurdity. Anyway, I am drifting off the point.
Did not the LORD men of one mold? Well, we are apparently all descendants of Adam and Noah. Genesis 1:27 is not as obviously about human equality as I first thought. I think that the value of moral equality comes more from 'You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect' (Matthew 5:43-48). Why then should there be honour and respect to some men above others? Hierarchy means Holy Order. St Paul urged the Jews (Christianity is closer to the initial fulfillment of Biblical Judaism as well as not every Hebrew is a Jew and not every Jew is a Hebrew) in Rome to obey the civil authorities and to give honour to whom honour is due as God ordained the princes of this world (although I doubt this honour to whom honour is not just about Charles I et al).
Israel had ordained kings and judges (earls by role if not earls by name). Early Israel had no kings, but was led by the Prophet Moses, Joshua, the Judges (Samson et al) and the kings (Saul, David, Solomon et al). The Levites were the highest ranking of the tribes being of the Priestly order and consequently being subject to moral purity as only Levites could perform the Holy duties in the temples. The Book of Leviticus is about the duties of Priests and laws for moral purity. The Prophets (people like Elijah and Isaiah) were higher (as Moses was to his brother Aaron - Exodus Seven) than the Levites. Prophet means Holy messenger - Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Nathan, Elijah, Isaiah, John the Baptist et al. Angels (Holy messengers from Heaven - St Michael, Gabriel et al), being heavenly spirits, are higher still. Then God the Holy Spirit, then God the Son, then God the Father. This is not God and everyone being on the same plain. That is simply absurd to suggest an Angel or a Prophet should be as low as even a king. In Anglicanism and Catholicism the saints are somewhere between clergy and Prophet. I suppose we are equal in the sense that we are all beneath God the Father, but we humans are still beneath and have local hierarchies within the larger hierarchy as the clergy have hierarchies (Pope, Cardinal, Archbishop etc) above that of the king who has his hierarchy (king, prince, duke, marquess, earl/count, viscount, baron, lord, baronet - a king makes a prince who makes a duke ad nauseum).
Charity (or whatever the PC term for charity is - in the Abrahamic faiths, charity is really love: willing the good of the other as other given that is what the Hebrew word for love means), as shown by the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-34) is given and received by the individual, so just as Hester Biddle is asking what is to be done, one apt question is what are you doing, Hester? A lot of people complain about the state of the world and complain about other people, but forget Genesis 4:6-7. Biddle might well be doing something, but the only relief to the poor the king is expected to make is loans without interest to fellow Christians (for a Christian ruler, different for an Islamic or Jewish ruler). The rest of relief (say for someone who had a different faith or someone who had no faith) would be down to the individual to be the Good Samaritan rather than having Dennis Healy rates of taxation. The king could give money to whoever, but was not supposed to charge interest on loans to poor members of the congregation.
As an Irishman with a decent knowledge of our history, I can assert that Churchill was an English colonialist exceptionalist. He was an anti-Irish bigot who didn't want us to have our freedom.
And the Irish refuse to attend their own parliament?
@@dianamincher6479 What parliament are you referring to?
I mean it could be argued that up until that point England had been quite exceptional. Ireland and it's history would have fared no differently with any other powerful, successful neughbour regardless of it's culture. The only historical scenario in which Ireland didn't suffer colonialism would be if they had been the half of the islands of Britain to outpace their eastern neighbours, at this point they would become the colonisers.
What you are saying is unclear. "...outpace their eastern neighbours". What does thid mean? Do you mean "outpace" in terms of industrialism? Colonizing is not just conquering and dispossessing and appropriating the resources and setting English landlords as overlords for 300 years; it is also the denigration of language and culture. @@charliecatesby3346
Churchill thought that the Irish were crazy in not wanting to be British
It saddens me that in my country the Gambia, there is a place named after him called Churchill's town. If only we really knew who this guy was!
History will look back on us just as unkindly. The moral goalposts are a moving target and we will be judged to have missed it just as much as anyone else.
@@dogboy5398 You must be off your rocker, you twit lol. The guy stood up and fought against racism and oppression, in his own land, and you label him a murderer?? Anyway, it's a marvellous idea to rename it Mandela Town so I'll credit you with that lol.
Black children everywhere are only presented with flattering views of Churchill and other historical figures while our own heroes are minimized. Thank God for the internet and social media. We can learn the truth.
@@dogboy5398He is absolutely 100% a hero!
@@dogboy5398 Well, the entire world sees and recognizes him as a hero except you 😂😂
I so admired Tariq Ali it’s great to listen to him once more.
Interviewer is a genius so intelligent like damn this man Knows his stuff......man's just amazzzzing
What an absolutely fantastic interview with Mr Ali, I will buy his book. Churchill was also a war criminal and a eugenicist as well as a racist. It’s our duty to shine spotlight on it because history is all about fact not idealistic fiction. We cannot change history, instead we have to learn from history. The right to free speech is a privilege, it’s not without consequence and comes with great responsibility. There has to be a filter between brain and mouth (or fingers if typing) before you say something. Too many people are extremely unintelligent, incredibly lazy and cannot be bothered to educate themselves.
good comment
Indians = Racist to flood other continents 🙄
We need to apply and teach the historical critical method. We should see where the facts take us and not rely on myths, prejudices but rigorous scholarship.
I found out from my mother, born in 1929, that Churchill was exceedingly unpopular during the war and that people couldn't wait for the opportunity to get rid of him.
He was also unpopular with the the political class and the king
My father was of the same generation and said exactly the same
@@tonyatthebeachThe King pissed in the same proverbial pot as Elitist Churchill
they did just after the war!
Certainly not the impression my Grandmother, born in 1920 gave, Or others I have come across of a similar generation.
From a contemporary, (+/-5yrs)from India: Privileged to hear Tarig Ali. Greetings and best wishes.
I have to disagree with Tariq on the statue issue. In Canada, every small community across the country, save in the province of Quebec, has either a statue or a portrait of Churchill either inside or outside public buildings. Change is long overdue. What better motivation for quietly getting rid of the reminder of one of the Commonwealth's most toxic figures could there be than the need to move on? Let's stop praising and idolizing the wealthy simply because they are privileged. Elites need to share the realities they have been instrumental in creating - namely monopoly capitalism, inequality, poverty, climate disruption, Oligarchy, war, and undue mass exploitation. This is a history that needs to be got rid of. Kudos once again to Tariq for moving the focus away from Churchill, as a hero, to revealing the lipstick on a very big pig.
we can have racist written under every statue and portrait - then they'll voluntarily remove them! 😅
Agreed. To piggy back, his solution is SUPER hopeful. People aren't walking around researching everything they see. Having a statue of a US president, then walking around the corner and seeing the status of his slave doesn't automatically cause someone to go out of their way to do research. I do agree with his take on cancel culture but I don't agree on the statue remark. Honestly, it's rare that I agree with putting up a statue in the first place.
The powers that be don't want change, worse still nor do most people. The majority of the public don't want to hear the truth, regardless of the subject, ignorance is bliss, how else does a white supremacist war criminal like Churchill end up being voted 'greatest Briton'?
Yaaaaay, Bang on the nail head, with a GIANT HAMMER.
Canada is an European settler state. Little wonder why Winston Churchill would be admired there.
Thank you for this wonderful interview. How refreshing to hear someone authentic.
Tariff overcame prejudice as a young man and inspired a leader of protest against the Capitalist monolith that was Britain. He hasn't changed much, still bringing truth to power.. He is one of the few who inspired youth to think radically. Nice to see his fire has not dimmed and now age has given him the wisdom of his years you can see the fire still burns. Glad we still have such stalwarts to bring his wisdom to the discussion!
Could listen to Tariq all day 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I am extremely unhappy that,Churchill lived for few years in my home town Bengaluru(India) during his young days.
Never knew that. Interesting. Got to know more of that
I feel also unhappy you are a Slum Dog with no pedigree. Know your place 🙈
He still didn't clear his club bills if I am right?
@@sudipshettynoojjis7851 Most probably yes,but not very sure.
Great discussion. Thanks. Cheers from Australia
Tariq Ali is one of the greats - always displaying such profundity of historical knowledge and lucidity of intellect,
Greetings from Ireland, great talk, very interesting
Excellent interview , Tariq Ali doesn’t hide the facts . He does touch the nerve and stimulate intellectual debate
wow, i am sure Cruela would like to deport him to Rwanda!
@@Arltratlogrow up
The interview shews just how much he doesn't know or understand about historical events like the recurring famine in Bengal, which suits his narrative.
Which is what? Please elaborate.
He would be invited to Rwanda by Paul kagame.
Kagame would agree with him.
Marvelous interview! Thank you both. My introduction to Tariq Ali was in 1970 when my parents said to have nothing to do with that leftwing troublemaker and rabble rouser. Really? So I did some digging and found he and I were on the same rabble rousing page! He far more effectively and eloquently than I, but I certainly gave - and give - him my (im?)moral support!
This is a very educated man and I admire him greatly.
In 50 years time we will measure Tariq agaibst the new modern moral standards and he too will be deemed evil and used as a pawn to engender an opposing ideology. Long lives the heros of hindsight !!
Tariq Ali is always engaging and brilliant
Thank you both very much indeed.
It had been, perhaps, 15 years since I had heard Mr. Ali speak.
He seemed as genuine, eloquent and convincing as he was whenever it was I last heard him.
And as for you, Mr. Politics, or may I call you Joe, you are one of the closest interviewers I have seen on YT whom I could say with all sincerity tries to be impartial/unbiased.
I really appreciate your no-nonsense, plain speech approach, which you pull off without trying to dumb down.
Thanks a lot from far away.
This is all eye-opening. As a school kid in the 90s and early 00s I was not taught much about the British empire (and obviously this stuff about Churchill comes as a surprise).
Ali is brilliant. Great interview
Like others in this comments section, I too disagree on his view on the statues...Churchill himself is still being idolised without or barely a critical view on his racist behaviour. It is however ironic that one of his statues, opposite the British parliament in London, is right next to Gandhi.
As GHANDI lay dying by his body guards bullet, he was heard saying, " Churchill was right."
India was not ready for Independence.
Churchill tried to delay Independence for India. To PREVENT
MASS MURDER HINDU AND MUSLIM CIVIL WAR.
Wrong Gandhi!! Brush up on history, mate.
Ghandi was also a racist. Statues are not the best way to remember people or adulate them. Some statues sit for centuries until activists find something that doesn’t fit in with changing society. Soon there will be new statues going up that future people will tear down. It’s a cycle. The Roman’s pulled down most statues of the Pharos and gods in Egypt. It’s life.
He did the same to the miners in Scotland. Sending troops in to crush them.
Thanks for this enlightenment especially those dark plans for Kenya my country.britain did indeed commit genocide in Kenya, forceful removal of populations no different from what Germany did! pressure has been applied to successive Kenyan governments to keep these crimes against humanity under wraps.we demand Nuremberg courts to open for the hearing of these British crimes in open court
I fully believe the British atoning for their crimes is currently one of the few things that can save the current polity from descent into eternally worsening mismanagement.
I understand, an Irishman.
Wales is a colony of England and they behaved the same there as they did else where in the Empire.
One of my favourite interviews on TH-cam. Nicely done Oli
Why?
@@vm5954 because, for me, the purpose of an interview is to receive a response to a question in its entirety, and have the interviewer genuinely wait for the full answer. Oli did that here, and there was no ambiguity in the answers given by Mr Ali.
Most interviewers are just waiting for their chance to jump back in and listen to the answer on playback, rather than being present.
Its so important to hear this, we are often spoon fed lies about history, it really helps putting everything into prospective
Yes, His-Story
Tariq Ali couldnt lie straight in bed and im a RMT member
They teach lies in school they teach you what they want you to believe, it is indoctrination and programming, they did the same with Thatcher with the minors strike
Sorry but which lies about history do you feel you have been spoon fed?
Do you think the UK is particularly egregious in the way it presents its history?
@@hastekulvaati9681 Well, the UK has done a corker of a job recently and now the government has 'bought' the papers, there are no holes barred on the lies they feed us.
Really interesting hearing his opinions! His opinions about Mother Theresa are also worth hearing. Another person regarded as a hero by many, especially Catholics, some of them still idolise her, but the truth of what kind of person she really was, is a very different case from what was believed by many.
Where an i see that please
@@MrKwodsonikpunk In his documentary on Mother Teresa titled “Hell's Angel.".
@@paradoxicalcanons First of all, it was *Christopher Hitchens* who reviled mother Theresa in Hell's Angel. And he was a Marxist atheist. Another bloody Brit who hated religions.
@BloodyEyeFull You are way off base! The Brits have hated Catholics since multiple wives killer King Henry the 8th made himself head of the Anglican church. Your eye is too bloodied to see truth. Are you also a Zionist by any chance?
Christopher hitchens said the same thing about Mother Theresa over the years too
Churchill never liked Gandhi. He always looked down on him and used to call him a 'naked faqeer' meaning a beggar.
It’s really refreshing to see and hear Someone who lives in Europe humble to recognize these things, which many Europeans don’t want to sit down and talk about.
Well as a lefty who had to run from his own country where they don't like left wing revolutionaries he's made a good living in Britain telling the natives what complete **** they were.
I wonder what he could have achieved if he'd used his talents to bring democracy and human rights to his homeland Pakistan?
Mr Ali is 100% correct.
The whole of Britain was totally behind the Empire.
No matter how you put it, it wasn't Churchill who was the English Landladies who openly and proudly erected signs "No Black, No Dogs, No Irish".
And not a single English person has ever disowned those sentiments...
"not a single English person....." not true
Churchill was a true racist. If you were not from his circle you had it. Ireland, the Indians bengalis. People whom literally built this country were made to suffer horrendously. Just wanted to say this was a brilliant interview. Pj doing the job the British media won't.
The didn't literally build Britain tho did they 🙄
@@tom4381 yea they literally did. If you're up for it do a video chat I'll give you a free history lesson from the white folk's of this country. We'll start with the 45 trillion stolen and the cheap abused labour used to build literally everything in this country which continues to this day.
Remarkably and clearly against all modern intuition the people who "Literally built Britain" were the British ! I'm sure you'd be horrified to learn that outside of Western Europe most people in the world are racist to this day, though not sure that knowledge would do much to advance your political ideas. It's meaningless to use a modern value created to accomodate a changing population to try and measure historical figures. I could easily go after Nelson Mandela for not supporting Gay or Trans rights.
@@tom4381Indirectly yes because the 43 Trillion the British Empire looted from India was used to build Britain. Churchill hated Indians!
I love the comment from M K Gandhi - He was once asked by a European Journalist, "What do you think of Western Civilisation?" "I think it would be a good idea"...
The book is a first rate work of UK imperial history and politics. Currently re-reading it for the third time. Hasta Siempre Tariq from Nicaragua.
Thanks for posting.
As far as I'm concerned, racism was just a whole other animal back then. Most of my mates have grandparents that they love dearly...but would feel nervous about other people meeting them because of their views.
I'm thankful and honestly shocked that both my Grandparents never held bigoted views during their entire time alive. Hell my Grampa pulled my mum aside when she was 16 and told her "Don't you dare treat anyone different for who they love or the color of their skin. It's awful and I don't want you to grow up like these idiots.".
But this is apparently rare, or their grandparents views changed with time. I've come to understand that while I would of hated being alive in the 20s to 50s...things I hate were just the norm...
They sound like my parents. I remember the old man chasing one of the local racists down the street. After they'd had the temerity to knock on the door and try and co-opt him into chasing a South Asian family out of the village. He was incandescent!
That's not true
Racism has always existed, yes, but not at the level of Europeans.
You have to think that the British East India companies soldiers were in majority Indian, more than 90% & this had a lot to do with the Hindu cast system.
Can you imagine a brown black empire coming to a European nation & the white majority fighting for them?
Churchill was just as evil as Hitler.
@@capt.bart.roberts4975 Hah, nice. Yeah, my Grampa wasn't a neighbourhood watch kinda lad, but he just made sure he wasn't going to raise a bad person in his eyes. Tbf, they just always came out with very modern takes on things before they were considered good takes.
His only bug bear was religion, but that's because he was raised Catholic (Irish mum), and the church was not good to his mum. Other than that...he basically was a live let live hippy...who's still a roll-up sleeves, boxing loving sailor xD.
@@lionroar26 That makes little sense. Churchill aside, (I need no convincing as to his downsides) you mentioned the caste system. This is just further proof that the wolves in any society need little persuasion to rule with an iron fist and that the roughly 70% of sheep will follow them over a cliff if it means they get left alone. History is littered with examples of this. Granted, Churchill lit the touch paper and the UK benefitted, but there were those in India just waiting for such an opportunity and proffitted a lot more than the lower classes in the UK.
Include Starling as well@@lionroar26
Those who really knows history and a critical thinker will agree with this guy
I love this exchange. Thank you. 😎
Wonderful interview! I grew up with fervent Tory parents (we no longer speak, although I am thinking of sending them the book!) so I never knew that much about Churchill until I met my (Irish) husband, and then started to learn more about what an unpleasant character he was. Yet another horrible product of the British imperial system... people never learn though...the way Johnson modelled himself on Churchill and successfully fooled the populace just shows how badly the UK education system fails us.
Churchill is not celebrated for his 'unpleasantness' and I think that's a key thing to remember.
It is the sort if thing taught at Eton I would have thought. The good stuff but gloss over the bad! Boris seemed to have racist views himself. Not good when running a country.
@@janetmalcolm6191 Boris? What's he got to do with it?
@@MrDamiansimor Churchill ran this country but with racist views didn't he??
Boris wanted to emulate Churchill.
That is why I wrote that...Churchill was HIS idol.
@@MrDamiansimor also peoples unpleasantness is kept quiet.....otherwise they might not get to rule. Nobody sees that side of them at least at first.
Brilliant interview - so important to hear in our times with far right elements increasing their influence all over the world.
Brilliant? Please! That word has become too abused.
Another boring safe underwhelming windy nothing if a long lecture.
Hasn't changed in years.
Waste of time.
Yes Churchill is a lot like Hitles and Dulles.
And??
Focus time on what matters today. Worse things in real time are upon us and this winbag doesn't explore THAT meaningfully either.
@@Madasin_Paine th-cam.com/video/21CL-QqRgs0/w-d-xo.html
@@Madasin_Painehistory telling is always slow and boring but it's important to hear the other side of the story and not the only side. I presume you are not a big fan of the bashing the british image gets in this interview.
@@kurdaali
Out of respect for the audience, the editor and speaker lack.
Why on Earth would you presume so incorrect yet likely to appease your POV?
Think and research first then asking obvious self serving questions will become unnecessary.
The far left are worse
You said the truth, he was more criminal and racist but he had the dark main stream Anglo Saxon propaganda media working for him and we the colonies believed them even when they robbed us.
Excellent interview, really enjoyed it
I love Ollie's interviews, and Tariq as always is fantastic 😊
Great interview.Tariq Ali came across as having a nuanced approach to the less heroic aspects of Churchill's legacy. His book cannot be the "Marxist insult to history" that reviewer Simon Heffer wrote about in the Telegraph.
Tariq Ali's books are Marxist drivel for the most part. But to really insult history they would need to be historic books first. Which is definitely not the case with them or other opinion pieces that cherry-pick and ignore Historic data.
Simon Heffer is an extreme right wing journalist, very similar to Sebastian Gorka in the US.
His intellectual curiosity has led him to uncover the truth as far as possible, which covers a wide span of knowledge that is not commonly known!
My old dad was in WW2 on convoys, he never fired a shot in anger during the whole war but he got shot at and torpedoed quite often. He told me about the election and how many were fed up with Churchill and they celebrated on his demise. Not many men on the convoys had any affection for Churchill, or even in the Royal Navy, in fact everyone was tired of the war and Churchill.
The popular portrayals and perceptions of Churchill over the past few decades have more to do with nostalgia, idealisation of the past and wishful sentiment. I think it is a reflection of how Britain is growing uncertain & nervous about its future, it’s identity and status. When nations and cultures feel that way, they often cling to, and mythologise the past as a comfort.
How is our country defeating the Nazis being “idealised”? Should we no longer be proud of this achievement? Did all of our ancestors who fought die in vein? They would be ashamed of your comment
I have always admired how Tarik Ali speaks about world histories with intelligence and wisdom with absolute clarity. He has that ability to conntect with the utmost clarity with great insights. In addition, without hatred. I have severial of his books.
Thank you both for this discussion today. It begins when we see we are all part of this world and all humanity matters. Not this arrogance of one race is better than another or the powers of greed, which makes only one the white race matters . However, domination to control others in their lands for minerals and wealth by wars for profits keeps others under submission and contributes to breed divisions and hated.
I will not participate in this insanity and divisions. Universal consciousness of love for one another for world peace. Look at us now in 2023.
Peaceful solutions and new ideas a must and debates with arguments with intelligence speaking loud and clear for peace.
We are all walking in seas of madness, all societies are being affected now and tramatized. Wars and domination in this hypocrisy of power of the elites as families and children are being destroyed by the millions in all nations. May it end? One can only imagine what the world could be when one sees inside oneself with the enormous energy with what love is not. It begins with deepest awareness of who are we? How do we use our brains?
🙏❤️🌎🕊🎵🎶
Tariq Ali lives in a parallel dimension. If Hitler had won over Churchill, there would be absolutely zero racial diversity in Britain.
Very cool and wise in your comments! We have to get away from the madness that is going on here and around the world in general. We must come to the realization that we are all one Human Family and that religion or ethnicity does not affect our lives or our humanity as a species!! Thank you for your openness! The world desperately needs people like you, to make us think, reflect on what is happening now! Blessings to you and your family 🙏
He was famous for his war time speeches. He was an aristocrat and a bigot from what I have read. He was considered unflinching in his tenacity to win the war. He spoke for the aristocracy and at that time no right minded British citizen would want to be ruled by what they considered a brutish culture. I am not sure why he would have hated jews, but it was most likely to do with the mindset of old ruling class or families.
Tariq Ali is a brilliant writer. 🎉This publication on Churchill further strengthen his excellence as a writer and a political activist.
Thank you for introducing me to this great man.
Enjoyed the interview.
Great interview, I’ll buy the book
Great thinker, committed, and progressive historian with a wonderful and revealing new book. Bravo! Thanks!
It was so interesting to listen .Many thanks to Tariq Ali to explain about the history .
Loved that! Well done Ollie! I love your interview style. Listening from Wales x Diolch x
The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones
What a delight and unexpected treasure! Who could be better than Tariq to approach this task?
I have a friend whose graduation ceremonies included Churchill's "Iron Curtain" speech. He has always hated Churchill vehemently.
@@dogboy5398 Don't be silly.
@@dogboy5398 Wow, look at all that murder lol
@@dogboy5398 Keep posting irrelevant whataboutism with no basis in reality 🤣
@@MissBlennerhassett876 he was heavily involved in the Church Street bombing.
@@stevenicol1 While he was in jail? lol
Great and informative interview.
Tariq is a honorable man
Like Mark Corrigan.
Churchill was one of the greatest spindoctors ever. It's a example how morale can win a war . He turned the humiliation at Dunkirk into a positive. Created this concept of the ' Bulldog spirit ' that would never give up. Etc. Now I'm obviously happy the Allies won the war. But I can't help but wonder what would have happend if Hitlers's priority had been the invasion of England right after Dunkirk( instead of invading Russia ). . I'm sure the British would have fought bravely, but the Nazis would (probably ) have Blitz-Krieged it's way to London within a week after landing .
But would America have waited until Pearl Harbour I wonder - and what about the responses from the
Commonwealth? Life is full of "ifs" and that can make history even more interesting. .
@@songsmith31aNow obviously we can't know what would have happend in the long run. However, If we look at the historical data it's clear that the Americans only started it's immense war industry after Pearl Harbor. If the Nazis invaded England it would have been too late. The technology wasn't advanced enough to invade Europe from the U.S. And American voters didn't want to interfere after WW1.
@@songsmith31alol why would America help Britain? You do realise these European and North American powers really disliked each other right? That’s why they had so many wars with each pre WW2. Just because they had at that a good “trade relationship” you think America is gonna risk their rising economy and power by going to war with old Europe? Naaa.
@@songsmith31a P.S: Yes life (and thus history) is filled with ' what ifs '.However Hitler choosing not to invade Britain against the advice of his generals is a an example how one man dictates the outcome of history . That England couldn't counter an full blown invasion early 41 is based on military factual data.
Churchill and his people couldn't do with just winning .It is true they had to absolutely destroy .Churchill was like an elegant old reptile. He could charm you entirely and entertain you before devouring you or so I understand .Best wishes to all 🌹 😊
When a journalist has to preface their question with 'to play devil's advocate', they are not being a journalist, they are acting as a supporting admirer.
Very informative thank you guys!
The notion that Churchill was universally admired during the war is false, quite a few thought his speeches were incoherent drunken ramblings.
He was sometimes booed when newsreels were shown and in the street when he visited bombed towns.
My late dad who volunteered to fight fascism in 1939 was working class and he hated everything that Churchill stood for.
The Tories with Churchill at the helm voted against the NHS 21 times.
Agreed but Gandhi was a racist too
Seems to be a ruling class nationalist trait popular in the 1930s rather than a uniquely British one
whataboutery.
The vast majority of nations have their share of racists and fascists. More love between nations is out of fashion but is a much needed quality if we are ever to achieve enlightenment and world peace!
gandhi didn't starve 10 million people to death out of racism; churchill did.
Thanks Joe.
Very enlightening.
👍
Or doctrine. Propaganda.
Still 'a go to guy' to receive insight and civilised debate. So pleased he has retained his faculties in his advanced years.
Great interview!!
John Lennon wrote Power to the People inspired by this great man.
Tariq Ali is wise and experienced. He makes us remember forgotten things , given us unique ways of looking at things .
He is a complete buffoon who never did an honest day's work in his life.
Well said and spot on.
Tariq is in John Lennon's film about the recording of Imagine.Discussing 'Crippled Inside' with him.
Thank you so much. This is very interesting.
In face of a deluge of hype about Oppenheimer, I now feel I desperately want a preview and an advance review of the movie by the two of you! At least an in-depth Q&A with Christopher (Dunkirk) Nolan.
Americans are raving ecstatically about 'Oppenheimer' who wasn't the leading physicist of the Manhattan Project but the coordinator of its highly secret programme. Not sure if the film even mentions the role of Enrico Fermi, Bohr, Heisenberg, Planck, Einstein in developing nuclear research.
Myself knowing so many crimes by our elite and their protection of reality I would be deeply skeptical about that and any film , the mainstream is purely propaganda for the masses , entertainment at best but will be far from the truth . For that reason I have no interest to watch .
I thank Tariq Ali to explain about the history and it was very interesting to me.
He didn't explain History at all !! Come on now ! . . . He delivered his own vicious, bitter and nasty fantasy of history . . . We must not be naive - it is dangerous