Hey everyone, lemme know what you thinks about these all. Please no hate speech or trolling [ Edit 1 - ya all started political warfare ] [ Edit 2 - guys no need for hate speech or trolling just because interest mismatch ] [Edit 3- maybe redditers arrived here] [Edit 4 - Gawd Too many haters]
I'm fine with Redot but I don't like its khaki brown interface, it looks too dark, I would have preferred a white color that would look better and would also be a symbol of purification of everything that has happened.
@@ThunderPlayStudios No it was great from the beginning. It's a project done right and still without the woke drama. A long journey has nothing to do with it.
@@Johan-rm6ec Blender is open source, and you can change it into a game engine if you want. There's nothing wrong with grabbing any FOSS and changing it to fit your needs. That's the good thing with free software, and 'free' as in freedom, not the price.
I see Redot as valid: based on Godot? Good. Remove all politics/social activism and stay neutral and just focus on the technology? Good. Give opportunity for high in demand but rejected PRs to be merged? Good. Possibly become competitors with Godot if it takes off? Good. But it will need to survive the first few years to prove it is sustainable. There is more than enough community surrounding it, just a matter of development resources.
"politics and social activism" and its just making fun of people like you. have fun with redot before it gets abandoned. as if its not just godot with a different logo.
@@IPlayKindred you're sort of right but actually it depends entirely on how far behind either project gets in development while bogged down with the controversy. there are a few cases where a clone was more successful than the original simply for developing faster or being more stable than the original and through that gaining new features over time. inversely of course i've also seen new projects born from controversy and failing later on when people stopped caring about the controversy and jumped to whichever was simply most popular. for myself of course i'm gonna look for something not related to either that's still open source.
All good points. We don't plan on going anywhere. We have a strong(10+) dev team and we most certainly will not just be a fork. We have a lot of things in the pipeline, they just require time.
For me, I will use whichever engine is better. I think Redot being forked from godot and created is a good thing why? Competition. It makes both stay on their toes to do better if Redot takes off and willing to keep their ambition going. Sure, I agree it doesnt have much effect on the people who just want to use a good engine and stay out of w/e twitter drama ensues, but it did sow distrust compare to before and it would make people be on guard whether will this happen again with Godot or worse? In the end of all of this, one of the Godot staff decide to go on an unhinged tantrum because of some people when they can simply ignore those people and none of this redot or any of this aftermath would have happened or the founder can simply take a stance that they would take responsibility for the action of the staff that started all this. However i heard they didnt really do anything about it other than saying the Xananax guy isnt part of their staff anymore?
But here's the thing, split of userbase decrease donations which slow down development, last thing the completely free softwares will need is lack of funding which may slow stuff down or downright end it, maybe only one will survive.
@@destarinc2902 And that's a great thing, whoever works hard to wanting to one up the other will eventually be the one surviving. That's the free market for you. Console War, Unreal Engine Vs Unity and West vs East Game Industry shows that. If one side is not gonna pick up the slack, someone will do it. Eventually the people will benefit from this is consumers.
It's just mess for some days later things will come back at track. I saw my this post was posted on reddit and some of Redot userbase came from that post
redot is already better. better community that actually answer needed questions about the engine and allow feedback. godot has been toxic and documentations is cluttered and unmanaged
One should keep in mind, that there's no guarantee that Redot (or any other engine for that matter) won't also become political in the future despite their promises right now. So it's not advisable to leave just for that reason alone. 🤔
After only like a week since "launching", they already started sort of political pandering (bumkissing Elon Musk's performative call for a gaming voter block, and posting that Redot itself has no problem with DEI as long as it isn't forced). The half of the community was like "hell yeah, based and redpilled!" and the other half was calling them out for going back on one of their core promises, that of remaining apolitical. They backpedaled because a good enough portion of users didn't like them getting political, but like you were saying, I personally wouldn't trust them to not try/do it again in the future. I don't get how it's such a hard concept to just not bring up politics on the official social media account of your work.
Well, I am going to see how it progresses before considering to change to Redot if it is worth it. If it is going to be worth it, I wonder how it will be? Aside from the team being apolitical and focusing exclusively on technical stuff. Will the development structures be different with Godot like having better ideas for features and having a more efficient approach to development that outperforms Godot? We will have to wait and see.
It is unfortunate that the godot community got split over trivial twitter drama but it is what it is. I will continue supporting godot because its the game engine that matters, not the tweets. I'll keep an eye on redot though to see if it turns out to be better and if it does ill support both. More FOSS is ultimately good for everyone in the end.
It wasn't just twitter drama. That was just the grain of sand that caused the avalanche. Or the more well known "straw that broke the camels back". Either way, This was to be expected even if this twitter drama didn't happen. Also, Personally I believe Godot has grown too big for it's own good.
I'm not affected by the drama but I have both installed, because as a dev and engineer (I don't feel like one but my fulltime job mockingly calls me that) I'm really interested in both engine's future. I already loved Godot, came to use it 3 months BEFORE the "Unity fiasko" and didn't look back. Not saying Unity is bad and I'm still following its news, Godot simply fits my needs better. And if the premise of Redot turns out to be even slightly true in the distant future - which is the bigger emphasis on stability and indie - I'm going for it. Until then, I can just use them interchangibly... and to be honest, even after that if their core remains the same as discussed in the team's live session. At the end of the day I'd just like to encourage anyone to try out gamedev if haven't before, don't let others' opinions make you missing out on this awesome hobby.
That's quite a nice insist. As things will cool down maybe they will require more advanced features than Godot in order to maintain development. It's my thoughts. As a dev if both have the same core then it's easy to change.
I'm not taking that desicion yet, Redot just have a few days existing compared to the time that Godot have, so it's obvious that redot will lack on several stuff, adding that the engine was pretty sude made in a rush only time will tell us if redot can keep the promise they made and suppass godot or if they wont be able to fulfill such promise and be in godot's shadow
Damn AI speech videos... either way, to be a bit objective, Redot - and I know it's an early release - somehow gets me much worse performance (about 30% less, maybe?) and this might just them using an outdated compiler or having accidentally changed some optimization flags, but maybe they were too eager merging some of the newest shiny things before Godot.
@@thygrrr it's just easier to use AI speech Lol. But it's twice as much work afterwards... And I've not compared performance yet but that sounds a reason
As of writing I just came back from this year's GodotCon in Berlin. I've met both there, the more progressive and the more conservative people. And let me tell you something about the people that I talked to at the GodotCon: No matter on what political side you were, we all understood quite well at the con. No beef whatsoever. I didn't even hear about the recent social media issues one single time, none of the con attendees I met did mention it only once. It just wasn't a topic at all. And here's why. Because it's just some bubble rising up, bursting again and that's it. It's a fart in the wind. It might stink for a second but that's it. The engine and the community are still about game development and being creative rather than any politics. Thus I can simply recommend to forget about all that political stuff that happened, about all that rant that happened in response. It's only a temporary thing, the whole woke/non-woke situation has no mid- or even long-term impact to Godot if you asked me. No one cares about that in the end. If the engine is great, then the engine is great and it's gonna be used by many. If its fork turns out to be better - well, so be it, many people will switch then. I personally count myself to the more conservative corner of the community. But I don't care too much about what happened there with the "wokot" tweet on X and its short-term consequences. Because as said it doesn't have any consequence in the long term. By the way, earlier this year I also chatted with Godot's community manager Nat on Discord because she DM'ed me. Haters seem to call her the evil mind behind that one X tweet. (I don't know because I don't have an X account.) However I can promise you, she's a nice girl. She also managed a lot for the GodotCon. She did a really great job. I might or I might not agree to her political views, it doesn't matter for me, though. I just don't care. Long story short… The engine is awesome. The community is awesome. I won't switch to Redot. Case closed. 😘👍
This is well written, and seems genuine, but even your milquetoast words trying to be nice about Nat could actually be your downfall, going by the standards that are now set. It actually took me ages to track the information down about their pronouns. Google did not want to give the information searching for "godot community manager" or "godot community manager pronouns". It wasn't until I remembered their screenname that I was able to find their various social profiles. They currently list their pronouns mostly as "she/they", but at some point this has changed because their github profile and TH-cam channel lists them as "she/her". And dealing with somebody who wears their politics up front and center like they do, misgendering is something that may matter deeply to them. Talking about them using she instead of they is probably not going to cross the line, but if you're in a discussion and have ruffled some feathers, using her, or naming them a girl, could be your one-way ticket out of the community. This is the problem when the ban hammer treats political infractions as an actionable offense.
I would have liked to give Godot a try, I won't anymore. Why? Well for me the people behind it don't come out as trustworthy. The way the people responsible replied to the issue of few mentally unstable kids powertripping and tried to blame it all on the understandably critical people showed that they have no spine. If Redot will take off I will definitely look into it but if not I'll find another option.
Can we just treat twitter as its own world that isn't real and doesn't affect ours? If I summaries the twitter drama, it was a bunch of assholes who got their ego bruised and fought against each other through blocking spree and insults. Typical twitter. What was the effects on the real world? None.
well actually, a few Godot backers and many users got banned from both the GitHub and Discord making them virtually unable to use the engine or contribute, the later google form they set up for unbanning was deliberately set to scrape unrelated user information when you opened it, and the reason this whole mess started was because a backer POLITELY asked if they can focus on the engine instead of on political posting in the reply to the Wokot post on TwiX. while TwiX is not a real place, the people who use it are, and real people suffered real damage from that unjust ban wave.
If I were a gamer, I could freely reject the woke agenda by not playing or even installing it. That's all! Easy, super easy! But I can't imagine a situation where a game developer is forced to make a woke game. a man will remain a man until he dies, and so will a woman. Destroying nature is not a 'difference,' but a major catastrophe. Better to switch to something sane.
redot has legs since they have stated it isnt going to be too far off from godot so that way they can incorporate fixes and features from it. Godot has 6 month old commit requests that havent been merged and redot seems to want to fix that. Redot having more of a focus on ease of use, UI fixes and getting new features first will make it a very attractive option even if its just a bleeding edge godot. but getting better online and console porting tools would definently make people interested
@@ThunderPlayStudios if they were replaced I'd be somewhat shocked considering Godot never chastised them for fracturing the community but in their apology seemed to have sided with them. But Godot is very slow at updates and is even slower implementing community fixes. I don't think this will change. But Redot being close to Godot means they can just borrow what is working then trying to harmonize 20 merge requests
I don't care about politics so I will continue to use Godot, there is no reason for me to switch. Redot even had their X account hacked, such a poor devs in security cannot be trusted at all.
Did my comments get deleted? I spent about an hour working on that. What a waste of time. It wasn't that wild a take was it? I thought I was being respectful. You invited opinions and then deleted them? Its not showing anywhere for me now or in my activity history? I dont know if this is a TH-cam hiccup or a moderation thing?
FOSS is somewhat political movement in itself. This focus on collaboration, sharing, and transparency can be seen as a political statement against top-down, centralized control systems. It promotes egalitarianism and collective action, which resonate with political ideologies like anarchism, socialism, and certain forms of democratic governance. My position is between Libertarian and Anarchism. I understand that a lot of people who have moved from Unity to Godot because of the runtime fee just want fair practices but not something that has a political view. Since Unity dropped the runtime fee, those developers can go back. Maybe the Godot Foundation handled things badly, but what do people expect from people who are attracted to FOSS projects like Godot? I'm not looking for political warfare either. Maybe the community manager shouldn't have used the term 'Woke' to describe a game engine. As for Redot, if they aren't offering anything that is different besides being apolitical, I don't see any reason to switch. Personally, I'm just getting ready to try Unity 6 before making a decision on what engine to use for my next project.
Well Godot was not just used for because it's free but also it's quite easy to learn for beginners. Tho I get your point. And it's good to see that way too
@@ThunderPlayStudios not only Godot, but Blender, Gimp, Inkscape, Audacity, and VLC are also FOSS products that I encourage people to use. Next thing you know, every game developer is developing on Linux. Probably not, but one can hope. 😉
This is not entirely true. And FOSS exists despite being in a mixed capitalist system like it is here in America. That's because it's a legal fight. Not necessarily a political one. It's not anarchism or socialism or whatever. It's a license that offers protection from other licenses and other legal shenanigans. For example, If a music producer was copyrighted or sued by this other music producer. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a political battle between the two. It's a legal one. Sure, It was probably a political battle to get the license made. But, When it's in use, It's not really political at all. It's words on a document essentially saying "This is protected from any legal shenanigans" or something like that.
@@nono-yw3tv "Many programmers are unhappy about the commercialization of system software" - from the GNU Manifesto, Richard Stallman Copyleft instead of copyright. I was born in 1969 and understand the origins of FOSS since I lived it. Since "political" means "relating to the government" and you insist that it is a "legal issue" that is only enforceable by the government, then you are arguing against yourself about your definitions, not mine.
Use it. Godot is still good for the time being. But mingle with Redot community instead and keep an eye on it development. Godot have no future if it keep being woke
@@ancy1205 I mean godot has been in the works for at least 10 years now and it's doing fine. It's development is a bit slow but what do you expect from a completely free and open source game development kit being worked on by a handful of people on their spare time? Most of the best upgrades to godot have happened in the last 4 years or so. Things that I never expected Godot to accomplish when I first started following the project did indeed get implemented. It just takes time.
oh.. don't worry, redot is going to be different alright...., if you read the github proposals and pr they are doing a mess (it's hilarious). cutting stuff for no reason is not the way if godot devs are not changing ship.. that's what is going to happen i don't condone the bs godot is doing in social media, but you need something more than anti-woke will to make anything
Don't hurry justified look at FireAlpaca and Medibang Paint was FireAlpaca lose to Medibang Paint? No, they've new features while MediBang Focus on manga making tool but doesn't mean FireAlpaca can't make manga they've a same tool but MediBang Paint is slightly different. So give Devs the time.
Can somebody tell me what even happened? What is this wokot thing ? I saw a lot of things about people being angry and stuff but sisnt quiet catch why haha
Haha okay interesting I think that a lot of people don't actually understand the meaning of the word woke if they got angry 🤣 Yeah the internet is getting way too stupid 🙄
is not hard to outshine memedot now that juan is gone, he was the one blocking the good pr's from being merged. in a month they could add a 3d terrain editor, fix the navigation system and make it work with the terrain and done, you have a more usefull engine already. but my prediction is this will be just another failure, like godot is.
I was going to give Gadot a try since I'm wanting to make a 3D game for a change. But all the left wing politics gave me pause for consideration. Especially when there have been numerous games recently that failed horribly that made left wing politics the focus of their games while creativity and entertainment took a back seat. I strongly suspect that if they were overtly right wing, regular people would still get burned out on it, no matter the politics but right now its the activists from the left that demand everything push a political agenda.
When I first heard of Redot, I immediately thought it's just 'the Bigot engine' or something. I don't care about politics. If Redot is better I'll use it. I like the logo and color. I'll use whichever is better.
@@ThunderPlayStudios I'm not in the Godot community and I don't really know what's going on. But is it really that bad? I wish they didn't have to split and just worked together.
"I don't care about politics." Then you might find the Redot community to be a great place as a big part of their premise is to ensure politics stay out of the community/official communications of the engine, unlike Godot, which has been pretty good overall but still has a definite political agenda it caters to, rather than staying neutral, like Redot.
@@GargoilXDdepends who you are and what you want from the engine and community. Godot has been rejecting a lot of PRs with features a fair portion of the community has been wanting but the dev team not willing to maintain. The engine's community also very obviously participates in social/political activism leaning to a particular side of politics rather than staying neutral and just focusing on the technology they're making. Recently they went on a banning spree they should have never done. GameFromScratch covers it very well.
The problem with Godot drama wasn't that they had political views or that they were supporting the LGBT community, but that they purposefully baited the chuds. That's fine to do if you make a video game, especially with political messaging, because you're probably completely immune to their bullshit if you do that. But if you make an engine, you have higher responsibilities, because you made a _component._ A _tool._ People use it to _make a living._ And those people now need to make a choice of either staying with Godot and being subjected to harassment from chuds, or switching to Redot and being harassed by libs instead - because one thing should be immediately clear, Redot is a failure in its very concept, because no matter how much the devs claim that they're apolitical, its very existence was a political move and they will permanently be associated with the far-right. It's a lose lose situation.
Well, Godot isn't a company it's just a tool being created by numbers of contributors and with different political views so things like this happen often in diversity.
".. will be asociated with far-right" By whom? Real word is not American politics where it's either one extreme or the other. Just because someone disagree with some of the aspects of one side, doesn't mean they are extremists for the other side.
@@Karak-_-Creating an entire now split of godot because of an lgbtq+ supportive tweet or moderation attempt on it will always make you look far right to many people. Even if the reason for it is because the tweet/moderation IS political and not because of HOW it's political. Maybe not everyone, but many
@@Gr4tte That was not the only reason. It was also because people were dissapointed by the state of Godot - lack of initiative and direction in leadership, PRs being ignored, and lack of community involvement in the development.
You got it completely confused, if you've been following this just a bit you'll know that Godot is a game engine, while Redot is a political statement.
Are you ok? Godot literally made a political statement and that's literally the reason Redot was made, to stay politically neutral. Are you just somehow clueless or just mad leftoid gaslighting and deceiving people?
No, Redot is Godot minus the extreme politics. Redot is apolitical and open to all. Godot is mass-banning users for having the wrong opinions, or even for just asking to leave the politics out and focus on development.
This would be the case if people hadn't been blocked on Github. Don't like people's opinions, want to force sexuality politics and block everyone who disagrees on some discord that nobody cares? Go ahead. Ban supporters and block them from contributing in Github? Kid you just started a politically motivated war.
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Hey everyone, lemme know what you thinks about these all. Please no hate speech or trolling
[ Edit 1 - ya all started political warfare ]
[ Edit 2 - guys no need for hate speech or trolling just because interest mismatch ]
[Edit 3- maybe redditers arrived here]
[Edit 4 - Gawd Too many haters]
I'm fine with Redot but I don't like its khaki brown interface, it looks too dark, I would have preferred a white color that would look better and would also be a symbol of purification of everything that has happened.
We need an Unity kind of engine but done like Blender.
Blender had a long journey.
@@ThunderPlayStudios No it was great from the beginning. It's a project done right and still without the woke drama. A long journey has nothing to do with it.
There is already Blender Game Engine called UPBGE also Range Engine
@@MrSoulast blender game engine was called armory I guess. It's been long time I've forgotten that name lol
@@Johan-rm6ec Blender is open source, and you can change it into a game engine if you want. There's nothing wrong with grabbing any FOSS and changing it to fit your needs. That's the good thing with free software, and 'free' as in freedom, not the price.
Godot will make more drama in time. Activist can't just be silent. And they don't mind burning good will.
I see Redot as valid: based on Godot? Good. Remove all politics/social activism and stay neutral and just focus on the technology? Good. Give opportunity for high in demand but rejected PRs to be merged? Good. Possibly become competitors with Godot if it takes off? Good. But it will need to survive the first few years to prove it is sustainable. There is more than enough community surrounding it, just a matter of development resources.
"politics and social activism" and its just making fun of people like you.
have fun with redot before it gets abandoned. as if its not just godot with a different logo.
The only community is a discordserver full of first timers and people who aren't interested in actually using it
@@IPlayKindred Stop dude, Godot already apologise, stop with dick-head attitude
@@IPlayKindred you're sort of right but actually it depends entirely on how far behind either project gets in development while bogged down with the controversy. there are a few cases where a clone was more successful than the original simply for developing faster or being more stable than the original and through that gaining new features over time. inversely of course i've also seen new projects born from controversy and failing later on when people stopped caring about the controversy and jumped to whichever was simply most popular. for myself of course i'm gonna look for something not related to either that's still open source.
All good points. We don't plan on going anywhere. We have a strong(10+) dev team and we most certainly will not just be a fork. We have a lot of things in the pipeline, they just require time.
For me, I will use whichever engine is better. I think Redot being forked from godot and created is a good thing why? Competition. It makes both stay on their toes to do better if Redot takes off and willing to keep their ambition going.
Sure, I agree it doesnt have much effect on the people who just want to use a good engine and stay out of w/e twitter drama ensues, but it did sow distrust compare to before and it would make people be on guard whether will this happen again with Godot or worse? In the end of all of this, one of the Godot staff decide to go on an unhinged tantrum because of some people when they can simply ignore those people and none of this redot or any of this aftermath would have happened or the founder can simply take a stance that they would take responsibility for the action of the staff that started all this. However i heard they didnt really do anything about it other than saying the Xananax guy isnt part of their staff anymore?
In short, competition is a way to better product
@@ThunderPlayStudios And it's great, but i can't say the same for other products where there isnt much competition like Photoshop.
But here's the thing, split of userbase decrease donations which slow down development, last thing the completely free softwares will need is lack of funding which may slow stuff down or downright end it, maybe only one will survive.
@@destarinc2902 And that's a great thing, whoever works hard to wanting to one up the other will eventually be the one surviving. That's the free market for you. Console War, Unreal Engine Vs Unity and West vs East Game Industry shows that. If one side is not gonna pick up the slack, someone will do it. Eventually the people will benefit from this is consumers.
It's just mess for some days later things will come back at track. I saw my this post was posted on reddit and some of Redot userbase came from that post
redot is already better. better community that actually answer needed questions about the engine and allow feedback. godot has been toxic and documentations is cluttered and unmanaged
They always start out with good intentions. Godot did too. It's a matter of time to see where the development of redot actually leads.
keep politics out of gaming. uninstalled godot.
And installed what
@@ThunderPlayStudiosredot
One should keep in mind, that there's no guarantee that Redot (or any other engine for that matter) won't also become political in the future despite their promises right now. So it's not advisable to leave just for that reason alone. 🤔
After only like a week since "launching", they already started sort of political pandering (bumkissing Elon Musk's performative call for a gaming voter block, and posting that Redot itself has no problem with DEI as long as it isn't forced).
The half of the community was like "hell yeah, based and redpilled!" and the other half was calling them out for going back on one of their core promises, that of remaining apolitical. They backpedaled because a good enough portion of users didn't like them getting political, but like you were saying, I personally wouldn't trust them to not try/do it again in the future.
I don't get how it's such a hard concept to just not bring up politics on the official social media account of your work.
Well, I am going to see how it progresses before considering to change to Redot if it is worth it.
If it is going to be worth it, I wonder how it will be? Aside from the team being apolitical and focusing exclusively on technical stuff. Will the development structures be different with Godot like having better ideas for features and having a more efficient approach to development that outperforms Godot?
We will have to wait and see.
yes either way whatever suits best for individuals,
It is unfortunate that the godot community got split over trivial twitter drama but it is what it is. I will continue supporting godot because its the game engine that matters, not the tweets.
I'll keep an eye on redot though to see if it turns out to be better and if it does ill support both. More FOSS is ultimately good for everyone in the end.
That's a way
It wasn't just twitter drama. That was just the grain of sand that caused the avalanche. Or the more well known "straw that broke the camels back". Either way, This was to be expected even if this twitter drama didn't happen. Also, Personally I believe Godot has grown too big for it's own good.
@@nono-yw3tv Perhaps. Luckily it isn't proprietary
Redot I want to be apolitical but why would I ever be on any side that consistently tries to cancel people they disagree with
Valid tho
I'm not affected by the drama but I have both installed, because as a dev and engineer (I don't feel like one but my fulltime job mockingly calls me that) I'm really interested in both engine's future. I already loved Godot, came to use it 3 months BEFORE the "Unity fiasko" and didn't look back. Not saying Unity is bad and I'm still following its news, Godot simply fits my needs better. And if the premise of Redot turns out to be even slightly true in the distant future - which is the bigger emphasis on stability and indie - I'm going for it. Until then, I can just use them interchangibly... and to be honest, even after that if their core remains the same as discussed in the team's live session. At the end of the day I'd just like to encourage anyone to try out gamedev if haven't before, don't let others' opinions make you missing out on this awesome hobby.
That's quite a nice insist. As things will cool down maybe they will require more advanced features than Godot in order to maintain development. It's my thoughts. As a dev if both have the same core then it's easy to change.
It is a great neutral perspective.
I'm not taking that desicion yet, Redot just have a few days existing compared to the time that Godot have, so it's obvious that redot will lack on several stuff, adding that the engine was pretty sude made in a rush
only time will tell us if redot can keep the promise they made and suppass godot or if they wont be able to fulfill such promise and be in godot's shadow
I agree, I also hope redot is able to suppass godot 👍
Damn AI speech videos... either way, to be a bit objective, Redot - and I know it's an early release - somehow gets me much worse performance (about 30% less, maybe?) and this might just them using an outdated compiler or having accidentally changed some optimization flags, but maybe they were too eager merging some of the newest shiny things before Godot.
@@thygrrr it's just easier to use AI speech Lol. But it's twice as much work afterwards...
And I've not compared performance yet but that sounds a reason
Are you comparing godot stable relase(4.3) with redot which use unstable atm 4.4 ?
As of writing I just came back from this year's GodotCon in Berlin. I've met both there, the more progressive and the more conservative people.
And let me tell you something about the people that I talked to at the GodotCon:
No matter on what political side you were, we all understood quite well at the con. No beef whatsoever. I didn't even hear about the recent social media issues one single time, none of the con attendees I met did mention it only once. It just wasn't a topic at all.
And here's why. Because it's just some bubble rising up, bursting again and that's it. It's a fart in the wind. It might stink for a second but that's it.
The engine and the community are still about game development and being creative rather than any politics. Thus I can simply recommend to forget about all that political stuff that happened, about all that rant that happened in response. It's only a temporary thing, the whole woke/non-woke situation has no mid- or even long-term impact to Godot if you asked me. No one cares about that in the end.
If the engine is great, then the engine is great and it's gonna be used by many. If its fork turns out to be better - well, so be it, many people will switch then.
I personally count myself to the more conservative corner of the community. But I don't care too much about what happened there with the "wokot" tweet on X and its short-term consequences. Because as said it doesn't have any consequence in the long term.
By the way, earlier this year I also chatted with Godot's community manager Nat on Discord because she DM'ed me. Haters seem to call her the evil mind behind that one X tweet. (I don't know because I don't have an X account.) However I can promise you, she's a nice girl. She also managed a lot for the GodotCon. She did a really great job. I might or I might not agree to her political views, it doesn't matter for me, though. I just don't care.
Long story short…
The engine is awesome. The community is awesome. I won't switch to Redot. Case closed.
😘👍
Thanks for your views on it.
😘
This is well written, and seems genuine, but even your milquetoast words trying to be nice about Nat could actually be your downfall, going by the standards that are now set. It actually took me ages to track the information down about their pronouns. Google did not want to give the information searching for "godot community manager" or "godot community manager pronouns". It wasn't until I remembered their screenname that I was able to find their various social profiles.
They currently list their pronouns mostly as "she/they", but at some point this has changed because their github profile and TH-cam channel lists them as "she/her".
And dealing with somebody who wears their politics up front and center like they do, misgendering is something that may matter deeply to them. Talking about them using she instead of they is probably not going to cross the line, but if you're in a discussion and have ruffled some feathers, using her, or naming them a girl, could be your one-way ticket out of the community.
This is the problem when the ban hammer treats political infractions as an actionable offense.
I would have liked to give Godot a try, I won't anymore. Why? Well for me the people behind it don't come out as trustworthy. The way the people responsible replied to the issue of few mentally unstable kids powertripping and tried to blame it all on the understandably critical people showed that they have no spine. If Redot will take off I will definitely look into it but if not I'll find another option.
As it should be.
Can we just treat twitter as its own world that isn't real and doesn't affect ours? If I summaries the twitter drama, it was a bunch of assholes who got their ego bruised and fought against each other through blocking spree and insults. Typical twitter.
What was the effects on the real world? None.
@@thecarvedfoxgames Fr, tell them!
well actually, a few Godot backers and many users got banned from both the GitHub and Discord making them virtually unable to use the engine or contribute, the later google form they set up for unbanning was deliberately set to scrape unrelated user information when you opened it, and the reason this whole mess started was because a backer POLITELY asked if they can focus on the engine instead of on political posting in the reply to the Wokot post on TwiX.
while TwiX is not a real place, the people who use it are, and real people suffered real damage from that unjust ban wave.
@@thecarvedfoxgames I feel like this is the political climate of the world right now. Can we go back to the good ole days of Coke vs Pepsi?
@@VoylesGames Manaos
@@NikoHinode Redot has a better chance of replacing Godot than Manaos has in replacing Coke
good video, thats exactly the issue and it really doesnt have competent developers backing it up
true!
The fact that political polarization has came to the point of game engines splitting is just sad.
Politics seem to pop up everywhere. Cloning due to opinions is not always a wise choice.
If I were a gamer, I could freely reject the woke agenda by not playing or even installing it. That's all! Easy, super easy!
But I can't imagine a situation where a game developer is forced to make a woke game.
a man will remain a man until he dies, and so will a woman. Destroying nature is not a 'difference,' but a major catastrophe. Better to switch to something sane.
redot has legs since they have stated it isnt going to be too far off from godot so that way they can incorporate fixes and features from it. Godot has 6 month old commit requests that havent been merged and redot seems to want to fix that. Redot having more of a focus on ease of use, UI fixes and getting new features first will make it a very attractive option even if its just a bleeding edge godot. but getting better online and console porting tools would definently make people interested
Heard that community manager who was holding those all pr is replaced so maybe we will see more frequent updates anyways
@@ThunderPlayStudios if they were replaced I'd be somewhat shocked considering Godot never chastised them for fracturing the community but in their apology seemed to have sided with them.
But Godot is very slow at updates and is even slower implementing community fixes. I don't think this will change. But Redot being close to Godot means they can just borrow what is working then trying to harmonize 20 merge requests
Let's see. Where these all things are going
If that is indeed what they focus on it willhave an edge over godot. However as of right now redot needs to prove itself.
I don't care about politics so I will continue to use Godot, there is no reason for me to switch. Redot even had their X account hacked, such a poor devs in security cannot be trusted at all.
Did my comments get deleted? I spent about an hour working on that. What a waste of time. It wasn't that wild a take was it? I thought I was being respectful. You invited opinions and then deleted them? Its not showing anywhere for me now or in my activity history? I dont know if this is a TH-cam hiccup or a moderation thing?
Hie. I didn't delete anything. Maybe if it contains certain words TH-cam might have hidden that.
Just the beauty of youtube overlords censorship.
@@andreww4751 or maybe text was so long it's marked as spam. That can be a reason tho
Nice man❣️🙌✨
Thanks man 🧓
FOSS is somewhat political movement in itself. This focus on collaboration, sharing, and transparency can be seen as a political statement against top-down, centralized control systems. It promotes egalitarianism and collective action, which resonate with political ideologies like anarchism, socialism, and certain forms of democratic governance. My position is between Libertarian and Anarchism. I understand that a lot of people who have moved from Unity to Godot because of the runtime fee just want fair practices but not something that has a political view. Since Unity dropped the runtime fee, those developers can go back. Maybe the Godot Foundation handled things badly, but what do people expect from people who are attracted to FOSS projects like Godot? I'm not looking for political warfare either. Maybe the community manager shouldn't have used the term 'Woke' to describe a game engine. As for Redot, if they aren't offering anything that is different besides being apolitical, I don't see any reason to switch. Personally, I'm just getting ready to try Unity 6 before making a decision on what engine to use for my next project.
Well Godot was not just used for because it's free but also it's quite easy to learn for beginners. Tho I get your point. And it's good to see that way too
@@ThunderPlayStudios not only Godot, but Blender, Gimp, Inkscape, Audacity, and VLC are also FOSS products that I encourage people to use. Next thing you know, every game developer is developing on Linux. Probably not, but one can hope. 😉
This is not entirely true. And FOSS exists despite being in a mixed capitalist system like it is here in America. That's because it's a legal fight. Not necessarily a political one. It's not anarchism or socialism or whatever. It's a license that offers protection from other licenses and other legal shenanigans.
For example, If a music producer was copyrighted or sued by this other music producer. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a political battle between the two. It's a legal one.
Sure, It was probably a political battle to get the license made. But, When it's in use, It's not really political at all. It's words on a document essentially saying "This is protected from any legal shenanigans" or something like that.
@@nono-yw3tv "Many programmers are unhappy about the commercialization of system software" - from the GNU Manifesto, Richard Stallman
Copyleft instead of copyright. I was born in 1969 and understand the origins of FOSS since I lived it. Since "political" means "relating to the government" and you insist that it is a "legal issue" that is only enforceable by the government, then you are arguing against yourself about your definitions, not mine.
I’m gonna go stick with redot
IMO for now there is no reazon to change engine middle of project. Time will tell with engine achieve better quality
Godot is a tool. I will continue to use it.
That's the only way to see it.
Use it. Godot is still good for the time being. But mingle with Redot community instead and keep an eye on it development. Godot have no future if it keep being woke
@@ancy1205 pretty sure companies like epic games will continue funding it. Godot will be fine for a while.
@@Johny9405 It's not just a funding problem. It's about work ethic and mindset. Plenty AAA woke game doesn't lack money pouring into them.
@@ancy1205 I mean godot has been in the works for at least 10 years now and it's doing fine. It's development is a bit slow but what do you expect from a completely free and open source game development kit being worked on by a handful of people on their spare time? Most of the best upgrades to godot have happened in the last 4 years or so. Things that I never expected Godot to accomplish when I first started following the project did indeed get implemented. It just takes time.
oh.. don't worry, redot is going to be different alright...., if you read the github proposals and pr they are doing a mess (it's hilarious). cutting stuff for no reason is not the way
if godot devs are not changing ship.. that's what is going to happen
i don't condone the bs godot is doing in social media, but you need something more than anti-woke will to make anything
Don't hurry justified look at FireAlpaca and Medibang Paint was FireAlpaca lose to Medibang Paint? No, they've new features while MediBang Focus on manga making tool but doesn't mean FireAlpaca can't make manga they've a same tool but MediBang Paint is slightly different. So give Devs the time.
Snowflakes in the comment alert
urrgh cant stand videos with AI voiceover
Not everyone's first language is English
Can somebody tell me what even happened? What is this wokot thing ? I saw a lot of things about people being angry and stuff but sisnt quiet catch why haha
That tweet was a joking response to someone saying "using a premade engine is woke" or something, and people got mad.
Welcome to internet
Haha okay interesting I think that a lot of people don't actually understand the meaning of the word woke if they got angry 🤣
Yeah the internet is getting way too stupid 🙄
What a tragically unnuaced and reductive explanation of what happened. Sad to see it.
is not hard to outshine memedot now that juan is gone, he was the one blocking the good pr's from being merged.
in a month they could add a 3d terrain editor, fix the navigation system and make it work with the terrain and done, you have a more usefull engine already.
but my prediction is this will be just another failure, like godot is.
Lmao
Juan is still actively developing godot, just got off twitter for good reasons.
I was going to give Gadot a try since I'm wanting to make a 3D game for a change. But all the left wing politics gave me pause for consideration. Especially when there have been numerous games recently that failed horribly that made left wing politics the focus of their games while creativity and entertainment took a back seat. I strongly suspect that if they were overtly right wing, regular people would still get burned out on it, no matter the politics but right now its the activists from the left that demand everything push a political agenda.
Ignore politics and choose your own path.
Redot kinda reminds me when Musk bought Twitter to make it "political unbiased"...
Make political... But unbiased
❤
🤖
When I first heard of Redot, I immediately thought it's just 'the Bigot engine' or something. I don't care about politics. If Redot is better I'll use it. I like the logo and color. I'll use whichever is better.
At the end what works for you that matters
@@ThunderPlayStudios I'm not in the Godot community and I don't really know what's going on. But is it really that bad? I wish they didn't have to split and just worked together.
"I don't care about politics." Then you might find the Redot community to be a great place as a big part of their premise is to ensure politics stay out of the community/official communications of the engine, unlike Godot, which has been pretty good overall but still has a definite political agenda it caters to, rather than staying neutral, like Redot.
@@GargoilXDdepends who you are and what you want from the engine and community. Godot has been rejecting a lot of PRs with features a fair portion of the community has been wanting but the dev team not willing to maintain. The engine's community also very obviously participates in social/political activism leaning to a particular side of politics rather than staying neutral and just focusing on the technology they're making. Recently they went on a banning spree they should have never done. GameFromScratch covers it very well.
@@kiyasuihitokinda difficult to stay out of politics by using the engine that is made specifically due to politics and has a heavy conservative bias.
Its funny that some people split off of a community over something this irrelevant.
And I indeed want them to come back as it was before this drama.
i just checked and redot hasn't had a single commit for two weeks. i dont think this will split anything
Snowflakes... Snowflakes, everywhere...
It was relevant to the people who were banned who were paying for and working on the project. If they banned anyone else, nothing would have happened.
The problem with Godot drama wasn't that they had political views or that they were supporting the LGBT community, but that they purposefully baited the chuds. That's fine to do if you make a video game, especially with political messaging, because you're probably completely immune to their bullshit if you do that. But if you make an engine, you have higher responsibilities, because you made a _component._ A _tool._ People use it to _make a living._ And those people now need to make a choice of either staying with Godot and being subjected to harassment from chuds, or switching to Redot and being harassed by libs instead - because one thing should be immediately clear, Redot is a failure in its very concept, because no matter how much the devs claim that they're apolitical, its very existence was a political move and they will permanently be associated with the far-right. It's a lose lose situation.
so you think everyone that do not like drama are chuds? L take 👎
Well, Godot isn't a company it's just a tool being created by numbers of contributors and with different political views so things like this happen often in diversity.
".. will be asociated with far-right"
By whom?
Real word is not American politics where it's either one extreme or the other. Just because someone disagree with some of the aspects of one side, doesn't mean they are extremists for the other side.
@@Karak-_-Creating an entire now split of godot because of an lgbtq+ supportive tweet or moderation attempt on it will always make you look far right to many people. Even if the reason for it is because the tweet/moderation IS political and not because of HOW it's political.
Maybe not everyone, but many
@@Gr4tte That was not the only reason. It was also because people were dissapointed by the state of Godot - lack of initiative and direction in leadership, PRs being ignored, and lack of community involvement in the development.
You got it completely confused, if you've been following this just a bit you'll know that Godot is a game engine, while Redot is a political statement.
Are you ok? Godot literally made a political statement and that's literally the reason Redot was made, to stay politically neutral. Are you just somehow clueless or just mad leftoid gaslighting and deceiving people?
Godot is a engine, except for the mass banning of paid users who asked them to focus on the engine, and leave politics out.
No, Redot is Godot minus the extreme politics. Redot is apolitical and open to all. Godot is mass-banning users for having the wrong opinions, or even for just asking to leave the politics out and focus on development.
Give it some times. Maybe things will settle down. Lol
This would be the case if people hadn't been blocked on Github. Don't like people's opinions, want to force sexuality politics and block everyone who disagrees on some discord that nobody cares? Go ahead. Ban supporters and block them from contributing in Github? Kid you just started a politically motivated war.