Another related option is "semi-retired". As an example, after I retired from AD USAF I got a job as a CPR instructor. I teach less than 40 hours per week. I largely control where and when I teach and often have a few days off between classes. With my retirement and VA disability pay I am able to enjoy my retirement in relative comfort.
I like the idea of teaching. It's a great way to grow the next generation. And CPR is one of those highly noble subjects...How many people will live because you dedicated your time in this way? More than you will ever know.
Thanks. I hated the Army too (and that 18 year old who got me into it). But I also loved the people. Even the "big bosses" who tried so hard to make things better although inevitably perpetuating some kind of misery.
@@the_bureaucrat yes great people, and many great leaders too. Hard to stomach the costs of the GWOT with no “victory”. Victory was a word I never heard a senior leader say, and I never used it either. Thanks for what you do to inform and take care of soldiers and veterans.
@@the_bureaucratthis. Grew to hate the Army and its petty BS and self-serving leaders. But I never lost my love of Soldiers, even as I poke fun of the edict to capitalize that word. Staying focused on Soldiers kept me grounded and sane. It still does in my life as a grumpy contractor dealing with GS types, most all of whom thought they were too good to enlist.
Gentlemen of Leisure, In my experience as a retired O5, I’ve noticed a higher concentration of these unique individuals within the Acquisition Corps compared to other branches (especially combat arms). No other branch places such a strong emphasis on developing the skills needed to oversee multiple projects, manage teams, handle budgets, and align objectives. Within contracting, we also focus heavily on negotiating and managing vendor contracts, ensuring legal compliance, and maintaining cost-effectiveness. Both of these roles require leadership, communication, and problem-solving skills-qualities that transition seamlessly into the Gentlemen of Leisure lifestyle. Many of us, myself included, planned for this lifestyle years before retirement, and we are relishing every moment of it.
That's all true and I'd add that as a functional area, Acquisition Corps likely attracts people who have a long term view. In the Operations Research community, we accumulated similarly minded people. The funny thing was that while many COULD have become gentlemen of leisure, a remarkable number kept working simply because work gave them so much satisfaction. I opted for "working" as a TH-camr.
So happy to hear that you made people think about their finances and how they COULD love after military retirement if they were financially independent.
If you really want to maximize your retirement enlisted have an option nobody takes. Simply apply for the Armed Forces Retirement Home (either the Washington, D.C. campus or the Gulfport, Mississippi campus) 50% of your gross income and it includes room, meals, and utilities. Not only no need for employment but also no household or homeowner chore beyond cleaning your room and doing your laundry. And you’re free to take leave to travel or for whatever other purpose. POV Parking provided and rides to medical appointments. Plus an in house gym, pool, golf, theater, exchange, barber, etc.
Yes. Especially since every enlisted member has a mandatory 50¢ deduction from his/her pay every month to support these homes as well as all forfeitures under Article 15 are directed into these homes. The scenario I have was never their intent but it is a possibility. The Washington campus began as “The Old Soldiers Home” and the Gulfport campus began as “The Old Sailors Home” long, long ago but they’ve evolved into something so much more.
If you are single. I don't think they take married couples. Unless something has changed. These are notoriously difficult to get accepted into, but I've let my family know that I would seek the Gulfport Retirement home if my wife passes. It really is a good deal. They also (at least used to) have good woodworking shops which means I could continue my primary hobby.
@@oldtop4682 It depends. Yes they also take couple IF! If both members qualify own their own. They don’t take dependent spouses. That’s one of the questions on the “Frequently Asked Questions” page on their website.
@@santamanone Interesting. I'll check out their site later today. The wife is a vet, but not retired. Doesn't apply to us I suspect, but hey I know plenty of dual retiree couples!
I knew 2 people, one Navy and one Army, who really didn’t need to work after they retired from the military. One was a Navy dentist. I believe he retired as a Lieutenant Commander (O-4). He bought real estate at every duty station he was assigned to. At his retirement party, I asked him if he was going to go into private practice and he said that he had looked into his last mouth. I asked if his retirement was enough for that to happen and he laughed. He told me about the real estate and how all of his properties had at least kept their value and were generating income but that his properties in San Diego and Hawaii had skyrocketed in value. He was truly retired when he retired from the Navy. The other person I knew was my former brother-in-law. He was drafted into the Army when he was 18 and became a medic. He said as he watched what the doctors were doing he realized he could do what they were doing. He stayed in the Army and got his college degree and eventually became a Physician’s Assistant. He became a warrant officer and, eventually, a commissioned officer. He was part of a revamp of the Army’s PA program and, as part of that, became a professor for the University of Texas. Throughout his Army career, he also stayed active as UT professor. He retired as a Major with 30 years of service back around 2010. About a year later, he retired as a professor of the University of Texas and he mentioned that he was on their old retirement plan. He told me that two pensions he was receiving were about the same, around $5k each per month. Yes, he could have retired and done nothing but he was a workaholic so he was working as an ER PA making a 6 figure income. All of both of his pensions were going into investments. I just found out that he passed away a couple years ago. I don’t know if he ever really retired but I think he had at least started slowing down before he passed.
You know what's fascinating about these two examples? They set their sights on "living the dream" long before they retired and made strategic decisions in their career to steer in the right direction.
Great job on these videos. Really enjoy them and your sense of humor. Thanks! I am now a “gentleman of leisure”. It all started as a LT when I was asked to join an investment club. Periodic savings, conservative investing and working hard in your early years are the keys to enter this life. Oh do not forget having a supportive spouse is probably the biggest key of all. We have always worked as a team even though she hated the military. Throughout my military career I made lifestyle choices rather than career choices and planned from day one to retire at 20 years so while in the military I planned my next career.
Ah the secret investment that makes everything else work out...the supportive spouse. A supportive spouse makes PCSing, Investing, Hard Jobs, Specialize Training...they make it all possible.
I’m an involuntary “gentleman of leisure”. It took getting laid-off during covid lock-down, a stay in a psychiatric facility, and getting my VA and retirement benefits properly sorted out to reach this point. I completely agree with the position that I have the means to be more selective with how and with whom I spend my time. If I maintain my current non-working state, I will never be wealthy but I will never be poor.
It's interesting that someone could "involuntarily" become a gentleman on leisure. I mean, when you think about it...it can happen to anyone, but plenty of folks don't consider it.
My better half and I are simply blessed to be "Gentlepersons of Leisure" as retirees. My wife would tell me even as a LT that she was "getting out of the Army" and did for many, many years but I told her to hang in there - the first time her retirement pay was deposited bank she came up to me and thanked me! ;-)
I believe I've met this track and didnt even know it was a thing. The key thing about it is just living within your means. I dont live high on the hog but dont worry about pinching every penny either. Keeping a balance let's me enjoy life and not feel like I must give up my freedom to go out and get a slave job just to get by.
Gentleman of Leisure! That's me, living the dream. You just made a video of what I'm doing every day! One surprise was no Roth IRA contributions unless you have $7K in earned income to report.
I stumbled on this option just in the loathing of doing 52 hours of TAP training. Persistent deployments helped as well with the expectation management.
I might have had a similar experience...sitting in TAP...Angry at my boss...Frustrated by my work...P**sed Off at the clumsy briefing. Every "jobby job" sounded about as fun as eating clay.
Maybe Ladies who Lunch. But the key issues to consider which get subsumed by employment and surface with a sense of leisure class membership are also about community involvement, style, and other non-market values.
You raise an important and tricky point about community involvement. In uniform, the unit provides a significant amount of community. Even at headquarter or the Pentagon, the common cause of the folks in the office binds them together. But Living the Dream can also come with isolation.
Don't forget an investment plan early in your career, so when retirement comes you have a pile of your own money. Pensions and payments ate wonderful, but start young so you also have a pile of money.
So I was in Federal Law Enforcement for 32 years. We must retire early, we can retire as early as our 40’s and cannot stay past 57. For me this was much too early to stop working so I returned to school and obtained a new skill set. I am a National Registry Paramedic, I work as a medic two to three times a week, teach at a college in the paramedic program, teach some firearms classes and work part time for an international corporation doing executive protection. My goal is to have control over 90% of my schedule. It is quite frankly wonderful. If I don’t want to work for two weeks I don’t. I love everything that I do, and if something becomes too stressful, I take a break or quit. I’m 64 now, and enjoy everything so much my plan is to keep going until I can’t anymore. Then I have some volunteer work in my sights and of course travel. It’s amazing how liberating work can be, when you don’t need it and have control over it. The biggest unknown is my health, if I can maintain that, I’m blessed.
I think you are hitting on a key dimension of this puzzle. Control of your own schedule. It doesn't really matter if you "work" or not. In fact, it's almost impossible not to do some kind of "work" (honey-do lists being what they are). But can you control the work? And if you can...you win!
@@the_bureaucrat yes sir, totally agree. It’s an interesting psychological phenomenon, there are days I wake up early and wonder why I’m still working, but the mere fact that I don’t have to makes all the difference. After I get to work I’m completely happy and glad I’m still working. The day that changes, I will fully retire. One other point, when I reached eligibility to retire at 49, it was like weight was lifted off my shoulders. My career became much lighter.
Why not? I joined age 19 in 1985. I always had actual retirement, not just changing jobs, age 55 as a goal. I commissioned after 6 years and retired age 53. I would say lifestyle choices are the predominant factor in determining when you can retire. Some of my recruit school buddies also did well without commissioning. Some purchased a house wherever they were posted and and didn't sell when they were reassigned. As a result, some of them were well off landlords after 20 years. That's not for everyone as it has its own set of challenges, but it's an example of how personal choices influence the far future.
That is not necessarily true. Savvy NCOs retire well every year. An E8 with 20 years of service will earn ~$2,500 a month after taxes. If they were smart enough to invest during their career they can potentially have an investment portfolio worth $200k. (That's $300 a month invested at a 9% return for 20 years OR a one time dump into the TSP during a deployment as an E4 - $25,000 - during a 12 month deployment - and $100 a month for the rest of their career at 9% return.) Using the 4% rule that can earn them an extra $600 a month. If that NCO is smart enough to retire in a flyover Red state they can afford to live on that. They won't be living high on the hog but it can be done. For example, the Oklahoma average cost of living is $38,000 per year so they'd be ~$70 a month short. If they have any VA disability that can put them over the top. (10% = $171.23 a month, non taxable). I've known senior NCOs with considerably more assets, rank, and time in service. Sometimes NCOs leverage a VA loan for a home at a duty station, fulfill the occupation requirements during their tour, PCS, rent it out, use the rent to pay the rest of the mortgage, buy another home at their next duty station, rinse, repeat over their career. I've also known crazy permanent E6s who lived like spartans. As long as they had a forest with game and a rifle with ammo to retire to they'd be happy as hell. BTW, a what makes an officer an officer is a 4 year college degree, an officer school and a commission from Congress. The degree is easily obtainable by an NCO. I've known NCOs with multiple _useful_ college degrees (and many officers with useless ones). The schools can be great or crap, depending. Actual real world NCO experience is often better. Congress just endorses your character with special trust. Which is like having your Christian piety endorsed by a Renaissance Pope. The longer you buy into the bitterness of being enlisted the longer officers not fit to chase stray dogs will have something over you.
I argue that NCOs actually have an easier time with this when you account for VA disability payments (th-cam.com/video/fC-bafkmYVo/w-d-xo.html). Since VA payments aren't based on rank, they represent a larger percentage of expenses for NCOs. Plus, many LTC & COL families are living at or beyond their means...trying to tamp down those expenses can be almost impossible. But an SFC whose spouse is responsible with money...they are already under control.
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 พฤศจิกายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wPd7VFfWHIA/mqdefault.jpg)
Another related option is "semi-retired". As an example, after I retired from AD USAF I got a job as a CPR instructor. I teach less than 40 hours per week. I largely control where and when I teach and often have a few days off between classes. With my retirement and VA disability pay I am able to enjoy my retirement in relative comfort.
I like the idea of teaching. It's a great way to grow the next generation. And CPR is one of those highly noble subjects...How many people will live because you dedicated your time in this way? More than you will ever know.
I grew to hate the army and what I saw happen to people I cared about, but I absolutely love your videos and your take on things.
Thanks. I hated the Army too (and that 18 year old who got me into it). But I also loved the people. Even the "big bosses" who tried so hard to make things better although inevitably perpetuating some kind of misery.
@@the_bureaucrat yes great people, and many great leaders too. Hard to stomach the costs of the GWOT with no “victory”. Victory was a word I never heard a senior leader say, and I never used it either. Thanks for what you do to inform and take care of soldiers and veterans.
@@the_bureaucratthis. Grew to hate the Army and its petty BS and self-serving leaders. But I never lost my love of Soldiers, even as I poke fun of the edict to capitalize that word. Staying focused on Soldiers kept me grounded and sane. It still does in my life as a grumpy contractor dealing with GS types, most all of whom thought they were too good to enlist.
Gentlemen of Leisure,
In my experience as a retired O5, I’ve noticed a higher concentration of these unique individuals within the Acquisition Corps compared to other branches (especially combat arms). No other branch places such a strong emphasis on developing the skills needed to oversee multiple projects, manage teams, handle budgets, and align objectives. Within contracting, we also focus heavily on negotiating and managing vendor contracts, ensuring legal compliance, and maintaining cost-effectiveness. Both of these roles require leadership, communication, and problem-solving skills-qualities that transition seamlessly into the Gentlemen of Leisure lifestyle. Many of us, myself included, planned for this lifestyle years before retirement, and we are relishing every moment of it.
That's all true and I'd add that as a functional area, Acquisition Corps likely attracts people who have a long term view. In the Operations Research community, we accumulated similarly minded people. The funny thing was that while many COULD have become gentlemen of leisure, a remarkable number kept working simply because work gave them so much satisfaction. I opted for "working" as a TH-camr.
@@the_bureaucrat I'm glad you are "working" as a TH-camr. Your content brings tremendous value to our community. Thank you sir!
So happy to hear that you made people think about their finances and how they COULD love after military retirement if they were financially independent.
I like the way you put it. One thing I used to say was that "if you want to care about people, you have to care about their future"
If you really want to maximize your retirement enlisted have an option nobody takes. Simply apply for the Armed Forces Retirement Home (either the Washington, D.C. campus or the Gulfport, Mississippi campus) 50% of your gross income and it includes room, meals, and utilities. Not only no need for employment but also no household or homeowner chore beyond cleaning your room and doing your laundry. And you’re free to take leave to travel or for whatever other purpose. POV Parking provided and rides to medical appointments. Plus an in house gym, pool, golf, theater, exchange, barber, etc.
@santamanone...I gotta check this out. I'm working my way thru the different VA programs and this sounds like an important one to look at.
Yes. Especially since every enlisted member has a mandatory 50¢ deduction from his/her pay every month to support these homes as well as all forfeitures under Article 15 are directed into these homes. The scenario I have was never their intent but it is a possibility. The Washington campus began as “The Old Soldiers Home” and the Gulfport campus began as “The Old Sailors Home” long, long ago but they’ve evolved into something so much more.
If you are single. I don't think they take married couples. Unless something has changed. These are notoriously difficult to get accepted into, but I've let my family know that I would seek the Gulfport Retirement home if my wife passes. It really is a good deal. They also (at least used to) have good woodworking shops which means I could continue my primary hobby.
@@oldtop4682 It depends. Yes they also take couple IF! If both members qualify own their own. They don’t take dependent spouses. That’s one of the questions on the “Frequently Asked Questions” page on their website.
@@santamanone Interesting. I'll check out their site later today. The wife is a vet, but not retired. Doesn't apply to us I suspect, but hey I know plenty of dual retiree couples!
I knew 2 people, one Navy and one Army, who really didn’t need to work after they retired from the military. One was a Navy dentist. I believe he retired as a Lieutenant Commander (O-4). He bought real estate at every duty station he was assigned to. At his retirement party, I asked him if he was going to go into private practice and he said that he had looked into his last mouth. I asked if his retirement was enough for that to happen and he laughed. He told me about the real estate and how all of his properties had at least kept their value and were generating income but that his properties in San Diego and Hawaii had skyrocketed in value. He was truly retired when he retired from the Navy. The other person I knew was my former brother-in-law. He was drafted into the Army when he was 18 and became a medic. He said as he watched what the doctors were doing he realized he could do what they were doing. He stayed in the Army and got his college degree and eventually became a Physician’s Assistant. He became a warrant officer and, eventually, a commissioned officer. He was part of a revamp of the Army’s PA program and, as part of that, became a professor for the University of Texas. Throughout his Army career, he also stayed active as UT professor. He retired as a Major with 30 years of service back around 2010. About a year later, he retired as a professor of the University of Texas and he mentioned that he was on their old retirement plan. He told me that two pensions he was receiving were about the same, around $5k each per month. Yes, he could have retired and done nothing but he was a workaholic so he was working as an ER PA making a 6 figure income. All of both of his pensions were going into investments. I just found out that he passed away a couple years ago. I don’t know if he ever really retired but I think he had at least started slowing down before he passed.
You know what's fascinating about these two examples? They set their sights on "living the dream" long before they retired and made strategic decisions in their career to steer in the right direction.
Great job on these videos. Really enjoy them and your sense of humor. Thanks!
I am now a “gentleman of leisure”. It all started as a LT when I was asked to join an investment club. Periodic savings, conservative investing and working hard in your early years are the keys to enter this life. Oh do not forget having a supportive spouse is probably the biggest key of all. We have always worked as a team even though she hated the military. Throughout my military career I made lifestyle choices rather than career choices and planned from day one to retire at 20 years so while in the military I planned my next career.
Ah the secret investment that makes everything else work out...the supportive spouse. A supportive spouse makes PCSing, Investing, Hard Jobs, Specialize Training...they make it all possible.
I’m an involuntary “gentleman of leisure”. It took getting laid-off during covid lock-down, a stay in a psychiatric facility, and getting my VA and retirement benefits properly sorted out to reach this point. I completely agree with the position that I have the means to be more selective with how and with whom I spend my time. If I maintain my current non-working state, I will never be wealthy but I will never be poor.
It's interesting that someone could "involuntarily" become a gentleman on leisure. I mean, when you think about it...it can happen to anyone, but plenty of folks don't consider it.
I love the “business of you” concept.
That's why so many people have "Stone on Nat Sec LLC".
I highly recommend this track. I love it!
Ha ha...GentlemanJack!
My better half and I are simply blessed to be "Gentlepersons of Leisure" as retirees. My wife would tell me even as a LT that she was "getting out of the Army" and did for many, many years but I told her to hang in there - the first time her retirement pay was deposited bank she came up to me and thanked me! ;-)
That is a common sentiment. Glad to hear you persevered as a dual military family...no small feat.
Well done Chuck.
Thanks, @wolfhound45.
I believe I've met this track and didnt even know it was a thing. The key thing about it is just living within your means. I dont live high on the hog but dont worry about pinching every penny either. Keeping a balance let's me enjoy life and not feel like I must give up my freedom to go out and get a slave job just to get by.
@RoyatAvalonFarms...I knew you were this guy the first time we talked. And as you say, the "trick" is fairly simple.
Thank you for putting into words what I seemed to have defaulted into. This clarifies what I need to do.
You're welcome. Best of luck.
Gentleman of Leisure! That's me, living the dream. You just made a video of what I'm doing every day! One surprise was no Roth IRA contributions unless you have $7K in earned income to report.
That's interesting. I gotta think about that one.
I stumbled on this option just in the loathing of doing 52 hours of TAP training. Persistent deployments helped as well with the expectation management.
I might have had a similar experience...sitting in TAP...Angry at my boss...Frustrated by my work...P**sed Off at the clumsy briefing. Every "jobby job" sounded about as fun as eating clay.
Maybe Ladies who Lunch. But the key issues to consider which get subsumed by employment and surface with a sense of leisure class membership are also about community involvement, style, and other non-market values.
You raise an important and tricky point about community involvement. In uniform, the unit provides a significant amount of community. Even at headquarter or the Pentagon, the common cause of the folks in the office binds them together. But Living the Dream can also come with isolation.
Don't forget an investment plan early in your career, so when retirement comes you have a pile of your own money. Pensions and payments ate wonderful, but start young so you also have a pile of money.
Starting young is key...Personally, starting as a young Captain gave me time to make mistakes and adjust my strategy.
So I was in Federal Law Enforcement for 32 years. We must retire early, we can retire as early as our 40’s and cannot stay past 57. For me this was much too early to stop working so I returned to school and obtained a new skill set. I am a National Registry Paramedic, I work as a medic two to three times a week, teach at a college in the paramedic program, teach some firearms classes and work part time for an international corporation doing executive protection. My goal is to have control over 90% of my schedule. It is quite frankly wonderful. If I don’t want to work for two weeks I don’t. I love everything that I do, and if something becomes too stressful, I take a break or quit. I’m 64 now, and enjoy everything so much my plan is to keep going until I can’t anymore. Then I have some volunteer work in my sights and of course travel. It’s amazing how liberating work can be, when you don’t need it and have control over it. The biggest unknown is my health, if I can maintain that, I’m blessed.
I think you are hitting on a key dimension of this puzzle. Control of your own schedule. It doesn't really matter if you "work" or not. In fact, it's almost impossible not to do some kind of "work" (honey-do lists being what they are). But can you control the work? And if you can...you win!
@@the_bureaucrat yes sir, totally agree. It’s an interesting psychological phenomenon, there are days I wake up early and wonder why I’m still working, but the mere fact that I don’t have to makes all the difference. After I get to work I’m completely happy and glad I’m still working. The day that changes, I will fully retire. One other point, when I reached eligibility to retire at 49, it was like weight was lifted off my shoulders. My career became much lighter.
NCO's do not need to watch this...Gentleman of Leisure, LOL😆😄🤪
I was just thinking the same thing. 🤣
Why not? I joined age 19 in 1985. I always had actual retirement, not just changing jobs, age 55 as a goal. I commissioned after 6 years and retired age 53. I would say lifestyle choices are the predominant factor in determining when you can retire.
Some of my recruit school buddies also did well without commissioning. Some purchased a house wherever they were posted and and didn't sell when they were reassigned. As a result, some of them were well off landlords after 20 years. That's not for everyone as it has its own set of challenges, but it's an example of how personal choices influence the far future.
That is not necessarily true. Savvy NCOs retire well every year. An E8 with 20 years of service will earn ~$2,500 a month after taxes. If they were smart enough to invest during their career they can potentially have an investment portfolio worth $200k. (That's $300 a month invested at a 9% return for 20 years OR a one time dump into the TSP during a deployment as an E4 - $25,000 - during a 12 month deployment - and $100 a month for the rest of their career at 9% return.) Using the 4% rule that can earn them an extra $600 a month. If that NCO is smart enough to retire in a flyover Red state they can afford to live on that.
They won't be living high on the hog but it can be done. For example, the Oklahoma average cost of living is $38,000 per year so they'd be ~$70 a month short. If they have any VA disability that can put them over the top. (10% = $171.23 a month, non taxable). I've known senior NCOs with considerably more assets, rank, and time in service. Sometimes NCOs leverage a VA loan for a home at a duty station, fulfill the occupation requirements during their tour, PCS, rent it out, use the rent to pay the rest of the mortgage, buy another home at their next duty station, rinse, repeat over their career. I've also known crazy permanent E6s who lived like spartans. As long as they had a forest with game and a rifle with ammo to retire to they'd be happy as hell.
BTW, a what makes an officer an officer is a 4 year college degree, an officer school and a commission from Congress. The degree is easily obtainable by an NCO. I've known NCOs with multiple _useful_ college degrees (and many officers with useless ones). The schools can be great or crap, depending. Actual real world NCO experience is often better. Congress just endorses your character with special trust. Which is like having your Christian piety endorsed by a Renaissance Pope. The longer you buy into the bitterness of being enlisted the longer officers not fit to chase stray dogs will have something over you.
I argue that NCOs actually have an easier time with this when you account for VA disability payments (th-cam.com/video/fC-bafkmYVo/w-d-xo.html). Since VA payments aren't based on rank, they represent a larger percentage of expenses for NCOs.
Plus, many LTC & COL families are living at or beyond their means...trying to tamp down those expenses can be almost impossible. But an SFC whose spouse is responsible with money...they are already under control.
@@the_bureaucrat You are assuming that all retired NCOs are receiving VA disability payments?