Shame they left out the bit inmediatly after, where Joker stops Batman from disarming the explosives. "No! Don't spoil it, this is better! I'm the only one who's going to get what he wants tonight! Yes! Big-Bang-Boom! We all go out together! Don't you just love a happy ending?"
I like to add something about Batman's moral code i think he's right. I was always obsessed between the no kill or kill rule i noticed the people who crossed the line in other universe's never came back Light Yagami(Kira), Niko Bellic, The Punisher, Spawn Al Simmon's, Alucard all have tragic past just like Batman and Bats walk's the line between Hero, Anti Hero and Villain. As my understanding reading all of reason's of not killing his first reason is it always start's with one what he means by this it's an addiction similiar to smoking, drug's or alcohol . Light Yagami started with 1 at first he was shocked and felt guilt but later he justified his action's saying it was for the greater good. Then 2 reason of not killing is not beacuse is not what his parent's would have wanted the loved one's of Niko Bellic and Punisher are gonna be dissapointed that they turned into a monster Roman: You have to move on all these killing's and violence need to end. Maria: My husband died in Central Park along with his family, all you are is The Punisher, i saw what you did . In the name of our Children. Batman 3rd reason is he won't stop killing Alucard and Spawn they both have demonic appearance's and which make the quote the road to hell is paved with good intention's more literal. They are both consumed by revenge and let it destroy them. similiar to what Batman said to Rachel in Batman Begin's . Rachel: I said some bad thing's to you. Bruce: but true thing's, Justice is about more than revenge. I was a coward with a gun so in a way you thank you. Okay i'm gonna end the comment here i think i dragged long enough .I always found Batman a fascinating character but wheter he is right or wrong is up to debate.
@@Resident4Island beautifully said man, i never thought of it that way. I would throw in Sasuke Uchiha 2. After he killed itachi he was never the same. Thankfully he had Naruto but even to this day he regrets his actions.
This is why this version of Jason is the best. He isn't angry at Batman for not saving him. He doesn't believe Batman forgot him. He loves Bruce, and he will always love Bruce. He just doesn't understand why he didn't kill Joker, and that's it. I always lament anyone who genuinely believes Jason hates Batman or is just a murdering machine, because he simply is not. He is just a broken boy.
@@littlevoidboi2111kinda like how in the warrior cats Fandom ferncloud a speckled gray queen known for staying in the nursery was killed because the Fandom wanted her to die because they thought she was useless. I hate people.
“And then one with the crowbar!” Even though the Joker’s identity is supposed to be an antithesis to Batman’s hyper moral, stoic, austere identity; he’s also just naturally really funny.
I am impressed how quickly he came up with the idea. I mean, when he asked for the camera, that's already setting up the punchline. Joker sees Jason coming back from the dead and needs barely a moment. "How can I hurt him the most?"
To me, that's what makes the Joker most frightening as a character. Anybody can write a villain who kills tons of people. But a character that somehow gets the audience to laugh, even as they're doing the most horrible things imaginable... that's a truly disturbing feat.
Lol the thought of either Batman or Jason snapping pictures of Joker posing with a crowbar while they’re like, “lookin’ good!” is genuinely hilarious to me.
@thanos serious question you've never watched an episode of supernatural? That's crazy I coudnt avoid it in the earlier 2000s when they would show it all the time
It's even better in the comics because he says it after Batman slits Jason's throat with a batarang and Jason crumples to the floor and rapidly bleeds out (I wish I was joking but I'm not).
We've got Batfleck now. While he's attempting to be the "No-Killing code" Batman again by the end of BvS; I could still see him making exceptions with shit stains like the Joker, and still remain _"incorruptible"_ Honestly, I have to question though why some folks cling to the notion that if you kill, you're no better than they are: FOR ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. No exceptions. Period. Makes me wonder if a select few secretly give dirty looks to soldiers or cops who were put into a kill or be killed situation. And for those out there who want to argue well it's apple and oranges because we're talking about supeheroes. People with powers who could've supposedly found another way other than killing, and beating the odds. But in this instance we're talking about Batman. The highest peak of human. But a man none the less. It's laughable how haters compare Bale's Batman taking out an entire SWAT team with zero casualties, when Batfleck was in a similar situation of saving a hostage against a ticking clock. Except the unfortunate causalities on Batfleck's part were criminals who simply got in the way or ended up offing themselves with stupid mistakes. Ironically that makes it more realistic than Nolan's supposedly hyper-realistic, grounded Batman verse. I still reel back flabbergasted by those who denounce Henry Cavill's Superman for killing General Zod. Where it was clear no clever tricks, plot devices, or prison would've solved a god-like, killing machine.
That’s because this is one scenario he would LOVE to die in! He is literally getting everything he could ever want out of this scenario! Forcing Batman to break his rule, Check. Jason acting as living proof of “ All it takes is one bad day.” Check. A highly suspenseful, tension filled sendoff that will reverberate through history, Check. And best of all, he is technically responsible for all of it. Jason would never had done any of this if it wasn’t for Joker killing him. The way he sees it, this isn’t Jason’s victory, it’s Jokers. Joker would LOVE to die like this, because this is all he could ever ask for in a final send off.
Jason understands that Dent’s entire transformation into a villain was all based on a mental illness- Dent’s dual personality. And as long as Dent continues to believe that Batman is not Bruce Wayne, he will let Bruce in with open arms because he’s still his friend.
@@clipsclipsandmoreclips3384so is Joker. Martian Manhunter manged to cure Joker's madness briefly, and he started crying and regretting all the things he did.
@@Ethanthegreat562wrong. Dick Grayson's parents were murdered by hitman paid by mob boss Tony Zuco as part of a protection racket. Jason's dad was gunned down by two face and his stepmother died of a drug overdose
@@ELIJAHNUBOYDIt’s because they’re both completely deranged. its a codependency situation where batman more than likely wouldnt know what to do with himself without joker
What makes this especially bittersweet for me is that as the bomb is about to go off, instead of trying to save them both, Batman completely runs past the Joker and tries saving Jason instead. In that moment, he chose Jason over the Joker. Jason actually gets his wish, just not how he planned it.
“You managed to find a way to win, and everybody still loses!” Pretty much defines the history of Batman, he keeps catching criminals and they keep coming back to kill more people.
@@thecoolestmrprogangster yeah but if batman arrests joker for like the 30th time, you cant keep putting the blame on the jail when batman is well aware he will get out again. First or second time? sure, not batmans fault. All the other times? entirely on batman
I'd say it's societies problem. People don't just wake up and decide to be come criminals and super villains. Maybe address the systemic issues that cause people to turn to crime in the first place. @@thecoolestmrprogangster
@@stevenclark5173 Irl, sure. Doesn't work that way in comics. Power is skewed heavily in the hands of individuals vs the system. You want to fix the system? You _need_ to remove super villains. Otherwise, it's just going to be a losing battle.
Anyone else like the distinction Jason makes during this argument where he says "I'm not talking about penguin, or scarecrow. or dent, I'm taking about him JUST HIM." and it's funny cause most everyone can see that joker is probably the ONLY one bad enough to not be rehabilitated whereas Freeze is sometimes good in a few storylines, penguin is a morally grey mob boss who can make a deal or just be jailed later, but joker is the only one who kinda deserves death so why not just him. Gotta say Jason makes a very valid point.
I think Jason is talking from a place of hurt. He wasn't talking to Batman; he was talking to his father. Why didn't his death not make Bruce fly into a rage after hearing what happen to him. Maybe deep down did he not actually care about him? I don't think Jason actually wanted revenge he just wanted to know that he was loved.
Simply put, it's because it won't just stop at one. You do it once, it becomes easier to do it again. It's quite a slippery slope. That's Batman's reasoning.
@@tonystank3091 Eh that's pretty bad reasoning, I mean look at redhood, he doesn't kill civilians or people who just rob a store, but if you murder, rape, torture, or are just that bad, then yeah it's better if the world doesn't have that kind of person in it.
@@tonystank3091 Injustice was tom's evil superman fantasy and he needed to find somewhere to start it also we forgot about the nuked city and dead wife and unborn child part.
This scene is unbelievable in its quality. There aren't many scenes in Batman media, or any media for that matter, that perfectly encapsulate the theme of what they're trying to present. Hell, Bruce summed it up perfectly in an earlier scene in the movie: "He's taken everything I've ever taught him and turned it on me. It's a hell of my making, Alfred."
@@jorgebersabe293 Exactly. It's funny how that's shown in media when Superman goes off on either Lex Luthor or the Joker if someone he loves dies, but we haven't seen a lot of media with Batman ending the Joker, except on the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover.
"I'm not talking about killing Cobblepot, or Scarecrow, or Clayface, not Riddler, or Dent, I'm talking about him. Just him." This is a long line, but a line that perfectly conveys Jason's motives of this story.
Not sure i understand, i might be missing something but what i get from this scene is that he said “Im not talking about killing Penguin or Scarecrow or Dent, i’m talking about him. Just him.” But i might be wrong and that he says that in another version of the movie but im just curious is all
I’m pretty sure it’s a line in a comic where another DC villain said, “when villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories.” Kinda shows how even the other bad guys are terrified of Joker.
@@yurifairy2969 It just goes to show that Jason never cared about justice or fairness, he only cared about Batman and the Joker because they where the reason he died.
It’s true though. Bruce understands that he’s unstable. He knows that if he crosses that line, he’ll become even worse than Joker. And the temptation to kill is always there. He has every mean and capability to kill literally every villain he’s ever faced but he holds himself back because he’s already figured out that he’d be even worse than Joker if he started killing
I really love this joker. He perfectly captures the psychotic, zero-fuck-giving, essence of the Joker while still making you wanna laugh with him sometimes. He fills that small void perfectly between Hamill and Ledger's geniuses.
I'm not disappointed in Batman for not killing Joker. I'm disappointed in Red Hood for not taking the shot, and doing what the Justice system should have done a long time ago.
Exactly. I think it puts into context that this isn't really about the Joker and more about Jason having a tantrum because he thinks Bruce didn't love him enough.
Things are as they are. Not as they "should" be. Only weak people murder. I'm going to lay it for you boy. Young black boys are in the electric chair. This is "justice". This is "law". It starts with the excuses. It ends in child slaughter. Batman is correct here. Don't. Just. Don't.
Im pretty sure he wants Batman to do the deed not himself. If jason kills the joker right then and now it wont be appropriate and right because Batman wont have to "redeem" himself or learn a lesson from what he should have done. If the universe have one unbreakable rule, is that The joker can only truly die by Batman, not old age or killed by someone else or Sickness
this scene is so well made that most people miss the point entirely lol batman isn't arguing that red hood is wrong at all, he just explains why he can't do it. and red hood proves himself wrong when he chooses to shoot batman. this isn't about justice, it's about his own feelings. if he was actually killing for the sake of justice he would have shot joker right then and there. but he shot batman instead, because that's what this is about, he's mad at batman. yes it's very easy to argue for killing joker but that's not what the scene is about at all.
Batman in essence is basically admitting that killing may indeed just send him over the edge when he (and anyone else very familiar with the character) already has psychological issues. And if he does, there's not a lot in Gotham that could stop him.
Nope it was abt the joker. He could have killed the joker himself before batman even made his way to him. The simplicity of the matter is Jason didn't want to kill joker he wanted batman to do it just to avenge him. The Lazarus pit turns u into a survival machine takes u back to instinct and then emotion. It sometimes cannot bring back sanity or strong logic.
Thank you! As a major Red Hood fan, a lot of people misunderstand the point of the movie! It's ultimately 100% okay to side with Red Hood & wanting Batman to kill the Joker, but Batman himself, simply will not kill. Masterful 10/10 movie, crazy how Jason just let his ass get beat senseless just to lure batman into his final plan xD
That line "Because he took me away from you" shows how much Jason loves and respects Bruce, not just as a mentor, but as a man, and a father Bruce was the only father figure Jason knew that actually gave a damn about him, cared about where he'll end up/his future. So being taken away from the person who loved you two people who love you if you count Alfred which you should id be mad too if I came back to life and learned the men I saw as a father and grandfather figure didn't avenge me and kept the man who took me away from them alive. To continue putting folks through the same crap again, and again, and again
This is the best take on Batman's non-killing rule imo. Not that he can't kill because it makes him as bad as the criminals he fights, but because on the inside he knows he's such a hate-filled, violent monster that if he lets himself make excuses just once, it'll start a slippery slope of brutal, sadistic vengeance that just leaves Gotham a darker place. Batman wants to be a symbol of hope, not surrender to his worst impulses - and as the Joker will insist, he has plenty of those.
So why be a hero at all? If it's that easy for you to break and go on a killing spree, despite his apparent mental toughness and whatnot, just don't be a hero or whatever. The most abused, traumatized people still don't become mass murderers even if they had every chance to, and when someone kills their abuser they don't just start killing randomly after that. Some even feel guilty or disgusting AT THEMSLEVES even if it was absolutely justified and even the right thing to do. The logic just doesn't logic, you wouldn't let a psychopath be a hero normally anyway, why is he suddenly an exeption because he is that, if he's literally holding back from going on a murder rampage.
@@sipi2009 Because you can't put it back in the box. You can make excuses and say it was just that one time, but it's telling the world, other heroes, other villains, and Batman himself that he's hypocritical and can't be trusted. The point of being a hero is to be an inspiration, that people can be better than their past. But if Batman kills the Joker, other villains are going to get a lot more vicious and start taking hostages if they hear that Batman is killing people who "deserve it", other heroes are going to keep him at a distance even more than usual, civilians are going to scared instead of having someone to look up to, the police are going to actively hunt him and not just grudgingly tolerate him. You might look down on the moral high ground, but there is power in being in the right. I personally think there is a difference between killing the Joker in self-defense, either his life or yours, and actively being judge, jury, and executioner. Being a hero comes with responsibility to be on point or at least don't make the situation worse and you can't say killing the Crown Prince of Crime is best choice to make in that moment.
@@wesleywallace4426 And for that reason I prefer an antihero (vigilante) much more than a hero, in the end antiheroes are not interested in being admired or inspired, or that the other heroes love them, what they are interested in is doing a greater good for the entire population, even if that means killing those who avoid that In the end I think that the vigilantes are more heroes deep down, than the heroes themselves and their moral code. That the heroes are more to make the the work easy for the authorities and be idols for children
Cartoon Network vs young Justice YJ: I forgive you for cancelling me. But why? Why on gods green earth *kicks down door* is he still alive? Teen titans go: *starts laughing*
YJ: Ignoring what he's done... Blindly, stupidly, disregarding the entire fanbase he's enraged. The thousands who have suffered. The characters he's ruined. I thought... I thought you cared about your fans.
YJ: What? Your censors just won't allow for a show with good animation, likeable characters, good action and actual funny comedy? It's too hard to do any of that?
CN: no!!! God almighty no. It'd be too easy. All I wanted to ever do was cancel shows like Teen titans go! A day doesn't go by where I don't think about cancelling it. Having the teen titans cast and producer comeback to listen to every stupid thing the studio wrote for them and making them watch it like they've forced DC fans to listen to and then......cancelling it. TTG: awwww so you do watch us. CN: but if I do that. If I allow myself to go down into that place.....I'll cancel everything thing good and bad.
YJ: Why? I'm not talking about canceling Teen Titans forever. *points gun at TTG* I'm talking about him. Just him. I'm doing it because... Because he took me off the air.
This is still my favorite scene from any Batman movie....animated or otherwise. "I'm talking about killing him. Just him! And doing it because... because he took me away from you". Like damn man Jason is just so hurt. He feels like his dad abandoned him.
So many people don't recognize the difference between Jason Todd and Red Hood. Jason Todd is the person saying:"I forgive you for not saving me." "Because he took me away from you." A son who didn't care that he DIED. He cared that someone hurt his dad. Red Hood is the one who says:"Why is he still alive?" "If he had taken you from this world. I would have done nothing but search the planet for this pathetic pile of evil death worshipping garbage and sent him off to hell!"
John DiMaggio and Troy Baker’s Joker (Arkham Origins) are the best ones, imo. And that’s coming from someone who grew up with the 90’s animated series.
Why is no one talking about how hilarious Joker's "Party pooper. No cake for you." line is? Not only is it funny, but also shows how insane the Joker really is.
BardockHazar True, but at least he is minimizing the loss of innocent lives. You think what Batman does is effective? All he does is send criminals to prison only for them to be released or broken out again and cause even more damage. What Red Hood is doing is more realistic and responsible in a way.
crazytuner111 But he's completly ignoring that no indivdual should have the right to be Judge Jury and Executioner if anybody can decide who should live and die than what is the point of law in the first place. And who's to say that Red Hood wasn't just patching it while Batman has his rogues causing large problems Jason's way will only increase the street crime and that would eventually lead to increase in crime. It would blow up in his face one day and he would lose control
Exactly and then his excuses that he wanted to challenge them. Having Batman use guns is not a challenge that makes it so easy for him. It takes away all the nuance of his character. This is a challenge for Batman because it actually hasn't come to play on what to do. What Zack Snyder did was character assassination. There's a complete difference
People still don't get it, even though Batman just spelled it out here. His no-kill rule isn't tied to a moral code of sorts, it's not about morality. It's personal and tied to his own trauma and limits. If he allows himself to kill, he'll lose it, and he knows it.
Thank you! I'm glad people are finally starting to realize this. I hate the whole " Batman's no kill rule is stupid" because it's not only people who don't understand the no kill rule called it stupid
what I love about this scene is that Jason wants bruce to kill joker, he wants to know that his death had any impact on bruce and that bruce would enact justice on the joker this time. That's why Jason doesn't just shoot joker outright after showing him to bruce.
@@safcjoe7062 yeah because bruce is also a villain. not to mention i interpreted it as a fit of rage, not actually red hood wanting to kill batman. I mean, his suit is bullet proof and jason knows this
Well by the looks of it he's in a closet so everything probably sounded muffled and based on his movement when jason broke down the door he looked like he was asleep or something.
+T vampasta I read it my first time like months ago. I remember it. cause Batman found a joker card in his cave. then he brought it to Joker in prison as Bruce.
I wonder if Zack Snyder has ever seen this movie, because it does a great explanation of exactly why Batman shredding goons like the Punisher doesn't happen and how to properly write the character.
Batman kills, he becomes a monster. Joker wins. Batman does nothing, Jason kills the Joker and forces the Batman to stop him. Joker wins. Batman stops Jason and saves Joker, Joker lives to kill the next day. Joker wins. The Joker won. EDIT: This thing keeps getting traction somehow even though its nearly a decade old and I've come realize something about Batman fighting the Joker. The REAL reason Batman can't permanently end the Joker in any way is cuz that would end the conflict, which would prevent DC from getting their money. Cripling him for life? The Joker gets better with a convoluted "somehow". Killing him? Noooo cuz that would be BAAAAAAD and BWAAAA. Batman redeems the Joker? DC will LITERALLY tell you "Ignore that" and carry on like it didn't happen. The Joker won cuz Batman is not allowed to win by editorial mandate.
That's one I disagree with. Why would Batman become a monster just for killing Joker? Are those who execute convicted criminals monsters? Are soldiers who fight in wars monsters? And if anyone has ever deserved death, it's Joker. In fact, simply killing him would almost be too kind after all he's done. Still, I don't buy into this whole "putting a bullet between his eyes and ending him forever would somehow irredeemably change Batman" crap.
Slashco Say that after you've killed someone. The point is that no matter who it is or whether they deserve it or not, once you've started, it's easier to rationalize. Batman is supposed to be a symbol of hope in Gotham, and it's pretty hard to put your faith in a killer.
Batman's not above the law. He's not judge, jury, and executioner. Even if the Joker deserves it (which he does), Batman's not gonna become a murderer. Really its the justice systems fault for not executing the crazy bastard.
This scene makes sense after A Death in the Family. Jason's conscience is running wild on him, trying to dictate him on who to kill. He could've just killed the joker like he said he was going to if Batman wouldn't, but his mind was telling him to point his gun at Batman for turning his back on him in that moment.
This scene always hits me because, in my opinion, both sides are valid. If Batman HAD ended the Joker sooner, instead of just leaving him to the authorities, the graveyards would have very well been a LOT less crowded, Jason Todd wouldn't have been killed, and Barbara Gordon wouldn't have been crippled from the waist down. On the other hand, if Batman takes that action...how would he ever trust himself not to do it again? First time's always the hardest, and after that, it gets easier. And easier. And before you know it he's painting Gotham in the same amount of red as the very villains he swore to protect Gotham from. Though one can make some counter-points against Batman's side of things, such as his years of martial arts training should have given him the discipline and mental fortitude to make logical judgements as to who to kill and who not to. Some could even say that the whole "It would be too easy" scene is just him saying "I have zero self-control"
Well it’s shown it’s taken so much of him to control. He’s made it his habit to control himself. Once that slope is crossed it turns into an avalanche. But yeah totally agree
Your comment makes me realize that none of the "normal people" are a part of the discussion of murdering Joker. Surely most people around Joker when he is being detained would also think about the possibility of killing him. Sometimes the corruption of Gotham is described as reaching the police too, sometimes the police are presented as a symbol of being more untainted than Batman since they stay within the law. Somewhere in that spectrum, this could be explored well in a story.
I just think Bruce needs to stop saving him when he's about to get it in the neck. Like at this point I'm not rooting for him to kill the joker but the logic in the books that he has to save him baffles me sometimes. Or at the very least hes a detective and Gordon is commissioner I'm sure they have plenty of evidence that pretty much guarantees the state puts joker down. I get comic book logic isn't real logic but sometimes it's a bit tiresome in instances like this.
I would like to point out that batman isn't fully mentally stable either, he knows hence the no kill rule and has a grip on his sanity but if he intentionally takes a fellow person's life, understandable circumstances or not, he doesn't trust himself to stop after that one time I don't fully like the no kill rule, I understand why it's there but sometimes you have to make a choice that you will have no other option but to kill
This movie was an absolute masterpiece. It perfectly captured Batman. Jensen Eckles did an absolutely fantastic job as Red Hood. Joker was insanely good. The dialogues sent chills down my spine. This movie has a lot of emotional depth to it and that's what I love. The execution, the layout it was perfect.
@@adampatterson2195 to Bruce, it isn't just a some fancy moral code. Bruce made to his himself, his parents on their graves 🪦, and everyone he loves, maybe it's not something you would commit to or admire. But for someone like bruce, it's everything he lives, trains, and strives to be. The best he can be, and if he isn't that then, he can't be anything at all.
This scene is a piece of art Jason" this is all its been about, you me and him" Bravo!! The very essence of that decision in a limited amount of time is the true moral of the story. Nothing can compare to this God i love this.
This movie was surprisingly great. Jensen Ackles does an amazing job voicing the Red Hood throughout... but especially in this scene. Just, wow. DiMaggio does a pretty insane Joker here too.
@@jamesvanitas he was phenomenal in the Boys, spoiler I seriously doubt he's dead, they didn't kill Homelander because of his popularity so I'd be surprised in SB is gone, he immediately became a fan favorite.
John DiMaggio was also outstanding and funny as fuck as the joker he is actually the only joker portrayal that actually makes me laugh he has great lines and delivery its probably his comedic background he is probably the most diva joker 😅
u cant help agreeing with Jason's logic about batman's idiotic moral code about killing. but I have a question why does gotham not have the death penalty. I mean seriously how has the justice system in gotham not condemned him to death a thousand times over by now it makes no sense. no wonder Jason todd went insane...or maybe he is the only sane one in gotham...
Captain Possible even so. my point was why is gotham not seem to give out the death penalty ever most of these villians have committed genocide and at this point as soon as they are captured by batman it should of been a straight shot to the fireing squad no waiting or jail just literally point and shoot him in the head,
+dragonhatcher12 In the comics, it's said that the Joker has a dream team of lawyers that manage to help him avoid the death penalty and just land back in Arkham Asylum
+dragonhatcher12 Well in real life America they don't always give put the death penalty to people even when they the chance to, like ironically the guy behind the Batman Massacre killed like 12 people including a 6 year old and was jailed and not condemned to death.
Toad Lash I thought they did kill that guy well gotham villians always escape from prison and then get caught and still never get exterminated. but yah that is ridicous that guy is still alive glad to know my tax dollars payin for a worthless justice system that doesn't believe in the death penalty want happen to firing squads screw this lethal injection crap shoot the bastards In the head or go real medieval like a beheading that way they can keep using the same axe and not wast tax money
"And doing it because... because he took me away from you." Jason sounds so much like a teenager here, the one that died and suffered. Not in the sense that it's childish or that Jason is failing to understand what Bruce means. It's a son who wants his father's love and felt like he loved his father more than his father loved him when his father let his killer walk free. Jason was right in many ways - the moral code is stupid and something only Bruce can obtain (and Bruce heavily straddles that line himself). But to know that a moral code stood in the way of your father getting justice for you, even if he is Batman, and he never did it, and he knows you would have crossed that line for him a long time ago.. it would break anyone's heart.
I so think people also forget that in the og Death In The Family Comic it does seem heavily implied that he might have killed the Joker if he had been given the chance but the Joker got away
"I'm not talking about killing Penguin, or Scarecrow, or Dent! I'm talking about _him!_ JUST *_HIM!"_* I like this quote. It shows that while Red Hood is perfectly fine with killing, he still understands restraint. Sure, it's more out of a motivation for avenging his death by a specific person's hands, but I think that if Jason went up against more sympathetic villains like Two-Face & Mr. Freeze, he may not kill them because they're not truly deserving of death. Dent was a good man who was genuinely broken, he deserves to be saved. And Freeze's motivations were almost always toward curing his wife Nora, what he needs is either extensive therapy and counciling to accept that Nora simply can't be saved, or help with developing the cure he's been so desperate to find. Neither one of them deserve a bullet through the brain while monsters like Joker, Victor Zsasz, and Professor Pyg absolutely need to be put down before they inevitably hurt another innocent person.
It's ironic, because Two-Face was Jason's _original_ to-kill-or-not-to-kill rogue, back when he was Robin. He was the one who'd killed Jason's parents.
@@mahersalthomas1739 The worst Penguin deserves is maximum security lockup, same with Bane. But frankly, what crock deserves is to just be treated better. He wasn't always a monster, people just acted like he was until he just accepted it. At the very least, he should maybe have his bad memories erased so it may be easier to transition him into being more of a good guy
So for those of you that don't understand Bruce, let me give you a scenario in the form of Superman that most of you may know, in Injustice Clark never killed anyone before, he went through torture just as Bruce in case of Bruce as Jason, Clark's was that the joker made him kill both Lois and his unborn child. He was so furious and agitated he killed Joker once, and he never stopped...same with Bruce, when people say he is batshit insane they aren't exaggerating inside of Bruce is still a boy crying for his parents behind the mean demeanor, he never got over it, in the canon flashpoint comics he cried for the first time reading Thomas's letter, he is crazy like Joker, the point of Batman vs Joker as his archenemy is both are insanely similiar, both are equally crazy the only one difference between Joker and Batman is that Bruce refused to go down the path of going the easy way and killing people, take that away he's no better than the Joker. The moment Bruce kills anybody I guarantee he won't be coming back the moment someone kills someone and knows it's justified they have a sense of it's not that bad, Bruce knows this, and he knows he'll enjoy killing,but he doesn't want to. So when this happens it means Joker wins even if he dies he wins, because he broke the bat, no matter what Bruce will never turn on his ways, because he knows what he's capable of.
There are various anti-heroes that kill bad guys and don't turn into evil dictators that kill all who stand against them. Executing criminals was really common an just an century ago, judges and executors didn't suddenly became evil caricatures.
@@kinsmart7294 Some of them did. When you take someone as deranged as Batman and have them take a life. There are some who cannot stop afterwards. Hell there were serial killers who’s first murder was a crime of passion which ended up turning into a spree. It makes sense.
3:12 but that's the thing Jason. He won't stop you from pulling the trigger. You can have your revenge. What you're trying to do... Maybe he should have done it himself. But that has to be a choice. You can't force him to. Despite being your father...he's still his own person.
It’s unsettling how well John DiMaggio plays the Joker. I still prefer Mark Hamill but in this one movie he definitely came close to capturing the Clown Prince of Crime’s insanity just as well.
I'm a huuuuge Batman fan but on this one, I have to side with Jason. Sometimes the good guys have to do bad things to make the bad guys pay. Simple as that. Justice in it's purest form cannot be delivered with exceptions or moral codes. It's raw, ugly, monstrous maybe, but when need be, it must be done.
Batman said it himself, he cannot let himself do what he actually wants to do, or he'd become the monster he is trying to fight. If he were to use all of his resources available to him to simply murder every villain, he would be the most terrifying individual Gotham has ever seen. That is something that he just cannot allow himself to become.
I half agree. I think joker is to far gone to help and to dangerous let love but I don't think Brice should kill him. I want the people of Gotham to do is cause the could so easily do it but prefer to leave evwyup to the dark night. He clean up the mess than we some happens they can blame him.
Once you allow yourself to be the arbiter of where the line is of someone being 'too far gone for help' you give yourself permission to move the line. How long until the other villains Jason listed are 'too far gone' as well? Batman exists to protect people, not to deliver justice. He's not the jury, not the judge and not the executioner. And it would be a dangerous road to go down to allow himself to be so.
@@aduboo29 never said Batman was. I said the city should do it. I'm not saying we shouldnt try to help the villain since they are broken people but there need to be a limit. We can only do so much for some one who is constantly braking out and killing people just to make a point to Batman.
Well it’s less “To make the bad guys pay” than it should be “To stop anymore innocent lives from being taken”. If you take the revenge route you’re turning into exactly what Batman fear- but if Bruce simply (I know it’s not this simple) changed his mentality to saving innocent lives rather than revenge, he’d have a much easier time taking out Joker
Jason is the after-product of what happens when Joker goes too far and kills someone close to Batman. I usually love Batman, and I still do. But Jason is right here: The Joker needed to pay for killing Jason, and I'm mad at Batman for not killing him, even though he says he wants to. Batman is usually shown as this invincible superhero that always wins, but in reality, he had to deal with the loss of Jason, and now he has to deal with the loss of Damian. People say he's an invincible hero that always wins, but I don't believe that. Sure, he may always win, but it comes at the price of losing your family, and in this case, it's his parents, it was Jason, and now it's Damian. In some aspects, I love Red Hood more than I do Batman, because Bruce isn't willing to kill, but Jason is. And Jason is the way he is because Batman won't kill. And that's why I prefer Red Hood over Nightwing, when it comes to favorite Robins. I mean, Nightwing is cool and all, don't get me wrong, but to me, Red Hood is the better one not because of his personality, or his choice of weapon, or even his outfit; it's because of his backstory and origin of why he is the way he is, and when you think about it, it's understandable he is the way he is because of what happens, Lazarus Pit or not. Red Hood's popularity is said to come from the fact that he's just an anti-hero who uses guns, or is just plain different from the other Robins, but I like him because his entire Red Hood persona comes from the fact that Batman doesn't kill, and unless Batman starts killing (which is highly unlikely), or Red Hood forgets about his days as Robin (haven't been keeping up with Red Hood and the Outlaws FYI), this will never change, and that is what makes this story arc one of the best Batman movies, hell one of the best DC Comics animated movies ever, in my opinion at least. Red Hood is one of my favorite anti-heroes/heroes and my favorite Robin, and I seriously hope he gets more screentime in the future, whether it be in movies, video games, or tv shows. Hell, if in the future, Red Hood and Batman ever team up again for whatever reason (except for a bullcrap reason like what happened in Batman and Red Hood #20), then I will be pleased because as much as Red Hood is angry at Batman for not killing Joker, I feel that Red Hood should still be apart of the Bat Family, regardless of whether he kills or not.
I do agree with you up to a certain point. Still if Batman did kill Joker, yeah it will give Gotham a huge favor, but there is no telling what Batman would do next if he decided to kill the bad guys. Because revenge just doesn't stop like that, it could grow. And you can't leave out the other heroes perceptions of Batman doing that act, especially Superman and other allies in this what if scenario. Thing is, the real truth is that the battle between good and evil is seemingly never-ending. Even if the worst criminals in the DC universe died by the hands of the good guys, it wouldn't be the real end of the villains, they'll find a way to pop right back up and cause trouble again. Its easy to kill, but the action still has an effect in more ways than you realize, and even if someone would let it slide, how many people will start thinking a bit differently if they knew their ally started killing from now on and as a result, some may have no problem, but others may still have a problem, to the point they fear their hero may become an imminent threat more worst than other villains should he or she turn into a villain or at least something more radical and that concern turns to fear. Now I know I've seen a lot of super heroes who have done it already or attempted to kill. And it is hard to not do it because a villain does more crimes not only to the citizens but the heroes loved ones. I almost forgot that when it came to the Joker, many times he deserved death row, many times the justice system in the DC World was too weak to even see that insanity provided too much a dang cover for Joker to eventually get out of arkham and kill again, since he is aware of what he's doing. Also, Jason should have shot Joker anyway in this scene, at least Batman wouldn't have to do it, but he turn his gun on Batman, and Bats anticipated that. Well at least the two of us have our opinions, I know I wanted Joker dead at times when he does that s**t in the comics, TV, and games, but let someone else do it, the Justice system could have sentenced him Joker to death many times, and there's someone else who wanted Joker's head, but Batman shouldn't have to especially if he does have reasons. Well its what my opinion, and it is interesting to see what others have to say.
leon4000 Oh yeah, that was my only problem with the movie: Jason should have just shot and killed Joker right then and there, but at the same time I understand why he didn't, because he wanted Batman to do it so Jason can have a sense of relief, knowing his mentor and adopted father got revenge for Jason's death. On another related note, *SPOILERS* The Joker died in Batman: Arkham City. *END SPOILERS* And with Joker gone in Batman: Arkham Knight, taking place one year after Arkham City, I RRREEEEEEEAAALLLLYYYYYY want to see Jason Todd/Red Hood in Arkham Knight and his reaction to Joker's death. He must probably be the only person that's not a civilian to be happy about this. I REALLY hope Red Hood is in Arkham Knight XD
Bringing him back from the dead in Arkham Knight would make the ending of AC completely pointless, and Rocksteady isn't stupid enough to actually bring him back :P
Batman's moral code is bullshit. In reality he isn't helping much. Most of the villains kill innocent civilians. That's why Jason is a better batman imo.
Epidemic Pain Bullets don't move at the speed of sound. he predicted the bullet would be fired and because his reflexes are trained to the limit he was able to move as soon as the trigger was being pulled.
DBfan106 The bullet already left the chamber before batman even started moving,its not physically possible for a human to dodge that No matter how good your reflexes are
I gotta love this scene in this movie. Batman and Jason just having an emotional moment here and Joker just ruining it with his constant joking of the situation. Such a Joker move here. It’s funny and yet frightening to think about
Jason is such a cool type of character to me because its a very specific kind of irony used to pull on the heartstrings and question the character themselves in a way I've only really seen in something like Vergil from Devil may cry. anti hero eventually working for/as the enemy they originally wanted to stop. In dmc its Vergil becoming everything that Mundus was (power hungry and obsessed with defeating anyone in their way), here its Jason helping joker break batman and forcing him to break his rule. Both times its completely unbeknownst to them as well
I am. I was just trying to tell a joke about how John Dimaggio voices the Joker. He also voiced Bender in Futurama, and he always saids, "Bite my shiny metal ass."
Jason Todd has a point. No matter how many times Joker put in the asylum, he breaks out and kill people again, and again, and again, and AGAIN until you realize he is a monster.
I remember I watched this movie with my papa when it came out, and we were expecting a typical action movie but were so pleasantly surprised to find it to be a drama about the relationship between Batman and Robin. So good.
"You managed to find a way to win, and EVERYBODY STILL LOSES!"
I love that quote.
John DiMaggio’s delivery of this line is PICTURE perfect
Shame they left out the bit inmediatly after, where Joker stops Batman from disarming the explosives. "No! Don't spoil it, this is better! I'm the only one who's going to get what he wants tonight! Yes! Big-Bang-Boom! We all go out together! Don't you just love a happy ending?"
The joker dialogue and voice acting thru this entire scene is remarkable. I can’t believe this is a cartoon. It rivals Nolans and heaths joker
@@Damar158 see but he still technically loses because he can’t cause anymore chaos after his death
Everybody still lost
“The friends he’s crippled” damn. Jason wasn’t just mad for himself. He was angry for everyone.
It shows he still cares for Barbara and the others in his own way
I like to add something about Batman's moral code i think he's right. I was always obsessed between the no kill or kill rule i noticed the people who crossed the line in other universe's never came back Light Yagami(Kira), Niko Bellic, The Punisher, Spawn Al Simmon's, Alucard all have tragic past just like Batman and Bats walk's the line between Hero, Anti Hero and Villain. As my understanding reading all of reason's of not killing his first reason is it always start's with one what he means by this it's an addiction similiar to smoking, drug's or alcohol . Light Yagami started with 1 at first he was shocked and felt guilt but later he justified his action's saying it was for the greater good. Then 2 reason of not killing is not beacuse is not what his parent's would have wanted the loved one's of Niko Bellic and Punisher are gonna be dissapointed that they turned into a monster Roman: You have to move on all these killing's and violence need to end.
Maria: My husband died in Central Park along with his family, all you are is The Punisher, i saw what you did . In the name of our Children.
Batman 3rd reason is he won't stop killing Alucard and Spawn they both have demonic appearance's and which make the quote the road to hell is paved with good intention's more literal. They are both consumed by revenge and let it destroy them. similiar to what Batman said to Rachel in Batman Begin's .
Rachel: I said some bad thing's to you.
Bruce: but true thing's, Justice is about more than revenge. I was a coward with a gun so in a way you thank you.
Okay i'm gonna end the comment here i think i dragged long enough .I always found Batman a fascinating character but wheter he is right or wrong is up to debate.
@@Thissoceityiskindalame shut up
@@Resident4Island Don't forget Eren Yeager too.
@@Resident4Island beautifully said man, i never thought of it that way. I would throw in Sasuke Uchiha 2. After he killed itachi he was never the same. Thankfully he had Naruto but even to this day he regrets his actions.
This is why this version of Jason is the best.
He isn't angry at Batman for not saving him. He doesn't believe Batman forgot him. He loves Bruce, and he will always love Bruce. He just doesn't understand why he didn't kill Joker, and that's it.
I always lament anyone who genuinely believes Jason hates Batman or is just a murdering machine, because he simply is not. He is just a broken boy.
THIS
THIIIIS
EXACTLY
MY POOR BABY 😭😭😭😭😭
Throwback to the fact Jason died bc of a viewer poll
Thanks for reminding why I despise Arkham knight 😂
@@MILDMONSTER1234to be fair, that is a very different type of universe, I mean getting locked in Arkham as Jokers prisoner, no shock he was broken
@@littlevoidboi2111kinda like how in the warrior cats Fandom ferncloud a speckled gray queen known for staying in the nursery was killed because the Fandom wanted her to die because they thought she was useless.
I hate people.
“And then one with the crowbar!”
Even though the Joker’s identity is supposed to be an antithesis to Batman’s hyper moral, stoic, austere identity; he’s also just naturally really funny.
I don't know, the crowbar one was good but I almost never really laugh at his jokes
I am impressed how quickly he came up with the idea. I mean, when he asked for the camera, that's already setting up the punchline.
Joker sees Jason coming back from the dead and needs barely a moment.
"How can I hurt him the most?"
I love how that line triggers Jason and he finally forces him to shut up
To me, that's what makes the Joker most frightening as a character. Anybody can write a villain who kills tons of people. But a character that somehow gets the audience to laugh, even as they're doing the most horrible things imaginable... that's a truly disturbing feat.
Lol the thought of either Batman or Jason snapping pictures of Joker posing with a crowbar while they’re like, “lookin’ good!” is genuinely hilarious to me.
"Because he took me away from you." That one line delivered with more emotion and pain than any line ever in a superhero movie.
...this is a superhero movie
This IS a superhero movie. And lol no, it was a good line and delivery but your exaggerating BADLY right now. Just stop!
@Dutch with glasses there is no “nO” at all, I’m right and you’re wrong.
@@Gadget-Walkmen No your wrong and he’s right
@@Dajuiceman lol not even close, he’s wrong and YOUR wrong and I’m the only one here whose actually right. Just stop with your nonsense.
This isn't an argument between Batman and Red Hood
It's an argument between Father and Son
Family but dysfunctional.
okay so in other words its an argument between batman and red hood
"Becuase he took me away from you" hits so hard
@darkoblade759 the slight quivering in Jensen Ackles' voice really makes this scene
Out of context, can we appreciate Jason's VA? His voicing during the scene was incredible!
and he's voiced by jensen ackles, soldier boy
@@thanos1725 The man had a lot of potential as a voice actor. I really wish they continue Jason's story to where BUTRH left off.
@@thanos1725 More famously known as Dean Winchester from Supernatural
@@BrianWalker93 I legit only knew him as soldier boy. good to know tho!
@thanos serious question you've never watched an episode of supernatural? That's crazy I coudnt avoid it in the earlier 2000s when they would show it all the time
Joker's "You found a way to win, and everybody still loses" was amazing.
indeed
It's even better in the comics because he says it after Batman slits Jason's throat with a batarang and Jason crumples to the floor and rapidly bleeds out (I wish I was joking but I'm not).
@@hollythemage1350…wtf WTF!? So he kills his god d*mn son but he won’t kill that psychotic clown? What the actual fuck is wrong with this bastard!?
Batman did what to Jason's throat now? So batman at this point just sickens me
@@hollythemage1350 did that f%cking happen? He killed Jason instead of just letting him kill Joker?
"And everybody still loses!"
That line gives me chills every single time I hear it.
Epicarp and is very characteristic of the many best Batman stories
the definition of a pyrrhic victory
It gives you chills because it’s true
@@quincywhite6871 Damn straight.
“I’ve won but at what cost”
I'm sorry but I'm with Jason on this one
+sdhbfhkds no
+sdhbfhkds no
+sdhbfhkds joker is lucky Frank castle doesn't exist this DC universe
It is simple really, kill Bruce Wayne. Then you will get a true Batman.
We've got Batfleck now. While he's attempting to be the "No-Killing code" Batman again by the end of BvS; I could still see him making exceptions with shit stains like the Joker, and still remain _"incorruptible"_
Honestly, I have to question though why some folks cling to the notion that if you kill, you're no better than they are: FOR ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. No exceptions. Period.
Makes me wonder if a select few secretly give dirty looks to soldiers or cops who were put into a kill or be killed situation.
And for those out there who want to argue well it's apple and oranges because we're talking about supeheroes. People with powers who could've supposedly found another way other than killing, and beating the odds.
But in this instance we're talking about Batman. The highest peak of human. But a man none the less. It's laughable how haters compare Bale's Batman taking out an entire SWAT team with zero casualties, when Batfleck was in a similar situation of saving a hostage against a ticking clock.
Except the unfortunate causalities on Batfleck's part were criminals who simply got in the way or ended up offing themselves with stupid mistakes. Ironically that makes it more realistic than Nolan's supposedly hyper-realistic, grounded Batman verse.
I still reel back flabbergasted by those who denounce Henry Cavill's Superman for killing General Zod. Where it was clear no clever tricks, plot devices, or prison would've solved a god-like, killing machine.
I like how the Joker just absolutely loves everything that is happening and isnt worried at all about dying 😂
Just smiling and laughing the whole time lol🤣
That’s because this is one scenario he would LOVE to die in! He is literally getting everything he could ever want out of this scenario! Forcing Batman to break his rule, Check. Jason acting as living proof of “ All it takes is one bad day.” Check. A highly suspenseful, tension filled sendoff that will reverberate through history, Check. And best of all, he is technically responsible for all of it. Jason would never had done any of this if it wasn’t for Joker killing him. The way he sees it, this isn’t Jason’s victory, it’s Jokers. Joker would LOVE to die like this, because this is all he could ever ask for in a final send off.
Joker in this movie is litterally the meme of
"You burned my house to the ground, my families"
"Sounds like a YOU problem :("
The man's too far gone and that's an understatement.
Yeah, he's literally like "Yo! Anyone got a bowl of popcorn? This is some juicy stuff!"
I like that he refers to Two-Face as Dent, showing that, like Bruce, he might believe Harvey can still be saved.
Its especially note worthy he mentioned Dent, the man who who killed his father in most adaptions
Jason understands that Dent’s entire transformation into a villain was all based on a mental illness- Dent’s dual personality. And as long as Dent continues to believe that Batman is not Bruce Wayne, he will let Bruce in with open arms because he’s still his friend.
@@ethanglickman2978 Oh my bad
@@clipsclipsandmoreclips3384so is Joker. Martian Manhunter manged to cure Joker's madness briefly, and he started crying and regretting all the things he did.
@@Ethanthegreat562wrong. Dick Grayson's parents were murdered by hitman paid by mob boss Tony Zuco as part of a protection racket. Jason's dad was gunned down by two face and his stepmother died of a drug overdose
"You found a way to win, and everybody still looses!"
Strangely a running theme for the Dark Knight
Loses*
It's almost as if playing 'catch and release' with murderous sociopaths is a stupid idea....
@@ELIJAHNUBOYDhell yeah. I'm so tired of this. Joker is a mass murderer and Batman still keeps letting him live
@@ELIJAHNUBOYDIt’s because they’re both completely deranged. its a codependency situation where batman more than likely wouldnt know what to do with himself without joker
and vice versa
What makes this especially bittersweet for me is that as the bomb is about to go off, instead of trying to save them both, Batman completely runs past the Joker and tries saving Jason instead. In that moment, he chose Jason over the Joker. Jason actually gets his wish, just not how he planned it.
JerrBear81 He has like a moment to think, In his defense I’d rather save my son than a deranged mental patient
If batman had enough time he would have gone back for joker
I know it’s been over half a decade but I’d like to add that he leaves Joker *in front of the ticking bomb*
It's been 6 years ... Probably you already know it's different in the comics. In the comic, Batman is throwing batarang to Jason throats area
Let’s add on to it that Jason want from scared to accepting that he was probably gonna die when the bomb went off
Jensen Ackles voice acting as Jason here is AMAZING
woah i never knew that was him that’s wild he’s great
@@tesserae582yup Dean or aka soilder boy
@@XhristianGaminXI only know him for soldier boy
“You managed to find a way to win, and everybody still loses!” Pretty much defines the history of Batman, he keeps catching criminals and they keep coming back to kill more people.
It’s the same with many superheroes tbh
It’s mostly the police departments problem for handling it so badly
@@thecoolestmrprogangster yeah but if batman arrests joker for like the 30th time, you cant keep putting the blame on the jail when batman is well aware he will get out again.
First or second time? sure, not batmans fault. All the other times? entirely on batman
I'd say it's societies problem. People don't just wake up and decide to be come criminals and super villains. Maybe address the systemic issues that cause people to turn to crime in the first place. @@thecoolestmrprogangster
@@stevenclark5173 Irl, sure. Doesn't work that way in comics. Power is skewed heavily in the hands of individuals vs the system.
You want to fix the system? You _need_ to remove super villains.
Otherwise, it's just going to be a losing battle.
Anyone else like the distinction Jason makes during this argument where he says "I'm not talking about penguin, or scarecrow. or dent, I'm taking about him JUST HIM." and it's funny cause most everyone can see that joker is probably the ONLY one bad enough to not be rehabilitated whereas Freeze is sometimes good in a few storylines, penguin is a morally grey mob boss who can make a deal or just be jailed later, but joker is the only one who kinda deserves death so why not just him. Gotta say Jason makes a very valid point.
I think Jason is talking from a place of hurt. He wasn't talking to Batman; he was talking to his father. Why didn't his death not make Bruce fly into a rage after hearing what happen to him. Maybe deep down did he not actually care about him? I don't think Jason actually wanted revenge he just wanted to know that he was loved.
Simply put, it's because it won't just stop at one. You do it once, it becomes easier to do it again. It's quite a slippery slope. That's Batman's reasoning.
@@tonystank3091 Eh that's pretty bad reasoning, I mean look at redhood, he doesn't kill civilians or people who just rob a store, but if you murder, rape, torture, or are just that bad, then yeah it's better if the world doesn't have that kind of person in it.
@@dylanjohnson4858 In order to see where that leads, one needs only look at Superman in the Injustice timeline.
@@tonystank3091 Injustice was tom's evil superman fantasy and he needed to find somewhere to start it also we forgot about the nuked city and dead wife and unborn child part.
This scene is unbelievable in its quality. There aren't many scenes in Batman media, or any media for that matter, that perfectly encapsulate the theme of what they're trying to present. Hell, Bruce summed it up perfectly in an earlier scene in the movie:
"He's taken everything I've ever taught him and turned it on me. It's a hell of my making, Alfred."
i dont believe they will ever do red hood as good as they did in this movie.
Red Hood did what Batman was so weak he couldn't bring himself to do coz he was afraid he'd lose himself in madness. Never happened to me.
@@damiendingus2539 That's because some folks are built different. What do you think would happen to Batman the moment he snap Joker's neck?
@@omarcogle1965 4 words: The Batman Who Laughs.
@@jorgebersabe293 Exactly. It's funny how that's shown in media when Superman goes off on either Lex Luthor or the Joker if someone he loves dies, but we haven't seen a lot of media with Batman ending the Joker, except on the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover.
"I'm not talking about killing Cobblepot, or Scarecrow, or Clayface, not Riddler, or Dent, I'm talking about him. Just him." This is a long line, but a line that perfectly conveys Jason's motives of this story.
Not sure i understand, i might be missing something but what i get from this scene is that he said “Im not talking about killing Penguin or Scarecrow or Dent, i’m talking about him. Just him.”
But i might be wrong and that he says that in another version of the movie but im just curious is all
I’m pretty sure it’s a line in a comic where another DC villain said, “when villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories.” Kinda shows how even the other bad guys are terrified of Joker.
Ironic, because he killed a lot of people anyways...
honestly, they could kill penguin and scarecrow too. those guys are ALMOST as bad as the joker.
@@yurifairy2969 It just goes to show that Jason never cared about justice or fairness, he only cared about Batman and the Joker because they where the reason he died.
“It would be too damn easy” is a cold ass line.
I still wish we would’ve gotten to hear Kevin read those lines. Greenwood did great here tho
It’s true though. Bruce understands that he’s unstable. He knows that if he crosses that line, he’ll become even worse than Joker. And the temptation to kill is always there. He has every mean and capability to kill literally every villain he’s ever faced but he holds himself back because he’s already figured out that he’d be even worse than Joker if he started killing
I really love this joker. He perfectly captures the psychotic, zero-fuck-giving, essence of the Joker while still making you wanna laugh with him sometimes. He fills that small void perfectly between Hamill and Ledger's geniuses.
Couldn’t have said it better!!!!!
This is John DiMaggio right?
@@djk1288 Yep, one and only
Never thought John DiMaggio would be one of my fav jokers
@@RageUnchained yea he's not too bad. Dimaggio's Joker is very demented😁😆😅
I'm not disappointed in Batman for not killing Joker.
I'm disappointed in Red Hood for not taking the shot, and doing what the Justice system should have done a long time ago.
Exactly. I think it puts into context that this isn't really about the Joker and more about Jason having a tantrum because he thinks Bruce didn't love him enough.
@@battlesheep2552To be honest, that description fits the Arkhamverse's Jason more, but I see what you mean.
Things are as they are. Not as they "should" be. Only weak people murder. I'm going to lay it for you boy. Young black boys are in the electric chair. This is "justice". This is "law". It starts with the excuses. It ends in child slaughter.
Batman is correct here. Don't. Just. Don't.
He couldn’t take the shot because Batman kept saving joker
Im pretty sure he wants Batman to do the deed not himself. If jason kills the joker right then and now it wont be appropriate and right because Batman wont have to "redeem" himself or learn a lesson from what he should have done. If the universe have one unbreakable rule, is that The joker can only truly die by Batman, not old age or killed by someone else or Sickness
this scene is so well made that most people miss the point entirely lol
batman isn't arguing that red hood is wrong at all, he just explains why he can't do it.
and red hood proves himself wrong when he chooses to shoot batman. this isn't about justice, it's about his own feelings.
if he was actually killing for the sake of justice he would have shot joker right then and there. but he shot batman instead, because that's what this is about, he's mad at batman.
yes it's very easy to argue for killing joker but that's not what the scene is about at all.
Right Sir. Thank you. Also Heros don't do bad things.
Batman in essence is basically admitting that killing may indeed just send him over the edge when he (and anyone else very familiar with the character) already has psychological issues. And if he does, there's not a lot in Gotham that could stop him.
Nope it was abt the joker. He could have killed the joker himself before batman even made his way to him. The simplicity of the matter is Jason didn't want to kill joker he wanted batman to do it just to avenge him. The Lazarus pit turns u into a survival machine takes u back to instinct and then emotion. It sometimes cannot bring back sanity or strong logic.
Bingo
Thank you! As a major Red Hood fan, a lot of people misunderstand the point of the movie!
It's ultimately 100% okay to side with Red Hood & wanting Batman to kill the Joker, but Batman himself, simply will not kill.
Masterful 10/10 movie, crazy how Jason just let his ass get beat senseless just to lure batman into his final plan xD
That line "Because he took me away from you" shows how much Jason loves and respects Bruce, not just as a mentor, but as a man, and a father Bruce was the only father figure Jason knew that actually gave a damn about him, cared about where he'll end up/his future.
So being taken away from the person who loved you two people who love you if you count Alfred which you should id be mad too if I came back to life and learned the men I saw as a father and grandfather figure didn't avenge me and kept the man who took me away from them alive. To continue putting folks through the same crap again, and again, and again
This is the best take on Batman's non-killing rule imo. Not that he can't kill because it makes him as bad as the criminals he fights, but because on the inside he knows he's such a hate-filled, violent monster that if he lets himself make excuses just once, it'll start a slippery slope of brutal, sadistic vengeance that just leaves Gotham a darker place. Batman wants to be a symbol of hope, not surrender to his worst impulses - and as the Joker will insist, he has plenty of those.
So why be a hero at all? If it's that easy for you to break and go on a killing spree, despite his apparent mental toughness and whatnot, just don't be a hero or whatever. The most abused, traumatized people still don't become mass murderers even if they had every chance to, and when someone kills their abuser they don't just start killing randomly after that. Some even feel guilty or disgusting AT THEMSLEVES even if it was absolutely justified and even the right thing to do. The logic just doesn't logic, you wouldn't let a psychopath be a hero normally anyway, why is he suddenly an exeption because he is that, if he's literally holding back from going on a murder rampage.
@@sipi2009 Because you can't put it back in the box. You can make excuses and say it was just that one time, but it's telling the world, other heroes, other villains, and Batman himself that he's hypocritical and can't be trusted. The point of being a hero is to be an inspiration, that people can be better than their past.
But if Batman kills the Joker, other villains are going to get a lot more vicious and start taking hostages if they hear that Batman is killing people who "deserve it", other heroes are going to keep him at a distance even more than usual, civilians are going to scared instead of having someone to look up to, the police are going to actively hunt him and not just grudgingly tolerate him. You might look down on the moral high ground, but there is power in being in the right.
I personally think there is a difference between killing the Joker in self-defense, either his life or yours, and actively being judge, jury, and executioner. Being a hero comes with responsibility to be on point or at least don't make the situation worse and you can't say killing the Crown Prince of Crime is best choice to make in that moment.
@@sipi2009 i mean you can be a hero without kiling lol
@@wesleywallace4426 eh i am pretty sure most would be happy batman killed him epsecially civilains
@@wesleywallace4426 And for that reason I prefer an antihero (vigilante) much more than a hero, in the end antiheroes are not interested in being admired or inspired, or that the other heroes love them, what they are interested in is doing a greater good for the entire population, even if that means killing those who avoid that
In the end I think that the vigilantes are more heroes deep down, than the heroes themselves and their moral code. That the heroes are more to make the the work easy for the authorities and be idols for children
Jason's voice acting was goated
Same actor who plays Soldier Boy
@@thenotoriousgigachad3455 he has a name ya know, Jenson Ackles
@@In_Thy_Flesh
Soldier Boy does a good job portraying both Red Hood and Jensen Ackles
Dean winchester wants to kill joker lol 🤣
And he also did Batman in the Long Halloween.
Jensen Ackles killed it as the voice actor for Jason.
Cartoon Network vs young Justice
YJ: I forgive you for cancelling me. But why? Why on gods green earth *kicks down door* is he still alive?
Teen titans go: *starts laughing*
YJ: Ignoring what he's done... Blindly, stupidly, disregarding the entire fanbase he's enraged. The thousands who have suffered. The characters he's ruined. I thought... I thought you cared about your fans.
Michael Canessa CN: you don't understand.....I don't think you've ever understood.
YJ: What? Your censors just won't allow for a show with good animation, likeable characters, good action and actual funny comedy? It's too hard to do any of that?
CN: no!!! God almighty no. It'd be too easy. All I wanted to ever do was cancel shows like Teen titans go! A day doesn't go by where I don't think about cancelling it. Having the teen titans cast and producer comeback to listen to every stupid thing the studio wrote for them and making them watch it like they've forced DC fans to listen to and then......cancelling it.
TTG: awwww so you do watch us.
CN: but if I do that. If I allow myself to go down into that place.....I'll cancel everything thing good and bad.
YJ: Why? I'm not talking about canceling Teen Titans forever. *points gun at TTG* I'm talking about him. Just him. I'm doing it because... Because he took me off the air.
you know this scene is one of the best scenes in animaton history
Nah. It's a good scene, but it doesn't leave a dent in terms of animation.
Javier Belmer yes it does it gives emotions and action and sadness it’s the best scene of all animations
@@SirBelmerD the animation isn't amazing, but the scene is very very good
Good scene
@@SirBelmerD it is
This is still my favorite scene from any Batman movie....animated or otherwise.
"I'm talking about killing him. Just him! And doing it because... because he took me away from you". Like damn man Jason is just so hurt. He feels like his dad abandoned him.
So many people don't recognize the difference between Jason Todd and Red Hood.
Jason Todd is the person saying:"I forgive you for not saving me."
"Because he took me away from you."
A son who didn't care that he DIED. He cared that someone hurt his dad.
Red Hood is the one who says:"Why is he still alive?" "If he had taken you from this world. I would have done nothing but search the planet for this pathetic pile of evil death worshipping garbage and sent him off to hell!"
The Punisher would have no trouble doing the deed.
that's why Jason is better than punisher
I beg to differ. Frank would've killed Joker. No discussion or questions asked.
Rudy Juarez
Then he would've did a badass monologue in his head as he walked away.
Yeah, internal monologue. Only talks to himself, no one else. I like that.
@@Legba85 yep, Punisher would've been real quiet about it. Joker would just suddenly vanish one day and batmans life would be way easier.
John Dimaggio and Mark Hamill are easily the best Jokers
IDK, Troy Bakers was pretty good too
Troy Baker is second best.
MICHAEL EMERSON IS THE MOST UNDERRATED JOKER EVER
So far as animated and video game Jokers go yes but I will alwas maintain that Heath Ledger’s Joker was the GOAT
John DiMaggio and Troy Baker’s Joker (Arkham Origins) are the best ones, imo. And that’s coming from someone who grew up with the 90’s animated series.
Jensen Ackles was quite literally the best voice actor for Jason so far in DC. Just embodies him perfectly.
Why is no one talking about how hilarious Joker's "Party pooper. No cake for you." line is?
Not only is it funny, but also shows how insane the Joker really is.
so out of all the things he's done, the most insane thing out of them is a simple line?
@@NorydMatos No he is talking about how this insane line seems mild next to everything else he has done and said.
@@NorydMatos
No, I'm just saying that with such a line in that sort of situation, it just shows how insane he is.
@@chubbyninja89
...I admire your ability to be impressed
If you think about it, Red Hood is doing a more effective job of cleaning up Gotham...
agreed, you can't stop crime, it will always be there. Jason's solution of controlling it is way more effective.
Becky Martin
But it could turn you into exactly what you swore to destroy.
Becky Martin Except innocents are still in the crossfire and hes just making a bigger body count
BardockHazar True, but at least he is minimizing the loss of innocent lives.
You think what Batman does is effective? All he does is send criminals to prison only for them to be released or broken out again and cause even more damage. What Red Hood is doing is more realistic and responsible in a way.
crazytuner111 But he's completly ignoring that no indivdual should have the right to be Judge Jury and Executioner if anybody can decide who should live and die than what is the point of law in the first place. And who's to say that Red Hood wasn't just patching it while Batman has his rogues causing large problems Jason's way will only increase the street crime and that would eventually lead to increase in crime. It would blow up in his face one day and he would lose control
"and then one with the cro-bar" hahahahahahaha
Ellis F that whole part was funny
i laughed at that too! infront of my dad ;-;
You be as quiet as possible, or I'll put one in your lap first.
and we got clowns like Zack Snyder saying this is irrelevant or uninteresting.
Exactly and then his excuses that he wanted to challenge them. Having Batman use guns is not a challenge that makes it so easy for him. It takes away all the nuance of his character. This is a challenge for Batman because it actually hasn't come to play on what to do. What Zack Snyder did was character assassination. There's a complete difference
Jensen Ackles could have easily won an Oscar for this performance. His acting is some of the best in any DC animated film in this scene.
"I do it because, because he took me away from you"
His voice was just down right bout to cry, they managed the best guy for Jason
Jenson Ackles does an excellent job voicing Jason here.
People still don't get it, even though Batman just spelled it out here. His no-kill rule isn't tied to a moral code of sorts, it's not about morality. It's personal and tied to his own trauma and limits. If he allows himself to kill, he'll lose it, and he knows it.
Thank you! I'm glad people are finally starting to realize this. I hate the whole " Batman's no kill rule is stupid" because it's not only people who don't understand the no kill rule called it stupid
what I love about this scene is that Jason wants bruce to kill joker, he wants to know that his death had any impact on bruce and that bruce would enact justice on the joker this time. That's why Jason doesn't just shoot joker outright after showing him to bruce.
I see why Dent says “you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian”.
Jason somehow managed to do both.
@@AllardRTnever thought bout this, but yeah this is true 😅😅
@@AllardRT jason isnt a villain, hes completely justified and right imo
@@Shaggy87781shooting bruce despite bruce letting him kill Joker lmao
@@safcjoe7062 yeah because bruce is also a villain. not to mention i interpreted it as a fit of rage, not actually red hood wanting to kill batman. I mean, his suit is bullet proof and jason knows this
It just occurred to me. Jason calls Batman "Bruce" in front of Joker. WTF!?!? NOW HE KNOWS!
Well by the looks of it he's in a closet so everything probably sounded muffled and based on his movement when jason broke down the door he looked like he was asleep or something.
Joker doesn't care about Batman true identity, he just was to his fun Batman.
Dude... that's fucking sick. Time to read that shit xD
***** I don't remember that scene. And I read that a few times.
+T vampasta I read it my first time like months ago. I remember it. cause Batman found a joker card in his cave. then he brought it to Joker in prison as Bruce.
I wonder if Zack Snyder has ever seen this movie, because it does a great explanation of exactly why Batman shredding goons like the Punisher doesn't happen and how to properly write the character.
He dropped the gun and walked away.
Sounds like a decision to me.
Batman kills, he becomes a monster. Joker wins.
Batman does nothing, Jason kills the Joker and forces the Batman to stop him. Joker wins.
Batman stops Jason and saves Joker, Joker lives to kill the next day. Joker wins.
The Joker won.
EDIT: This thing keeps getting traction somehow even though its nearly a decade old and I've come realize something about Batman fighting the Joker.
The REAL reason Batman can't permanently end the Joker in any way is cuz that would end the conflict, which would prevent DC from getting their money.
Cripling him for life? The Joker gets better with a convoluted "somehow".
Killing him? Noooo cuz that would be BAAAAAAD and BWAAAA.
Batman redeems the Joker? DC will LITERALLY tell you "Ignore that" and carry on like it didn't happen.
The Joker won cuz Batman is not allowed to win by editorial mandate.
that pretty much said it all
That's one I disagree with. Why would Batman become a monster just for killing Joker? Are those who execute convicted criminals monsters? Are soldiers who fight in wars monsters? And if anyone has ever deserved death, it's Joker. In fact, simply killing him would almost be too kind after all he's done. Still, I don't buy into this whole "putting a bullet between his eyes and ending him forever would somehow irredeemably change Batman" crap.
Slashco Say that after you've killed someone. The point is that no matter who it is or whether they deserve it or not, once you've started, it's easier to rationalize. Batman is supposed to be a symbol of hope in Gotham, and it's pretty hard to put your faith in a killer.
Batman's not above the law. He's not judge, jury, and executioner. Even if the Joker deserves it (which he does), Batman's not gonna become a murderer. Really its the justice systems fault for not executing the crazy bastard.
Better question. Why on earth, has the state not executed him? dude ha killed literally thousands...
The Joker's facial expressions are priceless. He is loving every second of this.
So do we. So do we.
This scene makes sense after A Death in the Family. Jason's conscience is running wild on him, trying to dictate him on who to kill.
He could've just killed the joker like he said he was going to if Batman wouldn't, but his mind was telling him to point his gun at Batman for turning his back on him in that moment.
Honestly, this may be the best superhero movie ever made
"Pathetic pile of death worshiping garbage" oh that line is like a juicy set of beef ribs. In a word perfection. 👌👏
This scene always hits me because, in my opinion, both sides are valid. If Batman HAD ended the Joker sooner, instead of just leaving him to the authorities, the graveyards would have very well been a LOT less crowded, Jason Todd wouldn't have been killed, and Barbara Gordon wouldn't have been crippled from the waist down. On the other hand, if Batman takes that action...how would he ever trust himself not to do it again? First time's always the hardest, and after that, it gets easier. And easier. And before you know it he's painting Gotham in the same amount of red as the very villains he swore to protect Gotham from.
Though one can make some counter-points against Batman's side of things, such as his years of martial arts training should have given him the discipline and mental fortitude to make logical judgements as to who to kill and who not to. Some could even say that the whole "It would be too easy" scene is just him saying "I have zero self-control"
Well it’s shown it’s taken so much of him to control. He’s made it his habit to control himself. Once that slope is crossed it turns into an avalanche. But yeah totally agree
Your comment makes me realize that none of the "normal people" are a part of the discussion of murdering Joker. Surely most people around Joker when he is being detained would also think about the possibility of killing him. Sometimes the corruption of Gotham is described as reaching the police too, sometimes the police are presented as a symbol of being more untainted than Batman since they stay within the law. Somewhere in that spectrum, this could be explored well in a story.
I just think Bruce needs to stop saving him when he's about to get it in the neck. Like at this point I'm not rooting for him to kill the joker but the logic in the books that he has to save him baffles me sometimes. Or at the very least hes a detective and Gordon is commissioner I'm sure they have plenty of evidence that pretty much guarantees the state puts joker down. I get comic book logic isn't real logic but sometimes it's a bit tiresome in instances like this.
Only weak people murder.
Strong people seek to teach. Inspire.
I would like to point out that batman isn't fully mentally stable either, he knows hence the no kill rule and has a grip on his sanity but if he intentionally takes a fellow person's life, understandable circumstances or not, he doesn't trust himself to stop after that one time
I don't fully like the no kill rule, I understand why it's there but sometimes you have to make a choice that you will have no other option but to kill
Everyone thinks batman is weak but it takes a strong man to admit to himself that he will lose control if he allows himself that moment of revenge
Batman is a legit psycho. Literally he shouldn't kill.
John DiMaggio's an underrated as hell joker, he did a great job
"party pooper, no cake for you." that was the cutest thing ever!
This movie was an absolute masterpiece. It perfectly captured Batman. Jensen Eckles did an absolutely fantastic job as Red Hood. Joker was insanely good. The dialogues sent chills down my spine. This movie has a lot of emotional depth to it and that's what I love. The execution, the layout it was perfect.
What movie is it?
@@zperk13
Under the red hood
*Ackles
*Soldier Boy
1:50
That sounds like a skill issue.
Dispuite everything Batman is that mentally unstable
I always thought it was more about Bruce being unable to become the thing that took away his parents.
@@adampatterson2195 to Bruce, it isn't just a some fancy moral code. Bruce made to his himself, his parents on their graves 🪦, and everyone he loves, maybe it's not something you would commit to or admire. But for someone like bruce, it's everything he lives, trains, and strives to be.
The best he can be, and if he isn't that then, he can't be anything at all.
2:45 joker is smiling even when he is being held at gunpoint 😂😂
“Party pooper no cake for you”😂
Masterfully done scene. It just brings so much depth to Robin and Batman. Well, done writers...well done.
This scene is a piece of art
Jason" this is all its been about, you me and him"
Bravo!! The very essence of that decision in a limited amount of time is the true moral of the story. Nothing can compare to this God i love this.
"Gotta give the boy points."
MY GOD John DiMaggio was brilliant as Joker.
3:40 always cracks me up
3:38
This movie was surprisingly great. Jensen Ackles does an amazing job voicing the Red Hood throughout... but especially in this scene. Just, wow. DiMaggio does a pretty insane Joker here too.
damn i didn’t even realize it was Jensen
Jensen ackles needs to do more voice acting
@@blackbulls8783
He’s also on “The Boys” if you’re interested
@@jamesvanitas he was phenomenal in the Boys, spoiler
I seriously doubt he's dead, they didn't kill Homelander because of his popularity so I'd be surprised in SB is gone, he immediately became a fan favorite.
John DiMaggio was also outstanding and funny as fuck as the joker he is actually the only joker portrayal that actually makes me laugh he has great lines and delivery its probably his comedic background he is probably the most diva joker 😅
u cant help agreeing with Jason's logic about batman's idiotic moral code about killing. but I have a question why does gotham not have the death penalty. I mean seriously how has the justice system in gotham not condemned him to death a thousand times over by now it makes no sense. no wonder Jason todd went insane...or maybe he is the only sane one in gotham...
+dragonhatcher12 Well, a city itself doesn't legislate new laws. The state does.
Captain Possible even so. my point was why is gotham not seem to give out the death penalty ever most of these villians have committed genocide and at this point as soon as they are captured by batman it should of been a straight shot to the fireing squad no waiting or jail just literally point and shoot him in the head,
+dragonhatcher12 In the comics, it's said that the Joker has a dream team of lawyers that manage to help him avoid the death penalty and just land back in Arkham Asylum
+dragonhatcher12 Well in real life America they don't always give put the death penalty to people even when they the chance to, like ironically the guy behind the Batman Massacre killed like 12 people including a 6 year old and was jailed and not condemned to death.
Toad Lash I thought they did kill that guy well gotham villians always escape from prison and then get caught and still never get exterminated. but yah that is ridicous that guy is still alive glad to know my tax dollars payin for a worthless justice system that doesn't believe in the death penalty want happen to firing squads screw this lethal injection crap shoot the bastards In the head or go real medieval like a beheading that way they can keep using the same axe and not wast tax money
"And doing it because... because he took me away from you."
Jason sounds so much like a teenager here, the one that died and suffered. Not in the sense that it's childish or that Jason is failing to understand what Bruce means. It's a son who wants his father's love and felt like he loved his father more than his father loved him when his father let his killer walk free. Jason was right in many ways - the moral code is stupid and something only Bruce can obtain (and Bruce heavily straddles that line himself). But to know that a moral code stood in the way of your father getting justice for you, even if he is Batman, and he never did it, and he knows you would have crossed that line for him a long time ago.. it would break anyone's heart.
I so think people also forget that in the og Death In The Family Comic it does seem heavily implied that he might have killed the Joker if he had been given the chance but the Joker got away
"I'm not talking about killing Penguin, or Scarecrow, or Dent! I'm talking about _him!_ JUST *_HIM!"_*
I like this quote. It shows that while Red Hood is perfectly fine with killing, he still understands restraint. Sure, it's more out of a motivation for avenging his death by a specific person's hands, but I think that if Jason went up against more sympathetic villains like Two-Face & Mr. Freeze, he may not kill them because they're not truly deserving of death.
Dent was a good man who was genuinely broken, he deserves to be saved. And Freeze's motivations were almost always toward curing his wife Nora, what he needs is either extensive therapy and counciling to accept that Nora simply can't be saved, or help with developing the cure he's been so desperate to find. Neither one of them deserve a bullet through the brain while monsters like Joker, Victor Zsasz, and Professor Pyg absolutely need to be put down before they inevitably hurt another innocent person.
It's ironic, because Two-Face was Jason's _original_ to-kill-or-not-to-kill rogue, back when he was Robin. He was the one who'd killed Jason's parents.
Penguin is a crime lord?? And definitely a bad dude like bane. Killer croc??
@@mahersalthomas1739 The worst Penguin deserves is maximum security lockup, same with Bane.
But frankly, what crock deserves is to just be treated better. He wasn't always a monster, people just acted like he was until he just accepted it. At the very least, he should maybe have his bad memories erased so it may be easier to transition him into being more of a good guy
2:30 Uh...Jason how do I hold this?
So for those of you that don't understand Bruce, let me give you a scenario in the form of Superman that most of you may know, in Injustice Clark never killed anyone before, he went through torture just as Bruce in case of Bruce as Jason, Clark's was that the joker made him kill both Lois and his unborn child. He was so furious and agitated he killed Joker once, and he never stopped...same with Bruce, when people say he is batshit insane they aren't exaggerating inside of Bruce is still a boy crying for his parents behind the mean demeanor, he never got over it, in the canon flashpoint comics he cried for the first time reading Thomas's letter, he is crazy like Joker, the point of Batman vs Joker as his archenemy is both are insanely similiar, both are equally crazy the only one difference between Joker and Batman is that Bruce refused to go down the path of going the easy way and killing people, take that away he's no better than the Joker. The moment Bruce kills anybody I guarantee he won't be coming back the moment someone kills someone and knows it's justified they have a sense of it's not that bad, Bruce knows this, and he knows he'll enjoy killing,but he doesn't want to. So when this happens it means Joker wins even if he dies he wins, because he broke the bat, no matter what Bruce will never turn on his ways, because he knows what he's capable of.
There are various anti-heroes that kill bad guys and don't turn into evil dictators that kill all who stand against them. Executing criminals was really common an just an century ago, judges and executors didn't suddenly became evil caricatures.
@@kinsmart7294 where talking about Batman tho, not some random guy.
@@kinsmart7294 that’s different though Batman is not an anti hero
@@kinsmart7294
Some of them did.
When you take someone as deranged as Batman and have them take a life. There are some who cannot stop afterwards.
Hell there were serial killers who’s first murder was a crime of passion which ended up turning into a spree. It makes sense.
But. Batman has killed before..
This and flashpoint are some of the best bodies of work DC ever put out . Thank you
This joker voice actor is GOOD
I know Batman's no kill rule is important to him, but I agree with Jason 100%
This is turning out even better that I hoped 2:58
*Batman drops gun and walks away
@@genghiskhan2056"İt's Him or Me, you have to decide!..."
@@greenthepokemontrainer3358 decide now do it him or me decide 3:15
*Batman slips a batarang into his hand
@@IPostMeAndMyFriendsRecordings *Gun exploded and Jason grunts*
John DiMaggio's more gruff voice really does make a great Joker
He's still Jake the dog.
3:12 but that's the thing Jason. He won't stop you from pulling the trigger. You can have your revenge.
What you're trying to do... Maybe he should have done it himself. But that has to be a choice. You can't force him to. Despite being your father...he's still his own person.
Do Jason and dick exist together or are they two separate characters in different versions of Batman?
@@enterprisewhiskey8999 same universe.
3:48 I fucking love that line
Dr. Gundeath Punchface-enstein it strangely sums up a lot of the tragedy of Batman where most of his victories come with a great sacrifice
It’s unsettling how well John DiMaggio plays the Joker. I still prefer Mark Hamill but in this one movie he definitely came close to capturing the Clown Prince of Crime’s insanity just as well.
0:17 im sry, the way the joker scooted up on the chair KILLED me
Jason is 100% correct here.
think of this scene and compare it to the Miller's Dark knight returns as Batsy finally does the job
I'm a huuuuge Batman fan but on this one, I have to side with Jason. Sometimes the good guys have to do bad things to make the bad guys pay. Simple as that. Justice in it's purest form cannot be delivered with exceptions or moral codes. It's raw, ugly, monstrous maybe, but when need be, it must be done.
Batman said it himself, he cannot let himself do what he actually wants to do, or he'd become the monster he is trying to fight. If he were to use all of his resources available to him to simply murder every villain, he would be the most terrifying individual Gotham has ever seen. That is something that he just cannot allow himself to become.
I half agree. I think joker is to far gone to help and to dangerous let love but I don't think Brice should kill him. I want the people of Gotham to do is cause the could so easily do it but prefer to leave evwyup to the dark night. He clean up the mess than we some happens they can blame him.
Once you allow yourself to be the arbiter of where the line is of someone being 'too far gone for help' you give yourself permission to move the line. How long until the other villains Jason listed are 'too far gone' as well? Batman exists to protect people, not to deliver justice. He's not the jury, not the judge and not the executioner. And it would be a dangerous road to go down to allow himself to be so.
@@aduboo29 never said Batman was. I said the city should do it. I'm not saying we shouldnt try to help the villain since they are broken people but there need to be a limit. We can only do so much for some one who is constantly braking out and killing people just to make a point to Batman.
Well it’s less “To make the bad guys pay” than it should be “To stop anymore innocent lives from being taken”. If you take the revenge route you’re turning into exactly what Batman fear- but if Bruce simply (I know it’s not this simple) changed his mentality to saving innocent lives rather than revenge, he’d have a much easier time taking out Joker
Jason is the after-product of what happens when Joker goes too far and kills someone close to Batman. I usually love Batman, and I still do. But Jason is right here: The Joker needed to pay for killing Jason, and I'm mad at Batman for not killing him, even though he says he wants to. Batman is usually shown as this invincible superhero that always wins, but in reality, he had to deal with the loss of Jason, and now he has to deal with the loss of Damian. People say he's an invincible hero that always wins, but I don't believe that. Sure, he may always win, but it comes at the price of losing your family, and in this case, it's his parents, it was Jason, and now it's Damian. In some aspects, I love Red Hood more than I do Batman, because Bruce isn't willing to kill, but Jason is. And Jason is the way he is because Batman won't kill. And that's why I prefer Red Hood over Nightwing, when it comes to favorite Robins. I mean, Nightwing is cool and all, don't get me wrong, but to me, Red Hood is the better one not because of his personality, or his choice of weapon, or even his outfit; it's because of his backstory and origin of why he is the way he is, and when you think about it, it's understandable he is the way he is because of what happens, Lazarus Pit or not.
Red Hood's popularity is said to come from the fact that he's just an anti-hero who uses guns, or is just plain different from the other Robins, but I like him because his entire Red Hood persona comes from the fact that Batman doesn't kill, and unless Batman starts killing (which is highly unlikely), or Red Hood forgets about his days as Robin (haven't been keeping up with Red Hood and the Outlaws FYI), this will never change, and that is what makes this story arc one of the best Batman movies, hell one of the best DC Comics animated movies ever, in my opinion at least. Red Hood is one of my favorite anti-heroes/heroes and my favorite Robin, and I seriously hope he gets more screentime in the future, whether it be in movies, video games, or tv shows. Hell, if in the future, Red Hood and Batman ever team up again for whatever reason (except for a bullcrap reason like what happened in Batman and Red Hood #20), then I will be pleased because as much as Red Hood is angry at Batman for not killing Joker, I feel that Red Hood should still be apart of the Bat Family, regardless of whether he kills or not.
I do agree with you up to a certain point. Still if Batman did kill Joker, yeah it will give Gotham a huge favor, but there is no telling what Batman would do next if he decided to kill the bad guys. Because revenge just doesn't stop like that, it could grow. And you can't leave out the other heroes perceptions of Batman doing that act, especially Superman and other allies in this what if scenario. Thing is, the real truth is that the battle between good and evil is seemingly never-ending. Even if the worst criminals in the DC universe died by the hands of the good guys, it wouldn't be the real end of the villains, they'll find a way to pop right back up and cause trouble again. Its easy to kill, but the action still has an effect in more ways than you realize, and even if someone would let it slide, how many people will start thinking a bit differently if they knew their ally started killing from now on and as a result, some may have no problem, but others may still have a problem, to the point they fear their hero may become an imminent threat more worst than other villains should he or she turn into a villain or at least something more radical and that concern turns to fear. Now I know I've seen a lot of super heroes who have done it already or attempted to kill. And it is hard to not do it because a villain does more crimes not only to the citizens but the heroes loved ones. I almost forgot that when it came to the Joker, many times he deserved death row, many times the justice system in the DC World was too weak to even see that insanity provided too much a dang cover for Joker to eventually get out of arkham and kill again, since he is aware of what he's doing.
Also, Jason should have shot Joker anyway in this scene, at least Batman wouldn't have to do it, but he turn his gun on Batman, and Bats anticipated that. Well at least the two of us have our opinions, I know I wanted Joker dead at times when he does that s**t in the comics, TV, and games, but let someone else do it, the Justice system could have sentenced him Joker to death many times, and there's someone else who wanted Joker's head, but Batman shouldn't have to especially if he does have reasons. Well its what my opinion, and it is interesting to see what others have to say.
leon4000 Oh yeah, that was my only problem with the movie: Jason should have just shot and killed Joker right then and there, but at the same time I understand why he didn't, because he wanted Batman to do it so Jason can have a sense of relief, knowing his mentor and adopted father got revenge for Jason's death.
On another related note, *SPOILERS*
The Joker died in Batman: Arkham City.
*END SPOILERS*
And with Joker gone in Batman: Arkham Knight, taking place one year after Arkham City, I RRREEEEEEEAAALLLLYYYYYY want to see Jason Todd/Red Hood in Arkham Knight and his reaction to Joker's death. He must probably be the only person that's not a civilian to be happy about this. I REALLY hope Red Hood is in Arkham Knight XD
Flare Vortex I highly doubt the joker is really dead.
Bringing him back from the dead in Arkham Knight would make the ending of AC completely pointless, and Rocksteady isn't stupid enough to actually bring him back :P
Batman's moral code is bullshit. In reality he isn't helping much. Most of the villains kill innocent civilians. That's why Jason is a better batman imo.
Seen this many times and keep getting in awwww.....the acting chemistry between the 3 is beautiful.
“Aww, you do think about me.” - Joker
3:28 Batman dodged a fucking bullet after it was fired,just a human my ass,the plot armor is his greatest strength
Im thinking he was prepared to move before the bullet was fired, and that they moved at the same time.
***** That would imply he moved at the speed of sound
Epidemic Pain Bullets don't move at the speed of sound. he predicted the bullet would be fired and because his reflexes are trained to the limit he was able to move as soon as the trigger was being pulled.
DBfan106
The bullet already left the chamber before batman even started moving,its not physically possible for a human to dodge that
No matter how good your reflexes are
Epidemic Pain comic book logic.
Party pooper, no cake for you XD
Lets be honest, Bender makes an amazing Joker
"Ahhh so you do think about me." 😂
1:41 awww so you do think about me 😌😏
Lmaoo 😂
10 years later and this movie is still great
This is just amazing because of the conflicting sides it’s just so well written
"party pooper,no cake for you"
That's the most funniest thing I ever heard from joker in this movie
Because he took me away from you. That line hit hard man. It really did.
I gotta love this scene in this movie. Batman and Jason just having an emotional moment here and Joker just ruining it with his constant joking of the situation. Such a Joker move here. It’s funny and yet frightening to think about
Jason is such a cool type of character to me because its a very specific kind of irony used to pull on the heartstrings and question the character themselves in a way I've only really seen in something like Vergil from Devil may cry. anti hero eventually working for/as the enemy they originally wanted to stop. In dmc its Vergil becoming everything that Mundus was (power hungry and obsessed with defeating anyone in their way), here its Jason helping joker break batman and forcing him to break his rule. Both times its completely unbeknownst to them as well
When soldier boy meet the cape crusader
Joker: Bite my shiny white skin ass.
I thought you were Asian.
I am. I was just trying to tell a joke about how John Dimaggio voices the Joker. He also voiced Bender in Futurama, and he always saids, "Bite my shiny metal ass."
***** YES
Jason Todd has a point. No matter how many times Joker put in the asylum, he breaks out and kill people again, and again, and again, and AGAIN until you realize he is a monster.
I remember I watched this movie with my papa when it came out, and we were expecting a typical action movie but were so pleasantly surprised to find it to be a drama about the relationship between Batman and Robin. So good.
Don't blame Batman. He's not the one who keeps letting Joker and everyone out of Arkym