I've read or listened to several books that have knowledge on how to live a better life. None of it really stuck til I stumbled on stoicism. I don't know why, it just seem to pull it all together in a way that has given me results. Its been two weeks now and my mental state has already improved. Also, I haven't thought about journalling being a form of meditation, but now that I've heard you say it, it's true. I started journally when I picked up stoicism. I don't think about or plan what I'm going to write. It's more like channeling the chaotic thoughts through my pen onto the paper. It solidifies my understanding of the topic, and after my mind is quieted. I think that is why stoicism stuck, I felt the serenity of a quiet mind in the first time that I can remember.
@@33rdStreet however consciousness whatever it is if you are Normal or a schizophrenic whatever appears even if we are in a simulation consciousness can’t be an illusion
I think there was a vital opportunity that was missed with this podcast! I love both Ryan and Sam, and would've loved for them to talk more about the paradigm differences of Stoicism and Buddhism / meditation. For example, how these two practices differ in dealing with thoughts and emotions. The practice Sam talks about seems to go about it in a very deep way, uprooting our basic understanding of our own reality, whereas Stoicism seems to rely of a more traditional western understanding of a self (people like Marcus Aurelius even use the word and concept of a soul when speaking to himself ) that is using rationality to divert negative thoughts and emotions into more helpful states. Really a shame that a talk on these deeper differences and overlaps between the two philosophies were missed!
Sam is talking about Mindfulness Meditation and Ryan is talking about "small-m" meditation - two different things. Sam brings up hallucinogenic substances and Ryan tries to connect that to Stoicism. Again, Ryan tries to speak intelligently about something he knows nothing about. In these cases, he would have been far better off just listening. Or simply said he's never tried them, or he's not interested in trying them. Finally, Ryan missed the opportunity to pivot, and discuss Sam's ideas of the self, as Sam suggested. Ryan sounded like he was just winging it. So yes, this was hard to listen to.
Haha … that’s a pretty serious compliment … but of course, Sam is so thoughtful and could explain quantum physics to a mosquito. Can you imagine being married to him? 😂😂 “darling would you pass the salt without remembering your father’s excessive consumption of it?” Or to his dog, “I can’t take you outside now, it’s raining. Think about the door knob only …” I would love to live in his home for a month in one day … He is a treasure. After listening to him for several months, I now believe that mindfulness should replace religion and “Father Sam” should replace “Sam” 😂❤
Sam Thank you for your meditation practice and your teachings of mindfulness. It really helped me when I needed it the most. You. Have helped people , like myself . 😊
I've always felt we really need to flesh out and incorporate a general philosophy as a society. We need to get our values settled, abandon consumerism and go after wisdom and Truth on scale. Then war will be completely unthinkable, people will really be at their best. And no, problems won't disappear. But why can't society at large be taught the value of Truth? Start teaching kids young, it'll transform the world almost instantly.
@@JD..........you’ve been confused by spiritual jargon. There definitely is a you, it’s just not the idea you have of yourself in your own head. It’s the presence and aliveness right now.
i think though they rarely cite it, I think they are clearly in the Charles Tart / George Gurdjieff vein of thought about the human experience to the world. I love it.
I love mindfulness, meditation, and yoga. Theyve helped so much to overcome many addictions and physical impairments. I love being outside in nature, God's wonderful creation while i practice. I ask the Holy Spirit to direct my movements and stretch my body and take my pain away. Thanks Sam!
@@phiamanNot always. He slips, as do we all. About a year ago, someone came into his shop concerned about co. Vid and he called her well crafted, actually polite letter out on social media. In addition to this, Ryan himself titled it, "She didn't leave her name, but I'm betting it was Karen." He has since removed said post after a wave of backlashh.
@@Amanita._.Verosa._. "We make mistakes. It happens. The idea that it shouldn’t affect a Stoic? Preposterous. No amount of training, Seneca writes, takes away natural feelings. So it’s OK that you don’t like what happened. What matters is what happens next." -- Ryan Holliday So, what happened next? We probably don't know, but perhaps he improved.
Hi Ryan, thanks for talking with Sam Harris, im a long time fan of his and have been practicing stoicism roughly 3 years, reading the classics, W.B. Irvine and yourself. I enjoyed this conversation and came away with this thought: Sam is quite intellectual in his approach and is where he spends most of his time, whereas you seem to want to inhabit both the intellectual and the practical simultaniously. Thank you Im a subscriber to the waking up app too (4 years) and have benefitted from both Sam and stoicism. Just an observation
I personally have been drawn into the morass that is eastern philosophy and stoicism and have navigated these waters with great caution and have found it to be very rewarding.
Ryan Holiday is much more than that (repeating what others say)…he is very highly prepared and curious about how to get into the bones of what it takes to build an inner citadel that is required to function in the world…especially towards and about those of us who are just on the surface of our understanding.
Yes to all of us who are quite moved and inspired by Sam Harris and Ryan Holiday….Two mavericks sowing the seeds of the future renaissance that is waiting in the wings for human beings to begin (again) to cultivate the river of energy that moves us towards the flourishing, robust dynamic necessary to live in the excellent pursuit of being the best that we can. Alhamdullilah, How fortunate I am to have discovered these two formidable forces for good in the 🌎 ❤️🔥🔥world
With psychedelics I think it’s the Noetic quality of the revelations gained during the experience that give them greater value than simply reading it from a self help book which is often left un-integrated into the self.
Buddhism and Stoicism, the best of the West meets the best of the East. My life is dedicated to this. I get all my strength from there. God may exist, perhaps not. It's not that important to me. To live meaningfully, with dignity, creatively, to be at peace with oneself and try to be an upright and chivalrous man with strong integrity and equanimity is my everything.
If I hadn’t done acid in my 20s there’s no way I would’ve been the person I am today. I understand that it’s not for everybody but holy sh$t did my mind expand and made me a better me.
Same. I don’t doubt meth and crack also have the ability to impact your life, but I’d like to believe psychedelics have the ability to transform your sense of self and perception of others in a non-harmful way when compared to the side effects that meth and crack may induce lol
@@AmazingOwnage"chemicals are inherently bad and every one of them interfaces with the brain exactly the same." The clowns above you definitely drink every single night 😂
On psychedelics, Sam's response resonated with me. I've tried medium doses a few times in life and have zero regrets. I agree with Sam that the experience of the high itself is illuminating in ways that other modes of exploration or experience may not reach, and it's a difference in experience that I would not be able to articulate, aside from labeling it a kind of bliss, contentment, or "heart"-filled presence. Ryan saying that people who've used them that he's spoken to haven't ever really said anything about life in general that's any more enlightening or true than what you get from books or sober introspection is understandable. Relying on what people say about their experience with psychedelics as a metric for their value I think will always fall short of what they can actually do. However, I'll take people's word for it to never try heroin, cocaine, etc. I agree with Ryan that "the work" seems to be more than taking a dose of something. But there's overlap. The work of reading and meditating and other sober forms of exploration are maybe more disciplined and intentional than the effects of a high; but I think that a disregard of the high itself as valuable enlightenment-wise lacks appreciation of the conscious, reasonable decisions about why to get high to begin with, the conscientiousness and mindfulness (however altered) of the user throughout the high, and the utility of the courage or intentionality of the user to "let go" for the duration of the high to see what happens in order to let the trip act as an aid to insight into our lived, day-to-day experience; it's similar to the way people try to apply the insights gained from books. A book can take hours to read, and a trip can last for hours; both are kind of immobilizing in the moment and are meant as a means of reaching a higher state of understanding or experience. I know people who have read widely and got titles and degrees who are full of shit, just like there are users of drugs who lose sight of the reason they're using or care for the way they handle coming down; depends on your limits and reasons. Although the "peak" experience of a high is not consistent with the day-to-day needs of life, it does give some perspective as to what the day-to-day problems people face are really made of, and it can help to resolve the deeply felt and sometimes destructive emotions that are grounded in the illusion of self and ego, which for me were illusions that psychedelics helped free me from during the high. Part of the peak effects make me just want to get high again. But another part makes me aware in ways that I wasn't before of what value my life actually has and in contrast, what importance the petty day-to-day problems I tend to create are really worth.
I'm in love with Sam's vocabulary. Every time I listen to him I gain 2 or 3 new words. Sam is proof that while everybody can talk, only very few can speak (or are speakers)... if you know what mean.
I just subscribed. I’m looking so forward in continuing my knowledge & growth. I just barely graduated from high school. Just been working most of my life & always struggled in handling my day to day. I feel like I’m on a journey to living a potentially more vibrant life full of awareness & my realizing my worth to the world & myself.
An absolutely game changing take away for me on how to apply stoicism in my day-to-day life.... learn to use those moments when you feel anger, frustration, anxiety, fear... as triggers to kick off your inner stoic, so to speak, so you can apply the right reaction(s), or non-reaction, to the moment. Just like when you feel heat from a flame your built-in automatic reaction is to pull away from it. Learn to recognize those moments until it becomes almost innate in you to marshal the tools needed to handle them in the best way.
It is true that Sam really has to measure up to the last thing he's said, with his viewers/listeners. I appreciate that, I don't agree with him on every position. But I've found that listening to him allows me the benefit of thinking deeply rather than having a knee jerk reaction to things, and forcing myself to have an opinion to stand behind before I've really taken the time to appreciate how I feel. Great interview!
I love your content. I’ve followed Sam for a long time and I am a subscriber of the waking up app. I may be wrong. But, I felt like you may have a blind spot on psycodelics and meditation. You came across to me at least, as a little dismissive of them. I think that there might be more there for you, that has yet to be discovered. Something that will not be found in a book. I love your content. I love your books. Hope that doesn’t come across as criticism. Just suggesting that there might be useful revelations hiding in those areas.
Thank you very much for this really really really amazing discussion, the last 3 months have been the hardest of my life, my nervous system became insanely sensitive causing reoccurring panic attacks and disturbing obsessive thoughts, I'm taking my life back step by step with stoic principles and mindfulness practices. Thanks very much ☘️
@@careforalla it's not easy bro but it does get better, I downloaded the dare app, along with incorporating stoic philosophy I'm making great progress, I've had anxiety and OCD my whole life but this hit me like a truck, Im very mindful that thoughts are not mine and I let them pass by without judgement, ruminating was my worst habit learning thinking is an active choice and my responsibility was very helpful I now no longer ruminate, acceptance is the key word in recovery accepting thoughts and feelings without judgement or attachment and continue living life, eventually all the symptoms will fade away. I really really wish you strength courage and confidence in your journey, honestly this will make us better people in the long run☘️
Sam - people from the East need to listen to you more. Please market yourself in countries like Pakistan, India, Afghanistan more. Your ideas are priceless and could certainly be a helpful contribution for the transformation of our societies
That ending was so wholesome. Feels like the interview was ending and he just willfully came back to add some additional words of love. Great convo you two ❤
This conversation reminded me how Alan Wallace suggests the difference between meditating for hedonistic benefits (alleviate suffering/stress/pain relief/dukkha), and meditating in the attempt to grasp the deeper nature of reality (Buddhadharma/liberation/ego or self-dissolution ). Although Siddhis seem to go further and say that there are forms of meditating that allow you to perform extra-ordinary abilities, like alchemy, clairvoyance, astral projection and summoning aliens! If that's the case, would love to know the specific differences between Kundalini / Tantra (the more esoteric practices of Hinduism/Buddhism), Yoga (Isha-Upa/Kriya, Shambhavi Mahamudra , Aurobindo/Lord Hanuman), and the occult (Aghori / Freemasons (Inspector General)/Black-Magick/hermetic-order). I assume they differ in the yantra (tool) , tantra (technique) and mantras (utterance).
Marcus Aurelius: "Objective judgment, now at this very moment. Unselfish action, now at this very moment. Willing acceptance-now at this very moment-of all external events. That’s all you need."
Sam is so right in describing thoughts as half lifes they come and go like cloud's in the sky if left alone only when you become involved with your thoughts they become full life's and take on some illusory meaning. As humans we have thoughts thats part of the human condition. Ask yourself are you conscious or concerned about blood circulating your body? Or you're digestive system working? Or your heart beating 💓? Id guess probably not. So why are we so concerned with our thoughts when they crop up in our conscious? Its because we misidentify them as ourselves we give them meaning, and we become unconscious, we become our thoughts. Watch your thoughts, allow them to come watch them, and allow them to pass. It's not personal it's human conscious your no different from anyone else we humans have thoughts. it's what we humans do just dont identify with them.. You only need to observe.
Ryan, mate, get your mits on some mdma at your soonest opportunity, there is no downside that Stoicism' won't get you through and the opening of your heart be revelationary, its like Sam painted it, you really get a positive shift in perspective that is life enhancing. I have huge amounts of respect for both you guys and never imagined to be qualified to advise either of you ever, however, humbly, in this instance..... I'm not convinced mdma is indeed a pyschadelic but it will open your heart, and to be in the awareness of that has nothing but positive repercussions.
Obviously the work is applying the insights but the insights also include having a wide range and variety of experiences to TEACH you and to learn these many aspects of the mind. Consciousness isn’t limited to your waking everyday life and although we return back to it after a psychedelic experience there is zero evidence this world is the real one and that one is not. Just say that you are afraid to try it and have the experience and I would respect that more then playing of what you trying to say is “reality” and what is not. That’s easy to say when you’ve never dared to have the experience yourself enough to judge for yourself. That’s a cop out excuse and an undertone of judgement towards others who have actually yes, done the work, which it is ALL relevant and part of doing.
I agree that you can make the same break throughs you would on pschadelics without them. When I took acid I had the first hand experience that everything is a vibration, that everything is connected, and it wasnt anything in particularly new for me because I had already somewhat gotten that from my meditation and other practices, but I can see how psychedelics can jump start the journey for alot of people who aren’t listening to the self with some sort of meditative practice or trying to garner wise insight about life.
There’s very strong empirical evidence that psychedelics can change people’s life and mind (ie depression, anxiety, addiction, and hospice studies) but it’s one of those things that you really must experience yourself to understand how powerful they are. It’s a sort of manual override that causes a kind of ego death that teaches you lessons you can take in to your normal life…. if you do it right which is a very big if.
IF by Rudyard Kipling If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies, Or being hated, don’t give way to hating, And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream-and not make dreams your master; If you can think-and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools: If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’ If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much; If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And-which is more-you’ll be a Man, my son!
Neither mind altering drugs, nor meditation have resonated with me. What has begun to work for me is continuing study of both western and eastern philosophies, and daily, hourly mindfulness. It is, for me, just like physical fitness, continuous attention and effort.
If meditation has not worked for you then what is your mindfulness practice if you do not include sitting? The waking and middle (meditation) state play off of one another. I suggest exploring different traditions - both spiritual and secular. Have fun!
Mindfulness is a form of meditation. A lot of meditation is just mindfulness while sitting but there’s no rule that says you must sit while doing it, it’s just a tool
Please, check the Audio volume on this, cause my Phone and headphones are at maximum and with little outside noise it gets tricky to understand clearly (New listener, so maybe it is a one-time thing) Much appreciated ❤
I'm a advocate for psychedelic therapy. Psychedelics can help someone see reality in a way they haven't been able to. For example let's say you were bitten by a dog at a young age and your family never had one. You would probably have a fear towards dogs and be hesitant if you came across one in the streets. Compared that to someone who always had a family dog, they would look at dogs in a way different light. This is just one example/ experience that can make us see reality completely different. Psychedelics could make take that extra step back and see it all for what it is. I will see it's not for everyone, some people are already to mentally unstable that it could do more damage than good. But it should be a option doctors can offer under controlled sessions
yesssss, i really like your ideas and the way you communicate them ryan, what you are doing and how you are navigating through the concept of stoicism is unparalleled, and i also love sam harris for his rationality and his continuous strive for the improvement of our conscious experience, with that being said, i cant wait to watch this episode, well done for talking to him
The problem with worry “either you can do something or you can’t”, is when you KNOW you can do something or that there is a solution. But you don’t know what it is.
Sure, but worry doesn’t help you figure out the solution. You can recognize that the worry alerted you to the problem, but after that it serves no function if you actually want a solution
A common error I see people make is the belief the Sankara's Advaita Vedanta is the essence and summation of Hindu philosophy. In fact there are five other robust theistic forms of Vedanta that subsume the concept of nonduality of consciousness within them and yet retain the individuality of the atma in relation to its maker, Bhagavan.
I just want to hop in here and say that the “work “ when it comes to psychedelics is usually what comes after the peak experience. Hence, putting the insights to work. That’s the hardest bit. At least that’s how I’ve experienced the word used in that context.
From the conversation it seems that Ryan either doesn't have yet a reference experience for mindful meditation or is talking about something else. It's a shift of perspective, it's not something you do, it's something you are, so to speak.
All of them are mental practices once they are fully distilled and mentally interacted with. Stoicism is very straight up and very close to plain language, closer to modern psychology in sound, effect and purpose. Buddhism is the same teaching but nested in cryptic verbiage for the student to work through and wire their brain. But sometimes we get what Buddha teaches in plain language too. Buddha's first line in the Dhammapada. "All that we are is the result of what we have thought. It is founded on our thoughts, it is based in our thoughts." The Buddha. Stoicism 101
I've been practising meditation (poorly) for a few years now.... Was justified in feeling anger a few days ago and felt great that I'd managed to process that emotion in about 15 minutes... To do it in 10 seconds, Sam, you're the Buddah incarnate! 😂... Still, I'm grateful the news i recieved didn't floor me for too long! ❤
Love this- attack the "force majeure" with the things that you can control with 110% effort- don't worry about the naysayers, and doubters. Love the dialectic of the occidental versus non-occidental philosophy. The ideal is to have both working for you in harmony. I am a firm believer in the Waabi Saabi philosophy=]
Interesting discussion! Psychedelics seem to facilitate a gestalt of wisdom collected piecemeal. Like connecting the dots. Experientially, they’re akin to feeling your toes in the sand while watching the sun set over the ocean, as opposed to looking at a picture of a sunset or reading a paragraph about it. On the whole, it seems more visceral than intellectual.
The worst type of worry is money troubles. You need money NOW but all you can do is wait for that next paycheck. Constantly wondering if you are going to make to next week. Of course someone could try and get a higher paying career but that won’t solve my money troubles NOW For example I’m trying to become a backend web app developer and studying everyday is tough while my money trouble worries are constantly playing in the background of my head
A friend at work asked me how I was doing and told her, “Not very well”. Sheila asked me if I’d rather be happy? “Of course”,I said. “Just be happy” she said. And that changed my life.
I feel Ryan doesn’t understand that “the work” is much less “work” with psychedelics. These insights can spontaneously come to be in your own mind, Marcus Aurelius doesn’t have to tell you how always.
Yes, there seems to be a tendency towards “no pain, -no gain” -type of mentality there. That is the aspect I have against the stoics in general. In truth we always have the possibility to access the sublime freedom, in every moment throughout. Sure, it may seem to us as “the work” when we in the beginning are trying to get into the habit of catching the present moment of awareness. In a way we are trying to re-programming our ways of meeting reality and that takes some conscious effort for sure. But the real point with meditation is actually what’s happening in our minds between the sessions of meditation. Is our meditation having an effect on us such that we are becoming more aware and mindful effortlessly in our daily activities, or is our experience during meditation not having any impact on us of a more ‘contagious’ nature that is not spilling over into our daily routines at all? I think Sam said it very well when he said that the purpose of meditation is to get familiar with our basic ground of inherent wisdom rather than being an exercise in fabricated states or contrived experiences. Just like enlightenment and the ultimate freedom itself meditation is not about creating or producing anything. It is what’s left when the mind is settled in a completely free state of uncontrived awareness. Freedom arise when the mind remains naturally unperturbed regardless of what arises. At that point the duality of pure and impure stops being relevant criteria for the mind. Whatever arises is instantaneously liberated into the vast expanse of awareness and no further elaborations or proliferations occur. This is the Freedom that is referred to within the Buddhist traditions. As we progress in our meditation practice we start to get glimpses of these unfabricated moments of just being aware. Then we start to understand the timeless nature of our own ground nature and the strong tendency towards the mechanistic dichotomy of efforts and results starts to loosen its grip over us. We then realize that our true nature is always accessible and need no improvement or embellishments. The practice is to let go of all the constructs that block us from having a constant relationship with our basic nature. The term “letting go” is such a potent and vital term in Buddhist practice. In reality it refers to literally dropping or abandoning all obstacles such as opinions, viewpoints, misguided intentions, etc. The ideal is to have a natural mindfulness that ensures that wisdom arise within each moment of experience effortlessly and thus each moment is naturally a moment of freedom. This is something that’s very hard for most people to understand. But enlightenment can never be a chore or a task. That wouldn’t be an authentic enlightened state or experience at all. The reason why chemically induced exalted experiences do not remain permanently is because these experiences are reliant on causes and conditions to arise. They may give glimpses into modes of experiences that can be interpreted as exalted or enlightening but since our mind have not yet completed the process of natural abandonment of its ingrained habits of clinging to obstacles it will soon return back into these habits after such an episode. We cannot cut corners and trick the mind into something it is not yet ready to accept. Enlightenment and ultimate freedom is the state left when all causes and conditions of unenlighted bondage is dissolved in to the nothingness it always was.
One thing that worries me about humans in general is our attraction to un-stoic things. Using the traffic analogy where you can either choose the congested road to work every day or the open road. My worry is that, if you know you will see lots of road rage, wreaks, fatalities... on the way, many will choose that path over the nice scenery, calm road. Just look at some of the most popular shows on TV, usually it is the crime drama or the gory, violent shows. On YT, it's the road rage videos, the violent videos, the videos where people are put in embarrassing situations or, really popular these days, the "own anyone that I disagree with" videos that rake in the clicks and views. It can make you wonder if our species is doomed to extinction by our own hand.
In my opinion, the human being possesses two facets or masks, so to speak. One represents order, symmetry, and peace, while the other embodies pure chaos, nonsense, danger, and boundless joy. Nietzsche provided a more nuanced explanation of these divergences in our existence. According to him, our social nature tends to prioritize order and reason over chaos and joy. In my understanding, his advice encourages us to embrace and integrate both aspects into our lives.
@@anthonymaradiaga8129 I understand the duality of our nature, one being the rational side, the other being the looser, "do what makes you feel good" side. My concern about us is that the rational, critical thinker side takes work and effort but, in the end, is the right/best side to nurture to have the best existence we can. While the chaos, cut loose side of us takes little effort for the most immediate reward but, in the end, is the wrong/worse side to nurture if we want to have a long meaningful existence. I guess the best way to think of it is humans are like children who will grab at the first shiny toy that catches their eye with little regard for the long-term consequences. Again, this is just me spit-ball'n here. I'm just an average Joe, not any type of expert or educated philosopher. So, take what I say with a grain of salt... no, make that a spoon full of salt with a shot of bourbon to chase it down.... lol.
It’s all about money, violence, blood, chaos, drama, exuberance, all that is what sells. Even the nightly news market the program around all that, it not a tornado, it’s monster tornado, it’s not a hurricane, it’s a killer hurricane, it’s not a fire, it’s a wild fire (as if fires are rarely wild), the list goes on & on... drama sells 💰
@@p.c.h.6721 Yep, that's exactly right. I'm old enough to remember when news was once a night for usually 30 minutes and gave you the top stories in a relatively non-bias way. What has happened, and I believe this is the crux of the problem with our country today, is it has been turned into entertainment for profit. Today it's who has the most sensational story, who can make it appear (and I emphasize the word appear) that it affects you directly or will end society as we know it if you don't react angrily. Oh, and be sure to tune in for more tomorrow for an hour long show to find out how to do something about it from our "expert" or panel of experts, who have absolutely no experience at all in the subject. Today we have 24 hour news channels, which I cannot in all honesty call "news" anymore. Its sensationalized opinion geared to pull the strongest reaction out of you in order to get you to click, view, comment, like, share... so more people will click, view.... Ok, rant over....ommmmm, ommmmm think stoic thoughts... lol..
I love Sam’s work! Wish you would have asked him about free will though. A lot of stoic quotes and such feel incompatible with free will being an illusion. I don’t know how to square the illusion of self with a lot of things about “having control” over things when i feel i ultimately have no control over anything because “I” don’t exist
Not apprehending the full meaning of “emptiness” and what is “Not Self” is a dangerous game that leads to bewilderment…it is as if grabbing a poisonous snake by it’s end - only for it to turn it’s head around and bite you.
I can't help but think Ryan has a bias towards psychedelics as a result of thinking of it as just another drug that ruins lives and is just a gateway to nowhere. I mean, reading Meditations is not the "work" of applying its philosophy to everyday life, it gives us the knowledge to learn how to apply it or how it applies to our lives. It's the same for psychedelic's, it's just another book or tool used to learn how to do the work.
My thought is it’s a bias towards good things on the other side struggle- which is great and true, the subtle trap is getting stuck in endless toil, where struggle unconsciously becomes the means and the end- don’t think Ryan has that issue tho, just broadly speaking for people who are on the self development path
as someone who has taken psychedelics, like youve said about it being another book or tool I dont think its necessary to open/use it as Ryan has probably found that the books/tools he's used is enough for him
@@ibrahimhussainali9240 Yes, good point. I'm sure some are able to achieve the same result with other tools and Ryan may be one of those. But I still wonder if he means that using psychedelics isn't really work like doing the work of reading, studying... 🤷♂ Now, this is all just me thinking out loud and may have nothing to do with what he really thinks.
Dude is just another normie pretending to have wisdom. He’s obviously imprisoned by an overly conservative rational mind that he’s convinced is the best path to meaning. There’s a reason everything he says is met with a deliberately tolerant dismissal by Harris.
I've read or listened to several books that have knowledge on how to live a better life. None of it really stuck til I stumbled on stoicism. I don't know why, it just seem to pull it all together in a way that has given me results. Its been two weeks now and my mental state has already improved. Also, I haven't thought about journalling being a form of meditation, but now that I've heard you say it, it's true. I started journally when I picked up stoicism. I don't think about or plan what I'm going to write. It's more like channeling the chaotic thoughts through my pen onto the paper. It solidifies my understanding of the topic, and after my mind is quieted. I think that is why stoicism stuck, I felt the serenity of a quiet mind in the first time that I can remember.
Sam Harris is always brilliant and well spoken. I learn something new every time I hear him speak. Thank you for this conversation!
Same here ❤
“Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional!”
And the self is an illusion
The idea of self as an illusion is also a concept, which in itself is another illusion stacked on top of a very convincing illusion
@@33rdStreet yes so even the argument for it it’s like looking for your conscious in a 2 way mirror
@@33rdStreet however consciousness whatever it is if you are Normal or a schizophrenic whatever appears even if we are in a simulation consciousness can’t be an illusion
Sam harris has always calmed me. Even if im not listening to what he says. Soul truth in him.
Waking Up is my favourite Meditation App
I think there was a vital opportunity that was missed with this podcast! I love both Ryan and Sam, and would've loved for them to talk more about the paradigm differences of Stoicism and Buddhism / meditation. For example, how these two practices differ in dealing with thoughts and emotions. The practice Sam talks about seems to go about it in a very deep way, uprooting our basic understanding of our own reality, whereas Stoicism seems to rely of a more traditional western understanding of a self (people like Marcus Aurelius even use the word and concept of a soul when speaking to himself ) that is using rationality to divert negative thoughts and emotions into more helpful states.
Really a shame that a talk on these deeper differences and overlaps between the two philosophies were missed!
Exactly! Please share if you come across any TH-cam video that does get into that.
I felt there was no chemistry between them and Blah interview….
Young man is distracted....looks like he's beginning the game
Sam is talking about Mindfulness Meditation and Ryan is talking about "small-m" meditation - two different things. Sam brings up hallucinogenic substances and Ryan tries to connect that to Stoicism. Again, Ryan tries to speak intelligently about something he knows nothing about. In these cases, he would have been far better off just listening. Or simply said he's never tried them, or he's not interested in trying them. Finally, Ryan missed the opportunity to pivot, and discuss Sam's ideas of the self, as Sam suggested. Ryan sounded like he was just winging it. So yes, this was hard to listen to.
Outside of my immediate family, there are not 2 people on this planet that I would rather listen to than these 2. Love you guys 👏👏
Haha … that’s a pretty serious compliment … but of course, Sam is so thoughtful and could explain quantum physics to a mosquito. Can you imagine being married to him? 😂😂 “darling would you pass the salt without remembering your father’s excessive consumption of it?” Or to his dog, “I can’t take you outside now, it’s raining. Think about the door knob only …” I would love to live in his home for a month in one day … He is a treasure. After listening to him for several months, I now believe that mindfulness should replace religion and “Father Sam” should replace “Sam” 😂❤
@@nicholaskostopulos8631your 20?
Sam Thank you for your meditation practice and your teachings of mindfulness. It really helped me when I needed it the most. You. Have helped people , like myself . 😊
Sam Harris is an iconic person in my life. His thinking power is a good example for establishing humanity.
I've always felt we really need to flesh out and incorporate a general philosophy as a society. We need to get our values settled, abandon consumerism and go after wisdom and Truth on scale. Then war will be completely unthinkable, people will really be at their best. And no, problems won't disappear. But why can't society at large be taught the value of Truth? Start teaching kids young, it'll transform the world almost instantly.
These two are just awesome for the world arnt they. All the wisdom with seemingly little ego or theatrics. Theyve changed my life
I love both Sam and Ryan. Stoicism and nonduality/consciousness are my jam.
Same brother
There is no "you/your"
@@JD..........you’ve been confused by spiritual jargon. There definitely is a you, it’s just not the idea you have of yourself in your own head. It’s the presence and aliveness right now.
i think though they rarely cite it, I think they are clearly in the Charles Tart / George Gurdjieff vein of thought about the human experience to the world. I love it.
I love mindfulness, meditation, and yoga. Theyve helped so much to overcome many addictions and physical impairments. I love being outside in nature, God's wonderful creation while i practice. I ask the Holy Spirit to direct my movements and stretch my body and take my pain away.
Thanks Sam!
Ryan Holiday has built his career on memorising quotes
Yes but he lives them does he not?
@@phiamanNot always. He slips, as do we all.
About a year ago, someone came into his shop concerned about co. Vid and he called her well crafted, actually polite letter out on social media. In addition to this, Ryan himself titled it, "She didn't leave her name, but I'm betting it was Karen."
He has since removed said post after a wave of backlashh.
Jordan,Peterson too.
Chris Williamson came to my mind
@@Amanita._.Verosa._. "We make mistakes. It happens. The idea that it shouldn’t affect a Stoic? Preposterous. No amount of training, Seneca writes, takes away natural feelings. So it’s OK that you don’t like what happened. What matters is what happens next." -- Ryan Holliday
So, what happened next? We probably don't know, but perhaps he improved.
Ryan, your content is great - but - most of what you put out I have to crank to max volume just to hear somewhat normally. Pump it up, man!
1:02:10
Hi Ryan, thanks for talking with Sam Harris, im a long time fan of his and have been practicing stoicism roughly 3 years, reading the classics, W.B. Irvine and yourself. I enjoyed this conversation and came away with this thought:
Sam is quite intellectual in his approach and is where he spends most of his time, whereas you seem to want to inhabit both the intellectual and the practical simultaniously.
Thank you
Im a subscriber to the waking up app too (4 years) and have benefitted from both Sam and stoicism. Just an observation
Thanks for having Sam on with you, and thank you Sam for joining in. What a great segment.
I personally have been drawn into the morass that is eastern philosophy and stoicism and have navigated these waters with great caution and have found it to be very rewarding.
Both are horse shit, come to Islam
What a cool sign off from Sam at the end! Great content man!
I don't think I've ever seen anyone deal with time delay better than these two giants of wisdom
sam is def a giant of wisdom.. Ryan just repeats things that were written by others.
They both know "two ears, one mouth."
Ryan Holiday is much more than that (repeating what others say)…he is very highly prepared and curious about how to get into the bones of what it takes to build an inner citadel that is required to function in the world…especially towards and about those of us who are just on the surface of our understanding.
Sam is a philosopher, Ryan is a chat bot.
Children in the basement
Yes to all of us who are quite moved and inspired by Sam Harris and Ryan Holiday….Two mavericks sowing the seeds of the future renaissance that is waiting in the wings for human beings to begin (again) to cultivate the river of energy that moves us towards the flourishing, robust dynamic necessary to live in the excellent pursuit of being the best that we can.
Alhamdullilah, How fortunate I am to have discovered these two formidable forces for good in the 🌎 ❤️🔥🔥world
With psychedelics I think it’s the Noetic quality of the revelations gained during the experience that give them greater value than simply reading it from a self help book which is often left un-integrated into the self.
Wisdom and lessons from psychedelics is often left unintegrated as well.
Could have listened to this for ten hours
@@NousTrapperam is speaking slow for some people even on 1x. It would be a nightmare to put him on 0.25x.
UPD. Just tried 0.25x - that’s hilarious
The Sam Harris effect
Buddhism and Stoicism, the best of the West meets the best of the East. My life is dedicated to this. I get all my strength from there. God may exist, perhaps not. It's not that important to me. To live meaningfully, with dignity, creatively, to be at peace with oneself and try to be an upright and chivalrous man with strong integrity and equanimity is my everything.
well stated and reasoned. I share your road. Some days are better than others, but the road is always there.
Well said man. Screenshot taken of ur msg. ,👍
I can’t agree more!
LFG GO STOIC BUDDHIST GANG
This is probably the most insightful discussion I've heard from Sam on meditation. Good job.
If I hadn’t done acid in my 20s there’s no way I would’ve been the person I am today. I understand that it’s not for everybody but holy sh$t did my mind expand and made me a better me.
Yes, I had the exact same experience with crack.
True, I had the same experience with crystal meth.
Same. I don’t doubt meth and crack also have the ability to impact your life, but I’d like to believe psychedelics have the ability to transform your sense of self and perception of others in a non-harmful way when compared to the side effects that meth and crack may induce lol
@@AmazingOwnage"chemicals are inherently bad and every one of them interfaces with the brain exactly the same."
The clowns above you definitely drink every single night 😂
@@Mageblood their loss 🤷♂️
Oh my god this is like the best crossover episode ever. Love Sam and Ryan
On psychedelics, Sam's response resonated with me. I've tried medium doses a few times in life and have zero regrets. I agree with Sam that the experience of the high itself is illuminating in ways that other modes of exploration or experience may not reach, and it's a difference in experience that I would not be able to articulate, aside from labeling it a kind of bliss, contentment, or "heart"-filled presence. Ryan saying that people who've used them that he's spoken to haven't ever really said anything about life in general that's any more enlightening or true than what you get from books or sober introspection is understandable. Relying on what people say about their experience with psychedelics as a metric for their value I think will always fall short of what they can actually do. However, I'll take people's word for it to never try heroin, cocaine, etc.
I agree with Ryan that "the work" seems to be more than taking a dose of something. But there's overlap. The work of reading and meditating and other sober forms of exploration are maybe more disciplined and intentional than the effects of a high; but I think that a disregard of the high itself as valuable enlightenment-wise lacks appreciation of the conscious, reasonable decisions about why to get high to begin with, the conscientiousness and mindfulness (however altered) of the user throughout the high, and the utility of the courage or intentionality of the user to "let go" for the duration of the high to see what happens in order to let the trip act as an aid to insight into our lived, day-to-day experience; it's similar to the way people try to apply the insights gained from books. A book can take hours to read, and a trip can last for hours; both are kind of immobilizing in the moment and are meant as a means of reaching a higher state of understanding or experience. I know people who have read widely and got titles and degrees who are full of shit, just like there are users of drugs who lose sight of the reason they're using or care for the way they handle coming down; depends on your limits and reasons.
Although the "peak" experience of a high is not consistent with the day-to-day needs of life, it does give some perspective as to what the day-to-day problems people face are really made of, and it can help to resolve the deeply felt and sometimes destructive emotions that are grounded in the illusion of self and ego, which for me were illusions that psychedelics helped free me from during the high. Part of the peak effects make me just want to get high again. But another part makes me aware in ways that I wasn't before of what value my life actually has and in contrast, what importance the petty day-to-day problems I tend to create are really worth.
How to be Stiller
The perfect comment doesn't exi....
Bro 😂
From American Pie?
Edit: apology I thought you wrote Stifler
@@maselmBen Harris and Sam Stiller go way back.
This podcast came at the perfect time. Thank you!
"The ability to observe without evaluating, is the highest form of human intelligence." J Krishnamutri. 🙏
I'm in love with Sam's vocabulary. Every time I listen to him I gain 2 or 3 new words. Sam is proof that while everybody can talk, only very few can speak (or are speakers)... if you know what mean.
Is that why I have trouble understanding him.. I don’t think using too many big word in one complex sentence is ideal to get your message across.
Listen to Trump and you'll know what I mean.@@piolin23iq
I’m not sure that current video preview picture is the best choice. I believe there could be enough still frames in the video to choose from
Two of my all time favorites on one screen. More of this in the future please!
This was such a beautiful and meaning conversation
I just subscribed. I’m looking so forward in continuing my knowledge & growth. I just barely graduated from high school. Just been working most of my life & always struggled in handling my day to day. I feel like I’m on a journey to living a potentially more vibrant life full of awareness & my realizing my worth to the world & myself.
Best wishes, life has so much to offer when we put effort on seeing and understanding what's in front of us and whats inside of us.
An absolutely game changing take away for me on how to apply stoicism in my day-to-day life.... learn to use those moments when you feel anger, frustration, anxiety, fear... as triggers to kick off your inner stoic, so to speak, so you can apply the right reaction(s), or non-reaction, to the moment. Just like when you feel heat from a flame your built-in automatic reaction is to pull away from it. Learn to recognize those moments until it becomes almost innate in you to marshal the tools needed to handle them in the best way.
It is true that Sam really has to measure up to the last thing he's said, with his viewers/listeners. I appreciate that, I don't agree with him on every position. But I've found that listening to him allows me the benefit of thinking deeply rather than having a knee jerk reaction to things, and forcing myself to have an opinion to stand behind before I've really taken the time to appreciate how I feel. Great interview!
I love your content. I’ve followed Sam for a long time and I am a subscriber of the waking up app. I may be wrong. But, I felt like you may have a blind spot on psycodelics and meditation. You came across to me at least, as a little dismissive of them. I think that there might be more there for you, that has yet to be discovered. Something that will not be found in a book. I love your content. I love your books. Hope that doesn’t come across as criticism. Just suggesting that there might be useful revelations hiding in those areas.
aw yeah this is a good combo! Holiday and Harris! excited to listen.
This is a terrible combo, Harris just illustrated that stoicism has little to nothing to offer.
I listened . I would not characterize Harris's words that way 🤷♀️
Thank you very much for this really really really amazing discussion, the last 3 months have been the hardest of my life, my nervous system became insanely sensitive causing reoccurring panic attacks and disturbing obsessive thoughts, I'm taking my life back step by step with stoic principles and mindfulness practices. Thanks very much ☘️
You are not alone, brother im on the same journey as you!
@@careforalla it's not easy bro but it does get better, I downloaded the dare app, along with incorporating stoic philosophy I'm making great progress, I've had anxiety and OCD my whole life but this hit me like a truck, Im very mindful that thoughts are not mine and I let them pass by without judgement, ruminating was my worst habit learning thinking is an active choice and my responsibility was very helpful I now no longer ruminate, acceptance is the key word in recovery accepting thoughts and feelings without judgement or attachment and continue living life, eventually all the symptoms will fade away. I really really wish you strength courage and confidence in your journey, honestly this will make us better people in the long run☘️
Sam - people from the East need to listen to you more. Please market yourself in countries like Pakistan, India, Afghanistan more. Your ideas are priceless and could certainly be a helpful contribution for the transformation of our societies
That ending was so wholesome. Feels like the interview was ending and he just willfully came back to add some additional words of love. Great convo you two ❤
I read your comment before I'd reached the end so I made sure to finish... glad I did.
I have been procrastinating on practicing concentration and mindfulness. I should rectify that ASAP.
did you?
This conversation reminded me how Alan Wallace suggests the difference between meditating for hedonistic benefits (alleviate suffering/stress/pain relief/dukkha), and meditating in the attempt to grasp the deeper nature of reality (Buddhadharma/liberation/ego or self-dissolution ).
Although Siddhis seem to go further and say that there are forms of meditating that allow you to perform extra-ordinary abilities, like alchemy, clairvoyance, astral projection and summoning aliens! If that's the case, would love to know the specific differences between Kundalini / Tantra (the more esoteric practices of Hinduism/Buddhism), Yoga (Isha-Upa/Kriya, Shambhavi Mahamudra , Aurobindo/Lord Hanuman), and the occult (Aghori / Freemasons (Inspector General)/Black-Magick/hermetic-order). I assume they differ in the yantra (tool) , tantra (technique) and mantras (utterance).
22:11 the work is the journey and friends we make along the way
Marcus Aurelius: "Objective judgment, now at this very moment. Unselfish action, now at this very moment. Willing acceptance-now at this very moment-of all external events. That’s all you need."
Been waiting for these guys to get together since long.
Sam is so right in describing thoughts as half lifes they come and go like cloud's in the sky if left alone only when you become involved with your thoughts they become full life's and take on some illusory meaning.
As humans we have thoughts thats part of the human condition.
Ask yourself are you conscious or concerned about blood circulating your body? Or you're digestive system working? Or your heart beating 💓? Id guess probably not. So why are we so concerned with our thoughts when they crop up in our conscious? Its because we misidentify them as ourselves we give them meaning, and we become unconscious,
we become our thoughts. Watch your thoughts, allow them to come watch them, and allow them to pass. It's not personal it's human conscious your no different from anyone else we humans have thoughts. it's what we humans do just dont identify with them.. You only need to observe.
The root of our suffering is our identification with our own thoughts.
Thank you your book of Daily reading we are using it in Secular AA and it is helping many get and stay sober
Peak experieance essentially is a memory. It's not permanent. Wonderful insight.❤
Ryan, mate, get your mits on some mdma at your soonest opportunity, there is no downside that Stoicism' won't get you through and the opening of your heart be revelationary, its like Sam painted it, you really get a positive shift in perspective that is life enhancing. I have huge amounts of respect for both you guys and never imagined to be qualified to advise either of you ever, however, humbly, in this instance..... I'm not convinced mdma is indeed a pyschadelic but it will open your heart, and to be in the awareness of that has nothing but positive repercussions.
Obviously the work is applying the insights but the insights also include having a wide range and variety of experiences to TEACH you and to learn these many aspects of the mind. Consciousness isn’t limited to your waking everyday life and although we return back to it after a psychedelic experience there is zero evidence this world is the real one and that one is not. Just say that you are afraid to try it and have the experience and I would respect that more then playing of what you trying to say is “reality” and what is not. That’s easy to say when you’ve never dared to have the experience yourself enough to judge for yourself. That’s a cop out excuse and an undertone of judgement towards others who have actually yes, done the work, which it is ALL relevant and part of doing.
I agree that you can make the same break throughs you would on pschadelics without them. When I took acid I had the first hand experience that everything is a vibration, that everything is connected, and it wasnt anything in particularly new for me because I had already somewhat gotten that from my meditation and other practices, but I can see how psychedelics can jump start the journey for alot of people who aren’t listening to the self with some sort of meditative practice or trying to garner wise insight about life.
There’s very strong empirical evidence that psychedelics can change people’s life and mind (ie depression, anxiety, addiction, and hospice studies) but it’s one of those things that you really must experience yourself to understand how powerful they are. It’s a sort of manual override that causes a kind of ego death that teaches you lessons you can take in to your normal life…. if you do it right which is a very big if.
IF by Rudyard Kipling
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream-and not make dreams your master;
If you can think-and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And-which is more-you’ll be a Man, my son!
Neither mind altering drugs, nor meditation have resonated with me. What has begun to work for me is continuing study of both western and eastern philosophies, and daily, hourly mindfulness. It is, for me, just like physical fitness, continuous attention and effort.
I would recommend getting a real meditation teacher, there are deep insights to be had but they are not easily glimpsed without proper guidance
If meditation has not worked for you then what is your mindfulness practice if you do not include sitting? The waking and middle (meditation) state play off of one another. I suggest exploring different traditions - both spiritual and secular. Have fun!
A book that helped me was “The Meditative Mind: Varieties of Meditative Experience” by Daniel Goleman.
That is meditation
Mindfulness is a form of meditation. A lot of meditation is just mindfulness while sitting but there’s no rule that says you must sit while doing it, it’s just a tool
Please, check the Audio volume on this, cause my Phone and headphones are at maximum and with little outside noise it gets tricky to understand clearly (New listener, so maybe it is a one-time thing)
Much appreciated ❤
Thanks Ryan - a very interesting conversation.
Wen round 2? I would love a series of about 200 of these, but I'll settle for round 2.
A fantastic interview between Obi Wan Kenobi (Sam Harris) and Luke Skywalker (Ryan Holiday) 😊
What's with Ryan volume. Fascinating conversation.
12:51-13:01 Sam Harris makes his point. Anything else after is just a conversation. Interesting conversation, but conversation nonetheless.
I'm a advocate for psychedelic therapy.
Psychedelics can help someone see reality in a way they haven't been able to. For example let's say you were bitten by a dog at a young age and your family never had one. You would probably have a fear towards dogs and be hesitant if you came across one in the streets. Compared that to someone who always had a family dog, they would look at dogs in a way different light. This is just one example/ experience that can make us see reality completely different. Psychedelics could make take that extra step back and see it all for what it is.
I will see it's not for everyone, some people are already to mentally unstable that it could do more damage than good. But it should be a option doctors can offer under controlled sessions
yesssss, i really like your ideas and the way you communicate them ryan, what you are doing and how you are navigating through the concept of stoicism is unparalleled, and i also love sam harris for his rationality and his continuous strive for the improvement of our conscious experience, with that being said, i cant wait to watch this episode, well done for talking to him
This was a fantastic talk. I really appreciate you sharing it
I have been interested in this stoic stuff for a few years just ordered a few books
How is it going on your journey ? Any amazing stoic books you picked up ? :)
@@noname3609 Epictetus
love this conversation!
Clear and insightful!
The problem with worry “either you can do something or you can’t”, is when you KNOW you can do something or that there is a solution. But you don’t know what it is.
Exactly
Sure, but worry doesn’t help you figure out the solution. You can recognize that the worry alerted you to the problem, but after that it serves no function if you actually want a solution
Thank you. 😊
A common error I see people make is the belief the Sankara's Advaita Vedanta is the essence and summation of Hindu philosophy. In fact there are five other robust theistic forms of Vedanta that subsume the concept of nonduality of consciousness within them and yet retain the individuality of the atma in relation to its maker, Bhagavan.
Hey Ryan - love your work and that of Sam Harris. fyi - you have a spell error (recognize ) on the Sam overlay in the intro
I just want to hop in here and say that the “work “ when it comes to psychedelics is usually what comes after the peak experience. Hence, putting the insights to work. That’s the hardest bit. At least that’s how I’ve experienced the word used in that context.
From the conversation it seems that Ryan either doesn't have yet a reference experience for mindful meditation or is talking about something else. It's a shift of perspective, it's not something you do, it's something you are, so to speak.
I can’t wait until I’m more mindful in the moment rather than after.
All of them are mental practices once they are fully distilled and mentally interacted with. Stoicism is very straight up and very close to plain language, closer to modern psychology in sound, effect and purpose. Buddhism is the same teaching but nested in cryptic verbiage for the student to work through and wire their brain. But sometimes we get what Buddha teaches in plain language too. Buddha's first line in the Dhammapada. "All that we are is the result of what we have thought. It is founded on our thoughts, it is based in our thoughts." The Buddha. Stoicism 101
The audio volume and quality are so low =/
I've been practising meditation (poorly) for a few years now.... Was justified in feeling anger a few days ago and felt great that I'd managed to process that emotion in about 15 minutes... To do it in 10 seconds, Sam, you're the Buddah incarnate! 😂... Still, I'm grateful the news i recieved didn't floor me for too long! ❤
35:35 - Its not things that upset us, its our opinion about things
Perfectly put
thank you and please add english subtitle
Love this- attack the "force majeure" with the things that you can control with 110% effort- don't worry about the naysayers, and doubters. Love the dialectic of the occidental versus non-occidental philosophy. The ideal is to have both working for you in harmony. I am a firm believer in the Waabi Saabi philosophy=]
May I know the timestamp for this?
I love Sam. He has a good balance of intelligent language and simplicity.
until he bangs on about vaccines..
and his Trump derangement syndrome
Interesting discussion! Psychedelics seem to facilitate a gestalt of wisdom collected piecemeal. Like connecting the dots. Experientially, they’re akin to feeling your toes in the sand while watching the sun set over the ocean, as opposed to looking at a picture of a sunset or reading a paragraph about it. On the whole, it seems more visceral than intellectual.
These two gentlemen are on completely different planes of enlightenment, and sort of talking past each other, which is ok, but stark.
Great discussion thanks
Loved this
Audio quiet for anyone else?
The worst type of worry is money troubles. You need money NOW but all you can do is wait for that next paycheck. Constantly wondering if you are going to make to next week.
Of course someone could try and get a higher paying career but that won’t solve my money troubles NOW
For example I’m trying to become a backend web app developer and studying everyday is tough while my money trouble worries are constantly playing in the background of my head
Can't wait for part 2 - "How to be Stiller".
lol I see what you did there
Lolololol
Only multiple experiences can give that stillness
I question whether meditation works for a large number of people.
A friend at work asked me how I was doing and told her, “Not very well”. Sheila asked me if I’d rather be happy? “Of course”,I said. “Just be happy” she said. And that changed my life.
That is what Aristotle said. He said, ""if you want to be happy, then be.""
His comment at 53:12 about the psychopaths in his living room had me cracking up. 😂 Truly! It certainly can feel like that so often. 😅😂
I feel Ryan doesn’t understand that “the work” is much less “work” with psychedelics. These insights can spontaneously come to be in your own mind, Marcus Aurelius doesn’t have to tell you how always.
Yes, there seems to be a tendency towards “no pain, -no gain” -type of mentality there. That is the aspect I have against the stoics in general. In truth we always have the possibility to access the sublime freedom, in every moment throughout. Sure, it may seem to us as “the work” when we in the beginning are trying to get into the habit of catching the present moment of awareness. In a way we are trying to re-programming our ways of meeting reality and that takes some conscious effort for sure. But the real point with meditation is actually what’s happening in our minds between the sessions of meditation. Is our meditation having an effect on us such that we are becoming more aware and mindful effortlessly in our daily activities, or is our experience during meditation not having any impact on us of a more ‘contagious’ nature that is not spilling over into our daily routines at all? I think Sam said it very well when he said that the purpose of meditation is to get familiar with our basic ground of inherent wisdom rather than being an exercise in fabricated states or contrived experiences.
Just like enlightenment and the ultimate freedom itself meditation is not about creating or producing anything. It is what’s left when the mind is settled in a completely free state of uncontrived awareness. Freedom arise when the mind remains naturally unperturbed regardless of what arises. At that point the duality of pure and impure stops being relevant criteria for the mind. Whatever arises is instantaneously liberated into the vast expanse of awareness and no further elaborations or proliferations occur. This is the Freedom that is referred to within the Buddhist traditions.
As we progress in our meditation practice we start to get glimpses of these unfabricated moments of just being aware. Then we start to understand the timeless nature of our own ground nature and the strong tendency towards the mechanistic dichotomy of efforts and results starts to loosen its grip over us. We then realize that our true nature is always accessible and need no improvement or embellishments. The practice is to let go of all the constructs that block us from having a constant relationship with our basic nature.
The term “letting go” is such a potent and vital term in Buddhist practice. In reality it refers to literally dropping or abandoning all obstacles such as opinions, viewpoints, misguided intentions, etc. The ideal is to have a natural mindfulness that ensures that wisdom arise within each moment of experience effortlessly and thus each moment is naturally a moment of freedom. This is something that’s very hard for most people to understand. But enlightenment can never be a chore or a task. That wouldn’t be an authentic enlightened state or experience at all.
The reason why chemically induced exalted experiences do not remain permanently is because these experiences are reliant on causes and conditions to arise. They may give glimpses into modes of experiences that can be interpreted as exalted or enlightening but since our mind have not yet completed the process of natural abandonment of its ingrained habits of clinging to obstacles it will soon return back into these habits after such an episode. We cannot cut corners and trick the mind into something it is not yet ready to accept. Enlightenment and ultimate freedom is the state left when all causes and conditions of unenlighted bondage is dissolved in to the nothingness it always was.
Dude has zero wisdom. Just another TH-cam guru with more ego than insight.
@@Bazravish69I agree
Has anyone had experience with both the non-dualistic approach to meditation Sam advocates and the dualistic approach advocated by others?
One thing that worries me about humans in general is our attraction to un-stoic things. Using the traffic analogy where you can either choose the congested road to work every day or the open road. My worry is that, if you know you will see lots of road rage, wreaks, fatalities... on the way, many will choose that path over the nice scenery, calm road. Just look at some of the most popular shows on TV, usually it is the crime drama or the gory, violent shows. On YT, it's the road rage videos, the violent videos, the videos where people are put in embarrassing situations or, really popular these days, the "own anyone that I disagree with" videos that rake in the clicks and views. It can make you wonder if our species is doomed to extinction by our own hand.
In my opinion, the human being possesses two facets or masks, so to speak. One represents order, symmetry, and peace, while the other embodies pure chaos, nonsense, danger, and boundless joy. Nietzsche provided a more nuanced explanation of these divergences in our existence. According to him, our social nature tends to prioritize order and reason over chaos and joy. In my understanding, his advice encourages us to embrace and integrate both aspects into our lives.
Of course we don’t have to glorify the violence but we can’t get apart our instinct. I don’t know if I explain well.
@@anthonymaradiaga8129 I understand the duality of our nature, one being the rational side, the other being the looser, "do what makes you feel good" side. My concern about us is that the rational, critical thinker side takes work and effort but, in the end, is the right/best side to nurture to have the best existence we can. While the chaos, cut loose side of us takes little effort for the most immediate reward but, in the end, is the wrong/worse side to nurture if we want to have a long meaningful existence.
I guess the best way to think of it is humans are like children who will grab at the first shiny toy that catches their eye with little regard for the long-term consequences.
Again, this is just me spit-ball'n here. I'm just an average Joe, not any type of expert or educated philosopher. So, take what I say with a grain of salt... no, make that a spoon full of salt with a shot of bourbon to chase it down.... lol.
It’s all about money, violence, blood, chaos, drama, exuberance, all that is what sells. Even the nightly news market the program around all that, it not a tornado, it’s monster tornado, it’s not a hurricane, it’s a killer hurricane, it’s not a fire, it’s a wild fire (as if fires are rarely wild), the list goes on & on... drama sells 💰
@@p.c.h.6721 Yep, that's exactly right. I'm old enough to remember when news was once a night for usually 30 minutes and gave you the top stories in a relatively non-bias way. What has happened, and I believe this is the crux of the problem with our country today, is it has been turned into entertainment for profit. Today it's who has the most sensational story, who can make it appear (and I emphasize the word appear) that it affects you directly or will end society as we know it if you don't react angrily. Oh, and be sure to tune in for more tomorrow for an hour long show to find out how to do something about it from our "expert" or panel of experts, who have absolutely no experience at all in the subject. Today we have 24 hour news channels, which I cannot in all honesty call "news" anymore. Its sensationalized opinion geared to pull the strongest reaction out of you in order to get you to click, view, comment, like, share... so more people will click, view.... Ok, rant over....ommmmm, ommmmm think stoic thoughts... lol..
Brilliant conversation
Yeah I understood the beat...jeezus tangent
I love Sam’s work! Wish you would have asked him about free will though. A lot of stoic quotes and such feel incompatible with free will being an illusion. I don’t know how to square the illusion of self with a lot of things about “having control” over things when i feel i ultimately have no control over anything because “I” don’t exist
Not apprehending the full meaning of “emptiness” and what is “Not Self” is a dangerous game that leads to bewilderment…it is as if grabbing a poisonous snake by it’s end - only for it to turn it’s head around and bite you.
"journaling" (?) - a western equivalent of meditation? I don't know this notion, anybody help me?
I can't help but think Ryan has a bias towards psychedelics as a result of thinking of it as just another drug that ruins lives and is just a gateway to nowhere. I mean, reading Meditations is not the "work" of applying its philosophy to everyday life, it gives us the knowledge to learn how to apply it or how it applies to our lives. It's the same for psychedelic's, it's just another book or tool used to learn how to do the work.
My thought is it’s a bias towards good things on the other side struggle- which is great and true, the subtle trap is getting stuck in endless toil, where struggle unconsciously becomes the means and the end- don’t think Ryan has that issue tho, just broadly speaking for people who are on the self development path
as someone who has taken psychedelics, like youve said about it being another book or tool I dont think its necessary to open/use it as Ryan has probably found that the books/tools he's used is enough for him
@@ibrahimhussainali9240 Yes, good point. I'm sure some are able to achieve the same result with other tools and Ryan may be one of those. But I still wonder if he means that using psychedelics isn't really work like doing the work of reading, studying... 🤷♂ Now, this is all just me thinking out loud and may have nothing to do with what he really thinks.
Dude is just another normie pretending to have wisdom. He’s obviously imprisoned by an overly conservative rational mind that he’s convinced is the best path to meaning. There’s a reason everything he says is met with a deliberately tolerant dismissal by Harris.