I couldn't agree more . At 5'6" foot placement is everything . Slow riding practise is essential in my opinion. Ive not dropped a bike in over 30 years but have come close !!! It's always a spot of gravel under my not flat foot that gives me a fright ! Great solid , real world video . Thanks .
I know you have covered this before and it is something infrequently discussed and explained, in terms of road camber and quality of road surface at junctions. Looking ahead at road surface, camber and positioning for the hazard, slowing for a turning left and right at a junction, and potentially having to stop and put a foot down where progress is not possible. The small things can often be overlooked at times but is definitely very important knowledge for new and less experienced riders. It all makes sense when you have a 1 mile an hour spill at a junction because of putting the wrong foot down because of lack of early vision. Another great video.
Using the right footwear seems obvious but is such an important factor in establishing a firm grip on the road surface when putting a foot down. The soft, spongy roll of a sneaker or sports shoe is enough to compromise balance on cambered surface.
So true, I will put my right foot down if I think it's more stable to do so. Road surface drops slightly to the left on a right hand turn then definitely going to be right foot down. I learnt this the hard way when I got my first big bike. Great content again thankyou ❤
There are two types of camber. One is where its a straight line drop from the centre to the verge with a constant graduation and the other is where there is a crown to the centre of the road and the camber is then graduated downwards with the most fall in it being closer to the nearest, to the kerb or verge. Beware of the second one as the degree of fall is greatest/steepest nearest the drain or kerbside.
About the second or third time I went out after getting my CB500F I took a wrong turn in Broadstairs, heading downhill to the sea. There was a turning to the left so I took it to perform a u-turn but the gradient was all wrong and over went the bike. I got it up, all was fine, but it was facing the wrong way and although I get it on the stand, trying to get back on it went over again. This time it snapped off most of the brake lever. Someone saw and helped me get the bike the right way up and facing the right way, and I rode very carefully to Tesco. I bought some small electronics screwdrivers to use as splints for the snapped off part and a roll of gaffer tape to hold it together to fashion a working brake lever and was able to safely ride home back to London. I was in equal parts annoyed at my stupidity and impressed by my ingenuity!
My old fella once dropped the clutch on a 250cc scooter at traffic lights and it flipped him off it in front of a load of 'real' bikers who thought it was quite amusing!😂
It's not a drop if nobody sees it. I find it's best to do them in grocery shop car parks on a typical payday, just after school gets out. Arriving at or leaving a pub or a cafe on a lovely summer's day when everyone from town seems to be dining Al Fresco, is another great option. It also helps if you can have a work mate there to see you, or one of your in laws that you pretty much only catch up with at birthdays and Christmas is there.
My first drop, after 900 miles on my 125, was at a T-junction which slopes upwards slightly. I stopped with the bike pointing a little to the left, this meant that the weight of the bike was now diagonally across the bike, instead of inline with the wheels, this caused me to lose balance and down she went. Fortunately not much damage to either of us. A good lesson was learned that day and I finally joined the real bikers club! I'll look out for slopes in the future and consider what effect this will have on the stability of the bike. Good video!
Those hill type junction are a bugger. We have one or two and knowing them I always stop early to try to give me some room to accelerate forwards before I turn the wheel and without coming onto a main road. That way if the turn is not on I can stop in a straight line and hopefully not on the main road. I always point my bike up towards towards such a junction and not at any angle at all and as I would under normal circumstances do. When turning right I initially ride across the road and not initiating turning too early. My road is now level and then when crossing over the mid line I then turn into my desired direction. Keep safe and ride well.
Excellent video. When doing anything, but riding a Moto especially, when someone with suitable experience says _"you must do it this way"_ will normally be good advice, but not always! Instead, as you pointed out, you should do what is most expedient at that time even if it goes against all the "rules".
Excellent tutorial , for too many years I habitually solely put my left foot down / utilised the , ‘ Hendon Shuffle ‘ . I completed my IAM training last year during which my observer , ( with incredible patience ! ) finally had me also utilising my right foot down where appropriate . Having this additional skill has proved a real asset , great follow up video & advice .
If you are vertically challenged, as I am at 5’7”, road camber determines which foot goes down. Riding mostly on the left, it’s the right foot. When I tour in places where they drive on the right, sometimes the left foot is my better option. Motorcycle license tests should not dictate which foot, rather the assessment should be based on the rider successfully stopping, starting and turning. I have found that hill starts can be accomplished without needing the foot brake, but it does take practice to juggle front brake and throttle with the right hand. This is something I have never seen taught, but should be for those occasions when the right foot is on the ground.
My BMW GSA knew all the points in your video, (never told me), and demonstrated the consequence of each . . . on several occasions and will still 'try it on' if I'm not diligent. As my wife put it - 'I love riding out on the bike, I just wish I was able to get off before we come to a stop . . . '. I am getting better . . .
When it comes to a camber in the road not a lot of riders know that there are two types of camber. Camber is the slope made in a roads surface, starting with the highest point of the camber being in the centre of the road and then it trails down hill slightly as we move towards the nearside kerb or verge. Its designed to assist water after or during rain to speedily drain nto the gutter and away. However the two types of camber are one, a straight line one when the angle or degree of descent is constant with say 2/3 degree or more of a constant fall from the centre line down to the kerbside.. The second is what I call a crown camber where for a few feet or yards, depending on the width of the carriageway the camber initially doesn't fall straight from the centre of the road and like a slight hump it then it descends more rapidly toward the kerb side at a greater angle of descent. This second one I have found occurs on bends etc and if one is too far to the left and closer to the kerb on a right hand bend then one can experience a greater drop in the camber. That can upset the riding stability of the bike and that is something we don't want whilst leant over on a bend at speed. That is one reason why we should be no less than position number 1 on any right hand bends.
Fantastic video as ever - warns me against developing bad habits now I have passed DAS. Dropped my bike once grabbing the front brake on a U-Turn while looking down - it was a horrible day! :(
Good video. If I am using the front to stop slowly I am only ever using a finger, therefore no harsh grabbing possible. Scanning where you're stopping is so important when you get up to a big bike. If the floor I choose to stop on suddenly drops an extra inch or two, there's no way I am touching the floor on a tall bike and over we go!
Good and informative video. My bike has no fancy tech or abs. I have to do things slightly differently because of my disabilities. I use both brakes together. I finding this is working for me better and I'm coming to a smoother stop and more balanced. I put left or both feet down. If you look at Jerry Palindinos (Motorman) video on braking he demonstrates that using both brakes together saves about 10 feet in stopping distance that back brake front brake. This technique has saved my bacon countless times. I can now put my left foot down regardless of terrain. I've commented on your channel before. I'm the chap from just outside Glasgow that couldn't get the cat A licence because of the manual handling exercise. You'll be pleased to know that I have finally got the medical evidence I need to take to my test from my consultant. It states my medical conditions and that she does not recommend me to do the manual handling exercise. I have also sought legal advice. My lawyer is saying that the DVSA are in violation of the equality act and should I be made to push my motorcycle round from one parking bay to another or fail my test because of this issue she will be bring legal proceedings against the DVSA. I have to take this letter to my test also. Finally after 4 years or riding. I might actually get there. I'm just letting you know in case another student with disabilities finds themselves in the same position. Hate a 125cc now. They suck. Would love to do one of your intensive courses that I saw on your website at Chorley, but somehow, I don't think my bike would fit on the train. (lol).😂
There is no doubt that when braking particularly hard or in an emergency situation the us of both brakes is important. However under normal riding situations of slowing , particularly if going to stop say at lights, a junctions or in traffic then we can let off the front brake at a slowing speed and finish coming to a full stop on the rear brake only. That stops any up and down movement of the front forks and it gives us a steadier and more progressive stop without that bouncing occurring. I have arthritis and a weak left knee joint that can give way sometimes so many a time I also put two feet down in order to facilitate a safer more balanced stop. My bike is an automatic scooter and so I can use the left handlebar brake as that activates the back brake only so no need for foot operation on pegs. I am 75 years of age and have been riding scooters for the last 10 years and it has kept me on two wheels whereas I would be struggling with a larger motorcycle.
Unless emergency braking I would think with good observation you should never need an extra 10ft of stopping distance. But as part of all the rules of riding being "always do it this way unless the situation means it is better to do something else," those situations include your own abilities and knowing your bike. On my CB500F I rarely used the back brake, only with the front one for emergency braking and to hold the bike when stopped. Even at slow speeds it just did not have stopping power, while over the 45,000 miles I spent on it I was able to use the front one very smoothly at low speeds. Just before Christmas I rode my NC750X for the first time, and the brakes are so much sharper that my old way of riding did not work and I had adjusted to the back brake by the time I got home.
What I find interesting about this clip is the micro adjustments to balance that you make when stopping. I had 18 years away from motorcycling, but returned to them in April of this year, with the purchase of an r nine t Urban Gs. It proved a good choice of reintroduction, but not as a bike for pillion use. Two weeks ago I purchased a 2010 R1200RT, and absolutely love the bike, but have become aware that I am making the same micro adjustments when stopping. I didn't do this on the r nine, so was wondering why I do it on the RT? I'm not bothered about it, but am curious about it.
I have a persistent and annoying problem when I have or try to put right foot down. I train to control the foot I put down in a plain field but anyway the results are still far from perfect when purposely chose to put my right foot down. The problem is about “tilting” the bike into the right side and sometimes what happens is I have to put left foot down instead. At first, clearly, a problem in ending the stop with the front brake. Now, that’s much better. Someone said that helps to do a kick movement with my right foot. It helps, but I thought it would be sufficient to extend my leg to right side to make the bike “tilt”/lean slightly to the right to make it perfectly balanced in the right way. Any thoughts? It’s kind of awkward to still struggle with this simple thing. And I have a very light bike, so it’s way forgiving when something doesn’t go well.
In general front and rear braking combined should be used simultaniously for any braking , from approaching at traffic light or under all normal traffic conditions up to also emergency stopping. It is taught as such in the USA as it gets one to use both automatically all of the time and so we build up muscle memory and use both brakes. Without that training one starts to use either brake singly and one can then fail to use both when actually required to do so in an emergency. So for generally every purpose for a stopping situation use both brakes. Under normal stopping one is also recommended to come off the front brake a few metres/yards away from the actual stop and finish the stop with the rear brake only as that prevents the front of the bike from bouncing at the halt and ,makes the stop movement smoother and more controllable with no front bounce. A stated if one is stopping at say a junction and using both brakes if one is slowing and turning with the front wheel turned if you have on or use too much front brake at that time gravity takes over and you could destabilise the bike. it bec09emsd heavier and over you go. The rear brake is generally used to afford greater machine control in slow moving conditions such as in queues or u turns, final stopping etc. usually with clutch control also. Hope that helps a little.
Get the revs up before releasing the clutch (slowly & smoothly). Hold on to that rear brake until you feel the bike biting forward from releasing the clutch. You will get there - keep at it.
For me hill starts are all about coming off the brake gradually as the bike starts to move, releasing the clutch and throttle is the same as normal. If you just let the bike guide how you come off the brake then you can even set off if you did not know you were in second gear as you missed a downshift when stopping. It is just as smooth, only it happens more slowly
@SteveLawrance thanks Steve, yes our students are very resilient! I always try to down play dropping bikes in general and treat it as an opportunity to pick them up safely along with putting measures in place to prevent it further. I think its good to make each experience as positive as possible for a new rider and not make it negative or shameful. All the best
Good advice...& for me a good reminder....Thanks 👍 🏍
Also even experienced bikers should be aware of bootlaces getting hung up on the peg.
Don't ask how I know
I couldn't agree more . At 5'6" foot placement is everything . Slow riding practise is essential in my opinion. Ive not dropped a bike in over 30 years but have come close !!! It's always a spot of gravel under my not flat foot that gives me a fright ! Great solid , real world video . Thanks .
I know you have covered this before and it is something infrequently discussed and explained, in terms of road camber and quality of road surface at junctions. Looking ahead at road surface, camber and positioning for the hazard, slowing for a turning left and right at a junction, and potentially having to stop and put a foot down where progress is not possible. The small things can often be overlooked at times but is definitely very important knowledge for new and less experienced riders. It all makes sense when you have a 1 mile an hour spill at a junction because of putting the wrong foot down because of lack of early vision. Another great video.
Using the right footwear seems obvious but is such an important factor in establishing a firm grip on the road surface when putting a foot down. The soft, spongy roll of a sneaker or sports shoe is enough to compromise balance on cambered surface.
So true, I will put my right foot down if I think it's more stable to do so. Road surface drops slightly to the left on a right hand turn then definitely going to be right foot down. I learnt this the hard way when I got my first big bike. Great content again thankyou ❤
There are two types of camber. One is where its a straight line drop from the centre to the verge with a constant graduation and the other is where there is a crown to the centre of the road and the camber is then graduated downwards with the most fall in it being closer to the nearest, to the kerb or verge. Beware of the second one as the degree of fall is greatest/steepest nearest the drain or kerbside.
Great video as always 👍 passed with your teaching 8 years ago and still riding n learning to this day
This is just fantastic advice, and should be a mandatory watch for all levels of
About the second or third time I went out after getting my CB500F I took a wrong turn in Broadstairs, heading downhill to the sea. There was a turning to the left so I took it to perform a u-turn but the gradient was all wrong and over went the bike. I got it up, all was fine, but it was facing the wrong way and although I get it on the stand, trying to get back on it went over again. This time it snapped off most of the brake lever. Someone saw and helped me get the bike the right way up and facing the right way, and I rode very carefully to Tesco. I bought some small electronics screwdrivers to use as splints for the snapped off part and a roll of gaffer tape to hold it together to fashion a working brake lever and was able to safely ride home back to London. I was in equal parts annoyed at my stupidity and impressed by my ingenuity!
I tend to drop my bike in very public places with lots of spectators.
Sods law...
My old fella once dropped the clutch on a 250cc scooter at traffic lights and it flipped him off it in front of a load of 'real' bikers who thought it was quite amusing!😂
It's not a drop if nobody sees it. I find it's best to do them in grocery shop car parks on a typical payday, just after school gets out. Arriving at or leaving a pub or a cafe on a lovely summer's day when everyone from town seems to be dining Al Fresco, is another great option. It also helps if you can have a work mate there to see you, or one of your in laws that you pretty much only catch up with at birthdays and Christmas is there.
The upside - there are a lot of deck hands to help pick her up if she's on the heavier side.
My first drop, after 900 miles on my 125, was at a T-junction which slopes upwards slightly. I stopped with the bike pointing a little to the left, this meant that the weight of the bike was now diagonally across the bike, instead of inline with the wheels, this caused me to lose balance and down she went. Fortunately not much damage to either of us. A good lesson was learned that day and I finally joined the real bikers club! I'll look out for slopes in the future and consider what effect this will have on the stability of the bike. Good video!
Those hill type junction are a bugger. We have one or two and knowing them I always stop early to try to give me some room to accelerate forwards before I turn the wheel and without coming onto a main road. That way if the turn is not on I can stop in a straight line and hopefully not on the main road. I always point my bike up towards towards such a junction and not at any angle at all and as I would under normal circumstances do. When turning right I initially ride across the road and not initiating turning too early. My road is now level and then when crossing over the mid line I then turn into my desired direction.
Keep safe and ride well.
Very helpful video again
Excellent video. When doing anything, but riding a Moto especially, when someone with suitable experience says _"you must do it this way"_ will normally be good advice, but not always! Instead, as you pointed out, you should do what is most expedient at that time even if it goes against all the "rules".
Excellent tutorial , for too many years I habitually solely put my left foot down / utilised the , ‘ Hendon Shuffle ‘ . I completed my IAM training last year during which my observer , ( with incredible patience ! ) finally had me also utilising my right foot down where appropriate . Having this additional skill has proved a real asset , great follow up video & advice .
Excellent tuition as usual!
Thank you !
If you are vertically challenged, as I am at 5’7”, road camber determines which foot goes down. Riding mostly on the left, it’s the right foot. When I tour in places where they drive on the right, sometimes the left foot is my better option.
Motorcycle license tests should not dictate which foot, rather the assessment should be based on the rider successfully stopping, starting and turning.
I have found that hill starts can be accomplished without needing the foot brake, but it does take practice to juggle front brake and throttle with the right hand. This is something I have never seen taught, but should be for those occasions when the right foot is on the ground.
My BMW GSA knew all the points in your video, (never told me), and demonstrated the consequence of each . . . on several occasions and will still 'try it on' if I'm not diligent. As my wife put it - 'I love riding out on the bike, I just wish I was able to get off before we come to a stop . . . '. I am getting better . . .
@martin9756 thank you martin, this did make me smile! Enjoy the progression! all the best
When it comes to a camber in the road not a lot of riders know that there are two types of camber. Camber is the slope made in a roads surface, starting with the highest point of the camber being in the centre of the road and then it trails down hill slightly as we move towards the nearside kerb or verge. Its designed to assist water after or during rain to speedily drain nto the gutter and away.
However the two types of camber are one, a straight line one when the angle or degree of descent is constant with say 2/3 degree or more of a constant fall from the centre line down to the kerbside.. The second is what I call a crown camber where for a few feet or yards, depending on the width of the carriageway the camber initially doesn't fall straight from the centre of the road and like a slight hump it then it descends more rapidly toward the kerb side at a greater angle of descent.
This second one I have found occurs on bends etc and if one is too far to the left and closer to the kerb on a right hand bend then one can experience a greater drop in the camber. That can upset the riding stability of the bike and that is something we don't want whilst leant over on a bend at speed. That is one reason why we should be no less than position number 1 on any right hand bends.
Excellent video, great advice. Always learning from your videos. Thanks.
Fantastic video as ever - warns me against developing bad habits now I have passed DAS. Dropped my bike once grabbing the front brake on a U-Turn while looking down - it was a horrible day! :(
Thanks for this, this a great video covering quite important aspect of riding.
You can put out good information , it’s up to the individual whether they take advantage of that knowledge 😃🍻
Good video. If I am using the front to stop slowly I am only ever using a finger, therefore no harsh grabbing possible. Scanning where you're stopping is so important when you get up to a big bike. If the floor I choose to stop on suddenly drops an extra inch or two, there's no way I am touching the floor on a tall bike and over we go!
Good and informative video. My bike has no fancy tech or abs. I have to do things slightly differently because of my disabilities. I use both brakes together. I finding this is working for me better and I'm coming to a smoother stop and more balanced. I put left or both feet down. If you look at Jerry Palindinos (Motorman) video on braking he demonstrates that using both brakes together saves about 10 feet in stopping distance that back brake front brake. This technique has saved my bacon countless times. I can now put my left foot down regardless of terrain.
I've commented on your channel before. I'm the chap from just outside Glasgow that couldn't get the cat A licence because of the manual handling exercise. You'll be pleased to know that I have finally got the medical evidence I need to take to my test from my consultant. It states my medical conditions and that she does not recommend me to do the manual handling exercise. I have also sought legal advice. My lawyer is saying that the DVSA are in violation of the equality act and should I be made to push my motorcycle round from one parking bay to another or fail my test because of this issue she will be bring legal proceedings against the DVSA. I have to take this letter to my test also. Finally after 4 years or riding. I might actually get there. I'm just letting you know in case another student with disabilities finds themselves in the same position. Hate a 125cc now. They suck.
Would love to do one of your intensive courses that I saw on your website at Chorley, but somehow, I don't think my bike would fit on the train. (lol).😂
There is no doubt that when braking particularly hard or in an emergency situation the us of both brakes is important. However under normal riding situations of slowing , particularly if going to stop say at lights, a junctions or in traffic then we can let off the front brake at a slowing speed and finish coming to a full stop on the rear brake only. That stops any up and down movement of the front forks and it gives us a steadier and more progressive stop without that bouncing occurring.
I have arthritis and a weak left knee joint that can give way sometimes so many a time I also put two feet down in order to facilitate a safer more balanced stop. My bike is an automatic scooter and so I can use the left handlebar brake as that activates the back brake only so no need for foot operation on pegs.
I am 75 years of age and have been riding scooters for the last 10 years and it has kept me on two wheels whereas I would be struggling with a larger motorcycle.
Unless emergency braking I would think with good observation you should never need an extra 10ft of stopping distance. But as part of all the rules of riding being "always do it this way unless the situation means it is better to do something else," those situations include your own abilities and knowing your bike. On my CB500F I rarely used the back brake, only with the front one for emergency braking and to hold the bike when stopped. Even at slow speeds it just did not have stopping power, while over the 45,000 miles I spent on it I was able to use the front one very smoothly at low speeds. Just before Christmas I rode my NC750X for the first time, and the brakes are so much sharper that my old way of riding did not work and I had adjusted to the back brake by the time I got home.
What I find interesting about this clip is the micro adjustments to balance that you make when stopping. I had 18 years away from motorcycling, but returned to them in April of this year, with the purchase of an r nine t Urban Gs. It proved a good choice of reintroduction, but not as a bike for pillion use.
Two weeks ago I purchased a 2010 R1200RT, and absolutely love the bike, but have become aware that I am making the same micro adjustments when stopping. I didn't do this on the r nine, so was wondering why I do it on the RT? I'm not bothered about it, but am curious about it.
3:52 Wish I’d seen this before my Mod 2. This is exactly how I failed the test. 🤦♂️
Good video
I have a persistent and annoying problem when I have or try to put right foot down. I train to control the foot I put down in a plain field but anyway the results are still far from perfect when purposely chose to put my right foot down. The problem is about “tilting” the bike into the right side and sometimes what happens is I have to put left foot down instead. At first, clearly, a problem in ending the stop with the front brake. Now, that’s much better.
Someone said that helps to do a kick movement with my right foot. It helps, but I thought it would be sufficient to extend my leg to right side to make the bike “tilt”/lean slightly to the right to make it perfectly balanced in the right way.
Any thoughts? It’s kind of awkward to still struggle with this simple thing. And I have a very light bike, so it’s way forgiving when something doesn’t go well.
Thank you, sir.
Could you please recommend which situations we should use front or rear brakes or both?
In general front and rear braking combined should be used simultaniously for any braking , from approaching at traffic light or under all normal traffic conditions up to also emergency stopping. It is taught as such in the USA as it gets one to use both automatically all of the time and so we build up muscle memory and use both brakes. Without that training one starts to use either brake singly and one can then fail to use both when actually required to do so in an emergency. So for generally every purpose for a stopping situation use both brakes.
Under normal stopping one is also recommended to come off the front brake a few metres/yards away from the actual stop and finish the stop with the rear brake only as that prevents the front of the bike from bouncing at the halt and ,makes the stop movement smoother and more controllable with no front bounce. A stated if one is stopping at say a junction and using both brakes if one is slowing and turning with the front wheel turned if you have on or use too much front brake at that time gravity takes over and you could destabilise the bike. it bec09emsd heavier and over you go.
The rear brake is generally used to afford greater machine control in slow moving conditions such as in queues or u turns, final stopping etc. usually with clutch control also.
Hope that helps a little.
You’re welcome. Yes, please visit my braking video for further explanation of braking. All the best
That was my bad habit while learning 😢
I’m always dropping my bike on hill starts , as soon as I go to pull off I have a habit of stalling and the losing control of the weight of the bike
Get the revs up before releasing the clutch (slowly & smoothly). Hold on to that rear brake until you feel the bike biting forward from releasing the clutch. You will get there - keep at it.
@@davidyates1299 yeah I just need to relax and stop panicking
For me hill starts are all about coming off the brake gradually as the bike starts to move, releasing the clutch and throttle is the same as normal. If you just let the bike guide how you come off the brake then you can even set off if you did not know you were in second gear as you missed a downshift when stopping. It is just as smooth, only it happens more slowly
Great vid again, but I’d like to add that your student should be commended for getting back on and trying again, many would have been put off…
@SteveLawrance thanks Steve, yes our students are very resilient! I always try to down play dropping bikes in general and treat it as an opportunity to pick them up safely along with putting measures in place to prevent it further. I think its good to make each experience as positive as possible for a new rider and not make it negative or shameful. All the best
Look it is practice practice practice. Repeat repeat repeat.
She could do with using a monokey bike as she didn't look the tallest person 🤭