Disagree on flamer rending, it actually makes it more viable for teamplay now. You soften the armor of crushers etc for others to actually kill since youre not kiling them with 20% rending on a flamer, barely tickles, but is good team support
While you're right, the combination of the flamer buffs and the plasma blessing additions sets a precedence of power creep that I don't like. If fatshark never buffs the flamer weapons again after this I don't think it'll be that much of an issue, but considering they debatably buffed plasma with these new blessing when its already one of the strongest weapons in the game, it doesn't really bode well for weapons that are on the cusp of being too good.
@@jtcLIVE That's a terrible way to balance a game, please do not balance weapons against theoretical additional balance changes. Need to be vocal about how flamer should stay as is not that it shouldn't get changes that increase player interactivity. I know that we are treating fatshark like children, and I know its often justified, but we can't shit at them for good additions BEFORE they fuck up.
@@furner837I mean I do agree with you that it’s bad to balance based on theoreticals - That’s why I mentioned that the current changes are not an issue yet, but fatshark should be careful with any future changes.
that is fair, I can't help but feel like they missed the window with their game again like they did with vermintide 2, game turned out amazing... eventually it, kinda wish they went darkest dungeon/baldurs gate 3 route where they release modding support and let the modders add longevity through that way, I know it's not realistic at this point this is something you have to think about in advance at earlier stages (and no steam workshop does not count as mod support :D )
Like I'm going to engage armoured heavy hitters in your stream of sh...which prevents me from seeing clearly their animation state, and specials near by. Flame based weapons should have been never added to VT2 and DT in the first place.
I have played about 3900 hours of this game and only play Damnation Hi-Shock or Maelstrom. In my experience, Plasma and 2a Revolver are clearly overpowered and the pickup rate of other players is outstanding. If they have one person on my team, fine, but if two or more people use these weapons, there is nothing to do and the game balance collapses. I even left a match halfway through because it was no fun. At the very least, buffing the weapons that don't need to be nerfed but are underperforming is clearly a top priority
I have like 800 hours and i f*cking detest plasma. Revolver I can live with because AT LEAST you need to build for it. Plasma is just point it at the enemy, pull the trigger and win. PLasma is brainless and makes the rest of the team obsolete. It's infuriating when somebody obliterates like half a shotgunner patrol with 1 plasma shot. At that point my speedy grenadier Vet is just standing there doing sod all. The team would be better served if I was not there and they had a zealot/psyker for horde killing.
3900!!!!! Congrats! :) I only have 1500 and my laptops keyboard is falling apart because of this game! I mean I'm happy I found it, last game that hooked me like this was the first Battlefield games. I recently had to re-map the WASD-keys because of Darktide wearing them out and now I'm getting used to it again, sometimes slipping over to the old keys mid-combat. Also you're right about those weapons, they're not exactly top priority to boost while some others are.
I dont think everything should be good in pve games as there will always be weapons that arent good. No reason they cant change plasma and especially because its getting a power blessing that could be better than blaze away. Also i really think theyre going to either stealth change things or theyre going to change things they arent mentioning. I will be shocked if the plasma gun gets a new power blessings and 3 other blessings but doesnt change in some way shape or form. Theyre putting in a blessing that makes it so you cant explode or something like that and right now thats of no concern so they definitely have changes in mind.
I play plasma but thats cuz its my favorite weapon and I hate bulwarks. I also love its a single shot weapon and that I can destroy bosses from across the room while someone else has aggro. I enjoy the revolver and the plasma gun because theyre single shot weapons and not because theyre op. I also love plasma because of just how much firepower you can put down range before you need to reload whereas the revolver gets 5 shots before you need to reload. Also idk how they balance the plasma gun because if you play psyker blowing up wont ever be of concern cuz you just vent for 5 seconds and youre back down to 50% anyway. Also considering people played plasma long before the weapon was good, people will still use the weapon even if it gets nerfed. My aim with the plasma gun and revolver are a hell of alot better than say my aim with a columnus and an accatran but its all personal preference at the end of the day really. That and the fact that im on console so my aims only gonna be so good anyway. Ive seen peoppe say they favor automatic weapons on console and single shots on pc but outside of the braced autogun im the opposite.
@@infrared6973 I gotta be honest with you... there are other ways to kill bulwarks than plasma. These ways also don't invalidate your entire team. A good plasma shot can annihilate half of a shotgunner pat on heresy and damnation. No other ranged weapon on vet can do that. None, nada, zero, zilch. It's just completely OP. What was is also not a factor, it is good right now and it is possibly going to be stronger. Your subjective fun should not invalidate the fun of 3 other players in the lobby who did not pick the plasma up. I'm sorry, but that's just all there is to it... Also, with plasma you don't need to aim ANYWHERE. Just go vaguely for centre of mass and you are OK. Revolver AT LEAST requires you to im at a weakspot to get the best out of it and does not overpenetrate half a shotty pat.
The downside of Purga is having the slowest time to kill any individual enemy (soulblaze ticks at half the rate of flame/bleed), and shortest range of any weapon (notably shorter than the zealot flamer). The upside is that a slow time to kill isn't so bad if you're slowly killing everything within range. I think it is probably the weapon that scales up the most with the density of nearby enemies. If there are only a few enemies, and your teammates are active, you won't have much impact as everything will die to melee/bullets before you have a chance to charge up and apply soulblaze. But when the team is overrun it starts to really shine. Your teammates will still get the killing blows on anything they're attacking, but anything that is being ignored is on a timer to die. If you are aggressive and run in front of the team to open on each new pack of enemies you will smash the others on the damage meters, but that is true of many weapons when played that way. If another player is also being aggressive and pushing hard, the faster time to kill of melee/bullets will generally out perform the Purga. So generally you only see the Purga seeming OP when the rest of the team aren't doing well, unlike the Plasma which will make the game boring even for good teammates because of its extremely quick time to kill. The real elephant in the room, imo, that no one is talking about though is Purga getting Blaze Away. It is the first blessing available to Purga that gives a direct power buff. While it is likely only going to be active during the final parts of channeling out the secondary (depending on which version they implement, but safe to guess it will be the flamer variant that doesn't trigger from primary attacks or roll over between attacks), even just that will be a significant improvement to its time to kill. You shared a section from my post on the forum, so you know the rending blessing is going to most often be a 0% or 4% dmg buff. Blaze Away with its 40% power buff vs everything, even if only active intermittently, is going to have far more impact on the damage output. My guess is that if Purga becomes meta it will be with warp flurry or warp nexus paired with blaze away. As for the new talents, the only one that I think is likely to really benefit the Purga is Empyric Shock, as a few puffs of primary fire after stacking up dots will give a fairly strong and long dmg boost to those ticking dots. Other staves (but mostly void) running the new 10 second peril immunity sub node on Scryers Gaze are most likely to be the biggest winners from the new talents though, and the staff build I most expect to see being complained about once it is becomes established as a playstyle. If you lean into all of the CDR available in the Psyker tree, it is likely that you'll be able to maintain that peril immunity for as long as each fight lasts.
I disagree on the flame weapons. As is they are okay at best and with the new blessings they’ll maybe be good at best. 20% rending is a drop in the bucket in damage calc. Plasma gun may need a magsize decrease and a 2-3 elite cleave cap. But lore wise you can’t justify making it weak damage wise.
Agree with your take on the plasma, I've been calling for nerfs for this thing for almost a year at this point. I remember back then most people disagreed that it was imbalanced so its good to see the prevailing opinion within th community come around. Two of these with even mid aim is enough to invalidate the highest difficulty, it's not healthy. It doesn't even need that many changes, just more heat generated per uncharged fire and then a reduced ammo cost on the charged shot. Your take on the flamer I do not agree with though. What invalidates melee more, all the pox walkers dying? or all the elites and specials dying? Because I sure as hell do not want to play swing at the poxwalkers simulater. Single target weapons are currently far far superior to the flame weapons and doing a lot more to negatively affect the melee play experience. Flamers should definitely never ever be over powered, but currently they're mid tier at best, and massively outclassed by other options. I feel like from your tone and wording there's some bias towards these weapons which you seem to acknowledge but I really do not think they're as bad as single target weapons. Even with the rending, their TTK on targets will still be slow they will now actually do something against armor.
Flamers are deceptively difficult weapons to balance in the tide genre because of the variations of health and spawn rates in the different difficulties - If you make them really good in the top difficulties, they become oppressive in the lower difficulties because of the reduced spawn rates, but if they're balanced in lower difficulties then they're typically considered subpar in higher difficulties. Vermintide has that exact issue with their flamer weapons. Fatshark was never really able to find a sweet spot on how to make it good in all difficulties without shunning the experience in at least one difficulty. Right now their flamer on Sienna swung back to the overpowered realm and its really egregious in all difficulties, and I really don't want the same thing to happen here in Darktide. I mentioned in the video how I don't think the rending will break either weapon (especially since fatshark clarified that rending will cap at 20% instead of 68ish%), but I was more trying to warn about what this path could eventually lead to rather than saying that this patch WILL lead to this end.
@@jtcLIVE that's a fair point, I would imagine they'll be fine when they get the rending buff as that helps to offset the loss of strength from the fury nerf with the other buff it had received. Typically I would expect the game to be balanced around difficulty 4 as beneath that... it starts to not really matter what you run as the ability for one player to hard dominate with anything becomes a lot easier. I wouldn't really care if they flame weapons were weak in damnation though, I think if you're playing the top difficulty then the idea is to have yourself challenged. Given the flamethrowers have no actual skill element to them they don't really match with what the top level is aiming for anyway.
I can't really comment on what changes the plasma needs since I don't have much playtime with it, but I agree that it's overturned right now. I have a lot of hours with purgatus. Flamers, they are strong against hordes, but weak to being outranged, heavy enemies that can don't get staggered, and enemies that DoT effects take too long to deal with (especially crushers, muties, hounds, but really all specials and elites) Since flamers are mechanically easy to use, people make the mistake of not knowing when to switch to melee to deal with higher threats. "...20% rending isn't enough to make a difference in the grand scheme of things..." Especially considering since it takes time to accumulate those stacks for a very modest dmg buff. I don't think it's cause for alarm at the moment. TLDR: Plasma is too strong, flamers not too strong. JTC, thanks for your efforts on the video, and for creating a space for discussion
@@bradley6471 I totally agree that the game should be balanced with higher difficulties in mind (since that is the end goal of someone's journey), but its crucial to ensure that the lower difficulties are still fun to play for people who are new - Otherwise we won't have good new player retention, and the game's community will stagnate. Metas will inherently shift as you raise in difficulty (and its natural for them to do so), but its still important to make sure that the meta is not so far out of whack that it stops people from both playing AND enjoying the game. I also am of the opinion that flamer should have an overall lower skill ceiling compared to other weapons to reward people who choose to take the time to become at things that require more time investment and skill to use well, but thats a topic for another video lol
The flamer is still incredible in this game, the problem is most zealots dont know how to properly utilize throwing knives and movement to deal with the ranged threats that you will inevitably encounter with the lack of range the flamer has. Also the flamer is incredible at melting bosses. The flamer is still a top tier weapon by anyone who knows how to use it. Also plenty people will say the flamer grenades replaced the flamer but thats not true cuz if you play with fire nades you cant take throwing knives and theyre busted in this game if you know how to use them well. Also rending makes bleed and fire dots even more potent in this game because of how all that works together. If youre playing with a vet who knows how to properly get value out of demo team and grenades you shouldnt have any issues melting armor in this game. Just think about what combat stims, an ogryn with bleed on heavy, shredder grenades, and a flamer can do to a map full of armored enemies.
the difference there is most weapons in helldivers are not good, and then they nerfed the ones that were. Most weapons in darktide ARE good, and they're buffing the ones that are... It's a mirror flip of the helldivers situation, neither is good or healthy. The power creep has and will continue to rob the game of its difficulty.
At the end of the day, people just want to have fun with the weapons they like. There's other ways to increase difficulty than strictly number manipulation.
Agree about the bell curve idea. Shotguns could use a dmg buff, or something which helps them rip thru multiple enemies better. Shotties couls probably use a bigger ammo pool too. Bolters just feel like they need more ammo, both in mag and in pool. Anyways, that's just my 2 cents for weapons I like to use. We'll see what happens in a week!
This is like the one game I play where I just bruteforce a build and it works. Ever since I got my hands in one, I never stopped using my Combat Axes (VIII i think?) and kinda just built my character around using it. Still need to learn how to properly block and push stuff but still. Depending on the team I'll go through a malice mission without downing simply because I've just gotten into the rhythm of proccing VOC to knock em down, blast them with both barrels of my shotgun and start whacking. This only applies to ragers, maulers and crushers. Everything else dies in like 2-3 hits, sometimes a strong attack does it in one. I wouldn't say it's overpowered because a horde can still take me out but if I have a zealot or ogryn on the team I'll usually just buddy up with them and act as support since VOC also just restores toughness back to full depending on how much you have depleted. Melee veteran is actually so much fun
It gets no buffs but my much loved mk13 Chainsword is a near god roll on stats already and just needs to max out one perk to be considered a god roll. That'll matter less with the new patch but I still look forward to seeing and fulfilling what additional potential it has. Hopefully I can push it over the 80% limit on some stats.
Eh, imo a flamethrower is a melee build, so if another player is running something completely melee centric, thats less of a flamethrower issue and more of a team composition issue. The flame staff is the ranged option for psyker, so you have melee and more melee. Literally any option for any other class should have a job to do unless youre a zealot with a flame thrower.
5:40 i mean i dont completely agree with this logic because let's say the melee spec guy stopped playing melee and suddenly the party is overwhelmed by mini bosses back to back and the melee who was hanging back finally has a chance to shine. All builds have their niches and shouldn't be nerfed because they shine more during teamplay. Also from all the solo clear videos its usually a melee spec that i've seen, so let both be viable and both have their moments. Not every build needs 100% uptime for 100% dopamine rush, they have their moments and necessity when the situation calls for it, because as usual the tide games always throws in random spawns that will counter your build. Like lets say a flamer is suddenly surrounded by dogs and the only guy who's fending them off without getting pinned is the melee build who(has insane reflexes)didn't have much to do prior to the encounter. It is a team game and its a warhammer game, so the end goal is to complete the mission for the emperor. Nerfing builds is heresy.
overall i agree with your bell curve balance logic, but yeah things have their niches and the game devs are doing well with the changes compared to launch.
Weapons like flamer (which already got a strong buff last update) and purgatus getting these blessings will for sure cause major problems with the current environment of meta. Stacking on more powerful weapons to even more powerful weapons is like digging a grave further and further. At some point when they realize they have to nerf them, the grave will be too deep to revert these changes without significant backlash. Same goes for plasma
The plasma gun is definitely over picked and is strong enough to reason that. Wish that they’d either nerf it or make lesser used weapons more appealing. (also I really hope they make it easier to level ogryn’s new weapons and such given his won’t cross progress across classes :) as well as maybe buff him but I’ll take what I can get lol )
My buddy almost exclusively plays plasma vet and it’s so void of skill expression; he tanks through everything with toughness regen and 1 shots everything. So lame haha
I'm positive to the Patch Notes so far. Granted, I'm not hard to please if they just take off the locks. Although why they'd add rending to flamers or add more damage to Plasma and not give Thunderous to the MK13 chainsword is surprising. Won't it end up the only weapon not having an option for Brittle/ Thunderous then, in relative terms nerfing it? Because in the notes it got nothing. zip. just nothing. I mean sure, I like it a lot for my playstyle as a Zealot but it's a solid A-tier weapon, not an S-tier (or top extreme of the bell curve as you put it) while the plasma gun is up there on S already. Lets see what they got though, maybe there's more to follow.
The issue with the Plasma is really just that it's dealing such an universally high damage against all armor modifiers paired with very easy handling and that it's not the U5 but several identically equipped Vets per team possible. Like high enough dmg to one-tap enough elites, low TTK against Crushers AND supercleave. Unlike other guns who deal a lot less damage against Maniac or Carapace armour type, for example. Suppression doesn't matter because you can't ADS anyway and it's drawn instantly. A single guy with a Plasma is no big deal either and will not win the team the whole game like a Vermintide OE or pre-rework SOTT does. At least nowadays the Vet at least has enough tools to make other ranged weapons very good against Carapace and stuff as well or get grenades against them. Plasma imo doesn't need many changes to have a more logical inclusion in the overall balance. It should overall remain a death ray so it feels right but maybe just tweak the handling (weapon cooling?) and some dmg and cleave values against certain armour types and keep the quite bad ammo efficiency. I don't think the Plasma deserves a dmg nerf over the whole board. Same for the Revolver, it has just 5 shots and shouldn't end up in the same spot as the throwing axes from Vermintide. Ofc you should expect that FS wouldn't butcher the Revolver like that but then again, throwing axes from Vermintide. They sometimes really have fat fingers when it's about balance. Btw what does melee even mean in this game anymore? When people on reddit began complaining about the Plasma as game killer, it has somehow not been an issue that shield Ogryn, Smite or Purgatus/Void/Trauma Psyker and like every Zealot loadout basically ignores melee threats. It's not as spectacular as popping heads with Plasma and Boltgun shots as long as everything is fine but arguably safer when everything goes south, without needing to bank on an ult. Since the beta a Purgatus Psyker has been a no-brainer loadout to have the back of the entire team and that hasn't ever changed. Only now they're complaining about Smite. If I want a more challenging melee gameplay, I basically need to play Vet only because it doesn't exist on other classes.
i personally find the crusher to be too strong. It having such incredibly high unyielding finesse damage just doesnt feel right to me tbh. I used to only use that weapon for about 2 months some time back, until I realized it just made things too easy
I know this is a DT video, but my hot take is current OE is worse than old SOTT ever was. Old SOTT could only pull off what she could with her ult cd up and maybe a strength or purple pot. OE with troll hammer and infinite bombs that have no ff and fire and explosive bombs effects means he can wipe hordes, monster/bosses and elites/patrols with absolute impunity in ways SOTT never did. He routinely triple or even quadruples the damage of “dps” classes in legend/cata+ runs.
Not a hot take I think, the subreddit doesn't complain about anything else than OE at this point. When they introduced Necro it became already apparent that FS had drawn inspiration from Darktide by the way how talents were set up for optimal use with certain weapons. Like there's that one class talent which is similar to old Brutal Momentum and obviously aimed at being used with the Scythe. Was a taste of fresh air but still struck me as quite odd. For OE I already knew by reading the patch notes that the Vet's grenade regen talent is a bad idea and has no place in this game. Vermintide's bombs have a more drastic impact in the game's environment than Vet grenades in Darktide. The ones from VT are more clutch buttons than something meant to be used regularly. OE can even upgrade the bombs further. The problem is also that all the people who have been ass at playing OE before the rework, which was basically everyone except a few handful, still absolutely suck at it and fold the moment they can't spam bombs anymore.
@@acealinka489 Yeah, true. And they did a lot of cross borrowing from each others’ talents/skills. Necro’s new staff is basically brain burst, you already mentioned vet grenade as OE grenade, but Victor zealot mechanic was copy pasted to DT zealot even though DT doesn’t have thp. And vet shout is kinda like the IB or merc shout. edit: also, the shield mechanic of letting you eat a free hit from enemies before taking damage is reminiscent of IB’s Gromril Armor ability.
@@acealinka489 Also, also, I think you’re spot on with vet bombs v OE bombs. I think the more ranged fighting nature of DT makes it so that having an additional ranged damage option isn’t as game breaking in DT. Additionally, friendly fire is a real concern in VT2 and forces you to decide if it’s safe to throw if teammates are near, but if you spec into it (and it’s basically the best talent at 15 or whatever it is), it completely takes that split second tactical decision making out (ff has never been an issue in DT, of course). When you have such powerful options you can just poop out all the time in a more melee oriented game, it causes massive issues. I never wanted any of the last balance patch changes at all. Nerfing GK and shade and BH bc boss killing classes killing bosses was... too much? In the meantime my stealth zealot or martyrdom zealot is one shotting /all/ monsters in auric missions... guess that may be changing, but whatever. I didn’t want the OE or even javelin changes either. I used to pride myself on being pretty decent with OE in legend/cata+ games where I could come out with most kills, dmg, monster dmg, etc, but also with least dmg taken. But, people complained he was too weak (he wasn’t; you could often top the green circles if you were good enough against good players) so he got buffed to stupid OP levels to where he just poops out damage. And the people who sucked with him before all of a sudden think they are good with him... even though their skill levels didn’t change, just the class.
I’m just mildly nervous that if the devs keep hearing a part of their active player base complain about weapons being too strong they’ll just go down the line of helldivers and end up nerfing everything which probably would kill all of my desire to play the game
@@jtcLIVE I don’t know jtc, I didn’t like /any/ of changes in the last major balance patch in VT2 to the point I stopped playing it for 6 months and changed my 2 year old review of it from thumbs up to thumbs down after nearly 9k hrs of playtime (yes, I said nearly 9k... actually as of this post I may be over 9k now) and I won’t change it back until they revert some or all of the changes which I don’t foresee at all. Now, I get that DT technically had a different team working on theirs (though I think there was some cross teaming leading up to the release?), but while I’ve loved the core games of VT2 and DT, FS continues to frustrate me with their decisions. Which is fine for something like DT where they’re hopefully still on an upswing, but it’s frightening for my love of VT2 where they should be just adding light little touches to fine tune things instead of wildly swinging for the fences like they did with OE or making inexplicable decisions for GK, Shade, BH... and closer to its end cycle than DT, I’m afraid they won’t revert those changes (they modified the shade change).
@@jtcLIVE That explains VT2 and makes DT more promising. That said, I still do like VT2 better bc it’s has 7(?) years of polish and I just like the environment/maps better. Some of the more recent DT maps have a little more variety, but ultimately we are in a Hive City which all look like the same decrepit, decaying mega city-scape. I’ve loved the Treachery maps a ton and the final fights and even though Karak Azgaraz maps are recreations of VT1 maps, I think they’re still great. Also, I just like the play cycle of VT2 better. When I finish a map, my group doesn’t auto-disband, we just go right back into another map. In DT, has the hour flipped and do I need to go check in with the vendor to see if they have any good base weapons worthy of upgrading? What does Melk have for me today? Have I saved enough to play Brunt’s rng lotto? I get some of these may be getting overhauled, but it’s been 2 years of having to interrupt actual gaming for some meta gaming bs (not meta in the sense of builds and weapons, of course). In VT2, I get rewarded for playing the game with chests I can save and open on any of my characters. Yeah, there is a grind, but I play, I’m rewarded. In DT, I have to run around and do these other tedious things in hopes I may get rewarded. If I get in a good group, I can crank out 3 maps in an hour, 4 if we are fast and get something like Screaming Bell. In DT, I’ll get one map, maybe two, but then the group auto-disbands and I’m dinking around with the vendor or Brunt’s or Melk’s or hoping to find a match which may not happen even if I am queuing up for qp. The hamster wheel grind is so much worse than VT2.
I was so happy Boltgun and Bolt Pistol get the much needed buffs, the added cleave so they act as they should is excellent. On the other hand, they further bumped up the cleave on the Revolvers-- that defeats the purpose of helping stop the metachuds from saying "the revolver is better"
Right, the Zarona's cleave couldn't actually be buffed more even if they wanted to, I don't think. It's pretty much at the cap of only being stopped by ogryns and monstrosities. The Agripinaa needed that buff. You don't really see the hammer-fan in high tier anymore.
Have to disagree with the flamer point, or atleast the purgatus staff since i dont play zealot but i have played a lot of the purgatus staff psyker (its my main build i use when i don't know what to bring or don't want some gimmicky build with scriers gaze or such), now the weapon has always been a solid choice and i love it but ngl the new blessing seems really... meh to me, it makes the weapon more support build that lets your teammates kill armored enemies faster but that weapon was NEVER meant to deal with crushers or any armored enemy, now is it a bad blessing? i wouldn't say so but with purgatus staff there already is way WAY better blessings like warp flurry, warp nexus and/or terrifying barrage, it can still be used but will the new blessing make the staff meta? not even close cuz youre trying to force a weapon to be something that its not, its meant to kill hordes and support your group by keeping non-elite enemies away from your team, giving it the rending makes it worse against that for some support buff to kill crushers faster but for that you would way rather have some other weapon i can see what you mean with the point, not wanting a weapon to become new meta, but i wouldn't even consider that blessing a buff for the weapon, its simply more choices but i highly doubt the weapons usage gonna change because of this blessing, i share with you the worry that they just gonna overbuff everything and the game becomes boring cuz simply everything is too good against the enemies we have now, but atleast on the purgatus point i don't see it becoming any better (note that i actually don't fully know how the rending will work with the dot, i never fully understood how rending works, so if the burning rending actually isn't like a debuff that increases all damage to it then its actually even worse)
Its a pve game i dont think balance really matters unless its a helldiver 2 kind of situation and like you cant spend real money to get weapons or blessings or whatever to do with gameplay so i must ask who cares?
I actually disagree with plasma gun being OP... but it is right on the edge, the thing that holds it in check is the heat mechanic. Yes you can do a fuckload of single target damage but you can only do that a few times before you need to vent, so when you're dealing with a boss or simply a high volume of non-trash enemies you can easily get overwhelmed. Plasma can also struggle somewhat vs crushers. I do agree however that it does not need more buffs before blessings, and I could jive with a slight increase in how fast it heats up. Just dont nerf the burst damage or high cleave, as it is those two things together that make this weapon stand out. As for the flame weapons, they dont need rending, what they need is thier stagger back, at least to a degree. They are crowed control weapons and thuis plays into that, but without making them kill stuff fasters, instead stagger sets up enemies for your melee classes to kill.
the heat mechanic is not a drawback it is a strength. I don't think you're looking at this weapon correctly. You never have to actually reload the thing in combat and the vent is what replaces it's reload, notably what makes it a benefit is that it allows you to partial reload where other weapons have to commit to longer periods of sustained down time. Every time you dodge, scan for a new target, do anything that is not shooting... you're partially reloading. This leads to the weapon itself having an insane up time. Dealing damage to bosses or weak enemies is irrelevant, because those enemy types do nothing. The enemies that do matter are elites and specials, all of which outside of the mutant and the mauler can be killed in a single uncharged attack. You get 8 attacks before needing to vent, vent partial reloads 2 and each of those is a one shot. That much ^^ is undisputed, my own controversial take however is that you should never ever use this for bosses or crushers anyway as it's a waste of ammo. If you just take kraks and a good melee weapon you will literally never run out of ammo, while having the fastest sustained ttk on elites across the game. It should keep its damage and cleave, but it should generate more heat on uncharged attacks as 8 is ridiculous. Think of it this way, it has the same breakpoints as the zarona outside of bosses and crushers. Except it has 8 shots to the zaronas 5, and can partial reload 2 shots at a time compared to it's 1. zarona is already an S tier weapon.
@@TheRealSykx Why click lmb more than is necessary, one click one kill. You'd have to miss a significant number of shots before having to reload mid combat, at that point just take a fraction of a second longer to aim and save yourself the ammo and time in the long run ;p
My big complaint on the plasma gun and voidstrike isn't necessarily their damage, but their cleave. The ammo sustain on the plasma gun with the regen aura is also still too good imo.
I saw the left side of the new psyker tree and thought to myself, "Welp, we're stuck with the B-team now." Clearly designed by people who do not play the game. Where the right was the complete opposite, someone really wants Scrizer's Gaze to be meta at all levels of play.
Agreed, psyker is one of the most enjoyable classes to play, don't see why it needs changed to the talent tree. The Ogre needs a good overhaul though, tweak some talents and give it some proper weapons!
Further explaining on the ogryn/psyker gap, I think closing this balance gap by bringing ogryn up would bring the two more in line with how they are supposed to be somewhat versatile but still specialist classes. It seems kinda weird in terms of design that the ogryn is sorta gimped in terms of overall combat capabilities. Despite having the biggest firepower in terms of guns (except for bolters and plasma guns) of the 4 classes, and being the biggest and tankiest. Lots of ogryn weapons feel like toy guns hitting like a wet noodle, compared to a specialized vet or psyker or zealot. Using the crowd control as an example, Crowd control for ogryn should be an option to spec into imo, not the default for every ogryn. There should be more options to specialize in our talent role as ogryn, as it is impossible to customize much further than being one of the 3 main roles the talent tree wants you to be. (tank/bulwark, heavy melee attacks, gunlugger)
maybe for most players, but those in the top 10% of skill that want to actually enjoy a challenging game? what about them? There shouldnt be any weapon in the game that invalidates the top difficulty.
@@be.a.7462the thing about the plasma gun is although its a very good weapon there are times where you have like 40 things on your screen and because youre using a single shot weapon you just cant focus on them all at once. Also the plasma gun makes you slow and it has a very slow reload. Im not saying its not an amazing weapon but its also not an automatic weapon either. The gun is amazing when everything is in a straight line right infront of you down a hallway but the moment im in a massive area with shooters everywhere i often wish I had my braced autogun.
@@infrared6973 You wish you had a BAG for precise shots on spread out ranged enemies? I'm not sure how that's better than just clicking the general vicinity of enemies with uncharged plasma shots, considering it swaps as fast, doesn't suffer from suppression and is arguably more ammo efficient at range.
@@r4plez nerfs just upset players. Its underatandable when something is clearly overpowered or broken but in general buffs are the way to go. Or at least when you nerf things you have to take into account its balance with other weapons.
@@madmammoth9022 its ok for certain skill based actions to be extra op, but the degree it is at now is extreme, where most weapons a few thousand damage but combat knife can stack attacks that deal over 30k damage each.
I've seen plasma gun like once in my last 30 or so missions, if something is really strong but unfun and thus less popular to play with as a result, that is also good balance in a way.
Make plasma explode on lmb at 100% and it will be "balanced" imo ... it will go from a strong faceroll weapon to a strong but dangerous weapon, closer to its flavor.
Who is using the plasma gun at 100 anyway? If you hit 100 you vent for 4 seconds and atart shooting again just like you do when youre managing peril. It wouldnt be difficult to never explode playing plasma because I never shoot past like 90% anyway.
Most of the weapon and balance changes seem fine but ogryns desperately need more weapon options, Ogryn has been in a Sienna style problem for a long time now of just not having nearly as many options as the rest and making them not nearly as replayable Also they’re doing another patch where zealot gets to remain completely busted lol (I’m a zealot main and they’re just better than everyone else by a lot)
Yeah there are people out there who can play ogryn well but i hate how semi automatic everything ogryn has is. I understand its all accurate to the lore or whatever but shooters and gunners just destroy my ogryn all the time and its so annoying. I get that alot of thats a skill issue at the end of the day but there are far too many times when there are no melee enemies around and gunners and shooters everywhere and all you have is a kickback or some other semi automatic weapon that cant deal with what you need to in a timely fashion and its rather annoying to play around. Yeah sure ogryn has stubbers but the MK IV is unwieldly slow and takes a thousand years to reload. I dont like the achlys outside of pbb because it just doesnt feel good to me. I love the stagger on the MK IV stubber but when you compare how unwieldly and slow and semi automatic everything ogryn has it really makes sense why so few people play the class. If you play ogryn he kind of seems like a war of attrition type character in the sense that sometimes youre just like well thats too many shooters and gunners so i guess im going down here, whereas other characters have different means to deal with things. Ogryn is just like well I have this rock I can throw one at a time at things.also I hate how you have to constantly reload everything on ogryn all the time and the gameplay loop of ogryn is just kinda weird to deal with. I also hate how ammo starved I feel when I play anything thats not a kickback ogryn.
@@infrared6973 I play Ogryn often and genuinely believe skills wise he is the second best class behind zealot, but all the weapons are almost the exact same and there just aren’t any weapon build varieties unfortunately
@@rumbling9879 i really wish ogryn had more automatic weapons somehow because almost everything ogryn has is semi automatic. Also i understand MK V ripper is meta but im on xbox and cant control the recoil past 10 meters to save my freaking life and i always feel like im wasting more ammo than i am killing efficient. Like if theirs gunners like 40 meters away or something unless I have rocks sometimes i feel like i dont even know what to do if im playing ripper gun cuz it kicks so crazy i know im not gonna kill them. I should probably just go back to playing stubber but last time I played stubber people were killing things so fast i felt like i barely used my range weapon all game it was a weird run.
I'm a Zealot main too and my opinion is that Psyker class used by a skilled player is more powerful. I played a game of Hi intensity Damnation with 3 psykers who knew their sh*t recently and I mostly just stood guard and watched them electrify and burn everything. They'd leave me some token enemies sometimes to cut down but the Hordes and even monstrosities just melted before them. I Zealot because I enjoy it the most, because I like the hands-on approach, not because it's meta. But yeah, it's not a bad class by any means.
They need to nerf the combat knives, they are SO overtuned and now with the thunder hammer changes, the knife is STILL the best weapon in the game especially for killing bosses.
The combat knife in the right hands is super-deadly, I agree. But for most players (From my experience, I pretty much play only Darktide after work daily, since beta) average players get downed with the combat knife, just as much as any other melee weapon. If Fatshark DID nerf it, I don't want a lazy 'Zenyatta nerf' that clobbers the weapon into oblivion, just because a small minority of players are monsters with it.
Yeah, I’m inclined to agree. Just bc the best of the best make it a monster weapon doesn’t mean the rest of the 99% of the other players can get that level of juice out of it.
Most players running combat knife isn't getting it to perform to that level though. It takes a specific optimized crit build and playstyle as well as skill. That's when it shines. With only a combat knife and no build for it the performance is about average or even below some other weapons.
The knives are damn near useless without skill and the blessing, and the blessings are often what makes them a fun weapon to wield. Skill is still honestly the biggest determinant of someone being a monster at the game.
I disagree. I think your reasoning is sound, your argument is adequate, but you are over-valuing the impact this will have by an order of magnitude. Plasma being OP, is fine. Purgatus .... is fine. The value of avoiding power creep, over-rated. The loss of immersion from changes to weapons, exaggerated. We are going to see a massive quantity of data from the unlock. That data will inform future balance changes that are dedicated to balance. This is more than good enough.
As for flamethrowers, it would be more realistic if it was weak against dregs. Nurgle worshipers are unlikely to be easily flammable due to all that mucus and other bodily fluids. However, scabs should burn better because the fuel would stick to the armor, which is how it works in real life. Helldivers 2 has such nerf problems
I agree that the plasma gun is overpowered but i disagree that it needs to be nerfed. Currently it fills a niche that it needs too which is one of the best ways to consistently clear hordes of heavy armor. It doesnt feel great getting crusher spammed out of a game because no one in the party can deal with that amount of armor fast enough.
Agree. Most of all about Plasma. Plasma is simply not fun to play alongside and gets boring to use quickly for anyone even halfway acquainted with high tier difficulty. I think it's unhealthy for the game to have any weapon that drives people to leave matches. A while back it was pre-nerf, pre-class rework Flamer. Before Darktide, it was pre-nerf Javelin and Moonbow. These games have lost nothing from reeling back the spectacularly overpowered things into the healthier places they are now. All those old favorites still have their places. Plasma can be like that, too. As for the Flamer rending blessing, I don't think it will amount to much anymore, thankfully. 20% Rending is not that much (compared to the disgusting amount people thought it would be at first). It's a barely negligible DPS change on something like the Shock Maul's Opportunist blessing compared to alternatives, and will mainly allow it to deal damage to Crushers, but with the caveat that the damage will be majorly delayed, requiring high stacks just to do 1/5th the damage it would ordinarily do. With Overpressure being tweaked to effect the DoT as well now, I'm curious to see what the DPS difference will actually be for the wider range of enemies. On paper, at least, it sounds like it's decently balanced. It would be an easy A or S Tier blessing if it was Brittleness and not Rending.
Tide Micromanagement at it's best Why didn't and should've could've would've. Rather ask fot a ballbuster difficulty if you're not having fun at the highest skill floors.
I think this video is a little too far in theory land. Speculating what direction devs may take doesn't really add much of substance. Rending is rarely worth taking for most weapons, and the flamer still cannot kill armored things, but now may be worth firing into a mixed mob. I don't think these buffs set a precedent for power creep. The flamer buffs make it useable as a support weapon, and at best, the plasma blessings are a side-grade, to focus on heavy charged shots instead of spamming light shots. Also, I feel like the "soft" stats are being left out of the discussion. Both the plasma and flamer have a draw time + "charge" time before they fire, so they both will never as quick to fire as the zarona or other weapons, giving teamates a chance to shoot before a plasma double-tap hits, and making the plasma and flamer require more careful positioning to safely use in comparison to other weapons. Both of these are also class-locked as well, so will be more uncommon to run into in random pug games in comparison to other "meta" weapons like the rashad or infantry autogun. Power creep may be an issue in other games, but I don't agree with the assessment in this video that these patch notes are indicative of power creep within darktide. Rather, it's fatshark doing good work giving these weapons a greater build variety and niches.
crying about plasma is insane, ye its fantastic in the hands of a well experienced vet but for actually normal people that aren't cracked at the game its a rewarding yet challenging weapon. sometimes you gotta think about what exists beyond the 500+ hours damnation meta build player
@@yaboirichard591 Yes and the Power Sword is for Bots. And the Warhammers are for bots. and the Revolver is for Bots... and the... It's just OP dude lul.
Did you ever look at how long your games last? Games with smite psykers are a slog, because the longer the game goes on the more stuff spawns, so when you compare actual DPS to a meta build it's laughable
Brainlets wanting to nerf plasma always annoy me wo much. It's literally only fun gun on Vet for me. They should make other guns better not nerf the Plasma.
@@vladimirvojtaml yeah if plasma is so op just bring up other weapons to it's lvl instead of just nerfing constantly. Ruins the fun and creates annoying metas that some members will criticize you for having the wrong weapon/build etc
"They should make other guns better not nerf the Plasma." Do you know how much you'd have to buff every other ranged weapon to make it as good as the unequivocal best gun in the game? Or, are you actually saying they shouldn't nerf the plasma gun because you need it as a crutch?
Honestly guys, if you thought this patch and weapons fix was going to be done right at this stage in the games dev cycle with everything that's come to pass so far.. Then I'll have to ask where you got what ever it is you've been smoking!? Coz I need some haha. No way this is bringing people away from Space Marine 2 unfortunately.
Helldivers got boring because weapons were initially designed or nerfed over time to not hit important breakpoints, you would fire 1/2/3 shots and the body part would have 5-10 health left, meaning you'd waste 90% of your next bullet's damage to get the job done. Then everybody started using flamethrower to just bruteforce through armor and that got nerfed instead of allowing weapons to kill stuff.
Darktide players think holding down the fire button on a flamer is boring and uninspired but love melee weapons that just have you spamming lights or heavies
one involves holding one button the other as you say involves combinations of two buttons. So yes and it makes perfect sense if you think about the difference of doing essentially nothing and doing something.
>Bell curve
>Look inside
>Rashad Combat Axe in "Balanced" section
Welcome to combat axes without Brutal M = meh, with Brutal M = god tier.
It is easily on par with combat blade. No weaknesses really.
Glad to know my veteran barbarian character is just going to get better
Disagree on flamer rending, it actually makes it more viable for teamplay now. You soften the armor of crushers etc for others to actually kill since youre not kiling them with 20% rending on a flamer, barely tickles, but is good team support
While you're right, the combination of the flamer buffs and the plasma blessing additions sets a precedence of power creep that I don't like. If fatshark never buffs the flamer weapons again after this I don't think it'll be that much of an issue, but considering they debatably buffed plasma with these new blessing when its already one of the strongest weapons in the game, it doesn't really bode well for weapons that are on the cusp of being too good.
@@jtcLIVE That's a terrible way to balance a game, please do not balance weapons against theoretical additional balance changes. Need to be vocal about how flamer should stay as is not that it shouldn't get changes that increase player interactivity. I know that we are treating fatshark like children, and I know its often justified, but we can't shit at them for good additions BEFORE they fuck up.
@@furner837I mean I do agree with you that it’s bad to balance based on theoreticals - That’s why I mentioned that the current changes are not an issue yet, but fatshark should be careful with any future changes.
that is fair, I can't help but feel like they missed the window with their game again like they did with vermintide 2, game turned out amazing... eventually it, kinda wish they went darkest dungeon/baldurs gate 3 route where they release modding support and let the modders add longevity through that way, I know it's not realistic at this point this is something you have to think about in advance at earlier stages (and no steam workshop does not count as mod support :D )
Like I'm going to engage armoured heavy hitters in your stream of sh...which prevents me from seeing clearly their animation state, and specials near by. Flame based weapons should have been never added to VT2 and DT in the first place.
Plasma gun power sword vet is a staple experience of turning my brain off going ez snorefest mode and if you take that from me I will cry.
Ay yo, you were mentioned and linked up in the Vermintide launcher, congrats
please god don't fuck with my Eviscerater.
@@Grimlust they demolished my plasma, it has a thin beam now and the shield stop it now, its not even worth using now
I have played about 3900 hours of this game and only play Damnation Hi-Shock or Maelstrom.
In my experience, Plasma and 2a Revolver are clearly overpowered and the pickup rate of other players is outstanding.
If they have one person on my team, fine, but if two or more people use these weapons, there is nothing to do and the game balance collapses. I even left a match halfway through because it was no fun.
At the very least, buffing the weapons that don't need to be nerfed but are underperforming is clearly a top priority
I have like 800 hours and i f*cking detest plasma. Revolver I can live with because AT LEAST you need to build for it. Plasma is just point it at the enemy, pull the trigger and win. PLasma is brainless and makes the rest of the team obsolete. It's infuriating when somebody obliterates like half a shotgunner patrol with 1 plasma shot. At that point my speedy grenadier Vet is just standing there doing sod all. The team would be better served if I was not there and they had a zealot/psyker for horde killing.
3900!!!!! Congrats! :)
I only have 1500 and my laptops keyboard is falling apart because of this game! I mean I'm happy I found it, last game that hooked me like this was the first Battlefield games.
I recently had to re-map the WASD-keys because of Darktide wearing them out and now I'm getting used to it again, sometimes slipping over to the old keys mid-combat.
Also you're right about those weapons, they're not exactly top priority to boost while some others are.
I dont think everything should be good in pve games as there will always be weapons that arent good. No reason they cant change plasma and especially because its getting a power blessing that could be better than blaze away. Also i really think theyre going to either stealth change things or theyre going to change things they arent mentioning. I will be shocked if the plasma gun gets a new power blessings and 3 other blessings but doesnt change in some way shape or form. Theyre putting in a blessing that makes it so you cant explode or something like that and right now thats of no concern so they definitely have changes in mind.
I play plasma but thats cuz its my favorite weapon and I hate bulwarks. I also love its a single shot weapon and that I can destroy bosses from across the room while someone else has aggro. I enjoy the revolver and the plasma gun because theyre single shot weapons and not because theyre op. I also love plasma because of just how much firepower you can put down range before you need to reload whereas the revolver gets 5 shots before you need to reload. Also idk how they balance the plasma gun because if you play psyker blowing up wont ever be of concern cuz you just vent for 5 seconds and youre back down to 50% anyway. Also considering people played plasma long before the weapon was good, people will still use the weapon even if it gets nerfed. My aim with the plasma gun and revolver are a hell of alot better than say my aim with a columnus and an accatran but its all personal preference at the end of the day really. That and the fact that im on console so my aims only gonna be so good anyway. Ive seen peoppe say they favor automatic weapons on console and single shots on pc but outside of the braced autogun im the opposite.
@@infrared6973 I gotta be honest with you... there are other ways to kill bulwarks than plasma. These ways also don't invalidate your entire team. A good plasma shot can annihilate half of a shotgunner pat on heresy and damnation. No other ranged weapon on vet can do that. None, nada, zero, zilch. It's just completely OP.
What was is also not a factor, it is good right now and it is possibly going to be stronger. Your subjective fun should not invalidate the fun of 3 other players in the lobby who did not pick the plasma up. I'm sorry, but that's just all there is to it...
Also, with plasma you don't need to aim ANYWHERE. Just go vaguely for centre of mass and you are OK. Revolver AT LEAST requires you to im at a weakspot to get the best out of it and does not overpenetrate half a shotty pat.
I look toward my psyker duelling sword being shocking. 😊
I imagine dueling Sword used with a Speed Zealot build. It'll be insane! :)
@@thunder2434 hello it is me from the future. not only is it insane, it is borderline broken
The downside of Purga is having the slowest time to kill any individual enemy (soulblaze ticks at half the rate of flame/bleed), and shortest range of any weapon (notably shorter than the zealot flamer). The upside is that a slow time to kill isn't so bad if you're slowly killing everything within range. I think it is probably the weapon that scales up the most with the density of nearby enemies. If there are only a few enemies, and your teammates are active, you won't have much impact as everything will die to melee/bullets before you have a chance to charge up and apply soulblaze. But when the team is overrun it starts to really shine. Your teammates will still get the killing blows on anything they're attacking, but anything that is being ignored is on a timer to die. If you are aggressive and run in front of the team to open on each new pack of enemies you will smash the others on the damage meters, but that is true of many weapons when played that way. If another player is also being aggressive and pushing hard, the faster time to kill of melee/bullets will generally out perform the Purga. So generally you only see the Purga seeming OP when the rest of the team aren't doing well, unlike the Plasma which will make the game boring even for good teammates because of its extremely quick time to kill.
The real elephant in the room, imo, that no one is talking about though is Purga getting Blaze Away. It is the first blessing available to Purga that gives a direct power buff. While it is likely only going to be active during the final parts of channeling out the secondary (depending on which version they implement, but safe to guess it will be the flamer variant that doesn't trigger from primary attacks or roll over between attacks), even just that will be a significant improvement to its time to kill. You shared a section from my post on the forum, so you know the rending blessing is going to most often be a 0% or 4% dmg buff. Blaze Away with its 40% power buff vs everything, even if only active intermittently, is going to have far more impact on the damage output. My guess is that if Purga becomes meta it will be with warp flurry or warp nexus paired with blaze away.
As for the new talents, the only one that I think is likely to really benefit the Purga is Empyric Shock, as a few puffs of primary fire after stacking up dots will give a fairly strong and long dmg boost to those ticking dots.
Other staves (but mostly void) running the new 10 second peril immunity sub node on Scryers Gaze are most likely to be the biggest winners from the new talents though, and the staff build I most expect to see being complained about once it is becomes established as a playstyle. If you lean into all of the CDR available in the Psyker tree, it is likely that you'll be able to maintain that peril immunity for as long as each fight lasts.
Yup, called it. Blaze away gives Purga a 40% power boost that if played right has constant 5 stacks.
I disagree on the flame weapons. As is they are okay at best and with the new blessings they’ll maybe be good at best. 20% rending is a drop in the bucket in damage calc.
Plasma gun may need a magsize decrease and a 2-3 elite cleave cap. But lore wise you can’t justify making it weak damage wise.
Agree with your take on the plasma, I've been calling for nerfs for this thing for almost a year at this point. I remember back then most people disagreed that it was imbalanced so its good to see the prevailing opinion within th community come around. Two of these with even mid aim is enough to invalidate the highest difficulty, it's not healthy. It doesn't even need that many changes, just more heat generated per uncharged fire and then a reduced ammo cost on the charged shot.
Your take on the flamer I do not agree with though. What invalidates melee more, all the pox walkers dying? or all the elites and specials dying? Because I sure as hell do not want to play swing at the poxwalkers simulater. Single target weapons are currently far far superior to the flame weapons and doing a lot more to negatively affect the melee play experience. Flamers should definitely never ever be over powered, but currently they're mid tier at best, and massively outclassed by other options. I feel like from your tone and wording there's some bias towards these weapons which you seem to acknowledge but I really do not think they're as bad as single target weapons. Even with the rending, their TTK on targets will still be slow they will now actually do something against armor.
Flamers are deceptively difficult weapons to balance in the tide genre because of the variations of health and spawn rates in the different difficulties - If you make them really good in the top difficulties, they become oppressive in the lower difficulties because of the reduced spawn rates, but if they're balanced in lower difficulties then they're typically considered subpar in higher difficulties.
Vermintide has that exact issue with their flamer weapons. Fatshark was never really able to find a sweet spot on how to make it good in all difficulties without shunning the experience in at least one difficulty. Right now their flamer on Sienna swung back to the overpowered realm and its really egregious in all difficulties, and I really don't want the same thing to happen here in Darktide.
I mentioned in the video how I don't think the rending will break either weapon (especially since fatshark clarified that rending will cap at 20% instead of 68ish%), but I was more trying to warn about what this path could eventually lead to rather than saying that this patch WILL lead to this end.
@@jtcLIVE that's a fair point, I would imagine they'll be fine when they get the rending buff as that helps to offset the loss of strength from the fury nerf with the other buff it had received.
Typically I would expect the game to be balanced around difficulty 4 as beneath that... it starts to not really matter what you run as the ability for one player to hard dominate with anything becomes a lot easier.
I wouldn't really care if they flame weapons were weak in damnation though, I think if you're playing the top difficulty then the idea is to have yourself challenged. Given the flamethrowers have no actual skill element to them they don't really match with what the top level is aiming for anyway.
I can't really comment on what changes the plasma needs since I don't have much playtime with it, but I agree that it's overturned right now.
I have a lot of hours with purgatus. Flamers, they are strong against hordes, but weak to being outranged, heavy enemies that can don't get staggered, and enemies that DoT effects take too long to deal with (especially crushers, muties, hounds, but really all specials and elites)
Since flamers are mechanically easy to use, people make the mistake of not knowing when to switch to melee to deal with higher threats.
"...20% rending isn't enough to make a difference in the grand scheme of things..." Especially considering since it takes time to accumulate those stacks for a very modest dmg buff. I don't think it's cause for alarm at the moment.
TLDR: Plasma is too strong, flamers not too strong.
JTC, thanks for your efforts on the video, and for creating a space for discussion
@@bradley6471 I totally agree that the game should be balanced with higher difficulties in mind (since that is the end goal of someone's journey), but its crucial to ensure that the lower difficulties are still fun to play for people who are new - Otherwise we won't have good new player retention, and the game's community will stagnate. Metas will inherently shift as you raise in difficulty (and its natural for them to do so), but its still important to make sure that the meta is not so far out of whack that it stops people from both playing AND enjoying the game.
I also am of the opinion that flamer should have an overall lower skill ceiling compared to other weapons to reward people who choose to take the time to become at things that require more time investment and skill to use well, but thats a topic for another video lol
The flamer is still incredible in this game, the problem is most zealots dont know how to properly utilize throwing knives and movement to deal with the ranged threats that you will inevitably encounter with the lack of range the flamer has. Also the flamer is incredible at melting bosses. The flamer is still a top tier weapon by anyone who knows how to use it. Also plenty people will say the flamer grenades replaced the flamer but thats not true cuz if you play with fire nades you cant take throwing knives and theyre busted in this game if you know how to use them well. Also rending makes bleed and fire dots even more potent in this game because of how all that works together. If youre playing with a vet who knows how to properly get value out of demo team and grenades you shouldnt have any issues melting armor in this game. Just think about what combat stims, an ogryn with bleed on heavy, shredder grenades, and a flamer can do to a map full of armored enemies.
Make the plasma gun explode when firing normal shots at 100% heat, this will make the gun less brainless to use and nerf any crit blessing synergy
Great work on the VO for the new update tutorial!
Fatshark trying to avoid Arrowhead's mistakes?
the difference there is most weapons in helldivers are not good, and then they nerfed the ones that were. Most weapons in darktide ARE good, and they're buffing the ones that are... It's a mirror flip of the helldivers situation, neither is good or healthy. The power creep has and will continue to rob the game of its difficulty.
Yep, looks like the Arrowhead situation scared them. But you can't buff forever, sometimes there have to be nerfs.
At the end of the day, people just want to have fun with the weapons they like. There's other ways to increase difficulty than strictly number manipulation.
Getting those Scryer's Gaze changes and the addition to psyker getting access to shotguns is PEAK. I am hyped af for the update.
Agree about the bell curve idea. Shotguns could use a dmg buff, or something which helps them rip thru multiple enemies better. Shotties couls probably use a bigger ammo pool too. Bolters just feel like they need more ammo, both in mag and in pool. Anyways, that's just my 2 cents for weapons I like to use. We'll see what happens in a week!
This is like the one game I play where I just bruteforce a build and it works. Ever since I got my hands in one, I never stopped using my Combat Axes (VIII i think?) and kinda just built my character around using it. Still need to learn how to properly block and push stuff but still. Depending on the team I'll go through a malice mission without downing simply because I've just gotten into the rhythm of proccing VOC to knock em down, blast them with both barrels of my shotgun and start whacking. This only applies to ragers, maulers and crushers. Everything else dies in like 2-3 hits, sometimes a strong attack does it in one. I wouldn't say it's overpowered because a horde can still take me out but if I have a zealot or ogryn on the team I'll usually just buddy up with them and act as support since VOC also just restores toughness back to full depending on how much you have depleted. Melee veteran is actually so much fun
It gets no buffs but my much loved mk13 Chainsword is a near god roll on stats already and just needs to max out one perk to be considered a god roll.
That'll matter less with the new patch but I still look forward to seeing and fulfilling what additional potential it has. Hopefully I can push it over the 80% limit on some stats.
Eh, imo a flamethrower is a melee build, so if another player is running something completely melee centric, thats less of a flamethrower issue and more of a team composition issue. The flame staff is the ranged option for psyker, so you have melee and more melee. Literally any option for any other class should have a job to do unless youre a zealot with a flame thrower.
5:40 i mean i dont completely agree with this logic because let's say the melee spec guy stopped playing melee and suddenly the party is overwhelmed by mini bosses back to back and the melee who was hanging back finally has a chance to shine. All builds have their niches and shouldn't be nerfed because they shine more during teamplay. Also from all the solo clear videos its usually a melee spec that i've seen, so let both be viable and both have their moments. Not every build needs 100% uptime for 100% dopamine rush, they have their moments and necessity when the situation calls for it, because as usual the tide games always throws in random spawns that will counter your build. Like lets say a flamer is suddenly surrounded by dogs and the only guy who's fending them off without getting pinned is the melee build who(has insane reflexes)didn't have much to do prior to the encounter. It is a team game and its a warhammer game, so the end goal is to complete the mission for the emperor. Nerfing builds is heresy.
overall i agree with your bell curve balance logic, but yeah things have their niches and the game devs are doing well with the changes compared to launch.
Weapons like flamer (which already got a strong buff last update) and purgatus getting these blessings will for sure cause major problems with the current environment of meta. Stacking on more powerful weapons to even more powerful weapons is like digging a grave further and further. At some point when they realize they have to nerf them, the grave will be too deep to revert these changes without significant backlash. Same goes for plasma
The plasma gun is definitely over picked and is strong enough to reason that. Wish that they’d either nerf it or make lesser used weapons more appealing. (also I really hope they make it easier to level ogryn’s new weapons and such given his won’t cross progress across classes :) as well as maybe buff him but I’ll take what I can get lol )
My buddy almost exclusively plays plasma vet and it’s so void of skill expression; he tanks through everything with toughness regen and 1 shots everything. So lame haha
I'm positive to the Patch Notes so far.
Granted, I'm not hard to please if they just take off the locks.
Although why they'd add rending to flamers or add more damage to Plasma and not give Thunderous to the MK13 chainsword is surprising. Won't it end up the only weapon not having an option for Brittle/ Thunderous then, in relative terms nerfing it? Because in the notes it got nothing. zip. just nothing. I mean sure, I like it a lot for my playstyle as a Zealot but it's a solid A-tier weapon, not an S-tier (or top extreme of the bell curve as you put it) while the plasma gun is up there on S already.
Lets see what they got though, maybe there's more to follow.
Psyker gonna be even more overpowered after this update lol
I'm happy that the duel swords will finally be able to be used by zealot
The issue with the Plasma is really just that it's dealing such an universally high damage against all armor modifiers paired with very easy handling and that it's not the U5 but several identically equipped Vets per team possible. Like high enough dmg to one-tap enough elites, low TTK against Crushers AND supercleave. Unlike other guns who deal a lot less damage against Maniac or Carapace armour type, for example. Suppression doesn't matter because you can't ADS anyway and it's drawn instantly. A single guy with a Plasma is no big deal either and will not win the team the whole game like a Vermintide OE or pre-rework SOTT does. At least nowadays the Vet at least has enough tools to make other ranged weapons very good against Carapace and stuff as well or get grenades against them.
Plasma imo doesn't need many changes to have a more logical inclusion in the overall balance. It should overall remain a death ray so it feels right but maybe just tweak the handling (weapon cooling?) and some dmg and cleave values against certain armour types and keep the quite bad ammo efficiency. I don't think the Plasma deserves a dmg nerf over the whole board. Same for the Revolver, it has just 5 shots and shouldn't end up in the same spot as the throwing axes from Vermintide. Ofc you should expect that FS wouldn't butcher the Revolver like that but then again, throwing axes from Vermintide. They sometimes really have fat fingers when it's about balance.
Btw what does melee even mean in this game anymore? When people on reddit began complaining about the Plasma as game killer, it has somehow not been an issue that shield Ogryn, Smite or Purgatus/Void/Trauma Psyker and like every Zealot loadout basically ignores melee threats. It's not as spectacular as popping heads with Plasma and Boltgun shots as long as everything is fine but arguably safer when everything goes south, without needing to bank on an ult. Since the beta a Purgatus Psyker has been a no-brainer loadout to have the back of the entire team and that hasn't ever changed. Only now they're complaining about Smite. If I want a more challenging melee gameplay, I basically need to play Vet only because it doesn't exist on other classes.
Personally I'm ok with plasma, just don't bring that "flamer with legs" zealot thing back and I'll be fine with FS.
i personally find the crusher to be too strong. It having such incredibly high unyielding finesse damage just doesnt feel right to me tbh. I used to only use that weapon for about 2 months some time back, until I realized it just made things too easy
They are probably overbuffing subtly to convince more players to come back and try the new itemization update.
But by subly, I mean with a giant hammer to my face.
I know this is a DT video, but my hot take is current OE is worse than old SOTT ever was. Old SOTT could only pull off what she could with her ult cd up and maybe a strength or purple pot.
OE with troll hammer and infinite bombs that have no ff and fire and explosive bombs effects means he can wipe hordes, monster/bosses and elites/patrols with absolute impunity in ways SOTT never did.
He routinely triple or even quadruples the damage of “dps” classes in legend/cata+ runs.
Not a hot take I think, the subreddit doesn't complain about anything else than OE at this point.
When they introduced Necro it became already apparent that FS had drawn inspiration from Darktide by the way how talents were set up for optimal use with certain weapons. Like there's that one class talent which is similar to old Brutal Momentum and obviously aimed at being used with the Scythe. Was a taste of fresh air but still struck me as quite odd.
For OE I already knew by reading the patch notes that the Vet's grenade regen talent is a bad idea and has no place in this game. Vermintide's bombs have a more drastic impact in the game's environment than Vet grenades in Darktide. The ones from VT are more clutch buttons than something meant to be used regularly. OE can even upgrade the bombs further. The problem is also that all the people who have been ass at playing OE before the rework, which was basically everyone except a few handful, still absolutely suck at it and fold the moment they can't spam bombs anymore.
@@acealinka489 Yeah, true. And they did a lot of cross borrowing from each others’ talents/skills. Necro’s new staff is basically brain burst, you already mentioned vet grenade as OE grenade, but Victor zealot mechanic was copy pasted to DT zealot even though DT doesn’t have thp. And vet shout is kinda like the IB or merc shout.
edit: also, the shield mechanic of letting you eat a free hit from enemies before taking damage is reminiscent of IB’s Gromril Armor ability.
@@acealinka489 Also, also, I think you’re spot on with vet bombs v OE bombs.
I think the more ranged fighting nature of DT makes it so that having an additional ranged damage option isn’t as game breaking in DT. Additionally, friendly fire is a real concern in VT2 and forces you to decide if it’s safe to throw if teammates are near, but if you spec into it (and it’s basically the best talent at 15 or whatever it is), it completely takes that split second tactical decision making out (ff has never been an issue in DT, of course). When you have such powerful options you can just poop out all the time in a more melee oriented game, it causes massive issues.
I never wanted any of the last balance patch changes at all. Nerfing GK and shade and BH bc boss killing classes killing bosses was... too much? In the meantime my stealth zealot or martyrdom zealot is one shotting /all/ monsters in auric missions... guess that may be changing, but whatever.
I didn’t want the OE or even javelin changes either. I used to pride myself on being pretty decent with OE in legend/cata+ games where I could come out with most kills, dmg, monster dmg, etc, but also with least dmg taken. But, people complained he was too weak (he wasn’t; you could often top the green circles if you were good enough against good players) so he got buffed to stupid OP levels to where he just poops out damage. And the people who sucked with him before all of a sudden think they are good with him... even though their skill levels didn’t change, just the class.
I feel like plasma would be a lot better if there was no auto vent on right click spam, and only fully charged shots had massive cleave.
I’m just mildly nervous that if the devs keep hearing a part of their active player base complain about weapons being too strong they’ll just go down the line of helldivers and end up nerfing everything which probably would kill all of my desire to play the game
I doubt it; They have strong testers behind the scenes that will push back hard against that if that starts to happen.
@@jtcLIVE I don’t know jtc, I didn’t like /any/ of changes in the last major balance patch in VT2 to the point I stopped playing it for 6 months and changed my 2 year old review of it from thumbs up to thumbs down after nearly 9k hrs of playtime (yes, I said nearly 9k... actually as of this post I may be over 9k now) and I won’t change it back until they revert some or all of the changes which I don’t foresee at all.
Now, I get that DT technically had a different team working on theirs (though I think there was some cross teaming leading up to the release?), but while I’ve loved the core games of VT2 and DT, FS continues to frustrate me with their decisions. Which is fine for something like DT where they’re hopefully still on an upswing, but it’s frightening for my love of VT2 where they should be just adding light little touches to fine tune things instead of wildly swinging for the fences like they did with OE or making inexplicable decisions for GK, Shade, BH... and closer to its end cycle than DT, I’m afraid they won’t revert those changes (they modified the shade change).
@@Vulcanerd vermintide hasn’t had community testers since late 2022, so we had no input on anything past then (whereas we do have an input for DT)
@@jtcLIVE That explains VT2 and makes DT more promising. That said, I still do like VT2 better bc it’s has 7(?) years of polish and I just like the environment/maps better. Some of the more recent DT maps have a little more variety, but ultimately we are in a Hive City which all look like the same decrepit, decaying mega city-scape.
I’ve loved the Treachery maps a ton and the final fights and even though Karak Azgaraz maps are recreations of VT1 maps, I think they’re still great.
Also, I just like the play cycle of VT2 better. When I finish a map, my group doesn’t auto-disband, we just go right back into another map. In DT, has the hour flipped and do I need to go check in with the vendor to see if they have any good base weapons worthy of upgrading? What does Melk have for me today? Have I saved enough to play Brunt’s rng lotto? I get some of these may be getting overhauled, but it’s been 2 years of having to interrupt actual gaming for some meta gaming bs (not meta in the sense of builds and weapons, of course).
In VT2, I get rewarded for playing the game with chests I can save and open on any of my characters. Yeah, there is a grind, but I play, I’m rewarded. In DT, I have to run around and do these other tedious things in hopes I may get rewarded. If I get in a good group, I can crank out 3 maps in an hour, 4 if we are fast and get something like Screaming Bell. In DT, I’ll get one map, maybe two, but then the group auto-disbands and I’m dinking around with the vendor or Brunt’s or Melk’s or hoping to find a match which may not happen even if I am queuing up for qp.
The hamster wheel grind is so much worse than VT2.
I was so happy Boltgun and Bolt Pistol get the much needed buffs, the added cleave so they act as they should is excellent. On the other hand, they further bumped up the cleave on the Revolvers-- that defeats the purpose of helping stop the metachuds from saying "the revolver is better"
They only increased the cleave on the Agripinaa Revolver, which couldn't even cleave poxwalkers consistently.
@@justind5098 Whew! That is actually more ok.
Right, the Zarona's cleave couldn't actually be buffed more even if they wanted to, I don't think. It's pretty much at the cap of only being stopped by ogryns and monstrosities. The Agripinaa needed that buff. You don't really see the hammer-fan in high tier anymore.
@@justind5098 I stand corrected, thank you
Have to disagree with the flamer point, or atleast the purgatus staff since i dont play zealot but i have played a lot of the purgatus staff psyker (its my main build i use when i don't know what to bring or don't want some gimmicky build with scriers gaze or such), now the weapon has always been a solid choice and i love it but ngl the new blessing seems really... meh to me, it makes the weapon more support build that lets your teammates kill armored enemies faster but that weapon was NEVER meant to deal with crushers or any armored enemy, now is it a bad blessing? i wouldn't say so but with purgatus staff there already is way WAY better blessings like warp flurry, warp nexus and/or terrifying barrage, it can still be used but will the new blessing make the staff meta? not even close cuz youre trying to force a weapon to be something that its not, its meant to kill hordes and support your group by keeping non-elite enemies away from your team, giving it the rending makes it worse against that for some support buff to kill crushers faster but for that you would way rather have some other weapon
i can see what you mean with the point, not wanting a weapon to become new meta, but i wouldn't even consider that blessing a buff for the weapon, its simply more choices but i highly doubt the weapons usage gonna change because of this blessing, i share with you the worry that they just gonna overbuff everything and the game becomes boring cuz simply everything is too good against the enemies we have now, but atleast on the purgatus point i don't see it becoming any better
(note that i actually don't fully know how the rending will work with the dot, i never fully understood how rending works, so if the burning rending actually isn't like a debuff that increases all damage to it then its actually even worse)
So excited for this patch
Love all the buffs!
Flamer go rawr
they make me worried
Its a pve game i dont think balance really matters unless its a helldiver 2 kind of situation and like you cant spend real money to get weapons or blessings or whatever to do with gameplay so i must ask who cares?
the goldy locks rule!
Congrats on 10k JTC! 🥳
I actually disagree with plasma gun being OP... but it is right on the edge, the thing that holds it in check is the heat mechanic. Yes you can do a fuckload of single target damage but you can only do that a few times before you need to vent, so when you're dealing with a boss or simply a high volume of non-trash enemies you can easily get overwhelmed. Plasma can also struggle somewhat vs crushers. I do agree however that it does not need more buffs before blessings, and I could jive with a slight increase in how fast it heats up. Just dont nerf the burst damage or high cleave, as it is those two things together that make this weapon stand out.
As for the flame weapons, they dont need rending, what they need is thier stagger back, at least to a degree. They are crowed control weapons and thuis plays into that, but without making them kill stuff fasters, instead stagger sets up enemies for your melee classes to kill.
the heat mechanic is not a drawback it is a strength. I don't think you're looking at this weapon correctly. You never have to actually reload the thing in combat and the vent is what replaces it's reload, notably what makes it a benefit is that it allows you to partial reload where other weapons have to commit to longer periods of sustained down time. Every time you dodge, scan for a new target, do anything that is not shooting... you're partially reloading. This leads to the weapon itself having an insane up time.
Dealing damage to bosses or weak enemies is irrelevant, because those enemy types do nothing. The enemies that do matter are elites and specials, all of which outside of the mutant and the mauler can be killed in a single uncharged attack. You get 8 attacks before needing to vent, vent partial reloads 2 and each of those is a one shot.
That much ^^ is undisputed, my own controversial take however is that you should never ever use this for bosses or crushers anyway as it's a waste of ammo. If you just take kraks and a good melee weapon you will literally never run out of ammo, while having the fastest sustained ttk on elites across the game. It should keep its damage and cleave, but it should generate more heat on uncharged attacks as 8 is ridiculous.
Think of it this way, it has the same breakpoints as the zarona outside of bosses and crushers. Except it has 8 shots to the zaronas 5, and can partial reload 2 shots at a time compared to it's 1. zarona is already an S tier weapon.
Yes, the enemy flamers stagger us back, so then our flamer should do the same.
@@bradley6471 "never have to reload the thing in combat" speak for yourself, clearly your lmb doesn't receive enough love
@@TheRealSykx Why click lmb more than is necessary, one click one kill. You'd have to miss a significant number of shots before having to reload mid combat, at that point just take a fraction of a second longer to aim and save yourself the ammo and time in the long run ;p
My big complaint on the plasma gun and voidstrike isn't necessarily their damage, but their cleave. The ammo sustain on the plasma gun with the regen aura is also still too good imo.
Kinda skipping the absolutely disgusting new blessings the dueling sword is getting along with its new availability, it's going to be a super meta.
Lookin forward to your next video
I saw the left side of the new psyker tree and thought to myself, "Welp, we're stuck with the B-team now." Clearly designed by people who do not play the game. Where the right was the complete opposite, someone really wants Scrizer's Gaze to be meta at all levels of play.
I really want Ogryn to be stronger tbh. Or giving ogryns a talent TLC update. Why does psyker always get the TLC patches?
Agreed, psyker is one of the most enjoyable classes to play, don't see why it needs changed to the talent tree. The Ogre needs a good overhaul though, tweak some talents and give it some proper weapons!
Further explaining on the ogryn/psyker gap, I think closing this balance gap by bringing ogryn up would bring the two more in line with how they are supposed to be somewhat versatile but still specialist classes.
It seems kinda weird in terms of design that the ogryn is sorta gimped in terms of overall combat capabilities.
Despite having the biggest firepower in terms of guns (except for bolters and plasma guns) of the 4 classes, and being the biggest and tankiest.
Lots of ogryn weapons feel like toy guns hitting like a wet noodle, compared to a specialized vet or psyker or zealot.
Using the crowd control as an example, Crowd control for ogryn should be an option to spec into imo, not the default for every ogryn.
There should be more options to specialize in our talent role as ogryn, as it is impossible to customize much further than being one of the 3 main roles the talent tree wants you to be. (tank/bulwark, heavy melee attacks, gunlugger)
I'm gonna be honest, there's just seems like a non-issue.
maybe for most players, but those in the top 10% of skill that want to actually enjoy a challenging game? what about them? There shouldnt be any weapon in the game that invalidates the top difficulty.
@Yes-qh9hv non-constructive and pretty dismissive comment. Why even bother, other than to provoke a reaction?
They're technically not an issue at the moment, but its important to highlight when they would be an issue and why.
@@be.a.7462the thing about the plasma gun is although its a very good weapon there are times where you have like 40 things on your screen and because youre using a single shot weapon you just cant focus on them all at once. Also the plasma gun makes you slow and it has a very slow reload. Im not saying its not an amazing weapon but its also not an automatic weapon either. The gun is amazing when everything is in a straight line right infront of you down a hallway but the moment im in a massive area with shooters everywhere i often wish I had my braced autogun.
@@infrared6973 You wish you had a BAG for precise shots on spread out ranged enemies? I'm not sure how that's better than just clicking the general vicinity of enemies with uncharged plasma shots, considering it swaps as fast, doesn't suffer from suppression and is arguably more ammo efficient at range.
Disagree on nerfing weapons - just buff those lacking
@@r4plez nerfs just upset players. Its underatandable when something is clearly overpowered or broken but in general buffs are the way to go. Or at least when you nerf things you have to take into account its balance with other weapons.
Unless it's genuinely gamebreaking then yeah honestly just make everything as OP as the meta weapon.
@@madmammoth9022 its ok for certain skill based actions to be extra op, but the degree it is at now is extreme, where most weapons a few thousand damage but combat knife can stack attacks that deal over 30k damage each.
I Disagree with most everything in this video have a good day
I've seen plasma gun like once in my last 30 or so missions, if something is really strong but unfun and thus less popular to play with as a result, that is also good balance in a way.
Plasma gun needs to have its old venting mechanics back, and the infinite cleave needs to be removed.
Make plasma explode on lmb at 100% and it will be "balanced" imo ... it will go from a strong faceroll weapon to a strong but dangerous weapon, closer to its flavor.
Who is using the plasma gun at 100 anyway? If you hit 100 you vent for 4 seconds and atart shooting again just like you do when youre managing peril. It wouldnt be difficult to never explode playing plasma because I never shoot past like 90% anyway.
@@infrared6973 higher heat = more crit chance with "gets hot" so i guess you want to crit less?
@@TheRealSykx i wasnt thinking it would Probably replace blaze away since thats power as well
bolt weapons need even more of a buff, still didnt touch the damage or other issues
I for one welcome the flamer changes. But I think slower melee weapons need buffs because it seems the speedy weapons are just plain better
Most of the weapon and balance changes seem fine but ogryns desperately need more weapon options, Ogryn has been in a Sienna style problem for a long time now of just not having nearly as many options as the rest and making them not nearly as replayable
Also they’re doing another patch where zealot gets to remain completely busted lol (I’m a zealot main and they’re just better than everyone else by a lot)
Yeah there are people out there who can play ogryn well but i hate how semi automatic everything ogryn has is. I understand its all accurate to the lore or whatever but shooters and gunners just destroy my ogryn all the time and its so annoying. I get that alot of thats a skill issue at the end of the day but there are far too many times when there are no melee enemies around and gunners and shooters everywhere and all you have is a kickback or some other semi automatic weapon that cant deal with what you need to in a timely fashion and its rather annoying to play around. Yeah sure ogryn has stubbers but the MK IV is unwieldly slow and takes a thousand years to reload. I dont like the achlys outside of pbb because it just doesnt feel good to me. I love the stagger on the MK IV stubber but when you compare how unwieldly and slow and semi automatic everything ogryn has it really makes sense why so few people play the class. If you play ogryn he kind of seems like a war of attrition type character in the sense that sometimes youre just like well thats too many shooters and gunners so i guess im going down here, whereas other characters have different means to deal with things. Ogryn is just like well I have this rock I can throw one at a time at things.also I hate how you have to constantly reload everything on ogryn all the time and the gameplay loop of ogryn is just kinda weird to deal with. I also hate how ammo starved I feel when I play anything thats not a kickback ogryn.
@@infrared6973 I play Ogryn often and genuinely believe skills wise he is the second best class behind zealot, but all the weapons are almost the exact same and there just aren’t any weapon build varieties unfortunately
@@rumbling9879 i really wish ogryn had more automatic weapons somehow because almost everything ogryn has is semi automatic. Also i understand MK V ripper is meta but im on xbox and cant control the recoil past 10 meters to save my freaking life and i always feel like im wasting more ammo than i am killing efficient. Like if theirs gunners like 40 meters away or something unless I have rocks sometimes i feel like i dont even know what to do if im playing ripper gun cuz it kicks so crazy i know im not gonna kill them. I should probably just go back to playing stubber but last time I played stubber people were killing things so fast i felt like i barely used my range weapon all game it was a weird run.
I'm a Zealot main too and my opinion is that Psyker class used by a skilled player is more powerful. I played a game of Hi intensity Damnation with 3 psykers who knew their sh*t recently and I mostly just stood guard and watched them electrify and burn everything. They'd leave me some token enemies sometimes to cut down but the Hordes and even monstrosities just melted before them.
I Zealot because I enjoy it the most, because I like the hands-on approach, not because it's meta. But yeah, it's not a bad class by any means.
@@thunder2434 Psyker is very squishy but highest reward which is great but zealot just does as well with way less effort needed
They need to nerf the combat knives, they are SO overtuned and now with the thunder hammer changes, the knife is STILL the best weapon in the game especially for killing bosses.
The combat knife in the right hands is super-deadly, I agree. But for most players (From my experience, I pretty much play only Darktide after work daily, since beta) average players get downed with the combat knife, just as much as any other melee weapon. If Fatshark DID nerf it, I don't want a lazy 'Zenyatta nerf' that clobbers the weapon into oblivion, just because a small minority of players are monsters with it.
Yeah, I’m inclined to agree. Just bc the best of the best make it a monster weapon doesn’t mean the rest of the 99% of the other players can get that level of juice out of it.
Most players running combat knife isn't getting it to perform to that level though. It takes a specific optimized crit build and playstyle as well as skill. That's when it shines. With only a combat knife and no build for it the performance is about average or even below some other weapons.
The knives are damn near useless without skill and the blessing, and the blessings are often what makes them a fun weapon to wield. Skill is still honestly the biggest determinant of someone being a monster at the game.
I disagree. I think your reasoning is sound, your argument is adequate, but you are over-valuing the impact this will have by an order of magnitude. Plasma being OP, is fine. Purgatus .... is fine. The value of avoiding power creep, over-rated. The loss of immersion from changes to weapons, exaggerated. We are going to see a massive quantity of data from the unlock. That data will inform future balance changes that are dedicated to balance. This is more than good enough.
Annoyingly well-spoken and respectful criticism. Am I on the internet?
I might be and I hope I am, because then this patch would be great otherwise - Although I disagree that Plasma being OP is fine.
As for flamethrowers, it would be more realistic if it was weak against dregs. Nurgle worshipers are unlikely to be easily flammable due to all that mucus and other bodily fluids. However, scabs should burn better because the fuel would stick to the armor, which is how it works in real life. Helldivers 2 has such nerf problems
I agree that the plasma gun is overpowered but i disagree that it needs to be nerfed. Currently it fills a niche that it needs too which is one of the best ways to consistently clear hordes of heavy armor. It doesnt feel great getting crusher spammed out of a game because no one in the party can deal with that amount of armor fast enough.
Disagree both.
I move from Vet to zelot. If plasma is nerfed im just using zealot
Agree. Most of all about Plasma. Plasma is simply not fun to play alongside and gets boring to use quickly for anyone even halfway acquainted with high tier difficulty. I think it's unhealthy for the game to have any weapon that drives people to leave matches. A while back it was pre-nerf, pre-class rework Flamer. Before Darktide, it was pre-nerf Javelin and Moonbow. These games have lost nothing from reeling back the spectacularly overpowered things into the healthier places they are now. All those old favorites still have their places. Plasma can be like that, too.
As for the Flamer rending blessing, I don't think it will amount to much anymore, thankfully. 20% Rending is not that much (compared to the disgusting amount people thought it would be at first). It's a barely negligible DPS change on something like the Shock Maul's Opportunist blessing compared to alternatives, and will mainly allow it to deal damage to Crushers, but with the caveat that the damage will be majorly delayed, requiring high stacks just to do 1/5th the damage it would ordinarily do. With Overpressure being tweaked to effect the DoT as well now, I'm curious to see what the DPS difference will actually be for the wider range of enemies. On paper, at least, it sounds like it's decently balanced. It would be an easy A or S Tier blessing if it was Brittleness and not Rending.
As long there's no useless weapons or weapons too similar will be ok for me
I love Lucius lasgun and I will play it for another 500hours for sure
Tide Micromanagement at it's best
Why didn't and should've could've would've.
Rather ask fot a ballbuster difficulty if you're not having fun at the highest skill floors.
6:50 flamethrower one of the best weapons in the game? Is that an uncommon belief or something cause I think it’s good but not that good
I think this video is a little too far in theory land. Speculating what direction devs may take doesn't really add much of substance. Rending is rarely worth taking for most weapons, and the flamer still cannot kill armored things, but now may be worth firing into a mixed mob. I don't think these buffs set a precedent for power creep. The flamer buffs make it useable as a support weapon, and at best, the plasma blessings are a side-grade, to focus on heavy charged shots instead of spamming light shots.
Also, I feel like the "soft" stats are being left out of the discussion. Both the plasma and flamer have a draw time + "charge" time before they fire, so they both will never as quick to fire as the zarona or other weapons, giving teamates a chance to shoot before a plasma double-tap hits, and making the plasma and flamer require more careful positioning to safely use in comparison to other weapons. Both of these are also class-locked as well, so will be more uncommon to run into in random pug games in comparison to other "meta" weapons like the rashad or infantry autogun.
Power creep may be an issue in other games, but I don't agree with the assessment in this video that these patch notes are indicative of power creep within darktide. Rather, it's fatshark doing good work giving these weapons a greater build variety and niches.
Buffs will not matter. Players still find a way to struggle in auric no matter their build.
crying about plasma is insane,
ye its fantastic in the hands of a well experienced vet but for actually normal people that aren't cracked at the game its a rewarding yet challenging weapon. sometimes you gotta think about what exists beyond the 500+ hours damnation meta build player
I think that weapons should all be as OP as possible but the enemies should spawn in higher numbers and take longer to kill
Play dwons in vermintide then
I got 678,000 Ranged Damage and 17k Stuns with my Smite Build yesterday.
It's OP.
How is Smite not OP but Plasma is? LOL
It is op. The player experience is just subjective. And the video is an opinion piece
Smite is for people that can’t keep up in higher difficulty lobbies. Smite is for bots
@@yaboirichard591 Yes and the Power Sword is for Bots.
And the Warhammers are for bots.
and the Revolver is for Bots...
and the...
It's just OP dude lul.
Did you ever look at how long your games last? Games with smite psykers are a slog, because the longer the game goes on the more stuff spawns, so when you compare actual DPS to a meta build it's laughable
Your 10 thousanth sub is here
Brainlets wanting to nerf plasma always annoy me wo much. It's literally only fun gun on Vet for me. They should make other guns better not nerf the Plasma.
@@vladimirvojtaml yeah if plasma is so op just bring up other weapons to it's lvl instead of just nerfing constantly. Ruins the fun and creates annoying metas that some members will criticize you for having the wrong weapon/build etc
"They should make other guns better not nerf the Plasma."
Do you know how much you'd have to buff every other ranged weapon to make it as good as the unequivocal best gun in the game? Or, are you actually saying they shouldn't nerf the plasma gun because you need it as a crutch?
Buff everything, and stop crying.
Honestly guys, if you thought this patch and weapons fix was going to be done right at this stage in the games dev cycle with everything that's come to pass so far.. Then I'll have to ask where you got what ever it is you've been smoking!? Coz I need some haha. No way this is bringing people away from Space Marine 2 unfortunately.
This is the same thinking that made helldivers 2 boring af.
Helldivers got boring because weapons were initially designed or nerfed over time to not hit important breakpoints, you would fire 1/2/3 shots and the body part would have 5-10 health left, meaning you'd waste 90% of your next bullet's damage to get the job done.
Then everybody started using flamethrower to just bruteforce through armor and that got nerfed instead of allowing weapons to kill stuff.
Darktide players think holding down the fire button on a flamer is boring and uninspired but love melee weapons that just have you spamming lights or heavies
difference is one is engaging one is not one takes thought to a certain extent one does not
one involves holding one button the other as you say involves combinations of two buttons. So yes and it makes perfect sense if you think about the difference of doing essentially nothing and doing something.
@@notwhatitwasbefore How have both of you completely missed the point? 😭
Emperor guide these poor souls
1:25 oh so space marine 2 then?