I really must get to this museum as soon as possible. One can never be sure about the longevity of vehicle collections these days. Thanks for the video, I never knew about the aluminium prototypes.
The former Bertone collection has been declared an item of national interest, which means it can’t be parted out nor exported. It’s not going anywhere, anytime soon :)
@@Matteo_Licata I hope it doesn't end up in one of the new breed of "modern" museums where half the available space is dedicated to interactive displays for school children! And then you have to pay twice to see the rest of the collection in the "vault tour". A big warehouse or aircraft hanger will do just fine! 👍
I dont know from where you get your ideas for video themes but keep them coming. I never knew that! Mille grazie! I hope I got it right this time. See? Told you I needed Italian lessons :-))
I don’t have a process to come up with ideas, and I’ve often found myself lacking the right idea until the last minute… Then it magically pops! Glad you enjoyed the video, and yes, Grazie mille is correct :)
Up until the early 2000s there was an Alcan plant about 15 miles from where I live here in Scotland. I would have liked nothing better than for them to have been able to churn out aluminium X1/9's, Strada Abarths, and every Alfa Romeo of the time without exception. Regular, Fiat models also. Im not totally sure what they actually produced down there but the raw materials ran off onto the main roads and turned them pinky red, which looked great in the glow of headlights at night. Thanks for another great episode.
Sure Italian cars would have a better reputation, had they been all made out of aluminium! It took a while for our manufacturers to take rust protection seriously, possibly because they were too focused on the home market.
It interesting to note that Alfa made an aluminum bodied GT so they could achieve a weight savings for racing. It could be done, perhaps Alcan was trying to get Bertone to make a special run of aluminum bodied X1/9's. Interesting video. I had no idea that these were made. You deserve far more likes than I'm seeing. I think Americans thought of the X1/9 as toy or throw away cars. Not the brilliantly engineered little jewels that they were.
Thank you! I don't know if Alcan hoped for Bertone to turn the aluminium X1/9 into a production reality. My hunch is that Bertone and the X1/9, being small and with a low-volume product, made the ideal "guinea pigs" for what Alcan was trying to prove.
I worked with an OEM where we had some issues with aluminium bonnet and rear hood splitting at design stage. We used CAE analysis to design it out, but aluminium also needed to be shipped in temperature controlled containers from Japan. Bel video Matteo. X1-9 videos are one of my favourites. Could you do a video on some automotive stories from Sud Italia?
Fascinating. Thanks Matteo. I realise you concentrate on cars that interest you, but it triggered a few thoughts... The stainless steel Porsche 911 (there's one of the two in the Deutsches Museum collection in Munich) The aluminium bodied BMW 3 series, a racing homologation special from what I remember as the early 90s. I'm sure there are many other low volume specials like this.
The stock steel X19 was was weak in the rear frame also, so that weakness they found was more of a design flaw. Just to look at it you could see there was little to no triangulation or bracing in the entire rear. Not the aluminum at fault there.
I never knew of those aluminum body vehicles. Very interesting, thanks for posting! Ah yes, fuel leakage in a crash in the days of steel fuel tanks. Normally no problem today (in Europe).
I recall when Alfa Romeo 164s were exported to the USA the plastic European fuel tank had to be replaced with a steel one. Those were the regulations, but the logic of such a requirement was lost on me.
@@timhancock6626 Ah, I didn't know that about the 164 fuel tank. Thanks for the info! Really strange, probably just a mens of complicating imports. But it took many years for US auto manufacturers to accept the many advantages of HDPE fuel tanks. The only advantage steel tanks had were a simpler means of reducing hydrocarbon emissions (permeation). But multilayer HDPE ist very effective. I'm American, now retired, living in Germany. I spent roughly 20 years in the fuel tank industry and was always amazed at the generally primitive (and more dangerous) fuel tank designs of US cars. Things are changing in this regard, but slooooowly.
There is more to the story. Two aluminum X1/9s were turned over to American car magazines for evaluation and a story. Taken to a race track, one of the journalists crashed one of the prototypes, comprehensively damaging it. The team from the factory quickly called in the other car, loaded them both on their truck and left.( I owned 4 X1/9s over the years and I always said "If only they had made them out of aluminum.")
Thank you for letting me know, as I hadn’t heard about this incident! Yes, I guess many X1/9 owners would have greatly appreciated the aluminum’s resistance to corrosion…
1) Although it doesn't "rust" aluminum does corrode, espically if touching other metals (galvanic reaction, noticed in early Land Rovers when first imported to the USA where winter roads are salted, a practice not done in GB). 2) In the video it was mentioned that they used the same tooling.
I’ve been aware of the aluminum X1/9s for a long time, but it’s only recently that I bought it to use as a reference for a magazine article. You can get it from the SAE website: www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/890718/
Oh, what could’ve been! Imagine an aluminium-bodied X1/9, re-engineered to compensate for the reduced strength of that metal, and given even a modest twin-cam engine. It would’ve been an absolute giant-killer of a car, capable of high speeds with impeccable handling. Another lost opportunity for Fiat.
@@johndavidwolf4239 Aluminium structures are usually made far stronger than an equivalent steel one in order to gain acceptable fatigue life. Bicycle frames are an example - aluminium frames are FAR stiffer than steel ones, and yet still fail at an early stage, which makes them too stiff to ride nicely. For a car structure to survive if made in aluminium, it needs to be similarly stronger, by design. However, it is stated in the script that the alloy bodied X1/9 performed adequately on the Belgian pave at MIRA.
@@Matteo_Licata there are a few guys who make fibreglass Dallara kits for these x19 in Italy I've seen. So atleast if needed one day i can get and ship it to me here in South Africa. Grazia Mille for a nice video again 👍🏻👍🏻 ciao
I had one of these cars. It handled quite nicely on dry pavement. When it was wet or raining it would hydroplane right off the road. When you braked hard it would just slide. Slid mine right under the back of a Ford pick up truck. Dangerous!!!! It looked good sitting in the drive way though.
@@johndavidwolf4239 maybe but they had excellent tread but as the motor is behind the seats, there is very little weight to the front end. Wet asphalt with a little oiliness to it is like a skating rink. On the interstate at 50 to 60 mph it wanted to hydroplane right off the road.
The weight of a steel X1/9 body-in-white (unpainted shell) is 197 Kg, not 179 Kg as I’ve mistakenly indicated in the video. Sorry!
Very beautiful car, even today. Congratulations Mr. Bertone !!!
I really must get to this museum as soon as possible. One can never be sure about the longevity of vehicle collections these days. Thanks for the video, I never knew about the aluminium prototypes.
The former Bertone collection has been declared an item of national interest, which means it can’t be parted out nor exported. It’s not going anywhere, anytime soon :)
@@Matteo_Licata I hope it doesn't end up in one of the new breed of "modern" museums where half the available space is dedicated to interactive displays for school children! And then you have to pay twice to see the rest of the collection in the "vault tour". A big warehouse or aircraft hanger will do just fine! 👍
I dont know from where you get your ideas for video themes but keep them coming. I never knew that! Mille grazie! I hope I got it right this time. See? Told you I needed Italian lessons :-))
I don’t have a process to come up with ideas, and I’ve often found myself lacking the right idea until the last minute… Then it magically pops! Glad you enjoyed the video, and yes, Grazie mille is correct :)
@@Matteo_Licata One small step......:-))
Interesting story about the X1/9. Good tribute for the 50th anniversary, thanks
Thank you!
I had no idea they had done this exercise. Amazing really !
Up until the early 2000s there was an Alcan plant about 15 miles from where I live here in Scotland.
I would have liked nothing better than for them to have been able to churn out aluminium X1/9's, Strada Abarths, and every Alfa Romeo of the time without exception. Regular, Fiat models also. Im not totally sure what they actually produced down there but the raw materials ran off onto the main roads and turned them pinky red, which looked great in the glow of headlights at night.
Thanks for another great episode.
Sure Italian cars would have a better reputation, had they been all made out of aluminium! It took a while for our manufacturers to take rust protection seriously, possibly because they were too focused on the home market.
It interesting to note that Alfa made an aluminum bodied GT so they could achieve a weight savings for racing. It could be done, perhaps Alcan was trying to get Bertone to make a special run of aluminum bodied X1/9's. Interesting video. I had no idea that these were made. You deserve far more likes than I'm seeing. I think Americans thought of the X1/9 as toy or throw away cars. Not the brilliantly engineered little jewels that they were.
Thank you! I don't know if Alcan hoped for Bertone to turn the aluminium X1/9 into a production reality. My hunch is that Bertone and the X1/9, being small and with a low-volume product, made the ideal "guinea pigs" for what Alcan was trying to prove.
I worked with an OEM where we had some issues with aluminium bonnet and rear hood splitting at design stage. We used CAE analysis to design it out, but aluminium also needed to be shipped in temperature controlled containers from Japan. Bel video Matteo. X1-9 videos are one of my favourites. Could you do a video on some automotive stories from Sud Italia?
What an interesting detail to the x19 story , never knew they considered Aluminium.
Thank you, Matteo. Great, as always. Please go on with such interesting Storys, it´s a pleasure for us
I sure will, thank you!
Fascinating. Thanks Matteo.
I realise you concentrate on cars that interest you, but it triggered a few thoughts...
The stainless steel Porsche 911 (there's one of the two in the Deutsches Museum collection in Munich)
The aluminium bodied BMW 3 series, a racing homologation special from what I remember as the early 90s.
I'm sure there are many other low volume specials like this.
Never heard this before, very interesting!
Fascinating, thank you 👍
My first car was a X-19,got it used back in 87. What a fun car! I had the silver and black two tone, fun times.
Excellent ! Didn't know that this test was done. Bravo et grazie!
Glad you enjoyed it, thank you!
Amazing stuff, I had no idea they built these aluminum cars, I had one in the 80s and I still love them, super little baby Ferraris🇮🇹👍
Well done as usual. Beauty of a car
Interesting. Rode in a Fiat 850 Spyder years ago. It was quite an experience. Viva Alfa Romeo.
Great history lesson!
Thank you!
The stock steel X19 was was weak in the rear frame also, so that weakness they found was more of a design flaw. Just to look at it you could see there was little to no triangulation or bracing in the entire rear. Not the aluminum at fault there.
Well done again
Thank you!
Thanks Great History of this Handsome car, unaware of this experiment with Aluminum 👍
I never knew of those aluminum body vehicles. Very interesting, thanks for posting!
Ah yes, fuel leakage in a crash in the days of steel fuel tanks. Normally no problem today (in Europe).
I recall when Alfa Romeo 164s were exported to the USA the plastic European fuel tank had to be replaced with a steel one. Those were the regulations, but the logic of such a requirement was lost on me.
@@timhancock6626 Ah, I didn't know that about the 164 fuel tank. Thanks for the info! Really strange, probably just a mens of complicating imports. But it took many years for US auto manufacturers to accept the many advantages of HDPE fuel tanks. The only advantage steel tanks had were a simpler means of reducing hydrocarbon emissions (permeation). But multilayer HDPE ist very effective.
I'm American, now retired, living in Germany. I spent roughly 20 years in the fuel tank industry and was always amazed at the generally primitive (and more dangerous) fuel tank designs of US cars. Things are changing in this regard, but slooooowly.
Is the Black Aluminium X1/9 which was displayed at the NEC still in the UK
I don’t know, and I’d really like to see whether other survivors still exist
Can't even imagine how fast my X19 would be with my Rotary 13b in it🤩 300hp of fun
Wow, that will be a rocketship! 👍
Considerably slower than Manuel Dondi's I should imagine!
(650kg ballasted, 380 whp, X-Trac sequential, Alfa D2 twin cam, naturally aspirated).
@@Matteo_Licata With better weight distribution.
Chrysler did the same for '76, with the Feather Duster and Feather Dart... and went to production with it!😉
There is more to the story. Two aluminum X1/9s were turned over to American car magazines for evaluation and a story. Taken to a race track, one of the journalists crashed one of the prototypes, comprehensively damaging it. The team from the factory quickly called in the other car, loaded them both on their truck and left.( I owned 4 X1/9s over the years and I always said "If only they had made them out of aluminum.")
Thank you for letting me know, as I hadn’t heard about this incident!
Yes, I guess many X1/9 owners would have greatly appreciated the aluminum’s resistance to corrosion…
There was a similar exercise with the Austin Metro
Really? Didn’t know that! Is there some info about it somewhere?
How do we make the X1/9 lighter?
Easy, just remove one wiper :)
Eagle eye ;)
Wouldn't rust! Should have followed with it! Wonder what happened to the tooling for the body? Should make aluminium body's now?
1) Although it doesn't "rust" aluminum does corrode, espically if touching other metals (galvanic reaction, noticed in early Land Rovers when first imported to the USA where winter roads are salted, a practice not done in GB). 2) In the video it was mentioned that they used the same tooling.
Such a lovely car. Why did they allow all these wonderful cars to just fade away….such a pity!
wow, when did you become aware of this paper?
I’ve been aware of the aluminum X1/9s for a long time, but it’s only recently that I bought it to use as a reference for a magazine article. You can get it from the SAE website: www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/890718/
Oh, what could’ve been! Imagine an aluminium-bodied X1/9, re-engineered to compensate for the reduced strength of that metal, and given even a modest twin-cam engine. It would’ve been an absolute giant-killer of a car, capable of high speeds with impeccable handling. Another lost opportunity for Fiat.
Not to mention that they would likely have been more durable!
@@GRAHAMAUS : I disagree, as aluminum of the same strength has less fatigue resistance than steel.
@@johndavidwolf4239 Aluminium structures are usually made far stronger than an equivalent steel one in order to gain acceptable fatigue life. Bicycle frames are an example - aluminium frames are FAR stiffer than steel ones, and yet still fail at an early stage, which makes them too stiff to ride nicely. For a car structure to survive if made in aluminium, it needs to be similarly stronger, by design. However, it is stated in the script that the alloy bodied X1/9 performed adequately on the Belgian pave at MIRA.
@@pashakdescilly7517 : It is also dependent on the alloy, and construction method, but in general I agree.
Can i please have some of those panels. Wished they made all x19 in aluminum. Rust is a problem in our cars
I believe there are some GRP panels available for X1/9s, but no, the Alcan ones aren’t available, sadly :)
@@Matteo_Licata there are a few guys who make fibreglass Dallara kits for these x19 in Italy I've seen. So atleast if needed one day i can get and ship it to me here in South Africa.
Grazia Mille for a nice video again 👍🏻👍🏻 ciao
I had one of these cars. It handled quite nicely on dry pavement. When it was wet or raining it would hydroplane right off the road. When you braked hard it would just slide. Slid mine right under the back of a Ford pick up truck. Dangerous!!!! It looked good sitting in the drive way though.
Sounds to me that was more a function of the tires you were running than the car.
@@johndavidwolf4239 maybe but they had excellent tread but as the motor is behind the seats, there is very little weight to the front end. Wet asphalt with a little oiliness to it is like a skating rink. On the interstate at 50 to 60 mph it wanted to hydroplane right off the road.
👍👍👍👍
The ultimate x1/ 9 would be aluminium body and Dallara race engine.
Bravissimi
Grazie!!
Alcan could have build those Aluminum Bertone X1/9 for the US and Canada.
Should have went with SAPA or Hydro instead. Better quality aluminum plants.
Should have given it to the Brazilian Dardo clone.
I would swap my garage queen gt 3.2 alfa for one of those ,anyone interested? 😂
Surely we should always seek to make Audi engineers squirm !
and yet the Audi A2 proved that most folks don't give a damn about weight.
Indeed. I've never heard anyone (apart from Lotus fans, maybe) buying a car because it was light...
@@Matteo_Licata except for me, of course -- I loved my BX because it was light (unthirsty), fast (both going straight and in curves) and comfortable.
So if the driver is 40kg lighter ends up the same...
Oh you mean the lancia monte carlo ...well of course you do ....
Cute as he'll but what a rotten little engine. On the steel cars that is.