Jeffrey, I have watched more than a few of your interviews and rarely have I seen you so engaged and excited by a guest, and that's not to detract from your other guests by the way! Thank you for giving a platform to yet another incredibly interesting individual with some really valuable messages to convey. Your videos are a real treasure trove of discovery!
I first watched Pierre's talk on the Lankavatara Sutra several times. Such a unique perspective on what is probably the most important of the Buddhist sutras. Now I am very glad to learn about Pierre, the philosopher through this series. .
What a wholesome way to end the interview. It made me smile when Pierre Grimes laughed and asked: "What?! Do you mean it's over?" Thank you both for this engaging and highly elucidative discussion.
24:20 i always felt like mushrooms tsught you the process of waking up. Right when digestion begins, a process happens and you start loosening up, wiggling around. Before you know it, your tongue posture is excellent, your brow and jaw muscles are relaxed, spine feels mobile etc
Alan Watts said that only certain people exude love from their being. Dr. Mishlove is one of these people. He is so warm and honest...thank you so much for picking the brains of these titanic intellects.
Beautiful presentation. Thank you. In my 20s I encountered one of the subjects of the LSD tests done at Columbia in the early 1950s. She was a bit under the influence of alcohol at a social event and found a very willing audience (me). That was one of the two most interesting 'discussions' (actually, I just listened) I've had in my life. Inside of about 20 minutes I learned a lot by just listening to her.
Sure, several things, some significant and some just interesting. She and her husband (a faculty member and a really good human being, his personality was a bit like Jeffrey Mishlove's) were grad students when they volunteered to get paid to participate in a program being run by the psychology department at Columbia. I was in grad school (at another university, where her husband was on the faculty) when she told me about it so I completely understood the financial situation of grad students. They did non know what the program was before entering it. The program was run very professionally. The people administering it were highly trained and they made sure that everything was done in extremely positive conditions, pleasant people, pleasant music, pleasant colors, just as nice as possible They were exposed to a number of additional conditions but the only one I remember her describing was being taken to Times Square while using the drug. She said that it was a spectacular experience, far greater than without the drug. An extremely important point that she made involved the psychoanalysis they went through during the trials - a major objective of the study. She was in her 20s and since childhood she'd experienced very severe asthma attacks. LSD allowed her to clearly see herself and under the analysis she saw that her condition was a physical manifestation of of a psychological condition. I won't describe the exact cause here (just in case it leads to her identity), but it was a response to having the equivalent of a modern Tiger Mother. She saw that the pressure that her mother put on her caused the asthma attacks. Upon that realization the attacks immediately stopped and in the nearly 25 years that followed she had not has another asthma attack. LSD can, if properly used, be a tremendous aid in psychological treatments. She strongly emphasized how much LSD opened her up and allowed her to see her existence. The other important point(s) were probably a motive for her telling me these things. They amounted to a warning. She pointed out that the doses that she was exposed to were less than 1% of what was being used on the street at the time. She pointed out that the amount of the drug she took was extremely potent and she could see how, in dismal drug house conditions, people were becoming psychotic. She also pointed out that the purity of the LSD on the streets was probably low. Impurities can have very damaging effects. Considering the effect it has on her she was could not imagine how it might effect people taking over 100 times more in a single dose. [As an aside, before writing this I took 2 Tylenol for a sinus headache. If I took 200 of them I would painfully die.] Now the disclaimer. I'm one of the nerdiest people you'll ever meet. I've never used illegal drugs and that includes pot. My alcohol use has been close to nothing. I don't want control of others but I absolutely demand control of myself and refuse to give up that control to drugs. So this posting is not to promote experimenting by untrained people. I'm passing on knowledge that a very kind person was nice enough to provide to me. I hope that LSD and other similar compounds can be explored properly by good people in the future. Unfortunately, I met her over 40 years ago and I don't remember all of the details.
Thank you for your comment. The reason I left out the details when I first posted was because we had a very busy day and I was rushed. Then I forgot to go back and include the additional information but your question prompted my memory.
So far, lovely discussion. I'm a huge advocate of psychedelics. Yes, I've taken them both spiritually and recreationally. I've found that even recreational use leads to spiritual experiences. My roommate joined me and he's not spiritual at all, but the experience led to very deep discussions with a candor that was, and is, atypical of him. He's usually bullheaded and reserved. He said it was very therapeutic for him. I k ow my use of mushrooms, prior to trying lsd, actually saved me from depression. Hell, led me to start playing tennis and halving my weight. Psychedelics can be intensely therapeutic, even when you have a bad trip, the trick is to have someone you can discuss it with.
Excellent conversation. Just one correction: Grimes refers the One as a concept of Plato several times but the One is a neo-Platonic concept developed by Plotinus. It's refreshing to see and hear others who appreciate Plato as a mystic as opposed to the many relatively dry academic presentations of his ideas that lack this appreciation.
Plotinus did not advance anything new in regard to the Platonic tradition. His conception of The One is his way of interpreting what Plato calls The Good, which you can see in Republic, and especially in the Allegory of the Cave. The One and The Good are the same thing according to Plotinus.
this was momentous so glad to come across such a giant of philosophy this man is incredible and Jeffrey your skill at interviewing is awesome long may you live for a poor floundering satta
I'm addicted to morning coffee. I've been drinking it since I was a child. Most of us are addicted to the mainstream news media in the same way I am addicted to caffeine. News media addiction, however, is more dangerous than heroin addiction.
Many, including me, who've experienced LSD say that it was good to have done it, it changed our lives and "consciousness", but that we feel no need to repeat the experience. The mundane aspects of society and culture seem to be even more mundane, more trivial, as time passes, and a transcendent higher reality all the more real and desirable. Yep!
Thank you for this discussion. How interesting that I was thinking about that sculpture at the beginning of your conversation with Pierre Grimes and he commented upon it later! I don't know whether you have ever explained its significance, Dr. Mishlove. Would you please do so in a future episode?
Wonderfull interview betwixt two wiseman, I have one point to add at this interesting exchange on the ‘inner tradition’ Let’s not forget that most of the Wise, learned and pioneering ‘Greeks’ where students of the Mysteries, Science and Art in Keme (Ancient Egypt) The Ancient Egyptians did originally have A High spiritual culture where Wisdom, Art and Science where One! instead of fractured factions, sects which developed because once practitioners (Among them certain Priest and Farao’s) found out they could use their specific knowledge for their own benefits instead of the greater good, For mankind. In their heyday they would study and select gifted children to become students in the most secretive “Inner School” despite their background, but time and corruption would push the needy and greedy in front to join this ‘Elite’ tradition just to enjoy status and Power... Still my own intuition, once I entered the Great Pyramid after lifelong self study of the longest manifested High civilization on Earth we know off, Is that It was founded on A civilization before Keme, As in their own mythology they describe how Osiris, Isis, Seth etc, teached them the Gnostic Kosmology how to build, Grow the crops etc. There is so many similarities between Keme and Ancient India There most have been A strong connection or A common source; either A pre-dating Civilization or Visiting teachers of higher knowledge. btw I adore Ancient Greece (And enjoy the beautifull mediterranean peninsula each summer) but Eurocentric polotics have subdued the imported role Keme has served for Mankind. And the historical focus is on the Gateway of Europe and the powerful Rome both off these civilizations highly respected the culture off “All-Keme” (Alchemy)
I think you will enjoy this this interview. It is not scheduled for public release until September 9. However, this link will work now: th-cam.com/video/4GGmMvaWGQw/w-d-xo.html
Three points as I listen to this playlist. 1) Drug free childbirth produces a hallucinogenic effect. Every thing tinged in pink (girl) and timeless reality. 2) I took Dr Weiss’s past life meditation here on TH-cam and it landed me at the DMT field and temple. 3) Epic dose of psilocybin will introduce you to the Mantis and she will split your back open so that your inner mantis might emerge. Best set and setting is dance music from relight and a good crowd.
Thank you for the interview. If i could point out... the 85% of the interview was about psychedelics but that is, personally, second, or third or at the very very end, almost insignificant. Then at the very end of the interview, they start talking about facts about how we engaged life and this eternal need to please Ego or self center activity and the seriousness of it. This lattest part was more nutritious than the first, for me at least. For the simple reason psycodelycs needs 'time' but you to point out the truth of the false does not. You see? Then what is the use of them at end? If one can, actually, listen carefully.
I would like to correct the reference to Soma in the Vedas. In deep meditation the radiant green coloured drops appear in perception as they are expressed perhaps by the brain. They are more likely products of the etheric body. Thaddeus Golas used LSD but eventually left it and referred back to his own method of perception.
LIstening to someone else speakin on using psychedellics for real beneficial use is freeing. I wish some of my friends would. It really is view altering. Doing meditation for 3 hours on lsd changed me. When he says "seeing correctly" he is saying, seeing without throwing your own mental projections that are learned and conditioned, in whiich we wrongly believe that is "I" and that it is a solid thing.
Parmenides worked from states of non-ordinary or expanded awareness, too. Peter Kingsley makes a good case for this in his book, In the Dark Places of Wisdom and elsewhere, although he doesn't specifically mention psychedelics. Kingsley stresses Parmenides' role as a traditional healer (iatromantis) who prescribed and oversaw incubations. He excavates a form of philosophical knowing present at the dawn of western thought that he believes has been long forgotten, perhaps even actively suppressed. In the Dark Places of Wisdom is a good read. I dislike how Kingsley presents states of ecstatic knowing and reasoned argument as being necessarily opposed to each other. That is silly. Plato obviously found them compatible, and so did Parmenides.
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If I have an absolute favourite guest it is Pierre Grimes what a wonderful and wise guy.
34:45 ''You can't reach for meaning unless you begin to see your own existence as meaning.'' That's so beautiful.
Wonderful talk thank you Jeffrey and Pierre
You have a heart of gold Dr. Mishlove. Thank you for these discussions, it is keeping me sane through these hard times. I very much appreciate.
Pierre is so knowledgeable, but also open-minded and playful, a great talk! Jeffrey also facilitated the discussion very well.
More.More Pierre Grimes.
Dr. Grimes seems like a real nice fellow. I look forward to listening to some of his philosophy lectures.
Thank you Dr.Jeffrey and Thinking Allowed. 🍄
Found this ", accidently". Much needed. Civil discourse . Rare today.
Every psychedelic experience has changed my life in a different way, but Eye say microdosing is the future, and man its a science in itself...
Really a much needed discussion, thank you, best Regards!
What a beautiful interview 👏 💞...thank you!!
Jeffrey, I have watched more than a few of your interviews and rarely have I seen you so engaged and excited by a guest, and that's not to detract from your other guests by the way! Thank you for giving a platform to yet another incredibly interesting individual with some really valuable messages to convey. Your videos are a real treasure trove of discovery!
I first watched Pierre's talk on the Lankavatara Sutra several times. Such a unique perspective on what is probably the most important of the Buddhist sutras. Now I am very glad to learn about Pierre, the philosopher through this series.
.
Thank you.
Wonderful Pierre who opened my eyes several years ago. Thank you!
Enjoyable convo. Very cool personalities
Thank you so much. I appreciate you and thank you for your time. Thanks to all the people who have put themselves here with you. Much love
What a wholesome way to end the interview. It made me smile when Pierre Grimes laughed and asked: "What?! Do you mean it's over?"
Thank you both for this engaging and highly elucidative discussion.
I enjoyed this conversation, thanks
thank you very much love you
24:20 i always felt like mushrooms tsught you the process of waking up. Right when digestion begins, a process happens and you start loosening up, wiggling around. Before you know it, your tongue posture is excellent, your brow and jaw muscles are relaxed, spine feels mobile etc
16:30
Thats a party!
I loved this conversation, full of wisdom and luminosity
Wonderful talk! Deep, meaningful and delightful! Thank you!
Love yall gentleman. I hope my generation has the minds and hearts to match.
Alan Watts said that only certain people exude love from their being. Dr. Mishlove is one of these people. He is so warm and honest...thank you so much for picking the brains of these titanic intellects.
what a great pair
Beautiful presentation. Thank you. In my 20s I encountered one of the subjects of the LSD tests done at Columbia in the early 1950s. She was a bit under the influence of alcohol at a social event and found a very willing audience (me). That was one of the two most interesting 'discussions' (actually, I just listened) I've had in my life. Inside of about 20 minutes I learned a lot by just listening to her.
Sure, several things, some significant and some just interesting. She and her husband (a faculty member and a really good human being, his personality was a bit like Jeffrey Mishlove's) were grad students when they volunteered to get paid to participate in a program being run by the psychology department at Columbia. I was in grad school (at another university, where her husband was on the faculty) when she told me about it so I completely understood the financial situation of grad students. They did non know what the program was before entering it. The program was run very professionally. The people administering it were highly trained and they made sure that everything was done in extremely positive conditions, pleasant people, pleasant music, pleasant colors, just as nice as possible They were exposed to a number of additional conditions but the only one I remember her describing was being taken to Times Square while using the drug. She said that it was a spectacular experience, far greater than without the drug.
An extremely important point that she made involved the psychoanalysis they went through during the trials - a major objective of the study. She was in her 20s and since childhood she'd experienced very severe asthma attacks. LSD allowed her to clearly see herself and under the analysis she saw that her condition was a physical manifestation of of a psychological condition. I won't describe the exact cause here (just in case it leads to her identity), but it was a response to having the equivalent of a modern Tiger Mother. She saw that the pressure that her mother put on her caused the asthma attacks. Upon that realization the attacks immediately stopped and in the nearly 25 years that followed she had not has another asthma attack. LSD can, if properly used, be a tremendous aid in psychological treatments. She strongly emphasized how much LSD opened her up and allowed her to see her existence.
The other important point(s) were probably a motive for her telling me these things. They amounted to a warning. She pointed out that the doses that she was exposed to were less than 1% of what was being used on the street at the time. She pointed out that the amount of the drug she took was extremely potent and she could see how, in dismal drug house conditions, people were becoming psychotic. She also pointed out that the purity of the LSD on the streets was probably low. Impurities can have very damaging effects. Considering the effect it has on her she was could not imagine how it might effect people taking over 100 times more in a single dose. [As an aside, before writing this I took 2 Tylenol for a sinus headache. If I took 200 of them I would painfully die.]
Now the disclaimer. I'm one of the nerdiest people you'll ever meet. I've never used illegal drugs and that includes pot. My alcohol use has been close to nothing. I don't want control of others but I absolutely demand control of myself and refuse to give up that control to drugs. So this posting is not to promote experimenting by untrained people. I'm passing on knowledge that a very kind person was nice enough to provide to me. I hope that LSD and other similar compounds can be explored properly by good people in the future. Unfortunately, I met her over 40 years ago and I don't remember all of the details.
Thank you for your comment. The reason I left out the details when I first posted was because we had a very busy day and I was rushed. Then I forgot to go back and include the additional information but your question prompted my memory.
Incredible conversation.
Ty
Very much needed, indeed. Thank you.
So far, lovely discussion.
I'm a huge advocate of psychedelics. Yes, I've taken them both spiritually and recreationally. I've found that even recreational use leads to spiritual experiences.
My roommate joined me and he's not spiritual at all, but the experience led to very deep discussions with a candor that was, and is, atypical of him. He's usually bullheaded and reserved.
He said it was very therapeutic for him.
I k ow my use of mushrooms, prior to trying lsd, actually saved me from depression. Hell, led me to start playing tennis and halving my weight.
Psychedelics can be intensely therapeutic, even when you have a bad trip, the trick is to have someone you can discuss it with.
Excellent conversation. Just one correction: Grimes refers the One as a concept of Plato several times but the One is a neo-Platonic concept developed by Plotinus. It's refreshing to see and hear others who appreciate Plato as a mystic as opposed to the many relatively dry academic presentations of his ideas that lack this appreciation.
Plotinus did not advance anything new in regard to the Platonic tradition. His conception of The One is his way of interpreting what Plato calls The Good, which you can see in Republic, and especially in the Allegory of the Cave. The One and The Good are the same thing according to Plotinus.
Grimes is correct.
this was momentous so glad to come across such a giant of philosophy this man is incredible and Jeffrey your skill at interviewing is awesome long may you live for a poor floundering satta
I'm addicted to morning coffee. I've been drinking it since I was a child. Most of us are addicted to the mainstream news media in the same way I am addicted to caffeine. News media addiction, however, is more dangerous than heroin addiction.
What an awesome guest. So nice I need to listen twice.
wonderful ! thank you.
Old school. Enjoy it why it's still available . . .
Many, including me, who've experienced LSD say that it was good to have done it, it changed our lives and "consciousness", but that we feel no need to repeat the experience. The mundane aspects of society and culture seem to be even more mundane, more trivial, as time passes, and a transcendent higher reality all the more real and desirable. Yep!
Thank you for this discussion. How interesting that I was thinking about that sculpture at the beginning of your conversation with Pierre Grimes and he commented upon it later! I don't know whether you have ever explained its significance, Dr. Mishlove.
Would you please do so in a future episode?
The sculpture is from Zimbabwe, made by the Shona people. It is called "family".
Great talk
Wonderfull interview betwixt two wiseman,
I have one point to add at this interesting exchange on the ‘inner tradition’
Let’s not forget that most of the Wise, learned and pioneering ‘Greeks’ where students of the Mysteries, Science and Art in Keme (Ancient Egypt) The Ancient Egyptians did originally have A High spiritual culture where Wisdom, Art and Science where One! instead of fractured factions, sects which developed because once practitioners (Among them certain Priest and Farao’s) found out they could use their specific knowledge for their own benefits instead of the greater good, For mankind.
In their heyday they would study and select gifted children to become students in the most secretive “Inner School” despite their background, but time and corruption would push the needy and greedy in front to join this ‘Elite’ tradition just to enjoy status and Power...
Still my own intuition, once I entered the Great Pyramid after lifelong self study of the longest manifested High civilization on Earth we know off, Is that It was founded on A civilization before Keme, As in their own mythology they describe how Osiris, Isis, Seth etc, teached them the Gnostic Kosmology how to build, Grow the crops etc.
There is so many similarities between Keme and Ancient India There most have been A strong connection or A common source; either A pre-dating Civilization or Visiting teachers of higher knowledge.
btw I adore Ancient Greece (And enjoy the beautifull mediterranean peninsula each summer) but Eurocentric polotics have subdued the imported role Keme has served for Mankind. And the historical focus is on the Gateway of Europe and the powerful Rome both off these civilizations highly respected the culture off “All-Keme” (Alchemy)
I think you will enjoy this this interview. It is not scheduled for public release until September 9. However, this link will work now: th-cam.com/video/4GGmMvaWGQw/w-d-xo.html
You should get Peter Sjöstedt-H on the show
Jeffrey himself, is very knowledgeable.
Fascinating, to say the least.
Always good talks here
Very cool! Thanks as always dear friend
Great conversation!
Wonderful!
No need for belief. Know thy self, there is no 'god'. Brilliant!
Love this
Three points as I listen to this playlist. 1) Drug free childbirth produces a hallucinogenic effect. Every thing tinged in pink (girl) and timeless reality. 2) I took Dr Weiss’s past life meditation here on TH-cam and it landed me at the DMT field and temple. 3) Epic dose of psilocybin will introduce you to the Mantis and she will split your back open so that your inner mantis might emerge. Best set and setting is dance music from relight and a good crowd.
Damn, these really should be longer. Damn...
riversandstones i watch like 3 videos at a time !
Thanks!
Thank you for the interview.
If i could point out... the 85% of the interview was about psychedelics but that is, personally, second, or third or at the very very end, almost insignificant.
Then at the very end of the interview, they start talking about facts about how we engaged life and this eternal need to please Ego or self center activity and the seriousness of it. This lattest part was more nutritious than the first, for me at least.
For the simple reason psycodelycs needs 'time' but you to point out the truth of the false does not. You see? Then what is the use of them at end? If one can, actually, listen carefully.
fantastic
what a wonderful final laugh by pierre!!
I would like to correct the reference to Soma in the Vedas. In deep meditation the radiant green coloured drops appear in perception as they are expressed perhaps by the brain. They are more likely products of the etheric body. Thaddeus Golas used LSD but eventually left it and referred back to his own method of perception.
LIstening to someone else speakin on using psychedellics for real beneficial use is freeing. I wish some of my friends would. It really is view altering. Doing meditation for 3 hours on lsd changed me. When he says "seeing correctly" he is saying, seeing without throwing your own mental projections that are learned and conditioned, in whiich we wrongly believe that is "I" and that it is a solid thing.
This is one of the main teachings of Rudolf Steiner in his school of thought, anthroposophy.
💗
Parmenides worked from states of non-ordinary or expanded awareness, too. Peter Kingsley makes a good case for this in his book, In the Dark Places of Wisdom and elsewhere, although he doesn't specifically mention psychedelics. Kingsley stresses Parmenides' role as a traditional healer (iatromantis) who prescribed and oversaw incubations. He excavates a form of philosophical knowing present at the dawn of western thought that he believes has been long forgotten, perhaps even actively suppressed. In the Dark Places of Wisdom is a good read. I dislike how Kingsley presents states of ecstatic knowing and reasoned argument as being necessarily opposed to each other. That is silly. Plato obviously found them compatible, and so did Parmenides.
delicious!
A guru from India said he doesn't believe in believing. More clear now.
"Know Thyself". I need to. Or not make it.
I am an essayist on human cognition.
Can the videos be organized somehow?
🥰😚
❤💋
😚😊
Acid is the Answer
Alan Watts woz ear 😆
And rather more Jeff than Pierre! 🌈🦉
Get S😊me!
I wish I had used more drugs...hummm, there's still time.
Peggy Harris legal psychedelics 2020
If you wish to find the absolute truth,do research on Islam.
So thereligionofpeace.com/?
Quite frankly I have to say.....Pierre Grimes is a puppy ;)