This is great content. I know you don't have a ton of time to shoot, but sharing your technical knowledge is absolutely worthwhile (and not something many others are able to share). I'm hoping your updates are more regular soon!
Terrific information Jake. I've owned so many risers (used and new) with no information for MAX/MIN tiller bolt settings. It's so aggravating that manufacturers can't list this simple BASIC information for their product. Thanks so much for this info Jake.
Thank you one more time. Very useful. I used the maximum in and now I understand why the tip of the limbs was destroyed and the noise it made at full draw.
I recently acquired an used ATF riser, and was warned not to turn the tiller all the way in. "It can break limbs". I did not receive a W&W manual, so this video is extremely useful and well timed. Thanks man!
Perfect timing for this video. Thank you so much. Because of all the info you put out there I feel more equipt now to actually be able to have my bow set up by myself.
Just what I needed... now that I know a method to determine max in and max out I can always work out the factory setting. Or just ignore it from now on and simply work within that range. Great info to get out there Jake!
Thanks for the video Jake. For the tiller bolt maximum out position, in addition to making sure the end of the limb does not move past the vertical centreline of the tiller bolt, do we also need to consider the rule of thumb for recommended thread engagement? From google the rule for a steel (tiller) bolt into aluminum (riser) the minimum thread engagement should be 2-2.5 times the bolt diameter. This may be a position that is closer in to the riser than by using the end of the limb and centreline of tiller bolt rule.
Hi Jake, on most Kinetic risers we can can make 4 complete adjustment rounds (+ or - 2 #) and it's recommended to stay between 1,5 to 2,5 rounds (+0,5 to -0,5 from the middle position) my tiller is + 0,5, like standard factory and with the adjustments (1,5 low limb and 2 rounds up limb) it has a direct influence on the balance between elasticity and power then, on the flight of the arrow . you feel too hard with 30# limbs ? if you make 4 rounds up you won't have a good result with 28# because there's a mecanic resistance and a limb torsion, then it's better to use 28# limbs with 2 rounds (balanced position) this is what i made and after some adjustments (viewfinder) my arrows go out faster and the direction is more stable and i feel less pain in my shoulder (bow)
Hi Jake, Uukha state on their website that their limbs are made to preform in the median bolt position. Screwing the bolt to the bottom position results in shifting the main forces from the limb to the tip. This results in poor performance and xcessive noise. Im wondering whether this applies to Win&Win and Hoyt as well? I would love to see a draw force comparison of the effects of tiller bolt in the 3 position, in out snd the middle. Thanks for your reviews.
Great vid, great info. I have a question about bowstring twist and natural clocking. Please direct me to the appropriate video to make my query. Thank you
Would the paper-gap method work with the Win&Win Nana TFT riser? I have a pair of WNS Explorer 68-18lbs limbs, but when I had them at the max out position without the paper gap, the draw weight would be at 20+ lbs, which was greater than the limbs' 18 lbs specs.
For anyone with an specific w&w wondering the factory setting an email to them will fix it I did it when i bought my atfx an was about to buy new limbs because i forgot how far in i had set the tiller bolts
I have a Kinetic Invinso 25" riser with 28lbs medium limbs, and my tiller bolts appear to have the stopping points. If I'm trying to have a positive tiller setting of about 6mm, is it advisable to screw the top and bottoms bolts until the stop and then start unscrewing the top bolt to make the 6mm difference?
Jake, how far above the the poundage rating of the limbs for a 25" riser can you go without overstressing the limbs? I ask because I'm shooting a WA traditional class setup with a shorter, less deflexed riser which gives me #37-40 with #30 limbs. I feel just the right amount of stacking at full draw (29.5") but that's subjective.
W&W has changed the designs so much over the years I would need to release a tiller bolt for each so around 10-12 different bolts themselves. This will be a custom order option for a specific riser possibly when our Austria hub launches.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I see thank you. Putting a collar on the bolts you currently have for sale would stop them fitting some models than they would otherwise fit without the collar?
Hey. I was experimenting with bow balance and sight movement. Can you tell me why isn't anyone shooting a down angled front bar on recurve? Wanted to test it, but just asking you before buying stuff :)
Hey there, I personally never tried it, but Michelle Kroppen from Germany does shoot an angled down stab and it’s good enough for team WC. I think it’s just a thing of preference. So try it I’d say :)
Some people do! I've shot with an ex-compounder who just preferred the feel and familiarity of it. He shot 610 at 70m so it clearly wasn't negatively affecting anything too much... I tried using one for moving my long rod out of my sight picture when I was shooting heavy arrows at low poundage at 90m, but really didn't like how the bow reacted out of my hand.
I'm of the mind that the perfect position for the limb bolts is so that the flat underside of the mushroom is flat in the surface of the limb. Adjustments for tiller can then be made that are small enough for changes in this interface to remain 'near enough'. If people stopped using limb bolts as a means to avoid buying different weight limbs or different spine arrows, this problem pretty much goes away. My pet hate is hearing well-meaning archers explain to noobs that "these bolts are for changing the draw weight of your bow". They're not (even though they do). They're for adjusting tiller and making fine adjustments during arrow selection/tuning. If you're using limb bolts at either of their extreme settings you're either using the wrong limbs or the wrong arrows or both. Get it right, stop looking for short cuts. Them spend your time and money with a good coach and practicing. I have learnt this from making these mistakes.
Ok to fix this problem stop buying this crap go with a long bow or short bow made of one piece of wood that is sealed naturally you avoid rust mold and waterlogged issues bc the bow is water prof not resistant huge difference 😊
clearly you are not a mechanic :D :D it's painful to watch :D :D The measurement is "daylight" and you fear bolt sheering off instead of limb cracking in the edge of the bolt... you are reading Win-win paper without having a clue about materials and mechanics. Sorry. The rest of your movies are very good but this one... rofl.
This is great content. I know you don't have a ton of time to shoot, but sharing your technical knowledge is absolutely worthwhile (and not something many others are able to share). I'm hoping your updates are more regular soon!
Terrific information Jake. I've owned so many risers (used and new) with no information for MAX/MIN tiller bolt settings. It's so aggravating that manufacturers can't list this simple BASIC information for their product. Thanks so much for this info Jake.
Thank you one more time. Very useful. I used the maximum in and now I understand why the tip of the limbs was destroyed and the noise it made at full draw.
I recently acquired an used ATF riser, and was warned not to turn the tiller all the way in. "It can break limbs". I did not receive a W&W manual, so this video is extremely useful and well timed. Thanks man!
The manual isnt much help either!
Perfect timing for this video. Thank you so much. Because of all the info you put out there I feel more equipt now to actually be able to have my bow set up by myself.
Just what I needed... now that I know a method to determine max in and max out I can always work out the factory setting. Or just ignore it from now on and simply work within that range. Great info to get out there Jake!
For mk korea risers, the manual mentioned the max out position will be when you see the bolt thread outside the bolt hole, very easy to tell.
Thanks for the video Jake. For the tiller bolt maximum out position, in addition to making sure the end of the limb does not move past the vertical centreline of the tiller bolt, do we also need to consider the rule of thumb for recommended thread engagement? From google the rule for a steel (tiller) bolt into aluminum (riser) the minimum thread engagement should be 2-2.5 times the bolt diameter. This may be a position that is closer in to the riser than by using the end of the limb and centreline of tiller bolt rule.
Ww factory settings is
Tiller bolt 20 mm from the riser.
2 turns in
2 out.
Your wellcome
Not on all of their risers. Each one is different from model to model. Otherwise I would have integrated the stops into the Precision Tiller Bolts.
Lolol yes!!!! For such an expensive company, I have no idea how W&W hasn't addressed this yet. Been wondering this for years!!!!
For the maxium in postion - Would we not check once the bow is braced for the paper method, to see if there's a gap or not against the bolt head.
Hi Jake,
on most Kinetic risers we can can make 4 complete adjustment rounds (+ or - 2 #) and it's recommended to stay between 1,5 to 2,5 rounds (+0,5 to -0,5 from the middle position)
my tiller is + 0,5, like standard factory and with the adjustments (1,5 low limb and 2 rounds up limb) it has a direct influence on the balance between elasticity and power then, on the flight of the arrow .
you feel too hard with 30# limbs ?
if you make 4 rounds up you won't have a good result with 28# because there's a mecanic resistance and a limb torsion, then it's better to use 28# limbs with 2 rounds (balanced position)
this is what i made and after some adjustments (viewfinder) my arrows go out faster and the direction is more stable and i feel less pain in my shoulder (bow)
Good stuff - explains the creaking and gravelly crunches I heard one time when I had wound in too far!
I had assumed there wasn't a too far in..
Will those tiller bolts fit ilf Samick Discovery?
Hi Jake,
Uukha state on their website that their limbs are made to preform in the median bolt position. Screwing the bolt to the bottom position results in shifting the main forces from the limb to the tip. This results in poor performance and xcessive noise.
Im wondering whether this applies to Win&Win and Hoyt as well?
I would love to see a draw force comparison of the effects of tiller bolt in the 3 position, in out snd the middle.
Thanks for your reviews.
Very informative video, tiller adjustment seems to be black magic so many variation on this subject. Many Thanks Jake U K👍👍
Great vid, great info. I have a question about bowstring twist and natural clocking. Please direct me to the appropriate video to make my query. Thank you
Would the paper-gap method work with the Win&Win Nana TFT riser? I have a pair of WNS Explorer 68-18lbs limbs, but when I had them at the max out position without the paper gap, the draw weight would be at 20+ lbs, which was greater than the limbs' 18 lbs specs.
10:35 Is this the optimal setting? Having even surface contact between the limb and the tiller bolt, no light on either side?
That’s for max in. Not optimal.
Optimal is whatever your needs are. But within the range shown in this video.
Did this too my bow made it 100 percent quieter thanks BF Great Britain
Thank you so much for this information!
great presentation, thanks for the info.
Thank you!
For anyone with an specific w&w wondering the factory setting an email to them will fix it I did it when i bought my atfx an was about to buy new limbs because i forgot how far in i had set the tiller bolts
If anyone with that bow want the email I will search for their answer and post it here
Very good and great video. Thanks!!!
I have a Kinetic Invinso 25" riser with 28lbs medium limbs, and my tiller bolts appear to have the stopping points. If I'm trying to have a positive tiller setting of about 6mm, is it advisable to screw the top and bottoms bolts until the stop and then start unscrewing the top bolt to make the 6mm difference?
Will we see you at Lancaster this year?
Jake, how far above the the poundage rating of the limbs for a 25" riser can you go without overstressing the limbs? I ask because I'm shooting a WA traditional class setup with a shorter, less deflexed riser which gives me #37-40 with #30 limbs. I feel just the right amount of stacking at full draw (29.5") but that's subjective.
very helpfull! thx!!!
Question is though Jake, what GSM is the paper you're using ;)
So, its safe with a Hoyt Tillerbolt to go all in since there is the "stop" mechanism? I have a Satori and i always wondered about that.
Yes.
Quick question: will the same setup approach apply to WNS risers and limbs? Particularly the Vantage.
Sure, this can apply to basically all bows.
Hi Jake, great video. Why did you decide not to add a collar to your new limb bolts, so that at least the max in position is determined?
W&W has changed the designs so much over the years I would need to release a tiller bolt for each so around 10-12 different bolts themselves.
This will be a custom order option for a specific riser possibly when our Austria hub launches.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I see thank you. Putting a collar on the bolts you currently have for sale would stop them fitting some models than they would otherwise fit without the collar?
Correct
Did I understand correctly? tiller surface and limb be one level? I used subtitles germany from youtube translation.
For max in, yes
When it's level is the maximum position.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery thank you , For maximum and how many turns counterclockwise minimum?
?
Hey. I was experimenting with bow balance and sight movement. Can you tell me why isn't anyone shooting a down angled front bar on recurve? Wanted to test it, but just asking you before buying stuff :)
Hey there, I personally never tried it, but Michelle Kroppen from Germany does shoot an angled down stab and it’s good enough for team WC. I think it’s just a thing of preference. So try it I’d say :)
Some people do! I've shot with an ex-compounder who just preferred the feel and familiarity of it. He shot 610 at 70m so it clearly wasn't negatively affecting anything too much... I tried using one for moving my long rod out of my sight picture when I was shooting heavy arrows at low poundage at 90m, but really didn't like how the bow reacted out of my hand.
I'm of the mind that the perfect position for the limb bolts is so that the flat underside of the mushroom is flat in the surface of the limb. Adjustments for tiller can then be made that are small enough for changes in this interface to remain 'near enough'. If people stopped using limb bolts as a means to avoid buying different weight limbs or different spine arrows, this problem pretty much goes away. My pet hate is hearing well-meaning archers explain to noobs that "these bolts are for changing the draw weight of your bow". They're not (even though they do). They're for adjusting tiller and making fine adjustments during arrow selection/tuning. If you're using limb bolts at either of their extreme settings you're either using the wrong limbs or the wrong arrows or both. Get it right, stop looking for short cuts. Them spend your time and money with a good coach and practicing. I have learnt this from making these mistakes.
This does not give very much wiggle room to adjust draw weight or tiller.
+/- 10% usually
Ok to fix this problem stop buying this crap go with a long bow or short bow made of one piece of wood that is sealed naturally you avoid rust mold and waterlogged issues bc the bow is water prof not resistant huge difference 😊
clearly you are not a mechanic :D :D it's painful to watch :D :D The measurement is "daylight" and you fear bolt sheering off instead of limb cracking in the edge of the bolt... you are reading Win-win paper without having a clue about materials and mechanics. Sorry. The rest of your movies are very good but this one... rofl.