Zero spatk investment on spatk neutral nature mega latias Vs. 252/252 hp/spdef gliscor is still a 56.3% chance to OHKO with ice beam. If latias was modest it would be guaranteed.
I can't figure out why the positioning mattered. It literally all came down to getting latios in on a hard gliscor switch which he could have done like 12 times in the few minutes I watched. It always came down to that ice beam roll so I can't understand why the time waste.
@@rossstrickland1722 Perazoa dedicated his smogon career to stall. He will wait as long as possible before engaging in an attempt to frustrate the opponent. He also always waits for the last second on the timer to make his plays. J0ris, on the other hand, was trying to avoid the coinflip if possible, because he'd rather have 100% chance of winning than hypothetically 50%. So that's why it got delayed for so long.
@@goldenarmour7975 I mean I guess but normally you want to frustrate your opponent so they make a play that benefits you. Here there wasn’t an option for that as the one play he needed presented itself many times in the hard switch to gliscor. Actually looking back, his best opportunity came when torn hard switched to gliscor on a t wave from clefable. He wasn’t full on switch in and after entry chip he healed to 97%. If he had gone Latios on this switch he increases his chance to hit the range. This was mathematically the best play and he just missed it because he stalled too long.
this is not stall though. U have CM Latias as a wincon, Z Tornadus and SD gliscor on one side and trapper Heatran, CM Reunicles and CM Latias on the other side. This is a balance on balance game.
Your videos on stall have made me appreciate Stall a lot more. I usually play something between Balance and Bulky Offense, but a few of my recent end games resulted in PP Stalling as a win con. Because of your video on the thousand turn stall battle, i was able to appreciate the end game more and play it out better. Thanks! Subscribed!
Is there a number of turns limit to the game? becuase if not Theoratically latios could have much better odds for getting in on Tliscor than getting hit by Tornadorus since tornadorus has finite chances to catch latios getting in out of inifinite numbers of turns. But that isn't the case since for that Perazoa needs to switch aswell endlessly between skarmory and clefable in order to not lose pp and if he does switches between them he need to use roost since the rocks damage so they are both on timer. It is a battle with clear win condition with taking chances,for both sides,and if they don't take the chances one of them will lose from pp(the real timer).
I get there’s something to be said about “if he didn’t EV right then that’s a mistake and he should have lost” but maaaaan he played the lati perfect and wasn’t rewarded, that’s so tragic
I actually love seeing endgames where pp actually matters, since we don't usually think much about pp while playing, and it leads to interesting mindgames. I'm glad we got to see such an endgame play out in a world cup match!
i run ice fang on dondozo because it’s actually dozo’s best ice move (better than avalanche in terms of utility and stall potential) and is just flat out a great move for rest sleep talk stall due to its freeze chance now, why it’s run on gliscor is a complete mystery to me
I believe latios still loses as you torn can take one ice beam on a switch and then force latios out while u-turning. At that point roost on clef and if they switch latios back in you ice fang into their roosts.
It’s not a hard set definition but it typically means bringing something in without any sort of advantage or set up. I.e, no u-turn, not being a hard wall, no sacrifice, not trying to catch a forced switch, that would constitute a hard switch.
@@horodoomwolf They weren't, Latios specifically was actually less used than its base form, because as an offensive mon it preferred being either faster with scarf or stronger with Life Orb and you saved the mega slot for something else. Latias-Mega (which is being used here) was somewhat of a late discovery and it actually took advantage of the extra bulk to play as a calm mind sweeper.
Ifall he tried to heat wave the Skarmory, but Pakistan switched to Clefable, he would waste heat wave PP. If that happened enough times, heat wave would no longer be an option, and skarmory could stay in scott free.
all this complexity just for it to be completely meaningless most of the time because of accuracy and crits. really cant understand pro pokemon players
I can understand them. To play like this competitively, here are the steps you have to take: - Not value your opponents time - Not value *your own* time - Be the luckiest player on Earth and just don't get critically hit - Play with the most outrageous Pokémon designed for this style (Toxapex, Gliscor, Skarmory, Corviknight, Clefable, Heatran, Latias, Gothitelle, Ferrothorn, Blissey, there's more) I think congratulations. You've become a walking waste of time at parties and tournaments in 4 simple steps.
No, if Joris lost the gliscor, he lost the game, and if latias did ice beam into torn, it was a loss. Roost into ice fang was the most logical play, because roosting is the middle ground, even if Joris predicts the roost, he still ends up in a worse position than last turn. A bad player would’ve ice beamed and won, but his play would’ve been bad.
@@Ebpeebahe only lost if latias could switch back in on a paralysed torn. If they just Ice beam Into glider initially they lose as latios Is to low to switch back in after toxic dmg so tornadoes can just kill verything. Well assuming torn jas the pp to kill clef thoroughly 8 soft-boiled. Also Ice beam didn't kill anyway so they always lost irrelavent of when they had used it.
I know this is a really hot take, but stall is my favourite playstyle. I understand why people hate it. When you're losing to it, it feels like the game is entirely hopeless and that the next 75 turns are a waste of time. But for me I love it because if you make a mistake and your defensive core breaks, you get punished super hard. And you have to be consistent in not making mistakes, not making too many incorrect reads, over the course of a very long game. You need to plan in advance which of the opponent's Pokemon will go down first, and thus which of your Pokemon you can afford to lose as the game goes on. And many teams love to bring Trick + Choice item, meaning you have to predict whether thats the set the opponent is running, and predictively switch into which Pokemon you can afford to have crippled by the Choice item. Not to mention the fact that you can't always just be sitting around doing nothing forever. If your opponent keeps attacking, they will eventually crit. So you also have to do some probability management in minimising your risk of getting crit by not just letting your opponent keep attacking. And when playing against stall I enjoy trying to find the weak points in their defense as well as using probability management as I fish for crits. Of course it helps that I have an unreasonable amount of patience and a fondness for probability management. And I know most people hate stall. I'm not trying to convince anyone to enjoy stall, just thought I'd offer a different perspective on stall. Also if you read all this and you aren't already, make sure to subscribe to Freezai.
I really like stall as a team style but I mostly don't enjoy PP stalls. It's fun when either the stall manages to wear down and neutralise the opposing wincons or the opponent manages to break through your centerpieces. Just watching the PP number go down not so much usually, though the recent nerf to recovery moves' PP makes it more bearable. Luckily it's not that common in general anyway
As an offense player there is nothing I enjoy more than going up against a stall team and managing to locate and break through their weakest link and use the foothold to dismantle the rest of their structure until they can no longer function. Nothing like getting the knock off or will-o-wisp onto a gliscor before its orb activates and denying it regen. It is so satisfying
Truuuuuuuuuu That's why Pokémon battling has become such a turn off. That and power creep being absolutely insane. A dog that can have 2-and-half times its speed with a 300 base power STAB move if everybody else is dead? Better have a Normal type. Oh wait what's that? They invented an ability that does that to ALL of its moves? AND IT LEARNS SUCKER PUNCH? *AND IT'S STEEL TYPE SO YOU CAN'T EVEN POISON IT!?* Dah yeah game so fair game thanks GameFreak. 😐
This is why I prefer the doubles format, you're actually incentivised to do something rather than just switch and do nothing else for 4 and half hours straight over 1000 turns
so boring ... its not your fault, they ban all offensive strong mon to encourage stall and dont put limit on turns total with the player inflicting the most total damage wining by default (to punish regen). Its an rpg game, not suited for brain play with all the hax etc.
You do realise all the bans make stall worse right? The slow wallbreakers like hoopa-u and stuff that stall hates to face are better when offensive mons are banned. So no, stall is not 'boring' and you do not understand how banning works.
Idk people complain about it all the time but it's legit cool. It's just 1 strat in mons that's super rare besides stall vs stall. It's really not that bad, and it can be pretty cool and intense like this one.
Are you not enticed by a string of hard 50/50s followed by an RNG comeback? Tbf I didn't hate the analysis, there were intricacies to be pointed out about how the stall worked but the player choices boiled down to praying they got more 50/50s right than wrong in the few turns where it actually mattered, not the most hype thing
this kind of game is much more fun to watch if you imagine the two players leaned all the way into their monitors absolutely locked in
AHAHAH yeah
This match is like L and Light playing tennis.
this kind of game is never fun to watch, but this helps a little
@@InkSheep27i thought about the scene with L and the Chips
All that to live ice beam anyways LMAO
All that for a drop of blood 🩸
sad trombone moment
you saved me a good ten minutes!
@@YoshiMario69 I wish I didn't watch this video first...
Spoiled 😭
I think I'd legit kill myself if I spent like 80 turns positioning just to not pick up the KO
Unnecessary; Tornadus will do it for you.
Now i need a 15 hour commentary by BKC
A BKC and Ryan Gosling commentary and analysis
Tor Baap = Your Dad
Tor Kawaii Apu = Your Kawaii Sister
Yo Bhai Ami Tor kawaii Apu clefable dekhai video dekhsi
😭 🙏 didn't even know Bangladeshi showdown players existed other than me till now
ironically, their genders are reversed
@@Sonatismmeans u just didn't look into the right places
But what about Tor Nadus?
Who would win, a 140 base SpAtk, 90 BP, 4x effective attack; or a 75 base hp 75 base SpDef mon?
Crazy that gliscor lives that hit
What little offensive investment + lack of STAB does to a mfer with Max Max investment
This is why gliscor is a wonderful pokemon
@@gliscorpropagandaaccount1764 counter argument: swinub
@@ThePotatoTechnique any variety of utility depending on gen
Zero spatk investment on spatk neutral nature mega latias Vs. 252/252 hp/spdef gliscor is still a 56.3% chance to OHKO with ice beam. If latias was modest it would be guaranteed.
Over 70 turns for one ice beam roll
Saving time for future viewers
the video was way more entertaining and informative
worth it imo
Basically they're waiting to flip a coin
Its alot more complex than that
Yeah, but noris is trying to avoid the coin flip all together.
The names on the bangladesh team sides are so funny once you understand what they mean.
I saw your dad and your cute sister but what are the other ones
@@morganbush7775 skc is short for sala khankir chele, which can be translated into you damn son of a prostitute
Oh the Pokémon just reliazed
Skc does ring any bells
@@ariace3602 it stands for sala khankir chele aka prostitute's son
spends a bunch of turns positioning, gets the reads correct, misses the range and loses
I can't figure out why the positioning mattered. It literally all came down to getting latios in on a hard gliscor switch which he could have done like 12 times in the few minutes I watched. It always came down to that ice beam roll so I can't understand why the time waste.
@@rossstrickland1722 Perazoa dedicated his smogon career to stall. He will wait as long as possible before engaging in an attempt to frustrate the opponent. He also always waits for the last second on the timer to make his plays. J0ris, on the other hand, was trying to avoid the coinflip if possible, because he'd rather have 100% chance of winning than hypothetically 50%. So that's why it got delayed for so long.
@@goldenarmour7975 I mean I guess but normally you want to frustrate your opponent so they make a play that benefits you. Here there wasn’t an option for that as the one play he needed presented itself many times in the hard switch to gliscor. Actually looking back, his best opportunity came when torn hard switched to gliscor on a t wave from clefable. He wasn’t full on switch in and after entry chip he healed to 97%. If he had gone Latios on this switch he increases his chance to hit the range. This was mathematically the best play and he just missed it because he stalled too long.
Note that Perazoa is waiting until the last seconds to make his play every time, blud has dedicated his soul to stall
When I closed the game I never expected it to end up like this, damn
fastest oras ou game
It's SuMo isn't it? That's a Toxapex on Joris's team.
Fastest gen 8 game
Stall v stall... a tale as old as time
Neither are stall, you're just a 1400 pleb
this is not stall though.
U have CM Latias as a wincon, Z Tornadus and SD gliscor on one side and trapper Heatran, CM Reunicles and CM Latias on the other side.
This is a balance on balance game.
@mangosteak yea u righ
Do low ladder players call anything slightly bulky stall?
10:06 bros brain was fried after watching this long ahh battle
This was a nail biter thanks freezai
I can't wait for the shakespearean essay the losing side is going to write
Unfortunate (...)
“ok buckle in” is a goated intro
Yo, love the World cup coverage
Your videos on stall have made me appreciate Stall a lot more. I usually play something between Balance and Bulky Offense, but a few of my recent end games resulted in PP Stalling as a win con. Because of your video on the thousand turn stall battle, i was able to appreciate the end game more and play it out better. Thanks! Subscribed!
stall is an inherently disrespectful playstyle that only exists to annoy the other player and waste their time
@@cooldud7071you making this comment on a video about stall is inherently disrespectful and a waste of everyone's time. And yet here you are anyway
@@cooldud7071 this is a competitive format, stall exists to attempt to win games not to annoy the other player
@@user-hl1lb4tt2g attempting to win by annoying the other player, you mean?
@@09stir found the stall player
As the great funnyVileplume aka jeffyjeff once said in his "the ultimate pokemon showdown" song
"gliscor who never fucking dies"
I love how he’s analysing things before they happen lol
thank you for sparing us from the first 167 turns
Ain no way dat guy named him" tor kawai apu" 😭 it means ur cute sister
I wonder how this game would have gone if skarmory had boots. Or it had defog
Woulda got knocked anyways. Defog sounds cool at first but defog + spikes on the same set can be inefficient
Is there a number of turns limit to the game?
becuase if not Theoratically latios could have much better odds for getting in on Tliscor than getting hit by Tornadorus
since tornadorus has finite chances to catch latios getting in
out of inifinite numbers of turns.
But that isn't the case since for that Perazoa needs to switch aswell endlessly between skarmory and clefable
in order to not lose pp and if he does switches between them he need to use roost since the rocks damage
so they are both on timer.
It is a battle with clear win condition with taking chances,for both sides,and if they don't take the chances one of them will lose from pp(the real timer).
There is a 1000 turn limit, so an infinite game state cannot be acheived.
Welcome back to why Regenerator should be nerfed to 15%.
This is awesome, please make more like this Freezai
I get there’s something to be said about “if he didn’t EV right then that’s a mistake and he should have lost” but maaaaan he played the lati perfect and wasn’t rewarded, that’s so tragic
I actually love seeing endgames where pp actually matters, since we don't usually think much about pp while playing, and it leads to interesting mindgames. I'm glad we got to see such an endgame play out in a world cup match!
PP only matters if it's 5, then it's everything to our monkey brains
i run ice fang on dondozo because it’s actually dozo’s best ice move (better than avalanche in terms of utility and stall potential) and is just flat out a great move for rest sleep talk stall due to its freeze chance
now, why it’s run on gliscor is a complete mystery to me
I really dont understand what benefit mega latias gets from not maxing SpA, considering it has 140 base
This was pretty sick
Bro, 240 turns of match is insane, i normally hate to play matches that i bypass the 70th turn
les go team India!!!
would latios have won if gliscor wasn't danced up when it lived the ice beam?
easily, it only did 21 on the first switch
I believe latios still loses as you torn can take one ice beam on a switch and then force latios out while u-turning. At that point roost on clef and if they switch latios back in you ice fang into their roosts.
I am watching this because of the tele-ADR game
Is this peak pokemon gameplay?
ah yes, 16 pp healing moves, the trenches
I feel like minute 3:45 turn 184 i believe gliscor could have EQ'd since skarmory was likely to roost
Only if Skarmory was faster, which is very unlikely
@@victordeluca7360 It did move first that turn at least if i remember correctly
"ABR isn't switching just for fun"
Moral of the video : Gliscor is the GOAT .
Imagine spending 239 turns worth of your time only to get screwed by what looked like a low roll
What I wouldn’t give for Pokémon to be less defense based…….
And to think people would willingly do all this instead of talking to women
Item: (Exists)
this is fucking crazy
Why did he not try and fish knock on the rocky helmet?
Score didn't have knock and they switched to clef on every torn (not that scarm mattered)
"Singles is just more interesting than vgc"
Singles in question:
I’m beginning to think I don’t understand what Freezai means when he says a switch is “hard”
Hard switching is just switching without using a move like u turn volt switch or chilly reception
It’s not a hard set definition but it typically means bringing something in without any sort of advantage or set up.
I.e, no u-turn, not being a hard wall, no sacrifice, not trying to catch a forced switch, that would constitute a hard switch.
What format is this game? 16 roost pp?
Gen 7 OU most likely, I don't remember if the Lati twins' mega forms were Ubers or not
@@horodoomwolf They weren't, Latios specifically was actually less used than its base form, because as an offensive mon it preferred being either faster with scarf or stronger with Life Orb and you saved the mega slot for something else. Latias-Mega (which is being used here) was somewhat of a late discovery and it actually took advantage of the extra bulk to play as a calm mind sweeper.
Perazoa made correct decisions and good predictions and still lost to RNG
funniest freezai video
Why couldn’t he heat wave the skarm?
Ifall he tried to heat wave the Skarmory, but Pakistan switched to Clefable, he would waste heat wave PP. If that happened enough times, heat wave would no longer be an option, and skarmory could stay in scott free.
GLISCOR MY GOAT
That’s why singles isn’t interesting to a lot of people.
This should have been sped up so much more
He was commentating it live so it couldn’t have been sped up
@@quantumchaos7549 he literally speeds up parts of the video. Did you even watch the whole thing?
Also crazy game lmaoo
This is insane
India: 1
Bangladesh: 0
🫡
Meanwhile in the NAIC...
all this complexity just for it to be completely meaningless most of the time because of accuracy and crits. really cant understand pro pokemon players
I can understand them. To play like this competitively, here are the steps you have to take:
- Not value your opponents time
- Not value *your own* time
- Be the luckiest player on Earth and just don't get critically hit
- Play with the most outrageous Pokémon designed for this style (Toxapex, Gliscor, Skarmory, Corviknight, Clefable, Heatran, Latias, Gothitelle, Ferrothorn, Blissey, there's more)
I think congratulations. You've become a walking waste of time at parties and tournaments in 4 simple steps.
He should have ice beamed when he got the first roost agains gliscor
No, if Joris lost the gliscor, he lost the game, and if latias did ice beam into torn, it was a loss. Roost into ice fang was the most logical play, because roosting is the middle ground, even if Joris predicts the roost, he still ends up in a worse position than last turn. A bad player would’ve ice beamed and won, but his play would’ve been bad.
@@Ebpeebahe only lost if latias could switch back in on a paralysed torn. If they just Ice beam Into glider initially they lose as latios Is to low to switch back in after toxic dmg so tornadoes can just kill verything. Well assuming torn jas the pp to kill clef thoroughly 8 soft-boiled. Also Ice beam didn't kill anyway so they always lost irrelavent of when they had used it.
Classic Gen 6
This is gen 7
Bangladesh!!!!!!!!!!!!
is this 6th or 7th gen?
Gen 7
Toxapex is there
I know this is a really hot take, but stall is my favourite playstyle. I understand why people hate it. When you're losing to it, it feels like the game is entirely hopeless and that the next 75 turns are a waste of time. But for me I love it because if you make a mistake and your defensive core breaks, you get punished super hard. And you have to be consistent in not making mistakes, not making too many incorrect reads, over the course of a very long game. You need to plan in advance which of the opponent's Pokemon will go down first, and thus which of your Pokemon you can afford to lose as the game goes on. And many teams love to bring Trick + Choice item, meaning you have to predict whether thats the set the opponent is running, and predictively switch into which Pokemon you can afford to have crippled by the Choice item. Not to mention the fact that you can't always just be sitting around doing nothing forever. If your opponent keeps attacking, they will eventually crit. So you also have to do some probability management in minimising your risk of getting crit by not just letting your opponent keep attacking. And when playing against stall I enjoy trying to find the weak points in their defense as well as using probability management as I fish for crits. Of course it helps that I have an unreasonable amount of patience and a fondness for probability management. And I know most people hate stall. I'm not trying to convince anyone to enjoy stall, just thought I'd offer a different perspective on stall. Also if you read all this and you aren't already, make sure to subscribe to Freezai.
this is almost as boring to read as stall is to watch
Tld fking read@@inmanis2924
I really like stall as a team style but I mostly don't enjoy PP stalls. It's fun when either the stall manages to wear down and neutralise the opposing wincons or the opponent manages to break through your centerpieces. Just watching the PP number go down not so much usually, though the recent nerf to recovery moves' PP makes it more bearable. Luckily it's not that common in general anyway
Stall matchup is fun for the first 20 turns
As an offense player there is nothing I enjoy more than going up against a stall team and managing to locate and break through their weakest link and use the foothold to dismantle the rest of their structure until they can no longer function. Nothing like getting the knock off or will-o-wisp onto a gliscor before its orb activates and denying it regen. It is so satisfying
Let's go gliscor W
aint that some bs. Just makes skill completely irrelevant when luck decides the winner anyway.
Truuuuuuuuuu That's why Pokémon battling has become such a turn off. That and power creep being absolutely insane. A dog that can have 2-and-half times its speed with a 300 base power STAB move if everybody else is dead? Better have a Normal type.
Oh wait what's that? They invented an ability that does that to ALL of its moves? AND IT LEARNS SUCKER PUNCH? *AND IT'S STEEL TYPE SO YOU CAN'T EVEN POISON IT!?*
Dah yeah game so fair game thanks GameFreak. 😐
And people say stall is fun
that was interesting
Stall is so boring
womp womp
@@manee2412F you mean "womp womp"?? He's right.
nail biter for sure
Yeah stall is cool and everything, but have yall ever tried to get a girl to like you...? 🤔🧐
0 / 2 so far. Not super hard
Good sport soyboy: "GGWP, that was a nailbiter"
Salt miner chad: "gg ez no re"
This is why I prefer the doubles format, you're actually incentivised to do something rather than just switch and do nothing else for 4 and half hours straight over 1000 turns
Switching should have like 32pp per pokemon or something to prevent boring as shit stall like this
Lmao
so boring ... its not your fault, they ban all offensive strong mon to encourage stall and dont put limit on turns total with the player inflicting the most total damage wining by default (to punish regen). Its an rpg game, not suited for brain play with all the hax etc.
Remember when even Gliscor themselves was banned because BooHoo people had to use icy wicy moves now:((( ?
You do realise all the bans make stall worse right? The slow wallbreakers like hoopa-u and stuff that stall hates to face are better when offensive mons are banned. So no, stall is not 'boring' and you do not understand how banning works.
That's why i don't like competitive singles. Stall mons and hazards are the worst part to play against.
I mean this is stall vs stall
Idk people complain about it all the time but it's legit cool. It's just 1 strat in mons that's super rare besides stall vs stall. It's really not that bad, and it can be pretty cool and intense like this one.
Kid named mixed dd kyurem
Skill issue
@@Nadid_Dhrabb it's not fun to play against them, everyone agree with that
PP stall is the main reason singles sucks
As much as i like a stall mon. A game going past 100 turns is not ok. Take the total hp % and call it a win with the highest
Even non stall games can go past 100 turns on a consistent basis so it’s quite normal lmao
Pp is a bad mechanic and shouldn’t exist
Tf are you stupid
this is not as crazy of a game as the title implies, please never upload garbage like this ever again
Are you not enticed by a string of hard 50/50s followed by an RNG comeback?
Tbf I didn't hate the analysis, there were intricacies to be pointed out about how the stall worked but the player choices boiled down to praying they got more 50/50s right than wrong in the few turns where it actually mattered, not the most hype thing
@@edoardocaccia6226 that is like the least enticing thing imaginable
@@cooldud7071 yeah I was ironic just in case that missed the mark
@@edoardocaccia6226 I know I was just doubling down
@@cooldud7071 gotcha