Hey, thanks for watching this one! I had a lot of fun working on it as it is a bit different from the type of thing I usually cover. I hope you're doing well, I am currently working on a franchise video and a video on a cult classic game that should hopefully be fun. I can't wait to share them with you soon, thanks again and take care!
Thanks for the video. I look back on slender man as extremely corny but I was really into the “proxy” universe in middle school and I just realized that my profile pic is still one of the characters which is funny
Do more stuff like this, I know slenderman is made up. But it was fun to see his transformation as he gained in popularity. People took him too seriously but he’s one of the greater modern horror beings made. I saw some of the marble hornets and lost track on that. For some reason I thought it as wrapped up and done. Didn’t realize it went on longer than I watched. But it was great.
As someone who was in that Something Awful thread (which was a "use Photoshop to create creepy photos" thread), I remember seeing the 2 pictures, thinking "oooo, that's a good one," then moving on. It's still insane to me that those two photos have had such an enormous impact on the internet and pop culture.
I will always miss those times when the bar of entry to internet fame was so low. Especially these days when every million sub TH-camr has thousands of dollars of equipment and a team of writers, editors etc behind them the audience never sees. It felt so much more for the people by the people than today.
@@josephmatthews7698 in praise in shadows also will always miss that time before he made that awful hitpiece video. now he will be up there with ethanisonline, to be one of the breadtubers that defend pedo to own the right wingers.
I'm a little confused over all this "not fondly remembered" and "embarrassed to have been into". Marble Hornets is extremely fondly remembered, for many reasons, including for the wider mixed universe it spawned.
It's not just with Marble hornets but other online horror media too like creepypastas for example. Sometimes i feel like people are just pretending to hate/be embarassed by awesome online stuff just to get some internet "cool guy" points.
No one is actually embarrassed by liking Marble Hornets. I got the pleasure of watching like the first 10 videos or so when they first came out. Slenderman bending over to look through the blinds was fucking creepy as hell. I was hooked from then on. I still believe it was the trigger for me getting into horror. I still hate jump scares with every fiber of my being, but nothing gets me more excited when horror media nails the dread. It's the fucking best.
Yeah it… really reeks of covering to me, lol I love telling people about the Slenderverse, *_especially_* with stuff like Skinamarink gaining traction.
Nah. Plenty of people are like me. This series ruined the idea of slender man for many people. Simply cuz even this series didn't know what it wanted to be
I'll never forget being a senior in high school when Slenderman dropped and I can honestly say, after seeing the pictures and reading what Slender does, made me scared of going outside because my backyard leads right into the woods. I was horrified to go outside and smoke a cigarette, and I'd just stare blindly into the woods. Almost as if he were actually out there.
Holy shit!!! Same deal here, but I was in middle school at the time! I’d almost hate to be left home alone at night specifically out of fear of seeing Slenderman standing against my backyard window before spawning in my home, lol. I thought I was being so stupid and childish for being a middle schooler being scared for something that was fake even in my eyes at the time.
That must have been terrifying. Imagine you’re a Slender Man, minding your business picking berries, and suddenly your lungs are filled with second-hand smoke.
I will always stick by this notion: Even if Marble Hornets didn't have the best acting, or constistant story, or unintentionally funny moments, I respect the shit out of it, and you know why? Because the people who made it were passionate to tell a story, even if they didn't have the money for great effects or props. Real people got in front of a camera and for 84 episodes, they acted. Yes, you could argue some of the acting wasn't very good, but I really don't care, that's still commendable and you can't argue with that. That shit takes guts, and they took a chance. In today's age where internet horror constists of stuff like The Mandela Catologue and other knockoff, low effort, over saturated analog series with shitty attempts at jumpscares, I greatly miss when people like Troy and Joseph actually put effort into creating something genuine and real. I'll take some guy in a mask in the middle of the woods in the dead of night, over a pop-up of a PNG with a dumb face and annoying static playing over it. Series like Marble Hornets and EverymanHYRBID (and even tho its creator is a piece of shit, TribeTwelve is still good) are the golden age of internet horror. We've been in the dark ages ever since they ended. No one puts effort into it like they did anymore, and that's sad. Like it or not, there was something special about MH, TT, and EMH that's been lost to time.
People are so quick to judge the “quality” of a media product when they themselves know next to nothing about it or would never have the guts to do it themselves. Marble Hornets is amazing because it was a personal passion project that had an engaging plot, regardless of acting or plot. It was a kind of creativity that we hadn’t really seen before. Really, I think it’s one of the foundational products of the genre and I admire their work! I can’t imagine creating something even half as good as this.
Haven’t watched yet but MH earns so much of its atmosphere due to how restrained it is. Even towards the very end you rarely get ‘big scares’ or direct views of Slenderman and therefore it kept the mystery going right through. As opposed to a lot of other material based on Slenderman that was coming out at the time. Half those series seemed to think if they didn’t put a scary thing in front of the camera every 5 seconds or an incredibly long and convoluted lore dump the viewer would get bored.
There are definitely frustrating videos late-series where this doesn't work out well. It's a "Sitting through a 10 minute long shakey cam video of an empty building with no dialog, where nothing happens, followed by the words, 'Guess I'll try again tomorrow'" kind of frustrating.
I think it’s so important in most horror - but especially with Slender - to not show the full monster for more than either a quick flash or a blurry scene. Being able to see the creature almost always ruins the experience, because each viewer will have their own picture of the monster inside their head that the actual image can’t possibly live up to. The scariest things are what we create in our minds. For instance, because this movie is fresh in my mind and I’ll rant about it to anyone, M3gan looked SO STUPID because we’d seen her constantly throughout the whole movie, and seeing her movement when she was supposed to be scary was just like “…ok? She was moving like a doll before, but why are we now supposed to be scared of this extremely human body with a mask on? Why is she running on all fours? Why is she randomly dancing in a hallway?” It was very “HEY GUYS THIS IS SCARY STUFF PEOPLE ARE SCARED OF DOLLS LOOK AT THIS SCARY DOLL DOING SCARY STUFF LOLOLOL”. Give me blur and shake over that any day.
@@CodeNameX001 I have the same issue with EverymanHybrid. It should have ended halfway through, because the second half was just The Vince and Habit show, with really nothing happening.
@@caittails the second half is actually the most important part of that series. Watch the video "Unpacking the Psychology of EverymanHYBRID" by Jonah Bear.
@@CodeNameX001 Those episodes are weaker on rewatch, but I remember being tense as hell on first viewing, because I kept expecting there to be something.
I had to study Marble Hornets in grad school when I went to Manchester Uni in 2017. We examined it as part of the 21st century Gothic. I ended up writing my master's thesis on Metroidvania, but always enjoyed this series. Thank you for covering it so extensively! :)
I really appreciate you bringing up the topic of authorship in relation to internet horror communities, in particular the case of the Sirenhead. I can't even begin to imagine how distressing it must have been for the creator to not only see this unfold but to constantly fight for their rights to the character. The self reflection on how works like this very video essay might further contribute to taking advantage of the original creators for monetary gain is a nice touch, not only to give credibility to the essay itself by acknowledging the ethical side, but also to get a glimpse of the person behind the work and what's important to them personally.
The Homestuck horns poking in frame at 1:10:50 gave me more of a Jumpscare than the entire Marble Hornets backlog lol. Wonderful video, thanks for all your good work!
I think theres a difference between Sirenhead and Slenderman / the backrooms as IPs. Sirenhead was from the start a specific character with well defined characteristics by the creator. The backrooms and slenderman were just vague ideas, a couple of lines or images that were then built on by many other people to make them into what they are today. Marble Hornets, slender the 8 pages and many other things made slenderman into what it is, and Kane Pixels and a huge number of other collaborators filled in the backrooms lore (technically Kane doesn't even follow the established lore for backrooms and his work is incredibly different from any other backrooms content). Meanwhile Sirenhead is and always has been Hendersons work, and its not had any significant expansion or been made into its own internet folk character, partly due to Henderson fighting to keep it his own.
Hi Zane, I love your channel. I directed and co-wrote 'Beyond The Gates' a few years back and I just wanted to say this was a huge thrill hearing your kind words about our movie. I've loved your videos on horror books, the Batman gothic horror video, Hills Have Eyes and 90s Horror for Kids to name a few. Really appreciate the plug as you're always right on the money in your research and thoughtful takes on whatever you set your sights on covering. I have absolutely no idea if you'll see this comment but I wanted to say thanks and I look forward to your future videos. Thanks, Jackson
Small nitpick: copyright protection doesn't get dissolved if you enforce it inconsistently -- only trademarks can do that; trademarks *must* be registered (while copyrights do not need to be registered), and you can't copyright a character or character attribute (only complete works can be copyrighted, and copyright protection only applies to use of literal pieces of those works, not by influence). These are all common misunderstandings basically because most people don't have a strong understanding of how different kinds of IP protections operate & what kinds of work they can be applied to. (As an example, when somebody uses a cropped version of Trevor Henderson's actual Siren Head drawing, that's a derived work & he can file a civil suit over it, but unless Henderson applies for a trademark, gets it approved, pays for it, and sues everybody who uses a sirenhead-like character, he doesn't have any control over sirenhead-like characters that other people draw. The number of lawsuits you have to file to retain trademark protection is high, so it doesn't make a lot of financial sense for most people to file trademarks, so characters rarely have any form of IP protection unless they're property of a large company like Disney that can afford to maintain a large stable of trademarks.) IP law rarely corresponds to folk-intuitions about property ownership because it was designed to incentivize certain kinds of behavior in eighteenth century corporations, and really has nothing to do with property.
That whole section was pretty sad. Some dude who doesn't know how the internet OR IP law works screaming into the void and acting insane because he thinks a really tall guy with sirens for a head (not even a wholly original idea) is something he can protect without incredible monetary resources
I have been a follower of Trevor Henderson for a long time and I remember the Sirenhead blowing up and I felt bad for him (and Lou-Ellen who I also follow) because they are small independent creators who struggle with money. I don't tbh care about 'canon' but I do care about small creators being fucked over.
Honestly though as soon as his character was adopted in games and stuff he should have applied for, paid for, and managed a trademark. He didn't so he can't really complain.
@@Medicalguyhe can complain, it is his individual intellectual property which doesn't make it an intangible or collective property like Slenderman is. In fact he doesn't have to do a specific procedure to protect it, it Is automatically his from the very first moment he creates it. Blueprints and media like names and such are what can be copyrighted. But if he created it, it is his. In fact unauthorized used without permission from the original creator is still ilegal and liable for a lawsuit and copyright claim. It is his, he never said it was public or creative commons or any other thing like that. The scp sculptor creator reclaimed his right after years and so they definetely can do that. And if they earn money without his permission, well he can come later to sue them for all the illegal earnings. That's how it works.
I clicked this so fast you wouldn't believe. Thank you for making a video on this underrated treasure trove of a topic! No one talks about the Slenderverse nowadays, but it was the birthplace of such a big part of internet culture that it absolutely deserves to be known. I owe a huge part of my taste in media nowadays to 2009-2015's golden age of Slenderman. This channel is the gift that keeps on giving!
Yeah Wendigoon also like the video so much he follows this guy. too bad praise in shadow's brain got rotted so much by internet politics he created a defamatory hit piece video, in return.
Loved this video, I didn't expect it to go into a larger discussion of artistic ownership in the creepypasta space, but I think that is a great discussion to have and one that isn't at the forefront of most peoples minds at all. Great awareness and insight
Awesome video as always, just want to point out that the victim of the stabbing survived and is alive today. I didn't learn about it until relatively recently and it seems many still assume she died, but no.
It’s not hard to look up if someone lived or not, especially since this particular case was covered so widely during the time it happened. Honestly I’m not shocked to hear that people think that she passed away, considering they don’t bother looking up information more than half the time. This isn’t meant to be rude, just an unfortunate reminder that people have the internet at their fingertips and don’t bother using it.
Okay I have a hot take about this. Those girls 100% tried to murder their friend and that’s atrocious. But they were 12 year old children suffering from active delusions as was proven in court, and they were tried as adults and institutionalized as adults. Their confessions (while true!) were reliant on coercion techniques that shouldn’t have been allowed, and on their waiving of Miranda rights (again, children, actively experiencing delusions, without parental supervision). Even Payton’s mom has said that the girls’ families are experiencing hell. I think the treatment of this case was unethical and bordering on illegal. Especially considering how much more time these girls have already served than some older repeat violent offenders. It’s a backwards situation in every aspect, and shows the absolute disservice our system does children. So glad that Payton survived and recovered, and I hope all three families can heal as much as they can. (OP ik you weren’t even talking about this lol, just tacking on)
I'm not sure about the video's insistence that the seemingly abrupt ending of MH was solely because of the Wisconsin stabbing, it seems very speculative but is stated in an objective manner.
Apparently, the guy who made this video, made a video about conservative horror movies, and dedicated an entire chapter to painting wendigoon as a racist on literally 0 evidence. And from what I've heard, the part about the films was ass aswell. So he probably doesn't know what he's talking about.
@@skvader4187Did you watch the video? If not, are you not doing what you're criticizing them for doing? Jumping to conclusions with no real reason? Not defending them here necessary, I haven't seen anything from them lmao
@@crypt5129 I have seen the video, specifically the beggining about a horror convention, his inability to earn money via youtube, and the hate he got for his "the hills have eyes" analasyis. And I watched the part about Wendigoon which is so catastrophic that it makes flat earthers look like einsteins.
This took a lot of twists and turns that I was not expecting, and I enjoyed every single one of them. I feel like you hit the nail on the head with regard to Marble Hornets and its role in the whole internet urban legend zeitgeist. I remember having very high expectations of when I was in high school, and generally being bored out of my mind actually watching it, but the fact remains that I found it because every site on the internet at the time considered it *the* canonical work of Slenderman fiction. I also really enjoyed the way this video transitioned into ethical discourse about The Internet, where nothing can (theoretically) be deleted and everything is seemingly up for grabs. You get "news sites" monetizing a list of screenshots of a reddit posts about tumblr; you get people making money off narrating peoples' publicly shared unmonetized writing, and you get trends of reacting to reactions about video essays about... peoples reactions. And so on. You made a great case for what a complicated ouroboros this is. I wonder whether we will ever wrangle creative content on the internet into anything resembling fairness for independent artists, but mostly I suspect that the web will just continue morphing into this one big capitalistic marketing machine.
I have to disagree with your conclusion that the Max Headroom incursion was the genesis of analog horror. Sure, it really does kind of fit exactly into what we think of as analog horror today, but it was nearly unknown outside of Chicago for decades and it didn't break into wider internet common knowledge until after the true roots of analog horror had already been laid down. For many, the real starting point of analog horror is the book House of Leaves and I stand by that. Marble Hornets itself took strong influence from the book and since Marble Hornets is widely credited as the one piece of media that kickstarted the movement and spurred so many others to make their own videos and series, then I'd say House of Leaves is placed much more at the bottom of this tree than the Headroom incursion.
I agree strongly with you here. The Max Headroom hijacking was simply an event that occurred at the time, and was until recently, fairly unknown. House of Leaves and the Blair Witch project (released within a few months of each other, interestingly) fulfills the purpose of analog horror. Really good analog horror incorporates different methods of period specific engagement to make the narrative feel real, but does not do so in an overtly complex way that would be typical more of an ARG. The horror is created by the audience being trapped in the role of witnesses/viewers for analog horror VS the role of players/investigators for an ARG. Personally, I feel that HoL was absolutely brilliant to use Johnny as a stand in for both the audience and as a character in his own narrative. It's my favorite book of all time.
I might have to disagree because I heard about the Max Headroom incident when I was a child, and I'm on the other side of the planet. I didn't even know who the character was outside of this event.
I like the points that this video makes about things such as the ethics of using a character online that the creator never gave permission to use, I feel like a video completely on that topic would be a good watch. However, I heavily disagree with a lot of what you said about Marble Hornets itself. I'm surprised that I haven't seen too many comments about it. I completely get liking only season 1. It is a self-contained season, really, and it heavily relies on the spooks. I'm suspecting you were only watching for the spooks, though. Seasons 2 and 3 had a lot of awesome stuff going on as well, and you take too much time to bash on it. It completely makes sense that seasons 2 and 3 had a lot less of the vibes that season 1 had. The seasons were going in a direction that couldn't entirely rely on just Slenderman to scare the audience. I think that was the best decision they made, honestly. The series went from being scared about the monster itself, to being scared about what it does to the people around it. Watching the cast emotionally and mentally devolve as time went on was the most fascinating part of the series. Perhaps thats just me being obsessed with Psychology and analyzing characters, but they really hit the mark in terms of getting the characters to act consistent. Tim is the best example. Throughout the series he is shown to be shifty and you are told multiple times by multiple people that he is not to be trusted. Yet, as the series comes to an end, you emphasize with him. You understand his struggles. You like him much more than Jay, at least, in my case. It was truly fascinating to see him evolve as a character. And the acting? Yeah, it wasn't the best A lister acting by all means, but they were college students. I think they did incredibly well for not knowing too much about acting. You can excuse Alex's acting as his character. His character is awkward yet psychotic, and the bad acting contributes to this in numerous ways. Jay was meant to be infuriating, you're supposed to root for him, yet he makes the stupidest decisions known to mankind. He's also supposed to be awkward in a way, and shifty as well, as he takes a nose-dive into paranoia as the show goes on. And Tim? Look. I am an actor. I have been acting for 6 years now. His big emotional scenes are some of the most realistic outbursts I've seen acted out. Tim, at the very least, went all out for his role. He studied seizures for a while to make sure he accurately acted them out. You *cannot* tell me that he did not have the passion and drive for the character. Oddly enough, the one part I do agree had bad acting was Jessica, despite her being the hired actor for the show. Most people seem to disagree with me on this. I just do not understand what people thought was good about her acting. She was always smiling, despite the situation that was happening in front of her. She can voice act quite well, but she could never get her face to match. It was off putting. It did not match the character. She was quite literally panicking about not being able to remember anything about the last 7 months to Jay, and all the while, she was still smiling for parts of it. It is the only part that took me out of my immersion. I think something that you failed to realize was that this series was never meant to be good. It was meant to be about a bunch of guys dealing with circumstances they know nothing about, mental states that they can't control, and a freaky guy in the corner causing it all. It wasn't meant to the world's best acting, or the world's best camera quality ever. Despite this though, the guys put so much love and passion into the show. Did you even watch the streams that Tim and Alex did a few years ago where they went back and watched the series? They had a lot of fond memories about it. Sure, maybe some of it was driven by money. But, I don't think it was that nefarious. It genuinely seemed like they had an idea, and they wanted to recreate it best as possible with what little money they already had. Making merch and whatnot comes naturally with anything that has a lot of traction behind it. Sure, it broke some people's immersion, but not everyone's immersion Watching it on TH-cam literally this last month was the best experience of my life. I binge-watched the entire series, ToTheArk and all in one day. It was a neat experience, because I had no clue about the twitter accounts or the merch or any of that. So, I went into the series completely blind. It's interesting because now, since it doesn't have much hype around it anymore, you have the ability to just watch it without being aware of the creators, or, you can seek it all out because it is out there. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think the merch and all that had as much of an effect on the series' immersion as you think it did. Sorry for the long rant, I don't know if it makes much sense but I felt the need to defend the series at least a little bit.
Would also like to point out that the entire point about the story ending abruptly made here is wrong. Claiming that it ended abruptly because of the stabbings isn't true at all. At multiple points in time in later interviews and in the Joseph and Tim streams, they mentioned that the ending was planned out way back in the middle of season 2. It is likely a coincidence that they ended the series around the same time the stabbings happened.
@@Cropcircledesigner Exactly! The Operator was creepy and all, but it was the effects that it had on the cast that was the terrifying part. The Operator took normal people with normal struggles and blew them out of proportion, causing them to go down a path that was near impossible to return from. It’s terrifying because it happened slowly, too. If you take the total time spent in canon with this plot, it happened over the span of a couple years. That’s a long time for their lives to be complete messes while they destroy themselves from the inside out. Even better is the fact that while The Operator warped their views and psyches, it was ultimately the characters themselves that caused their own demise. They all had choices and yes those choices were skewed but they did have choices. It’s a situation that I would never want to be in because it’s one where you would never truly know if what you are thinking and how you are acting is really yourself doing it or someone else doing it or influencing it. Very horrifying indeed.
I don't think knowing that Marble Hornets is a a made up show takes away from it at all. Maybe I'm just a big smart man but I never believed what I was watching was real, obviously. Does your enjoyment of Breaking Bad or whatever tv show lower when you know its a fictional story?
I also found it really contradictory that "immersion" was one of the biggest complaints but then he also criticized that they made no statements about the stabbing on the official MH accounts
I feel like Lonelygirl15 was very similar in its aspect of playing to the illusion of reality, at the beginning at least. Though it hasn't had the lasting impact that Marblehornets did nor the emphasis on showing horror. Still, I feel like it should be brought up in some instances where you portray Marblehornets as something wholly unique, like the characters having social media accounts (on Myspace iirc) and the effort to keep it seeming real (at least for 2006).
Honestly - this and Lonelygirl15 are so, SO key to the core of internet "horror" content it's like discussing Frankenstein on Science Fiction or Dracula on gothic horror - they might nor be the first, bit they are SO important and their fingerprints are on so much after their creation that, whether they're good or okay or bad or whatever, is no longer relevant. They are the genre definers. The core parts of a genre that we're only really now coming to grips with and that deserve to be understood, whether they're conventionally good or not. This is modern personal horror, and even if they didn't do the genre well - the fact that they were bad in some areas is where creativity really grew, where people got the chance to think "I can do X better, and I'm going to do exactly that." And whatever else (And I won't lie, the early creators deserved MORE), their failures were the fertile ground that new, better things could grow from. They were Mary Shelly, and they hated it as much as she did.
@@washipuppyI feel like Lonelygirl 15 would have to be something else in the context of the metaphor. I honestly think Candle cove or Ben drowned work better as the precursors to what we see today especially Candle cove since the people who made the original video would go on to make Local 58
I would really love to see you cover more horror like this-i think there's something so fascinating about this period and genre of horror where so much of it is obviously amateurish and yet strikingly effective and haunting.
Alright, I gotta pause at 46:17 to say that, while I agree that we need to get a lot better about crediting people online for the shit they make, bringing up the SCP foundation in that context just feels weird to me. The entire appeal behind the SCP foundation is that it's a massive collaborative fiction effort, where anyone can do whatever they want with the material involved. If you're writing something for the foundation, I thought it was understood that your work was going to be a part of something much larger, and possibly end up in other people's work. Anyway, I'm gonna finish this video now.
This was fantastic. Watching Marble Hornets in real time was such a unique experience that I don't think we'll ever get to relive again. I started just after Entry #5 was released. I was 17 at the time and going through that One Last Summer period with a close group of friends that I've now completely lost touch with. I have so much nostalgia for this revolutionary horror experience.
This really was the defining moment for internet horror. Matter of fact presentation of incredibly bizarre phenomenon. It sort of reflects our own real reactions to insane and terrible thing like mass shootings and wars these days. The things themselves are horrifying, but we are so disconnected from reality that they seem almost banal. I think part of the horror of this genre is that mundanity. That these horrible things happen but how they are just another event, another tragedy, another horror. It all mixes into this numb emptiness permeated by a constant underlying sense of dread. You can't do anything about it, and it doesn't directly affect you anyway. So why bother getting all worked up by it? But that underlying sense of dread still gets to you. You still recognize the horror and it seeps it's way into your everyday life. You never experience it, but you can never escape it.
Seasons 2 and 3 ARE worth watching in my opinion. You must not have done a whole lot of research when crafting your "seasons 2 and 3 were not a passion project which justifies why I think they were bad" narrative because you CAN NOT listen to the dvd commentaries or Tim Sutton's streams of the show from 2020 and honestly come to the conclusion that they weren't passionate about making those entries. I'm not going to debate that season 2 has its flaws that make it a challenge to watch, but season 3 on the other hand is where the show reaches its peaks in aesthetics, acting, production etc and all of my personal favorite moments are from that season as a result (entry 65, entry 72 etc).
I used to watch Marble Hornets as well as other Slender-related TH-cam series back in the day. Slenderverse used to be huge ten years ago, it's a shame it's completely forgotten. It's the OG analog horror and it's still good
I really don't think MH/Slenderverse is completely forgotten, nor is it impact gone either. It's not talked about as much, obviously. That's kinda what happens when time passes and new things come out and gain traction. It was inevitable that it lose its spotlight when the next big thing would begin to trend. There are still new series coming out that have creators crediting MH and other Slender series for giving them some level of inspiration. And videos revisiting the series still pop up every now and then. So, to say it's completely forgotten is just not accurate. It's simply not popular anymore.
OH MY GOD MY DOG BRUNO IS IN THIS VIDEO AT 9:31. I can’t believe a faceapped photo of the rock and my dog combined has changed the internet like it has. I love Bruno and thank you for putting him in this video.
40:40 this isn't true; you're thinking of trademarks, not copyright. You can't really lose copyright by any means other than time, and if it was true, more companies like Valve would've lost copyright over their stuff a long time ago.
The US doesn’t require any author/creator to enforce copyright. It used to require registration, but now you just make the thing and you have a copyright. You only lose it after enough time passes and can choose to enforce your rights as much or as little as you want.
My buddies and I really enjoy your videos. We love the time, love and effort that you pit into them. We usually watch them MULTIPLE times. This one, without watching it yet I can already tell this will be another top shelf video. Thank you for what you do.
I remember discovering the Slenderman mythos via TvTropes. It was at collage, when I’d just moved out form my parents for the first time, and I found it all alone late at night in the library (i’d blagged a keycard so I could work late, I did not work, I doomscroled) and the deep, slow rabbit hole, navigating from one Janky poorly optimised mid naughties web page to the next until finally stumbled upon marble hornets and started watching, eventually realising that I was all alone in a big building, and when I was done I’d have to walk home alone though unfamiliar streets, scared the shit out of me. It to this day has a special place in my heart for just how unnerving it was.
As someone who has posted things online and used to be a part of the creative online community: anonymous posting is usually indicative of people just wanting to get something out of their system without any second thoughts or attachments to the characters, story, imagery, concepts, etc. More often than not in such cases creators don't see anything special in whatever they've created, sometimes even being outright ashamed to be associated with it. But once in awhile a jewel will be "thrown away" like this, that is later discovered, recognised and reworked into something different. And then all of a sudden someone remembers to be the "original author" and whines about how they were wronged by the fellow internet users or big studios, feeling entitled to the money made by others. Reminds me of deadbeat parents, deciding to be out of the picture for the majority of their kid's life, just to miraculously come back when the said kid gets any success whatsoever. Oh how very convenient.
I might be misremembering, but I remember the Marble Hornet's team addressed the stabbing in their Sound Cloud podcast. They mentioned something about them postponing the show for a while
Great video man. I'll hopefully never forget the feeling of watching these as it happened. Such a unique time for the internet. I know we have some stuff that is in the same vein as it now, but nothing will ever capture that moment of time and the stuff created during it. You really had to be there.
44:00 I'm glad you mentioned this, because I have ALWAYS hated what the internet did to The Backrooms. I feel bad for Trevor Henderson. The fact that he got so much hate just for protecting his copyright is unreal.
Dude, I discovered your channel through this video, it was well researched and well done. Why did you ruined it man ? Your latest video was poorly researched and flawed.
Such a shame to see that the Marble Hornets crew not only went under because of the pressures of making a living off of TH-cam, but because of the greed of a single person. Fantastic video as always!
@@pimscrypt the throughline of the video was The Marble Hornets Crew got exactly what they deserved in the end. they infringed another person's IP completely and left them in the dust, and they inturn suffered the same fate. Why do you feel any empathy those them dispite the author of the video presenting them as the opposite?
@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 I'm not entirely sure I agree. The whole reason the Slender Man became such a phenomena was because people were allowed to build upon the mythology in various creative ways. Maybe I'm a little naive, but I don't think the original intent of Marble Hornets was to rip someone off for money, but to interpret and create art based on something the team was genuinely passionate about. I feel like we wound't have the abundance of beloved Lovecraft inspired media if people didn't start like that. But yeah, it's no simple issue I think. I obviously wish that those who created Slender Man, Siren Head and characters like them weren't left in the dust. I wouldn't completely fault the makers of Marble Hornets for making the show though. Again, I might be a little naive. I have mixed feelings about copyright that I feel haven't been fully formed. There are a whole lot of grey areas.
Greed might be too simplistic. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that Troy's actions were taken out of fear, anxiety, and inexperience, rather than simply wanting more than he was due.
This is absolutely excellent. You're younger than I am but significantly more insightful in regards to the horror genre... and that never ceases to piss me off haha Thank you for your work.
As always: a treasure. As an always, as a writer, the influence you gave in each video strikes hard and make me sit in front of a blank page. Thanks and a big congrats from Argentina.
Issue is that Slenderman wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful if it was copyrighted. It was successful because of how accessible it was to make original content for it. It was a gateway for a lot of budding video creators, artists, writers and game designers. Now had Marble Hornets created Slenderman, then maybe that would've been the case, but I still have my doubts. We watched Marble Hornets because we heard talk online about the Slenderman, not the other way around. Its like Kane Pixels Backrooms videos. While those were impressive in their own right, less people would've clicked on it had they not already known what the Backrooms were. And its impact would've been reduced if we knew it was someone's creation and not this thing that could've maybe existed. Its like Local 58. People still loved that (and rightfully so, this was the guy that made Candle Cove), but it wasnt as big as the Backrooms and the guy that made the Backrooms wasnt creative and hard working enough to produce something as big as the Backrooms (hence why they posted the image as an anon on 4chan). You could also argue that this is whole thing is also a sign of just how tapped dry our creative commons is. Characters like Mickey Mouse should already be in the public domain. The fact of the matter is Victor Surge probably wouldnt have came up with something as creative as Marble Hornets by himself, and no one would've made it if he gatekept his creation. We've seen him do Slenderman by himself with the recent Sony film, it was awful. Slenderman just isnt creepy outside the context of unfiction. That all being said: if you're an artist and you think you have something big on your hands, you really should copyright it first. Don't let the internet steal your ideas and run with it. Keep it somewhat closely guarded, and be reasonably careful with allowing fan works. You gotta allow people to express their interest in your work, but you cant let someone try to infringe on your copyright.
Slenderman's creation also owes a debt to The Hollower novels by Mary SanGiovanni and, of course, the Tall Man from Phantasm. About halfway through the video, so apologies if you say this later. Love your work!
Really great video, but would have appreciated text in the bottom corners with attribution to all the creators and clips used. I feel like that would have been more aligned with the ultimate message of the essay.
As someone who saw the internet become the entity it is today, Slenderman seems to be one of the victims of the transformation of the old net in the new profit-driven content machine we experience today. It's makes me a bit sad honestly
Man, I hate to bring this up, but how would our experience of art and internet folklore be if we lived in a different society, like one where money works differently? It sounds to me that the original creators seem more "miffed" that they aren't getting paid, rather than other people creating their own lore. Would love to see what art would look like in a world like Star Trek or something like that...
@@sleepygraves Well, to be honest with you, I was trying to allude to that, without being that upfront about it, haha, because unfortunately, I've been in a lot of online arguments about that kind of thing, but I didn't want to go all in on a video like this. But I think we're among friends here.
I think even without money involved you'd still have plenty of copycats and people paying homage, because that's what humans do when we latch on to something that brings us enjoyment. Probably not to the extent that we see here, but like the video says, how many times has Cinderella been retold? Capitalism just makes it all ugly.
@@RedSpade37 I totally understand, the internet is a hostile place sometimes. here's to good horror and ending capitalism :---) peace and love on planet earth
I totally agree with you, these problems wouldn’t exist if not for people thinking they’re owed money for a simple idea. All people should be able to make whatever art they want even if it is derivative or isn’t based off an idea they alone had.
Thank you for analyzing a subject that I myself haven't felt the need to look back on for some time for the same very reason that I gathered by the end of this documentary. It left me depressed. This era of the internet was so much fun for me and my friends in our early 20s. We firmly believed in it, we leapt into each others arms when a family member unexpectedly opened the front door one night, and we kept our eyes peeled for the unknown. I was happy with the conclusion of the series, but sad for every single development that came after. And that sadness remains, knowing that they made the right thing at the right time, and that was all that really came of it. And it's even more sickening when you see how a single image on the internet became both praised and exploited to the point where major news sources are pointing fingers at the creator to blame for a violent attack. It shows how disconnected the world at large and the internet truly are. Urban legends are fun, but if you make one online, it will instantly be adopted by the masses and will no longer belong to the creator. Also, Resident Evil save themes, Silent Hill soundtracks, Dino Crisis, Lone Survivor, how did you get a hold of my music library?
When it comes to internet ownership, I think a lot of people get into the trap of being essentially an "ideas guy". Its really easy and simple to throw out simple ideas and a few prototypes in a thread somewhere where everyone is discussing fun ideas. But there's a massive gulf between a post saying "hey isn't this a funny idea?" and someone actually make a fully fleshed out film series based on that. Especially when most the ideas weren't really part of the original posting in question. Its just a fun exercise and until someone decides to actually do something with that idea, it doesn't belong to them any more than the person they're replying to, or the person who replies to them expanding on the lore. When it comes to owning "rights", and I don't know if this is legal or just common amongst other internet groups, it typically comes down to what are you actually going to do with it? Was the original owner actually going to produce videos and movies based off their original post? Are they in the process of making something with it? If not, then it really feels more like someone had a vague idea without a fully fleshed out concept, and now they're attempting to claim everything that is somewhat related to it because they called dibs but never intended to do more.
I totally agree with you. I think that this has a lot to do with peoples egos. Like ok you made half baked concept for a lanky ass mf so what? You weren’t gonna do anything with it anyways. I do think that credit should still be given to the person who thought up the concept.
@@Nekoszowa At what point is it no longer an artist's own work? If I'm in a school project and working with 5 people brain storming ideas, but I do nothing but photoshop their ideas together. Is it my sole idea and I get to claim to be the sole author because I "created" it? As an artist myself, it's just really funny seeing people attach so much meaning to what really amounts to something they did in an hour or two for a shitpost. I draw tons of stupid shit I post semi-anonymously online, some of it takes on a life of its own afterwards, most of it just dies out in silence or with a few laughs. They're only butthurt because they want credit for the work other people did because they spent a few minutes in photoshop making something for fun and then when other people put in the work to make it successful, they now demand credit for ALL the work.
I was thinking about Marble Hornets and the early creepypasta age the other day, and then I wake up and your video is in my feed weird. That era was a trip that still gives me a chill from time to time. Watching it now reminds me of poor childhood and listening to music in abandoned buildings.
Beautiful video as always. I appreciate you and your continued efforts to create in spite of the state of the platform. Can't count the amount of times I've rewatched your Strange Haven and Castle Freak videos and basically every work you've uploaded.
i literally just watched a huge documentary on this topic and then i see a video about it from one of my absolute favourite channels pop up! amazing timing :) please know your work means a lot to me. i love it! thank you for putting in this work to give us these interesting videos.
This video is great but the idea that the people behind marble hornets are more responsible for an actual real life person's attempted murder than Victor Surge is really an odd thing to imply.
Rise & Fall, eh? You already sound like Company Man, haha. But seriously, I felt a twinge of excitement when I saw you uploaded this, and I'm looking forward to it!
I think marblehornets might've been a victim of it's own success. The early episodes had enough material for a decent found footage short, but the more expansion they added to the narrative and lore in order to meet the demand for more content, the more weaknesses of the project were revealed. if they'd wrapped it up after the initial run of episodes I think time would be kinder to it.
Excellent video, as always. And what a delight to see Phantasm and Angus Scrimm mentioned in it! Have you ever considered doing a 'Anatomy of a Franchise' video on Phantasm? Those movies aren't nearly talked about enough on the internet, and your channel is the first one that pops into my mind in terms of who I'd like to see tackling that very weird and very unusual (to say the least) franchise.
I started watching Marble Hornets a couple years right the year it had ended, in high school. I'm too young (and not American) to have experienced it as you did, but I remember growing up during Slender Mania, I remember Slender: The Eight Pages and Slender: The Arrival being talked about and popular even in my country of Italy. I remember being extremely fascinated with the concept of Slender Man, falling into the rabbit hole of the various webseries about him. It (and CineFix, fuck Christ) is actually what motivated a brief, foolish passion for filmmaking that basically derailed my life and my career options forever. I wanted to make my own Marble-Hornets-like series (but with an original monster). I was very bitter about it for years and unfortunately learning through your video of the context of awful behavior around the project I don't think I'm going to engage with it again. I have, however, added much of the other analog horror media you talked about, such as Skinamarink. As for the larger conversation you pointed to, about Internet content being "parasitic"...I'm not fully sure that I agree. Sure, react bros and drama channels are parasitic brainrot, looking to exploit and milk a topic as much as they can. And the video essay community has fallen into similar behaviors, as documented by videos like HBomberguy's "Plagiarism and TH-cam". But we live in a capitalist system that unfortunately rewards this exploitative behavior. Your stuff, meanwhile, as that of Maggie Mae Fish, Jessie Gender (HBG too as I mentioned), Dan Olson, Lindsay Ellis, that's much different. It's analysis and criticism, it has an academic, social function. Sure, it's your job. But you (and the community just described) do it in a way that enriches your audience, too.
Commenting to boost the TH-cam algorithm. Love your work IPOS. I’m forever indebted to you for introducing me to Seconds (1966), and for that you will always have a follower in me.
There are some interesting ideas in this video. That being said, it was overall meandering, inaccurate and couldn't really keep a cohesive point and logical through line from topic to topic. After a while, it just felt like a rant video, rather then any kind of essay.
I think since MH finished, it's simply harder for a viewer to digest it all. People binge it now, when the appeal of a weekly upload was where it shined. You never knew if the next upload was going to be a bombshell or a video with not much going on. It had you waiting on edge for something to happen with every upload. Binging kinda kills that vibe.
Yeah, watching it today like a "show" really takes something away from the illusion of "this Jay guy is actually making and uploading these videos to TH-cam in real life" that was a big part of the fun.
I just watched Marble Hornets for the first time, and I thought it was absolutely amazing. Everything seems to work very well together. As horror and as a work of art.
as someone who was a fan of trevor henderson very shortly before siren head blew up, it’s been INSANE to see what’s happened because of it. i remember getting into a heated discussion with an ex of mine when i started seeing all these siren head games raking in profits without even a SINGLE mention of trevor himself. this video was such an eye opener for me for these things like slenderman etc that i would never have thought twice about otherwise as well. very fascinating stuff, awesome vid
I usually really enjoy your content, but this video is just all over the place. There's the copyright issues you seemingly don't know much about, but decided to talk about anyway, section with the HBO doc that felt jarringly out of place, horrible takes on monetisation, and that long winded miserable hate tirade about MH and the guys that created it. The last 30-something minutes especially feels like your personal crusade against MH crew, and it just leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth. Not a fan of this one, but looking forward for whatever's coming out next.
Everything you do on this channel is greatly appreciated. You can always count on me to watch your videos at least twice. They fantastic to listen to while drawing. Thank you
One of the things that made Marble Hornets so eerie and disturbing is that it came out in a time when TH-cam was mostly used by teenagers(myself included) and was just on the rise, just as The Blair Witch Project at release, you just didn't know what to do with what you'd watched. Was it real? Was it entertainment? Was there something hidden just on the corner of that one shot that lingers way too long? They felt like something you shouldn't be watching, or even talking about it.
This was great!! A small thing but I really appreciated that you blurred the faces of the kids in the React footage, especially knowing how badly treated they were by the Fine Bros.
I know it's just the beginning of your video but I can't at all understand saying MH isn't fondly remembered. I do believe it to be strongly written and well made, but can understand criticisms about that. But yeah it's absolutely well remembered.
It's always interesting to me to see how differently people viewed Slenderman. I was a kid when I learned of him, and I was definitely scared of him but also intrigued. As with many other kids at that time who were into creepypastas as a whole (instead of being purely Slenderman focused), I was pretty naïve so I genuinely wasn't sure if Slenderman was fictional or not, but deliberately chose to think of him as real for the thrill of it. Creepypastas were what got me into horror, even though many of the stories were just plain garbage looking back LMAO. Once Slenderman gained lots of popularity and weirder/less scary versions of him were cropping up, instead of soiling my experience it just changed the way I contextualized him. I never watched MH, instead I was seeing content of him made by people who were also younger kids so he ended up getting the classic edgy 2000's coat of paint instead of cosmic horror. He went from an unknowable scary entity that could exist anywhere to this weird, eccentric father-figure who also happens to murder people with his evil murder powers. It's funny seeing the stark divide between the Slenderverse people who would analyze all these nuances and story flaws in MH, meanwhile a bunch of edgy 12 year olds where making up a cinematic creepypasta universe where we all lived in Slenderman's mansion through self-insert characters and essentially played the most convoluted game of house possible where the lore kept shifting through a game of telephone. There wasn't even just Slenderman, but Splendorman, who everyone took seriously as an uncle of sorts. And of course we all shared Jeff the Killer as our collective emo boyfriend. This creepypasta-verse thing was super dumb in comparison to what the slenderverse had going on, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fond memories of the mishmash anything-goes stories that were popular at the time. Of course, I could try and figure out the deeper reasons as to why a bunch of kids gathered around and identified with a bunch of fictional murderers (the killers usually coming from a bad family, they were usually characterized as outcasts, the fact that we were 12 and we thought the idea was epic, ect.) but I think my comment is already wayyy too long, lol! In essence, everything scary becomes mundane in time, so it's always best to cherish those scares, lol! And even when it's not scary anymore, we can still cherish that too. :) 👍👍
OMG, I pray for you buddy. If my reading comprehension didn’t fail me, you seem to be one of the victims of that cringe cult of “slender-family”. I remember finding that dark side of the internet, from a “cool kid” version of the slender man to a literal sexual predator version. That’s some fine eye bleach right there buddy. As a bit of a “reality check” I want to send you best of wishes and lots of good luck cause being a part of that since it’s infancy must have been one hell of a “reality warp”.
@@josetomascamposrobledano4618 Nah it was actually pretty chill where I hung out. I only read OC proxy origin stories, crossover battles, and "father-figure" slenderman stories, lol. I was mentally developed enough at that point to understand that the predatory stories were wrong so I would leave if there was anything even remotely fishy. I don't think it's had any negative impact on me, unlike trying to watch MLP as the target age demographic, ironically. 😂 I think since I was only reading stuff on quiz websites (like Quotev) instead of 'real' fanfic sites, I was only exposed to other kids writing, so there wasn't anything above a pg-13 rating, unless you count really poorly written gore. 😂 I also don't really care if it was "cringe" since just about every internet circle I was around would be considered as cringe. Cringe culture as a whole just isn't something I really buy into though, lol. One man's trash is another man treasure. 🤷 I do feel sorry for all the kids who didn't realize when they were reading a story that actually contained harmful content/ideas. Sadly it's very common for all fandoms to have a surprising amount of content like that. I stopped reading fanfics when I was 13, but in retrospect I do think that hanging out in that weird creepypasta community was positive, since I had fun reading and trying to make my own characters, ended up loving the horror genre, and it actually helped me figure out what makes a good/bad story and got me into analyzing and making my own original stories later on. I just had a lot of fun, lol.
46:02 Can’t disagree with that take more. The SCP Foundation specifically is published with a Creative Commons attribution share-alike license, which allows anyone to make and monetize derivative works so long as they link the source and author of said work. This is by design, to encourage anyone who wants to to make SCP Foundation content and foster a collaborative community of writers and creators, providing credit while avoiding the pitfalls of non-shareable IP in a community of hundreds of writers and thousands of overall creators. The SCP Foundation is only what it is in spirit and body because of that CC-BY-SA license, and would be all the worse without it. While I do respect lou-ellen’s comment is coming from a place of desperation, and think we as a society should eliminate homelessness and food insecurity as a concept (because there’s more food than hungry and empty homes than homeless), I think one shouldn’t publish under CC-BY-SA if one isn’t comfortable with others making and monetizing derivative works (so long as they provide attribution). The great benefit of this is that lou-ellen can also create and monetize derivative works as well, on any SCP Foundation content.
@@icky_sticky_mars There is an implicit argument to that message: that others shouldn't be able to make money from her SCP stories without her giving the ok. "game devs putting my stuff in their games without asking", among others, which is what I wrote my post about, i.e. SCP Foundation was specifically licensed to allow anyone to make money off of SCP content without having to consult the original creators, so long as they attribute to the creator, and it should remain that way because that's how the SCP Foundation got to be the community that it is.
40:25 Uhhh...what are you basing this on? You can be selective as to who can and cannot have access to your own copyrighted media without risk of losing your copyright. You may be mixing copyright law up with trademark law. Both are legally recognized intellectual property but they each play by different rules.
There's a weird amount of (I think) at least half-wrong info about copyright in here, followed by weird lack of understanding of character traits and design. Copyright holders don't have to actively pursue legal protection for their works, they hold protection rights to their work from the second they create it in a tangible/perceivable form. Meaning that the original concept of Slenderman would belong to that guy who made the first photos, done and done. The fact that other things that came before him shared character elements does not detract from how valid that copyright is. Just because Slenderman and Hitman47 both are well dressed bald characters that kill people, certainly doesn't mean that they are the same character or that one has more of a right to exist than the other lol
This was a super interesting video, I really appreciate you discussing the production side and the greater scale implications of this kind of creative content derived from others' works. I never really cared for Marble Hornets but I find its overwhelming impact fascinating all the same
Good video untill about an hour in. you start stating your feelings on the later marble hornets content and stating them factually. that does not sit right with me there are a ton of fans including me of the later stuff even if i agree demystifying the monster was a bad move same problem everyman hybrid faced when trying to explain the firebrand / everyman or tribe 12 with the rake. I get what your going for but it feels really really harsh and sucked me out of the immersion entirely which is why im in the comments typing this out. I did enjoy the explanation of the culture surrounding the videos even if i was aware of most of it.
Really cannot believe Doug Jones was wasted like that. He's a legend as costumed monsters, obviously, but his performance as one of The Gentlemen in Buffy gave me nightmares for months when I was a kid. He could possibly have saved that project had he been given room to do his thing.
When I watched Marble Hornets towards the end of high school/beginning of college, I had never seen anything that scared me in that way before. Anytime I drove at night and saw street lights illuminating benches or signs my thoughts would jump to Slenderman. And I feel the same, nothing has "scared" me in the same way since. I have a horror buff friend who recommends movies and I just WANT to be scared by a movie lol. I avoided Hereditary because I thought it was going to be scary but when I watched, the worst part for me was when the girl had an allergic reaction lol. There are definitely things that creep me out and my favorite horror films are usually unsettling but I don't buy into the new horror blockbusters because I rarely enjoy them at all. I want to be scared, but I want it to be good and follow me
When I first heard about Slenderman in 8th grade (just another kid in the early 2000's with too much internet access lol), I was so scared I was afraid to close my eyes to sleep for a few nights. I got in just as it was catching on, when people were first making fake documentaries about his origins and I had no concept of those being fake so I was legitimately terrified. It was insane. I still have very fond memories of Marble Hornets because of this. The fiction that sprouted out of such a weird urban legend really fueled my dive into horror for the first time.
How you are so dismissive and insulting of a series you are making a retrospective of is beyond me. To insult a series integrity that did so much for the online horror community, all while spouting incorrect information...You should not be making money from this. You got the amount of times the girl was stabbed wrong, you claim the budget is $500 for the first 26 entries (it was the entire series, not the first 26), you credit the end of MH to the stabbings (they delayed an entry and put out a statement, they didn't end it because of this) you call the operator the slenderman, you say that nobody remembers it fondly and that most people are embarrassed now...This tells me all I need to know about how YOU feel about MH, not how fans do. There is still plenty of dedicated fans out there, and I have had the pleasure of interacting with plenty of fans (what I would consider the majority) who look back on MH with fond memories. I am yet to run into someone who doesn't want anything to do with MH. It is beyond disrespectful to MH as a whole to constantly insist upon how bad a series is when *YOU* are making a video about its impact. Fans who see this will know all they need to know in the first five minutes. This information is not hard to find. I tried to get through this, but your hateful attitude about MH and half-truths are too much for me. It seems lots of people in the comments are taking away the same thing I did. No matter how "small" a series is in your eyes, or how old, it has fans. It's so dismissive not only of the creators, but of the people who love it, to constantly remind viewers how bad something is. As of today, there is a plush of the operator available that has sold over 1000 copies. Take the thing you're making a retrospective about more seriously.
I love that every movie reviewer/ media analyst I love is also a fan of skinnamarink. Didn’t know about David lunch sending him a gift though! That’s awesome. Excellent video as always.
I remember watching Season 1 of Stranger Things for the first time. Throughout most of the season, we only get brief glimpses of the Demogorgon and midway through some of the characters describe it as a man with no face. I remember genuinely wondering, "Wait, has this secretly been a Slenderman show the whole time?" That sounds absurd now but remember this was before Stranger Things was a huge franchise. At the time, it was just a totally unknown thing that just showed up on Netflix out of the blue. Also, I just assumed Slenderman was a public domain character, so it was possible for literally anyone to make a Slenderman show if they wanted.
I was a freshman in high school when Marble Hornets was just becoming an online presence, and I completely relate to what you said about no other piece of media scaring you like Marble Hornets did. Because that was exactly my experience. No other piece of horror media caused me to experience real, palpable, visceral, paranoia-inducing terror like Marble Hornets did.
I watched Marble Hornets the first time in 2018, well after it was released and still found it very engrossing and effective, I don't know why you're so quick to call it bad. I will say in recommendation to other late comers to watch something like NightMind's breakdown of the series as you watch it because it adds context and helps keeps you up with how the ToTheArk videos are meant to happen in conversation with the main channel. And by the end of the series they get really creative with camera work and the limitations of handheld cameras.
I will never forget being a freshman in highschool watching marble hornets with a group of friends in the dark, and then their older sister suddenly throwing open the door and scaring the living shit out of us
The other reason why Angus Scrimm was used, was the original Slenderman pictures were said/rumored to be images of The Tall Man which were edited/face distorted. So bringing him back was a nod to that.
My fave of analogue horror is the This House Has People In It (think that’s the name). The video and the surrounding material is so unsettling Great video. Very informative
Hey, thanks for watching this one! I had a lot of fun working on it as it is a bit different from the type of thing I usually cover. I hope you're doing well, I am currently working on a franchise video and a video on a cult classic game that should hopefully be fun. I can't wait to share them with you soon, thanks again and take care!
Slenderman was a CIA operation./
Big fan of you man can't wait for the next one
Thanks for the video. I look back on slender man as extremely corny but I was really into the “proxy” universe in middle school and I just realized that my profile pic is still one of the characters which is funny
What was the song that you had over the credits?
Do more stuff like this, I know slenderman is made up. But it was fun to see his transformation as he gained in popularity. People took him too seriously but he’s one of the greater modern horror beings made.
I saw some of the marble hornets and lost track on that. For some reason I thought it as wrapped up and done. Didn’t realize it went on longer than I watched. But it was great.
As someone who was in that Something Awful thread (which was a "use Photoshop to create creepy photos" thread), I remember seeing the 2 pictures, thinking "oooo, that's a good one," then moving on.
It's still insane to me that those two photos have had such an enormous impact on the internet and pop culture.
I will always miss those times when the bar of entry to internet fame was so low. Especially these days when every million sub TH-camr has thousands of dollars of equipment and a team of writers, editors etc behind them the audience never sees.
It felt so much more for the people by the people than today.
@@josephmatthews7698 in praise in shadows also will always miss that time before he made that awful hitpiece video. now he will be up there with ethanisonline, to be one of the breadtubers that defend pedo to own the right wingers.
I'm a little confused over all this "not fondly remembered" and "embarrassed to have been into". Marble Hornets is extremely fondly remembered, for many reasons, including for the wider mixed universe it spawned.
It's not just with Marble hornets but other online horror media too like creepypastas for example. Sometimes i feel like people are just pretending to hate/be embarassed by awesome online stuff just to get some internet "cool guy" points.
I commented basically this exact same thing!
No one is actually embarrassed by liking Marble Hornets. I got the pleasure of watching like the first 10 videos or so when they first came out. Slenderman bending over to look through the blinds was fucking creepy as hell. I was hooked from then on.
I still believe it was the trigger for me getting into horror. I still hate jump scares with every fiber of my being, but nothing gets me more excited when horror media nails the dread. It's the fucking best.
Yeah it… really reeks of covering to me, lol
I love telling people about the Slenderverse, *_especially_* with stuff like Skinamarink gaining traction.
Nah. Plenty of people are like me. This series ruined the idea of slender man for many people. Simply cuz even this series didn't know what it wanted to be
I'll never forget being a senior in high school when Slenderman dropped and I can honestly say, after seeing the pictures and reading what Slender does, made me scared of going outside because my backyard leads right into the woods. I was horrified to go outside and smoke a cigarette, and I'd just stare blindly into the woods. Almost as if he were actually out there.
I always thought it was interesting from a urban exploration point of view.
Holy shit!!! Same deal here, but I was in middle school at the time!
I’d almost hate to be left home alone at night specifically out of fear of seeing Slenderman standing against my backyard window before spawning in my home, lol.
I thought I was being so stupid and childish for being a middle schooler being scared for something that was fake even in my eyes at the time.
Don’t do that, the more you think about him the worse he gets.
That must have been terrifying.
Imagine you’re a Slender Man, minding your business picking berries, and suddenly your lungs are filled with second-hand smoke.
@@ShadyLife101 best comment ever. Thank God I quit cigarettes years ago.
I will always stick by this notion: Even if Marble Hornets didn't have the best acting, or constistant story, or unintentionally funny moments, I respect the shit out of it, and you know why? Because the people who made it were passionate to tell a story, even if they didn't have the money for great effects or props. Real people got in front of a camera and for 84 episodes, they acted. Yes, you could argue some of the acting wasn't very good, but I really don't care, that's still commendable and you can't argue with that. That shit takes guts, and they took a chance. In today's age where internet horror constists of stuff like The Mandela Catologue and other knockoff, low effort, over saturated analog series with shitty attempts at jumpscares, I greatly miss when people like Troy and Joseph actually put effort into creating something genuine and real. I'll take some guy in a mask in the middle of the woods in the dead of night, over a pop-up of a PNG with a dumb face and annoying static playing over it. Series like Marble Hornets and EverymanHYRBID (and even tho its creator is a piece of shit, TribeTwelve is still good) are the golden age of internet horror. We've been in the dark ages ever since they ended. No one puts effort into it like they did anymore, and that's sad. Like it or not, there was something special about MH, TT, and EMH that's been lost to time.
People are so quick to judge the “quality” of a media product when they themselves know next to nothing about it or would never have the guts to do it themselves. Marble Hornets is amazing because it was a personal passion project that had an engaging plot, regardless of acting or plot. It was a kind of creativity that we hadn’t really seen before. Really, I think it’s one of the foundational products of the genre and I admire their work! I can’t imagine creating something even half as good as this.
I also agree that many people who are still creators within the genre have almost lost their flair over time. Not everyone, but many.
Haven’t watched yet but MH earns so much of its atmosphere due to how restrained it is. Even towards the very end you rarely get ‘big scares’ or direct views of Slenderman and therefore it kept the mystery going right through.
As opposed to a lot of other material based on Slenderman that was coming out at the time. Half those series seemed to think if they didn’t put a scary thing in front of the camera every 5 seconds or an incredibly long and convoluted lore dump the viewer would get bored.
There are definitely frustrating videos late-series where this doesn't work out well.
It's a "Sitting through a 10 minute long shakey cam video of an empty building with no dialog, where nothing happens, followed by the words, 'Guess I'll try again tomorrow'" kind of frustrating.
I think it’s so important in most horror - but especially with Slender - to not show the full monster for more than either a quick flash or a blurry scene. Being able to see the creature almost always ruins the experience, because each viewer will have their own picture of the monster inside their head that the actual image can’t possibly live up to. The scariest things are what we create in our minds. For instance, because this movie is fresh in my mind and I’ll rant about it to anyone, M3gan looked SO STUPID because we’d seen her constantly throughout the whole movie, and seeing her movement when she was supposed to be scary was just like “…ok? She was moving like a doll before, but why are we now supposed to be scared of this extremely human body with a mask on? Why is she running on all fours? Why is she randomly dancing in a hallway?” It was very “HEY GUYS THIS IS SCARY STUFF PEOPLE ARE SCARED OF DOLLS LOOK AT THIS SCARY DOLL DOING SCARY STUFF LOLOLOL”. Give me blur and shake over that any day.
@@CodeNameX001 I have the same issue with EverymanHybrid. It should have ended halfway through, because the second half was just The Vince and Habit show, with really nothing happening.
@@caittails the second half is actually the most important part of that series. Watch the video "Unpacking the Psychology of EverymanHYBRID" by Jonah Bear.
@@CodeNameX001 Those episodes are weaker on rewatch, but I remember being tense as hell on first viewing, because I kept expecting there to be something.
I had to study Marble Hornets in grad school when I went to Manchester Uni in 2017. We examined it as part of the 21st century Gothic. I ended up writing my master's thesis on Metroidvania, but always enjoyed this series. Thank you for covering it so extensively! :)
I really appreciate you bringing up the topic of authorship in relation to internet horror communities, in particular the case of the Sirenhead. I can't even begin to imagine how distressing it must have been for the creator to not only see this unfold but to constantly fight for their rights to the character. The self reflection on how works like this very video essay might further contribute to taking advantage of the original creators for monetary gain is a nice touch, not only to give credibility to the essay itself by acknowledging the ethical side, but also to get a glimpse of the person behind the work and what's important to them personally.
The Homestuck horns poking in frame at 1:10:50 gave me more of a Jumpscare than the entire Marble Hornets backlog lol. Wonderful video, thanks for all your good work!
I think theres a difference between Sirenhead and Slenderman / the backrooms as IPs. Sirenhead was from the start a specific character with well defined characteristics by the creator.
The backrooms and slenderman were just vague ideas, a couple of lines or images that were then built on by many other people to make them into what they are today.
Marble Hornets, slender the 8 pages and many other things made slenderman into what it is, and Kane Pixels and a huge number of other collaborators filled in the backrooms lore (technically Kane doesn't even follow the established lore for backrooms and his work is incredibly different from any other backrooms content).
Meanwhile Sirenhead is and always has been Hendersons work, and its not had any significant expansion or been made into its own internet folk character, partly due to Henderson fighting to keep it his own.
I think Kane Pixels mostly refers to the Backrooms as "The Complex" when he talks about it.
Hi Zane, I love your channel. I directed and co-wrote 'Beyond The Gates' a few years back and I just wanted to say this was a huge thrill hearing your kind words about our movie. I've loved your videos on horror books, the Batman gothic horror video, Hills Have Eyes and 90s Horror for Kids to name a few. Really appreciate the plug as you're always right on the money in your research and thoughtful takes on whatever you set your sights on covering. I have absolutely no idea if you'll see this comment but I wanted to say thanks and I look forward to your future videos. Thanks, Jackson
My brother and I loved your movie! So cool to see you in the comments here! 😁
@@SvrakaMagpie thank you, Sara! 🙏🏻
Hey, I really enjoyed that film! Got anything new in the works for us?
I love that movie!!
@@pyroguy1104 thank you and yes! Shooting something new this year!
Small nitpick: copyright protection doesn't get dissolved if you enforce it inconsistently -- only trademarks can do that; trademarks *must* be registered (while copyrights do not need to be registered), and you can't copyright a character or character attribute (only complete works can be copyrighted, and copyright protection only applies to use of literal pieces of those works, not by influence). These are all common misunderstandings basically because most people don't have a strong understanding of how different kinds of IP protections operate & what kinds of work they can be applied to. (As an example, when somebody uses a cropped version of Trevor Henderson's actual Siren Head drawing, that's a derived work & he can file a civil suit over it, but unless Henderson applies for a trademark, gets it approved, pays for it, and sues everybody who uses a sirenhead-like character, he doesn't have any control over sirenhead-like characters that other people draw. The number of lawsuits you have to file to retain trademark protection is high, so it doesn't make a lot of financial sense for most people to file trademarks, so characters rarely have any form of IP protection unless they're property of a large company like Disney that can afford to maintain a large stable of trademarks.) IP law rarely corresponds to folk-intuitions about property ownership because it was designed to incentivize certain kinds of behavior in eighteenth century corporations, and really has nothing to do with property.
I imagine it would be pretty hard to get people to believe in folk-horror creature Slender Man(TM).
That whole section was pretty sad. Some dude who doesn't know how the internet OR IP law works screaming into the void and acting insane because he thinks a really tall guy with sirens for a head (not even a wholly original idea) is something he can protect without incredible monetary resources
I have been a follower of Trevor Henderson for a long time and I remember the Sirenhead blowing up and I felt bad for him (and Lou-Ellen who I also follow) because they are small independent creators who struggle with money. I don't tbh care about 'canon' but I do care about small creators being fucked over.
Honestly though as soon as his character was adopted in games and stuff he should have applied for, paid for, and managed a trademark. He didn't so he can't really complain.
@@Medicalguy What part of "creators who struggle with money" did you not understand?
@@thefurry7165 if they struggle with money then they should be more attentive where they put their unprotected works.
@@Medicalguyhe can complain, it is his individual intellectual property which doesn't make it an intangible or collective property like Slenderman is. In fact he doesn't have to do a specific procedure to protect it, it Is automatically his from the very first moment he creates it. Blueprints and media like names and such are what can be copyrighted. But if he created it, it is his.
In fact unauthorized used without permission from the original creator is still ilegal and liable for a lawsuit and copyright claim. It is his, he never said it was public or creative commons or any other thing like that. The scp sculptor creator reclaimed his right after years and so they definetely can do that. And if they earn money without his permission, well he can come later to sue them for all the illegal earnings. That's how it works.
@@houndrysmagolyteofhope4661 If he had a trademark, sure. But he doesn't.
I clicked this so fast you wouldn't believe. Thank you for making a video on this underrated treasure trove of a topic! No one talks about the Slenderverse nowadays, but it was the birthplace of such a big part of internet culture that it absolutely deserves to be known. I owe a huge part of my taste in media nowadays to 2009-2015's golden age of Slenderman. This channel is the gift that keeps on giving!
Tribe Twelve was one of the few remnants of this era that lasted quite long. Shame that the creator had to go ruin his reputation like that though
As usual assholes on the internet destroyed something that was just ok. Thanks open source.
Yeah Wendigoon also like the video so much he follows this guy. too bad praise in shadow's brain got rotted so much by internet politics he created a defamatory hit piece video, in return.
@@rollingvice Did he delete it? I've seen 2 people mention it but that's it
@@Emiturbina people say he delete it. but my guess he privated it. because people that have the link could still see it.
This video is both weirdly dismissive and praising of Marble Hornets. I'm 30 now and I'm definitely not embarrassed of being a fan.
Loved this video, I didn't expect it to go into a larger discussion of artistic ownership in the creepypasta space, but I think that is a great discussion to have and one that isn't at the forefront of most peoples minds at all. Great awareness and insight
Awesome video as always, just want to point out that the victim of the stabbing survived and is alive today. I didn't learn about it until relatively recently and it seems many still assume she died, but no.
It’s not hard to look up if someone lived or not, especially since this particular case was covered so widely during the time it happened. Honestly I’m not shocked to hear that people think that she passed away, considering they don’t bother looking up information more than half the time. This isn’t meant to be rude, just an unfortunate reminder that people have the internet at their fingertips and don’t bother using it.
Okay I have a hot take about this. Those girls 100% tried to murder their friend and that’s atrocious. But they were 12 year old children suffering from active delusions as was proven in court, and they were tried as adults and institutionalized as adults. Their confessions (while true!) were reliant on coercion techniques that shouldn’t have been allowed, and on their waiving of Miranda rights (again, children, actively experiencing delusions, without parental supervision). Even Payton’s mom has said that the girls’ families are experiencing hell. I think the treatment of this case was unethical and bordering on illegal. Especially considering how much more time these girls have already served than some older repeat violent offenders. It’s a backwards situation in every aspect, and shows the absolute disservice our system does children. So glad that Payton survived and recovered, and I hope all three families can heal as much as they can.
(OP ik you weren’t even talking about this lol, just tacking on)
@@InternallyInarticulate nah they simply only wanted the shock and moved on from that. It isn't someone they know.
I'm not sure about the video's insistence that the seemingly abrupt ending of MH was solely because of the Wisconsin stabbing, it seems very speculative but is stated in an objective manner.
I’m pretty sure the MH crew had plan that ending before the stabbings even happened…
@@faxprinter6291 yeah, and to me the abruptness of the ending felt like the whole point
Apparently, the guy who made this video, made a video about conservative horror movies, and dedicated an entire chapter to painting wendigoon as a racist on literally 0 evidence. And from what I've heard, the part about the films was ass aswell. So he probably doesn't know what he's talking about.
@@skvader4187Did you watch the video? If not, are you not doing what you're criticizing them for doing? Jumping to conclusions with no real reason? Not defending them here necessary, I haven't seen anything from them lmao
@@crypt5129 I have seen the video, specifically the beggining about a horror convention, his inability to earn money via youtube, and the hate he got for his "the hills have eyes" analasyis. And I watched the part about Wendigoon which is so catastrophic that it makes flat earthers look like einsteins.
This took a lot of twists and turns that I was not expecting, and I enjoyed every single one of them. I feel like you hit the nail on the head with regard to Marble Hornets and its role in the whole internet urban legend zeitgeist. I remember having very high expectations of when I was in high school, and generally being bored out of my mind actually watching it, but the fact remains that I found it because every site on the internet at the time considered it *the* canonical work of Slenderman fiction.
I also really enjoyed the way this video transitioned into ethical discourse about The Internet, where nothing can (theoretically) be deleted and everything is seemingly up for grabs. You get "news sites" monetizing a list of screenshots of a reddit posts about tumblr; you get people making money off narrating peoples' publicly shared unmonetized writing, and you get trends of reacting to reactions about video essays about... peoples reactions. And so on. You made a great case for what a complicated ouroboros this is. I wonder whether we will ever wrangle creative content on the internet into anything resembling fairness for independent artists, but mostly I suspect that the web will just continue morphing into this one big capitalistic marketing machine.
I have to disagree with your conclusion that the Max Headroom incursion was the genesis of analog horror. Sure, it really does kind of fit exactly into what we think of as analog horror today, but it was nearly unknown outside of Chicago for decades and it didn't break into wider internet common knowledge until after the true roots of analog horror had already been laid down. For many, the real starting point of analog horror is the book House of Leaves and I stand by that. Marble Hornets itself took strong influence from the book and since Marble Hornets is widely credited as the one piece of media that kickstarted the movement and spurred so many others to make their own videos and series, then I'd say House of Leaves is placed much more at the bottom of this tree than the Headroom incursion.
I agree strongly with you here. The Max Headroom hijacking was simply an event that occurred at the time, and was until recently, fairly unknown. House of Leaves and the Blair Witch project (released within a few months of each other, interestingly) fulfills the purpose of analog horror. Really good analog horror incorporates different methods of period specific engagement to make the narrative feel real, but does not do so in an overtly complex way that would be typical more of an ARG. The horror is created by the audience being trapped in the role of witnesses/viewers for analog horror VS the role of players/investigators for an ARG.
Personally, I feel that HoL was absolutely brilliant to use Johnny as a stand in for both the audience and as a character in his own narrative. It's my favorite book of all time.
I literally love you right now.
Honestly the only reason I know about the Max Headroom incident is I'm a huge Doctor Who nerd
I might have to disagree because I heard about the Max Headroom incident when I was a child, and I'm on the other side of the planet. I didn't even know who the character was outside of this event.
@@BritBox777 Translated: "My personal experience is the only one that matters." Glad to know the world revolves around you.
3:40 - People don't remember Marble Hornets fondly? I loved it, still do.
Roger Ebert reviewed Marble Hornets positively, the most famous movie critic of all time
Yeah, but he also trashed the masterpiece that's Day of the Dead.
That doesn't really say much though. Roger Ebert had some wild opinions about other movies out there as well.
Who is that?
@@houndrysmagolyteofhope4661 A famous movie critic.
I like the points that this video makes about things such as the ethics of using a character online that the creator never gave permission to use, I feel like a video completely on that topic would be a good watch.
However, I heavily disagree with a lot of what you said about Marble Hornets itself. I'm surprised that I haven't seen too many comments about it.
I completely get liking only season 1. It is a self-contained season, really, and it heavily relies on the spooks. I'm suspecting you were only watching for the spooks, though. Seasons 2 and 3 had a lot of awesome stuff going on as well, and you take too much time to bash on it.
It completely makes sense that seasons 2 and 3 had a lot less of the vibes that season 1 had. The seasons were going in a direction that couldn't entirely rely on just Slenderman to scare the audience. I think that was the best decision they made, honestly. The series went from being scared about the monster itself, to being scared about what it does to the people around it. Watching the cast emotionally and mentally devolve as time went on was the most fascinating part of the series. Perhaps thats just me being obsessed with Psychology and analyzing characters, but they really hit the mark in terms of getting the characters to act consistent. Tim is the best example.
Throughout the series he is shown to be shifty and you are told multiple times by multiple people that he is not to be trusted. Yet, as the series comes to an end, you emphasize with him. You understand his struggles. You like him much more than Jay, at least, in my case. It was truly fascinating to see him evolve as a character.
And the acting? Yeah, it wasn't the best A lister acting by all means, but they were college students. I think they did incredibly well for not knowing too much about acting. You can excuse Alex's acting as his character. His character is awkward yet psychotic, and the bad acting contributes to this in numerous ways. Jay was meant to be infuriating, you're supposed to root for him, yet he makes the stupidest decisions known to mankind. He's also supposed to be awkward in a way, and shifty as well, as he takes a nose-dive into paranoia as the show goes on. And Tim? Look. I am an actor. I have been acting for 6 years now. His big emotional scenes are some of the most realistic outbursts I've seen acted out. Tim, at the very least, went all out for his role. He studied seizures for a while to make sure he accurately acted them out. You *cannot* tell me that he did not have the passion and drive for the character.
Oddly enough, the one part I do agree had bad acting was Jessica, despite her being the hired actor for the show. Most people seem to disagree with me on this. I just do not understand what people thought was good about her acting. She was always smiling, despite the situation that was happening in front of her. She can voice act quite well, but she could never get her face to match. It was off putting. It did not match the character. She was quite literally panicking about not being able to remember anything about the last 7 months to Jay, and all the while, she was still smiling for parts of it. It is the only part that took me out of my immersion.
I think something that you failed to realize was that this series was never meant to be good. It was meant to be about a bunch of guys dealing with circumstances they know nothing about, mental states that they can't control, and a freaky guy in the corner causing it all. It wasn't meant to the world's best acting, or the world's best camera quality ever. Despite this though, the guys put so much love and passion into the show. Did you even watch the streams that Tim and Alex did a few years ago where they went back and watched the series? They had a lot of fond memories about it. Sure, maybe some of it was driven by money. But, I don't think it was that nefarious. It genuinely seemed like they had an idea, and they wanted to recreate it best as possible with what little money they already had. Making merch and whatnot comes naturally with anything that has a lot of traction behind it. Sure, it broke some people's immersion, but not everyone's immersion
Watching it on TH-cam literally this last month was the best experience of my life. I binge-watched the entire series, ToTheArk and all in one day. It was a neat experience, because I had no clue about the twitter accounts or the merch or any of that. So, I went into the series completely blind. It's interesting because now, since it doesn't have much hype around it anymore, you have the ability to just watch it without being aware of the creators, or, you can seek it all out because it is out there. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think the merch and all that had as much of an effect on the series' immersion as you think it did.
Sorry for the long rant, I don't know if it makes much sense but I felt the need to defend the series at least a little bit.
Would also like to point out that the entire point about the story ending abruptly made here is wrong. Claiming that it ended abruptly because of the stabbings isn't true at all. At multiple points in time in later interviews and in the Joseph and Tim streams, they mentioned that the ending was planned out way back in the middle of season 2. It is likely a coincidence that they ended the series around the same time the stabbings happened.
Tim carried Marble Hornets, at least for me. The visual of the monster? Creepy. His impact on Tim? Horrific.
@@Cropcircledesigner Exactly! The Operator was creepy and all, but it was the effects that it had on the cast that was the terrifying part. The Operator took normal people with normal struggles and blew them out of proportion, causing them to go down a path that was near impossible to return from. It’s terrifying because it happened slowly, too. If you take the total time spent in canon with this plot, it happened over the span of a couple years. That’s a long time for their lives to be complete messes while they destroy themselves from the inside out. Even better is the fact that while The Operator warped their views and psyches, it was ultimately the characters themselves that caused their own demise. They all had choices and yes those choices were skewed but they did have choices. It’s a situation that I would never want to be in because it’s one where you would never truly know if what you are thinking and how you are acting is really yourself doing it or someone else doing it or influencing it. Very horrifying indeed.
I don't think knowing that Marble Hornets is a a made up show takes away from it at all. Maybe I'm just a big smart man but I never believed what I was watching was real, obviously. Does your enjoyment of Breaking Bad or whatever tv show lower when you know its a fictional story?
I also found it really contradictory that "immersion" was one of the biggest complaints but then he also criticized that they made no statements about the stabbing on the official MH accounts
I feel like Lonelygirl15 was very similar in its aspect of playing to the illusion of reality, at the beginning at least. Though it hasn't had the lasting impact that Marblehornets did nor the emphasis on showing horror. Still, I feel like it should be brought up in some instances where you portray Marblehornets as something wholly unique, like the characters having social media accounts (on Myspace iirc) and the effort to keep it seeming real (at least for 2006).
Honestly - this and Lonelygirl15 are so, SO key to the core of internet "horror" content it's like discussing Frankenstein on Science Fiction or Dracula on gothic horror - they might nor be the first, bit they are SO important and their fingerprints are on so much after their creation that, whether they're good or okay or bad or whatever, is no longer relevant. They are the genre definers. The core parts of a genre that we're only really now coming to grips with and that deserve to be understood, whether they're conventionally good or not. This is modern personal horror, and even if they didn't do the genre well - the fact that they were bad in some areas is where creativity really grew, where people got the chance to think "I can do X better, and I'm going to do exactly that."
And whatever else (And I won't lie, the early creators deserved MORE), their failures were the fertile ground that new, better things could grow from. They were Mary Shelly, and they hated it as much as she did.
@@washipuppyI feel like Lonelygirl 15 would have to be something else in the context of the metaphor.
I honestly think Candle cove or Ben drowned work better as the precursors to what we see today especially Candle cove since the people who made the original video would go on to make Local 58
I would really love to see you cover more horror like this-i think there's something so fascinating about this period and genre of horror where so much of it is obviously amateurish and yet strikingly effective and haunting.
Alright, I gotta pause at 46:17 to say that, while I agree that we need to get a lot better about crediting people online for the shit they make, bringing up the SCP foundation in that context just feels weird to me. The entire appeal behind the SCP foundation is that it's a massive collaborative fiction effort, where anyone can do whatever they want with the material involved. If you're writing something for the foundation, I thought it was understood that your work was going to be a part of something much larger, and possibly end up in other people's work. Anyway, I'm gonna finish this video now.
That wasn't the point. He was talking about the images and art put into those writings without crediting the original artists.
I also pause at 00:00 so i don't get this guy my watch time.
This was fantastic. Watching Marble Hornets in real time was such a unique experience that I don't think we'll ever get to relive again. I started just after Entry #5 was released. I was 17 at the time and going through that One Last Summer period with a close group of friends that I've now completely lost touch with. I have so much nostalgia for this revolutionary horror experience.
This really was the defining moment for internet horror. Matter of fact presentation of incredibly bizarre phenomenon. It sort of reflects our own real reactions to insane and terrible thing like mass shootings and wars these days. The things themselves are horrifying, but we are so disconnected from reality that they seem almost banal. I think part of the horror of this genre is that mundanity. That these horrible things happen but how they are just another event, another tragedy, another horror. It all mixes into this numb emptiness permeated by a constant underlying sense of dread. You can't do anything about it, and it doesn't directly affect you anyway. So why bother getting all worked up by it? But that underlying sense of dread still gets to you. You still recognize the horror and it seeps it's way into your everyday life. You never experience it, but you can never escape it.
Seasons 2 and 3 ARE worth watching in my opinion. You must not have done a whole lot of research when crafting your "seasons 2 and 3 were not a passion project which justifies why I think they were bad" narrative because you CAN NOT listen to the dvd commentaries or Tim Sutton's streams of the show from 2020 and honestly come to the conclusion that they weren't passionate about making those entries.
I'm not going to debate that season 2 has its flaws that make it a challenge to watch, but season 3 on the other hand is where the show reaches its peaks in aesthetics, acting, production etc and all of my personal favorite moments are from that season as a result (entry 65, entry 72 etc).
100% this, YES!
I used to watch Marble Hornets as well as other Slender-related TH-cam series back in the day. Slenderverse used to be huge ten years ago, it's a shame it's completely forgotten.
It's the OG analog horror and it's still good
It wouldn’t be if they could make a decent movie of slenderman. So much potential but hollywood would mess it up
@@whitedragoness23 I'd say the real life stuff with those girls messed the whole thing up in the first place.
@@RainbowRenegade maybe they killed slenderman :( :(
I really don't think MH/Slenderverse is completely forgotten, nor is it impact gone either. It's not talked about as much, obviously. That's kinda what happens when time passes and new things come out and gain traction. It was inevitable that it lose its spotlight when the next big thing would begin to trend. There are still new series coming out that have creators crediting MH and other Slender series for giving them some level of inspiration. And videos revisiting the series still pop up every now and then. So, to say it's completely forgotten is just not accurate. It's simply not popular anymore.
OH MY GOD MY DOG BRUNO IS IN THIS VIDEO AT 9:31.
I can’t believe a faceapped photo of the rock and my dog combined has changed the internet like it has. I love Bruno and thank you for putting him in this video.
I loved Marble Hornets when I first saw it and I find it charming even now. It was made with care and friendship and that's amazing
40:40 this isn't true; you're thinking of trademarks, not copyright. You can't really lose copyright by any means other than time, and if it was true, more companies like Valve would've lost copyright over their stuff a long time ago.
@@Robocopnik still, has there ever been an instance of someone losing copyright because they let someone else use it?
Not in the US
@@bryancaffrey1887 what do you mean? I'm talking from an American perspective.
The US doesn’t require any author/creator to enforce copyright. It used to require registration, but now you just make the thing and you have a copyright. You only lose it after enough time passes and can choose to enforce your rights as much or as little as you want.
Other places (like the EU) give authors more rights, while some functionally ignore copyright altogether
I was always more of a Tribe 12 guy, but _man_ this was such a formative time for internet culture. Great video!
@@railx I haven't heard anything about behind-the-scenes stuff. What happened?
@@SimplySwayze He tried to exploit his underage female fans, because of course he fucking did.
My buddies and I really enjoy your videos. We love the time, love and effort that you pit into them. We usually watch them MULTIPLE times. This one, without watching it yet I can already tell this will be another top shelf video. Thank you for what you do.
I remember discovering the Slenderman mythos via TvTropes. It was at collage, when I’d just moved out form my parents for the first time, and I found it all alone late at night in the library (i’d blagged a keycard so I could work late, I did not work, I doomscroled) and the deep, slow rabbit hole, navigating from one Janky poorly optimised mid naughties web page to the next until finally stumbled upon marble hornets and started watching, eventually realising that I was all alone in a big building, and when I was done I’d have to walk home alone though unfamiliar streets, scared the shit out of me. It to this day has a special place in my heart for just how unnerving it was.
As someone who has posted things online and used to be a part of the creative online community: anonymous posting is usually indicative of people just wanting to get something out of their system without any second thoughts or attachments to the characters, story, imagery, concepts, etc. More often than not in such cases creators don't see anything special in whatever they've created, sometimes even being outright ashamed to be associated with it.
But once in awhile a jewel will be "thrown away" like this, that is later discovered, recognised and reworked into something different. And then all of a sudden someone remembers to be the "original author" and whines about how they were wronged by the fellow internet users or big studios, feeling entitled to the money made by others. Reminds me of deadbeat parents, deciding to be out of the picture for the majority of their kid's life, just to miraculously come back when the said kid gets any success whatsoever. Oh how very convenient.
I might be misremembering, but I remember the Marble Hornet's team addressed the stabbing in their Sound Cloud podcast. They mentioned something about them postponing the show for a while
how noble of them
@@efnfen what the fuck else did you want them to do? Publicly apologize for something that had literally nothing to do with them?
Yes, they did postpone releasing an episode for a short hiatus after the incident. That old podcast was a lot of fun.
Great video man.
I'll hopefully never forget the feeling of watching these as it happened.
Such a unique time for the internet. I know we have some stuff that is in the same vein as it now, but nothing will ever capture that moment of time and the stuff created during it.
You really had to be there.
The internet is so vast. So many stories in conversation with each other
44:00 I'm glad you mentioned this, because I have ALWAYS hated what the internet did to The Backrooms. I feel bad for Trevor Henderson. The fact that he got so much hate just for protecting his copyright is unreal.
Trevor Henderson didn't make the backrooms
I also feel bad for wendigoon. being a goodie two shoes got him slandered by low testosterone soyjack.
Dude, I discovered your channel through this video, it was well researched and well done. Why did you ruined it man ? Your latest video was poorly researched and flawed.
Such a shame to see that the Marble Hornets crew not only went under because of the pressures of making a living off of TH-cam, but because of the greed of a single person.
Fantastic video as always!
Capitalism destroys art
@@Geospasmic Sure does.
@@pimscrypt the throughline of the video was The Marble Hornets Crew got exactly what they deserved in the end. they infringed another person's IP completely and left them in the dust, and they inturn suffered the same fate. Why do you feel any empathy those them dispite the author of the video presenting them as the opposite?
@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 I'm not entirely sure I agree. The whole reason the Slender Man became such a phenomena was because people were allowed to build upon the mythology in various creative ways. Maybe I'm a little naive, but I don't think the original intent of Marble Hornets was to rip someone off for money, but to interpret and create art based on something the team was genuinely passionate about. I feel like we wound't have the abundance of beloved Lovecraft inspired media if people didn't start like that. But yeah, it's no simple issue I think. I obviously wish that those who created Slender Man, Siren Head and characters like them weren't left in the dust. I wouldn't completely fault the makers of Marble Hornets for making the show though.
Again, I might be a little naive. I have mixed feelings about copyright that I feel haven't been fully formed. There are a whole lot of grey areas.
Greed might be too simplistic. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that Troy's actions were taken out of fear, anxiety, and inexperience, rather than simply wanting more than he was due.
This is absolutely excellent. You're younger than I am but significantly more insightful in regards to the horror genre... and that never ceases to piss me off haha
Thank you for your work.
As always: a treasure. As an always, as a writer, the influence you gave in each video strikes hard and make me sit in front of a blank page. Thanks and a big congrats from Argentina.
Issue is that Slenderman wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful if it was copyrighted. It was successful because of how accessible it was to make original content for it. It was a gateway for a lot of budding video creators, artists, writers and game designers. Now had Marble Hornets created Slenderman, then maybe that would've been the case, but I still have my doubts. We watched Marble Hornets because we heard talk online about the Slenderman, not the other way around. Its like Kane Pixels Backrooms videos. While those were impressive in their own right, less people would've clicked on it had they not already known what the Backrooms were. And its impact would've been reduced if we knew it was someone's creation and not this thing that could've maybe existed. Its like Local 58. People still loved that (and rightfully so, this was the guy that made Candle Cove), but it wasnt as big as the Backrooms and the guy that made the Backrooms wasnt creative and hard working enough to produce something as big as the Backrooms (hence why they posted the image as an anon on 4chan).
You could also argue that this is whole thing is also a sign of just how tapped dry our creative commons is. Characters like Mickey Mouse should already be in the public domain.
The fact of the matter is Victor Surge probably wouldnt have came up with something as creative as Marble Hornets by himself, and no one would've made it if he gatekept his creation. We've seen him do Slenderman by himself with the recent Sony film, it was awful. Slenderman just isnt creepy outside the context of unfiction.
That all being said: if you're an artist and you think you have something big on your hands, you really should copyright it first. Don't let the internet steal your ideas and run with it. Keep it somewhat closely guarded, and be reasonably careful with allowing fan works. You gotta allow people to express their interest in your work, but you cant let someone try to infringe on your copyright.
Slenderman's creation also owes a debt to The Hollower novels by Mary SanGiovanni and, of course, the Tall Man from Phantasm. About halfway through the video, so apologies if you say this later. Love your work!
Really great video, but would have appreciated text in the bottom corners with attribution to all the creators and clips used. I feel like that would have been more aligned with the ultimate message of the essay.
Funny how these things happen.
As someone who saw the internet become the entity it is today, Slenderman seems to be one of the victims of the transformation of the old net in the new profit-driven content machine we experience today. It's makes me a bit sad honestly
things will change again, who knows how - but it WILL be better and worse than now.
Man, I hate to bring this up, but how would our experience of art and internet folklore be if we lived in a different society, like one where money works differently?
It sounds to me that the original creators seem more "miffed" that they aren't getting paid, rather than other people creating their own lore.
Would love to see what art would look like in a world like Star Trek or something like that...
its capitalism my dude, a world free of capitalism would be rich in shared art and folklore
@@sleepygraves Well, to be honest with you, I was trying to allude to that, without being that upfront about it, haha, because unfortunately, I've been in a lot of online arguments about that kind of thing, but I didn't want to go all in on a video like this.
But I think we're among friends here.
I think even without money involved you'd still have plenty of copycats and people paying homage, because that's what humans do when we latch on to something that brings us enjoyment. Probably not to the extent that we see here, but like the video says, how many times has Cinderella been retold? Capitalism just makes it all ugly.
@@RedSpade37 I totally understand, the internet is a hostile place sometimes. here's to good horror and ending capitalism :---) peace and love on planet earth
I totally agree with you, these problems wouldn’t exist if not for people thinking they’re owed money for a simple idea. All people should be able to make whatever art they want even if it is derivative or isn’t based off an idea they alone had.
maybe youre just hanging out with different circles, bc everyone I have talked to about it recall it fondly.
Thank you for analyzing a subject that I myself haven't felt the need to look back on for some time for the same very reason that I gathered by the end of this documentary. It left me depressed. This era of the internet was so much fun for me and my friends in our early 20s. We firmly believed in it, we leapt into each others arms when a family member unexpectedly opened the front door one night, and we kept our eyes peeled for the unknown. I was happy with the conclusion of the series, but sad for every single development that came after. And that sadness remains, knowing that they made the right thing at the right time, and that was all that really came of it. And it's even more sickening when you see how a single image on the internet became both praised and exploited to the point where major news sources are pointing fingers at the creator to blame for a violent attack. It shows how disconnected the world at large and the internet truly are. Urban legends are fun, but if you make one online, it will instantly be adopted by the masses and will no longer belong to the creator.
Also, Resident Evil save themes, Silent Hill soundtracks, Dino Crisis, Lone Survivor, how did you get a hold of my music library?
When it comes to internet ownership, I think a lot of people get into the trap of being essentially an "ideas guy".
Its really easy and simple to throw out simple ideas and a few prototypes in a thread somewhere where everyone is discussing fun ideas.
But there's a massive gulf between a post saying "hey isn't this a funny idea?" and someone actually make a fully fleshed out film series based on that. Especially when most the ideas weren't really part of the original posting in question. Its just a fun exercise and until someone decides to actually do something with that idea, it doesn't belong to them any more than the person they're replying to, or the person who replies to them expanding on the lore.
When it comes to owning "rights", and I don't know if this is legal or just common amongst other internet groups, it typically comes down to what are you actually going to do with it? Was the original owner actually going to produce videos and movies based off their original post? Are they in the process of making something with it?
If not, then it really feels more like someone had a vague idea without a fully fleshed out concept, and now they're attempting to claim everything that is somewhat related to it because they called dibs but never intended to do more.
I totally agree with you. I think that this has a lot to do with peoples egos. Like ok you made half baked concept for a lanky ass mf so what? You weren’t gonna do anything with it anyways. I do think that credit should still be given to the person who thought up the concept.
That's a long rambling for saying "stealing from artists is okay".
@@Nekoszowa At what point is it no longer an artist's own work? If I'm in a school project and working with 5 people brain storming ideas, but I do nothing but photoshop their ideas together. Is it my sole idea and I get to claim to be the sole author because I "created" it?
As an artist myself, it's just really funny seeing people attach so much meaning to what really amounts to something they did in an hour or two for a shitpost. I draw tons of stupid shit I post semi-anonymously online, some of it takes on a life of its own afterwards, most of it just dies out in silence or with a few laughs. They're only butthurt because they want credit for the work other people did because they spent a few minutes in photoshop making something for fun and then when other people put in the work to make it successful, they now demand credit for ALL the work.
I came for a video about slenderman and marble hornets, not a series of rants about intellectual property.
I was thinking about Marble Hornets and the early creepypasta age the other day, and then I wake up and your video is in my feed weird. That era was a trip that still gives me a chill from time to time. Watching it now reminds me of poor childhood and listening to music in abandoned buildings.
Beautiful video as always. I appreciate you and your continued efforts to create in spite of the state of the platform. Can't count the amount of times I've rewatched your Strange Haven and Castle Freak videos and basically every work you've uploaded.
i literally just watched a huge documentary on this topic and then i see a video about it from one of my absolute favourite channels pop up! amazing timing :) please know your work means a lot to me. i love it! thank you for putting in this work to give us these interesting videos.
This video is great but the idea that the people behind marble hornets are more responsible for an actual real life person's attempted murder than Victor Surge is really an odd thing to imply.
Rise & Fall, eh? You already sound like Company Man, haha.
But seriously, I felt a twinge of excitement when I saw you uploaded this, and I'm looking forward to it!
I think marblehornets might've been a victim of it's own success. The early episodes had enough material for a decent found footage short, but the more expansion they added to the narrative and lore in order to meet the demand for more content, the more weaknesses of the project were revealed. if they'd wrapped it up after the initial run of episodes I think time would be kinder to it.
The outro track is To Be Young Again by Holy Wire. It’s actually in the video at 1:29:36 but on a very quick shot and no labelling so easy to miss!
Excellent video, as always. And what a delight to see Phantasm and Angus Scrimm mentioned in it! Have you ever considered doing a 'Anatomy of a Franchise' video on Phantasm? Those movies aren't nearly talked about enough on the internet, and your channel is the first one that pops into my mind in terms of who I'd like to see tackling that very weird and very unusual (to say the least) franchise.
Oh yeah, Phantasm is one of my favorite films of all time and that will definitely be one that I do at some point down the road. Also thanks!
@@InPraiseofShadows It's one of my favorites of all time as well and I 'll make sure to not miss it when it comes up on the channel!
I started watching Marble Hornets a couple years right the year it had ended, in high school. I'm too young (and not American) to have experienced it as you did, but I remember growing up during Slender Mania, I remember Slender: The Eight Pages and Slender: The Arrival being talked about and popular even in my country of Italy. I remember being extremely fascinated with the concept of Slender Man, falling into the rabbit hole of the various webseries about him. It (and CineFix, fuck Christ) is actually what motivated a brief, foolish passion for filmmaking that basically derailed my life and my career options forever. I wanted to make my own Marble-Hornets-like series (but with an original monster). I was very bitter about it for years and unfortunately learning through your video of the context of awful behavior around the project I don't think I'm going to engage with it again. I have, however, added much of the other analog horror media you talked about, such as Skinamarink. As for the larger conversation you pointed to, about Internet content being "parasitic"...I'm not fully sure that I agree. Sure, react bros and drama channels are parasitic brainrot, looking to exploit and milk a topic as much as they can. And the video essay community has fallen into similar behaviors, as documented by videos like HBomberguy's "Plagiarism and TH-cam". But we live in a capitalist system that unfortunately rewards this exploitative behavior. Your stuff, meanwhile, as that of Maggie Mae Fish, Jessie Gender (HBG too as I mentioned), Dan Olson, Lindsay Ellis, that's much different. It's analysis and criticism, it has an academic, social function. Sure, it's your job. But you (and the community just described) do it in a way that enriches your audience, too.
Commenting to boost the TH-cam algorithm. Love your work IPOS. I’m forever indebted to you for introducing me to Seconds (1966), and for that you will always have a follower in me.
Also great new vid man
There are some interesting ideas in this video. That being said, it was overall meandering, inaccurate and couldn't really keep a cohesive point and logical through line from topic to topic. After a while, it just felt like a rant video, rather then any kind of essay.
I think since MH finished, it's simply harder for a viewer to digest it all. People binge it now, when the appeal of a weekly upload was where it shined.
You never knew if the next upload was going to be a bombshell or a video with not much going on. It had you waiting on edge for something to happen with every upload. Binging kinda kills that vibe.
Yeah, watching it today like a "show" really takes something away from the illusion of "this Jay guy is actually making and uploading these videos to TH-cam in real life" that was a big part of the fun.
Finally a new video. You are one of my favorite channels on TH-cam. Keep up the great work
I just watched Marble Hornets for the first time, and I thought it was absolutely amazing. Everything seems to work very well together. As horror and as a work of art.
as someone who was a fan of trevor henderson very shortly before siren head blew up, it’s been INSANE to see what’s happened because of it. i remember getting into a heated discussion with an ex of mine when i started seeing all these siren head games raking in profits without even a SINGLE mention of trevor himself. this video was such an eye opener for me for these things like slenderman etc that i would never have thought twice about otherwise as well. very fascinating stuff, awesome vid
I usually really enjoy your content, but this video is just all over the place. There's the copyright issues you seemingly don't know much about, but decided to talk about anyway, section with the HBO doc that felt jarringly out of place, horrible takes on monetisation, and that long winded miserable hate tirade about MH and the guys that created it. The last 30-something minutes especially feels like your personal crusade against MH crew, and it just leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth.
Not a fan of this one, but looking forward for whatever's coming out next.
Everything you do on this channel is greatly appreciated. You can always count on me to watch your videos at least twice. They fantastic to listen to while drawing. Thank you
You say i shouldn't binge Marble Hornets, but most people who watch your sorta content have watched video essays spanning in the 7 hour range.
One of the things that made Marble Hornets so eerie and disturbing is that it came out in a time when TH-cam was mostly used by teenagers(myself included) and was just on the rise, just as The Blair Witch Project at release, you just didn't know what to do with what you'd watched. Was it real? Was it entertainment? Was there something hidden just on the corner of that one shot that lingers way too long?
They felt like something you shouldn't be watching, or even talking about it.
This was great!! A small thing but I really appreciated that you blurred the faces of the kids in the React footage, especially knowing how badly treated they were by the Fine Bros.
Your videos are some of the best and most thoughtful on youtube. I always get excited to see one of your's in my feed.
I know it's just the beginning of your video but I can't at all understand saying MH isn't fondly remembered. I do believe it to be strongly written and well made, but can understand criticisms about that. But yeah it's absolutely well remembered.
I LOVE Marble Hornets! Thank you so much for doing this! You’re becoming one of my all time favorite TH-camrs
Ooh! A 1-hour video that covers one of my most favorite subjects!
This is going to be _good_ .
It's always interesting to me to see how differently people viewed Slenderman. I was a kid when I learned of him, and I was definitely scared of him but also intrigued. As with many other kids at that time who were into creepypastas as a whole (instead of being purely Slenderman focused), I was pretty naïve so I genuinely wasn't sure if Slenderman was fictional or not, but deliberately chose to think of him as real for the thrill of it. Creepypastas were what got me into horror, even though many of the stories were just plain garbage looking back LMAO.
Once Slenderman gained lots of popularity and weirder/less scary versions of him were cropping up, instead of soiling my experience it just changed the way I contextualized him. I never watched MH, instead I was seeing content of him made by people who were also younger kids so he ended up getting the classic edgy 2000's coat of paint instead of cosmic horror. He went from an unknowable scary entity that could exist anywhere to this weird, eccentric father-figure who also happens to murder people with his evil murder powers. It's funny seeing the stark divide between the Slenderverse people who would analyze all these nuances and story flaws in MH, meanwhile a bunch of edgy 12 year olds where making up a cinematic creepypasta universe where we all lived in Slenderman's mansion through self-insert characters and essentially played the most convoluted game of house possible where the lore kept shifting through a game of telephone. There wasn't even just Slenderman, but Splendorman, who everyone took seriously as an uncle of sorts. And of course we all shared Jeff the Killer as our collective emo boyfriend.
This creepypasta-verse thing was super dumb in comparison to what the slenderverse had going on, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fond memories of the mishmash anything-goes stories that were popular at the time. Of course, I could try and figure out the deeper reasons as to why a bunch of kids gathered around and identified with a bunch of fictional murderers (the killers usually coming from a bad family, they were usually characterized as outcasts, the fact that we were 12 and we thought the idea was epic, ect.) but I think my comment is already wayyy too long, lol!
In essence, everything scary becomes mundane in time, so it's always best to cherish those scares, lol! And even when it's not scary anymore, we can still cherish that too. :) 👍👍
Splendaman the unsuccessfully relative of slenderman
OMG, I pray for you buddy.
If my reading comprehension didn’t fail me, you seem to be one of the victims of that cringe cult of “slender-family”.
I remember finding that dark side of the internet, from a “cool kid” version of the slender man to a literal sexual predator version.
That’s some fine eye bleach right there buddy.
As a bit of a “reality check” I want to send you best of wishes and lots of good luck cause being a part of that since it’s infancy must have been one hell of a “reality warp”.
@@josetomascamposrobledano4618 Nah it was actually pretty chill where I hung out. I only read OC proxy origin stories, crossover battles, and "father-figure" slenderman stories, lol. I was mentally developed enough at that point to understand that the predatory stories were wrong so I would leave if there was anything even remotely fishy. I don't think it's had any negative impact on me, unlike trying to watch MLP as the target age demographic, ironically. 😂 I think since I was only reading stuff on quiz websites (like Quotev) instead of 'real' fanfic sites, I was only exposed to other kids writing, so there wasn't anything above a pg-13 rating, unless you count really poorly written gore. 😂
I also don't really care if it was "cringe" since just about every internet circle I was around would be considered as cringe. Cringe culture as a whole just isn't something I really buy into though, lol. One man's trash is another man treasure. 🤷
I do feel sorry for all the kids who didn't realize when they were reading a story that actually contained harmful content/ideas. Sadly it's very common for all fandoms to have a surprising amount of content like that.
I stopped reading fanfics when I was 13, but in retrospect I do think that hanging out in that weird creepypasta community was positive, since I had fun reading and trying to make my own characters, ended up loving the horror genre, and it actually helped me figure out what makes a good/bad story and got me into analyzing and making my own original stories later on. I just had a lot of fun, lol.
I still read creepypastas and watch videos of people narrating them.
46:02 Can’t disagree with that take more.
The SCP Foundation specifically is published with a Creative Commons attribution share-alike license, which allows anyone to make and monetize derivative works so long as they link the source and author of said work.
This is by design, to encourage anyone who wants to to make SCP Foundation content and foster a collaborative community of writers and creators, providing credit while avoiding the pitfalls of non-shareable IP in a community of hundreds of writers and thousands of overall creators.
The SCP Foundation is only what it is in spirit and body because of that CC-BY-SA license, and would be all the worse without it.
While I do respect lou-ellen’s comment is coming from a place of desperation, and think we as a society should eliminate homelessness and food insecurity as a concept (because there’s more food than hungry and empty homes than homeless), I think one shouldn’t publish under CC-BY-SA if one isn’t comfortable with others making and monetizing derivative works (so long as they provide attribution).
The great benefit of this is that lou-ellen can also create and monetize derivative works as well, on any SCP Foundation content.
its not a take though? its someones personal feelings on an actual experience. lou ellen wasnt calling for any action just expressing disappointment
@@icky_sticky_mars There is an implicit argument to that message: that others shouldn't be able to make money from her SCP stories without her giving the ok. "game devs putting my stuff in their games without asking", among others, which is what I wrote my post about, i.e. SCP Foundation was specifically licensed to allow anyone to make money off of SCP content without having to consult the original creators, so long as they attribute to the creator, and it should remain that way because that's how the SCP Foundation got to be the community that it is.
40:25 Uhhh...what are you basing this on? You can be selective as to who can and cannot have access to your own copyrighted media without risk of losing your copyright. You may be mixing copyright law up with trademark law. Both are legally recognized intellectual property but they each play by different rules.
I was literally just wishing for a new In Praise video and lo and behold!
There's a weird amount of (I think) at least half-wrong info about copyright in here, followed by weird lack of understanding of character traits and design. Copyright holders don't have to actively pursue legal protection for their works, they hold protection rights to their work from the second they create it in a tangible/perceivable form. Meaning that the original concept of Slenderman would belong to that guy who made the first photos, done and done. The fact that other things that came before him shared character elements does not detract from how valid that copyright is. Just because Slenderman and Hitman47 both are well dressed bald characters that kill people, certainly doesn't mean that they are the same character or that one has more of a right to exist than the other lol
This was a super interesting video, I really appreciate you discussing the production side and the greater scale implications of this kind of creative content derived from others' works. I never really cared for Marble Hornets but I find its overwhelming impact fascinating all the same
Good video untill about an hour in. you start stating your feelings on the later marble hornets content and stating them factually.
that does not sit right with me there are a ton of fans including me of the later stuff even if i agree demystifying the monster was a bad move same problem everyman hybrid faced when trying to explain the firebrand / everyman or tribe 12 with the rake.
I get what your going for but it feels really really harsh and sucked me out of the immersion entirely which is why im in the comments typing this out.
I did enjoy the explanation of the culture surrounding the videos even if i was aware of most of it.
Really cannot believe Doug Jones was wasted like that. He's a legend as costumed monsters, obviously, but his performance as one of The Gentlemen in Buffy gave me nightmares for months when I was a kid. He could possibly have saved that project had he been given room to do his thing.
When I watched Marble Hornets towards the end of high school/beginning of college, I had never seen anything that scared me in that way before. Anytime I drove at night and saw street lights illuminating benches or signs my thoughts would jump to Slenderman. And I feel the same, nothing has "scared" me in the same way since. I have a horror buff friend who recommends movies and I just WANT to be scared by a movie lol. I avoided Hereditary because I thought it was going to be scary but when I watched, the worst part for me was when the girl had an allergic reaction lol. There are definitely things that creep me out and my favorite horror films are usually unsettling but I don't buy into the new horror blockbusters because I rarely enjoy them at all. I want to be scared, but I want it to be good and follow me
When I first heard about Slenderman in 8th grade (just another kid in the early 2000's with too much internet access lol), I was so scared I was afraid to close my eyes to sleep for a few nights. I got in just as it was catching on, when people were first making fake documentaries about his origins and I had no concept of those being fake so I was legitimately terrified. It was insane. I still have very fond memories of Marble Hornets because of this. The fiction that sprouted out of such a weird urban legend really fueled my dive into horror for the first time.
51:35 - Tell me you've never said the word "anarchist" without telling me you've never said the word "anarchist".
How you are so dismissive and insulting of a series you are making a retrospective of is beyond me. To insult a series integrity that did so much for the online horror community, all while spouting incorrect information...You should not be making money from this. You got the amount of times the girl was stabbed wrong, you claim the budget is $500 for the first 26 entries (it was the entire series, not the first 26), you credit the end of MH to the stabbings (they delayed an entry and put out a statement, they didn't end it because of this) you call the operator the slenderman, you say that nobody remembers it fondly and that most people are embarrassed now...This tells me all I need to know about how YOU feel about MH, not how fans do. There is still plenty of dedicated fans out there, and I have had the pleasure of interacting with plenty of fans (what I would consider the majority) who look back on MH with fond memories. I am yet to run into someone who doesn't want anything to do with MH. It is beyond disrespectful to MH as a whole to constantly insist upon how bad a series is when *YOU* are making a video about its impact. Fans who see this will know all they need to know in the first five minutes. This information is not hard to find. I tried to get through this, but your hateful attitude about MH and half-truths are too much for me. It seems lots of people in the comments are taking away the same thing I did. No matter how "small" a series is in your eyes, or how old, it has fans. It's so dismissive not only of the creators, but of the people who love it, to constantly remind viewers how bad something is. As of today, there is a plush of the operator available that has sold over 1000 copies. Take the thing you're making a retrospective about more seriously.
Marble hornets was such a great series and I’m glad it wasn’t forgotten
I love that every movie reviewer/ media analyst I love is also a fan of skinnamarink. Didn’t know about David lunch sending him a gift though! That’s awesome. Excellent video as always.
I remember watching Season 1 of Stranger Things for the first time. Throughout most of the season, we only get brief glimpses of the Demogorgon and midway through some of the characters describe it as a man with no face. I remember genuinely wondering, "Wait, has this secretly been a Slenderman show the whole time?" That sounds absurd now but remember this was before Stranger Things was a huge franchise. At the time, it was just a totally unknown thing that just showed up on Netflix out of the blue. Also, I just assumed Slenderman was a public domain character, so it was possible for literally anyone to make a Slenderman show if they wanted.
Ugg the Caveman is out there bitterly complaining that his creepypasta from 15,000 years ago is now making major bank for Vatican City
I was a freshman in high school when Marble Hornets was just becoming an online presence, and I completely relate to what you said about no other piece of media scaring you like Marble Hornets did. Because that was exactly my experience. No other piece of horror media caused me to experience real, palpable, visceral, paranoia-inducing terror like Marble Hornets did.
I watched Marble Hornets the first time in 2018, well after it was released and still found it very engrossing and effective, I don't know why you're so quick to call it bad.
I will say in recommendation to other late comers to watch something like NightMind's breakdown of the series as you watch it because it adds context and helps keeps you up with how the ToTheArk videos are meant to happen in conversation with the main channel.
And by the end of the series they get really creative with camera work and the limitations of handheld cameras.
I will never forget being a freshman in highschool watching marble hornets with a group of friends in the dark, and then their older sister suddenly throwing open the door and scaring the living shit out of us
The other reason why Angus Scrimm was used, was the original Slenderman pictures were said/rumored to be images of The Tall Man which were edited/face distorted. So bringing him back was a nod to that.
My fave of analogue horror is the This House Has People In It (think that’s the name). The video and the surrounding material is so unsettling
Great video. Very informative