Where Are We Heading? Bret Speaks with Peter Boghossian
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Bret Speaks with Peter Boghossian on a multitude of subjects surrounding wokeism, Covid, and the endpoint of our present course.
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Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
04:20 Sponsors
08:08 Woke ideology and confirmation bias
13:00 Professors and institution’s culture
17:30 Thinking critically
24:21 Shared characteristics of woke
30:38 Responding to friends who you disagree with
37:22 Pandemic and expertise
43:22 I stopped listening to NPR when...
51:06 Is Wokeism an existential threat?
56:00 The Selfish Gene and culture
01:03:00 Is Wokeism seeded by foreign entities?
01:10:12 New atheists and woke
01:14:28 Wrap up - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Here's my story of when I stopped listening to NPR:
I'd listened to them every time I was in my car for probably a decade. This would have been sometime around 2015. I suddenly realized that literally every story seemed to be made to be about marginalized people, even if that wasn't really the story. Tsunami? How did that affect indigenous basket weavers? Etc. I thought maybe it was confirmation bias, so I resolved that from then on, I would switch the station any time they either shoehorned race, gender or all the various -isms into a story that really had nothing to do with that, or chose to tell a story for no other reason than these things. Within a week, I wasn't listening to NPR anymore. It shocked me to realize that short of the occasional huge national or world story, literally EVERY story led me to change the station.
It felt insidious. It had happened so slowly, and I was so sympathetic with the stories, that I had barely noticed. I had donated cars to them. My favorite ever radio show (Car Talk) was still running there. But I also realized the obvious. A news organization with an agenda is no news organization at all. They're propagandists.
I have been a member for 25 years. Decreased listening summer 2020. Severely decreased listening summer 2021 (vxx). Stopped listening March this year after “pregnant people”. Considered to withdraw my support to public media, but I like access to the Passport.
Same here. Stopped in 2020 after they ran a story how Covid hit minorities the hardest. The example was a 21-yr old single mother of 4. look, If you manage to have 4 kids from more than one dude by the rime you’re 21 you are going to have a hard time bo matter what.
I used to listen to NPR and watch PBS news hour. I understood the bias but I like that the news went 1 hour on PBS instead of 1/2 hour.
I also remember the moment that I screamed "Propagandist!!" at Judy Woodruff's image on my screen. I swore then that I would carve propagandist on her tombstone because she no longer deserves to be considered a journalist.
If, 5 years from now, you read about some drunken idiot getting arrested vandalizing her gravesite, it will probably be me.
"Sponsored by the Rockefeller Foundation" didn't clue you in? lol
Monetary illiteracy is the curse of the modern era, just like illiteracy was the curse in ages past -- kudos to Ezra Pound for that insight.
Money organizes people and projects, and the people who control the Money Power control the people through their money system.
They blow debt-money bubbles leading to debt-money busts... the biggest one ever is dead ahead and 100% contrived.
A Rothschild went public almost 15 years ago... and he admitted an awful lot. Their ideology is we are unfit and only the fit deserve to survive. So they financed a system designed to expose us as unfit... and we deserve our own fate... and they, the fit, are completely innocent of the global degeneracide they have financed into existence.
Is anyone interested in learning to find that document to learn what this Rothschild revealed? He's not monetary illiterate! Yes, he's real because he knew where to focus and knew the key points cold.
Here's a telling of an NPR's anagnorisis to the fact all was not well... I was down at an Occupy event explaining how the Money Power was orchestrating the events that caused the stresses in society for which they were protesting. A group of us were just thrashing on the media for being so fake. An older woman showed up with her two adult sons, all sporting "Democracy Now" sweatshirts. She strolls on o er an asks what we are going on about.
"The media is all fake and controlled (by the Money Power)"
She put her hands on her hips, opened up her shoulders, and said in a strong voice, "not Amy Goodman!!!"
I looked at her and asked if she was familiar with the fraudulent debt-based money system.
She replied with some energy, "I knew about debt-based since 1979!"
I asked, "Have you ever heard Amy Goodman talk about debt-based money?"
The energy left her as she drooped a little. "Well, no, I haven't."
I looked her right in the eyes and said, "controlled."
She looked my right back in the eyes and said, you know, you might be right."
I give that woman props for being so up front and honest. I bet she's a darn good friend.
I get no joy blowing up people's beautiful lie illusions... but illusion and delusion will never defeat those who use natural knowledge (light saber... light = visible, saber == to know how things work in Spanish) in order to manipulate us.
A key component of beautiful lie success is that the truth be sufficiently ugly so the masses want to avoid it in their selfishness.
Bret’s smooth transition from Peter’s hearing loss into the line of question about the army of the woke not being able to hear anything to the right of them was one the most witty questions I’ve heard in a while. Bravo!! 👏🏾👏🏾
Yeah, loved it but Peter didn't really pick up on that, should've at least chuckled a little.
@@pfzt I know. I think Peter gets hyper-focused on precisely communicating his thought that he sometimes misses little things like that.
And is nobody going to notice the opposite metaphor, that Peter refuses to hear to the left anymore? "Idiopathic" may well be psycho-spiritual. His hearing loss "just happens" to be a metaphor for his professional life? No. His commitment is so profound it shut off an ear ffs.
As a mathematician, I was able to read the numbers and data very early on for cov2. I didnt need to be a biologist or viralogist to see what was going on
I’m an accountant and blessed with common sense. From the very first time I heard about the treatment that is experimental and we have no idea about long term implications, for a disease that has the survival rate of 99%+ for a healthy individual, plus having had a great amount of mistrust in the pharmaceutical/government agencies, in that moment I knew that everything about covid is a fraud.
@@timeabiro674 I would say you must be like me and be "cursed with a memory."
All of the tactics used were too much like all the other propaganda I have seen that my instinct was to be wary.
I’m a moron washed up meathead and even I could tell it was all BS! Lol
....then you are brilliant. Wish my husband (whom I regard as one of the most intelligent, close to genius folks) would have THIS insight that YOU have. I am not studied, I am not a genius ... but after a while 'I knew' there's something wrong.
@@CrossFit819 Your comment made me laugh out loud! Yes, even I saw those clowns coming down Fifth Avenue! I have been expecting this since the 2010 flu vaccine mandate in my hospital. I was fired back then for not getting the flu shot. I was alone in my refusal, and was made an example of. My how things have changed. It warms my heart to finally see push back on these draconian policies.
I was a Democrat in the 80’s. “Positive discrimination” at that time disturbed me. I felt it was corrosive and devalued the individual. Eventually I left the party. It’s horrifying to see wokeism now. I’ve been saying for years that the mentality behind it left unchallenged will end up in something like the killing fields of the Khmer Rouge. Gratifying to see bigger brains than mine have also pulled the ejection handle to escape the corrupted left.
You want some tinfoil fodder? Thats why the (powers that be) have been feminizing the western male. They did the same thing in Japan after ww2. Look at pre-war hypermasculine hyper aggressive japanese culture vs post war hyperfeminized anime/otaku culture. The populace wont resist if they literally do not feel like it.
My ultimate point being: maybe they think they can have communism without the wolves and the killing if they remove the male essence from culture.
This podcast is becoming the new infowars. Alex was just more louder with Crowder
I agree and it’s quite concerning. I also used to be a leftie until I actually started looking into things for myself. The h8, vitriol, lack of logic and basic civility coming from the left goes against everything I believe in.
Any ideology that believes itself to be morally superior and above suspicion is dangerous. When they find that they can’t eradicate differing ideas the next step is to eradicate the people who hold those ideas.
@@robertblake1228 How? Did you even listen to it or is that just something someone told you?
I’m done with that party too.
I respect and enjoy Boghossian's arguments enormously, but his insistence on absenting himself, as a humanities person, from a scientific/public health/philosophical debate is a considerable factor in why the pandemic response evolved as it did.
Yes, I agree
The ‘I am not a biologist’-‘argument’ or ‘I am not an expert’ … is staggering to me every time, especially from critical thinkers who talk about the inportance of having a certain disposition next to critical thinking skills
@@rafiline3199 see also: a recent Supreme Court nominee
Absolutely.
Agreed. I’m going to choose to believe that with Peter it’s his value for humility taken to an extreme, but that doesn’t get him off the hook regarding the irresponsibility of it. As Bret & Heather have said many times, there are principles of logic and analytical thinking skills that can be applied at a high or medium level to any arena that will enable you to detect significant problems w/o the highly specialized knowledge of that area of study. Peter clearly has a solid grasp of those principles and skills but for some reason won’t apply them to the arena of medicine and public health and see the obvious systemic corruption evident there. It’s quite frustrating.
You guys are legends. NEVER STOP!!!
Please stop! This is a 0.01% problem...most people have a life and work.
Really appreciate your support. Thank you.
How I love you and Heather, and all the good people you associate with. Thank you for existing and doing what you are doing. You give me and many others so much; something to hold on to, a light in the darkness, a life raft to cling to. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I had the same response and feeling from this conversation. ❤️
I'm sure they appreciate the flattery.
I just loved the way both of these men engaged in good faith, rigorous discussion of ideas. Bret models this practice wonderfully, with his guests - and I just find that so helpful and instructive. ❤️
This program is such a godsend of a sanity resource. Feeling gratitude 🙏
Thank you. Bret makes it easy!
Dear Bret and Peter, I found the two of you less than six months ago through listening to Jordan Peterson...I only became aware of the word "woke" at about the same time because of the simple, often sheltered lifestyle I tend to live. I knew that the LGBTQ culture was growing since my time at Dartmouth College (employee...not student) yet had not been exposed to the ever-expanding trend or shift in what seems a normative cultural aberrancy in understanding or agreeing with the tangible biological/physical realities of life...Professionally I have a very diverse and eclectic background, so removed from the mainstream of most common social circles. As such, I have to rely on those like you to understand what I can only take as a very dangerous trend in mass sociological breakdown...With great respect and deep thanks I comment here because I often now grow concerned (while in certain company) that my own perception of reality is the one in question since I find myself vilified for and being called a "conservative"..."racist"...and/or..." a harmful hostile person." All of this is very new to me, and I'm at a loss for how these individual arrive at such deviant, often hysterical, or altered states on mind...My sanity is now anchored to "checking in" weekly to channels like yours, Peter's, and Jordan's just to stay grounded as things seem to slip away socially in the outside world of most "first world" cultures...Blessing for the work you both do and share with others...
@Don Pedro Dear Don, I appreciate your remarks, and thank you for sharing them... It's not as much "care" as I have profound concern for the mental health of those living in this country as I see it rapidly eroding around me. As a former clinician, I have been observing the rapid decline within society for the last three decades...I have no real issue with being labeled whatever someone cares to use, as long as it is based on a semblance of logic or accuracy...when it doesn't (very common now) I grow concerned for that person's state of mind...and thus...the mental health of our country at large...
100%
You're not alone, brother.
@@JayCWhiteCloud Blatantly so to those unaffected or just objective. Why doesn't the military/politicians/normal caring types allow it. BECAUSE ITS BEEN DELIBERATELY DESIGNED TO TAKE OUT & BALKANISE THE WEST THE USA IN PARTICULAR.
For some reason I feel happy for you finding these two (+Jordan).
I guess this is because I really understand how important it is to have these voices to remain grounded when the "outside" world seems to crumble, sucking in everything you thought you have known.
Yes, I love Dark Horse but my secret delight is listening to Bret doing the commercials 🙃. Seriously. Straight up and no baloney. Refreshing just like the discussions.
He's downright terrible at it, i have to say. But love the show, so ...
Respect and thanks to both of you.
Awesome guest! Boghossian's work and thinking deserves a far wider reach, in multiple languages. I hope to one day see his approach to street epistemology replicated on university campuses in many more countries, including Finland!
Thank you for your support. I truly appreciate it. I couldn't do what I do without support.
Bret, you’re very accommodating with your guests. That’s a very nice character trait.
Bret is a brilliant thinker, and a patient host. I’m afraid Peter couldn’t keep up.
Brett is very special and intelligent
I noticed that too! Peter mentioned Neil Ferguson thinking on this or that, and I noticed Bret tactfully bypassed it.
My instinct would have been more to blurt out: “That guy?! No way!”
A tactless trait, I’m working to improve. Bret’s a great model ❤️
@@devin_3875 That one nearly tripped me up. I can’t remember now exactly what he said, but it only made sense if he were talking about *Niall Ferguson*, the historian, and not that criminal fkup queynte, Neil Ferguson.
Only if they agree with him.
This conversation is delightful. It's great to see two people in the same room just having a dialogue/dialectic. Bravo 👏
Thank you, Chris!
I also once lived NPR. One day they drained Lake Wobegone, filled it in with concrete and planted a Chaz/Chop victory garden on top.
Always love your conversations, particularly about this topic. My own degree was poisoned by postmodernism and I loathe it with a passion. It was hard to find a better thinker than Peter to help deprogram from the indoctrination.
What is the degree in?
@@carolyna.869 Early childhood education. I gave up teaching when I realised that the state-legislated curriculum demanded I pass on the indoctrination to young minds.
@@stormwarning9182 Do you oppose government "public" education then or will you be subjecting your kids to public education - where are you with you love of childhood education?
*Wonderful* conversation! I am such a big fan of you both!
Bret and Heather, if you guys read these comments, I think an interview with Kim Iversen would be quite interesting. She recently left The Hill because of the hypocracy surrounding the interview with Anthony Fauci.
Yes, yes, yes!
thanks
It's somewhat ironic that a man like Peter, ferociously logical, is afraid to look into the abyss of our covid journey. I don't blame him really, no one wants to lose their remaining friends. But it's the exact same thing as what he rails against. There is nowhere safe to stand.
Yes, very ironic. Have this episode on pause after the well known ‘I am not an expert-argument’ …. I sincerely try to consider why people (with the skills and disposition) would (I believe often without conscious malintent) ) suddenly drop their critical thinking entirely when talking about Covid narrative. In my experience this happens a lot and I am trying to find out if and how I can best reach or talk with someone stuck there.
I wonder why this happens.. Is it fear of losing friends as I think you said? Is it fear around personal health issues that blocks people from hearing critical reasoning? Is it avoiding to admit one hasn’t looked into it very much? Or…(understandable but still ) a lack of capacity to face and then sit with the potential discomfort of not being able to trust an authority,? ..the feeling of loneliness, threat of ostracization or having to deal with (take responsibility for) ones own health completely, leaving one perhaps vulnerable, fragile, without help? (Even when they think they are generally critical of and with authorities)
or simple ignorance… not knowing enough and not knowing they dont know?
Would really like to know what you think?
I've always found this most fascinating too. Ferociously logical thinkers suddenly acquiescing and submissive around the subject of covid and vaccines. My supposition is that there are two factors with this: (1) most people and especially smart people, have a real difficulty admitting they got something wrong, and (2) as rafi says, a fear around personal health issues and the real anxiety of wondering if/when SADS might affect them, if they're going to wake up tomorrow, feeling a need to get their affairs in order just in case etc.. For their own personal sanity, they just can't even begin to entertain such thoughts, or "go down that road". I totally get that.
Sovereignty is the safest place to stand...
@@jo-annel.wright2975 Personal Sovereignity?
@@jo-annel.wright2975 Yep, the only sane way to live is to walk the razor's edge
I don’t recognize any of my former friends and family that were even slightly left of center. Positions they once held are now as far left and irrational as you can get.
Peter is still very mistaken on what we Conservatives think.
One thing in the last 6-7 years that has shifted me to conservative is how nasty the democrat voters were to conservatives in public, and the others would not reprimand them. They would either cheer it on or ignore it. Remember the woman openly attacking the 12 year old boy for wearing a maga hat? Absolutely disgusting
In my experience, left is now right, and right is now left. Progressive is self-destructive, and conservative is keeping the species evolving. I hope Bret will have James Lindsay as a guest, another creative thinker.
@@christadecoster2286 yeah, everything seems to have flipped upside down
I’m honestly still confused as to what conservatives think at this point. Or what liberals want and think - everything has been turned around .. the conservatives are looking to conserve what exactly?
I love it when Peter stops what he is explaining, part way through, to comment/question on non-related things, like Brett's hand injury from his bike and the Dark Horse drink coaster. Love the lateral thinking.
I thought it was a little bit odd, but okay.
Squirrel!!! 🐿️
What does that mean?
@@JohnPretty1 hes equating petes focus breaking moments with a dog who has seen a squirrel out of the corner of his eye
I didn't even notice till you mentioned brb, I think there's a bird outside my window
I did **NOT agree** with Bret or Peter at times and yet at times… I did agree with them. 🤔 I miss this type of dialogue filled with courtesy and reciprocity. Keep it coming - very refreshing! 💦
Can people trust any science produced in the last 30 years? Knowing research institutions are captured it makes me very skeptical of things like say climate change.
Totally agree ……. This is what most people still don’t get. If you look at global warming closely, there are great examples of fake science. There are also some great examples of data being erased and or changed regarding wild fires.
Back when I was younger they were saying green house gases would cool the earth into an ice age.
Yep, without grants from the government they can't exist. Even private donors are under the tyrannical thumb/boot. So the agenda of those in charge are truly in charge. Evil is winning
If course not.
@@smelltheglove2038 you are exactly right. I remember clearly the discussion that earth could be cooling and possibly to a disastrous level. And how historically earth has turned into an ice ball. Then shortly thereafter Al Gore kicked off the whole global warming thing. He showed people how they could become rich and politically powerful from pushing global warming.
I’ve been watching Peter Boghossian’s TH-cam videos, and it’s really enlightening. And frightening!
Thanks, Bret. It was a pleasure to speak with you!
Brilliant conversation. Consider sharing this with all skeptics you know - this type of content helps awaken our fellow humans!
@@honey...salguod Yeah.
:( Unfortunately, I’ve noticed this too.
There are no sides.
😏
@@honey...salguod I have an appreciation for such cynical perceptions these days (perhaps because I'm so tired of the sheep I believe the majority of people to be), but I think there is serious, genuine value in this conversation. For instance, seeing a well laid out analysis and criticism of woke ideology doesn't mean I have to flock to an alternative tribe. I am not a card carrying member of any party, and I don't intend to become one. When I see discussions like this, I see intellectuals who think for themselves demonstrating why other people should think for themselves. Insight regarding the evolutionary mechanisms behind religion and things like that also qualify as information I'm more than welcome to listen to. This is coming from a strongly religious person myself, and just because I hear things like this out doesn't mean I am self-flagellating when it comes to my religious views either. I want the most whole view of the world I can get, and I believe both Bret and Peter contribute greatly to the rounding out both of my understanding and that of many others.
With that said, it seems that tribalism is one heck of a persistent (and not inherently bad, though often wayward) part of human nature. When a person is convinced that one side is off the rails, that person often takes shelter in the opposite side by default. And I hate to see ideologues who strongly criticize one side but either fail or refuse to acknowledge that many of those same criticisms characterize their own side to a great degree as well. It does help that the likes of Bret offer no shortage whatsoever of criticisms toward non-woke sides, like those who question the 2020 election, those who question the good of vaccines in general, etc.
Love this discussion-to where we are today-my doc is still telling me I’m behind in my vaccination (Covid) really? I told her I was not going to take it 2 years ago-got omicron and sailed thru it-what’s hard to understand?🤬I’m 62 years old with MS/35 years and going 💪
Repetition of wrote mantras proves worthiness for salvation... Drinking the Kool-aid Proves Faith and Commitment.
When I learned about NPD by being married to a diagnosable covert narcissist for 7.5 years, and saw the mechanisms that this maladaptive individual utilized to control me, and but then I was able scale these features to include groups and society writ large. I found the language to describe these individuals and what’s happening throughout the world in psychology.
Peter is a ferocious thinker and I love his YT content.
he didn't show any of that here, imo
@@marcusegan6758 I think Bret did a good job bringing some things out of Peter.
I don't think he's going to bite.
Then again, after listening to more of the interview, I find myself a little impatient with Peter’s plodding thought process.
@@supremoluminary I know what you mean. I like Peter and his channel but his thinking seems a bit scattered at times
Two of favorite people. I'm glad this conversation has been shared and hope this happens again in the future.
What annoys me about discussions on wokeism, and I don't believe this is intentional by those with the courage to discuss it, is the idea that the ideology comes from grassroots movements. As if wokeism is a natural progression from progressivism when progressivism is allowed to be organically taken to its natural extreme. There's nothing natural about its progression, and the plebs (and that very much is the correct word to use here) are followers of the ideology. Not the progenitors. These plebs who practice wokeism may be in the belief that they're at the helm. But that's how the ideology was designed. Save me the 'the establishment has to react to woke individuals who push wokeism' line. The establishment grin with glee when a minority vocalise the exact same wants as they do. It allows them to paint the situation like more people want wokeism than who actually do all the while having a fall guy (what should be ordinary people now corrupted), and it puts an extreme beyond themselves as an example of something possible which is much worse, all the while allowing for a shift toward that extreme to go unseen (boiling frog).
We must name them. The real orchestrators of this order. 2022 is the year. The year to mention Klaus Schwab, the WEF, The Open Society Foundation, George Soros, Bill & Melinda Gates society, Meta, and Mark Zuckerberg, The UN, and Every major world leader (especially of the developed world)....
I'm sure to anyone reading, you could probably add more to the list. I invite you to do so in the comment section.
Make them known.
I do love listening to discussions as in this video. But I do agree with you (as far as I understand your point), that there are other reasons for " wokeism". My explanation for it has to do with the new order of the world which is regionalism - and in particular, Pan-America (aka Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA)). Consider for a moment, through international agreements, they defined the security perimeter as being the water's edge for North, Central and South America with no borders between the nation-states for the economies of the FTAA. Anybody with more than two brain cells to rub together would expect crushing migration from the third world to the north. Wokeism is the defense of cultural cannibalism and economic disempowerment of the majority who are being displaced by the mass migration to the U.S. This was not done by accident by mediocre minds. It was done intentionally and strategically to bring the U.S. down. That's my take on it.
Good points. I noted that when they were discussing who might be responsible for conceiving and deploying Wokism as a religion, Peter especially was looking at external enemies: Russia, China, Gulf Arab states. Imo, It's the same mistake a lot of people made during the Russiagate accusations. I was surprised Bret didn't bring up WEF, BMGF, or similar, knowing what he knows about how influential they've been during Covid.
I would agree with you that if this was intentionally seeded, it almost certainly came from the groups you listed and those of their ilk. I'd add the Tavistock Institute in the UK (its sister org the Tavistock Clinic has been heavily involved in "treating" transgender kids).
@@raj27Dutch I've been researching the marxist groups in the Pacific Northwest. Following those threads led me to discover an organization that was started in 1995 in Chicago. (The World Trade Organization was established in 1995.) The name of the group was the Center for New Community. "Community" is one of those non-descript words that the leftists like to use because it leaves most people out of the real conversation while allowing them to think they understand. Anyway, this CNC group had two primary missions - 1. Faith-Based Organizing 2. Democracy. Their M.O. was the same then as the "woke" culture of today except that they were focused on the groups who were trying to get legislation passed to control the flow of migration across our southern border. In one big report they did on members of Congress who were trying to pass legislation, the CNC used the term "Nativists" and "Nativism" as an accusation. Who uses those terms except anti-Nativists and anti-Nativism? They used the slurs of racism towards anybody who stood up to defend our country. The biggest tell of all is when they call a patriotic black man or Hispanic, a white supremacist. It doesn't compute.
@@raj27Dutch Yes, the idea this is 'Nations' like China or Russia going back to the cold war, only helps to hide the true villains of this story and foster a narrative for conflict with neighbour.
Great conversation! I appreciate you both. 🙏🏼 Jessica
The “write what they want to read so you pass the course” attitude is the norm. Nobody thinks to challenge a professor in an essay. I couldn’t bring myself to write a fake essay, but almost everyone I know did that because nobody is there to learn. Everyone’s there for the grade.
This is so foreign to me. I only took math and science classes.
Great evaluation of the educational proces👍
I can’t get enough, I could listen to this kind of dialectic forever with cats who have mind like these. Great stuff Brett and Peter!
Cats or dogs?
😉😉
Right leaning here. Thanks for providing an intelligent, thought provoking conversation from the other end of the spectrum that doesn't use name calling as an argument.
There was something similar that happened in the USSR. They identified managers of workers as class enemies during the revolution. Typically the managers had more technical training. They would maintain machines while the workers tended to operate them. Was a cluster but I haven't seen much written about it.
Interesting, although in current times managers are way more out of touch with reality than workers who actually understand machines, technical stuff etc. because of real experience.
@@christadecoster2286 I worked in a US circuit board factory and it was similar to what I described. Exception was facilities department employees were in the middle. They could read schematics and repair equipment too. Workers had no idea on how to do anything other than operate the machines. Managers also had a understanding of the chemical processes involved that workers did not.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Russia was an agricultural society during the time of the Bolshevik revolution. What you've mentioned seems to describe a process that occurred in China during the Cultural Revolution.
@@l.w.paradis2108 it was Russia. They had a navy, made guns, et cetera. They must have had some industrial ability pre revolution.
@@darthverminates9708 Your source for Russian history? A genuine question, not a skeptical one.
This should be a thing. You two talking regularly! ❤️
I am in rural. RURAL KY, and at my dollar store yesterday there was a parrot headed (actual) girl cashier with they/them scribbled on their name tag.
No place is safe from this insanity. (I addressed it as miss)
😱 are you saying you didn’t dare to address the cashier “They, please ring this up…”?
Yep. Dorrigo NSW Australia- same. Rural. Same. Young woman walking her dog. Grey nomads said "nice looking dog" Boy or girl dog? Young woman says dog identifies as gender fluid. Wtf. Meanwhile, 2 km out of town are some of the best beef and dairy cattle breeding studs in the entire country.
It's weird...I don't really use personal pronouns except I. Just fill in the person's name when talking about them.
A Halloween costume?
“Tradition is the answer to a problem we have forgotten “. I don’t remember the source, but believe it’s true.
This is one of the best discussions of 2022. Came back and watched a second time I felt it was deserving of the focus. Great job 👍
A perfect explanation of why vaccines are seen as civilization's salvation, and how people continue to brush aside any valid scientific objections.
And isn't it a little weird that NO oNE even cares that the virus was made in a lab in North Carolina then transported to China. Ho hum. Just something we all have to deal with... the government can keep creating bio weapons and we all just have to roll with the punches. Planet Moron
Vaccines work,
...When tested properly .
@@CrummyVCR And how would you know this?
@@johnfausett3335 Polio comes to mind.
@@CrummyVCR I thought it might. It seems to be everyone's favorite. The narrative around polio was similar to the narrative around COVID. Media was more trusted then and dissenting voices had few places to be heard. Everyone agrees that polio ceased to be the scary concern that it once was, but not everyone agrees why.
Ayn Rand looks pretty good these days. Maybe more should have listened to her warning.
She ALWAYS looks GREAT.
More conversations like this. Sometimes I don't understand where Peter is going but his thirst for common understanding can lead to interesting places. Good stuff
I only found NPR within the last couple years, since Covid, and it didn't take me long at all to tune them out after reading a few of their articles. I probably came across their stuff on occasion years ago, but it's total BS now. I'm 67. But everything has changed over time. Republicans and Democrats used to be able to work together in partisanship. They'd have their differences in Congress and the Senate, but then go out and have a drink together as friends, but it's all out total war between them now. The Democrat party wasn't infiltrated with Socialist, Communists and Progressives back then, and RINOs and DINOs were few and far between. Now they have BLM, Woke, CRT and so many other things that Divide the nation instead of bringing it together. As soon as the wounds start to heal, another divisive plan is implemented.
Doctors and Nurses HAVE to do what AMA says or they will lose their licenses and practices. It's not so much that they _believe_ Wokeism, but if they even speak out against it, they will be shunned or even disbarred. This is not to imply that _all_ disbelieve it, but _all_ of them _must_ follow it.
*The "Mantle of Science"* is a *great* way to put it. The Dems *claim* "We follow the science," but that's the last thing they do. They follow their Narratives of the science by quoting science and then completely negating the same science with their Spin Titles, Prefaces and Summaries to support their Narratives. That's when they don't create their own false, boldface LIES and _call_ it science. Yes, it's the Sheeple that cannot see through the haze.
I'll be looking for All Things Reconsidered!
But Republicans are morally an intellectually unblemishe?
@@klondike444 this infighting is exactly what the elite want. I must say as a conservative, I think there are more RINO than Dino if one would say a Democrat going further right is a Dino. Otherwise it's pretty even. Neither party wants to concede their representatives have gone astray from the typical party values. It's like a religion in itself to worship one party, it's a huge blind spot to people.
@@JennyBrie2006 I would agree that it should be about policies - and actions. But note all the specific criticisms in the OP are of the "Dems". As someone who's always considered himself (what used to be) a liberal, I'm aghast at what's happened to the "liberal" media. As for politicians, we knew they were nearly all corrupt and self-serving, but the way the current administration has handled covid, at the cost of many thousands of lives, both in the US and other countries, beggars belief.
@@klondike444 it's the woke agenda. It's making everyone look so insane. People are leaping out of their usual stance to concede to the crazy younger generation's newest crazes like chopping of body parts. People don't even research where this new fashion came from before jumping on board. This is the reason the government don't want anyone to watch "what is a woman" because the story is in there where this butcher shop got started. They are making money while playing Dr Franklinstein and people are falling for it. Unfortunately, the larger part is the radical/progressive left who are heading this craziness, so some more centrists are going to go along because the force is strong🤦, after all, party to the death. The rest who are conservative who are the nut jobs that follow this crap are weak spineless jelly fish and let the wind toss them to and fro.
As for the politicians, not one out there who is crooked is above being blackmailed. I bet Klaus Schwab owns the book on blackmailing!
@@klondike444 In an ideal world, I wouldn't have to worry about critters of *any* kind invading my house. But since it's not an ideal world... well, I'm hardly going to worry about the mice nibbling away in my pantry when there are _bears_ in my living room. (And in this analogy, I would certainly equate the Democrats to the bears, rather than the mice.)
At 40:59…. Discussing how he doesn’t know anything about biology,/immunology….well that’s probably the vast amount of human beings on planet Earth….but that didn’t stop me from listening to the ‘other’ side’s questioning of the main stream’s narrative. …(when they weren’t censored or banned
Most of us, non-scientists, with a healthy curiosity & skepticism knew it didn’t make sense…
You don't need to be an engineer to know the car doesn't run!
You just had to drop this just before I was set to go to bed. So there’s no way my brain, nor my television, is going to be turned off anytime soon. Damn you!!!😡😂
Some profound insights made during this discussion. Thank you.
One thing I learned in law school was that I could not argue in favor of a position unless I could also intelligently and completely argue in opposition to that position. I remember a class I was taking for Political and Civil Rights, taught by Professor David Goldberger (the Jewish ACLU attorney who represented the Nazis at Skokie 10 years earlier) where I argued in opposition to one of the professors ideas. Then when he asked for a show of hands of people who agreed with his position, I raised my hand. My classmates could not understand why I was arguing against the professor’s position…but Goldberger got it and appreciated it.
Great convo guys!
Thank you both.
These guys really stimulate one another. Need many more hours.
Agreed.
thank you!
Great conversation. Thank you.
Thank you for this topic!!!
Yuri Bezmenov predicted what is now the woke movement in the 80th. You are right at around 54:30 when you said someone already used it as a weapon: It was the soviets and they did it about 50 years ago. It's a slow weapon, but unfortunately it does seem to work and does keep going on it's own.
Here is the link to Yuri’s interview.
th-cam.com/video/yErKTVdETpw/w-d-xo.html
lol you're mad if you think the Russians/Soviets had anywhere near this amount of influence in the west. I'm as pro woke as they get, but this is a retarded take on "our" side.
This is one of the best convos I've heard in the past year at least. I don't normally listen to these guys regularly on their own programs anymore, but the synergy here is outstanding.
thanks, stenobro
Thank you Bret & Peter ... once again highly interesting. Much love to you. God bless you for your work & speaking up !
such a great discussion. thanks gentlemen!
Thankyou
@~34:00 re: friendships
YES! I especially agree with this! Although it can be tricky & difficult & frustrating when or social network is insufficient or strained; especially during a pandemic that has ordered everyone to be socially distant!
But the importance of choosing friends very carefully & wisely can not be over stated!
Thank you for your take on NPR. I complain to my wife that every single story has to talk about "white privilege", "systemic racism", and how things "disproportionately affects people of color."
Really enjoyed this thank you
We need more jobs that produce a positive experience as a human. The push to college and the results are not good.
Thousands of generations have existed without jobs that provided meaningful positive experiences as a human. I think it's part of the problem to expect that a job should provide you with this. Get a life outside of work, join a club, make friends, take up a hobby.
“You are not your job, you're not how much money you have in the bank. You are not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You are not your fucking khakis. You are all singing, all dancing crap of the world.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club
I'll give that film a miss.
I agree with you. I should have been more clear. College is not an answer. Find meaning through family, friends, craft, life. Make your job mean something.
Love this conversation and was wondering when this was going to happen! Thank you both!
Best Podcast channel out there!!!! Learn so much from you and Heather and your guests!!!! Excellent content!!! Intelligent conversations!!!!
Love both of these guys. This was an instant watch when it popped up on my reccomendations. The conversation about culture being part of biology is something I have been trying to convince people of for years and this is the first time I have heard anyone else talk about it. Its the argument I use when trying to explain the existence of secular morality.
I love how Bret (at @31:30 ) slips in a dig at New Atheism and how "religion is a mind virus" was the standard line. The slight error in target notwithstanding (Dennett, Dawkins, etc, were not the New Atheists -- New Atheism happened when IDPol entered Atheism) I applaud that the 4 Horsemen's time has come and gone. There's never been so much pushback against Dawkins and Sam Harris and I thank Bret for doing his bit in this.
Dawkins and Harris...ugh. Dullards
Two sayings come to mind. "Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad," and G.K. Chesterton "When people cease believing in God its not that they believe in nothing but that they will believe in anything." (Slight paraphrasing.)
There have been quite a few really great discussion here on Darkhorse with Bret and his guests, and this would have to be near the top; mind expanding and informative. Thanx, and cheers.
Good conversation. I like how you guys interjected a small thought and then allowed thr other to continue theirs, rather than moving thr conversation into a tangent that was never returned.
@54:40
Brett, your ability to incapsulate meaning in words is a beauty.
If by "meaning" you mean "grift" and by "beauty" you mean "gobbledygook " then I agree.
@@marcevan1141 "war" is not "peace", "slavery" is not "freedom", "grift" is not "meaning", "gobbledygook" is not "beauty" and "Mark Evan" is not "worth" to agree with.
I didn't know Peter was a Portlander too!! I'm gonna have to find these two and takem to dinner.
Very good podcast. I love how Brett eloquently states the points in a fantastic way😊
Same feeling I had after amputating 4 fingers on my right hand in a tablesaw accident.
I had a premonition years earlier that I would have at least one accidental injury. All professionals risk something. Even a college professor.
What I gained from the terrible experience was a divine gift of insight into greater dimensions. Many speak as though they understand......
like Near Death Experiences. These are experiences that shift your worldview quickly.
Empirical evidence? Oh yes! Peer Review? Yet to meet one yet. Please come forward. 👀🐡
Was then when you changed your name?
@51:12 and earlier : "my former co-author". Has Peter B. completely flushed James Lindsay out of his life that he won't say his name anymore? Wow.
[EDIT] Bret noticed that and a few seconds later says James' name
Had an ear destroyed by 1979 surgery to cure hearing loss. You haven’t yet realized what you’re missing. It sucks. Sorry to hear you had this.
Great show!
I worked at an NPR affiliate. There were a few journalists who really laid themselves on the line to get an honest story, but there were more who just wanted "access" to rich and successful people, and upsetting them by asking questions about their labor practices, etc. would make it impossible to get them to agree to another softball interview. I often told the editors how my lived experience as a low-level employee at companies run by CEOs they were interviewing was nothing like the corporate office culture (letting women bring their kids to work, etc.) They tuned me out. I tried to tell them about a labor action down the block (nuns being protested by carpenters because they were hiring non-union). They asked me what the "hook" to the story was. I said, "They are MARRIED to a carpenter." They gave me a blank stare. They want to be the feel-good "Lefties" that cheerlead for the Pelosi's of the world, but they don't want to sour their chances of being initiated into the upper echelon themselves.
Fascinating. I've often thought the function of the sacred might be a solution to the irreducible complexity of reality. Durkheim defines the sacred as those collective representations that are set apart from society, the untouchable that transcends everyday life. For large-scale cooperation, we require somewhere to hide contradictions and people to police it.
you're the man, mike.
the university headmasters are getting fat checks from ccp, with the condition that they force their professors and teachers to teach the ccp's ideals for the usa. that also dictates the superintendents of grade schools, who are trying to gear their students for university acceptance.
Watching again🕊
This question would make an amazing book; When I Stopped Listening To NPR…
I stopped listing to NPR around 2010, after listening daily in my car for more than twenty years.
friends love you in bad times
This is such an amazing, high -level conversation! So rich!
Yuri Bezmenov was warning us of what was taking place back in the 1980's.
I know two people personally who have gone down this rabbit hole. It took a few years but it has been sad to watch. I feel like they are more depressed now that they have adopted these woke ideas.
I think it would be impossible to be happy or content when you see everything in terms of power and oppression
Kevin Carrigan
How do you know it’s not you who’ve gone down a rabbit hole? most people who are anti-woke on an extreme level have not been able to differentiate between those of us who support the LGBT community, specific nuanced cases and those attention seeking, with no ideology other than that.
I’m a leftist who will vote for my local congresswoman, a Democrat Katie Porter. My anti woke friend will not vote for any Democrat, regardless of them being a better candidate since he feels that the whole party and the left is woke. Even if Katie Porter, like me, supports LGBT rights.
Who’s more extreme here?
@@jocksharerock7318 uh well you kind of answered your own question my qualifying the people you are referencing as "anti woke on an extreme level."
Yeah.....only about 2/7 of the gay people I know actually care for the "woke" agenda. And it is even weird for me to categorize them like that. They despise the fact that they are being used for a political movement they do not support and absolutely love being made fun of lmao. I am not like the straight woke people who think gays and blacks are weak individuals.....it is the exact people I grew up around.
Tell me what bill that you have FULLY READ that supports gay people. Not just the headline
@@kevincarrigan2798 you’re getting ahead of yourself, and all of those that I know, whether LGBT or straight don’t care for the attention seeking ones I spoke of. Like Amber Heard taking advantage of the #MeToo movement as to soil Johnny Depp’s good name. You’ve basically described you and the people you know, and me and those I know as the same.
I think you’re used to dealing with those you believe are woke since I said I support LGBT, that you don’t realize that I support civil rights for all. I don’t waste time in reading distinct bills, and I’m not even for hate crimes legislation. We have laws for criminal activity and don’t need to go inside someone’s head to analyze bigotry behind it. LGBT have the right to marry and receive the benefits as any other. That’s the kind I support. I oppose those that try to take away those rights. We’d have to discuss particulars regarding trans and the Dave Chappelle thing, cause I think he’s great and support him despite those attacking.
I think most on the left believe in those basic civil rights. HR departments throughout the land obviously have standards of decency for all.
It’s more on you to point out legislation that’s oppressive to those who are being oppressed by this “woke” crowd before I believe Democrats have gone so far you won’t vote for them. As it’s said here that all institutions have been taken over throughout the land, I’m not seeing it
@@jocksharerock7318 nah dude I am used to dealing with many types of particular person as I have been traveling the country for 4 years in an RV with my wife who is an ICU nurse......
You are assuming a lot about me while typing decent points.
Dont be assuming you who are talking to online my man. The youtube space on the internet isnt the place to try and persaude others. That energy needs to be in your day to day life. Best of luck my man
As a person with a mind virus I found this enjoyable
Language is a virus.
Great to see you two talking
Wow. Thank you both.
Why does it seem that Peter is so much BIGGER than Bret? Is he really 9 feet tall (like Robert Wadlow)?!? Also, he doesn't seem to "get" a lot of what Bret is saying...and he mentions Niall Ferguson in a positive light and Bret kind of lets it slide...Bret as always razor sharp...
There's always gonna be a spot in my attic for this Jew if he ever needs it, idc what they say about you Brett, you're one of the good guys
They're smarter now and won't start the exterminations until they have absolute power first. It'll take another generation, so no one living now will have to worry.
"Bret"
Thanks for sharing
One of the best discussions I've seen on epistemology!
The capture of NPR is one storyline from a much larger capture of the federal government itself. The starting point was Louis Powell's, then a partner in a politically powerful law firm, letter to the National Association of Manufacturers in 1970 outlining neoliberalism as a public-private partnership where the politically powerful have institutional control over political institutions. Nixon nominated Powell to the Supreme Court, and his letter became the ideological foundation for the 1978 Civil Service Reform Act, which created pathways for neoliberalism to infiltrate the federal administrative state. It's been growing in power and influence for 40 years, eventually producing a shadow government populated by senior bureaucrats with lifetime appointments and career politicians who work directly with corporate minders. Harvard, Geogetown. Stanford and other elite universities provide the woke thought leaders inside the federal state, while the politicians and corporate monopolists extract the wealth. In turn, these are protected by an entity called the Council of Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency, which operates without oversight or accountability. The result is that the design now dictates outcomes, whether it's war or peace, authority or Constitutional rights, or health and safety. To change it, requires knowing how it works.
Imagine if we replaced 'privelege' with 'fortune' in the debate and see how it changes.
Excellent sanity defending conversation!
The more precise you are, in describing the element of the problem, the more it allows creative and positive avenues of thought. Keep on talking and narrowing it down. We will collectively find the path, I can feel it bubbling up.
Awesome conversation. Thank you both!
One of your best videos yet. Please don’t stop …… the world needs some sanity.
The fresh air of honesty. Thank you.
Excellent discussion