This episode felt important - how do we have a nationwide gas shortage in 2024?! I'll keep reporting on this. Let me know if you have any questions you want me to ask in the comments.
If your comments here are anything to go by, there seems to be a general lack of understanding and knowledge around the unsuitability of renewable energy in the form of Wind and Solar. They are simply not going to be the silver bullet that saves our energy needs. I am not anti these technologies, but very much see that the science and reality is against them as a real solution. Perhaps breaking down the cost/benefits and lack of scalability might be a good research path? All for proving me wrong if that is what you find.
can grown adults with intelligence sign a bill mine coal oil gas and a stockpile post it to stockmarket provide both supply and annual net return or we can be poor and overburdened by taxes
Capitalism in nz is at a record high. I can’t help but feel like if we keep siding with the USA instead of say Venezuela or Russia we will always end up paying more
Didn't hear any mention of Mercury Energy in the video. They are doing some really good work in terms of renewable energy and wind farms. I'm keen to understand more about their role as major energy retailer.
The lignite in Southland is reported (in a government report, updated 2004?) to have sufficient reserves to provide ALL New Zeland's fertiliser and diesel needs for over 250 years.
Living in the south island, we use bio gas as a source of natural gas and as a engineer, i have built Bio digesters using plant to cow waste of 25 to1 producing about 51% natural gas as per gas volume after filtering this bio gas is used by the industry to heat greenhouse houses . This maybe be one way of reducing energy imports
Exactly.. at a domestic & regional level.. we could also burn tires.. carbon black is in high demand as a by product.. better to condense to oil .. but ¿
But solutions like this will never be adopted because it can't be upscaled efficiently and therefore not profitable for commercial venture. What a messed-up system we have
@@evilaquaman CO2 is not an issue. The world's elite are manufacturing lies in order to cash in... heavily...using their control over the media and governments (Vee haz penetrated 40% of zee vorld's governments - Klaus) There is no CO2/CH4 crisis.
Madison is my new obsession. Love the real journalism with industry experts being allowed to speak freely on our home grown issues. Comments section not turned off either unlike the gutless msm.
Cindy said we didn't need gas in 2017 and banned all explorations. We agreed and voted overwhelmingly for her in 2020. Now we are running out of gas, we reap what we sowed, Kiwis.
Dont forget cindy the witch shut down the coal mines so we now import d grade coal from half way round the world. great coal over half is toxic waste after burning,but greenies still claim its better....
Those who opposed the ban on exploration were vilified by the mainstream media, as was encouraged by Cindy, as being climate change deniers with heads stuck in the sand, backwards dinosaurs, shortsighted, colonialist wackadoodles. As though we can just turn everything off that isn't on their list of permissible options as a way forward. Who's shortsighted now? 😂 It isn't bold or brave, it's utter madness
Still cheaper to get it shipped than dig our own with all the regulations around mining NZ is not attractive for mining company's to come down here and even if they did there is no guarantee we would see any of it anyway it would most likely be shipped offshore.
More to the point, NZ governments destroyed the NZ coal mining industry and we don’t have sufficient a skill base within NZ to go back to mining coal near the Huntley power station - Jacinda sabotaged New Zealand at the behest of her WEF handlers who stand to gain by selling gas oil and coal to NZ
Thank you Labour government for the ban on gas and oil exploration while the country wasn't ready for greener transition. Here the consequences of short term politics and incompetencies...
@@AORD72 Back then not only generators were privatised. clearly NZ needed the money at that juncture. We can't simply print our way out of problem otherwise we get re-rated by s&p fitch etc and our currency drops like a brick making all imported goods very very expensive,
The clear answer is the source of the problem can solve the problem, the answer is methane and biogas, we have millions of dairy cows spread throughout new zealand, dairy cows produce effluent, which can be put into an AD digester to produce gas, and or electricity, using cow effluent reduces a problem and produces an energy source, we have a very good distribution system in the North Island, with gas piping through all the major dairy regions, in the south island it should be used to generate electricity, thanks for sharing
This is nothing short of ridiculous, Are we not completely surrounded by untold amounts of clean green tidal energy? So much that storage would be almost unnecessary, The closing or Marsden point was definitely a treasonous act to create this very situation, Our forefathers worked so very hard for that crucial piece of infrastructure and loosing those capabilities leaves nz completely reliant on foreign imports jeopardizing our whole economy, Thanks cindy 😢
What's the alternative, would you rather Jacinda offer BP billions of our tax dollars to keep Marsden open? They made a commercial decision and gave NZ the middle finger in the process, your anger is misdirected.
@@katecarlisle8383 I think they did a large expansion some years ago (I remember seeing new pipes)?. But there is only a certain amount of heat under the ground, producing steam. So I think they are already at maximum output. However, there are other thermal area's, but the 'societal minefield' (eg ruining the natural look of the pristine area, rights to access, percentage profit distribution to land owners, resource consents), makes it dead in the water already.
It is soooooo easy to just extract GAS from our coal ! All it 'basically' requires is pumping steam through it to extract the gases. What is left over is pure carbon. So....why are we not doing it Luxon & National? GET ON IT!
The Great Plains Synfuels Plant does that in the USA. They gasify coal and catalytically convert it to synthetic natural gas. It can also be converted to petrol and diesel with different catalysts and higher pressures.
The economic justification and logistics of gas import will be challenging: - long lead time, >4 years? - short life, payback required by 2050? -low capacity utilization - small import parcels (relative to typical) - expensive equipment onshore, or bespoke ships required. NZ is not a cheap-energy country anymore, even though many big industries depend on that.
No mention of the effect a seemingly never ending rise in immigration is having on energy demand. A stable pop. would stabilize demand, but could also lead, with investment in energy projects to a supply which could increase NZ's industrial production. John Kidd stated that water was a zero cost fuel. Surely this relegates gas and coal to the least preferred options? Does this mean that the lake Onslow project was, especially long term, an excellent solution? In the extreme long term when there is no gas or coal, we'll be stuck with renewables only anyway. Another reason to control demand by setting a fixed pop. size. If LNG can be imported at half the cost of domestic gas, why are we even worrying about further exploration? It makes no financial sense. If 50 bores have been drilled, and no gas has been found, why would investors want to risk throwing good money after bad? Conclusion: import LNG until we have a long term sustainable/renewable energy supply???
John Kidd did not factor in the 'handouts' needed to use that free water. Just at Waitaki River, Southland, Meridian Energy are paying $180,000,000.00 over 35 years, for the ongoing requirements to assist nature, native fish and animals by funding the parties that look after them. That's before you generate any money from the electricity being produced. And then you have the maintenance costs of the river, dam and grid on top of that. That must leave very little profit (just from that power plant) for Meridian, at the end of 35 years. And already, in 2012 Meridian dropped it's plans on Project Aqua. The company has spent about $45 million on Project Aqua and another $50 million buying land in the Waitaki Valley. The complexities of the Resource Consents forced them to go for a more lower power option via a tunnel network. As for your 'poke' at immigration, March 2024 statistics showed New Zealand population grew by 130,700 and there was a net migration loss of 52,500 New Zealand citizens. Which leaves a net migration gain of 163,600 non-New Zealand citizens, mainly citizens of India, the Philippines, China, and Fiji. If it wasn't for those immigrants coming in to fill the void of the jobs of those leaving, we would be in a worse predicament than we are already. Considering the world population growth is tailing off and reducing each year, I expect you will get what you wish for, with a stable population in New Zealand, in perhaps 5 years time. Or if it all turns to custard and net migration exceeds the 1980's and 2012 years, as was the saying back then, "Would the last person to leave New Zealand, please turn off the lights."
@@David-yo5ws we as a whole are much like our own brains, if we don't build a resilience to certain situations, we become placid unable to imagine life any other way. even when we want change, parts of us to cling to the past. we live very good lives here in new zealand, but alot of us lack skills because of our education system. its sad because we get people from countries who lack the upbringing with such technologies, educate them, them get them to work here, however, someone being taught the information slowly whilst growing up would have more knowledge. I have worked with many indians for example in IT and no maori what so ever, the indians are insufferable which I can only equate to growing up in the mountains with no computer, where for me I always had a computer. my worry was, it wasnt just one, it was too many to even count on my hands, not just whilst working, but studying as well. obviously this in bias on my end, but its just so many. not to be even more racist but japanese, Philippines and some Chinese were ALWAYS great workers but very rare, im sure these guys grew up with a computer. they were educated, specifically on technologies that our country uses, not "forced" with the promise of education, a job and a better life in another country. you end up working with people with no passion, and finding people who if given the right education, might be working right next to you. I dont think there is a solution, everything is to out in the open with the internet, alot of exploting got us to where we are today, and now we can no longer do it, mean while, our laws still allow others to exploit us. our distance doesnt help either, why would someone with skills who grew up here want to stay here?
@@MrCaesartheman I have been meaning to reply to your first-hand insight & today's the day. I liked the content. I wrote a letter to the editor of a newspaper, that got published. And it was something along the lines of my struggle to get a job with ageism ripe in the local business's. It ended something like I would be joining the ranks of immigrants, in applying for jobs. I have a friend, brought up in NZ, whose parents were both from India. He has no computer skills at all. Nor do his brothers & sisters. But they have fantastic memories and are kind and compassionate. He used to run a business that employed 7 people. Then a competing company moved into the region & that was that. It does seem like there are certain skills for different ethnic groups. But that's the dynamics of diversity and I think NZ does a good job to embrace that well, compared to a lot of other country's. A big company I used to work for, sent a few of us to Australia to do a course in diversity. Well that was an eye-opener. It showed how you really had to understand other cultures, because they have such a different way of decision making. You just have to try & alter settings on an android cellphone to see that! So you accept diversity in the workforce or you segregate groups in the workforce. Just speaking to an agricultural manager really highlighted the negativeness between some cultures picking crops. If they were not in separate groups, fights would break out. At the moment, our government is applying 'tough love' & stopping the gravy train in many area. But with 80 'baby boomers' retiring every day & an aging population with more dementia & stroke cases growing, we need immigrants who can care for our senior citizens, more than those that can operate a computer. All of the political parties knew this day would come & none of them prepared for it. Just like they knew our oil & gas would run out. But investments in new technologies, could help turn the tide. The tide that is supposed to rise by a meter in about 10 years. Nature is the ruler of the world. We just blow in the wind, to whatever way it pushes us. May the breeze be soft upon your back.
stable long term demand isnt really possible yet energy needs are exponential everywhere this has nothing to do with immigrants every individual person uses 10x the energy they did a decade ago and they will use 10x more in 10 years its all of us, and it has been for decades we are always planning new generators its not other peoples fault, its our own the better way to manage power would be to take the 75% renewable energy we have and make up that extra 25% with nuclear nuclear is a safe alternative we choose not to use the ultimate plan was to allow gas to be taken from certain nz regions and then to force the gas market to slowly crash that is exactly whats happening and people are complaining its fair, but it was also planned and yes funding them would throw a huge amount of money away and potentially lock new Zealand into throwing more away later the deal wants to incentivise new energy and part if that is making nz accountable on the off chance that they fail we pay out at the very least, that clause must be removed but ideally, we actually let gas crash that is the goal we want we dont need it and will have to let go eventually the sooner the better, there will never be a good time it will always be a painful departure with an adjustment period
Madison is very captivating and with her fierce eyes while throwing those questions, no souls can escape her. Thanks for asking though tough questions for us.
Thanks for this wake up ....Incredible that with so much hydro we have there most expensive electricity ... Max Bradford allowing the energy sector to be privatised was a national crime. If it were nationalised, returning the asset to the NZ people it would be a start. Marsden point being shut down was another travesty, with Maui A and B running down for their last 3 or so years and a government that doesn't encourage drilling ,we are living in interesting times.
Great stuff Madison, recently subscribed. Your excellent questions created an interesting interview and I really enjoyed the slightly longer format vid. Keep up the great work!
And Max Bradford and National for privatizing half of the generation. If it was fully owned by New Zealanders we could have had more supply built and lower prices. Instead we have overseas shareholders taking payments causing higher electrify prices. The CEOs are focused on increasing shareholders profits not cheap prices for New Zealanders. We have 20% generation consented but nobody is building it because it is not profitable for the shareholders.
There was 50 “low risk” wells that all failed. The existing ones are producing less. Perhaps this industry is not as reliable and scientific as one might think? Would you invest on those odds?
Awesome work Maddie, you're one of the only credible journalists we've got in this country these days! Don't know how you handle working alongside some of those other ninnies in the industry... Keep it up though!
@16:49 "and you know frankly you know New Zealand has lost its attraction over the last few years because of the direction of political travel in the last two terms of government so you know to to take away um New Zealand is now a country that is risk on whereas previously that just wasn't the case"
Insane that NZ hasn't forced Methanex and Tiwai to close. They produce next to no GDP yet the power and gas prices they are causing are bankrupting en masse NZ manufacturing (and households when regulated prices rise to recover wholesale costs).
Look up the daily cost of a LNG vessel sitting in dock ssssllllooowwwlllyyyyy bleeding gas and tell me how much that gas will cost per unit vs domestic gas
Recent analysis shows the LCOE for solar and wind production in New Zealand is around $70 per megawatt, geothermal around $90 per megawatt, but gas and coal-fired plants upward of $170 per megawatt.23 May 2021 Since published, solar and wind have gone down another 30% whereas gas prices have risen so why are we talking to these gas energy curmudgeons?
Because wind generation is intermittant, and turbines only have a lifespan of 20 years. Countries with the greatest penetration of wind and solar in their grids have the most expensive electricity.
@@shanecollie5177 demand is intermittent as well and even if we have steady state power generation, battery storage is still incredibly effective at balancing the grid. Even Auckland has a huge utility grade Tesla battery for that exact reason. Matching intermittent supply with fluctuating demand is an engineering problem which is best facilitated by adding storage to the grid. For example if every vehicle in New Zealand was electric then they could be used to absorb power when there was no demand and could even be engineered to supply power back to the grid when needed. America which is self-sufficient in fossil fuels has installed over 80% of its new capacity in the past five years as wind and solar which is a testimonial to the most cost-effective evolution of a grid. Comparing different energy production methods is difficult if you are only looking at the cost of energy at the retail level. If you take all of the fossil fuel subsidies into account you can easily make the argument that subsidies reduce their cost by 75% but if even a tiny subsidy is applied to renewables there is a clamoring of unfairness from the fossil fuel industry who by the way have corrupted every government on earth. Most of the talking points I hear during discussions of renewable energy come directly from the fossil fuel industry not exactly a trusted source. They are the ones who spend over billion dollars a year in producing anti-humanity propaganda. Unless you haven’t been paying attention they’re also the onesresponsible for starting most of the large wars since World War II. I cautioned the ethics of promoting their talking points.
@@colingenge9999 E.P.A data show electricity generation by source in the U.S.A is 38.4% natural gas, 21.9% coal,18.9% nuclear. Demand is not near as intermittant as wind energy supply, wind generation can easily ( and frequently does) drop to near zero, and can do so for days at a time. When historical wind frequency patterns are studied, (UK) it is concluded that a wind base load generation requires a minimum 9 days storage. The cost of that is enormous, for example, at current battery prices, the cost to provide battery storage on the isle of mann (for their proposed wind only generation)is 3.6 billion pounds, for a population of 85,000 , with no heavy industry.Renewables in the usa provide 21% of electricity production,yet recieve 46% of all electric energy subsidies, fossil fuels, which account for over 60% of generation recieve 13% of subsidies (source US E.I.A)
@@shanecollie5177Yes wind it intermittent but so is demand so in any scenario battery storage will smooth out supply and offset demand spikes that happen daily. The LCOE(life cycle cost of energy) includes insulation operation maintenance and decommissioning of the entire system. The LCOE of Wynan solar in New Zealand is less than half that cost of natural gas energy generation. You cannot simply dismiss renewables as being intermittent because every energy supply is intermittent to some degree based on the avail of water for Hydro, maintenance schedules and powerline disruptions. Battery storage plays a key roll in a power grid. In the past decade 80% of all new energy installations in the USA were wind solar with battery storage which is occurring in a country that has a plentiful and supply of natural gas. New Zealand does not have an adequate supply of natural gas concluding that solar and battery storage is even more cost-effective. Were there a wind turbine last for one year or 50 years is all included in the LCOE which looks at the lifecycle cost of any energy production source.
New Zealand has some of the biggest gas reserves (clathrates) in the world, within its EEG. The consequences of extracting this come with enormous economic and environmental impact. This is a hard one, but given there is investment coming to fruition, perhaps importing the necessary commodities makes the most sense?
This is also happening in Australia too As our old power grids get chewed up even more by AI and Data Bases which are very high in Water usage to cool down these big techno buildings Watched DW Doco yesterday regarding this global crisis too 🕊😇🧐
Great question….why haven’t we. When you have unqualified ministers doing an industries job and also not putting structure around forecasting disaster you end up panicking and it won’t fix itself over night. From what I have read we have enough petrol coming out of the ground to service all our needs but we don’t have a refinery to do it. I hear Australia gets it all lol. Marsden point can’t do it even if it was running. This will probably take 10 years to solve.
Wrong. If the ban on exploration stayed in place it would have eventually effected supply. I takes about ten years to develop a new field so the ban would not have been felt until 2028. There are at least eight factors that have led us to where we are today with natural gas. Edit: Typo, changed 2023 to 2028 (based on the most recent offshore discoveries would have been before the 2018 offshore exploration ban).
Do you think that the 50 dry wells wasting $2 Billion in exploration funds might have been a factor. "Cindy" put few restrictions on onshore drilling. There are 3 offshore permits still not drilled. Now that Shane Jones has said "do whatever you want" why don't you and a few mates raise an extra few $billion and drill a few more holes? Take up the opportunity that all of the oil majors have left on the table.
NZ rested on its laurels for almost a decade not roling out meaningful wind and almost zero solar. You now produce not much more than HALF the wind power of Brazil (as % of power - 7.8% vs 13.5%). In 2013 that was 4.7% vs 1.1% in NZs favour. As to solar a pitiful 0.5% of power is from that source vs 7.3% in Brazil. Fact is NZ shouldn't need gas for power AT ALL between hyro, solar, wind and geothermal + battery storage. Solar and wind are critical to allow run of river hydro to have sufficient water in storage so it can run at max capacity at the morning and evening peaks.
We don't have a gas supply problem. What we have is an energy supply problem. And that's down to the way the electricity market runs - it incentivises the leading suppliers to have juuuust enough capacity and no more. Any more and they dent their profits. There's huge capacity consented and not being built, there's plenty of opportunities for solar on every big business' roof. We need to find a mechanism for increasing supply without relying on decisions in the board rooms of Meridian and Genesis. Or changing their decision making.
Back in the 1960s and 1970s when engineers were running the electricity system we had good supplies. This is what happens when people with a profit motive take over. They enrich themselves from the volatility, and never mind the damage to everyone else. Edit: You are right, Madison - this episode is important.
Clearly need to increase Geothermal electricity production to bolster 24/7 base loads. Solar and wind have there place but both have limitations. Geothermal cranks regardless of weather or time of day.
The writing has been on the wall for decades on this industry. Talking to someone with huge bias toward the status quo won't give us any answers to our energy issues... We had plans to increase renewable power security through storage at lake onslow etc... We don't need to be having conversations any more on a dead industry. We should be investing into the future like stopping building any new homes with gas connections etc.
"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most. No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores. No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. This universal truth applies to all systems. Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).
@@Goodkiwibloke One cannot fathom how much energy used to build and maintain a hydro dam (actually, any system of energy, too). If a barrel of diesel bought at the petrol station to run a shovel building the dam, then how much energy expended until that barrel of diesel made it from deep in the underground in Saudi Arabia ending at the last point of use? How much energy went to build the petrol station that sold the diesel, the energy consumed as food for the operator of the petrol station? - and so on and on... Nature has taken millions of years to create fossil fuels, the 70-200 years the hydro dam will be lasting is nothing. Finite fossil fuels are dangerously hypnotic to humans, their consciousness, reasoning and mental capacity. Humans were not ready morally, ethically and intellectually to start the mass extraction of fossil fuels with the advent of the steam engine 300 years ago. "No matter how highly mechanised and self-powered, fossil fuels extraction requires a number of people as if the process is executed by hands using buckets and ropes - by physics". Today, this number is 8 billion people - working flat out 24/7 - strong. Madison Reidy, you and I are among those, too.
The fix is to regulate the generation companies to force them to build more generation instead of focusing on profits for shareholders. The generation companies should have to invest annually x amount of new generation for y amount of profits. If they don't they should be taxed the x amount extra and that money used by the government to invest in generation. We once had super cheap electricity prices then privatization destroyed that, now New Zealanders are playing higher prices to keep overseas shareholders happy.
NZ is not a communist country, and the power companies are not the cause of the problem If you actually listened, you would realise that 1. Hydro Lakes are very low (blame nature for that, maybe force nature to make it rain in the right places, or tax nature if it doesn't comply) 2. The last government scared away investment in gas drilling (perhaps those who voted for them should be taxed at a higher rate to oay for the damage that tinkerbell caused, or maybe tinkerbell should be incarcerated for damages caused) 3. There are solutions, but cost is high, so who pays (when all costs will just be passed back onto consumers anyway)
@@Goodkiwibloke That is not communism, where do you get that logic from? If the people like the polices they will vote for them. "Hydro Lakes are very low " and that is known to happen that is why you build extra capacity THAT IS THE GENERATORS FAULT. "so who pays", not the shareholders of the generators do they.
@@gregorymalchuk272 "wind solar batteries scams?" shows that you lack knowledge in the industry, do you have industry certification? Wind and solar farms are highly cost effective. If you look the levelised cost of generation written by many sources all around the world you would understand. And look at our turbines, they are some of the most efficient in the world due to our constant wind. You think generators are going to build stuff that isn't cost effective? Are serious? You think they don't study the economics? Do some research, don't listen to an idiot American politician.
Regulate and they will leave Subsidies by way of less red tape to prospect and construct using tax relief on investments that supply NZ rather than other nations and investors will line up. NZ needs to develop the primary sector especially mining and gas But LNG investment also makes sense
They can only export crude oil now, and we no longer have a refinery it was closed years ago, therefore even if we could import it there is nothing we can do with it
@@ytzpilot Russia? They are exporting lots of LNG. Europe in spite of sanctions get 20% from Russia because there are no alternatives, EU will be screwed when the current deals run out. Also lots of oil - Russia stopped exports of refined oil products to avoid too high prices domestically but lots of crude is still exported to Europe through middlemen. But getting Russian oil that way is not recommended, pricey.
@@steinbauge4591 there are no LNG pipelines to New Zealand, they are shipping crude by ship and doing ship to ship transfers at sea to get around sanctions, that one remaining Pipeline to Europe is currently under Ukraine control so that’s not good for the Russians. They used to refine and export but that is no longer the case
Not necessarily so. If Onslow goes ahead, the big gentailers will just factor that capacity into their own future investment plans, and we'll be back to square one soon. Their job is to maximise profits, not guarantee to keep the lights on (that's down to Government).
We have 10 years of gas and plenty of fields available for exploration, if we reopen exploration we should be ok. Renewables aren’t worth the investment, they simply don’t work well enough.
I'm surprised the NZ government and utilities haven't seen this coming for years. Diversifying the electricity supply with renewables like wind and solar could have avoided this issue. Especially with high energy prices renewables are very competitive.
These are not practice to replace gas or coal as both are uncontrollable. When grid demand spikes we can’t increase wind speed or prevent clouds blocking out the sun…. Not to mention darkness at night.
@@BB-lj1xv That is correct. But it can decrease fossil fuel demand sharply when there is sunshine and wind, thereby leading to decreased system costs and longer term energy security. And while you can't increase the wind speed, you can increase the capture rate of wind energy with modern turbines. In my country of the Netherlands onshore wind energy is the cheapest form of energy available.
So subsidise domestic solar and battery, people could put power back on to the grid during peak times when demand is high and no-one is home. Oh wait, where is the profit in that?
and whilst the Greens came into power with Labour in 2017 (7 years ago) they said we don't need oil and gas because the future will give us an alternative... and we are still waiting... what time scale was this?
Question …..do the greens and labour need to be held accountable for stopping exploitation? We seem to get hamstrung because the government isn’t spending money of infrastructure.
Question then, based on this do the Nats need to be held accountable for privatizing energy in the first place which saw billions in profit go to shareholders? Imagine if we didn't keep selling our souls for profit and instead re-invested that money into renewables instead? We would be well ahead of the curve on emissions and have saved billions in carbon offsets that National is refusing to budget for. Guess who ends up bailing out farmers and energy when we don't meet our Paris agreements? WE the tax payers. Cool story man. Banning exploration was important. We need to move forward and stop burning fossil fuels.
@@beeftan great question. When you have investment money coming in it has the potential to grow the economy. I think having the clause of not full ownership means we still have equity and the risk is 50/50. When you have shareholders you loose the focus on the people (users) and it become all about making profit for shareholders. If we realised still how great we actually have it compared to the rest of the world maybe we can compromise but when it’s either all about social or all about business how do we compromise? I suppose that’s why we have coalition. Labour and greens together are 2 one sided. How do we make change happen? Btw I’m not 100% national either but a country needs to be run as a business not a social experiment. I was really hoping we could have put money into our health. These people train to give for the rest of their lives. They should be paid well to keep us well. :)
@@michaelbooth1097 Ok well assuming we NEED to run the country as a business we should assume that the primary asset is the people. The people are the primary income generation. What happens if you consistently starve your workforce? Of course they leave for greener pastures and you have to hire new cheaper labour. We see this now with New Zealand and the mass departure of skilled workers for greener pastures. Man if we only just taxed fairly and invested in future projects this country could continue to be great. At this rate if we follow the failed principles of trickle down economics we are going to implode. It is not sustainable to encourage investment in housing and not tax capital gains. Home ownership rates continue to fall since the 80's, prices will continue to go up because businesses only care about profit. Feudalism 2.0
@michaelbooth1097 both sides are "too one-sided", and just as bad as each other. NZ needs some bipartisan long-term strategic goals for all sorts of things, to stop the bs we have now where a new government's default position is to roll over whatever the previous government put in place. It’s wasteful, inefficient, and serves the humble taxpayer very poorly over the long haul. I've encouraged both our kids to look further afield, because I really don't see a 1/4 acre Pavlova paradise future for them here - and that sheets back to decades of poor, self serving three year focused government policy on both sides, and no long term vision.
@@petercroft9895 I can agree that they are both are one sided. So the national government has come in at the bottom of the bell curve. 50 thousand businesses have shut shop. It’s not the best place to be for a government coming into power. Correct me if I’m wrong but it takes around 7 years to turn it back to the top or it’s 7 years in total ….. anyway it’s a hard time to win over people but it’s a great time for people to recognise that like the government you need to what what you spend. I to have encouraged my kids to make wise choices on the types of job they get for the future and 3 are looking overseas for work. You have hit the nail on the head there Peter. Thanks for the reply
If Genesis burned New Zealand coal at Huntly and EV owners were encouraged to drive petrol vehicles in the short term while the country was short of energy from green energy sources, would this contribute more CO2 emissions or less than importing low grade coal and transporting liquified gas by ship?
The problem is not EVs. The problem is lack of construction of supply. Plenty of consented projects ready to build but oversupply of electricity is not profitable for the shareholders.
@@AORD72 Electricity created by burning gas and coal, transmitting down high voltage lines, and converting to low voltage power for consumers to charge EVs has considerable energy loss and definitely a higher carbon footprint than driving a petrol hybrid and possibly worse than driving an efficient petrol car. If a lack of construction of electricity supply is an issue do you think the previous government should have invested in electricity infrastructure rather than giving rich people a grant to buy EVs that we don't have the infrastructure to supply green electrical energy to charge.
Petrol cost New Zealand $.15 per kilometer for a Prius or $.33 per kilometer for a full size car all imported Energy. Instead we have unlimited wind which would cost with battery storage about six cents to kilowatt hour which would enable us to power those same cars for less than two cents for a kilometer. It is total insanity importing for transportation. Diesel is even worse because the healthcare cost of diesel is 4 to 5 times what that is for petrol the healthcare cost alone would pay for substituting for electrified vehicles.
Banning any more drilling permits in NZ will make 0 difference to global emissions, world demand remains exactly the same ,in fact its growing. The exploration companies have simply packed up, taken their funds and equipment and gone to other countries to drill. The world is still hopelessly dependent on fossel fuels. Generating power with your own gas from a pipeline is far more efficient than importing coal and LNG. I'm all for rooftop solar however it's a long long way from generating enough to support industries like steel mills, dairy, pulp and paper to name a few, there are a lot of days when the sun doesn't shine in NZ. We could just kiss all these industries goodbye and loose thousands of jobs and billions in revenue, once again demand for these products would remain the same or grow as population increases and other countries would just increase their production to fulfill the demand. I'm all for clean green energy and I would love to see more of it however the day we make enough of it to replace fossil fuels completely is a long away if ever. The world is still hopelessly dependent on fossil fuels and I don't see why we should destroy our small fragile economy to make a token gesture to the environment while industrial giants like China and USA have a carbon footprint thousands of times worse than us and that's not likely to change in the next few decades.
Australia exported such a high proportion of its gas production it now has a domestic supply problem. We export a heap of ours in the form of methanol so we now have a similar result. Lack of control of well flow rates also impacts badly on reservoir life expectancy which definitely doesn't help. Looking at you Petrocorp. We had a storage strategy proposed in the form of Lake Onlow but TPTB are too invested in short term solutions to think that far down the line. Storage of electricity is so much easier and safer than for fossil fuels. Combined with EV uptake this could be attained to a large degree by way of V2G connection of these 'batteries on wheels'. The instinctive fallback to ICE vehicles by the interviewee speaks volumes about his engrained biases towards fossil fuels. Domestic solar is capable of charging EVs with minimal reliance on the grid and its 'coal reliant' generation and requires no importation and foreign fund expenditure. Exporting gas as methanol and then importing natural gas as LNG is a very expensive and potentially dangerous solution. Good luck convincing any NZ port facility to construct an LNG terminal and definitely not near, or upwind, of a population center. Let's face it, an LNG ship is potentially a floating bomb! And of course LNG appeals to the industry as it will breath new life into existing infrastructure. Laying the blame on the lack of gas production now on the lap of the previous government's exploration ban is arguable. NZ is remote geographically with typically small hydrocarbon reservoir geology which makes it both expensive and high risk for exploration. Mining licence tenders were going unsold prior to the ban so the trend was already developing of drilling decline. The risk of remediation of any 'event' also makes NZ less than attractive and our older fields carry the liability load of end of life remediation. TLDR, develop renewable generation capacity and electrify our lives and transportation as much as reasonable. Stop selling off the remains of our gas as methanol or making urea, and don't even consider selling LNG. Build resilience into our energy sector by investing in storage such as by pumped hydro. If we keep living based on burning hydrocarbons we don't have future.
NZ stuck in past century where developed economies are moving from gas stoves say because the health care cost of the indoor pollution would more than pay for clean renewables. Even Texas is eliminating natural gas for energy production because wind and solar with battery storage are cheaper.
@@gregorymalchuk272 My point is that if we took the costs to maintain gas powered energy production and the health care costs associated with the burning of nat gas, we could afford a renewable energy system given that the lower cost of renewables would strand all our nat gas assets making them next to useless by end of decade. Similarly, since EVs cost two per kilometer versus the average petrol part vehicle at $.25 per kilometer we could easily afford a complete electrified transportation system with the money we are throwing away on fossil fuels.
@@shanecollie5177 I agree that batteries are expensive but look at the return on investment. If you are truly interested in the value of different power generation methods I suggest you look at rethinkX and follow the LCOE of various energy production options. One example of the ROI of a large utility scale battery was the first one to be installed in Australia at the Hornesdale power plant about five years ago. The battery cost $94 million and pays back $42 million every year plus for no extra cost stabilizes the grid. in fact the battery worked out so well that Australia has now changed their policy completely on utility grade storage batteries and now has a $564 million battery on order because it will pay itself off in a very few years and eliminate the need for peaker plants. The environmental benefits of not burning fossil fuels not only don’t cost money but wind up saving money. NZ continuing to see power generation in terms of last century’s technology will leave us with a fractured economy with no chance of recovery unless we continue to rely on selling our land to offset cash outflows for Fossil Fuels.
To speak of renewables and Cindy in the same breath talk to us about her brokering the sale of most of NZ’s solar industry to Blackrock. With the help of Tindal’s investment fund.
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There is and has always been an endless supply of gas in Wellington....
We are such a wasteful country with energy . That should be the first port of call , not imports. Just as it was with our “ recycling” , when others said , no, to taking our recycling, we actually had to look at what we were doing, and it looked ugly. Well, our energy use is not much difference.
And yet the govt is still pushing EV's. How on earth do they expect them to be able to be charged unless the rest of Kiwi's have to suffer to allow the few EV owners to be able to drive to work ?
This episode felt important - how do we have a nationwide gas shortage in 2024?!
I'll keep reporting on this. Let me know if you have any questions you want me to ask in the comments.
If your comments here are anything to go by, there seems to be a general lack of understanding and knowledge around the unsuitability of renewable energy in the form of Wind and Solar. They are simply not going to be the silver bullet that saves our energy needs. I am not anti these technologies, but very much see that the science and reality is against them as a real solution. Perhaps breaking down the cost/benefits and lack of scalability might be a good research path? All for proving me wrong if that is what you find.
can grown adults with intelligence sign a bill mine coal oil gas and a stockpile post it to stockmarket provide both supply and annual net return or we can be poor and overburdened by taxes
Capitalism in nz is at a record high. I can’t help but feel like if we keep siding with the USA instead of say Venezuela or Russia we will always end up paying more
energy shortage*
Didn't hear any mention of Mercury Energy in the video. They are doing some really good work in terms of renewable energy and wind farms. I'm keen to understand more about their role as major energy retailer.
How come me we never get this quality of discussion and analysis on very important national issues on mainstream media? Keep up the good work.
I thought this is the mainstream media
This is the NZ herald. Shown by the logo in the top left and in the outro.
New Zealand has enough coal to last us 2000 years and is importing coal. What a stupid situation.
The lignite in Southland is reported (in a government report, updated 2004?) to have sufficient reserves to provide ALL New Zeland's fertiliser and diesel needs for over 250 years.
Big thanks to Jacinda the Unready!😂🤣
Living in the south island, we use bio gas as a source of natural gas and as
a engineer, i have built
Bio digesters using plant to cow waste of 25 to1 producing about 51% natural gas as per gas volume after filtering this bio gas is used by the industry to heat greenhouse houses .
This maybe be one way of reducing energy imports
Exactly.. at a domestic & regional level.. we could also burn tires.. carbon black is in high demand as a by product.. better to condense to oil .. but ¿
Way to go..I get the impression that it's about fuel control...
But solutions like this will never be adopted because it can't be upscaled efficiently and therefore not profitable for commercial venture. What a messed-up system we have
that's great, do you also capture the CO2 or is that phase 2?
@@evilaquaman CO2 is not an issue. The world's elite are manufacturing lies in order to cash in... heavily...using their control over the media and governments (Vee haz penetrated 40% of zee vorld's governments - Klaus)
There is no CO2/CH4 crisis.
Madison is my new obsession. Love the real journalism with industry experts being allowed to speak freely on our home grown issues. Comments section not turned off either unlike the gutless msm.
Madison is a man
Madison literally is the NZ Herald MSM you goober
Whilst I'm very worried about our politicians ability to handle the energy market, this guy gives me some confidence!
A open free flowing conversation .
A pleasure to listen to .
Cindy said we didn't need gas in 2017 and banned all explorations. We agreed and voted overwhelmingly for her in 2020. Now we are running out of gas, we reap what we sowed, Kiwis.
I will exclude myself from that "we". This was always a very obvious problem to me. We already did this with coal.
Dont forget cindy the witch shut down the coal mines so we now import d grade coal from half way round the world.
great coal over half is toxic waste after burning,but greenies still claim its better....
Those who opposed the ban on exploration were vilified by the mainstream media, as was encouraged by Cindy, as being climate change deniers with heads stuck in the sand, backwards dinosaurs, shortsighted, colonialist wackadoodles. As though we can just turn everything off that isn't on their list of permissible options as a way forward.
Who's shortsighted now? 😂
It isn't bold or brave, it's utter madness
She prayed on the Kiwi "She'll Be Right" attitude with so many things.
your once great country is Fxxked
"imports coal" even though nz has higher grade coal that burns cleaner and, it wouldn't need to get shipped around the world.
Still cheaper to get it shipped than dig our own with all the regulations
around mining NZ is not attractive for mining company's to
come down here and even if they did there is no guarantee we would see
any of it anyway it would most likely be shipped offshore.
More to the point, NZ governments destroyed the NZ coal mining industry and we don’t have sufficient a skill base within NZ to go back to mining coal near the Huntley power station - Jacinda sabotaged New Zealand at the behest of her WEF handlers who stand to gain by selling gas oil and coal to NZ
Shocking, huh?
@@bobdillon1138why can NZ make its own mining company?
@@honeyholly001 If you mean NZ Govt funded and run not going to happen
Govts run Countries not businesses.
An engineered crisis
Same as here in OZ
All crises suffered under capitalism are engineered.
Thank you Labour government for the ban on gas and oil exploration while the country wasn't ready for greener transition. Here the consequences of short term politics and incompetencies...
And Max Bradford and National for privatizing half of the generation, making shareholder profits more important than prices for New Zealanders.
@@AORD72 Any proof of your accusations?
@@AORD72 Back then not only generators were privatised. clearly NZ needed the money at that juncture. We can't simply print our way out of problem otherwise we get re-rated by s&p fitch etc and our currency drops like a brick making all imported goods very very expensive,
@@AORD72 Ding Ding Ding!!! The real crime was selling off our assets in the name of profit
@@xmj6830 What proof just look it up? You sitting here commenting blindly on a video from an expert who works for the Gentailers.
The clear answer is the source of the problem can solve the problem, the answer is methane and biogas, we have millions of dairy cows spread throughout new zealand, dairy cows produce effluent, which can be put into an AD digester to produce gas, and or electricity, using cow effluent reduces a problem and produces an energy source, we have a very good distribution system in the North Island, with gas piping through all the major dairy regions, in the south island it should be used to generate electricity, thanks for sharing
Worst thing we cant do is rely on the private sector to fix this.
So Rio Tinto makes less money, I mean to be fair we are giving our electricity away to them @ 3.5c KwH anyway.........
Rothchilds own it too
Rothchilds own Rio tinto
This is nothing short of ridiculous, Are we not completely surrounded by untold amounts of clean green tidal energy? So much that storage would be almost unnecessary,
The closing or Marsden point was definitely a treasonous act to create this very situation,
Our forefathers worked so very hard for that crucial piece of infrastructure and loosing those capabilities leaves nz completely reliant on foreign imports jeopardizing our whole economy,
Thanks cindy 😢
What happened to geothermal eg tapping Rotorua?
What's the alternative, would you rather Jacinda offer BP billions of our tax dollars to keep Marsden open? They made a commercial decision and gave NZ the middle finger in the process, your anger is misdirected.
@@katecarlisle8383 I think they did a large expansion some years ago (I remember seeing new pipes)?. But there is only a certain amount of heat under the ground, producing steam. So I think they are already at maximum output.
However, there are other thermal area's, but the 'societal minefield' (eg ruining the natural look of the pristine area, rights to access, percentage profit distribution to land owners, resource consents), makes it dead in the water already.
That guy knows his gas.
He is gassed up
It is soooooo easy to just extract GAS from our coal ! All it 'basically' requires is pumping steam through it to extract the gases. What is left over is pure carbon.
So....why are we not doing it Luxon & National? GET ON IT!
The Great Plains Synfuels Plant does that in the USA. They gasify coal and catalytically convert it to synthetic natural gas. It can also be converted to petrol and diesel with different catalysts and higher pressures.
We're not just burning Coal, we're also burning diesel which a a clear sign the panic button has been pressed hard.
The economic justification and logistics of gas import will be challenging:
- long lead time, >4 years?
- short life, payback required by 2050?
-low capacity utilization
- small import parcels (relative to typical)
- expensive equipment onshore, or bespoke ships required.
NZ is not a cheap-energy country anymore, even though many big industries depend on that.
Try positive thinking .
Didn't he say Europe kicked it in very quickly ?
No mention of the effect a seemingly never ending rise in immigration is having on energy demand. A stable pop. would stabilize demand, but could also lead, with investment in energy projects to a supply which could increase NZ's industrial production.
John Kidd stated that water was a zero cost fuel. Surely this relegates gas and coal to the least preferred options? Does this mean that the lake Onslow project was, especially long term, an excellent solution? In the extreme long term when there is no gas or coal, we'll be stuck with renewables only anyway. Another reason to control demand by setting a fixed pop. size.
If LNG can be imported at half the cost of domestic gas, why are we even worrying about further exploration? It makes no financial sense. If 50 bores have been drilled, and no gas has been found, why would investors want to risk throwing good money after bad?
Conclusion: import LNG until we have a long term sustainable/renewable energy supply???
John Kidd did not factor in the 'handouts' needed to use that free water. Just at Waitaki River, Southland, Meridian Energy are paying $180,000,000.00 over 35 years, for the ongoing requirements to assist nature, native fish and animals by funding the parties that look after them.
That's before you generate any money from the electricity being produced. And then you have the maintenance costs of the river, dam and grid on top of that. That must leave very little profit (just from that power plant) for Meridian, at the end of 35 years.
And already, in 2012 Meridian dropped it's plans on Project Aqua. The company has spent about $45 million on Project Aqua and another $50 million buying land in the Waitaki Valley.
The complexities of the Resource Consents forced them to go for a more lower power option via a tunnel network.
As for your 'poke' at immigration, March 2024 statistics showed New Zealand population grew by 130,700 and there was a net migration loss of 52,500 New Zealand citizens.
Which leaves a net migration gain of 163,600 non-New Zealand citizens, mainly citizens of India, the Philippines, China, and Fiji. If it wasn't for those immigrants coming in to fill the void of the jobs of those leaving, we would be in a worse predicament than we are already.
Considering the world population growth is tailing off and reducing each year, I expect you will get what you wish for, with a stable population in New Zealand, in perhaps 5 years time.
Or if it all turns to custard and net migration exceeds the 1980's and 2012 years, as was the saying back then, "Would the last person to leave New Zealand, please turn off the lights."
@@David-yo5ws we as a whole are much like our own brains, if we don't build a resilience to certain situations, we become placid unable to imagine life any other way. even when we want change, parts of us to cling to the past. we live very good lives here in new zealand, but alot of us lack skills because of our education system. its sad because we get people from countries who lack the upbringing with such technologies, educate them, them get them to work here, however, someone being taught the information slowly whilst growing up would have more knowledge. I have worked with many indians for example in IT and no maori what so ever, the indians are insufferable which I can only equate to growing up in the mountains with no computer, where for me I always had a computer. my worry was, it wasnt just one, it was too many to even count on my hands, not just whilst working, but studying as well. obviously this in bias on my end, but its just so many. not to be even more racist but japanese, Philippines and some Chinese were ALWAYS great workers but very rare, im sure these guys grew up with a computer. they were educated, specifically on technologies that our country uses, not "forced" with the promise of education, a job and a better life in another country. you end up working with people with no passion, and finding people who if given the right education, might be working right next to you. I dont think there is a solution, everything is to out in the open with the internet, alot of exploting got us to where we are today, and now we can no longer do it, mean while, our laws still allow others to exploit us. our distance doesnt help either, why would someone with skills who grew up here want to stay here?
@@MrCaesartheman I have been meaning to reply to your first-hand insight & today's the day. I liked the content.
I wrote a letter to the editor of a newspaper, that got published. And it was something along the lines of my struggle to get a job with ageism ripe in the local business's. It ended something like I would be joining the ranks of immigrants, in applying for jobs.
I have a friend, brought up in NZ, whose parents were both from India. He has no computer skills at all. Nor do his brothers & sisters. But they have fantastic memories and are kind and compassionate. He used to run a business that employed 7 people. Then a competing company moved into the region & that was that. It does seem like there are certain skills for different ethnic groups. But that's the dynamics of diversity and I think NZ does a good job to embrace that well, compared to a lot of other country's. A big company I used to work for, sent a few of us to Australia to do a course in diversity. Well that was an eye-opener. It showed how you really had to understand other cultures, because they have such a different way of decision making. You just have to try & alter settings on an android cellphone to see that! So you accept diversity in the workforce or you segregate groups in the workforce. Just speaking to an agricultural manager really highlighted the negativeness between some cultures picking crops. If they were not in separate groups, fights would break out. At the moment, our government is applying 'tough love' & stopping the gravy train in many area.
But with 80 'baby boomers' retiring every day & an aging population with more dementia & stroke cases growing, we need immigrants who can care for our senior citizens, more than those that can operate a computer. All of the political parties knew this day would come & none of them prepared for it. Just like they knew our oil & gas would run out. But investments in new technologies, could help turn the tide. The tide that is supposed to rise by a meter in about 10 years. Nature is the ruler of the world. We just blow in the wind, to whatever way it pushes us. May the breeze be soft upon your back.
stable long term demand isnt really possible yet
energy needs are exponential everywhere
this has nothing to do with immigrants
every individual person uses 10x the energy they did a decade ago
and they will use 10x more in 10 years
its all of us, and it has been for decades
we are always planning new generators
its not other peoples fault, its our own
the better way to manage power
would be to take the 75% renewable energy we have
and make up that extra 25% with nuclear
nuclear is a safe alternative we choose not to use
the ultimate plan was to allow gas
to be taken from certain nz regions
and then to force the gas market to slowly crash
that is exactly whats happening and people are complaining
its fair, but it was also planned
and yes funding them would throw a huge amount of money away
and potentially lock new Zealand into throwing more away later
the deal wants to incentivise new energy
and part if that is making nz accountable
on the off chance that they fail we pay out
at the very least, that clause must be removed
but ideally, we actually let gas crash
that is the goal we want
we dont need it and will have to let go eventually
the sooner the better, there will never be a good time
it will always be a painful departure with an adjustment period
Obviously outside private investors will only be enticed if they can make money. Shame the assets were all sold off back in the day.
If only Nats had forethought
Green waste + Limestone powder + water = Natural Gas! 🤝
Wasted gas, wasted hydro for 40 years.
New subscriber here. Awesome channel maddison. Real news rite here that we need to hear about. Thank you again
Man you make good content Madison.
Thank you 🙏
No they don’t they sell it all to India and China and members of the bricks nations they don’t need the west we are back in the wrong team here
Very, very informative. This is the first time I've heard about the ease of importing gas.
something #nz needs to seriously figure out probably 20 years ago.
Lol that was when the problem began...selling of SOE's
Excellent reporting of a real issue for NZ.
Madison is very captivating and with her fierce eyes while throwing those questions, no souls can escape her. Thanks for asking though tough questions for us.
👀
They found lots of gas at Wairoa 1997. Capped all the wells?
very difficult to get out as sloughing formations. I drilled there.
Thanks for this wake up ....Incredible that with so much hydro we have there most expensive electricity ... Max Bradford allowing the energy sector to be privatised was a national crime. If it were nationalised, returning the asset to the NZ people it would be a start. Marsden point being shut down was another travesty, with Maui A and B running down for their last 3 or so years and a government that doesn't encourage drilling ,we are living in interesting times.
Great stuff Madison, recently subscribed. Your excellent questions created an interesting interview and I really enjoyed the slightly longer format vid. Keep up the great work!
We can thank Cindy and her muppets for this scenario ...🙁
And Max Bradford and National for privatizing half of the generation. If it was fully owned by New Zealanders we could have had more supply built and lower prices. Instead we have overseas shareholders taking payments causing higher electrify prices. The CEOs are focused on increasing shareholders profits not cheap prices for New Zealanders. We have 20% generation consented but nobody is building it because it is not profitable for the shareholders.
There was 50 “low risk” wells that all failed. The existing ones are producing less. Perhaps this industry is not as reliable and scientific as one might think?
Would you invest on those odds?
Gas was too cheap to mine, simple. And there is planned obsolescence from back in 2000. Not news to anyone paying attention.
Did you even listen? Drilling wasn't banned it's just that there has been a truckload of uneconomic wells drilled.
And the gas they have just been flaring since 1990...
Thank you for the new video
Does Russia sell it on the cheap at the moment?
So you want to buy from a terrorist DICTATORSHIP?
only if you want to support the terrorist state
Awesome work Maddie, you're one of the only credible journalists we've got in this country these days! Don't know how you handle working alongside some of those other ninnies in the industry... Keep it up though!
Labour pops up again as the cause of this
Do we really want to increase our energy and economic reliance by importing another commodity rather than developing our own source?
@16:49 "and you know frankly you know New Zealand has lost its attraction over the last few years because of the direction of political travel in the last two terms of government so you know to to take away um New Zealand is now a country that is risk on whereas previously that just wasn't the case"
“Risk on” is sticking with Fossil fuels that even the US it’s dumping in favor of cheaper renewables. NZ is stuck in the past century.
Looks like the majority of commenters either didn't watch the video or didn't understand what is talked about around 17:20.
The steel mill at Glen brook burns 4oo tons of coal 24.7 a day they use coal from Indonesia, landed cheaper than Huntly coal that's why they use it
Why isn't nz investing in tidal energy more? We're a costal country.
Auckland East Vs West coast are on different timetables, it could work.
If imported gas is half the price of NZ gas, why does Methanex use so much of it? How do NZers benefit from Methanex?
Insane that NZ hasn't forced Methanex and Tiwai to close. They produce next to no GDP yet the power and gas prices they are causing are bankrupting en masse NZ manufacturing (and households when regulated prices rise to recover wholesale costs).
Look up the daily cost of a LNG vessel sitting in dock ssssllllooowwwlllyyyyy bleeding gas and tell me how much that gas will cost per unit vs domestic gas
Recent analysis shows the LCOE for solar and wind production in New Zealand is around $70 per megawatt, geothermal around $90 per megawatt, but gas and coal-fired plants upward of $170 per megawatt.23 May 2021
Since published, solar and wind have gone down another 30% whereas gas prices have risen so why are we talking to these gas energy curmudgeons?
Because wind generation is intermittant, and turbines only have a lifespan of 20 years. Countries with the greatest penetration of wind and solar in their grids have the most expensive electricity.
@@shanecollie5177 demand is intermittent as well and even if we have steady state power generation, battery storage is still incredibly effective at balancing the grid. Even Auckland has a huge utility grade Tesla battery for that exact reason. Matching intermittent supply with fluctuating demand is an engineering problem which is best facilitated by adding storage to the grid. For example if every vehicle in New Zealand was electric then they could be used to absorb power when there was no demand and could even be engineered to supply power back to the grid when needed.
America which is self-sufficient in fossil fuels has installed over 80% of its new capacity in the past five years as wind and solar which is a testimonial to the most cost-effective evolution of a grid. Comparing different energy production methods is difficult if you are only looking at the cost of energy at the retail level. If you take all of the fossil fuel subsidies into account you can easily make the argument that subsidies reduce their cost by 75% but if even a tiny subsidy is applied to renewables there is a clamoring of unfairness from the fossil fuel industry who by the way have corrupted every government on earth. Most of the talking points I hear during discussions of renewable energy come directly from the fossil fuel industry not exactly a trusted source. They are the ones who spend over billion dollars a year in producing anti-humanity propaganda. Unless you haven’t been paying attention they’re also the onesresponsible for starting most of the large wars since World War II. I cautioned the ethics of promoting their talking points.
@@colingenge9999 E.P.A data show electricity generation by source in the U.S.A is 38.4% natural gas, 21.9% coal,18.9% nuclear. Demand is not near as intermittant as wind energy supply, wind generation can easily ( and frequently does) drop to near zero, and can do so for days at a time. When historical wind frequency patterns are studied, (UK) it is concluded that a wind base load generation requires a minimum 9 days storage. The cost of that is enormous, for example, at current battery prices, the cost to provide battery storage on the isle of mann (for their proposed wind only generation)is 3.6 billion pounds, for a population of 85,000 , with no heavy industry.Renewables in the usa provide 21% of electricity production,yet recieve 46% of all electric energy subsidies, fossil fuels, which account for over 60% of generation recieve 13% of subsidies (source US E.I.A)
@@shanecollie5177Yes wind it intermittent but so is demand so in any scenario battery storage will smooth out supply and offset demand spikes that happen daily. The LCOE(life cycle cost of energy) includes insulation operation maintenance and decommissioning of the entire system. The LCOE of Wynan solar in New Zealand is less than half that cost of natural gas energy generation. You cannot simply dismiss renewables as being intermittent because every energy supply is intermittent to some degree based on the avail of water for Hydro, maintenance schedules and powerline disruptions. Battery storage plays a key roll in a power grid.
In the past decade 80% of all new energy installations in the USA were wind solar with battery storage which is occurring in a country that has a plentiful and supply of natural gas. New Zealand does not have an adequate supply of natural gas concluding that solar and battery storage is even more cost-effective.
Were there a wind turbine last for one year or 50 years is all included in the LCOE which looks at the lifecycle cost of any energy production source.
@@shanecollie5177 Germany $0.40/kWh, Denmark $0.38
New Zealand has some of the biggest gas reserves (clathrates) in the world, within its EEG. The consequences of extracting this come with enormous economic and environmental impact.
This is a hard one, but given there is investment coming to fruition, perhaps importing the necessary commodities makes the most sense?
This is also happening in Australia too As our old power grids get chewed up even more by AI and Data Bases which are very high in Water usage to cool down these big techno buildings
Watched DW Doco yesterday regarding this global crisis too 🕊😇🧐
Great question….why haven’t we. When you have unqualified ministers doing an industries job and also not putting structure around forecasting disaster you end up panicking and it won’t fix itself over night. From what I have read we have enough petrol coming out of the ground to service all our needs but we don’t have a refinery to do it. I hear Australia gets it all lol. Marsden point can’t do it even if it was running. This will probably take 10 years to solve.
You can thank Ardern for this. She closed Marsden pt and banded new exploration
Marsden was closed by the owners because it wasn’t profitable. Nothing to do with politics.
@@colingenge9999 Hey man, can you please not let facts get in the way of some suckers vibes based politics??
Did you watch the video? About $2b spent on drilling 50 wells over the last 5 years. The current problem has nothing to do with the ban.
Yeah.....thanks Jacinda.
Wrong. If the ban on exploration stayed in place it would have eventually effected supply. I takes about ten years to develop a new field so the ban would not have been felt until 2028.
There are at least eight factors that have led us to where we are today with natural gas.
Edit: Typo, changed 2023 to 2028 (based on the most recent offshore discoveries would have been before the 2018 offshore exploration ban).
@@rcarterbrown1 You know it's 2024....right ?
@@rcarterbrown1 Yeah the 8 factors are all ministers of the last Labour government.
Do you think that the 50 dry wells wasting $2 Billion in exploration funds might have been a factor. "Cindy" put few restrictions on onshore drilling. There are 3 offshore permits still not drilled. Now that Shane Jones has said "do whatever you want" why don't you and a few mates raise an extra few $billion and drill a few more holes? Take up the opportunity that all of the oil majors have left on the table.
Really liking your content. Very interesting seeing interviews with different sectors of our country
Whats wrong with our west coast coal??
Goes to Japan doesn't it?
We export our good coal and import shit coal, go figure
We do import gas from Australia
No coal they keep killing off our miners. Class action Pike River.
It's not fit for purpose,coal has many varieties.
It’s a real shame that we’re doing this to ourselves.
Great interview Madison. Thank you.
Great guest. Excellent interview!
NZ rested on its laurels for almost a decade not roling out meaningful wind and almost zero solar. You now produce not much more than HALF the wind power of Brazil (as % of power - 7.8% vs 13.5%). In 2013 that was 4.7% vs 1.1% in NZs favour.
As to solar a pitiful 0.5% of power is from that source vs 7.3% in Brazil.
Fact is NZ shouldn't need gas for power AT ALL between hyro, solar, wind and geothermal + battery storage. Solar and wind are critical to allow run of river hydro to have sufficient water in storage so it can run at max capacity at the morning and evening peaks.
We don't have a gas supply problem. What we have is an energy supply problem. And that's down to the way the electricity market runs - it incentivises the leading suppliers to have juuuust enough capacity and no more. Any more and they dent their profits. There's huge capacity consented and not being built, there's plenty of opportunities for solar on every big business' roof. We need to find a mechanism for increasing supply without relying on decisions in the board rooms of Meridian and Genesis. Or changing their decision making.
Back in the 1960s and 1970s when engineers were running the electricity system we had good supplies. This is what happens when people with a profit motive take over. They enrich themselves from the volatility, and never mind the damage to everyone else.
Edit: You are right, Madison - this episode is important.
And the population back then was ?
@@thatdave86 Made of humans.
Clearly need to increase Geothermal electricity production to bolster 24/7 base loads. Solar and wind have there place but both have limitations. Geothermal cranks regardless of weather or time of day.
The writing has been on the wall for decades on this industry. Talking to someone with huge bias toward the status quo won't give us any answers to our energy issues... We had plans to increase renewable power security through storage at lake onslow etc... We don't need to be having conversations any more on a dead industry. We should be investing into the future like stopping building any new homes with gas connections etc.
Nice roundup of NZ energy situation, but why didnt you ask the obvious question regarding coal imports ,theres coal on the west coast?
"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).
Rubbish, pure and simple
Hydro dams built 70 years ago have generated far more energy than was used to build and maintain them
@@Goodkiwibloke One cannot fathom how much energy used to build and maintain a hydro dam (actually, any system of energy, too).
If a barrel of diesel bought at the petrol station to run a shovel building the dam, then how much energy expended until that barrel of diesel made it from deep in the underground in Saudi Arabia ending at the last point of use?
How much energy went to build the petrol station that sold the diesel, the energy consumed as food for the operator of the petrol station? - and so on and on...
Nature has taken millions of years to create fossil fuels, the 70-200 years the hydro dam will be lasting is nothing.
Finite fossil fuels are dangerously hypnotic to humans, their consciousness, reasoning and mental capacity.
Humans were not ready morally, ethically and intellectually to start the mass extraction of fossil fuels with the advent of the steam engine 300 years ago.
"No matter how highly mechanised and self-powered, fossil fuels extraction requires a number of people as if the process is executed by hands using buckets and ropes - by physics".
Today, this number is 8 billion people - working flat out 24/7 - strong.
Madison Reidy, you and I are among those, too.
There's a coal mine in Huntly right down the road 😂😂😂
The fix is to regulate the generation companies to force them to build more generation instead of focusing on profits for shareholders.
The generation companies should have to invest annually x amount of new generation for y amount of profits. If they don't they should be taxed the x amount extra and that money used by the government to invest in generation. We once had super cheap electricity prices then privatization destroyed that, now New Zealanders are playing higher prices to keep overseas shareholders happy.
What kind of generation? Thermal generation that actually works? Or wind solar batteries scams?
NZ is not a communist country, and the power companies are not the cause of the problem
If you actually listened, you would realise that
1. Hydro Lakes are very low (blame nature for that, maybe force nature to make it rain in the right places, or tax nature if it doesn't comply)
2. The last government scared away investment in gas drilling (perhaps those who voted for them should be taxed at a higher rate to oay for the damage that tinkerbell caused, or maybe tinkerbell should be incarcerated for damages caused)
3. There are solutions, but cost is high, so who pays (when all costs will just be passed back onto consumers anyway)
@@Goodkiwibloke That is not communism, where do you get that logic from? If the people like the polices they will vote for them.
"Hydro Lakes are very low " and that is known to happen that is why you build extra capacity THAT IS THE GENERATORS FAULT.
"so who pays", not the shareholders of the generators do they.
@@gregorymalchuk272 "wind solar batteries scams?" shows that you lack knowledge in the industry, do you have industry certification? Wind and solar farms are highly cost effective. If you look the levelised cost of generation written by many sources all around the world you would understand. And look at our turbines, they are some of the most efficient in the world due to our constant wind. You think generators are going to build stuff that isn't cost effective? Are serious? You think they don't study the economics? Do some research, don't listen to an idiot American politician.
Regulate and they will leave
Subsidies by way of less red tape to prospect and construct using tax relief on investments that supply NZ rather than other nations and investors will line up.
NZ needs to develop the primary sector especially mining and gas
But LNG investment also makes sense
Russian gas is cheap right now, .... no reason not to import some. Oh wait, its politics.
They can only export crude oil now, and we no longer have a refinery it was closed years ago, therefore even if we could import it there is nothing we can do with it
@@ytzpilot Russia? They are exporting lots of LNG. Europe in spite of sanctions get 20% from Russia because there are no alternatives, EU will be screwed when the current deals run out. Also lots of oil - Russia stopped exports of refined oil products to avoid too high prices domestically but lots of crude is still exported to Europe through middlemen. But getting Russian oil that way is not recommended, pricey.
We don't have any import facilities here in NZ. And all capacity for construction of them is in use by the Europeans.
@@steinbauge4591 there are no LNG pipelines to New Zealand, they are shipping crude by ship and doing ship to ship transfers at sea to get around sanctions, that one remaining Pipeline to Europe is currently under Ukraine control so that’s not good for the Russians. They used to refine and export but that is no longer the case
Spineless
If National didn't cancel the Onslow hydro battery, we would be working towards an actual solution.
Not necessarily so. If Onslow goes ahead, the big gentailers will just factor that capacity into their own future investment plans, and we'll be back to square one soon. Their job is to maximise profits, not guarantee to keep the lights on (that's down to Government).
It's a damn shame we don't have our own coal
No. Dam shame the electricity generators are not forced to build more production instead of maximizing shareholders profits.
Have to get our electricity supply more diversified. I’m working on a plan.
We have 10 years of gas and plenty of fields available for exploration, if we reopen exploration we should be ok.
Renewables aren’t worth the investment, they simply don’t work well enough.
The gas companies aren't interested in investing in NZ after Ardern shafted them .
I'm surprised the NZ government and utilities haven't seen this coming for years. Diversifying the electricity supply with renewables like wind and solar could have avoided this issue. Especially with high energy prices renewables are very competitive.
These are not practice to replace gas or coal as both are uncontrollable. When grid demand spikes we can’t increase wind speed or prevent clouds blocking out the sun…. Not to mention darkness at night.
@@BB-lj1xv That is correct. But it can decrease fossil fuel demand sharply when there is sunshine and wind, thereby leading to decreased system costs and longer term energy security. And while you can't increase the wind speed, you can increase the capture rate of wind energy with modern turbines. In my country of the Netherlands onshore wind energy is the cheapest form of energy available.
So subsidise domestic solar and battery, people could put power back on to the grid during peak times when demand is high and no-one is home. Oh wait, where is the profit in that?
and whilst the Greens came into power with Labour in 2017 (7 years ago) they said we don't need oil and gas because the future will give us an alternative... and we are still waiting... what time scale was this?
I hope your show grows
Nz running out of gas... Australia - Hold my beer....
Imagine being thw biggest gas supplier in the world and running out of gas ☠️
Question …..do the greens and labour need to be held accountable for stopping exploitation? We seem to get hamstrung because the government isn’t spending money of infrastructure.
Question then, based on this do the Nats need to be held accountable for privatizing energy in the first place which saw billions in profit go to shareholders? Imagine if we didn't keep selling our souls for profit and instead re-invested that money into renewables instead? We would be well ahead of the curve on emissions and have saved billions in carbon offsets that National is refusing to budget for. Guess who ends up bailing out farmers and energy when we don't meet our Paris agreements? WE the tax payers. Cool story man. Banning exploration was important. We need to move forward and stop burning fossil fuels.
@@beeftan great question. When you have investment money coming in it has the potential to grow the economy. I think having the clause of not full ownership means we still have equity and the risk is 50/50. When you have shareholders you loose the focus on the people (users) and it become all about making profit for shareholders. If we realised still how great we actually have it compared to the rest of the world maybe we can compromise but when it’s either all about social or all about business how do we compromise? I suppose that’s why we have coalition. Labour and greens together are 2 one sided. How do we make change happen? Btw I’m not 100% national either but a country needs to be run as a business not a social experiment. I was really hoping we could have put money into our health. These people train to give for the rest of their lives. They should be paid well to keep us well. :)
@@michaelbooth1097 Ok well assuming we NEED to run the country as a business we should assume that the primary asset is the people. The people are the primary income generation. What happens if you consistently starve your workforce? Of course they leave for greener pastures and you have to hire new cheaper labour. We see this now with New Zealand and the mass departure of skilled workers for greener pastures. Man if we only just taxed fairly and invested in future projects this country could continue to be great. At this rate if we follow the failed principles of trickle down economics we are going to implode. It is not sustainable to encourage investment in housing and not tax capital gains. Home ownership rates continue to fall since the 80's, prices will continue to go up because businesses only care about profit. Feudalism 2.0
@michaelbooth1097 both sides are "too one-sided", and just as bad as each other. NZ needs some bipartisan long-term strategic goals for all sorts of things, to stop the bs we have now where a new government's default position is to roll over whatever the previous government put in place. It’s wasteful, inefficient, and serves the humble taxpayer very poorly over the long haul. I've encouraged both our kids to look further afield, because I really don't see a 1/4 acre Pavlova paradise future for them here - and that sheets back to decades of poor, self serving three year focused government policy on both sides, and no long term vision.
@@petercroft9895 I can agree that they are both are one sided. So the national government has come in at the bottom of the bell curve. 50 thousand businesses have shut shop. It’s not the best place to be for a government coming into power. Correct me if I’m wrong but it takes around 7 years to turn it back to the top or it’s 7 years in total ….. anyway it’s a hard time to win over people but it’s a great time for people to recognise that like the government you need to what what you spend. I to have encouraged my kids to make wise choices on the types of job they get for the future and 3 are looking overseas for work. You have hit the nail on the head there Peter. Thanks for the reply
If Genesis burned New Zealand coal at Huntly and EV owners were encouraged to drive petrol vehicles in the short term while the country was short of energy from green energy sources, would this contribute more CO2 emissions or less than importing low grade coal and transporting liquified gas by ship?
The problem is not EVs. The problem is lack of construction of supply. Plenty of consented projects ready to build but oversupply of electricity is not profitable for the shareholders.
@@AORD72 Electricity created by burning gas and coal, transmitting down high voltage lines, and converting to low voltage power for consumers to charge EVs has considerable energy loss and definitely a higher carbon footprint than driving a petrol hybrid and possibly worse than driving an efficient petrol car. If a lack of construction of electricity supply is an issue do you think the previous government should have invested in electricity infrastructure rather than giving rich people a grant to buy EVs that we don't have the infrastructure to supply green electrical energy to charge.
Petrol cost New Zealand $.15 per kilometer for a Prius or $.33 per kilometer for a full size car all imported Energy. Instead we have unlimited wind which would cost with battery storage about six cents to kilowatt hour which would enable us to power those same cars for less than two cents for a kilometer. It is total insanity importing for transportation. Diesel is even worse because the healthcare cost of diesel is 4 to 5 times what that is for petrol the healthcare cost alone would pay for substituting for electrified vehicles.
@@colingenge9999Battery storage is a cargo cult. It doesn't exist and can't power industrial civilization.
Currently CO2 levels are 0.04%
we just need more solar and wind to do what gas once did. its just not here yet. need to build it
we wouldnt have this problem if jacinda hadnt closed marsden point and close our oil rigs
You should watch the footage again.
If only New Zealand had coal reserves
pike river.
@@richardcoutts2198 Metallurgical coal .
@@stewatparkpark2933So sell or smelt with the good coal, and import Indonesian thermal coal.
There’s no royalties from buying someone else’s gas. It cash flow out
Banning any more drilling permits in NZ will make 0 difference to global emissions, world demand remains exactly the same ,in fact its growing. The exploration companies have simply packed up, taken their funds and equipment and gone to other countries to drill. The world is still hopelessly dependent on fossel fuels. Generating power with your own gas from a pipeline is far more efficient than importing coal and LNG. I'm all for rooftop solar however it's a long long way from generating enough to support industries like steel mills, dairy, pulp and paper to name a few, there are a lot of days when the sun doesn't shine in NZ. We could just kiss all these industries goodbye and loose thousands of jobs and billions in revenue, once again demand for these products would remain the same or grow as population increases and other countries would just increase their production to fulfill the demand. I'm all for clean green energy and I would love to see more of it however the day we make enough of it to replace fossil fuels completely is a long away if ever. The world is still hopelessly dependent on fossil fuels and I don't see why we should destroy our small fragile economy to make a token gesture to the environment while industrial giants like China and USA have a carbon footprint thousands of times worse than us and that's not likely to change in the next few decades.
Australia exported such a high proportion of its gas production it now has a domestic supply problem. We export a heap of ours in the form of methanol so we now have a similar result. Lack of control of well flow rates also impacts badly on reservoir life expectancy which definitely doesn't help. Looking at you Petrocorp.
We had a storage strategy proposed in the form of Lake Onlow but TPTB are too invested in short term solutions to think that far down the line. Storage of electricity is so much easier and safer than for fossil fuels. Combined with EV uptake this could be attained to a large degree by way of V2G connection of these 'batteries on wheels'. The instinctive fallback to ICE vehicles by the interviewee speaks volumes about his engrained biases towards fossil fuels. Domestic solar is capable of charging EVs with minimal reliance on the grid and its 'coal reliant' generation and requires no importation and foreign fund expenditure.
Exporting gas as methanol and then importing natural gas as LNG is a very expensive and potentially dangerous solution. Good luck convincing any NZ port facility to construct an LNG terminal and definitely not near, or upwind, of a population center. Let's face it, an LNG ship is potentially a floating bomb! And of course LNG appeals to the industry as it will breath new life into existing infrastructure.
Laying the blame on the lack of gas production now on the lap of the previous government's exploration ban is arguable. NZ is remote geographically with typically small hydrocarbon reservoir geology which makes it both expensive and high risk for exploration. Mining licence tenders were going unsold prior to the ban so the trend was already developing of drilling decline. The risk of remediation of any 'event' also makes NZ less than attractive and our older fields carry the liability load of end of life remediation.
TLDR, develop renewable generation capacity and electrify our lives and transportation as much as reasonable. Stop selling off the remains of our gas as methanol or making urea, and don't even consider selling LNG. Build resilience into our energy sector by investing in storage such as by pumped hydro. If we keep living based on burning hydrocarbons we don't have future.
NZ stuck in past century where developed economies are moving from gas stoves say because the health care cost of the indoor pollution would more than pay for clean renewables. Even Texas is eliminating natural gas for energy production because wind and solar with battery storage are cheaper.
That doesn't reduce gas demand if your power is generated substantially from gas.
@@gregorymalchuk272 My point is that if we took the costs to maintain gas powered energy production and the health care costs associated with the burning of nat gas, we could afford a renewable energy system given that the lower cost of renewables would strand all our nat gas assets making them next to useless by end of decade.
Similarly, since EVs cost two per kilometer versus the average petrol part vehicle at $.25 per kilometer we could easily afford a complete electrified transportation system with the money we are throwing away on fossil fuels.
Bollocks, battery storage is enormously expensive
Texas is dropping natural gas because there’s more money in LNG export numb nuts 🤡
@@shanecollie5177 I agree that batteries are expensive but look at the return on investment. If you are truly interested in the value of different power generation methods I suggest you look at rethinkX and follow the LCOE of various energy production options.
One example of the ROI of a large utility scale battery was the first one to be installed in Australia at the Hornesdale power plant about five years ago. The battery cost $94 million and pays back $42 million every year plus for no extra cost stabilizes the grid. in fact the battery worked out so well that Australia has now changed their policy completely on utility grade storage batteries and now has a $564 million battery on order because it will pay itself off in a very few years and eliminate the need for peaker plants.
The environmental benefits of not burning fossil fuels not only don’t cost money but wind up saving money.
NZ continuing to see power generation in terms of last century’s technology will leave us with a fractured economy with no chance of recovery unless we continue to rely on selling our land to offset cash outflows for Fossil Fuels.
May be time for a central Nuclear Power facility
Brilliant. Highly knowledgeable interviewee. Thanks!
To speak of renewables and Cindy in the same breath talk to us about her brokering the sale of most of NZ’s solar industry to Blackrock. With the help of Tindal’s investment fund.
There is and has always been an endless supply of gas in Wellington....
This will accelerate the shift to electric conversion from gas. Look into Transcritical CO2 hot water boilers. This is the future.
Why on earth are we not minig more coal... and work on development of tech to make it more efficient and effective?
ANOTHER EXCELLENT INTERVIEW WELL CONSTRUCTED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS😄
We got heaps last government sucked here
If coal is what the system needs then why are countries around the world commissioning massive battery storage peaker plants ?
It's no wonder jacinda buggered off before all this hit the fan...
We are such a wasteful country with energy . That should be the first port of call , not imports. Just as it was with our “ recycling” , when others said , no, to taking our recycling, we actually had to look at what we were doing, and it looked ugly. Well, our energy use is not much difference.
Yeah , just go to bed at 6pm .
+1🏆 for helping us get an insight into quite a complex situation
If only Nz didn’t keep putting all its eggs in one basket
Can we cloud seed rain to where we need it?🤔 or just make hurricanes and shit
At the start the desk reflection looks like Madison is doing yoga.
A few families in New Zealand made a lot of money selling gas and oil .. maybe they could put there hands in there pockets to help out….
And yet the govt is still pushing EV's. How on earth do they expect them to be able to be charged unless the rest of Kiwi's have to suffer to allow the few EV owners to be able to drive to work ?
They capped heaps of gas wells
All by design
I always found NZL to want everything on the cheap with very poor wages…