I really don't like Oculus in a push infested meta, and Jorge is unsure about this list but whether be this a genius deckbuilding and/or genius play on EW on your part I'm happy for you, even more so for doing so well with a shrimp deck! Congratulations champ, your consistent results are amazing.
In one of your last videos, I mused about how I think that Consign is a better play in Maindeck than Fluster, and I think that your showing against Forge Combo in game one was more than enough proof. Consign is a dirty, filthy card in the meta right now.
Yeah, just at the surface, considering control and most white-removal decks have been pushed out, Dreadnought seems better positioned than usual. Having Frogs to either eat up the removal or carry the game also seems solid.
It’s funny, round 1 consign probably even beats reanimate since they’re very likely to go for the fanatic chain line, which would get stopped before the archon. That’s an interesting weakness to those lines
It was with Foundations, they removed Blockers order and instead made it into assigning damage as the attacker determined. This was an attempt to make aggressive decks more favored on clogged boards, and to sinplify combat for new players
Hey love the deck. Just wondering It u felt the dreadnought relevant in the ew and the rest of the testing. I Guess so If u played, but honestly from the video It seems Just u win with frog plows and force and the rest Is Just a preference in cards. Hope u see this. Love ❤
...this is probably a stupid question, but can you profitably run Uro/Dreadnought/Stifle/Consign with a midgame plan of also being able to stifle Uro's sac trigger? My assumption is that's too slow or clunky or people would be doing it more, but.
In slower formats that deck has been viable. Legacy games are decided on turn 2 right now, hard to justify a 4 mana play that costs 7 if you don’t “combo”
I'm wondering why we're not running some number of urza's saga. I understand not being able to fit 4 saga's into a 3 color deck, but not seeing 1 in the 75 feels strange.
What land(s) are you cutting for it? What 1-drop artifacts are you adding so it still makes sense when you board out dreadnought? What are you cutting for those artifacts? Do all those changes improve the deck against the expected field?
@@jacklatorre4167 With the release of Foundations, the attacker now has complete control of how the damage is assigned among blocking creatures in the event of a multi-block rather than assigning a blocking order which damage is then systematically applied along. The primary implication of this is that now you don't have to deal damage to certain creatures if there's some reason you wouldn't want to.
Because it’s flexible and lines up really well vs multiple answers. It can out scale Delver/DRC, it can single handedly race Stompy, discarding dead cards for clock, it discards Reanimate targets, exiles instant sorcery for murk to combat trick, it removes card types from the yard to mess with goyph
It's not that discarding a card to pump is that good in itself, but it's an extra tool that comes for free with your draw engine. You don't need to discard cards when it's not good in the matchup (for example, against decks with fatal push), but the option is there against decks that can't beat a big creature. The general trend seems to be that any 1-2 mana threat that can generate card advantage is broken in the wasteland-daze-cantrip shell (dreadhorde arcanist, ravagan, wrenn). Psychic frog is that plus some extra text on top.
2 dreadnoughts as a payoff for main decking consign to memory seems perfect. But vexing bauble seems ok to me. You were able to play around it and still win. Consign to memory is an answer to vexing bauble, after all.
At least people arent begging for frog to get banned, I find it an extremely intresting card. Its either a small card advantage machine or an extremely risking game ending threat if your willing to go all in and discard your hand and pray they cant answer it. I think its far too soon to talk about banning anything from the forge deck. Just a few weeks ago people were complaining about reanimator should be banned. I feel like something is wrong with magic players. They constantly say that something needs to get banned. Its never ending. The moment a top deck appears it needs to be gutted.
It's because Reanimator and Forge combo are both extremely oppressive to nearly all parts of what defined Legacy, with Eldrazi (read, Sowing Mycospawn) also being guilty of the sins of MH3. "Force keeps combo decks in check." Not with Bauble. "Basic are hard to deal with." Mycospawn eliminates that. "Hand disruption can break up combo." Psychic Frog and Reanimator overall can just dodge that. "Greedy mana bases can be ruined by Blood Moon, Wasteland, and now, Harbinger of the Seas." Yeah, Troll of Kázadúm just sidesteps that
I do not think Vexing Bauble should be banned. Its finally put some other decks on the table. So what if blue isnt doing well with it, its been dominant far too long. If the Eldrazi Combo deck is too strong, ban something else.. I'd not be unhappy with a monolith ban for instance. Cards far too expensive anyways, and it afaik only sees play in colorless combo decks.
Combo still has to go through the same steps as any other deck you need to play draw and mulligan well. It’s not immune to those facts of this game. Eternal weekend Europe proved that bauble isn’t a format breaker 0 copies in top 8. Mystic forge dident run away with the event again because the players adapted and shifted where it needed to to keep it in check. Forge isn’t an auto your going to do well at a major event the deck dump from the event proved that. All true records combined show it performed sub par at best
Bauble is the only thing making non blue decks playable and it’s insane people are whining about about one tournament result. Bauble is healthy in the format. Force, Daze, FoN should be punished.
No. Flat out no. There is a large difference between proactive tools and reactive tools. Bauble severely restricts the ability to interact or forces interaction to be used on it. This very easily enables any number of degenerate combos that would've been kept in check by the forces and daze. Bauble also (like any proactive lock piece) restricts future design space, where reactive options don't nearly as severely. You have to be extremely careful what you print when there exists a 1 mana solution that shuts off most interaction. On to your comment about the color... There have been good red decks for a while in legacy, and while it is a little unfortunate that the forces are blue (I think it would be better for legacy if all colors had similar interactive options), it isn't the end of the world that blue is good and has an identity for interaction
Bauble isn't helping Lands, D&T, etc., though. These are pushed out of the format. It is all tempo, combo or some hybrid. If Vexing Bauble actually helped the grindy, taxy decks, I'd be happy. Instead, it is enabling the storm decks, Mystic Forge decks, etc., push the control decks out, so there is no answer to tempo. We end up with all Frog and Combo and it is sad.
Congratulations on your Prauge run! Both vintage and legacy
Congratulations on the absolute dominance this weekend!!!
I always commented on Brian taking a dreadnought deck to eternal weekend, and he finally did it !!!
I got Bluesky just to watch the updates I would refresh every hour just to keep cheering you on
Here we are, anticipating the weekend recap video :)
The hand at 12:21 fills my soul
I really don't like Oculus in a push infested meta, and Jorge is unsure about this list but whether be this a genius deckbuilding and/or genius play on EW on your part I'm happy for you, even more so for doing so well with a shrimp deck! Congratulations champ, your consistent results are amazing.
I KNEW esper was well positioned in this meta! Nice work!
In one of your last videos, I mused about how I think that Consign is a better play in Maindeck than Fluster, and I think that your showing against Forge Combo in game one was more than enough proof. Consign is a dirty, filthy card in the meta right now.
Congrats man, amazing weekend :D
CONGRATS ON BOTH YOUR TOP8S!
Congrats on the double top 8!
congrats on the insane tournament run !
Yeah, just at the surface, considering control and most white-removal decks have been pushed out, Dreadnought seems better positioned than usual. Having Frogs to either eat up the removal or carry the game also seems solid.
It’s funny, round 1 consign probably even beats reanimate since they’re very likely to go for the fanatic chain line, which would get stopped before the archon. That’s an interesting weakness to those lines
Congrats on EW run! Going to need a new resleevables ad soon though XD
Yes we’ve been planning that and working on making new assets for 2 weeks.
Congrats on the results!!
Oof that topdeck stp in m2g1 is so sick, that poor elf player
Very cool list!
But I'm starting being abstinent from Loam Pox. I know you, and I'm sure I'll be satisfied sooner or later. The question is: when? XD
@16:48 you mentioned some rules change on blocking/assigning or ordering blockers/damage? What change and when was this?
It was with Foundations, they removed Blockers order and instead made it into assigning damage as the attacker determined. This was an attempt to make aggressive decks more favored on clogged boards, and to sinplify combat for new players
This is the deck I wanted to play eternal weekend us.
22:13 Here we go gang!
When you say mind twist what does that refer to? As in : bolt the mind twist.
When talking about swords on birds.
opp has to force bauble or their free interaction is useless for the rest of the game so it’s like 1 mana -2 cards in a way
Did you sign the Ponders as Brian or Bosh?
our hero!!!
I think the deck might be focus in aggressive Curie+Dreadnought with maindeck sagas. When frog pass away, this deck will transform. We will see....
Hey love the deck. Just wondering It u felt the dreadnought relevant in the ew and the rest of the testing. I Guess so If u played, but honestly from the video It seems Just u win with frog plows and force and the rest Is Just a preference in cards.
Hope u see this. Love ❤
Any thoughts on void mirror as an Sb option specifically for forge combo? I have a player in my group that drops this on us on the reg
That costs 2, so it’s already too slow on the draw. Also forge plays Planar Nexus, Lotus Petal, and Mox Opal that can ignore it.
@BoshNRoll Fair. Good analysis, thanks :)
Always bolt the bird.
...this is probably a stupid question, but can you profitably run Uro/Dreadnought/Stifle/Consign with a midgame plan of also being able to stifle Uro's sac trigger? My assumption is that's too slow or clunky or people would be doing it more, but.
In slower formats that deck has been viable. Legacy games are decided on turn 2 right now, hard to justify a 4 mana play that costs 7 if you don’t “combo”
Is the high mana cost also why Nulldrifter isn't here?
I'm wondering why we're not running some number of urza's saga. I understand not being able to fit 4 saga's into a 3 color deck, but not seeing 1 in the 75 feels strange.
What land(s) are you cutting for it? What 1-drop artifacts are you adding so it still makes sense when you board out dreadnought? What are you cutting for those artifacts? Do all those changes improve the deck against the expected field?
@@BoshNRoll I'm honestly not sure. I don't have all the answers. It just feels strange, not right or wrong.
ggs❤
Naughty Frog? Hmm. We can come up with a good name for this one, no?
I suggested Eye Robot (Occulus + Curie) but it didn't stick :)
top 8 pack win em if you got em
First time i see the new rules change to blocking and all i can say is that i hate it.
Hey I missed this, can you explain or link me?
@@jacklatorre4167 With the release of Foundations, the attacker now has complete control of how the damage is assigned among blocking creatures in the event of a multi-block rather than assigning a blocking order which damage is then systematically applied along. The primary implication of this is that now you don't have to deal damage to certain creatures if there's some reason you wouldn't want to.
@@jacklatorre4167 @16:45
Dumb question but why is frog so good? Is giving up all that card advantage really worth the pump?
Because it’s flexible and lines up really well vs multiple answers.
It can out scale Delver/DRC, it can single handedly race Stompy, discarding dead cards for clock, it discards Reanimate targets, exiles instant sorcery for murk to combat trick, it removes card types from the yard to mess with goyph
@@breyor1 and it just draws cards by winning the game
It's not that discarding a card to pump is that good in itself, but it's an extra tool that comes for free with your draw engine. You don't need to discard cards when it's not good in the matchup (for example, against decks with fatal push), but the option is there against decks that can't beat a big creature.
The general trend seems to be that any 1-2 mana threat that can generate card advantage is broken in the wasteland-daze-cantrip shell (dreadhorde arcanist, ravagan, wrenn). Psychic frog is that plus some extra text on top.
Letsgooooo
2 dreadnoughts as a payoff for main decking consign to memory seems perfect. But vexing bauble seems ok to me. You were able to play around it and still win. Consign to memory is an answer to vexing bauble, after all.
Like the deck but i would no complain about the vexing bauble when the frog make you win every game 🤣
They are BOTH problems. I’m not championing one while defending the other.
At least people arent begging for frog to get banned, I find it an extremely intresting card. Its either a small card advantage machine or an extremely risking game ending threat if your willing to go all in and discard your hand and pray they cant answer it.
I think its far too soon to talk about banning anything from the forge deck. Just a few weeks ago people were complaining about reanimator should be banned. I feel like something is wrong with magic players. They constantly say that something needs to get banned. Its never ending. The moment a top deck appears it needs to be gutted.
It's because Reanimator and Forge combo are both extremely oppressive to nearly all parts of what defined Legacy, with Eldrazi (read, Sowing Mycospawn) also being guilty of the sins of MH3. "Force keeps combo decks in check." Not with Bauble. "Basic are hard to deal with." Mycospawn eliminates that. "Hand disruption can break up combo." Psychic Frog and Reanimator overall can just dodge that. "Greedy mana bases can be ruined by Blood Moon, Wasteland, and now, Harbinger of the Seas." Yeah, Troll of Kázadúm just sidesteps that
I do not think Vexing Bauble should be banned. Its finally put some other decks on the table. So what if blue isnt doing well with it, its been dominant far too long. If the Eldrazi Combo deck is too strong, ban something else.. I'd not be unhappy with a monolith ban for instance. Cards far too expensive anyways, and it afaik only sees play in colorless combo decks.
Frankly, playing against combo all the time is foul, and I would prefer blue control to be big time than combo to be
Combo still has to go through the same steps as any other deck you need to play draw and mulligan well. It’s not immune to those facts of this game. Eternal weekend Europe proved that bauble isn’t a format breaker 0 copies in top 8. Mystic forge dident run away with the event again because the players adapted and shifted where it needed to to keep it in check. Forge isn’t an auto your going to do well at a major event the deck dump from the event proved that. All true records combined show it performed sub par at best
Just watched some matches where Bosh Daze/Fow opponent's play, draw a ton of cards then complains when someone plays a Vexing Bauble
Frog ALSO needs to be banned. There’s multiple problems right now. Sick dunk though, it needed longer in the oven.
Agreed
Bauble is the only thing making non blue decks playable and it’s insane people are whining about about one tournament result. Bauble is healthy in the format. Force, Daze, FoN should be punished.
No. Flat out no. There is a large difference between proactive tools and reactive tools. Bauble severely restricts the ability to interact or forces interaction to be used on it. This very easily enables any number of degenerate combos that would've been kept in check by the forces and daze.
Bauble also (like any proactive lock piece) restricts future design space, where reactive options don't nearly as severely. You have to be extremely careful what you print when there exists a 1 mana solution that shuts off most interaction.
On to your comment about the color... There have been good red decks for a while in legacy, and while it is a little unfortunate that the forces are blue (I think it would be better for legacy if all colors had similar interactive options), it isn't the end of the world that blue is good and has an identity for interaction
Bauble isn't helping Lands, D&T, etc., though. These are pushed out of the format. It is all tempo, combo or some hybrid.
If Vexing Bauble actually helped the grindy, taxy decks, I'd be happy. Instead, it is enabling the storm decks, Mystic Forge decks, etc., push the control decks out, so there is no answer to tempo.
We end up with all Frog and Combo and it is sad.
@@derekcline950 yeah if Bryan Cook wants it banned because it is making combo even more degenerate you know there is a problem
Force should absolutely not be punished. No one wants to play a format with Belcher variants with no Force to keep them in check.
Eternal master Bosh!