I’m gonna call it “indeterminate” since the timescale for minmus tidal locking is on the same order of magnitude as how long it has likely existed for, and we don’t know when or how it became one of kerbin’s satellites And yeah, Moho would likely be in a spin-orbit resonance due to its eccentricity of 0.2, which is almost exactly that of Mercury, and Mercury has a 3:2 spin-orbit resonance Good video as always tho 👍
Even more indeterminate I'd say since the assumtion of modulus and of dissipation factor are quite the wild ass guess, these values have a lot to do with gravitational binding rather than material properties and density is strongly related, so I'd expect a far higher impact than assumed, probably increasing it a lot... Also if we correct for realism (10x the radius and 100x the distance, plus correcting masses) we should get longer timescales
In the KSP wiki it says that Minmus is a captured asteroid, so it may be possible it entered Kerbins SOI less than 1.3 billion years ago. (If so maybe you could determine how long its been in orbit? Idk this math just like seeing it)
Damn, the KSP community really needs to create a very neat space exploration simulator. It would be really cool to build spacecraft taking into account cosmic radiation and other effects of space, create firmware for the device yourself, simulate chemistry (factories for the production of any reallife substances) It seems I’m asking too much
@@makssachs8914 Its a lot easier to play games and maybe have the game be a little less realistic then work at NASA. Nasa is pretty damn hard so unfortunately even for the (albeit small compared to the total population) number of people who want to work at nasa, its only really achievable for very few of them.
Much of what you are asking for is already playable. If you want to write your own autopilot code, just use KOS. Kerbalism does solar radiation and a bunch of other stuff pretty well. And there are a bunch of manufacturing mods out there.
You were saying that Minmus was likely captured by Kerbin in the past, which is why it isn’t tidally locked. I support this. Its orbit is very inclined away from the kerbolar plane, so it was likely captured into that elliptical orbit. A collision likely wouldn’t have formed it because the debris couldn’t get into an orbit so circular that far out.
@@Verner_von_Kerman that too. although that can be explained by a large body made of the same stuff as minmus colliding with kerbin. although i don’t support this
I didn’t realize bop wasn’t tidally locked to Jool. I’ve landed on every moon before and could have sworn it was locked in rotation. Another thing that might be cool to look at is how long it would take for duna and Ike to get in their mutually locked relationship where both objects are always facing each other
This is very interesting... So kerbin kidnapped Minmus?? Jokes apart, have you ever considered doing a gameplay on KSP? I think it would be interesting to see you play, do some crazy stuff, and calculate if it would be realistically possible😆
Gameplay would be fun indeed. But there is a lot of gameplay out there, so I would need a way to distinguish myself from te rest. Something like calculations like you said.
@@curious_ksp_-- I think something focusing on the science instruments and what they can tell us would be cool. Kind of a blend between pure gameplay and pure theory.
I imagine minmus beeing an old moon of jool, was tossed out of orbit by the crazy gravity of the jool system and captured recently by kerbin. Cool video 👍
since we have no idea about what the original spin would've been, it might've been much better to do a parametric equation and see for which values Minmus ends up as tidally locked within a reasonable timeframe, and for which it doesn't.
Video idea that could incorporate gameplay like ive seen ppl asking for: Maybe you couls put together a mission to go around and fictionally RP being the Kerbals and calculating measurements about KSP and its celestial bodies but in a Matt Lowne style (so obviously acknowledging that its fictional and making a commentary and whatnot). This would be a nice blend of gameplay and the regular maths and theory videos. Maybe, you could make it a series and do it one object at a time. It would be easier as well.
Depends how long Minmus has existed. Could only be 1 billion years old 'in lore', or it could be an object that was captured by Kerbin's gravity well more recently.
there's a third reason why minmus wouldn't be tidally locked - because it's a captured body. this is supported by its highly inclined, eccentric orbit and its position right at the edge of kerbin's soi.
Take this with a grain of salt because I don't know a lot about astrology, but my theory is that minmus was captured into the Kerbin system recently due to its icy nature. And if I'm not mistaken, it's the closest icy body to the star. I guess it also would explain it's farther out orbit from Kerbin then the mun
I think the conclusion to draw from this is that the in-universe explanation is that Minmus and Bop are captured bodies. With Bop at least that is a really easy assumption to make given its eccentric and highly inclined orbit. I hadn't visited Moho to make any relevant observations. I think it's also worth mentioning The Science Asylum did a video about the mechanics of tidal locking so for anyone looking for more info about it Is recommend checking out that video. I'll reply to this comment with a link to it in just a moment.
Moho doesn't really need a be a captured body. It would likely be in a spin-orbit resonance, it has an eccentricity of 0.2, almost identical with Mercury, and Mercury has a spin orbit resonance at a ratio of 3:2. Therefore, its more likely that Moho is in that, but the other two bodies are likely captured bodies.
Could Bop have had a significant collision recently? I wonder what kind of impacts would be enough to set it spinning but not enough to eject it. Maybe two moonlets accreted from a ring? Eh, Bop is kinda far for a ring...
I believe “Mun” is pronounced “Mün” or “Moon” as it’s likely referencing our own moon’s name “Luna” in which the U makes an “oo” vowel not an “uh” vowel. Therefore Mun and Moon should be phonetically identical.
Its inclined and eccentric orbit compared to the Mun definitely points out that Minmus must have been a captured satellite (it's even said in the game itself). Actually, the Earth sort of does the same. Currently we have a second "moon" orbiting our planet, but it's more "orbiting the Sun but being dragged along by the Earth", in other words it's "co-orbiting". Such quasi-moons have unstable orbits because of the Earth's and other planets' influence, and will eventually leave our planet's sphere of influence some day. But Minmus has pretty much nestled itself as an actual moon. When playing KSP I always sent more missions to Minmus than the Mun cause these aspects were pretty fascinating, mixed with the "mint" texture it apparently has.
The main thing you didn't take into consideration is the effect of other planets in kerbins SOI. Similarly mercury isn't tidal locked because of the effect of the other planets like venus, so knowing that minmus is pretty far away from kerbin, it could be possible that eve or dune are preventing minmus from tidal locking.
I've also thought it was kind of unrealistic that Minmus spun so fast, but maybe recently in Minmus' past a massive impact knocked the moon over (similar to the giant Venusian impact hypothesis). That would also explain both the massive glass flats on Minmus (material melted by the impact), the difference in elevation on the Minmusian surface (Earth's moon went through a similar impact that created a highlands on the far side) and the giant crater on kerbin (the impact happened recently so geology hasn't had time to erase the crater). Just a theory, though.
My head canon is that it was captured. It appears to be a failed planet by its relatively misshapened features and is much small than Mun. I think Minmus being a captured object explains it best
This might seem dumb, but I'm really curious about a scene from Martincitopants' fourth KSP video and whether it could actually happen like it does, especially with the high densities of the planets Here's the clip th-cam.com/users/clipUgkx9J4CE2-5k0swauqaquLi9fWJhlbyB00C?si=gpuH2W4KTV6yVA_Q my questions 1. could you feasibly build an engine that big? 2. could you get dres to eve with said engine? 3. would the collision act like shown given the high densities? 4. how would this affect eve's orbit? 5. how would this affect the entire system?
What if the Kerbolar System only "just" formed. So even if Minmus was captured there may not have been enough time for Bop and Moho to become tidally locked. (since you didn't tell us the timeframe for those two we obvs don't know if that theory is reasonable). To further this headcannon, the reason Kerbin is so empty is bc upon formation of the Kerbolar System, Kerbals (being the ones to discover it) may have sent a fully selfsustaining interstellar colony to Kerbin to establish a foothold in exploring this new system.
minimus is hypothesiszed to be a captured asteroid or minor body from the outer kerbol system, if that were true it would make sense that it hasnt had 1.3 billion years to lock
Minmus seems to be an icy body, based off the description of it looking like mint ice cream My theory is that it’s an icy dwarf planet that has been kicked into the inner solar system by jool and captured by kerbin Ice will sublimate because of solar radiation in the orbit of kerbin, which would slowly shrink the size of minmus and could explain why it’s not tidally locked Minmus should also have a comet tail if this is the case
very interessting topic ! i was wondering , years ago i read , something about our moon orbiting earth and being tide lock with earth and because of that the moon tends to have a much larger orbit as time passes, so in the futur our moon will be further. it would be very nice to explain us why ? ( it's a question of momentum preservation if i remember , but i don't know how it really works )
Pretty much the Volumetric clouds package by blackrack. That includes EVE, scatterer and of course the 3D clouds. Additionally I have Restock, Waterfall and MagpieMods and Parallax!
Hey huh the render of minmus seem very detailled, more than the stock one. Are you using a mod? I really would like to have planets that aren't looking like clayballs. I know parallaxe detail the surface but only at low distance So huh yeah if someone know or if im wrong it would be cool
It is indeed Parallax in case of Minmus. You have to get close enough to get that detail. Sadly it does not work at larger distances. I am happy to hear that I am not the only one who thinks the planets look like they are made out of clay. Especially those without an atmosphere.
Wait, isn't Minmus an ice moon? I always thought that this was true, if this is true, then shouldn't Sol (or whatever the star is called) evaporate ice from its surface? If so, then the statement that Minmus captured the body makes even more sense. (can minmus have/receive an oxygen (ozone) atmosphere in this case if sunlight decomposes H2O into its component parts? Considering its gravity, it is doubtful, but it is possible if it is very rarefied)
In KSP 2 they claim the moon is more glassy/ceramic like, which would also make sense. I like that idea honestly. Sadly the graphics in KSP 1 don't allow for such a nice shiny glassy object😭
I feel like in KSP to it should look like well mint ice cream on the Highlands and when you conduct a experiment on the highlands with the you know grab a sample it should say this looks like mint ice cream and taste like mint ice cream
@@curious_ksp_ Well, KSP2 is now dead, and it's debatable whether it's canon. Considering that we were promised a new solar system, we can joke that this is it, it’s just that the bodies in it are very similar to the bodies from KSP1 :)
If it was much than what I assumed in the video I doubt it would have been able to form/collect particles to grow to that size. But I have not quantitavely looked that that specific case.
You should definitely make one day a video on how an ancient kerbolar system would look like
(COUGH COUGH) BEFORE KERBIN (COUGH)
Kheia collision with kerbin :)
@@notjebbutstillakerbal I wish somebody could remake that one day
Before Kerbin
Heeeeell yeeeeah that would be fire.
this formula can easily tell which _natural_ satellite has formed with it's parent, and what has not, and the ones that weren't are mostly captured
That is another way of looking at that equation!
I’m gonna call it “indeterminate” since the timescale for minmus tidal locking is on the same order of magnitude as how long it has likely existed for, and we don’t know when or how it became one of kerbin’s satellites
And yeah, Moho would likely be in a spin-orbit resonance due to its eccentricity of 0.2, which is almost exactly that of Mercury, and Mercury has a 3:2 spin-orbit resonance
Good video as always tho 👍
Agree!
Even more indeterminate I'd say since the assumtion of modulus and of dissipation factor are quite the wild ass guess, these values have a lot to do with gravitational binding rather than material properties and density is strongly related, so I'd expect a far higher impact than assumed, probably increasing it a lot... Also if we correct for realism (10x the radius and 100x the distance, plus correcting masses) we should get longer timescales
In the KSP wiki it says that Minmus is a captured asteroid, so it may be possible it entered Kerbins SOI less than 1.3 billion years ago.
(If so maybe you could determine how long its been in orbit? Idk this math just like seeing it)
protomolecule perhaps?
@@m1abrams1776I’ll contact the Kocinante, I’m sure James Kerman and Naomi Kerman can get to the bottom of it
One day I want all the answers to things like this for KSP so I can put together a history and future of the Kerbol system
@aaalgon it all started when i paid 40 dollars on the steam marketplace...
I love that you really listened to my advice on the thumbnail! Thank you!
Damn, the KSP community really needs to create a very neat space exploration simulator. It would be really cool to build spacecraft taking into account cosmic radiation and other effects of space, create firmware for the device yourself, simulate chemistry (factories for the production of any reallife substances) It seems I’m asking too much
Anyone who would be any good at that should really just get a job at nasa so they can get paid for their work.
@@makssachs8914 Its a lot easier to play games and maybe have the game be a little less realistic then work at NASA. Nasa is pretty damn hard so unfortunately even for the (albeit small compared to the total population) number of people who want to work at nasa, its only really achievable for very few of them.
@@Liam-rz3wl it’s called hyperbole big guy
They have, it’s called “modded KSP”
Much of what you are asking for is already playable. If you want to write your own autopilot code, just use KOS. Kerbalism does solar radiation and a bunch of other stuff pretty well. And there are a bunch of manufacturing mods out there.
You were saying that Minmus was likely captured by Kerbin in the past, which is why it isn’t tidally locked. I support this. Its orbit is very inclined away from the kerbolar plane, so it was likely captured into that elliptical orbit. A collision likely wouldn’t have formed it because the debris couldn’t get into an orbit so circular that far out.
Yeah + it has such different color from kerbin
@@Verner_von_Kerman that too. although that can be explained by a large body made of the same stuff as minmus colliding with kerbin. although i don’t support this
I didn’t realize bop wasn’t tidally locked to Jool. I’ve landed on every moon before and could have sworn it was locked in rotation. Another thing that might be cool to look at is how long it would take for duna and Ike to get in their mutually locked relationship where both objects are always facing each other
This is very interesting... So kerbin kidnapped Minmus??
Jokes apart, have you ever considered doing a gameplay on KSP? I think it would be interesting to see you play, do some crazy stuff, and calculate if it would be realistically possible😆
Gameplay would be fun indeed. But there is a lot of gameplay out there, so I would need a way to distinguish myself from te rest.
Something like calculations like you said.
@@curious_ksp_ the possibilities are endless, but remember that the main part is to have fun!
@@curious_ksp_-- I think something focusing on the science instruments and what they can tell us would be cool. Kind of a blend between pure gameplay and pure theory.
I imagine minmus beeing an old moon of jool, was tossed out of orbit by the crazy gravity of the jool system and captured recently by kerbin. Cool video 👍
One thing I will say is perhaps the g constant is higher in the kerbal unicerse, rather then everyrhing being more dence.
More people believe this, so I am thinking of making a video to settle the issue.
since we have no idea about what the original spin would've been, it might've been much better to do a parametric equation and see for which values Minmus ends up as tidally locked within a reasonable timeframe, and for which it doesn't.
Love these vids so much, ty for all your time and effort you put in to it :)
It definitely points to evidence of Minmus being fairly recently captured.
Sweet video as always! Keep up the great work!
So from the spin rate of minmus we can assume it was a captured body? That is neat, and now its in my head canon
Great video!!
Video idea that could incorporate gameplay like ive seen ppl asking for:
Maybe you couls put together a mission to go around and fictionally RP being the Kerbals and calculating measurements about KSP and its celestial bodies but in a Matt Lowne style (so obviously acknowledging that its fictional and making a commentary and whatnot). This would be a nice blend of gameplay and the regular maths and theory videos. Maybe, you could make it a series and do it one object at a time. It would be easier as well.
I will see what I can do. No promises though haha
Maybe Minmus suffered a large impact relatively recently? That could perhaps explain some of the odd terrain.
You want to know minimus isn't tidally locked because KSP physics is weird like kerbals used to be able to destroy their own rockets when getting out
Love this kind of content
Depends how long Minmus has existed. Could only be 1 billion years old 'in lore', or it could be an object that was captured by Kerbin's gravity well more recently.
I was wondering how much content we could get from one system of space rocks and then I realized we where going to have at least two more, nice
Oh boy, I hope so.
there's a third reason why minmus wouldn't be tidally locked - because it's a captured body. this is supported by its highly inclined, eccentric orbit and its position right at the edge of kerbin's soi.
he mentions that at the end
If it was captured, shouldn't one node of its orbit pass closer to the mun?
Take this with a grain of salt because I don't know a lot about astrology, but my theory is that minmus was captured into the Kerbin system recently due to its icy nature. And if I'm not mistaken, it's the closest icy body to the star. I guess it also would explain it's farther out orbit from Kerbin then the mun
astronomy
I think the conclusion to draw from this is that the in-universe explanation is that Minmus and Bop are captured bodies. With Bop at least that is a really easy assumption to make given its eccentric and highly inclined orbit. I hadn't visited Moho to make any relevant observations.
I think it's also worth mentioning The Science Asylum did a video about the mechanics of tidal locking so for anyone looking for more info about it Is recommend checking out that video. I'll reply to this comment with a link to it in just a moment.
th-cam.com/video/fivCstgXlDo/w-d-xo.html
Moho doesn't really need a be a captured body. It would likely be in a spin-orbit resonance, it has an eccentricity of 0.2, almost identical with Mercury, and Mercury has a spin orbit resonance at a ratio of 3:2. Therefore, its more likely that Moho is in that, but the other two bodies are likely captured bodies.
@@Liam-rz3wl I wasn't saying Moho is.
Could Bop have had a significant collision recently? I wonder what kind of impacts would be enough to set it spinning but not enough to eject it. Maybe two moonlets accreted from a ring? Eh, Bop is kinda far for a ring...
@@TlalocTemporal it's possible but a lot of it's characteristics are similar to captured moons of Jupiter and Saturn.
I think it's likely (and more cool) if the capturing of bodies is a lot more recent
I believe “Mun” is pronounced “Mün” or “Moon” as it’s likely referencing our own moon’s name “Luna” in which the U makes an “oo” vowel not an “uh” vowel. Therefore Mun and Moon should be phonetically identical.
that was the original intention, but it gradually shifted to "muhn" as time went on (for example they stopped writing it as "mün")
Its inclined and eccentric orbit compared to the Mun definitely points out that Minmus must have been a captured satellite (it's even said in the game itself). Actually, the Earth sort of does the same. Currently we have a second "moon" orbiting our planet, but it's more "orbiting the Sun but being dragged along by the Earth", in other words it's "co-orbiting". Such quasi-moons have unstable orbits because of the Earth's and other planets' influence, and will eventually leave our planet's sphere of influence some day. But Minmus has pretty much nestled itself as an actual moon. When playing KSP I always sent more missions to Minmus than the Mun cause these aspects were pretty fascinating, mixed with the "mint" texture it apparently has.
The main thing you didn't take into consideration is the effect of other planets in kerbins SOI. Similarly mercury isn't tidal locked because of the effect of the other planets like venus, so knowing that minmus is pretty far away from kerbin, it could be possible that eve or dune are preventing minmus from tidal locking.
Since you've already done a video on the Mystery Goo, could you explore what the Science Jr is?
considering Minmus's more inclined orbit, it could have very weel been captured recently.
I've also thought it was kind of unrealistic that Minmus spun so fast, but maybe recently in Minmus' past a massive impact knocked the moon over (similar to the giant Venusian impact hypothesis). That would also explain both the massive glass flats on Minmus (material melted by the impact), the difference in elevation on the Minmusian surface (Earth's moon went through a similar impact that created a highlands on the far side) and the giant crater on kerbin (the impact happened recently so geology hasn't had time to erase the crater).
Just a theory, though.
as well as it's rather eccentric orbit around kerbin
My head canon is that it was captured. It appears to be a failed planet by its relatively misshapened features and is much small than Mun. I think Minmus being a captured object explains it best
This might seem dumb, but I'm really curious about a scene from Martincitopants' fourth KSP video and whether it could actually happen like it does, especially with the high densities of the planets
Here's the clip
th-cam.com/users/clipUgkx9J4CE2-5k0swauqaquLi9fWJhlbyB00C?si=gpuH2W4KTV6yVA_Q
my questions
1. could you feasibly build an engine that big?
2. could you get dres to eve with said engine?
3. would the collision act like shown given the high densities?
4. how would this affect eve's orbit?
5. how would this affect the entire system?
I think its the Captured theory, some Sources say its a Comet, that would also explain the Elliptical orbit.
What if the Kerbolar System only "just" formed. So even if Minmus was captured there may not have been enough time for Bop and Moho to become tidally locked. (since you didn't tell us the timeframe for those two we obvs don't know if that theory is reasonable). To further this headcannon, the reason Kerbin is so empty is bc upon formation of the Kerbolar System, Kerbals (being the ones to discover it) may have sent a fully selfsustaining interstellar colony to Kerbin to establish a foothold in exploring this new system.
i love how he has returned to modded ksp 1 instead of ksp2
Yep, I am thinking of making a video on why there is hope for KSP, because we have the original game and modders are still improving it!
minimus is hypothesiszed to be a captured asteroid or minor body from the outer kerbol system, if that were true it would make sense that it hasnt had 1.3 billion years to lock
what if the kerbol system is just younger than 1 billion years?
Minmus seems to be an icy body, based off the description of it looking like mint ice cream
My theory is that it’s an icy dwarf planet that has been kicked into the inner solar system by jool and captured by kerbin
Ice will sublimate because of solar radiation in the orbit of kerbin, which would slowly shrink the size of minmus and could explain why it’s not tidally locked
Minmus should also have a comet tail if this is the case
Semi-recent impactor which explains some cryovolcanism?
very interessting topic !
i was wondering , years ago i read , something about our moon orbiting earth and being tide lock with earth and because of that the moon tends to have a much larger orbit as time passes, so in the futur our moon will be further.
it would be very nice to explain us why ?
( it's a question of momentum preservation if i remember , but i don't know how it really works )
I can try to work that into a video at some point in the future for sure! I had to do a presentation on it so I hope I can find my notes haha
@@curious_ksp_ thanks for the answer ; i'll be waiting for that ! ( just discover your chanel, i like the way you show us the subject )
Considering how far out minimus is, is it actually rotating faster than the mun?
How does anyone know what the initial rotation rate is for a body though?
Can you please list your graphic mods? They're magnificent!
Pretty much the Volumetric clouds package by blackrack. That includes EVE, scatterer and of course the 3D clouds. Additionally I have Restock, Waterfall and MagpieMods and Parallax!
Thank you!
Hey huh the render of minmus seem very detailled, more than the stock one. Are you using a mod? I really would like to have planets that aren't looking like clayballs.
I know parallaxe detail the surface but only at low distance
So huh yeah if someone know or if im wrong it would be cool
It is indeed Parallax in case of Minmus. You have to get close enough to get that detail. Sadly it does not work at larger distances. I am happy to hear that I am not the only one who thinks the planets look like they are made out of clay. Especially those without an atmosphere.
Wait, isn't Minmus an ice moon? I always thought that this was true, if this is true, then shouldn't Sol (or whatever the star is called) evaporate ice from its surface? If so, then the statement that Minmus captured the body makes even more sense. (can minmus have/receive an oxygen (ozone) atmosphere in this case if sunlight decomposes H2O into its component parts? Considering its gravity, it is doubtful, but it is possible if it is very rarefied)
In KSP 2 they claim the moon is more glassy/ceramic like, which would also make sense. I like that idea honestly. Sadly the graphics in KSP 1 don't allow for such a nice shiny glassy object😭
I feel like in KSP to it should look like well mint ice cream on the Highlands and when you conduct a experiment on the highlands with the you know grab a sample it should say this looks like mint ice cream and taste like mint ice cream
@@curious_ksp_ Well, KSP2 is now dead, and it's debatable whether it's canon. Considering that we were promised a new solar system, we can joke that this is it, it’s just that the bodies in it are very similar to the bodies from KSP1 :)
nice video ily man
What if Minmus's initial spin rate was much faster?
If it was much than what I assumed in the video I doubt it would have been able to form/collect particles to grow to that size. But I have not quantitavely looked that that specific case.
how is bop not tidally locked
It has a very eccentric and inclined orbit
minmus would be far less interesting from a gameplay perspective if it was also tidally locked
I'm Spain without the a.
Bop being an anomaly as always
43 views in 10 minutes? you fell off man
comet