Choosing Religious Atrocities in Ireland
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Nowhere in Europe have the wars of religion lasted longer than in Ireland. Why has the partisan memorialisation of religious atrocity proved so durable?
A lecture by Alec Ryrie, Gresham Professor of Divinity
1 April 2020 6:00pm UK Time
www.gresham.ac...
Nowhere in Europe have the wars of religion lasted longer than in Ireland. At the heart of this are two rival sets of memories of atrocities: above all, Protestants recall the massacres of the 1641 rebellion, and Catholics recall the massacres perpetrated by Oliver Cromwell in 1649. As well as setting these competing narratives into their wider context, this lecture will ask why the partisan memorialisation of religious atrocity in Ireland has proved so exceptionally durable.
Gresham College has offered free public lectures for over 400 years, thanks to the generosity of our supporters. There are currently over 2,500 lectures free to access. We believe that everyone should have the opportunity to learn from some of the greatest minds. To support Gresham's mission, please consider making a donation: gresham.ac.uk/...
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Lower Bracket Final - LEV vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fyYkI80GG4o/mqdefault.jpg)
![ง้อ (ALRIGHT) - FOURTH Prod. by URBOYTJ [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qs8ZeV6Dqj8/mqdefault.jpg)
"these two sets on events [do not] balance each other. Atrocities don't work that way." Have truer words ever been spoken? Thank you.
Absolutely brilliant lecture Alec, best wishes from this non practicing but cultural Scots Presbyterian, who is married to a lovely Philippine catholic, & has an adorable Philippine catholic daughter named Angel Alexis, our gift from the Lord. ❤️🏴🇵🇭
I'm a native of Drogheda - grew up there and heard all the local stories at school. Even though its was 40 years ago, this was presented in a rather detached and surprisingly matter-of-fact manner. This lecture set it in historical context perfectly.
Yeah. My ma s family are from Drogheda
Wow! Fantastic lecture. I'm English. I was taught minimal Irish history. Thank you for deepening and broadening my knowledge. I shall now watch this entire video all over again!
An excellent presentation from a keen mind that makes it look so easy. Dr Eyrie is a teacher that can and does.make early modern history something worth pursuing. Well done sir!
@Nick Bointon
Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia and Switzerland, the heartland of Protestantism are very secularised. The US megachurches and their pastors are grotesque caricatures that would appal Luther, Zwingli and Calvin.
Dr *Ryrie
@Nick Bointon Roman Catholicism has been a bigger disaster for Ireland than the famine.
The Church of Rome is not indigenous to Ireland , Roman Catholicism was introduced into Ireland by the Normans on the instructions of the Pope.
The true religion of the Irish was Celtic Christianity.
@Nick Bointon they flourished due to the colonization of Africa...
@Nick Bointon the Europeans
Well worth accessing UTube just for material like this.
Thank you sir
Great presentation, should be given to all schools in Britain and Ireland! Would be interested to hear his take on the following decades.
Lots excluded. Priest hunters, 1588 in my home town three Franciscians were mocked, spat at, whipped, hanged, drawn and quartered and their remains burnt. Their crime being Catholic, Irish and they were going up into the he hills where the Irish were hunted to give them the sacraments.
A very informative and pragmatic lecture Professor Ryrie, thank you.
I am a proud Irishman. I love England, English history and English people who, like all other peoples, are responsible for what they do and not what their ancestors might or might not have done.
Being reminded by our current situation in America, I offer you the following caveat:
It is true that we are not responsible for our ancestors' actions. We are, however, responsible for what we choose to forget, and more still for what we dare to deny.
Don't you think that a country's history creates it modern culture?
A well meant, but very strange comment, the very essence of imagined English superiority or exceptionalism that fuelled the atrocities that were committed by the English in Ireland manifests itself in the current political quagmire that is Brexit.
@@brazilianbhoy i simply disagree with u. I do not punish the child for the sins of the father
@@masterofnone8400 Me neither, but i keep my eye out for possible family traits.
Excellent. Really covered a lot and gave a sharper context. The bit that caught my attention, because it was a new link for me, was how events in Ireland instigated the Civil War in England and ultimately to the execution of King Charles and Cromwell’s immediate move to Ireland shortly afterwards.
1649 was when the diggers were fighting for the right to grow food on common land as times were hard, but, as in Ireland, the rich property owners wanted all of the land for themselves, as it is today the world over, ultimately, there'll be no lasting peace until this ends.
Absolutely it’s a class struggle,socialism for the rich and independent capitalism and poverty for the rest of us.
Amen comrade!
@@TexasFriedCriminal cheers bro hope you’re safe and well.
...being from 1952, in Liverpool, i had chosen a very fortuous niche in life. i watched from the safety of my bedroom window how the convoys carried the helmets down to the shore along the brand new Litherland flyover, to be shipped off to cause chaos on a western isle. It was to be in Germany on the buildings (auf wiedershen) in 1979 before i had the chance to hear from the horses mouth, what was on the cards and how the hand was being played out. It shocked me and still is shocking me, to hear details of this shameful treatment being exposed. Yes, it isn't a wonder that the establishment doesn't want this discussesd... hahah digusted from Bielefeld. stay safe and teach your children well.
Stop lying. This was when my ancestors the indigenous people ie Israelites ie Black people were being deported to Africa and the Americas. Some of us are immune to white surpremacist scholarship. As an Israelite and an historian I am fascinated by the fact that nonblack people believe that they have a history and a heritage when we have not witnessed the simple invention of culture by them. If So-called white people are indigenous to Ireland, please explain surnames like Dunn, Doyle, Dunleavy, Douglass, Blake Stewart, brown etc. Why do the primary sources available describe them as being Negros? Ie Israelites.?
Elizabethan generals like Walter Devereux and Walter Raleigh also committed attrocities such as at Smerick and Rathlin Island. Devereux at one point was recalled over it.
And Edmund Spenser
And Cromwell and queen Elizabeth first
Thank you for this Iecture. I am baised in Northern Ireland, a Presbyterian and an Ulster Scot. I was mediator during the Northern Irish Conflict and now read early modern Histoy at an university in Ireland. The one constant is that the factual evidence of History must be examined through cold scholarly eyes. There is no room for romance, or nostalgic sentiment, nor ideas that lead to political and social intupretations, myths and legends. There was and still remains an abiding sense of English civility and Irish ignorance. My Ulster accent has been corrected by a number of times by English colleagues.
I would propose that Cromwell's troops viewed themselves as the avenging Sword of the Lord, in some Old Testament sense. Many accounts of the Irish referred to their superstitious nature and adherence to to Catholicism. To early modern Protestants belief in Catholicism was the equivalent to belife the demonic. Indeed, the Westminster Confession Faith stated that the Pope was the antichrist. Many believed that they were living in the end times during the War of the Three Kingdoms. There was a desire to build a good and Godley state and perge superstition, witchcraft, moral degeneration and Catholicism. This misguided religious zeal was the backdrop the atrocities that took place in Drogheda and Wexford as well as witch-hunting across England and Scotland. Today we can't comprehend how the slaughter of Innocents and civilians could possibly be condoned, but during the protestant Reformation and Catholic Counter- Reformation many atrocities were committed by both sides in the name of God. This lecture was a very blanced and factual insight into a very difficult subject. There still pravades a fear among Protestants that live in the North of Ireland. This fear may have been the cause of the disparity in civil rights that existed in the past. Yet I and so many decendents of planters feel that we' have no cultural or national identity. We are Britan's illegitimate colonists, rejected by the rest of the UK and Irish alike. We are British, but yet not British, we are Irish, but yet not lirish........
@Sharon Boland Ouch! That must have hurt 🤕
Israel and Palestine ?
@Sharon Boland The answer is I don't know. My family tree begins in Ireland during the C17. Members of family have been traced to Scotland, but the trail went cold until more information can be found.
@@Oscarhobbit many years ago I visited a modest farm outside Ballymena where the owner proudly showed me a mid C17 inscription by an ancestor carved on the wall of the farmhouse. It was indeed something to be proud of that his family had resided there continuously to the present day. I also knew that there could hardly be any houses in the South, where I came from, that would be able to make that claim. Most Irish people have great difficulty tracing their families back further than the late C19, an indication of the precarious and poverty stricken lives they led.
But most of all the inscription on that wall gave me concrete proof that this place was truly Home for the Planters/British of Ulster and that, as they'd long proclaimed, they weren't going anywhere.
@@diggyd thank you for this. It is a shame that even after hundreds of years there are some who would try to make you feel unwelcome in your own country of birth. There are some in Ireland who still call us "Brits" and the north is refered to as the " The Black North".
That was a beautifully honest and sympathetic description of those violent times, especially from an Englishman. Thank you.
When the Irish went overseas did the same to others as had been done to them. Indigenous people all over the English empire were killed and displaced. Their religions, cultures, languages etc. were destroyed. Ireland was England's first colony and the Irish joined in when they had power.
@@mikecain6947 You sound like people are not marshmallows but eternal competitors. Oh,you might be right.
@@mikecain6947 Name 1 Irish general or admiral who led a war of invasion. Irish who were drafted to serve under English command were in no positiion to disobey, much less than to decide whether to decide whether or not to invade. You can't blame Ireland, Britain's first colony,, for imperial tyranny.
@@mikecain6947 no, England was the first colony. See the Diggers rebellion/ sitting on ‘common land’ and being forcibly cleared off by power and money.1649.
@@christal2641 The Irish invaded Scotland
I was educated in Drogheda by the Irish Christian Brothers. In teaching Irish History, Brother Houlihan never gave any interpretations which might engender either anti-English or anti-Protestant sentiment. I loved Dr. Eyrie's talk.
Fair play to him , and that was the Christian thing to do .....I wish all schools were as open minded..
Do you mind if I ask if the 1641 massacres were ever mentioned ??
I would say the Great Famine was the single biggest factor in damaging the relationships within these islands.....
@@jaypee6061 When teaching about the Cromwellian capture of Drogheda, I remember Br Houlihan remarking that Cromwell had a most disciplined army and that he probably allowed his troops to engage in slaughter in the town because of reports of the massacre of Irish Protestants in 1641. However he believed that these reports were often exaggerated . He also mentioned atrocities committed by the rebels in Wexford in 1798 but said that these were overshadowed by the savagery of the militia.
@@gerald412fitzgerald6 ............Cromwells army followed the rules of war in that era ........offer terms of surrender , if they were refused , those who bore arms and continued the fight would be shown no mercy . A short period of looting was permitted by the victors.....
Cromwell maintained discipline by executing his own soldiers who stepped out of line .
I was educated by the Christian Brothers in Liverfpool and it was they who installed in me my love of history. I am a retired professor of history and a Catholic. As you can see, perhaps it was not the school but one bad historian who shaped your views. Dr Brian O'Farrell
The end of this video is particularly poignant, because hatred only brings more hatred, and the only way to prevent this sort of unspeakable horror is to try to never let it happen again.
Sir, I just want to say THANK YOU! Unbiased historical information that’s not leaving the Churches impact into the historical event, is super important, and I appreciate knowing this history! Now if only we can wake up and not allow history to repeat..
An excellent lecture. Thank you very much. This history lesson should be compulsory for all Eire & UK 2nd level students. So many learnings and highlighting the unusual and sometimes unhealthy beliefs and behaviours of all who traditionally share these island's.
The only thing that confounded Cromwell were the poor but brave Irish people who when their half doors were kicked in, held up their Rosary beads unafraid of martyrdom, these people knew their faith back then, they knew that the taking of their life in standing for their faith would raise up hundreds thereafter, the blood of the martyr's ensures that the faith lives on and on!
"The faith lives on and on" as you say and makes it easy for the dirty beasts to have their way.
@@johnpaton6498 🇨🇮👉😋👍☘️
Caroline. We'll that sounds like an unfair fight. How could Cromwell win against rosary beads?
@@johnpaton6498 👍🙏
Truth is Ireland has totally abandoned Catholicism.
Thank you professor for, at the very least, improving my vocabulary.
Internecine caught my eye.
Great video, well covered content.
I am very impressed by this lecture. Professor Ryrie, thank you for your work and for your posting.
It is said in the Bible that the truth sets us free, at least your lectures read through the eyes of a historian. free us from many misleading misconceptions. I have always felt deeply for the way and consequently the French Canadians were similarly treated. because they were also Catholics. It is sadly understandable that many young people refuse to belong to an established church certainly a reflection on past atrocities...Thank you Pr Ryrie for opening our ears and heart to this tragic past historical reality.
Balanced lecture which shows the harmony achieved and how easily it can be lost.
Ireland's "old English" Population were of largely of Norman stock, were very catholic & spoke French.
Actually, the Normans invaded England with a largely French and mercenary army led by Normans, the Norman Army stayed in Normandy to defend it from the French king. They invaded Wales with a largely English army lead by Normans. Then from Wales invaded Ireland with an army made largely of Welsh and the descendants of the English they had invaded Wales with now settled in Pembrookshire. They spoke some Norman French, some Welsh and a lot of Middle English. This language continued to the 19th century and was spoken in Wexford. When Cromwell besieged Wexford they wouldn't have spoken English or Gaelic but their own tongue called Yola a mixture of mostly Middle English, with Welsh, Gaelic and Norman French added it.
@@Fiddling_while_Rome_burns Yes the Normans brought Flemish, Welsh, English servants/soldiers with them, however the French speaking Normans were the ones in charge and ones who owned the land, and they were under the direct rule of the Angevin crown.
Because of the multi-ethnic nature of society in Norman controlled Ireland, there had been much discussion among the new settlers as to how to describe themselves, since the Irish considered them English, they called themselves ‘English,’ despite the fact the vast majority of them were clearly not Anglo-Saxons. Anglo-Norman French & Latin remained the official languages of "The Lordship of Ireland" , until the arrival of the "New English" in the 16th Century.
Surprising error..saying that Ireland was initially invaded “by English Lords”. They were Normand.
@@johnrobdoyle it’s those Normans that still cause the problems today.
@@edcarson3113 ....yup😁....(see above)
Why would English students study the history of Ireland when they barely study the history of their own country?
I'm from a part of England that retained a large Catholic population after the Reformation.
Large numbers of Irish folk settled here and were seen as fellow Catholics.
There was an Irish family on the street I grew up on and another close by.
I was raised by an Irish Catholic mother and she had a keen sense of Ireland's history.
Her father volunteered and served with a Belfast regiment through the Burma campaign.
A Nationalist friend of mine related the reply an Irish journalist gave when asked about the attitude of the English to the conflict in Ireland. His reply was in Irish; and is here in English.
" They are burnt black with it".
That’s the tactic. Thesis versus antithesis to achieve their synthesis. (The ‘their’ being Rome)
"Bhí siad dubh doite aige " is what he said, very common saying , it means they were sick and tired of it.
Like saying they were browned off. Tired of the subject , is what he meant.
@Searlaigh Daily must be that Celtic love of song, music and performance. We Saxons are somewhat more... utilitarian in our outlook.
@@joemacdonnagh6750 surely “dubh doite leis” ?
@@StepDub yes true , leis = with it, aige = by it or him.
1602 was the year George Carew presided over the Dursey Island massacre. He had previously strangled several men, not many tyrants take the hands on approach.
...do we know the half of it? wow. shivver.
Yes, so-called white people massacring innocent Black people. We know all about it. See Anacalypsis by G Higgins and the Ancient Celts by Anna Wilkes.
My mothers side (the Cosbys) were sent by Queen Elizabeth to Stradbally in Ireland where they threw a feast...and murdered every Irish youth that showed up. This resulted later in the "Battle of Stradbally bridge". I've decided if Ireland does unite as one country at some point in the future...I will go celebrate with them and try to atone for that half of my family.
Brilliant and very informative! THX!
Very well done. One dimension he could have touched on was the religious wars and associated massacres of the previous seven decades on the neighbouring continent. The convention that a side that refused an offer of surrender could not count on quarter incuded the civilian population of any town that had resisted a seige. In the 80 years war which saw the birth of the Netherlands as a state and the 30 years war that reduced the area now Germany to depopulated wreckage that happened again and again.
Poynings law (10mins) was passed at sitting of Parliament in Drogheda 1494-95
I am Irish, as such I ask what did we do to contribute to this disaster?
The next question is what weaknesses is decimating the Church in Ireland today?
And finally what is my part in this?
The key in both our ancient history and present issues appears to lie in corrupted family law.
You are very open minded and I applaud you! The victors write the history!
My grandparents were from Ireland.
@@taxidude
That's always bothered me. How do we know the "victors" are telling the truth?
@@neosandy we don't which is why lectures like this one are so important to set context supported by historical evidence rather than spin and propaganda
@@uncatila Then you can apply for Irish citizenship, which comes with an E.U. passport.
Cromwell's Irish campaign and the horrific atrocities reminds one of the Kwangtung Army arrival outside Nanking in 1937.
Cromwell fue un sicópata asesino, que después de muerto fué desenterrado, arrastrado y descuartizado por los propios ingleses y creo, sus restos desaparecidos.😇🇪🇸♥️🇮🇪
Cromwell was a pussycat compared to the atrocities of the Thirty years war.
@@rtk3543 you might want to read up on his time in Ireland then, you appear to be somewhat naive on Cromwell.
@@ggg-eg5pz Ok pussycat is a bit understating it but are you sure your sources are reliable, there was a lot of propaganda regarding Cromwell by Irish writers of the time, he was a bit of hate figure for the Irish.
A very enjoyable and learned lecture. Please note, Drogheda isn't pronounced with a ch in the middle just an H.
The beginning and the end of any war is always the most dangerous time.
Wonderful lecture, Thank you
Loved this. Explains a lot.
Excellent presentation!
Consider me educated. Fantastic lecture.
That was a real eye opener....and in such times that our freedoms depend on 'numbers' ! Thankyou so much for this clearly explained history lesson.
Alec, you do an outstanding job on your presentations. There needs to be many more…..outstanding!
Well done. Thank you!
Excellent lecture. I was born and educated in Dublin in the 70’s/80’s. We were constantly taught the English were the worst people on earth and the Irish were mere victims. We were never taught about 1641 etc. and I had always wondered about Cromwell. This lays an excellent grounding for further research.
I do understand your optimism about the change in Irish attitude however I do not believe it is a softening of the attitude towards the English but merely a loss of what it was to be Irish. The abandonment of the Catholic Church in modern Ireland a major contribution to this.
It has for some time now been my aim to try to understand the underlying abrasive attitude of the Irish towards the English and vice versa. This lecture goes a long way to understanding it.
Thanks again.
The English actually like the Irish,despite it all.
Snap, I've also worked all over America, where an Irish accent is a major advantage, if they can understand it.
I currently live in England.
Over the last 50 years, Irishmen in the British media; the likes Terry Wogan, have done much endear themselves to the British people; 1/3 of whom are of Irish heritage.
The disadvantage perhaps, of people who never left, is they are always looking back, not forward.
The English did this, or that, in 1798, or 1848, or 1916; when really it was the Aristocracy; who treated the Scots, Welsh, and English working class very badly too.
They mostly perished in the Great War.
Within the next 20 years they can peacefully vote for a 32 county Ireland.
With the wholesale rejection of the Catholic Church, the Northern Protestants will have less to objective to, especially as they have seen the true colours of Westminster over Brexit.
We have an all Ireland Rugby and a Hockey team, all we need is an all Ireland football team, to give the Northern Protestants something to cheer about. lol.
@@johngilmore6688 Yes,just get Sinn Fein out of the North first. Maybe we should all just celebrate the British Isles. The divisions are just accents,the rest is BS.
@@paulrimmer2853
Ha..I'd agree, but many won't.
I have a Northern Irish accent, but to someone in Britain or America, it's an Irish accent.
There are many in Ireland who think they might like 32 counties, but it will be very expensive for them, and they need to try to show a kindred spirit to their fellow Irishmen in the North.
Time is a great healer, it will take much wisdom from statesmen.
I doubt whether Ireland would want to be anything but an Independent Republic, but some might say, a few more years within the EU, they will feel like being shackled, not Independent, especially if they have to pay more in, than they take out.
@@johngilmore6688 I admire your optimism however I would also add that it is not only those that live outside the country that look back. It is taught within Irish schools (like some sort of BLM narrative) that “English bad, Irish victims”. This is ingrained into the populace. When I return to Ireland people will not allow any discussion on it. The current latest narrative is the Irish famine being noted as genocide and not taking the situation into the context of the politics of the day. But then when you are not taught about events in the UK like the Jarrow March or Orwell’s “The road to Wigan Pier” then your outlook is massively one-sided.
Excellent presentation, as always.
Excellent briefing on the religious history of the island of Ireland.
@36:44 "Neither island could be secure if the other was held by a hostile regime."
That point sums up the relationship between Britain and Ireland.
Everything about the complex relationship between the 2 countries over the last couple of centuries can be understood by looking from that perspective.
This includes Anglican-Catholic tension, Anglo-Spanish imperial rivalry, WWI, WWII, the Cold War, and even today in Britain's post-Brexit emerging relationship with the EU.
This was excellent. Thank you so much. I'm a proud Irish Canadian. I was brought up by my father singing Irish rebel songs. The history of Ireland breaks my heart. We used to say that there was no such thing as an Irish Protestant, though now a days you'd be hard put to find a "practicing" Catholic in Canada, Irish or not, but that's not the point is it? In the ealry 90s I lived in Cambridge for four years, and was often quite casually told that all Irish are drunks and cheats. Thanks for recalibrating the illusion.
Many thanks for the lecture and the balance you attempted to bring to one of the saddest parts of our history. I live in and come originally from some of the areas that Cromwell 'pacified'. I grew up being taught in both school and at home of his Irish campaign, especially in Drogheda. Believe it or not even now Cromwell is still a very dark figure in my generations psyche, even though so much time has passed, which makes me appreciate and reflect on your view that some atrocities have a significant political dimension when compared to other equally appalling events which are allowed to fade. Much to reflect on. Thanks again.
brilliant explication of irish history ,well researched
It sounded like an apologia for Cromwell. But then, it is an English history of Ireland.
If Britain wanted Ireland to "go away" try not invading and occupying it.
@@docastrov9013 but thats easier said that done when your whole voting base revolves around supremacy
That was worth every moment of my attention.
Fantastic! Thanks!
I thought the Macdonalds were on the side of the Irish Confederates. They certainly where not Covenanters. Randal Macdonald was Catholic along with Alistair McColla. Other highland clans and mercenaries fought on the side of the Irish Confederates during the wars of the three kingdoms. Presbyterians, Episcopalians and Catholics tried to put a Catholic King back on the throne of Britain in a number of Jacobite uprisings. I have always thought of the Highlands of Scotland and South Ireland being very similar whilst lowland Scots and the Northern Irish are similar.
The reason why lowlanders and Ulster Scots are alike, is because they are the same people. Great waves of Sottish migration took place over the c16 and c17 from Scotland to Ulster. The people in the North was said to speak the language of the Scots. The English may have rulled over Ulster, but it was the Scottish who planted it. Yet, they were treated just slighty better than the Irish by their English masters.
There was a difference sometimes between certain Scots. The first thing to remember is that some of the Scots were also Gaelic and culturally, the Gaelic Irish and Gaelic Scots from the Highlands often seen eachother as almost the same people - in Ireland they were able to mix with local society often without much question. The Mac Donnells in Antrim were as such, although they tried to work both sides to keep their land and let protestants settle in their territory. At the time there was a religious divide in the Highlands, and Catholic highlanders tended more to have sympathies with the Irish (like Alasdair Mac Colla). Lowlanders who weren't necessarily culturally Gaelic were also mostly Protestant. The Protestant Scots who came into Ulster were largely those who settled here and the religious and/or cultural difference plus the conflict created the divisions that came to be.
@@Oscarhobbit Rubbish. The Scots became dominant & respected in Ulster after 1690.
I think you mean the McDonnells? There was a Randal McDonnell who became Earl of Antrim. He was a Catholic and was accused after the ECW of involvement in the 1641 rebellion. This was probably true - some of his family certainly were. However he managed to hold onto his lands.
@@mango2005 Is this the same Randal McDonnell who owned Dunluce Castle. He was a Catholic and started a failed plantation at Dunluce. If so, Dunluce was attacked in 1641 rebellion. The town and Church was burned to the ground, but I think they could not breech the castle. If my memory is correct, Cromwell later fired the castle.
Most of the Ulster plantation settlers were from the Scottish Lowlands ,not the Highlands
Some were even English - they were Border Reivers exiled by James I (VI) at start of his reign . These were family groups of seasoned outlaws who had been at their trade for more than 200 years. They were well equipped militarily to deal with their opposite numbers on the other side of the Scots border . They built and occupied Pell Towers (block houses) across Northumberland to defend themselves both from the Scots and rival families as long running vendettas were common place among them. When called upon they could put scores of men in to the saddle to conduct raids on the Scots and other opponents. James had the worst of them hung (the Armstrongs and Elliotts were particularly nasty) but he was keen to get the rest of them over to Ulster. There is a strong possibility that my own ancestors were among them.
Southern Uplands.
@@kevingray3550 Yup, one thing not often covered in history is James taking the English throne ended hostility between England and Scotland, so proved the death of the Reivers. Still today some of the oldest folk traditions in England and Scotland survive in Reiver areas.
Mostly Lowlanders but the McDonnells were Gaelic.
@@mango2005 The McDonnells were gallowglas.
As an answer to your initial question, I remember that we were taught some Irish history at my comprehensive school in Bristol (GCE 'O'-level history 1964), along with with quite a lot of British social history.
Poetic and instructive. Thank you very much for this!
That is the best account of Cromwell's invasion I have ever heard.
It was awful!
@Sullivan Ramsel Cromwell was supreme.
@@paulrimmer2853 Cromwell was a genocidal maniac.
@@paulbangash4317 Hardly. He was a superb general,a powerful statesman & by the standards of his time remarkably lenient. Imagine if he had simply reversed the 1641 Catholic atrocities!!
Paul Rimmer
"By the standards of the time..."
Lol!
Weren't the Anglo-Normans invited by Dermot, the deposed king of Leinster?
Yes. The lecturer should have mentioned this
Yes, Diarmaid Mac Murchadha, King of Leinster (Dermot McMurrough in English) asked for the Anglo-Normans to help him re-gain his throne. That's essentially where the 'Old English' referred to in this lecture came from. The Anglo-Normans arrived in 1169 - about 500 years before the era being discussed in this lecture. Why are you linking that directly to the topic under discussion here?
@@conorlynch1786 because the presenter mentions in passing the Anglo-Norman invasion, but doesn't put into the correct context.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 oh, I see. Must have missed the reference. Useful lecture nonetheless.
@@conorlynch1786 yes, it filled in a few blanks in my history education.
Thanks for the invaluable information!
Excellent lecture, very accurate, very balanced and dare I say it, wise 👍
Absolutely outstanding.
Education is lifting the yoke of christian/muslim/jewish religious belief off the shoulders of Humanity.
The quote, "Those who do not learn from history are 'condemned' to repeat it" should be permanently intertwined with, "Fear of knowledge
Very informative but my opinion of Oliver Cornwell has not changed.
Would expect that
Gresham College, is there not a bit missing from the recording at 3:55? But thanks for your lectures.
gonna guess wild mass censorship by TH-cam for some odd reason
The tradition of miss information is a long and well developed one. Centuries of honing their expertise it would seem.
Who is Miss Information? I thought she was a myth. Maybe I've been the target of misinformation.
@@justmyster1976 She was English and although unmarried had a very large family. Most of them live in Britain still.
The great shame of us Irish that can never be erased is our abandonment of the basic principles of decency and humanity when we cynically chose to ignore the persecution of the Jewish race and ethnic minorities under the Nazis.The English stood up for humanity and compassion, we on the other hand walked away and pretended there was no problem.
Excellent. It's sad how these themes are perpetuated in popular culture in Scotland as well, to a great extent through the great Glasgow football rivalry.
You have missed out the role of the Scottish Border Rievers, many of whom eventually moved to America and as Scots Irish became a significant factor in American history .
That’s where the word “bereaved” is from.
Pity they did not all go as then we would not have the bigoted orange unionists idiots who nobody wants
Really great lecture, Its interesting that Dublin's Temple bar area is still so named, i guess the history of John Temple and his son william temple have eluded the connection of the propaganda described in this video.
If Alec had asked his audience to raise a hand if they had a close Irish ancestor, he might have got a few responses. My wife had an Irish mother and so did her father. Having two Irish grandmothers might be unusual, but having just one is not in my experience. After the Bexit vote the Irish embassy in England received many requests for Irish passports by English people who thought that it would enable them to still travel and work in the EU.
An excellent lecture.
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you Dr Eyrie - just one point to add: Ireland supported Henry VII's opponents the Yorkists during the Wars of the Roses, so there was already animosity before Henry VIII claimed Kingship
Ryrie
What a magisterial lecture series!
I’m Irish, the English are one of the most influential people that have ever existed.
A great video , best I have seen for a very long timev
How did I learn about the English Civil War at school without learning about the events in Ireland? Bizarre
Thank you from an Irish nationalist. I'm certainly not a supporter of Sinn Féin.
why do you need to qualify your answer , without sinn fein ,there would be no Irish State , also the catholics in the six counties would still be under orange rule
@@itseamuscallan7004 Seamus the Republican!
@@itseamuscallan7004 you fool Sinn Fein divided Ireland, which was only ever united by the English Monarchy.
@@edcarson3113 obviously a relative of Sir Edward, your presence is the consequence of plantation and ethnic cleansing, what else could you say
@@itseamuscallan7004 are you talking about the plantation of a million Irish into Britain since World War 2?
You only have to go to Hodges & Figgis on Dawson St and count the number of books on Ireland's relationship with Britain, hundreds of books, you go to a book Shop in England, you'd be lucky to find 3....herein lies the rub.. they don't want to be reminded of Ireland
If I were them I wouldn't either. I think they call that a guilty conscience.
@@neosandy Baloney. The Irish sided with Rome & lost. Wrong choice baby. Keep speaking English its a sign.
Don’t care,more like.
@Nick Bointon and your evidence is Nick? What are you, some eugenist?
@@paulrimmer2853 obviously a language you still fail to grasp Paul...I would check your own diction and grammar.. 'it's....a sign!
The original settlers weren't English, they were Normans, who subjugated the Irish as much as they did the English. I blame the french.
The Irish begged Robert de Clare to get involved. The Normans wisely did not want any involvement with the mad Paddys . It was the Pope who insisted they tame the beast.
@@paulrimmer2853 I think you might have to do a little more research into that.
@@hughmckendrick3018 King Dermot of Leinster. Pursued the Norman's with a vengeance to save his neck. Adrian IV sent the Norman's in to claim the Peter's Pence.
And yet the Normans were able to find a way to adopt & adapt to the local culture, becoming ‘more Irish than the Irish themselves’
@@Conorguill Not really Conor. They changed the East of Ireland & ensured old Gaelic Ireland would die.
The Irish unfortunately never had the luxury to ignore their neighbours history.
I’m from Wexford and Cromwell will never be allowed to be forgotten here.
I hear he killed mostly English settlers not indigenous Irish
@@jonathanclarke281 yes but a lot of Irish then in Wexford were in fact “old English “ Catholics that settled before Cromwell who wouldn’t follow Henry VIII
They were late comers 😂😂😂
@@jonathanclarke281 Please send links to reputable sources that support your claim. Thanks!
When the battle at Wexford began Cromwell wasn't even there. He had gone to talk with the mayor of Wexford to discuss terms of surrender. But something happened which induced the Parliamentary army to assail the perimeter walls.
So you read your entire lecture ? Hence it's written down, can one read it, did you publish it?
Please repair critical loss of sound at 3'56: "... at Catholic hands"
Brexit's "Irish Border" is a British border in Ireland.
or without euphemism : the britts' "order" (or desorder) in Ireland !
Ulster is the last colony of the victorian empire.
Superb lecture, many thanks
As for Drogeda some information is missing here that sheds more light on it. Drogheda wasn't a Confederate town, but had in fact been besieged twice by the Confederates for not declaring for the Confederacy. Secondly English Royalists made up much of the occupying force holding Drogheda, after failing in two civil wars, the English Royalists that retreated to Ireland to continue the struggle were seen in England as fundamentalists, the equivalent today of ISIS. The troops that held out in the inner keep who surrendered and then were massacred were the English Royalists. I think the English Royalist presence shouldn't be underestimated when explaining Cromwell's actions at Drogheda. Cromwell let the Confederates surrender many times and honoured it, the one time he didn't it was when the English Royalist were around.
Secondly he is often praised for his humanity in sparing the civilians, however the majority of the civilians were English protestant setters (hence the fact the Confederate had to besiege the town twice). Cromwell's not exactly going to massacre English protestants is he? So I don't think a great act of humanity for Cromwell not to massacre them.
Excellent .... fascinating - I also knew little of this period of history
Thanks for this. I do hope this isnt a prescient description of our current simmering woke religions wars.
Eloquent, measured, revealing, and... painful, inevitably, at least for this viewer. Thank you...
I think you will the first lord of Ireland was more Norman than English.
Normans being vikings.
Speaking French with British armed forces under them... At a time vikings traded slaves trough Dublin
@@fionafiona1146 The Normans were descendants of Hrolfr(Rollo) who did a deal with Charles the Simple to protect France from other Viking raiders. In return he got land in Normandy (territory of the Norsemen). Hrolfr had been outlawed by the king of Norway.
@@johnconlon2207 convoluted, cool
If only they’d had Hate Speech laws and knew their diversity was their greatest strength.
Hilarious!
Oh a diversity wallah. Divided we stand then.
😆
Nice presentation
Some think history is better forgotten. Are we all to divolve into sardine like beings.
Thankyou for the Irish History. My mother was Irish....but stepmother was English. As an Australian we did not study this History. Our stepmother didn't like the Irish so we were not allowed to talk or study that part of our heritage.
My grandfather was from Drogheda.
great lecture thanks.
Very interesting. Oliver was voted one of the ten greatest Englishmen whoever lived by a poll in England. Really?
Cromwell stood for Truth & Liberty. His enemies were scoundrels to a man. Deserving of everything they got.
@@paulrimmer2853 Liberty for people like himself and repression and even death to the "others."
@@mikecain6947 It was civil war. Victors & vanquished.
@@paulrimmer2853 It was colonialism. The War of the Roses was a civil war.
@@mikecain6947 The Irish backed York during the War of the Roses & Catholicism during the Religious Wars Perpetual losers.
Leave Ireland for the Irish, not for London
or for Rome.
Ar least Rome was our allay.
The atrocities go both ways.
are you english?
Thank you!