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@@maggiemay8622yeah bc if you try to defend or explain or point out their wrong doing, the narcissist denies it, gaslights and then seeks revenge and gossips about you. My mother. I went no contact w her.
@@gracecase998 Part of my ego sometimes wants to reactivate those old toxic relationships. It makes me realise how deep these beliefs or phoney love is within me ( from birth) I always ask this question at these times. Does my true authentic self want to be in a relationship with this person, family or group? Will rekindling this relationship bring me peace? The answer is always no !
@@alanfrancis9225 such a true statement. I have questioned that so much in my life. You wonder did you do the right thing or is that my trauma trying to protect me. Thanks.
I've been suicidal, stuck in this family dynamic. I went no contact, not responding to calls, emails, or text messages. It has been the best thing for me. I'm in counseling and learning that it'ss possible to live without fear or anxiety.
Councillor was great to validate my hurt I was always told by my family I was over reacting or too sensitive. I so glad to have that final breakdown to build a whole new life agai for me and my Son . Your never alone in these things 😘
I’m sorry. Feeling suicidal is so stigmatizing and isolating. I hope you are reaching out. I know in these families means they will not support you. Reaching into the wrong love pot when you’re feeling that way is not a rejection you need. We are here. ❤️
✨️I too understand. Truly. You posted this a year ago. I am sending my best wishes that time has brought you even more healing and hope. No contact saved my sanity. I cringe 😖 when I think of what my father must think of me for it and I occasionally grieve that I may not know when or how he dies or anything else about his life 😔, but I wouldn't change my decision for anything. I had suffered as much abuse 🎯as I could stand and I am not willing to participate in one more moment from his cruel mouth. I have learned how to love myself 💖 and I finally no longer hear him in my head telling me how disappointing I am ❤️🩹 or shaming me for coming to him longing to be loved when I so clearly didn't warrant it 💔. Yeah, I'm good with some occasional grief about not knowing... I really am proud that I found the courage 💪🏻 to choose myself when I'd been brainwashed 🧠🧼 to do the opposite. Wow, I didn't know I had all this in me to say. Thank you for posting - I needed the inspiration! 💫
It’s difficult when you and your sibling never grew up together since birth and when you finally go be with your extended family after just getting out of a difficult life with a toxic father and being homeless with him, only to be met with some sort of rejection from having just the same family home life as your sibling all because they raised him or her and not you… 😔
I could dominate this whole message board, so could all of us, so I will stop. For sure I'm signing up in January. Do me a world of good. A bit late..but better late than never. Confirms so much
The pain on Jerry's face, always present when he talks about Narcisstic abuse, .just serves to underscore his sincerity. Does anyone else notice this,.+ feel the same? 😢
Growing up, My dad tried to exert control over EVERYTHING I liked or did. He had an issue with the tv shows I watched, the clothes I wore, how I styled my hair. I thought once I grew up got my own place and paid my own bills he’d stop trying to control me and my life. Wrong! I’m 36, and he STILL thinks he’s entitled to dictate to me what I should and shouldn’t be doing in my own damn house! It’s unreal.
I live next to a turnpike, I got off the next exit, away from him(emotionally, physically, and in other ways) since his way is the highway. I am protecting myself. An analogy.
In other words, "don't have any reaction that makes me look bad or feel guilty when I inflict pain upon you." So, in reality, who is actually hypersensitive? They are because they can't handle anyone expressing any type of emotion towards them that they would have to deal with, respond to it even process in any way. Too much work for their weak ego/self.
It takes away sibling relationships that are much harder to reestablish as adults. It's amazing what someone can just brush off as normal because it's how they were raised. It takes years away from the craziness to start recognizing how messed up a lot of things really are that they always accepted as normal.
Yep. My narcisstic mother divided her parents/siblings, my dads family, her second husbands family and my siblings and me. The only thing this woman did in her life is destroying families and people.
Our family Rule 1: Bob, my malignant narcissist older brother can do or say whatever he wants. Rule 2: if Bob hurts you, he didn't actually hurt you - you're just overreacting or making it up.. Rule 3. If you are actually hurt, it isn't that bad. Rule 4. If it's really bad, he didn't mean to, so you need to let it go, stop bringing it up. Rule 5. What was your part in this? Why are you so judgmental?
@@3mparchangel357 My mother saw, heard and knew of Bob's physical, sexual and emotional abuse of me from the time I was born until I was 13 and he joined the military, which gave me a 3-year break at home. You can call her looking the other way, dismissing it as though it didn't happen, telling me it wasn't as bad as I said or was probably partially my fault, etc. whatever you need to call it.
This is so funny 🤣 😆 😄 this is the most accurate example of what my family acts like... .I got the brunt of it cuz I was chosen to be the scapegoat-blamed for everything and I'm now just trying to get myself out of this demonic web by going no contact..... but of course my sister, who has always been the golden child is contacting me repeatedly through the flying monkeys to come back to my original role because she needs someone to project all the misery on..... .took me my entire lifetime to figure out what was really happening in this family-with constant accusations and bully treatment-now I know I'll never go back!!!
Once you leave that narcissistic, dysfunctional family NEVER GO BACK. It’s easy to believe that over time, people change. BUT REMEMBER, you changed and they never will. It’s easy to miss your family in your imagination. Over time, you’ll start endowing them with magical properties, turning them into the loving, kind, and supportive family you always dreamed of. But it’s a lie. They are still destructive. DO NOT GO BACK.
I would add one more rule - you are used as a tool, an aid, your time is not respected, your space is not respected, your needs, abilities, interests are not respected. (This could include possible sexual abuse).
Yes, you may be about to go out on a date, or on an outing with a group of friends, which you planned well in advance and told your parents about, when suddenly some crisis comes up and then you can't go. Or your room may be used as a dumping ground for other people's stuff, or other people (both parents and siblings) might go through your belongings. My next older sister would sometimes raid my piggy bank, when we were sharing a room and she had run out of money and wanted to go out and spend some money with her friends. And she also used to share my diary with one of her friends. She would purposely find the most embarrassing parts and have her friend read them out loud, on Saturday mornings when I was trying to sleep in after a tough week. And I was told that I was supposed to accept this as "normal" behavior, that all sisters did this to each other.
my mother used to literally say "damned if i do, damned if i don't" all the time right in front of me as a child as she was going through her own frustrations.... sheeeesh
You just described the family I grew up in 100% accurately. Thank you. Things like this help remind me that I was not crazy, and that I am a worthwhile human being.
Yes exactly 💯 these videos on narcissism let's me see 👀 and know that I wasn't crazy and that what I had experienced was even worse than what I had thought- cuz I didn't know it was called abuse -psychological abuse is one of the worst form of abuse anyone can experience because it takes a long time to figure out what is happening to you
I've been disowned because I dared to finally grow a backbone in my 50's and stand up to the whole family and their abuse. My mother is the covert narc and my father has been a preacher my entire life. Everything was about appearances. Nothing was genuine. When I found out my nephew was molesting my daughter, I blew a gasket and called the cops. Long story short, they all think my daughter is lying because my brother is the golden child and thus his kids are the golden grandchildren. And because they all go to church, they would never do such things. I beg to differ with them! This list is probably one of the most accurate I have heard that fits my own personal experience. I will be listening to more of your videos. Thank you!
Good heavens! our stories have so many similarities! I spoke up for an abused child who came to me begging for help. I believed her and advocated for her and the shit hit the fan. I became the evil enemy when i refused to step in line and follow marching orders.
I am with you on it, sister, have been in church most of my life, seen it all, and molestation by the church boys - godly cousins too. It ruined the girls' confidence in adulthood.
I joined what turned out to be an evangelical cult when I was 19. The thing that kept me their for 5-6 years was that the demands made of me, & my ex’s constant criticism, seemed pretty normal after my upbringing.
Somehow i have the feeling that most of those Jim Jones cult members were running from their own narcissistic family. I'm sure lots of them were "black sheep/scapegoats" of their family and they craved to be accepted by others outside not realizing they were running into the arm of an even bigger predator. Poor souls they kept repeating the same toxic cycle. It was a terrible event. My heart goes out to all of them. 😢
@ that is one of the most brilliant observations on the subject I have ever heard. I grew up in a family cult and became super religious, ending up in Christian churches (that I helped start, for free!) and eventually had to leave because they became cults. Took me a couple of painful experiences before I learned. I’m 62 and hadn’t thought that ending up in those ‘cults’ was a result of running from my family of origin. Thank you ❤️🔥
Because some members of society back the abuser, not the victim; it is devastating. I am done with Dad's abuse of me, which he said he did(still does) because "you are nice and polite", his excuse for the abuse. I was 26 then. I am 61 now, I don't live with him, thankfully. I don't bother with him.
BOOM!!!🧨🧨🧨 All 22 🎯. I'm 56. I "escaped" my narcissist family at age 53, with some excellent therapy and divine grace. Finally learned self-love and inner- peace. It's never too late to free yourself from toxicity.🙂
17:06 interesting, I’m 69, have lived in the dysfunction as the scapegoat/depository of all bad feelings all these years… Then something occurred two years ago… And I started to see through the veil… I went Black rock and worked on myself for two years, and my family now rages, and their crazy behavior is sticking out all over the place, and I just flit away like a butterfly and the anger, the anxiety, the fear, the hyper vigilance has dissolved into calm & quiet!: It’s the most amazing transformation, I almost feel like Paul on the road to Damascus…
Great list! I'd add 23: If nothing bad happens, something bad must be invented. 24. Loyalty to the lie is paramount; any perceived disloyalty (even in thought!) will be punished.
Yup, aswell as 25. the golden child gets anything they want, they can drink multiple cartons of milk every day and eat as much bacon as they like, but the scapegoat doesnt even get fed properly, gets sent away from dinner, gets yelled at for breakfast, health issues and abuse from outside the family and constant stomach aches throughout childhood and being underweight, cold, sad, and hungry is completly ignored. One time asking for anything other then bread, since she was obviously allergic but no one cared, resulted in violent punishment for the audacity to ask for such a luxury, anything other then bread, how could she be such a spoiled brat, does she thinks we are made of money, be ashamed! (brother munches on an abundance of milk and bacon, sister not even allowed to have a bit becasue "growing boys need more food".... I got to buy a cup-of-soup once, but didnt like it, which ofcourse resulted in loads of screaming and cursing and violence and shaming..... So still today as an adult I have a very hard time allowing myself to eat. My stomach acts like it dont know what to do with food, still.
@@audhumbla6927 när jag var barn så köpte min mamma kokt skinka som smörgåspålägg åt min syster( eftersom hon åt så dåligt). Jag fick inte ta av den kokta skinkan. Till saken hör att min far var vd med så god lön att vi hade två bilar (pappa körde Mercedes), sommarstuga, mamma kunde fundera på vilket skomärke hon föredrog (Ferragamo eller Bally ), men jag fick inte äta samma mat som min syster….
I ran off into the military to escape my family. Eventually I went "no contact" by the advice of counseling. I totally retrained my mind by about 40 years old. Relapsed some with PTSD, got back mentally with the help of some wonderful people "vets" at about 50. It's difficult to shake it when you are raised to be just like them.
I hear ya. Glenn Beck said he's going through it too and he thinks it's a lifelong project and I think he might be right. Keep hanging in there. I'm the scapegoat too.
@@websurfer5772 Great point. Is that an interview you are referring to? It seems like a life's work, to overcome.I am determined even if I die while trying, Lol.
@@brendaplunkett8659 I was listening to some videos of Glenn's on YT awhile back and he kept bringing this topic up because he's dealing with his own grief over his upbringing. I guess he just brings it up in videos about other topics because it's always on his mind or in the back of his mind, and then anything can trigger it - as we all know. I was surprised because it was odd coming from a former TV personality like his, but I'm glad he's broaching it and sharing his feelings about it with us. Just like you, I want to overcome it too, but I'm afraid he might be right, at least for me.
Same here, joined the combat engineers right after 9-11, regret coming back seeing all the loss and continued abuse from there, I wish I could get my mom and brother some of the help I had. I always wanted to talk to veterans, as a kid they were my hero’s still and are as brothers. I didn’t even know what a drill Sargent was, much less anything else.
I'm the scapegoat and was discarded (thank God), my sister is just syphoning the lies from my dad and is trying to further the manipulation of my hellish experience. I was a mental prisoner in my own home, and punished for having independent thought.
My father told me, “I don’t believe we hurt you, I just think you have a problem listening to authority.” Context. I was pregnant and taking too long to move a box so my grandmother yelled at me and when I told my dad she hurt my feelings he told me that I’m not hurt and I just need to learn to listen. There is no way he doesn’t know what he said was wrong. Like there is a zero percent chance he is unaware he was full of sh*.
and they keep changing the definition of acceptable... you can never make them happy and will die trying, in the meantime... Have a great cup of coffee and laugh with the people who like you!
@@marybusch6182wow! That's the main point. They'll change the goals mid-way or the moment you've somehow completed it, they'll have another one ready beforehand. The only thing they want is to NOT let the person have _autonomy._
I had to go no contact to get away from the constant abuse. It doesn't matter how old you get, this narcissistic family system will never change. There's another narcissists who will continue the nightmare. Normally the golden child carries the dysfunction to the next generation.
Yes it is weird. My mother died five years ago, and I thought I was free, but my siblings closed ranks around the "super family" even though they don't speak to each other. I was hoping we could finally speak to each other as individuals, but that ain't gonna happen.
@@fredhubbard7210 Yeah, I had the same sort of thing with my older brother. My father was the main narcissist and he was the golden child. I thought may be we could get along but that's not gonna happen. He's just getting worse as he gets older. I've realized that's never gonna change.
Yes. My mother was the golden child and abuses everyone (her siblings, my dad, me). My sister is the golden child and also she abuses me (I’m the scapegoat). Now my sister has two small children and I feel so sorry for them. I’m convinced she will abuse her children and one of them will become the golden child and the other one the scapegoat.
I was actually also hoping that when my evil, abusive, narcissist mother will pass away, that I will be free. But with my narcissist siblings who also abuse me, I guess I won’t be free when my mother passes away. 😳
In case someone wants to read over the rules again after watching the video: 1 Seeing acceptance [of yourself] as conditional 2 Submission [to narcissist] is required 3 Someone must be blamed for [family] problems 4 Vulnerability is dangerous 5 You must take sides (the narcissists) 6 There's never enough love and respect to go around [in the family]. These ressources are limited for everyone but the narcissist/golden child. Respect and love for one person means disrespect and no love for another. 7 Feelings are wrong for everyone but the narcissist. They are the only ones allowed to have emotional expression and be allowed to state needs. 8 One-up-manship, favoritism, constant comparisons. 9 Appearances are more important than substance ( 10 Rage [of the narcissist] is normalized 11 Denial [of the narcissists abuse, mistreatmen and neglict] is rampant 12 There is no safety 13 No one can be or should be okay. 14 Fear must always be present. Anxiety must guide everyone. 15 Always avoid, never resolve. Keep your head down, stay under the radar. You can't resolve anything so you must avoid. 16 Always be angry OR appeasing. Usually flip-flop between the two. As you are not allowed to be angry you must suppress it, though. 17 Differentiation or confidence in anyone other than the narcissists must be punished or shamed or rejected. Difference between narcissist and yourself can not be tolerated. 18 Never count on parental support. 19 Always enmesh, boundaries are not permissible. 20 You must always be borrowing or loaning a self, never have a self. We must fill up other peoples' buckets, not our own. 21 Systems feelings always trump true feelings. Systems feelings are guilt, shame, fear of abandonment, fear of rejection, fear of sadness, fear of hurt. True feelings are rejection, hurt, sadness, abandonment, fear. 22 The narcissistic familys super-self must be shared and borrowed from for as long as the narcissist lives. Your self must be the family-self. Don't disagree from your own self.
I grew up thinking I'm a loser and I'm ugly, unwanted and should die. I couldn't walk straight, developed eating disorders, my confidence was in minus, i wouldn't even speak a word in class. It went way worse from there. I was at a constant risk and lost my head. It struck me at the age of 28 through a psychologist that my mother and my sister are narcissists and that it's time for me to move out. 4 years out and it still haunts me. I'm unable to get out of the trauma. I wish the suffering ends.
@@InsanitysApex i used to agree with this sentiment. i no longer do. the unconditional part is the concept of grace and mercy, and many people do practice this form of relating to others, especially in the context of being imperfect of making a mistake.
@Lynn-nx6ue unfortunately they are very insecure and you being confident makes them remember that. Makes them look bad and some how… you being okay is a very a front to their very low self esteem. You can’t fill a bucket with a hole in it and it’s not your job to patch it. 💕
With my N mom I see it as maybe she feels it as a rejection. My N mom gets really frustrated when my brother and I use vocabulary she doesn't know . Her vocabulary is very limited because she didn't get through school as a child and didn't bother gaining an education as she became an adult. She yells " stop using those 10 dollar words"! She actually brags on herself for not "wasting her life in school and gaining student debt" !She feels she's done just fine without all that "Hoopla" ! She thinks everyone is just trying to "look like something they're not by going to college" it's humiliating when she says these things in public 😖
Same. That may be because they had narcissistic traits, but it wouldn't be enough to be diagnosed with a disorder. It's interesting because I have no idea how my dad got like that. My grandma, aunts and uncle have always been kind people (and they married good people, too). My mom had a bad relationship with her mother who may have been an actual narcissist, and my mom was the scapegoat. She didn't like to talk about her childhood so I'm not sure what all happened, but I guess she picked up some of those traits through trauma and a desire for acknowledgement and love from her mother. I used to think my mother lashed out at me because she had chronic pain. But after watching some videos today, I have to admit that pain is no excuse for my mother's behavior. I would never even think of treating a child or teenager the way I was treated. It's sad that no one noticed how much I was struggling, maybe because I was quiet and got decent grades (but not good enough, because a C in calculus is unacceptable, I guess). Meanwhile my sister always had help with her homework from my mom, got her license as a teenager and started taking college courses in high school, had nice teeth because of braces, etc.
You described my family perfectly. I am a 58 year old woman who grew up in a narcissistic home. I have 6 siblings in which most suffer from mental health disorders. My mother was a narsaccist as well as at least 3 siblings, all undiagnosed. My dad was very compassionate and supportive quite a bit of the time, but he had to live under the rule of my narcissistic mother and was a workaholic farmer who was not often home during the day. As a child and teenager, there was no safe haven within my family. There was narcissistic abuse in every direction. In my attempt to find love and acceptance, I married an abusive man, at age 22, which I divorced 3 years later. After many years of being single and trying to self heal, at the age of 40, I married a wonderful man. After having to deal with all of my siblings and settling a family trust, the extent of the dysfunction and abuse came to light. Thanks to good friends, a few close trustful relatives, and self help videos like yours I am able to help myself and understand this craziness.
The scapegoats I've meet have the best insight as to what is going on. All this counterdependent activity. Pit the children against each other. Appearance over substance. Gossip is normalized.
@@fredhubbard7210 I'm the scapegoat/ invisible child (depending on the season) and until now I'm the only one who accepts my mother is a covert narcissistic. It took me months of research and observing her until I could actually accept it. I don't even bother with telling my siblings because they won't believe me. It's almost impossible to unmask a covert especially that her abuse is behind doors and often other siblings are not around to witness it. It's true, the scapegoat knows the most because their pain is the most real.
Yes, they become so afraid of what we might "tell" about them that we get slandered, belittled, nothing is good enough, etc. and the funny thing is that since we don't think like they do, we would NEVER TELL other people. We find the family drama embarrassing. So, we live with knowing that other people believe all sorts of things about us that simply aren't true. I like to jokingly say that I've been slandered into an identity crisis. But then sense of humor isn't a trait they possess so they don't get my jokes anyway. :-)
@@laurajane4806 totally. They tell me all this nasty shit about themselves and I’m expected to shoulder their pain. My mother tells me that her brother used her as a “practice girl” and that my dad hits and verbally abused her. My sister told me that she enjoys telling her husband about her previous boyfriends and how great they were (I was appalled at this; this hurts so bad as a guy). And this is just with my family. For some reason I’m a lightning rod for peoples bullshit and I am routinely abused in the workplace. You are right, if they just told me this stuff I would just feel bad for them and would leave it at that. But, I think they think that I would be as shitty as them and blab about it that they start smearing me and accusing me of stuff that I never did or said. It’s so frustrating because I try to live my life with integrity. Makes me want to become a hermit, at least then I could just sit and read without thinking about how shitty everyone is.
I was the scapegoat in my family of two other Golden Children Brother and Sister. I wish i was adopted because i would of got a better chance to have a chance at having a normal brother or sister relationship. I stepped away from the family for 5 years and did so much counselling and healing and was doing great. Limited my time seeing them along with my Narc parent. My Narc parent passed and was sad to see that and thought i could go back and now let my GC brother and sister to heal and finally be themselves. Worst mistake i ever made and my brother took over the role my Narc parent had, nearly cost me my physical health. I firmly blame my Narc parent for dividing everyone from a young age. Wish i had of stayed away period . If your a scapegoat you will never fix years of conditoning
Thanks for sharing, after my narc father died I thought as you did, but the situation it's even worst: my narc mother feels empowered and spell hate, grudge and envy out of her mouth more than ever, my narc siblings are taking the role of my nar father, it seems like a demon or many of them jumping on people, I am determinated to go no contact. M
My older brother physically abused me and when I went to my mom crying and telling her what he did she said "I don't want to hear about it" . She didnt want to be 'inconvenienced'.
My mother always watched my brother beat up my sister and me, smiling. She was smiling and never told my brother anything like “stop it” or “why are you beating up your sister/s”.
When I was a 14 year old girl my narc father threatened me with beating with a belt unless I posed nude for him so he could sit there and drink his wine and stare and make lewd comments. I told my mother what he did. She just said, “He didn’t do that.” Well yes, Mom, he did. So to deal with this horrid upbringing I joined some friends from high school at their youth group at church, which I found really helpful. But at home? I was absolutely the instant and absolute scapegoat. How dare I identify with something besides our screwed up family! You’re spot on here.
Here it is in a nutshell. This was EXCELLENT!!! It has taken me 60 years and many therapists, none of which suggested the possibility of narcissistic family system, to unravel this painful misery. Once I began learning about Narcissim I suggested the possibility to the last three psychologists I saw…all three, including one old hag and one Phd student at university totally dismissed me/my idea. I spent a good chunk of my life going to Psychologist and asking “what was wrong with me“. They all went along with me never questioning the family system. To say I have no faith in psychiatric community…and don’t get me started on the DSM and fraudulent psychiatric community. 😢
I was a school psychologist for 28 years. I saw the ineffectiveness of therapy with the kids and families I worked with. Therapists, for the most part, hate their jobs, and don’t care for their clients, over medicate, and have no skin in the game. Additionally, I’m the scapegoat of a narcissistic family, and then married a narcissist, so went to several therapists. They were all worthless. I went no contact two years ago, and still ruminate. I don’t see much healing in my future. Healing ❤️🩹 is so slow!
This reminds me of a conversation I had with my sister (our father’s golden child) after I disclosed to her his sexual abuse and told her I had been in counseling for the past couple years and decided that I needed so time of no contact with our parents while I dealt with my feelings. She said that I needed to find a good Christian counselor because obviously regular therapy wasn’t working for me if I wanted to cut contact with our parents, even temporarily. I was so hurt at the time but now I understand that her self image hinges on the perfect image of our family. The golden child is a victim of the narcissist as well.
I grew up in a narcissistic home also. My sister was the golden girl. However, her personality is very dry, cold, and flat because she lived her childhood to please my controlling narcissistic mother. She has narcissistic tendencies, shows very little emotion and often talks down to me. For those reasons, it is a sterilizing feeling being around her. I was a rebel, broke free and searched for an identity away from the controlled environment. Consequently, I was often labeled the one who stirred up trouble. It's crazy, but at age 57, I am just now figuring out my dysfunctional family.
Growing up, I was kind of the golden child. It was never satisfying. I always knew that I had that status because I was hiding my true self. When I grew up, I started to speak out, and predictably my status went into free-fall. Andre Gide said "I would rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." I would rather be the pariah, and at least I have my own thoughts. The Golden Child is very much a victim, and more deeply trapped.
@@bridgetdrummond1721 Rejoice! I'm 64, and it has been like my life's work... Some people never find their way out. For me, it was DIY. When we were young there was no one to talk too.
@@fredhubbard7210 I really feel like I understand the phrase, with age comes wisdom. My parents are both deceased, now. It is sad to have them gone but also it is a new sense of freedom to think clearly without having to worry about pleasing anyone.
It’s actually insane to me that so many of us have had literally the exact same experience, and yet somehow a narcissist thinks they’re the smartest, most unique human on planet earth.
😳 Yes! And that, when gender or count of the siblings might be different; or some kids are either gender but the only child. Children may fall anywhere in the hierarchy. Also, they may be raised by both parents or single parent. Parents may or may not be an addict. Parents may be from any religion or region. Despite all of that, we've had similar experiences.
I swear they are taking over, building these family bubbles all over Facebook, projecting the image of health and cohesiveness. It’s like defecting from a communist institution, grateful to have gotten away.
My mother is a textbook narcissist. I went no contact 5 years ago and couldn’t be happier. She doesn’t deserve my love or attention. I feel no love for her.
My family of origin--all of this applies. I'm 60 yo and I still grapple with the fallout. I didn't know there was a name for my experience. Thank you, this was helpful.
what I hated the most about the narc family dynamic was that any time something went wrong or a problem arose, the question was NEVER how can we solve the problem, the question was ALWAYS ,whose fault is this...never solutions to problems just always blame shifting ( to the scapegoat of course) no resolution EVER😵🙄😒
That part! I was the scape goat for over 28 years and I can’t tell you how frustrating it was to be blamed for everything and watch the actual culprit avoid responsibility and accountability. Going NC was the best decision.
LOL I was the scapegoat but I openly hated my nmother. I didn’t follow most of these rules. I realized she was a toddler and I treated her as such. Eventually she lost all emotional power over me and I could see her dying inside. I have been no contact for almost a decade and I am morbidly fascinated to know how horribly she has coped.
I took this family for 52 years! 2 weeks ago i "buried" this family for good. No more! I am trying to heal and survive... it is amazingly hard but enough is enough. No more of this abuse...
SO TRUE. All of it. Submit to the dominant narcissistic member, in my case, the father. And immigration revved him up x10. The family became the only place where my parents felt they had control. Mom was the narcissistic second in command, but in reality, she is a codependent, taking a lot after him. Both felt I had to be the inferior one, to them. I was the only one they could feel superior to, other than everyone else, of course, lol, but i was the only they could make FEEL inferior. They'd always say everyone around us was incompetent shit, but they couldn't make anyone feel that way. Just me. Isn't that something... Then when I did become a doctor, the first thing mom said was, "if you don't treat us with respect, dad will call the Physicians College and they will take your license away. We are your parents; we can do that." Sickening, isn't it.
@@raphaellavictoria01 Raphaella, I am so sorry you worked so hard and they threatened you with that. Not even my parents are that bad. Are you still in contact? I hope I’m not being too forward by asking. I just wonder if now that you’re a doctor you have removed yourself from fear they’d act on the threat, or did you take it for an empty threat?
Lady, I applaud you👏🏽 You becoming a Doctor gives me so much hope for my dreams of becoming a writer! Your pain is excruciating to read such a horrible experience for someone as brilliant as you! I have similar experiences and have been through some extreme stuff like that too, it’s completely heartbreaking. I was told my whole life my vulnerabilities and my feelings and just me in general are what make me weak. I spit on that sentence. I make myself strong because I am strong and I always have been. I’m strong even with being sensitive because my sensitivities are my strengths. My gift. And even though i’m still young (24yo and have a 3yo) I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for the first time ever in my life and I can taste my dreams coming true soon. Bless you Raphaella❤
Ouch. That one about appearances really hit me. That was Mom’s theme song. No adult ever helped us children because we were so well groomed by Mom. If you said ANYthing to a teacher, parent or whoever, she lost it and came at that child with head shots as her goal.
It's quite a revelation to hear all the unspoken rules... spoken out loud. Now I can see the manipulation is real, not imagined. As children we are forced to blindly follow these rules. Sad that so many of us grew up this way. At least now, it doesn't have to continue. Great post Jerry!
Going through this now. No contact on 24/12/22 with narcissist sister. However as she has regular contact with other members who are all dysfunction I have decided to no contact the lot. So far just phone calls and messages. ( flying monkeys) . Ignored all. Going through detox at moment from toxic trauma bond. Determined to heal and not be around these toxic people again.
Go full no contact. No contact of any kind with them or anyone they know. Get away. You can only then make a life for yourself and a family of your choosing. This abuse will never, ever stop.
#7 and #9 are the big ones in my family. My mom’s feelings were the only feelings that mattered. There was not enough room for anyone else to feel anything. And she raged all of the time. The last time I visited was thanksgiving 2018. She was raging as I was zipping up my bags to leave. I should have ordered a car service, as she insisted on driving with my father and I to the airport. We said nothing. I almost vomited in the car. I’m still mad about that.
I lived this. I was never safe at my family. I moved out as soon as I could and I remember that it felt so weird coming to my place and not feeling anxiety and fear. I also remember that the fact that we all have to think as a narcissist went that far that when I was legal age to vote, I had to vote as narcissist.
I would feel most at peace when narc covert mother was asleep or out if the house. I've felt this was for as long as I remember and I knew it wasn't normal to feel that way towards a parent (it's not a teenage phase).
It seems the only way out of this dynamic is self-exile. Do not fall for "discussion" or "negotiation," they don't negotiate--they dictate. That same sociopathic relationship is perpetuated in US society through the presence of the same in nearly all employer relations. They feel justified.
@@Bronte866 I believe many other countries have better laws to protect workers rights. Things like allowing unionizing, paid maternity leave, yada yada yada which all balance the employer/employee relationship. Our laws have allowed employers to be predatory
When the parent who abused me died I felt a tremendous freedom. I also grieved that she and we would never have the loving relationship I had craved for the first 50 years of my life.
It’s crazy how much some of these rules line up with the unspoken rules of religious groups also. As someone who raised in both I remember feeling like the only options were to give in and become part of the system, or be seen as a complete outcast, constantly told how serious a mistake I was making by turning against God (which really meant turning off away from them) and then still be dragged around like a pet to keep up the facade that everything was fine. Went with the latter and it was an awful period of my life, but I left as soon as I could and haven’t looked back.
I believe these videos may be helpful to you - Overcoming the role of the scapegoat: th-cam.com/video/QSKXcv-w658/w-d-xo.html Resisting the role of the scapegoat: th-cam.com/video/docLxL3Z0_U/w-d-xo.html
My mom was a big believer in form over content. She spent so much time rehearsing in the bathroom mirror, primping her makeup, hair for hours- while walking around for hours in her underwear. We were the sideshow to her production. If she put us first it was a huge accomplishment and sacrifice we were to be extremely grateful for. Not a natural part of parenting. When she did finally get dressed she needed our critique of her outfit constantly asking over and over throughout the morning if we liked her choice of blouse or dress. Even if we emphatically told her it was beautiful and she looked beautiful, she still needed repeated praise and reassurance. That’s actually what WE NEEDED as children as people finding our way through life. We needed encouragement, praise and reassurance- not for our outfits as that wasn’t import, but as new human beings on the planet. What a backwards childhood. We were there for HER. Oh, besides we didn’t mind although the clothes critiquing got exhausting. Children are unconditionally loving. We really didn’t understand the Bruhaha over appearance. I’m talking small young children.unfortunately. Society encourages this focus on clothing and beauty as adults. In my young adulthood I actually started believing her view of the world because it seemed the world- outside word, is a narcissist.
My nmom didnt even wear underwear. She was always in night gown since she slept most of her life, watched tv, ate and grew fat. I grew up wondering why she wasn’t like the moms I saw outside and yet was a cult leader at home. Apparently, I was supposed to be thankful for having a biological mother and forget that she kicked me in the belly, pressed my chest with her foot, slapped me and too many more to mention.
Yes people in society can be toxic, but people end up with this way of thinking and being due to toxic and dysfunctional family members. Because if you have a parent or parents with a healthy way of thinking and being, and was taught to have a healthy image of self. You will not receive or accept the toxic views that the outside world try to project onto you. Because you was taught how to love God first and foremost, self, and others properly. Counseling and a healthy relationship with Christ and self can help you overcome that. Blessings to you and yours in Jesus name. Consider looking up videos about a young woman called the ugliest woman in the world. I admired the level of confidence and self love that she displayed.
Omg! is your mom, my mom? She would practice conversations in a nice voice for hours in her underwear . So creepy. As a teen would say “oh you’re not wearing makeup?”. As a young adult I never felt comfortable not wearing 392 lbs of makeup because I was conditioned to think something was wrong with me if I didn’t.
.... and all of it sat in my subconscious for decades never truly understanding real roots of my depressions, and in later years mental breakdown.... Thank you, Jerry Cleaning out old stables
Grew up with all 22 rules in a narcissistic and Factitious disordered family system. First time hearing the terms 'dominate narcissist,' and 'super-self.' These concepts are calling me for the deeper work I need right now. Great video Jerry. Thanks so much.
My mother had me when she really shouldn't have. My stepfather found me inconvenient. Neither one of them can look me in the eyes without shame or guilt, since their divorce. I have found the strength and force to say how I feel and put them aside from what is important and good in my life.
This is my life! Boundary is a bad word in my family. Feelings, emotions, thoughts, opinions are do not matter. To speak the truth to them, is to tell a lie. There's so much; it's exhausting.
You’ve explained my childhood and adult life with my Family. I’m the scapegoat, we haven’t seen each other in 3years… they made me homeless during covid and have never contacted or responded to me since! Except to say they had cancer! lol I said good I’m glad and I hope it hurts, and is long and painful!!
The thing about Rules in this type of family is the rules change constantly to where no one wins. The truth talker will get blamed and scapegoated. Golden child is never wrong. If there are other siblings they they become the flying monkeys/enablers. The taking sides is SO true. I always say our family puts the FUN in dysfunction. Loved the family super self explanation. Makes so much sense. Thank you for your videos.
I have just found your channel and it's as if you're talking about me. I'm full of tears and a deep deep sadness as I'm coming to terms with what I always suspected from my earliest memories but have only recently acknowledged. You've just explained exactly how it is in every way. I'm 61 and this is true validation. Thank you from the bottom of my heart
this is all so scarily true; it's like you were there! my mother was a narc, my father an ice-cold brick wall of a man, I was the scapegoat, my sister the golden child; I was to blame for problems in their marriage and anything else that "was wrong, my father told me "if I have to choose between you and her, I'll choose her" I was ten years old and I believed him
My dad said that to me when I was a teenager and my mum had stormed out the house after an argument with him. I got upset and slammed a plate down which broke. He shoved me against the cooker and screamed it in my face. Now looking back, I realise he was taking his anger out on me but really it had nothing to do with me.
I was the golden child but that was abusive too, I was the cook, the cleaner, I looked after her children. As the eldest I bore the brunt of her rage , always. I knew something was really off with our family, I felt very alone, there was no love or care from siblings, I spent 20 years pouring positive energy into these relationships with not one gesture of care back. But something happened that was the catalyst for all of her covert narc behaviours to come out in one go...... the grouping of the behaviours in a short time frame was massively distressing and the pain of it will likely never be matched by anything else. I switched from golden child to scapegoat in that time. I didnt know what covert narcissism was then so the confusion was agonising. A wise friend told me it was likely covert narcissism and so many pieces fell into place when I started to look into this. She had literally metered out every single covert narc strategy to me over three months then she and my father gaslit me about the abuse and my siblings ignored me. I got the full view ....I have a very toxic family system. I'm out now, but they still contact me at birthdays and I've had to get the police involved because it's so damaging to my mental health. So they will ignore me and invalidate me and psychologically erase me, but will then come back and harass me. Literally THE most toxic forms of communication possible. It's been the most painful experience of my life , but I'm now out of the Truman Show, I now have a much better understanding of the abuse I experienced. I am on a very different path but it's a path of truth now instead of pouring yet more energy into a cess pit of toxicity and hoping for something positive back.
I know the pain and the struggle. Keep up the healing and and connection with yourself. In the upcoming weeks I will be uploading more content regarding the topic- growing out of dysfunctional family dynamics and getting your family of origin out of you. I also have an upcoming workshop on this topic- it can help you tremendously on this journey you are on. I send love, healing and strength your way ❤️
I too was the golden child...oldest...cook/cleaner/babysitter/yard boy/etc. My poor sister was the scapegoat...I tried to get mom to love me...I think sis just did not give a flip. It only took one time ...and when I stood my ground on a moral issue...she no longer cared for me...except when she needed me to do something for her...like put up the x mas tree...or clean out her pantry. Dad was an abusive/womanizing/bipolar alcoholic so no love from that side. Toxic parenting to the max.
There are no words to describe how much this resonates with me. What a genius. In my case, the worst was developing a host of problems caused by being in this incredibly toxic, explosive, uncertain and unsafe home and then being blamed and ridiculed for being "anxious, insecure, sick" etc.....even 30 years later. The epitome of unfairness which still stings today. Sounds like a victim identity to anyone who doesn't know. This man seems to get it. It isn't about having a victim mentality, it's just how it is, growing up in the narcissist family Mr. Wise describes. Finally. To. be. understood, at last. Not mocked, not told to stop having a victim mentality, not blamed for anxiety, depression, performance anxiety, social unease, fear of authority figures, difficulty with conflicts, etc etc etc.
My mother asked me whether or not she was a good mother to me growing up and I'm thinking, wow man, were you not there? Did you forget all the screaming, crying, and fiasco after fiasco? All for man who will, to this day, throw her under the bus to save himself, use her for money and mentally abuse her children. That's what she accepts daily and all her children must suffer along with her. 3 out of 4 children contemplated suicide, but she doesn't know.
I just came home after spending a 1 month helping my narcissistic stepmother out. I was treated very badly by her and her daughters. I will never go back. That family is so toxic I can't stand anyone of them. Was used and abused and will no longer put up with it. Was ordered around like a dog and my step mom would make plans with my stepsister and then would ignore me and just expect me to drive her around and go along with what they wanted to do and where they wanted to go. She treated me like I was invisible. It was appalling. I finally told her off. I wanted to order a pizza and she would flip out and throw a tantrum. I was not allowed to drink her bottle sodas and was expected to buy my own food and drink even though I was there to help her. It was horrendous. I felt like a trapped animal.
...gosh can recognise so many things from my family-background. Can also recognise the trauma and struggle there is in my grown-up life coming from this background! If I should describe my upbringing it would be: tension, fear, smooth out any conflict on the surface, feeling unsafe, explosive rage from certain family members, don't disagree, don't have your own opinions and feelings, show the outside world how perfect the family is to the outside, loyalty to the family members over anything else, never say no to things or requests from family members...and so much more!
Q: is “oh, there’s no talking to you” a typical rationalization for a narcissistic parent to effectively bypass any consequential (meaning real) interaction?
After 30 years they have also become too confident in their dominance and manipulation in my family. Fortunately, because there is so much content on the subject, I now know that this is all not normal and that I do have my own truth and the fear they have instilled in me no longer has the upper hand in me. I have now finally had the courage to throw them out of my life and go no contact. Now when I think about my dad's facial expressions, I feel sick to my stomach. I never wanted to see this, I thought it was normal, but looking at that reality now gives me a nauseous feeling.
I would add to this, "Always have a source of discord going on. Several, one tied directly at a specific member, another that everyone can be mad about together., perhaps more. This is to keep everyone under control and distracted from the real problems."
The parts about the zero sum game, always having to take sides, and always living in fear, really hit home with me. Also, never being allowed to question anything, always having to agree completely with the narcissist parent about everything. I was trained to accept these things as "normal".
My Mother told me I ruined her Christmas because my 7 yr old Son wascin the hospital & I could not attend Christmas dinner. Then yrs later, she excluded me from Thanksgiving because my niece was bringing her new bf & my Sister didn't want any trouble (which I have never done.) As much as that hurt it is what encouraged me to go no contact & become my own best friend! 😊
So, so spot on that I had to send it to my sister. You described our childhood without knowing we exist. Just...gobsmacking in how accurate. One that hit so hard was that with unreliable parents, one might be emotionally wanting to care and provide properly, but they're under submission, so in truth, you can't rely on them. I know my poor mother knew she fell short at that line of submission, and that she felt terrible guilt and shame over it, but was unable to overcome it. Smh. I am so sad that this was our reality.
Wow. I just found you, and this material is just excellent. 100% correct. Aggressive narc pop, passive aggressive mother, raised in the unstable, neurotic world of a transient military family, we had no escape. Ugly stories all. This is so validating. Thank you.
So unbelievably accurate. I'm facing siblings that truly want my emotional destruction. After the death of my mother, they turned on me fully, ganged up on me last year, a long time coming. I even could see with distinction triangulation with certain extended family members who didn't want to go with the head narcissist fully at first. More lies, gossip and slander was served & an even more severe manipulation of the lesser narcs was needed to finish the deed of fully isolating me. I watched this all unfold as they intentionally inflicted emotional harm. Luckily and hilariously because I'm stronger than all of them put together, I am still standing better than ever. I have also taken many psychological acting classes where they trained us to see the subtext in human behavior which has been very helpful to me. They don't know it, but they can "feel" how I see right through them, they are terrified as I know they are all heavily masked. I truly believe in a concerted effort with the head narc they were actually trying to cause my emotional breakdown, to the point one weaker narc kept calling me, feeling guilty I suspect after the brutal discarding or a spy. Not really sure but do know she kept calling and kept asking if I was okay in voicemails. I never answered her. And I have since been no contact with all of them two siblings and 2 in-laws and all of their children. Now they are all having karmic tragedies in their life, I won't get into details but it's pretty biblical in some cases. It is unfortunately it's very sad. Meanwhile I'm free healthy happy, lost a ton of weight, got a huge raise & bonus at my job. just took classes again & being creative, I have more friends than ever feeling better thanks to a support group for adult children of Alcoholics. I believe a lot of narcissism and toxicity stems from the disease of alcoholism. Thanks ever so much to you for this video!
Married into this cult and counting the months until my kid is legal, he safely moves out on his own to college, and I am finally free from having to run interference for all the sickness he has had to observe both passively, and at times actively, from his father and his father’s “keepers” (my Medusa MIL at the puppeteering helm). Constantly making sure to keep him out of the middle of crazy-town. So, damn, exhausted!
You sound like a good person. I never wanted kids. I've worried about nieces and nephews but its outta my hands and I think theyll be alright. Always knew something was off and then to listen to vids like this after the fact. Holy crap! What a horrific cycle
@@boxelder9147 CULTS DO EXIST, and you will find them under the guise of 2 things: feigned religious observance and someone else’s hard-earned money. Bottom line: there is NO FIXING THESE SICKOS. You just gotta get outta hell as quickly as timing will allow. 🙏🏼
I was lucky enough to get my kids away from my Medusa! She is so sick and twisted, she got 1 our kids to hate us and move with her. We cut off all communication after that happened. All Medusa family is her little puppets. She just sits back and watches the madness happen between the family. Called her out several time and she instantly went to victim mode. Poor her and why would I do this to her. Haha 😂
Wow Jerry, this just rattled a few bars of the cage. Thank you very much! You are the 2nd wise Jerry in my life & I am so grateful for the work you do and share. So much Love.
Your description of the "super self" was exactly what I needed to hear right now. I come from a narcissistic family, and the golden child (my sister) is getting married and I am voluntarily not going to the wedding. You can only imagine the shit show that will come of this. It's been emotionally challenging, but this "super self" description seriously gave me so much insight. Thank you so much for this video, I can't begin to describe how much I needed to hear these things right now.
No discussions. No opinions. Totally ignore the parent ( Scapegoat ) you are told to, by the leader. Be obedient to the lead parent. Do not ask for anything. Do not have anger. Do not have or bring friends into the home. These were some of ours.
I think my grandma was narcissistic, and my grandpa possibly codependent. Plus, he worked a lot, so my grandma was the disciplinarian or what have you. The thing I got is that even if what she said was wrong, my grandpa went along with it. And I see in my mom and her sister's that they tend to be narcissistic, angry, and bitter towards men. They talk behind each other's back and create unnecessary drama. Some of them are mid to late 60's. The only thing I say is seek counseling and get help. Don't go to your grave with this mindset and way of being.
Reading through the comments, it seems we all grew up in the same family. Everyone here has the courage to seek help, get better, and escape that no-win game. I’m proud of all of us.
Finally get your family OUT OF YOU & be the true self you were never allowed to be 👇
Access my free training - jerrywise.ewebinar.com/webinar/free-training-10027
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Don’t complain
Don’t explain
Go no contact
Don’t play their game.
Don’t defend, don’t engage, don’t explain, don’t personalize!
@@maggiemay8622yeah bc if you try to defend or explain or point out their wrong doing, the narcissist denies it, gaslights and then seeks revenge and gossips about you. My mother. I went no contact w her.
Totally agree. I did that and it changed the remaining dynamic. Best thing I ever did.
@@gracecase998
Part of my ego sometimes wants to reactivate those old toxic relationships. It makes me realise how deep these beliefs or phoney love is within me ( from birth)
I always ask this question at these times.
Does my true authentic self want to be in a relationship with this person, family or group?
Will rekindling this relationship bring me peace?
The answer is always no !
@@alanfrancis9225 such a true statement. I have questioned that so much in my life. You wonder did you do the right thing or is that my trauma trying to protect me. Thanks.
I've been suicidal, stuck in this family dynamic. I went no contact, not responding to calls, emails, or text messages. It has been the best thing for me. I'm in counseling and learning that it'ss possible to live without fear or anxiety.
Councillor was great to validate my hurt I was always told by my family I was over reacting or too sensitive. I so glad to have that final breakdown to build a whole new life agai for me and my Son . Your never alone in these things 😘
Well done
Don’t complain
Don’t explain
Go no contact
Don’t play the game
I’m sorry. Feeling suicidal is so stigmatizing and isolating. I hope you are reaching out.
I know in these families means they will not support you.
Reaching into the wrong love pot when you’re feeling that way is not a rejection you need.
We are here. ❤️
I understand.
✨️I too understand. Truly. You posted this a year ago. I am sending my best wishes that time has brought you even more healing and hope. No contact saved my sanity. I cringe 😖 when I think of what my father must think of me for it and I occasionally grieve that I may not know when or how he dies or anything else about his life 😔, but I wouldn't change my decision for anything. I had suffered as much abuse 🎯as I could stand and I am not willing to participate in one more moment from his cruel mouth. I have learned how to love myself 💖 and I finally no longer hear him in my head telling me how disappointing I am ❤️🩹 or shaming me for coming to him longing to be loved when I so clearly didn't warrant it 💔. Yeah, I'm good with some occasional grief about not knowing... I really am proud that I found the courage 💪🏻 to choose myself when I'd been brainwashed 🧠🧼 to do the opposite. Wow, I didn't know I had all this in me to say. Thank you for posting - I needed the inspiration! 💫
I think I’m finally getting it. The dynamic WON’T change. The situation is beyond repair. I can’t fix it. It’s not my job to fix it. I know my truth.
It’s difficult when you and your sibling never grew up together since birth and when you finally go be with your extended family after just getting out of a difficult life with a toxic father and being homeless with him, only to be met with some sort of rejection from having just the same family home life as your sibling all because they raised him or her and not you… 😔
💯
I could dominate this whole message board, so could all of us, so I will stop. For sure I'm signing up in January. Do me a world of good. A bit late..but better late than never. Confirms so much
The pain on Jerry's face, always present when he talks about Narcisstic abuse, .just serves to underscore his sincerity. Does anyone else notice this,.+ feel the same? 😢
Same here
‘My house, my rules’… always, no matter what house you’re in
Growing up, My dad tried to exert control over EVERYTHING I liked or did. He had an issue with the tv shows I watched, the clothes I wore, how I styled my hair. I thought once I grew up got my own place and paid my own bills he’d stop trying to control me and my life. Wrong! I’m 36, and he STILL thinks he’s entitled to dictate to me what I should and shouldn’t be doing in my own damn house! It’s unreal.
Yeah exactly, even when they are in your freakin' house hahaha (laughing at the absurdity helps me to not get frustrated and angry)
“. . . no matter what house you’re in. . .” That’s so true. Your insight is spot on.
That is dominated behaviour, like an animals are territorial
I live next to a turnpike, I got off the next exit, away from him(emotionally, physically, and in other ways) since his way is the highway. I am protecting myself. An analogy.
NO CONTACT is the only way to save yourself from these horrid people
Absolutely! And they are nothing short of HORRID.
Yes, i wish i could drop off the face of the earth coz no longer existing is the only way I'll be rid of them
Yup
True , and the person who removed themselves into a safer environment will be absolutely vilified in absence
@@Angus1966 yup
“Stop being so sensitive!!!” When you’re vulnerable
Read a book called “the highly sensitive person” by Elaine Aron PhD
Gosh, I heard that so many times.
In other words, "don't have any reaction that makes me look bad or feel guilty when I inflict pain upon you." So, in reality, who is actually hypersensitive? They are because they can't handle anyone expressing any type of emotion towards them that they would have to deal with, respond to it even process in any way. Too much work for their weak ego/self.
It is a sick game when narcissistic parents divide their children/family! No one is ok or safe!
💔
It takes away sibling relationships that are much harder to reestablish as adults. It's amazing what someone can just brush off as normal because it's how they were raised. It takes years away from the craziness to start recognizing how messed up a lot of things really are that they always accepted as normal.
Yep. My narcisstic mother divided her parents/siblings, my dads family, her second husbands family and my siblings and me. The only thing this woman did in her life is destroying families and people.
What is really the goal for division?
@@rakelpeneyambeko to conquer.
Our family Rule 1: Bob, my malignant narcissist older brother can do or say whatever he wants.
Rule 2: if Bob hurts you, he didn't actually hurt you - you're just overreacting or making it up..
Rule 3. If you are actually hurt, it isn't that bad.
Rule 4. If it's really bad, he didn't mean to, so you need to let it go, stop bringing it up.
Rule 5. What was your part in this? Why are you so judgmental?
Same here! I have a golden child brother, these narcissist all singing off the same sheet of music
Is that narcissism or just favoritism?
@@3mparchangel357 My mother saw, heard and knew of Bob's physical, sexual and emotional abuse of me from the time I was born until I was 13 and he joined the military, which gave me a 3-year break at home. You can call her looking the other way, dismissing it as though it didn't happen, telling me it wasn't as bad as I said or was probably partially my fault, etc. whatever you need to call it.
This is so funny 🤣 😆 😄 this is the most accurate example of what my family acts like...
.I got the brunt of it cuz I was chosen to be the scapegoat-blamed for everything and I'm now just trying to get myself out of this demonic web by going no contact.....
but of course my sister, who has always been the golden child is contacting me repeatedly through the flying monkeys to come back to my original role because she needs someone to project all the misery on.....
.took me my entire lifetime to figure out what was really happening in this family-with constant accusations and bully treatment-now I know I'll never go back!!!
YES YES Yessssssssss. Literally my mom to me forever and my dad too
Once you leave that narcissistic, dysfunctional family NEVER GO BACK. It’s easy to believe that over time, people change. BUT REMEMBER, you changed and they never will. It’s easy to miss your family in your imagination. Over time, you’ll start endowing them with magical properties, turning them into the loving, kind, and supportive family you always dreamed of. But it’s a lie. They are still destructive. DO NOT GO BACK.
There's only one person you have control of - yourself.
Yes it's true.
Yeah.... I've made notes on this.
It's for the times when I miss them badly due to residual trauma-bond.
They change over time! But to the worse!!!
Well put & important to remember. Thanks!
I would add one more rule - you are used as a tool, an aid, your time is not respected, your space is not respected, your needs, abilities, interests are not respected. (This could include possible sexual abuse).
Yes, you may be about to go out on a date, or on an outing with a group of friends, which you planned well in advance and told your parents about, when suddenly some crisis comes up and then you can't go.
Or your room may be used as a dumping ground for other people's stuff, or other people (both parents and siblings) might go through your belongings. My next older sister would sometimes raid my piggy bank, when we were sharing a room and she had run out of money and wanted to go out and spend some money with her friends. And she also used to share my diary with one of her friends. She would purposely find the most embarrassing parts and have her friend read them out loud, on Saturday mornings when I was trying to sleep in after a tough week. And I was told that I was supposed to accept this as "normal" behavior, that all sisters did this to each other.
It's an ongoing vicious cycle of I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
my mother used to literally say "damned if i do, damned if i don't" all the time right in front of me as a child as she was going through her own frustrations.... sheeeesh
The double bind
I thought 60 years ago I had coined that phrase. 😂❤
You just described the family I grew up in 100% accurately. Thank you. Things like this help remind me that I was not crazy, and that I am a worthwhile human being.
Yes exactly 💯 these videos on narcissism let's me see 👀 and know that I wasn't crazy and that what I had experienced was even worse than what I had thought- cuz I didn't know it was called abuse -psychological abuse is one of the worst form of abuse anyone can experience because it takes a long time to figure out what is happening to you
Yep, me too!
Same!
Yes,narcissist family system makes me depressed and think i'm cracy too.
@@hoppiw5735 Great comment. I thought I was the only one.
My mouth gasped open as Jerry went down the list. Jerry nailed every unspoken rule exactly how they happen. 😮
I've been disowned because I dared to finally grow a backbone in my 50's and stand up to the whole family and their abuse. My mother is the covert narc and my father has been a preacher my entire life. Everything was about appearances. Nothing was genuine. When I found out my nephew was molesting my daughter, I blew a gasket and called the cops. Long story short, they all think my daughter is lying because my brother is the golden child and thus his kids are the golden grandchildren. And because they all go to church, they would never do such things. I beg to differ with them! This list is probably one of the most accurate I have heard that fits my own personal experience. I will be listening to more of your videos. Thank you!
Good heavens! our stories have so many similarities! I spoke up for an abused child who came to me begging for help. I believed her and advocated for her and the shit hit the fan. I became the evil enemy when i refused to step in line and follow marching orders.
God bless you guys for helping those kids!
@@xenia6761Yes.❤️
HORRIBLE ! So sorry ....
I am with you on it, sister, have been in church most of my life, seen it all, and molestation by the church boys - godly cousins too. It ruined the girls' confidence in adulthood.
Cults aren’t just of the Jim Jones kind. Family cults can be just as devastating
I joined what turned out to be an evangelical cult when I was 19. The thing that kept me their for 5-6 years was that the demands made of me, & my ex’s constant criticism, seemed pretty normal after my upbringing.
Somehow i have the feeling that most of those Jim Jones cult members were running from their own narcissistic family. I'm sure lots of them were "black sheep/scapegoats" of their family and they craved to be accepted by others outside not realizing they were running into the arm of an even bigger predator. Poor souls they kept repeating the same toxic cycle. It was a terrible event. My heart goes out to all of them. 😢
@ that is one of the most brilliant observations on the subject I have ever heard. I grew up in a family cult and became super religious, ending up in Christian churches (that I helped start, for free!) and eventually had to leave because they became cults. Took me a couple of painful experiences before I learned. I’m 62 and hadn’t thought that ending up in those ‘cults’ was a result of running from my family of origin. Thank you ❤️🔥
@ Mr Wise is spot on. You have to get your family out of you before you do anything else
Because some members of society back the abuser, not the victim; it is devastating. I am done with Dad's abuse of me, which he said he did(still does) because "you are nice and polite", his excuse for the abuse. I was 26 then. I am 61 now, I don't live with him, thankfully. I don't bother with him.
BOOM!!!🧨🧨🧨 All 22 🎯.
I'm 56. I "escaped" my narcissist family at age 53, with some excellent therapy and divine grace. Finally learned self-love and inner- peace. It's never too late to free yourself from toxicity.🙂
17:06 interesting, I’m 69, have lived in the dysfunction as the scapegoat/depository of all bad feelings all these years…
Then something occurred two years ago… And I started to see through the veil…
I went Black rock and worked on myself for two years, and my family now rages, and their crazy behavior is sticking out all over the place, and I just flit away like a butterfly and the anger, the anxiety, the fear, the hyper vigilance has dissolved into calm & quiet!:
It’s the most amazing transformation, I almost feel like Paul on the road to Damascus…
@@eleanorwittering3126 🙂🩷
🎉
Doing the same thing at 52
Great list! I'd add 23: If nothing bad happens, something bad must be invented. 24. Loyalty to the lie is paramount; any perceived disloyalty (even in thought!) will be punished.
Yup, aswell as 25. the golden child gets anything they want, they can drink multiple cartons of milk every day and eat as much bacon as they like, but the scapegoat doesnt even get fed properly, gets sent away from dinner, gets yelled at for breakfast, health issues and abuse from outside the family and constant stomach aches throughout childhood and being underweight, cold, sad, and hungry is completly ignored. One time asking for anything other then bread, since she was obviously allergic but no one cared, resulted in violent punishment for the audacity to ask for such a luxury, anything other then bread, how could she be such a spoiled brat, does she thinks we are made of money, be ashamed! (brother munches on an abundance of milk and bacon, sister not even allowed to have a bit becasue "growing boys need more food".... I got to buy a cup-of-soup once, but didnt like it, which ofcourse resulted in loads of screaming and cursing and violence and shaming.....
So still today as an adult I have a very hard time allowing myself to eat. My stomach acts like it dont know what to do with food, still.
@@audhumbla6927 so sorry u went through this 💔
Yes, rule 23 is certainly a fact of life in these circumstances 😏
@@audhumbla6927 Yep, I know….
@@audhumbla6927 när jag var barn så köpte min mamma kokt skinka som smörgåspålägg åt min syster( eftersom hon åt så dåligt). Jag fick inte ta av den kokta skinkan. Till saken hör att min far var vd med så god lön att vi hade två bilar (pappa körde Mercedes), sommarstuga, mamma kunde fundera på vilket skomärke hon föredrog (Ferragamo eller Bally ), men jag fick inte äta samma mat som min syster….
I ran off into the military to escape my family. Eventually I went "no contact" by the advice of counseling. I totally retrained my mind by about 40 years old. Relapsed some with PTSD, got back mentally with the help of some wonderful people "vets" at about 50. It's difficult to shake it when you are raised to be just like them.
❤️🫂
I hear ya. Glenn Beck said he's going through it too and he thinks it's a lifelong project and I think he might be right. Keep hanging in there. I'm the scapegoat too.
@@websurfer5772 Great point. Is that an interview you are referring to? It seems like a life's work, to overcome.I am determined even if I die while trying, Lol.
@@brendaplunkett8659 I was listening to some videos of Glenn's on YT awhile back and he kept bringing this topic up because he's dealing with his own grief over his upbringing. I guess he just brings it up in videos about other topics because it's always on his mind or in the back of his mind, and then anything can trigger it - as we all know.
I was surprised because it was odd coming from a former TV personality like his, but I'm glad he's broaching it and sharing his feelings about it with us.
Just like you, I want to overcome it too, but I'm afraid he might be right, at least for me.
Same here, joined the combat engineers right after 9-11, regret coming back seeing all the loss and continued abuse from there, I wish I could get my mom and brother some of the help I had. I always wanted to talk to veterans, as a kid they were my hero’s still and are as brothers. I didn’t even know what a drill Sargent was, much less anything else.
I'm the scapegoat and was discarded (thank God), my sister is just syphoning the lies from my dad and is trying to further the manipulation of my hellish experience. I was a mental prisoner in my own home, and punished for having independent thought.
Read Atlas Shrugged.
It will have a profound impact on Your situation. (Due to a certain characters situation).
My dad doesn't see me as an individual with rights to say no. His problem attitude: I stick with myself; it irritates him: good!
My father has said to me, word for word, “if you want to be accepted, you have to do things that are acceptable” the reality is glaring.
My father told me, “I don’t believe we hurt you, I just think you have a problem listening to authority.”
Context. I was pregnant and taking too long to move a box so my grandmother yelled at me and when I told my dad she hurt my feelings he told me that I’m not hurt and I just need to learn to listen.
There is no way he doesn’t know what he said was wrong. Like there is a zero percent chance he is unaware he was full of sh*.
and they keep changing the definition of acceptable... you can never make them happy and will die trying, in the meantime... Have a great cup of coffee and laugh with the people who like you!
@@ericaholloway1751 I can hear my stepmother doing the same thing and my father ignoring me even if I was pregnant... WHAT IDIOTS!
Acceptable to only him?!! He's a tyrant! So is mine!
@@marybusch6182wow!
That's the main point.
They'll change the goals mid-way or the moment you've somehow completed it, they'll have another one ready beforehand.
The only thing they want is to NOT let the person have _autonomy._
I had to go no contact to get away from the constant abuse. It doesn't matter how old you get, this narcissistic family system will never change. There's another narcissists who will continue the nightmare. Normally the golden child carries the dysfunction to the next generation.
Yes it is weird. My mother died five years ago, and I thought I was free, but my siblings closed ranks around the "super family" even though they don't speak to each other.
I was hoping we could finally speak to each other as individuals, but that ain't gonna happen.
@@fredhubbard7210 Yeah, I had the same sort of thing with my older brother. My father was the main narcissist and he was the golden child.
I thought may be we could get along but that's not gonna happen. He's just getting worse as he gets older. I've realized that's never gonna change.
Yes. My mother was the golden child and abuses everyone (her siblings, my dad, me). My sister is the golden child and also she abuses me (I’m the scapegoat). Now my sister has two small children and I feel so sorry for them. I’m convinced she will abuse her children and one of them will become the golden child and the other one the scapegoat.
I was actually also hoping that when my evil, abusive, narcissist mother will pass away, that I will be free. But with my narcissist siblings who also abuse me, I guess I won’t be free when my mother passes away. 😳
Unfortunately , that is very true , the scapegoat misses out on having a family of origin
In case someone wants to read over the rules again after watching the video:
1 Seeing acceptance [of yourself] as conditional
2 Submission [to narcissist] is required
3 Someone must be blamed for [family] problems
4 Vulnerability is dangerous
5 You must take sides (the narcissists)
6 There's never enough love and respect to go around [in the family]. These ressources are limited for everyone but the narcissist/golden child. Respect and love for one person means disrespect and no love for another.
7 Feelings are wrong for everyone but the narcissist. They are the only ones allowed to have emotional expression and be allowed to state needs.
8 One-up-manship, favoritism, constant comparisons.
9 Appearances are more important than substance (
10 Rage [of the narcissist] is normalized
11 Denial [of the narcissists abuse, mistreatmen and neglict] is rampant
12 There is no safety
13 No one can be or should be okay.
14 Fear must always be present. Anxiety must guide everyone.
15 Always avoid, never resolve. Keep your head down, stay under the radar. You can't resolve anything so you must avoid.
16 Always be angry OR appeasing. Usually flip-flop between the two. As you are not allowed to be angry you must suppress it, though.
17 Differentiation or confidence in anyone other than the narcissists must be punished or shamed or rejected. Difference between narcissist and yourself can not be tolerated.
18 Never count on parental support.
19 Always enmesh, boundaries are not permissible.
20 You must always be borrowing or loaning a self, never have a self. We must fill up other peoples' buckets, not our own.
21 Systems feelings always trump true feelings. Systems feelings are guilt, shame, fear of abandonment, fear of rejection, fear of sadness, fear of hurt. True feelings are rejection, hurt, sadness, abandonment, fear.
22 The narcissistic familys super-self must be shared and borrowed from for as long as the narcissist lives. Your self must be the family-self. Don't disagree from your own self.
Thankyou 🙏
Thank you!
Thank you 🙏
PERIOD. ALL OF EMMMM ALL OF EM I RELATE
I'd like to point out that he uses the phrase "dominant narcissist"
I grew up thinking I'm a loser and I'm ugly, unwanted and should die. I couldn't walk straight, developed eating disorders, my confidence was in minus, i wouldn't even speak a word in class. It went way worse from there. I was at a constant risk and lost my head. It struck me at the age of 28 through a psychologist that my mother and my sister are narcissists and that it's time for me to move out. 4 years out and it still haunts me. I'm unable to get out of the trauma. I wish the suffering ends.
I am so sorry this is your story Neharika, I hope my videos can bring you relief and inner peace
‘It is about them, not you” were some of the first words of this video - use this like a mantra! You deserved better.
Stay strong 💪🏻 my mother and daughter are narc 💪🏻keep your distance ❤
🙏🏼🫂
Idem!
There is no bigger gaslight than conditional love
@@InsanitysApex i used to agree with this sentiment. i no longer do. the unconditional part is the concept of grace and mercy, and many people do practice this form of relating to others, especially in the context of being imperfect of making a mistake.
I would be really interested in a video discussing why narcissistic parents have an issue with confidence in their children and try to get rid of it.
@Lynn-nx6ue unfortunately they are very insecure and you being confident makes them remember that. Makes them look bad and some how… you being okay is a very a front to their very low self esteem. You can’t fill a bucket with a hole in it and it’s not your job to patch it. 💕
Plus it's much harder to control and manipulate someone who believes in themselves.
if /when they gain confidence they may no longer quietly accept the status quo; we are easier to control when we are afraid of them is my guess
With my N mom I see it as maybe she feels it as a rejection. My N mom gets really frustrated when my brother and I use vocabulary she doesn't know . Her vocabulary is very limited because she didn't get through school as a child and didn't bother gaining an education as she became an adult. She yells " stop using those 10 dollar words"! She actually brags on herself for not "wasting her life in school and gaining student debt" !She feels she's done just fine without all that "Hoopla" ! She thinks everyone is just trying to "look like something they're not by going to college" it's humiliating when she says these things in public 😖
It's about control, the more you resist the more offended they get....
I never saw my parents as narcissistic, but I’m amazed how much of this applied to my upbringing.
Same here. Maybe narcissistic traits.
Same. That may be because they had narcissistic traits, but it wouldn't be enough to be diagnosed with a disorder. It's interesting because I have no idea how my dad got like that. My grandma, aunts and uncle have always been kind people (and they married good people, too). My mom had a bad relationship with her mother who may have been an actual narcissist, and my mom was the scapegoat. She didn't like to talk about her childhood so I'm not sure what all happened, but I guess she picked up some of those traits through trauma and a desire for acknowledgement and love from her mother. I used to think my mother lashed out at me because she had chronic pain. But after watching some videos today, I have to admit that pain is no excuse for my mother's behavior. I would never even think of treating a child or teenager the way I was treated. It's sad that no one noticed how much I was struggling, maybe because I was quiet and got decent grades (but not good enough, because a C in calculus is unacceptable, I guess). Meanwhile my sister always had help with her homework from my mom, got her license as a teenager and started taking college courses in high school, had nice teeth because of braces, etc.
I cannot put everything I lived down in a single comment. I can't believe I survived all that.
The message that my mother gave me repeatedly was that my thoughts, wants or feelings didn't count.
Same here. I didn't know it was wrong until now.
You described my family perfectly. I am a 58 year old woman who grew up in a narcissistic home. I have 6 siblings in which most suffer from mental health disorders. My mother was a narsaccist as well as at least 3 siblings, all undiagnosed. My dad was very compassionate and supportive quite a bit of the time, but he had to live under the rule of my narcissistic mother and was a workaholic farmer who was not often home during the day. As a child and teenager, there was no safe haven within my family. There was narcissistic abuse in every direction. In my attempt to find love and acceptance, I married an abusive man, at age 22, which I divorced 3 years later. After many years of being single and trying to self heal, at the age of 40, I married a wonderful man. After having to deal with all of my siblings and settling a family trust, the extent of the dysfunction and abuse came to light. Thanks to good friends, a few close trustful relatives, and self help videos like yours I am able to help myself and understand this craziness.
This sounds challenging to deal with, I'm glad my videos give you clarity and help you. Sending love and strength your way 🤍
Are we related? Just kidding.
Are we related? Just kidding.
My childhood was very very traumatic because of my abusive mother and aunt...
I grew up very confused and empty...
The scapegoats I've meet have the best insight as to what is going on. All this counterdependent activity. Pit the children against each other. Appearance over substance. Gossip is normalized.
In my experience, the one who knows what is going on becomes the scapegoat. That person is very dangerous to the whole system.
I was the scape goat. My bigoted father tried to destroy me for knowing what he was (a fat, lazy wannabe). He pit my mom and 3 weak siblings on me.
@@fredhubbard7210 I'm the scapegoat/ invisible child (depending on the season) and until now I'm the only one who accepts my mother is a covert narcissistic. It took me months of research and observing her until I could actually accept it. I don't even bother with telling my siblings because they won't believe me. It's almost impossible to unmask a covert especially that her abuse is behind doors and often other siblings are not around to witness it. It's true, the scapegoat knows the most because their pain is the most real.
Yes, they become so afraid of what we might "tell" about them that we get slandered, belittled, nothing is good enough, etc. and the funny thing is that since we don't think like they do, we would NEVER TELL other people. We find the family drama embarrassing. So, we live with knowing that other people believe all sorts of things about us that simply aren't true. I like to jokingly say that I've been slandered into an identity crisis. But then sense of humor isn't a trait they possess so they don't get my jokes anyway. :-)
@@laurajane4806 totally. They tell me all this nasty shit about themselves and I’m expected to shoulder their pain. My mother tells me that her brother used her as a “practice girl” and that my dad hits and verbally abused her. My sister told me that she enjoys telling her husband about her previous boyfriends and how great they were (I was appalled at this; this hurts so bad as a guy). And this is just with my family. For some reason I’m a lightning rod for peoples bullshit and I am routinely abused in the workplace. You are right, if they just told me this stuff I would just feel bad for them and would leave it at that. But, I think they think that I would be as shitty as them and blab about it that they start smearing me and accusing me of stuff that I never did or said. It’s so frustrating because I try to live my life with integrity. Makes me want to become a hermit, at least then I could just sit and read without thinking about how shitty everyone is.
"What you feel , you don't feel, What you think , you don't think , What you want , you don't want ."
They will never understand. It becomes "your problem'
I was the scapegoat in my family of two other Golden Children Brother and Sister.
I wish i was adopted because i would of got a better chance to have a chance at having a normal brother or sister relationship.
I stepped away from the family for 5 years and did so much counselling and healing and was doing great. Limited my time seeing them along with my Narc parent.
My Narc parent passed and was sad to see that and thought i could go back and now let my GC brother and sister to heal and finally be themselves.
Worst mistake i ever made and my brother took over the role my Narc parent had, nearly cost me my physical health.
I firmly blame my Narc parent for dividing everyone from a young age.
Wish i had of stayed away period .
If your a scapegoat you will never fix years of conditoning
Thanks for sharing, after my narc father died I thought as you did, but the situation it's even worst: my narc mother feels empowered and spell hate, grudge and envy out of her mouth more than ever, my narc siblings are taking the role of my nar father, it seems like a demon or many of them jumping on people, I am determinated to go no contact. M
Same
My older brother physically abused me and when I went to my mom crying and telling her what he did she said "I don't want to hear about it" . She didnt want to be 'inconvenienced'.
That is emotional neglect and abuse at it's finest.
My mother always watched my brother beat up my sister and me, smiling. She was smiling and never told my brother anything like “stop it” or “why are you beating up your sister/s”.
Same here. My mother shouted at me "GET OVER IT!" She made so many excuses for my brother. Not a shred of empathy for me.
Narcissists are not capable of solving problems instead and for the most part, they create them.
Disgusting couldn’t imagine allowing that to happen to a child I wish you strength and love to heal from the past 🙏🏾
When I was a 14 year old girl my narc father threatened me with beating with a belt unless I posed nude for him so he could sit there and drink his wine and stare and make lewd comments. I told my mother what he did. She just said, “He didn’t do that.” Well yes, Mom, he did.
So to deal with this horrid upbringing I joined some friends from high school at their youth group at church, which I found really helpful. But at home? I was absolutely the instant and absolute scapegoat. How dare I identify with something besides our screwed up family!
You’re spot on here.
I’m really sorry
❤
I never realised what was wrong with my family, I just knew it felt better when I was with another family, at a different house ❤
In the animal kingdom, when a penguin is hurt the others lift it up until it's healthy.
would be nice if humans did that for each other. i feel like many people are predatory in how they behave towards others.
Which I was a penguin
I so want to be a penguin right now. 😂 . Jokes apart, healing is a journey with ups and downs, and every second spent healing is WORTH IT. 🔥
Here it is in a nutshell. This was EXCELLENT!!!
It has taken me 60 years and many therapists, none of which suggested the possibility of narcissistic family system, to unravel this painful misery. Once I began learning about Narcissim I suggested the possibility to the last three psychologists I saw…all three, including one old hag and one Phd student at university totally dismissed me/my idea. I spent a good chunk of my life going to Psychologist and asking “what was wrong with me“. They all went along with me never questioning the family system. To say I have no faith in psychiatric community…and don’t get me started on the DSM and fraudulent psychiatric community. 😢
I don't trust that community either. I've had some bad experiences. I've learned about narcissistic abuse from books.
It's best to either go to a trauma-informed therapist or just learn online
99% of therapists do harm not good.
I found most shrinks will not deal with child abuse which is a fraud
Servitude to shrinks!
I was a school psychologist for 28 years. I saw the ineffectiveness of therapy with the kids and families I worked with. Therapists, for the most part, hate their jobs, and don’t care for their clients, over medicate, and have no skin in the game. Additionally, I’m the scapegoat of a narcissistic family, and then married a narcissist, so went to several therapists. They were all worthless. I went no contact two years ago, and still ruminate. I don’t see much healing in my future. Healing ❤️🩹 is so slow!
This reminds me of a conversation I had with my sister (our father’s golden child) after I disclosed to her his sexual abuse and told her I had been in counseling for the past couple years and decided that I needed so time of no contact with our parents while I dealt with my feelings. She said that I needed to find a good Christian counselor because obviously regular therapy wasn’t working for me if I wanted to cut contact with our parents, even temporarily. I was so hurt at the time but now I understand that her self image hinges on the perfect image of our family. The golden child is a victim of the narcissist as well.
I grew up in a narcissistic home also. My sister was the golden girl. However, her personality is very dry, cold, and flat because she lived her childhood to please my controlling narcissistic mother. She has narcissistic tendencies, shows very little emotion and often talks down to me. For those reasons, it is a sterilizing feeling being around her. I was a rebel, broke free and searched for an identity away from the controlled environment. Consequently, I was often labeled the one who stirred up trouble. It's crazy, but at age 57, I am just now figuring out my dysfunctional family.
Growing up, I was kind of the golden child. It was never satisfying. I always knew that I had that status because I was hiding my true self. When I grew up, I started to speak out, and predictably my status went into free-fall.
Andre Gide said "I would rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." I would rather be the pariah, and at least I have my own thoughts. The Golden Child is very much a victim, and more deeply trapped.
@@fredhubbard7210 I took the hated for what I am status, because I refused to be my narcissistic mother's flying monkey.
@@bridgetdrummond1721 Rejoice! I'm 64, and it has been like my life's work... Some people never find their way out. For me, it was DIY. When we were young there was no one to talk too.
@@fredhubbard7210 I really feel like I understand the phrase, with age comes wisdom. My parents are both deceased, now. It is sad to have them gone but also it is a new sense of freedom to think clearly without having to worry about pleasing anyone.
It’s actually insane to me that so many of us have had literally the exact same experience, and yet somehow a narcissist thinks they’re the smartest, most unique human on planet earth.
Abuse no doubt about it.
Haha…..good point
😳 Yes!
And that, when gender or count of the siblings might be different; or some kids are either gender but the only child.
Children may fall anywhere in the hierarchy.
Also, they may be raised by both parents or single parent.
Parents may or may not be an addict.
Parents may be from any religion or region.
Despite all of that, we've had similar experiences.
I swear they are taking over, building these family bubbles all over Facebook, projecting the image of health and cohesiveness.
It’s like defecting from a communist institution, grateful to have gotten away.
My mother is a textbook narcissist. I went no contact 5 years ago and couldn’t be happier. She doesn’t deserve my love or attention. I feel no love for her.
My family of origin--all of this applies. I'm 60 yo and I still grapple with the fallout. I didn't know there was a name for my experience. Thank you, this was helpful.
Fear and anxiety has been my constant companion for my life. He is so right on. Anger/appeasement😢
This is so healing! I am in my 50's and I am just realizing what my problem was. . .every point made here so true. . .
what I hated the most about the narc family dynamic was that any time something went wrong or a problem arose, the question was NEVER how can we solve the problem, the question was ALWAYS ,whose fault is this...never solutions to problems just always blame shifting ( to the scapegoat of course) no resolution EVER😵🙄😒
That part! I was the scape goat for over 28 years and I can’t tell you how frustrating it was to be blamed for everything and watch the actual culprit avoid responsibility and accountability. Going NC was the best decision.
LOL I was the scapegoat but I openly hated my nmother. I didn’t follow most of these rules. I realized she was a toddler and I treated her as such. Eventually she lost all emotional power over me and I could see her dying inside. I have been no contact for almost a decade and I am morbidly fascinated to know how horribly she has coped.
I hear you. You did good. Proud of you.
As the scapegoat, this is spot on and triggering me hard core.
Thank you for watching.
Any donation would help in making these videos.
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/donations
Same here!
M 47 here and I just figured out this is my family of origin.
I took this family for 52 years! 2 weeks ago i "buried" this family for good. No more! I am trying to heal and survive... it is amazingly hard but enough is enough. No more of this abuse...
SO TRUE. All of it. Submit to the dominant narcissistic member, in my case, the father. And immigration revved him up x10. The family became the only place where my parents felt they had control. Mom was the narcissistic second in command, but in reality, she is a codependent, taking a lot after him. Both felt I had to be the inferior one, to them. I was the only one they could feel superior to, other than everyone else, of course, lol, but i was the only they could make FEEL inferior.
They'd always say everyone around us was incompetent shit, but they couldn't make anyone feel that way. Just me. Isn't that something... Then when I did become a doctor, the first thing mom said was, "if you don't treat us with respect, dad will call the Physicians College and they will take your license away. We are your parents; we can do that." Sickening, isn't it.
So sorry you were treated with such cruelty. They don't own us and there will be justice one day I believe.
@@aubreygomez89 Thank you :)
@@goldheartminer7069 thank you :)
@@raphaellavictoria01 Raphaella, I am so sorry you worked so hard and they threatened you with that. Not even my parents are that bad. Are you still in contact? I hope I’m not being too forward by asking. I just wonder if now that you’re a doctor you have removed yourself from fear they’d act on the threat, or did you take it for an empty threat?
Lady, I applaud you👏🏽 You becoming a Doctor gives me so much hope for my dreams of becoming a writer! Your pain is excruciating to read such a horrible experience for someone as brilliant as you! I have similar experiences and have been through some extreme stuff like that too, it’s completely heartbreaking. I was told my whole life my vulnerabilities and my feelings and just me in general are what make me weak. I spit on that sentence. I make myself strong because I am strong and I always have been. I’m strong even with being sensitive because my sensitivities are my strengths. My gift. And even though i’m still young (24yo and have a 3yo) I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for the first time ever in my life and I can taste my dreams coming true soon. Bless you Raphaella❤
Ouch. That one about appearances really hit me. That was Mom’s theme song. No adult ever helped us children because we were so well groomed by Mom. If you said ANYthing to a teacher, parent or whoever, she lost it and came at that child with head shots as her goal.
It's quite a revelation to hear all the unspoken rules... spoken out loud. Now I can see the manipulation is real, not imagined. As children we are forced to blindly follow these rules. Sad that so many of us grew up this way. At least now, it doesn't have to continue. Great post Jerry!
Going through this now. No contact on 24/12/22 with narcissist sister. However as she has regular contact with other members who are all dysfunction I have decided to no contact the lot. So far just phone calls and messages. ( flying monkeys) . Ignored all. Going through detox at moment from toxic trauma bond. Determined to heal and not be around these toxic people again.
Good for you,Alan ! And congratulations on going into detox, and putting your life on track without meddling from dysfunctional family members.
Go full no contact. No contact of any kind with them or anyone they know. Get away. You can only then make a life for yourself and a family of your choosing. This abuse will never, ever stop.
#7 and #9 are the big ones in my family. My mom’s feelings were the only feelings that mattered. There was not enough room for anyone else to feel anything. And she raged all of the time. The last time I visited was thanksgiving 2018. She was raging as I was zipping up my bags to leave. I should have ordered a car service, as she insisted on driving with my father and I to the airport. We said nothing. I almost vomited in the car. I’m still mad about that.
I lived this. I was never safe at my family. I moved out as soon as I could and I remember that it felt so weird coming to my place and not feeling anxiety and fear.
I also remember that the fact that we all have to think as a narcissist went that far that when I was legal age to vote, I had to vote as narcissist.
100%
I would feel most at peace when narc covert mother was asleep or out if the house. I've felt this was for as long as I remember and I knew it wasn't normal to feel that way towards a parent (it's not a teenage phase).
It seems the only way out of this dynamic is self-exile. Do not fall for "discussion" or "negotiation," they don't negotiate--they dictate. That same sociopathic relationship is perpetuated in US society through the presence of the same in nearly all employer relations. They feel justified.
It’s not to do with the US. These exact same dynamics and abuses are in play in every country in the world.
@@Bronte866US empire rules the world and is a psychopathic pathocracy.
@@Bronte866US = empire by denial/deception - Immerwahr
...using proxies (Israel,Apatheid South Africa,Germany,Japan,Saudi, France,Ukraine,etc), pawns & patsies US = empire by denial/deception - Immerwahr
...using proxies (Israel,Apatheid South Africa,Germany,Japan,Saudi, France,Ukraine,etc), pawns & patsies
@@Bronte866 I believe many other countries have better laws to protect workers rights. Things like allowing unionizing, paid maternity leave, yada yada yada which all balance the employer/employee relationship. Our laws have allowed employers to be predatory
When the parent who abused me died I felt a tremendous freedom.
I also grieved that she and we would never have the loving relationship I had craved for the first 50 years of my life.
It’s crazy how much some of these rules line up with the unspoken rules of religious groups also. As someone who raised in both I remember feeling like the only options were to give in and become part of the system, or be seen as a complete outcast, constantly told how serious a mistake I was making by turning against God (which really meant turning off away from them) and then still be dragged around like a pet to keep up the facade that everything was fine. Went with the latter and it was an awful period of my life, but I left as soon as I could and haven’t looked back.
Rule #1; Never take responsibility for abuse.
I never knew there a English word to describe me called scapegoat .... I've been the reason of every problem in my family almost since childhood
I believe these videos may be helpful to you -
Overcoming the role of the scapegoat: th-cam.com/video/QSKXcv-w658/w-d-xo.html
Resisting the role of the scapegoat:
th-cam.com/video/docLxL3Z0_U/w-d-xo.html
Go no contact as soon as you can. Get out.
My mom was a big believer in form over content. She spent so much time rehearsing in the bathroom mirror, primping her makeup, hair for hours- while walking around for hours in her underwear. We were the sideshow to her production. If she put us first it was a huge accomplishment and sacrifice we were to be extremely grateful for. Not a natural part of parenting. When she did finally get dressed she needed our critique of her outfit constantly asking over and over throughout the morning if we liked her choice of blouse or dress. Even if we emphatically told her it was beautiful and she looked beautiful, she still needed repeated praise and reassurance. That’s actually what WE NEEDED as children as people finding our way through life. We needed encouragement, praise and reassurance- not for our outfits as that wasn’t import, but as new human beings on the planet. What a backwards childhood. We were there for HER. Oh, besides we didn’t mind although the clothes critiquing got exhausting. Children are unconditionally loving. We really didn’t understand the Bruhaha over appearance. I’m talking small young children.unfortunately. Society encourages this focus on clothing and beauty as adults. In my young adulthood I actually started believing her view of the world because it seemed the world- outside word, is a narcissist.
My nmom didnt even wear underwear. She was always in night gown since she slept most of her life, watched tv, ate and grew fat. I grew up wondering why she wasn’t like the moms I saw outside and yet was a cult leader at home. Apparently, I was supposed to be thankful for having a biological mother and forget that she kicked me in the belly, pressed my chest with her foot, slapped me and too many more to mention.
@@meatrealwishes I am so sorry.
Yes people in society can be toxic, but people end up with this way of thinking and being due to toxic and dysfunctional family members. Because if you have a parent or parents with a healthy way of thinking and being, and was taught to have a healthy image of self. You will not receive or accept the toxic views that the outside world try to project onto you. Because you was taught how to love God first and foremost, self, and others properly. Counseling and a healthy relationship with Christ and self can help you overcome that. Blessings to you and yours in Jesus name. Consider looking up videos about a young woman called the ugliest woman in the world. I admired the level of confidence and self love that she displayed.
My mother treated me in this exact way as well.
Omg! is your mom, my mom? She would practice conversations in a nice voice for hours in her underwear . So creepy. As a teen would say “oh you’re not wearing makeup?”. As a young adult I never felt comfortable not wearing 392 lbs of makeup because I was conditioned to think something was wrong with me if I didn’t.
.... and all of it sat in my subconscious for decades never truly understanding real roots of my depressions, and in later years mental breakdown.... Thank you, Jerry
Cleaning out old stables
Grew up with all 22 rules in a narcissistic and Factitious disordered family system. First time hearing the terms 'dominate narcissist,' and 'super-self.' These concepts are calling me for the deeper work I need right now. Great video Jerry. Thanks so much.
My mother had me when she really shouldn't have. My stepfather found me inconvenient. Neither one of them can look me in the eyes without shame or guilt, since their divorce. I have found the strength and force to say how I feel and put them aside from what is important and good in my life.
This is my life! Boundary is a bad word in my family. Feelings, emotions, thoughts, opinions are do not matter. To speak the truth to them, is to tell a lie. There's so much; it's exhausting.
You’ve explained my childhood and adult life with my Family. I’m the scapegoat, we haven’t seen each other in 3years… they made me homeless during covid and have never contacted or responded to me since! Except to say they had cancer! lol I said good I’m glad and I hope it hurts, and is long and painful!!
I’m so happy someone covered family and not just romance for once!!!
You’re missing out on a lot of good channels. Patrick Teahan for starters.
I was forced to go no contact and now I love it. I have a new lease on life.
The thing about Rules in this type of family is the rules change constantly to where no one wins. The truth talker will get blamed and scapegoated. Golden child is never wrong. If there are other siblings they they become the flying monkeys/enablers. The taking sides is SO true. I always say our family puts the FUN in dysfunction. Loved the family super self explanation. Makes so much sense. Thank you for your videos.
I have just found your channel and it's as if you're talking about me. I'm full of tears and a deep deep sadness as I'm coming to terms with what I always suspected from my earliest memories but have only recently acknowledged. You've just explained exactly how it is in every way. I'm 61 and this is true validation. Thank you from the bottom of my heart
Welcome to the family. We are here to grow, heal and differentiate, I hope we help you do that as well🤍
this is all so scarily true; it's like you were there! my mother was a narc, my father an ice-cold brick wall of a man, I was the scapegoat, my sister the golden child; I was to blame for problems in their marriage and anything else that "was wrong, my father told me "if I have to choose between you and her, I'll choose her" I was ten years old and I believed him
Been there. Go no contact. None. Ever.
My dad said that to me when I was a teenager and my mum had stormed out the house after an argument with him. I got upset and slammed a plate down which broke. He shoved me against the cooker and screamed it in my face. Now looking back, I realise he was taking his anger out on me but really it had nothing to do with me.
I was the golden child but that was abusive too, I was the cook, the cleaner, I looked after her children. As the eldest I bore the brunt of her rage , always. I knew something was really off with our family, I felt very alone, there was no love or care from siblings, I spent 20 years pouring positive energy into these relationships with not one gesture of care back. But something happened that was the catalyst for all of her covert narc behaviours to come out in one go...... the grouping of the behaviours in a short time frame was massively distressing and the pain of it will likely never be matched by anything else. I switched from golden child to scapegoat in that time. I didnt know what covert narcissism was then so the confusion was agonising. A wise friend told me it was likely covert narcissism and so many pieces fell into place when I started to look into this. She had literally metered out every single covert narc strategy to me over three months then she and my father gaslit me about the abuse and my siblings ignored me. I got the full view ....I have a very toxic family system. I'm out now, but they still contact me at birthdays and I've had to get the police involved because it's so damaging to my mental health. So they will ignore me and invalidate me and psychologically erase me, but will then come back and harass me. Literally THE most toxic forms of communication possible. It's been the most painful experience of my life , but I'm now out of the Truman Show, I now have a much better understanding of the abuse I experienced. I am on a very different path but it's a path of truth now instead of pouring yet more energy into a cess pit of toxicity and hoping for something positive back.
I know the pain and the struggle. Keep up the healing and and connection with yourself. In the upcoming weeks I will be uploading more content regarding the topic- growing out of dysfunctional family dynamics and getting your family of origin out of you. I also have an upcoming workshop on this topic- it can help you tremendously on this journey you are on.
I send love, healing and strength your way ❤️
I too was the golden child...oldest...cook/cleaner/babysitter/yard boy/etc. My poor sister was the scapegoat...I tried to get mom to love me...I think sis just did not give a flip. It only took one time ...and when I stood my ground on a moral issue...she no longer cared for me...except when she needed me to do something for her...like put up the x mas tree...or clean out her pantry. Dad was an abusive/womanizing/bipolar alcoholic so no love from that side. Toxic parenting to the max.
There are no words to describe how much this resonates with me. What a genius. In my case, the worst was developing a host of problems caused by being in this incredibly toxic, explosive, uncertain and unsafe home and then being blamed and ridiculed for being "anxious, insecure, sick" etc.....even 30 years later. The epitome of unfairness which still stings today. Sounds like a victim identity to anyone who doesn't know. This man seems to get it. It isn't about having a victim mentality, it's just how it is, growing up in the narcissist family Mr. Wise describes. Finally. To. be. understood, at last. Not mocked, not told to stop having a victim mentality, not blamed for anxiety, depression, performance anxiety, social unease, fear of authority figures, difficulty with conflicts, etc etc etc.
Rule #1 - It's my way or the highway.
Rule #2 - See rule 1.
100 %
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
@21:01 "May my introject be with you." "And also with you." LOL!
#18 - Can't rely on the "good" parent
Never had the good parent, anyone not constantly blaming, accusing, or belittling me would have been welcome
😔💔
My mother asked me whether or not she was a good mother to me growing up and I'm thinking, wow man, were you not there? Did you forget all the screaming, crying, and fiasco after fiasco? All for man who will, to this day, throw her under the bus to save himself, use her for money and mentally abuse her children. That's what she accepts daily and all her children must suffer along with her. 3 out of 4 children contemplated suicide, but she doesn't know.
I just came home after spending a 1 month helping my narcissistic stepmother out. I was treated very badly by her and her daughters. I will never go back. That family is so toxic I can't stand anyone of them. Was used and abused and will no longer put up with it. Was ordered around like a dog and my step mom would make plans with my stepsister and then would ignore me and just expect me to drive her around and go along with what they wanted to do and where they wanted to go. She treated me like I was invisible. It was appalling. I finally told her off. I wanted to order a pizza and she would flip out and throw a tantrum. I was not allowed to drink her bottle sodas and was expected to buy my own food and drink even though I was there to help her. It was horrendous. I felt like a trapped animal.
...gosh can recognise so many things from my family-background. Can also recognise the trauma and struggle there is in my grown-up life coming from this background! If I should describe my upbringing it would be: tension, fear, smooth out any conflict on the surface, feeling unsafe, explosive rage from certain family members, don't disagree, don't have your own opinions and feelings, show the outside world how perfect the family is to the outside, loyalty to the family members over anything else, never say no to things or requests from family members...and so much more!
I can resonate this with you ❤
NO boundaries.
No where to run.
Q: is “oh, there’s no talking to you” a typical rationalization for a narcissistic parent to effectively bypass any consequential (meaning real) interaction?
After 30 years they have also become too confident in their dominance and manipulation in my family. Fortunately, because there is so much content on the subject, I now know that this is all not normal and that I do have my own truth and the fear they have instilled in me no longer has the upper hand in me. I have now finally had the courage to throw them out of my life and go no contact. Now when I think about my dad's facial expressions, I feel sick to my stomach. I never wanted to see this, I thought it was normal, but looking at that reality now gives me a nauseous feeling.
I would add to this, "Always have a source of discord going on. Several, one tied directly at a specific member, another that everyone can be mad about together., perhaps more. This is to keep everyone under control and distracted from the real problems."
Good addition.To control and distract…
I think it’s also some kind of twisted bonding as well.The shared hatred keeps everyone sucked in.
The parts about the zero sum game, always having to take sides, and always living in fear, really hit home with me. Also, never being allowed to question anything, always having to agree completely with the narcissist parent about everything. I was trained to accept these things as "normal".
You have been through this sick game thank you for showing me once again how evil they are👍
My Mother told me I ruined her Christmas because my 7 yr old Son wascin the hospital & I could not attend Christmas dinner. Then yrs later, she excluded me from Thanksgiving because my niece was bringing her new bf & my Sister didn't want any trouble (which I have never done.) As much as that hurt it is what encouraged me to go no contact & become my own best friend! 😊
So, so spot on that I had to send it to my sister. You described our childhood without knowing we exist. Just...gobsmacking in how accurate. One that hit so hard was that with unreliable parents, one might be emotionally wanting to care and provide properly, but they're under submission, so in truth, you can't rely on them. I know my poor mother knew she fell short at that line of submission, and that she felt terrible guilt and shame over it, but was unable to overcome it. Smh. I am so sad that this was our reality.
Wow. I just found you, and this material is just excellent. 100% correct. Aggressive narc pop, passive aggressive mother, raised in the unstable, neurotic world of a transient military family, we had no escape. Ugly stories all. This is so validating. Thank you.
So unbelievably accurate. I'm facing siblings that truly want my emotional destruction. After the death of my mother, they turned on me fully, ganged up on me last year, a long time coming. I even could see with distinction triangulation with certain extended family members who didn't want to go with the head narcissist fully at first. More lies, gossip and slander was served & an even more severe manipulation of the lesser narcs was needed to finish the deed of fully isolating me. I watched this all unfold as they intentionally inflicted emotional harm. Luckily and hilariously because I'm stronger than all of them put together, I am still standing better than ever. I have also taken many psychological acting classes where they trained us to see the subtext in human behavior which has been very helpful to me. They don't know it, but they can "feel" how I see right through them, they are terrified as I know they are all heavily masked. I truly believe in a concerted effort with the head narc they were actually trying to cause my emotional breakdown, to the point one weaker narc kept calling me, feeling guilty I suspect after the brutal discarding or a spy. Not really sure but do know she kept calling and kept asking if I was okay in voicemails. I never answered her. And I have since been no contact with all of them two siblings and 2 in-laws and all of their children.
Now they are all having karmic tragedies in their life, I won't get into details but it's pretty biblical in some cases. It is unfortunately it's very sad. Meanwhile I'm free healthy happy, lost a ton of weight, got a huge raise & bonus at my job. just took classes again & being creative, I have more friends than ever feeling better thanks to a support group for adult children of Alcoholics. I believe a lot of narcissism and toxicity stems from the disease of alcoholism. Thanks ever so much to you for this video!
So please for you, you deserve full piece of mind. They are pure evil, no contact is the best for your well being.
Christianity creates Narcissism. God is a sociopath.
I had the inter-battle I would prove my parents wrong. Everything you mentioned was so true about my family. Thank you.
You're welcome, I'm glad resonated!
Excellent explanation of family dynamics. I was the family scapegoat.
Thank you for watching.
Any donation would help in making these videos.
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/donations
Married into this cult and counting the months until my kid is legal, he safely moves out on his own to college, and I am finally free from having to run interference for all the sickness he has had to observe both passively, and at times actively, from his father and his father’s “keepers” (my Medusa MIL at the puppeteering helm). Constantly making sure to keep him out of the middle of crazy-town. So, damn, exhausted!
You sound like a good person. I never wanted kids. I've worried about nieces and nephews but its outta my hands and I think theyll be alright. Always knew something was off and then to listen to vids like this after the fact. Holy crap! What a horrific cycle
@@boxelder9147 CULTS DO EXIST, and you will find them under the guise of 2 things: feigned religious observance and someone else’s hard-earned money. Bottom line: there is NO FIXING THESE SICKOS. You just gotta get outta hell as quickly as timing will allow. 🙏🏼
I was lucky enough to get my kids away from my Medusa! She is so sick and twisted, she got 1 our kids to hate us and move with her. We cut off all communication after that happened. All Medusa family is her little puppets. She just sits back and watches the madness happen between the family. Called her out several time and she instantly went to victim mode. Poor her and why would I do this to her. Haha 😂
@@MPR_2023 do we have the same Medusa??? Does she use money to lure??
Best comment on here. Take this advice. Get out.
Now I get it. Too bad I'm 61 years old. What a waste.
Sorry that sucks, my heart goes out yo you, I’m almost 36 and trying to get away but feel trapped because of finances :(
Wow Jerry, this just rattled a few bars of the cage. Thank you very much! You are the 2nd wise Jerry in my life & I am so grateful for the work you do and share. So much Love.
You are very welcome
Thank you for watching.
Any donation would help in making these videos.
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/donations
Never enough love and respect .one has to gain at someone loss .so true .
This is the most helpful video I have EVER seen in this long, painful journey with my husband's family system!
That's great Debbie!
Thank you for watching.
Any donation would help in making these videos.
www.jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com/donations
I dont deal with this narcs family AT ALL NOT FOR YEARS NOPE NAW NO! HAPPIER💯💥
Your description of the "super self" was exactly what I needed to hear right now. I come from a narcissistic family, and the golden child (my sister) is getting married and I am voluntarily not going to the wedding. You can only imagine the shit show that will come of this. It's been emotionally challenging, but this "super self" description seriously gave me so much insight. Thank you so much for this video, I can't begin to describe how much I needed to hear these things right now.
I moved to Paris, French, avoided a wedding..and wanted to learn French so I could become as I might- without the family.
No discussions. No opinions. Totally ignore the parent ( Scapegoat ) you are told to, by the leader. Be obedient to the lead parent. Do not ask for anything. Do not have anger. Do not have or bring friends into the home. These were some of ours.
I think my grandma was narcissistic, and my grandpa possibly codependent. Plus, he worked a lot, so my grandma was the disciplinarian or what have you. The thing I got is that even if what she said was wrong, my grandpa went along with it. And I see in my mom and her sister's that they tend to be narcissistic, angry, and bitter towards men. They talk behind each other's back and create unnecessary drama. Some of them are mid to late 60's. The only thing I say is seek counseling and get help. Don't go to your grave with this mindset and way of being.
Reading through the comments, it seems we all grew up in the same family. Everyone here has the courage to seek help, get better, and escape that no-win game. I’m proud of all of us.