Being frank with you, your form is not good enough to throw drivers effectively. All this data is a lost cause for your present disc golf game. Start with flippy lightweight putters and standstills. Work on placing the putter inside a 60' diameter circle from a distance of 300'. Get good at landing in the circle from a hyzer release, anhyzer release and flat. Once the putter starts turning over from a flat release, start throwing it on hyzer to flip it straight. I'd like to see this video series from you. Once you're competent with the putter, start over with a flippy midrange, then do the same with a fairway. I'm a 44 year old Engineer that found disc golf when i was 39. I'm here for your journey, it'll be a rewarding one 👍🥏
Thanks for the frank thoughts, they aren't lost on me, definitely aware of the inconsistencies and they were amplified in these test throws especially as I was trying to implement some recommended form updates, tough to do on the fly. This is definitely quantifying mediocrity at this point! :) I am learning a lot about form and will definitely be focusing on it more. Great video series suggestion! I am sure many many people can relate to the need to improve the types of form inconsistencies I'm having. I enjoy the data analysis, and am aware that the results in this video only apply to the current version of my throwing form and really just demonstrate my inconsistency, but fun to quantify things a bit! I'll keep pushing to improve that! Should be fun!
Any suggestions on putter weights to start with? I do have a lightweight ~150g Streamline parachute that might be exactly what you are thinking here... I've been wanting to do some more testing and use of that disc!
Anything 170-175 for putter if your going to be throwing it hard. I like my swan 2 for throwing it will hyzer flip to straight pretty easy without turning over. 10 bucks at academy sports for me.
@@fallguy1771 thanks for your feedback on this comment and your other one! I appreciate it. I am definitely having fun. I do think it would be fun to do some Potter work to improve the form though so thanks for the suggestion! I’m doing a bit of research and we’ll see where it takes me!
Agree with this one! 41 and these are two of my longest discs. Trail pretty straight, Gorgon more turn (gstar will turn over when beat in). Mamba I needed a more premium plastic but went far before getting too understable.
@@soldiercoop awesome, sounds about right. I need to get another Gorgon and try it out, I only had one briefly before losing it and I feel like I’m at a place where it might work better than that one did. Thanks for the comment and and great to hear how these days work for you!
Mamba's are flippy roller disc fun throwers for sure. Trails are staples of my bag I bag a 168 and a 174 for windy conditions. I'm 54 and I prefer my disc to be between 168 to 174 for drivers. Trails tend to be more stable in the beginning but beat in nice. Some of my best throws with the trail have been from a stand still release. I also play at sea level in the woods so my disc probably act a little different than Utah mountain air. Living next to infinite is a nice perk so I'm gonna give you a nice disc suggestion to purchase. In my gyropalooza box I got a streamline jet a non overmold premium mvp plastic 11 5 -3 -1 that cost 13 bucks. It's a great hyzer flip go right disc a. more controllable mamba in my opinion. Like watching your content I'm in the same boat as you being a student of this game. Keep throwing and keep having fun.
@@Nousefornonsense thank you for your comment! I’m definitely leaning towards the lighter trail when comparing it back to my heavier one sounds like I’ve thrown the exact same weight trails as you but only have the 168 g now due to losing the other one. Your suggestion of the streamline jet is very tempting, indeed! So fun to keep learning from all of these great comments, thanks so much!
@@edgarpung5843 thank you for your interest! I used MATLAB to write the code for the data analysis and programming. It was the quickest to get something up and running that I could use to analyze a few frames in each of these throws.
I would be very interested in trying out your software if you are willing to share it. I started playing at 50 and have no idea what my release angle are or my arm speed. I have done some programing decades ago, but i doubt i could make something like you have done now.
@@ysteinmoe55 thank you for your interest! I used MATLAB for the data analysis and programming. It was the quickest to get something up and running that I could use to analyze a few frames in each of these throws. I’m still thinking about sharing some of this code somehow and I’m considering using some sort of a web application. I’ll keep your comment in mind and if/when I have the software available, will let everybody know in a video it may take some time though to get it into the state where it’s ready to go. I may even decide at some point that I’m open to analyzing video for other people, just have them send a throw clip, and process it and send it back with the results like you saw my video, probably for some nominal fee for taking a bit of time. I would also need a clip of the disc at known distances away from the camera since everyone has different cameras. Anyway, lots to think about, but could be a lot of fun too maybe be helpful that way as well. Thanks for your comment!
@ysteinmoe55 are you familiar with Matlab programming? We could go back and forth if you are interested in my relatively rough version of this that requires quite a bit of manual work. I may convert it to R as well, but with the existing functionality if possible. Let me know your thoughts.
@@JamesPearsonDG I only have the basic programming experience in some older programming languages like Basic, C++, PHP and Java. I have started a watchmaking journey a couple of years ago and opening a workshop now so i have limited time venturing into programming again at this time. I use my free time on discgolf now as that helps with my health, and of course for the fun and social aspect. Thanks for your reply and consideration. Please let me know if you decide to make this available for others to use as a tool to improve form or as a measuring tool. Thanks for your content :)
I did some analysis of the disc position with time using the known disc diameter and how many pixels covered that diameter at known distances. I did some geometry to make sure I was measuring distance in the direction of travel from frame to frame. Distance/time gave velocity. I did this all with Matlab (a data analysis programming software package in case you're not familiar). Could use Python or similar as well to do something like this. Maybe more or less info than you wanted :)
With this throwing speed, take the Crave or Rhythm and you’ll comfortably throw 300 feet. Leave those 10+ speed discs aside! Discs with a speed rating of 6.5-7 will give you maximum distance at this throwing speed!
I started throwing drivers around 150g recently and getting great results as a senior player with 40+ years (casual) experience. First I had a 146g Jade and got 50ft extra. Light Destroyers (< 140g!) are amazing. I bag a 148g Photon and a 166g Trail and a 148g Crave for longer courses. I use full-weight putters (but also a 153g Glitch sometimes) and approach discs 160->full-weight. My TechDisc tells me my arm speed with the 175g Undertaker its mounted on tops out around 45mph. I would love to get info on the feature detectors you use to locate the disc in your software, since in theory the lighter discs will go faster given the same scrawny arm's force, and I have the time and chops for coding something. (Nose angle seems hard to get given the low camera view from behind, but lateral views can make the disc a blur... )
@@ineffible thanks so much for the comment and it’s great to hear about the discs that are working for you, sounds like we have similar arm speeds! As far as the software, I had to go about this the slower approach but reliable and manually select the disc edges in each frame that is analyzed so yeah, not the fastest but more reliable than some of the methods I did try to automate disc detection. I’ll probably keep working on that and improving it, but we’ll have to see. With disc blurring you just have to use decent lighting, so your disc is crisp with sharp edges in every frame, and another thing I tried to do was 60 frames per second, but had some setting problems in the videos did not end up recording in 60. The key was just knowing the number of pixels across the disc at different distances, and then doing some geometry to get the launch angle and distance traveled in the direction of motion from frame to frame. Definitely a fun experiment and I will probably keep messing around to improve it, thanks for your interest and taking the time to share with me!
I'm going to be turning 46 next month. I average 350 with the Mamba. I highly recommend watching some form vids, particularly from Drew Gibson. The Mamba is a great disc for lower arm speeds but with proper form you can push your throws further. You got to know your discs though, I have a Halo mamba and a dx base plastic one. The Halo has to be thrown flat to slightly anhyzer, and the dx must be thrown on hyzer. If you try other discs, make sure you choose high glide as they will give you more distance at low arm speeds. I'm a Innova guy so I bag the IT, Gorgon, Mamba, Tern.
@@jasonscottlinville lots of great input on form, thanks! Also great discussion suggestions! All a work in progress, I’ll probably do some more form focused stuff soon on here. I’d love to be consistent on that 350 distance! I can only hit it with luck here and there. Thanks for the comment!
@@pitac8340 all the programming for this one was in Matlab which I use a lot at work. I have used python and R quite a bit in the past and could get it up and running on that if I wanted to. Matlab was just a little quicker with this kind of thing for me due to familiarity. If I remain ambitious, and there’s interest, I may try to create an online application or something that people could try to do this themselves as well, but that is the whole other kind of project. Thanks for your interest!
Would you say you have good nose down angle? I seem ti struggle with that and inthrow about the same as you but have never had my trail past 300. Just thinking that might be still holding me back from my potential distance which could be the distance you are getting. I am 42 and still have the.gial if getting to consistent 350 ft driver distance.
I definitely see a big difference when I can get a good nose down throw. My best throws are always the right balance between nose angle and launch angle with maybe a slight anhyzer release. I'm still working on being consistent with these "good" throws. Tough when I'm trying to change up my form at the same time to improve that. All fun though and worth the effort!
Have your son try a simple trick to get his throws straight (and for a slight Anhyzer thrower it may already be right in his ballpark... Stand with a disc in each hand... Arms straight out (like a scarecrow). Loose from the elbows out... keep the arms at shoulder height... Agitate like a washing machine at the hips, back and forth... both arms will mirror each other... As he turns left, the right arm straightens out and swings wide... As he slows the left turn, the right arm bends at the elbow and the shoulder As he stops the turn the right disc is headed into his chest... As he turns right the right disc pulls into his chest and hovers in front of the chest as he turns As he slows the right turn, the right disc travels in a straight line across his chest as the right shoulder straightens out As he stops the right disc travels from the shoulder out in the direction of the "target"... As he turns left, the right arm straightens out .... rinse repeat... Meanwhile the LEFT disc does the exact same thing, mirrored... so looking from above, the right disc travels in anticlockwise circles... the left disc in clockwise circles... Done correctly, there is no muscle effort in the arms except to limit the shoulder to elbow section from moving across his chest more than 90deg (straight ahead). The action can be sped up... the arms should always be level... and the head looking straight ahead, down a little so he can watch the discs turning into his chest slowly and exiting from the shoulder fasted (not fast until they reach the shoulder from the chest... The action should be a bit like whipping someone with a towel in the back of the neck... Especially once he's relaxed and can pick up the pace a little (not too whipping fast yet... When he's ready to try a release, ... do the action a couple of times and use the hips to give an extra acceleration right as the disc gets to his chest... He should be able to get to the point where he can whip the disc hard enough it will just rip out of his hand... ... and it's all the hips, no arm muscle at all... Keep the arms perpendicular to the chest... Lean back a little, bending at the hips, for Anhyzer Lean forward a little, bending at the hips, for Hyzer Use a neutral disc like the Crave. Wave, Trail. This action is a little like the tiny drums in Karate Kid II ... "Den-den daiko" I can whip a Crave about 250+ft standing still when showing people this... And do NOT look where I throw it until the disc has long left my hand... Looking at straight ahead and down allows you to see the path of the disc in the windup so you can see if you are dropping the 'reach back' or tilting the disc.. (Which in this instance should be perpendicular to the chest... along with those forearms... so easy to see then stay flat with the ground in the motions.
Bro...I'm yr age and I bag a 148g Gstar Mamba, a 158g Star Mamba, and a 164g Halo Star Mamba. They are 3 entirely different discs. All 3 are my longest discs, but for different reasons. I throw 50-53mph on a flat release. So, the Halo will not turn, the Star will turn a bit, the Gstar freaking BOMBs, but it's gonna turn, but NOT turn over. Having all three is my solution to not being able to throw hard on hyzer.
Don't mean to be negative I've been playing sense 98 and what i see is your. Form needs some work for these discs that you are throwing maybe try a heat, river or a sidewinder before going into the higher speed disc. Keep on playing brother it will come to ya
Thanks! I definitely agree on my form, a work in progress that I probably need to kind of reset at this point. Thanks for the suggestions and constructive feedback! All this throwing on camera is definitely uncovering every issue!! :)
Being frank with you, your form is not good enough to throw drivers effectively. All this data is a lost cause for your present disc golf game. Start with flippy lightweight putters and standstills. Work on placing the putter inside a 60' diameter circle from a distance of 300'. Get good at landing in the circle from a hyzer release, anhyzer release and flat. Once the putter starts turning over from a flat release, start throwing it on hyzer to flip it straight. I'd like to see this video series from you. Once you're competent with the putter, start over with a flippy midrange, then do the same with a fairway. I'm a 44 year old Engineer that found disc golf when i was 39. I'm here for your journey, it'll be a rewarding one 👍🥏
Thanks for the frank thoughts, they aren't lost on me, definitely aware of the inconsistencies and they were amplified in these test throws especially as I was trying to implement some recommended form updates, tough to do on the fly. This is definitely quantifying mediocrity at this point! :) I am learning a lot about form and will definitely be focusing on it more. Great video series suggestion! I am sure many many people can relate to the need to improve the types of form inconsistencies I'm having. I enjoy the data analysis, and am aware that the results in this video only apply to the current version of my throwing form and really just demonstrate my inconsistency, but fun to quantify things a bit! I'll keep pushing to improve that! Should be fun!
Any suggestions on putter weights to start with? I do have a lightweight ~150g Streamline parachute that might be exactly what you are thinking here... I've been wanting to do some more testing and use of that disc!
I also have a max weight OHM and Proxy that may be worth considering for this type of form work.
Anything 170-175 for putter if your going to be throwing it hard. I like my swan 2 for throwing it will hyzer flip to straight pretty easy without turning over. 10 bucks at academy sports for me.
@@fallguy1771 thanks for your feedback on this comment and your other one! I appreciate it. I am definitely having fun. I do think it would be fun to do some Potter work to improve the form though so thanks for the suggestion! I’m doing a bit of research and we’ll see where it takes me!
Keep up the videos, very interesting to follow your journey.
Love following your journey! Greetings from Sweden
Thanks for watching!
Love watching you learn brother! I'm 45 max 475ft with an average arm speed around 65-68 mph. I'll follow your journey and keep up the good vids!
Thanks for the kind words! Congrats on your distance! Maybe I'll get there when I grow up too :) Learning a ton, really loving this sport!
Keep on grinding brother youll get there form wise but it takes time🤕
Agree with this one! 41 and these are two of my longest discs. Trail pretty straight, Gorgon more turn (gstar will turn over when beat in). Mamba I needed a more premium plastic but went far before getting too understable.
@@soldiercoop awesome, sounds about right. I need to get another Gorgon and try it out, I only had one briefly before losing it and I feel like I’m at a place where it might work better than that one did. Thanks for the comment and and great to hear how these days work for you!
Throw what you want to throw have fun in the learning process. Dont let the negative comments change what your doing if you're having fun.
153g Fission Wave.
Mamba's are flippy roller disc fun throwers for sure. Trails are staples of my bag I bag a 168 and a 174 for windy conditions. I'm 54 and I prefer my disc to be between 168 to 174 for drivers. Trails tend to be more stable in the beginning but beat in nice. Some of my best throws with the trail have been from a stand still release. I also play at sea level in the woods so my disc probably act a little different than Utah mountain air. Living next to infinite is a nice perk so I'm gonna give you a nice disc suggestion to purchase. In my gyropalooza box I got a streamline jet a non overmold premium mvp plastic 11 5 -3 -1 that cost 13 bucks. It's a great hyzer flip go right disc a. more controllable mamba in my opinion. Like watching your content I'm in the same boat as you being a student of this game. Keep throwing and keep having fun.
@@Nousefornonsense thank you for your comment! I’m definitely leaning towards the lighter trail when comparing it back to my heavier one sounds like I’ve thrown the exact same weight trails as you but only have the 168 g now due to losing the other one. Your suggestion of the streamline jet is very tempting, indeed! So fun to keep learning from all of these great comments, thanks so much!
Don't be afraid to really take the weight down for testing. Try a Tern or a Mamba at a weight at or below 140g. You may really be surprised.
What software are you using?
@@edgarpung5843 thank you for your interest! I used MATLAB to write the code for the data analysis and programming. It was the quickest to get something up and running that I could use to analyze a few frames in each of these throws.
I would be very interested in trying out your software if you are willing to share it. I started playing at 50 and have no idea what my release angle are or my arm speed. I have done some programing decades ago, but i doubt i could make something like you have done now.
@@ysteinmoe55 thank you for your interest! I used MATLAB for the data analysis and programming. It was the quickest to get something up and running that I could use to analyze a few frames in each of these throws. I’m still thinking about sharing some of this code somehow and I’m considering using some sort of a web application. I’ll keep your comment in mind and if/when I have the software available, will let everybody know in a video it may take some time though to get it into the state where it’s ready to go. I may even decide at some point that I’m open to analyzing video for other people, just have them send a throw clip, and process it and send it back with the results like you saw my video, probably for some nominal fee for taking a bit of time. I would also need a clip of the disc at known distances away from the camera since everyone has different cameras. Anyway, lots to think about, but could be a lot of fun too maybe be helpful that way as well. Thanks for your comment!
@ysteinmoe55 are you familiar with Matlab programming? We could go back and forth if you are interested in my relatively rough version of this that requires quite a bit of manual work. I may convert it to R as well, but with the existing functionality if possible. Let me know your thoughts.
@@JamesPearsonDG I only have the basic programming experience in some older programming languages like Basic, C++, PHP and Java. I have started a watchmaking journey a couple of years ago and opening a workshop now so i have limited time venturing into programming again at this time. I use my free time on discgolf now as that helps with my health, and of course for the fun and social aspect. Thanks for your reply and consideration. Please let me know if you decide to make this available for others to use as a tool to improve form or as a measuring tool. Thanks for your content :)
How were you measuring your arm speed?
I did some analysis of the disc position with time using the known disc diameter and how many pixels covered that diameter at known distances. I did some geometry to make sure I was measuring distance in the direction of travel from frame to frame. Distance/time gave velocity. I did this all with Matlab (a data analysis programming software package in case you're not familiar). Could use Python or similar as well to do something like this. Maybe more or less info than you wanted :)
@@JamesPearsonDG so no easy way is what a read lol
@@Kevin24018 :) very true haha!
With this throwing speed, take the Crave or Rhythm and you’ll comfortably throw 300 feet. Leave those 10+ speed discs aside! Discs with a speed rating of 6.5-7 will give you maximum distance at this throwing speed!
I started throwing drivers around 150g recently and getting great results as a senior player with 40+ years (casual) experience. First I had a 146g Jade and got 50ft extra. Light Destroyers (< 140g!) are amazing. I bag a 148g Photon and a 166g Trail and a 148g Crave for longer courses. I use full-weight putters (but also a 153g Glitch sometimes) and approach discs 160->full-weight. My TechDisc tells me my arm speed with the 175g Undertaker its mounted on tops out around 45mph. I would love to get info on the feature detectors you use to locate the disc in your software, since in theory the lighter discs will go faster given the same scrawny arm's force, and I have the time and chops for coding something. (Nose angle seems hard to get given the low camera view from behind, but lateral views can make the disc a blur... )
@@ineffible thanks so much for the comment and it’s great to hear about the discs that are working for you, sounds like we have similar arm speeds! As far as the software, I had to go about this the slower approach but reliable and manually select the disc edges in each frame that is analyzed so yeah, not the fastest but more reliable than some of the methods I did try to automate disc detection. I’ll probably keep working on that and improving it, but we’ll have to see. With disc blurring you just have to use decent lighting, so your disc is crisp with sharp edges in every frame, and another thing I tried to do was 60 frames per second, but had some setting problems in the videos did not end up recording in 60. The key was just knowing the number of pixels across the disc at different distances, and then doing some geometry to get the launch angle and distance traveled in the direction of motion from frame to frame. Definitely a fun experiment and I will probably keep messing around to improve it, thanks for your interest and taking the time to share with me!
I'm going to be turning 46 next month. I average 350 with the Mamba. I highly recommend watching some form vids, particularly from Drew Gibson. The Mamba is a great disc for lower arm speeds but with proper form you can push your throws further. You got to know your discs though, I have a Halo mamba and a dx base plastic one. The Halo has to be thrown flat to slightly anhyzer, and the dx must be thrown on hyzer. If you try other discs, make sure you choose high glide as they will give you more distance at low arm speeds. I'm a Innova guy so I bag the IT, Gorgon, Mamba, Tern.
@@jasonscottlinville lots of great input on form, thanks! Also great discussion suggestions! All a work in progress, I’ll probably do some more form focused stuff soon on here. I’d love to be consistent on that 350 distance! I can only hit it with luck here and there. Thanks for the comment!
What application do you use for your analytics?
@@pitac8340 all the programming for this one was in Matlab which I use a lot at work. I have used python and R quite a bit in the past and could get it up and running on that if I wanted to. Matlab was just a little quicker with this kind of thing for me due to familiarity. If I remain ambitious, and there’s interest, I may try to create an online application or something that people could try to do this themselves as well, but that is the whole other kind of project. Thanks for your interest!
Would you say you have good nose down angle? I seem ti struggle with that and inthrow about the same as you but have never had my trail past 300. Just thinking that might be still holding me back from my potential distance which could be the distance you are getting. I am 42 and still have the.gial if getting to consistent 350 ft driver distance.
I definitely see a big difference when I can get a good nose down throw. My best throws are always the right balance between nose angle and launch angle with maybe a slight anhyzer release. I'm still working on being consistent with these "good" throws. Tough when I'm trying to change up my form at the same time to improve that. All fun though and worth the effort!
Have your son try a simple trick to get his throws straight (and for a slight Anhyzer thrower it may already be right in his ballpark...
Stand with a disc in each hand... Arms straight out (like a scarecrow). Loose from the elbows out... keep the arms at shoulder height...
Agitate like a washing machine at the hips, back and forth... both arms will mirror each other...
As he turns left, the right arm straightens out and swings wide...
As he slows the left turn, the right arm bends at the elbow and the shoulder
As he stops the turn the right disc is headed into his chest...
As he turns right the right disc pulls into his chest and hovers in front of the chest as he turns
As he slows the right turn, the right disc travels in a straight line across his chest as the right shoulder straightens out
As he stops the right disc travels from the shoulder out in the direction of the "target"...
As he turns left, the right arm straightens out .... rinse repeat...
Meanwhile the LEFT disc does the exact same thing, mirrored... so looking from above, the right disc travels in anticlockwise circles... the left disc in clockwise circles...
Done correctly, there is no muscle effort in the arms except to limit the shoulder to elbow section from moving across his chest more than 90deg (straight ahead).
The action can be sped up... the arms should always be level... and the head looking straight ahead, down a little so he can watch the discs turning into his chest slowly and exiting from the shoulder fasted (not fast until they reach the shoulder from the chest...
The action should be a bit like whipping someone with a towel in the back of the neck... Especially once he's relaxed and can pick up the pace a little (not too whipping fast yet...
When he's ready to try a release, ... do the action a couple of times and use the hips to give an extra acceleration right as the disc gets to his chest...
He should be able to get to the point where he can whip the disc hard enough it will just rip out of his hand...
... and it's all the hips, no arm muscle at all...
Keep the arms perpendicular to the chest...
Lean back a little, bending at the hips, for Anhyzer
Lean forward a little, bending at the hips, for Hyzer
Use a neutral disc like the Crave. Wave, Trail.
This action is a little like the tiny drums in Karate Kid II ... "Den-den daiko"
I can whip a Crave about 250+ft standing still when showing people this... And do NOT look where I throw it until the disc has long left my hand...
Looking at straight ahead and down allows you to see the path of the disc in the windup so you can see if you are dropping the 'reach back' or tilting the disc.. (Which in this instance should be perpendicular to the chest... along with those forearms... so easy to see then stay flat with the ground in the motions.
Bro...I'm yr age and I bag a 148g Gstar Mamba, a 158g Star Mamba, and a 164g Halo Star Mamba. They are 3 entirely different discs. All 3 are my longest discs, but for different reasons. I throw 50-53mph on a flat release. So, the Halo will not turn, the Star will turn a bit, the Gstar freaking BOMBs, but it's gonna turn, but NOT turn over. Having all three is my solution to not being able to throw hard on hyzer.
Wow, thanks for the comment! Maybe I should try even lighter like you're saying !
Don't mean to be negative I've been playing sense 98 and what i see is your. Form needs some work for these discs that you are throwing maybe try a heat, river or a sidewinder before going into the higher speed disc. Keep on playing brother it will come to ya
Thanks! I definitely agree on my form, a work in progress that I probably need to kind of reset at this point. Thanks for the suggestions and constructive feedback! All this throwing on camera is definitely uncovering every issue!! :)