Hey Joris, thanks for the Video… quick Question!?Do you would get a better Dynamic range if you install any flat picture profiles to the m50? Something like technicolor or similar???
@@giovannialongi you might get a tiny improvement but it brings new problems like noise in the shadows in some situations. I stopped using it and I’m always using the neitral profile now.
I guarantee you that yes full frame has its advantages sometimes in certain light situations can't deny that but what I would say is the the smaller camera will get you out taking more photos that is winning
This is hands down one of the best, most easy to understand videos I've seen to date and answers a lot of my questions to do with aps-c vs full frame, and practically showing the difference. I've been a hobby photographer focused on landscape photography for years and never new that it was easier to bring back shadows than highlights.
I would like to say... All APSC users.. don't give up to create many good pictures. you still have a lot of weapon to create good art with your APSC camera. All you need is to learn more about how to take and process your photo
I would never really solely on the camera for quality pictures. You need editing software. It's what the industry utilize in the work flow all the time. With software like photoshop and raw editing softwares you don't need to be so concerned about getting the exposure to high or too low, just focus on a decent middle ground and concentrate on just getting the sharp shots and fix everything else later.
Great Vid Joris! Something to add is that it also depends on what tier the camera falls in: A Basic Fullframe camera like the EOSRP will be worse than a professional aspc camera such as the Pocket 6K Pro, Fujifilm XT4 or the C70.
Godverdekke Joris, dat heb je zeer goed uitgelegd! I bought my Canon M50 half a year ago and I experiment a lot, mostly filming. I am keen on understanding my gear and you helped me again. It is crucial to understand key aspects as "dynamic range" and "field of view" when using APS-C camera's. Thanks! Ah, en ik vind u een sympathieke vent!
The reason I sold my Canon EOS RP was the photo dynamic range is so hit and miss, got embarrassed by my wife's Samsung phone more than once lol... Got the Fuji XS10 and we're so happy with the photos it take... Realized that the worst full frame sensor is no match for the best APSC sensor
Really one of the best explanatory videos I have seen. Thank you. You will be one of the big youtubers soon, your videos are so good and you have such a fun personality! Really enjoying your videos.
I recently purchased a Fuji film XT5 and the dynamic range is as good as most for Fran cameras. I don't know how many stops it is in editing, but I shoot a lot of landscape photography and I can certainly drop the highlights in the sky and I can bring up shadows with very little loss of detail. It is an incredible feat for a 40 megapixel crop sensor camera to have such great dynamic range. I am stoked with this camera and if you're looking for a lighter camera, then this camera could be your next camera. Sorry for the promo, but it is so goo
It all depends on the sensor, not the size of the sensor. Of course, if you need more dynamic range than what is available in pretty much any modern digital camera, maybe you should wait for better light?
Thanks for posting this! I've also found the software you use to process makes a difference too. I use darktabe in a scene-reffered work flow. It opens up the dynamic range even further. Lightroom and all of the other programs use a display-reffered work flow, which has less latitude at the processing stage.
The price difference does not only go in to dynamic range differences. With the A7s you definitely get more full frame advantages, such as no cropping, better vibration compensation, better high iso performance etc. but it’s a good advise for those who only aiming for higher dynamic ranges. Thanks for sharing.
@@fintonmainz7845 try using a 35mm on FF vs APSC. you'll get tighter perspective on APSC.of course assuming the distance between you and the object is fixed.
I love my Canon R7, but recently I toyed with the idea of replacing it with the R6 mark II. In other words, I am falling for this crap too. So thank you for reminding me that I do not need a FF camera.
Great video! At the end of the day it’s all about the person behind the camera who understands the fundamentals of photography and what he/she is going after.
There is over 1 stop difference in DR (all other things being equal). You may not notice that in many cases at base ISO, but at high ISO 1 stop difference is huge. Case in point, I went to a museum with Fuji and 10-24/4 lens, ended up with a lot of noisy pictures. The same museum with Nikon Z6 and also F/4 lens -- much cleaner pictures. Difference light and day.
This is not DR you’re talking about 1 extra stop of light. You’re not using the fuji correct or maybe you have a very old fuji. I have used my fujis in very low lit restaurants where they use candle light and I get incredible results.
@@adnan_velic the difference between APS-C and FF is a bit more than 1 stop, that's just physics. Fuji has significant noise reduction in their jpegs, and most x-trans demosaicing algorithms introduce noise reduction as well, the famous 3-pass algorithm that manages extract as much detail as 1-pass for Bayer also shows as much noise as Bayer. Bottom line there are no miracles, and Fuji definitely is not breaking the laws of physics.
Nice video! I’ve shot high contrast or low light jobs with my workhorse Sony A7iii, a couple of Fujifilms (x-pro 1 and x-t2), and my old mediocre Canon T2i. All in RAW. The dynamic range is really close on all of them, but the Sony FF files are always a hair cleaner. To me, it seems noise and having to use slightly higher ISOs is a bigger problem than dynamic range. ;)
Been pro photographer for over 30 years, just entering the world of video. But the thing is, ok, dynamic range.... get a Nikon D500 and it has brutal DR, quite comparable to the D5 or D6. The main difference, in my experience, is not about DR but about noise in low light, in that matter full frame it's (usually) way above APS-C specially if you go to the top end, less MPX, much better pixel quality. Few years ago i tested it between a D750, D810 and D3 (yeah, 10 years older) and at pixel level the D3 outperformed both, simply because of the sensor cells are way larger, so better pixel resolution and less noise, even having "lesser" dynamic range than the newer less expensive models and the 12 bit color makes a huge difference
There is this thing on Sony that is dynamic range optimizer for JPG's, it let's you lift shadows for JPG before it's written to card. Think canon should have similar setting somewhere. Anyway it let's you get JPG's with good dynamic range in case you don't wanna do edits later. You can use DRO even in video at least for Sony, checked it both on FF and APS-C body, just set this to proper lvl depending on scene you have to capture. Ofc RAW's for photos and Log for video will be better still, but you don't always need it, or don't always want to go through editing process, just another tool added to the box.
Thank you. Companies protect more expensive full frame models giving cheaper apsc low quality settings. If canon wanted M50 which is my main camera now, could have autofocus in 4k videos but they intentionally hammered it to protect their more expensive models. That is the reason my next camera will be most likely Sony as they put more advanced specs even to budget cameras.
I agree. I'm a canon M50 and a canon RP but I'm switching to sony due to noise. He's terrible at the canon. The Canon RP has more noise in the video than the Sony RX100 VI which it also owns. I have tried it at events. Sony is super !!!
Nice vid and comparison. But you only used ISO 100. As you increase the ISO the recovery of shadows will become increasingly worse in the APS-C sensor than in the full frame.
The absolute best explanation I have seen so far for the benefits of upgrading to Full Frame ! Great job ! I hope a lot of beginners and enthusiasts see this, and save a bunch of money; especially if all they do is mostly photography.
A controlled environment like this you can minimize the problem. But when you get to difficult scenarios where light is bad and you absolutely no control with the lighting, you'll eventually hit a wall with that apsc. And I learned that the hard way. Videos like this cause people to spend more by first spending money on apsc, then end up buying spending again on a full frame because they max out the capabilities of their apsc...
@@LoFiAxolotl ''professional photographers'' by definition can be subjective. When I mention APSC, I take into account all of the features that the camera offers. Not just photography. TBH when it comes to photography it's the lens that matters the most.
Great video for beginners!! Only, the 'dynamic range' difference in your video test is not actually due to dynamic range; it's because of sony's better image processing of the frames to extract more dynamic range out of the sensor while the canon basically flattens them as they come. Newer/more expensive cameras have (unsurprisingly) more processing power while older cameras often did worse than smartphones.
I thought that was an awesome video with a lot of great information in it. I have a M50 and I love it for photos and for the video I shoot, it's not bad. I was thinking about upgrading to a Canon R6, but the money I would have to spend is crazy, especially for the lenses... for right now, I will hone my skills with the M50 and use the money I save to get a couple of more lenses for the M50. Great Job Joris!!
Dynamic range decreases as you push for higher ISOs. You compared sony and canon @iso100, but I guarantee that the difference will be more dramatic at higher ISOs. And in many cases you will be using higher ISOs on apsc, to compensate for generally slower aperture lenses, and 1.5 multiplied focal, which will require higher shutter speeds. I have both Sony APSC and full frame bodies, and the difference is quite obvious to me, I mostly use my apsc body for a daylight street photography, as a small and light setup, but if I really need a good low light performance, I still use full frame.
This is making me want to watch some videos on cheap film cameras from 20+ years ago to digital cameras now. I have pics taken on a cheap Kodak with detail beyond what I see without great editing, but i haven't even looked up the difference between film and digital dr in years
One of the issues people fail to notice is not all camera settings may be tuned the same way. I took simmilar photos with the canon Eos 1300D, 80D and the Nikon D850. Later I tried the 5Dmkiv also. (All with 50mm f1.8 lenses.) The last 3 had great dynamic range while the 1300D was very unforgiving. the Nikon was brighter than the D850 by 1.5 stops at the same settings, though you could say that the settings aren't standardised somehow across manufacturers even if you use the same aperture, iso and shutterspeed. As for the 5D, the dynamic range was near if not better than the Nikon D850. Overall I'd say it depends on many things, but if you need the extra dynamic range use this video as reference and do some more research as well. You can never go wrong with mid-level and pro level cameras. With entry level though, that's a rough path tbh. Cross your fingers. Nice video Joris.💪
The reason that dynamic range is so subjective is because of noise. The point where the noise is just ugly is the point where DR is determined. Different people and different camera companies have different opinions about how much noise is too much. Personally I don't think super high DR creates a nice photo, in fact it looks weird, but it can help if you screw up your exposure.
Well explained, photos are great and when shooting videos I use lighting so the m50 works well. The eos m which is an old apsc camera has a program that you can download that enables raw videos and it looks amazing if used properly.
Great video! Canon M50 is really good for photography when you pair it with some good lenses. I use the Canon 50MM (think it's a good lens, not superb) and I like the images coming out of the camera in a studio environment. And also RAW is really good when shooting outside. As you said, the DR in M50 video is very poor in an uncontrolled lighting situation. I think you should do another video comparing Sony full frame DR with Sony Aps-c DR. Like the zv-e10 or the a6400 or something. I wonder how they would turn around in the case of video capabilities.
For me it's even more confusing.... I had the Canon FF EOS 6D Mark II - 26 megapixels....for a while, and just got a APSC EOS 90D - 32 megapixels. // The FF has a nice bokeh ring around the pictures if set right.... The APSC has the 1.6x crop factor.... which actually can be useful for certain shots. Both can use the same EF mount lenses. Different cameras for different purposes.
I don't have much money, but I have two FF and two, or really 3 crop. But they are OLD. I used to work as a portrait photographer. I can actually tell, most of the time, if a converted RAW file is from a FF or crop. BUT, I don't think most people will. I have shot and edited 100 000 of photos. I don't know, I almost never use my mirrorless APS-C. Old habits. :D
If U"re confused in between old full frame n new apsc sensor then choose the newer one...believe me the technology is becoming much n much better with the time
Does it really matter? Yes, it really matters when that dynamic range is important to your desired results. Larger formats succeed better in this regard.
@@JorisHermans Cool then, I thought you didn't and it was just a suggestion/question if you did 😅 OMG, with this video you made me double think of upgrading to Canon R (coz it's DR is kinda average and it's price higher). I've got the Nikon D7200 for the last couple of years as a main camera for stills, and in the last year I bought the M50, in order to see how the camera works for video (really newbie) and I like it! Thanks for your videos Joris!!! 🙏
Really good video, i want to buy fullframe camera because i need bigger sensor (for my 50mm lens), and the DR but its not the only reason. Thanks you bro, your video is really great 🔥
In some way you basically get what you pay for. But the examples in this video I think are not fair. Instead of the M50, I think comparison should have been made with a higher tier APS-C, like a Fuji X-T4 for example. Yes, the Sony would likely win, but in the end you're comparing two different technologies, sensors, lenses, etc.
When you underexpose and pull up shadows, are you also losing a lot of colour information? Like on an average bright day, I see so much colour in the shadows. If I do expose for the sky and pull up shadows it seems to me you might get a lot of information back but the colour is greatly desaturated compared to real life. I understand cameras are limited, but what camera body is the best for taking photographs where on a bright day you capture more nuances of colour in the sky and shadows
Your aspc camera not having shadow detail JPG is simply a matter of the sensors low light capability along with F stops not really being equal a f2 on apsc is more like a f3 on a full frame.
This 24mp sensor from Canon has amazing dynamic range. I always struggled with their 18mp sensor for landscape, in some cases the HDR from my cellphone did a better job. Then I bought a SL2 and its amazing how natural the dynamic range look, you can even have the sun on the frame and the rest of the sky is not overblown and look natural, while preserving the rest of the landscape.
Nice vid 👍 well explained to the masses. Although you are wrong with the fact that only the ff cameras get all the bells and whistles… they don’t, anymore 😊 I actually shoot vids n stills professionally both on apsc now - Blackmagic 6k pro & Fuji Xt3 respectively - (xt3 was first mirrorless to capture 10bit vid internally too so added bonus 😮) I’ve seen the same thing happen before with medium format Vs 35mm film as it did before with large format Vs medium… will u get a better overall image from a bigger sensor, well, yes but in that case , why isn’t everyone shooting on med format😂 Full frame is pretty much a dying breed anyway now in terms of ‘the future’ apart for those people who will just continue to buy full frame because it’s well, full frame. 35mm had its time. APSC Vs FF - that war has been fought and the little guy got it 📸 Btw. We’ll be having the same chat in about 7 or 8 years with apsc Vs mft Vs 1 inch with AI 🤙
That's not actually the question, but that's what every TH-cam channel THINKS it is. The question is actually if we can save money by putting a APS-C lens with a genuine Canon adapter onto a Canon full frame body, how will the results compare to using a RF lens on Canon's full frame bodies.
I made my life super easy when I switched to Fujifilm a while ago. They don't have full-frame cameras, but hi-DR 10 bit LOG APS-C and medium format cameras for the price of a full-frame ;) Okay okay, I know that's not the point of the video. Just my 2 cents :D AWESOME and HELPFUL video as usual Joris! Love your content 💯
@@unnikrishnan8437 I bought myself the X-T3 (APS-C), because I don't need a flip out screen and now I'm waiting for the GFX 50s II (Medium) to come out. The color science of Fujifilm is just outstanding!
@@professionalpotato4764 Thank you! Really intrigued about the dual gain readout! I'll sure give it a try if I can. I agree with your concern about Fuji's expensive lenses🤯
In relation to the guy you mentioned that said that the M50 had horrible dynamic range, I was just talking to a guy that claims he's a camera reviewer but he still couldn't understand the exposure triangle. So how can he review a camera without knowing about settings and how it affects images?
You are explained it so good! And your english is superb! (Dutch ppl have always been good to english!!!!!) I have tryed to find the dynamic range for my camera, a Fujifilm X-T3, but ... hmmm did not find anyting. I struggle a lot with this APC-S vs Fullframe also! - But being a man without money, I am force to use what ever I can afford. Can you show me/us a SIMPLE way to shoot bottles? There is so many option out there, and they nearly all is with very expensive gear and lot's of photoflash, gigantic photoboxes ect. Also they seems to think we ALL are doing photo or video to earn money, I just do it for FUN! I am also trying to learn little about Macro photo, like taking shoot of small indoors annoying bugs. I have to do something, to keep my tiny brain relative fresh in this crazy time with Covid!
Hallo Joris.. super nice video and clear.. i have actually a question, what about STEP dynamic range ? has every camera a different set up? if you have a video about that topic, please let me know! thanks!!
15:06 Gonna try to keep this short. Sensor Big: MF, FF, APS-C, MFT Small: 1", 2/3", 1/1.18", 1/2.5 Short answer Money: Loss leader. Cost: Resolution. Problem: ADC Range. Solution: Signal Management. Long Answer, to the big vs small. I don't think camera companies invest more money into bigger sensors. Larger sensors don't exclusively give you more dynamic range and neither does a smaller sensor and bigger sensors don't mean less noise and smaller sensors don't mean more noise BTW, I'm no expert on this topic. Big sensor's add resolution. Small sensor's add speed. If bigger sensor's are so great why have they only recently began to find there way into cinema camera's? Resolution, not dynamic range, b/c cinema camera's have had high dynamic range, but at a cost of resolution. So where does dynamic range come from? Is it the sensor? 🤔 Big businesses don't plan year to year. They plan in cycle's, 10 to 20 years. But each camera brand is usually around the same output in the consumer/prosumer market. When you look over into the professional market and no disrespect to professional photographers, but we're not spending $18k on a cinema camera and even more on supporting equipment like a movie studio. If you look back to the early days of digital cinema cameras. You could get really good dynamic range out of a 2/3" sensor which is smaller than a 1" sensor which is way smaller than a Full Frame or Super35 sensor. ADC is where Cinema and Photography split. Photographer's need low ISO for what? Slow shutter speeds and Lower apertures. Cinematographers need high ISO for what? Faster shutter speeds and Higher apertures. Cinematographers need less range between ISO and less resolution. 8.3mp is 4K and video is more forgiving than a 20x30 fine art print. High ISO doesn't mean more noise and Low ISO doesn't mean less noise or more or less dynamic range. You could have a cinema camera sitting on ISO 3200 as clean as ISO 100 and vice versa. The point is camera developer's are tweaking ADC to give us clean signals at a given ISO value. What it means is a camera developer could literally make a exclusive night sports camera to give pro shooter's clean ISO at 12,800 with 100% detail like ISO 100 and sensor size has little to do with it. The problem they're faced with is the ADC signal range and the need to not edit or grade every image. A pro sports editor would be pissed if they had to grade 50k images for the Olympics. Currently they just crop, and rotate, maybe tweak levels. Ever since they added auto levels, they don't need to unless the exposure was off. *A sports shooter can eliminate visible noise by lowering the resolution of a high megapixel file. They increased the megapixels on Pro DSLR cameras not to print bigger, but to get cleaner images when the editors reduce the file size. Just look at the Nikon D850. It's an amazing camera, #1 DSLR ever made. Crank up the ISO and it gets noisy. Take the Canon 1Dx III or Nikon D6, the #2 and #3 DSLRs all time and turn up the ISO, you'll get clean images and photosites are not the main reason why otherwise the Z9 would look like the D850 (*sensor design). * But neither can hold a candle to a D850 in dynamic range at a low ISO of 64, extendable down to ISO 32. They're all on sort of a sliding scale. What it boils down to imo is signal management and sensor design, not sensor size.
I'm going to start using "The monkey is out of the sleeve". I ordered the R7 as a B camera to my R6. I'm curious what the dynamic range on the R7 will be like.
Using raw my ancient Canon 7D gives me all the dynamic range I need. At the end of the day it's the final image that matters, I couldn't care less about what someone uses or doesn't use. "The photographer is the instrument not the camera" - Eve Arnold. The art of photography is becoming (unfortunately) the art of my camera is better than your camera. An average boring image taken on the most expensive gear possible to buy is guess what... still an average boring image. Got it yet? Or do you still think it's all about the gear 😂
I'm struggling with the banding in the sky when I shoot in cinestyle with m50. I will try and over expose the shot and see. You have any advice on this issue?
I've noticed it too. Also skintones in bright sun was a problem for cinestyle. I stopped using it for those reasons but what you could try to get rid of the banding is add some grain in post.
Oh! Your magenta light went off, I know that feeling bro, but you made a smart move by making a question and zooming in to hide the lack of that light on your footage! 👏 (Edit) Ok, just ignore what I said hahaha, you didn’t realize the light went off until a little after, but I paused the video to write this before you mention the light went off… 😮
Canon M50 for photos is really good I never had a problem with photos. Shoot raw and you will enjoy it. For video it lacks you must shoot in controlled light situations to get good image. Thanks Joris great topic
No, ND filters don’t fix low dynamic range but they help with overexposed skies and highlights or even a complete overexposed image when using wide apertures (blurred background) because they block a certain amount of light.EDIT I was using an ND filter.
I like to use circular polarizing filters to help with this. I just rotate the filter until the sky and other blown out areas tone down into good even exposure similar to the rest of the frame. Has the added benefit of eliminating reflections as well. ;) I have noticed that cheaper ones tend to darken the overall exposure too much, and nicer, more expensive ones are not as prone to this. :)
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Questions or want to add something... or maybe correct a mistake I made? Drop it in the comments👇🏻 Thanks for watching 👊🏻💥
Hey Joris, thanks for the Video… quick Question!?Do you would get a better Dynamic range if you install any flat picture profiles to the m50? Something like technicolor or similar???
@@giovannialongi you might get a tiny improvement but it brings new problems like noise in the shadows in some situations. I stopped using it and I’m always using the neitral profile now.
Sony a6100 vs m50 mii which one has more dynamic range
@@suleymanenesgokkaya4447 The Sony 👌🏻
I guarantee you that yes full frame has its advantages sometimes in certain light situations can't deny that but what I would say is the the smaller camera will get you out taking more photos that is winning
This is hands down one of the best, most easy to understand videos I've seen to date and answers a lot of my questions to do with aps-c vs full frame, and practically showing the difference. I've been a hobby photographer focused on landscape photography for years and never new that it was easier to bring back shadows than highlights.
I would like to say... All APSC users.. don't give up to create many good pictures. you still have a lot of weapon to create good art with your APSC camera. All you need is to learn more about how to take and process your photo
💯
I would never really solely on the camera for quality pictures. You need editing software. It's what the industry utilize in the work flow all the time. With software like photoshop and raw editing softwares you don't need to be so concerned about getting the exposure to high or too low, just focus on a decent middle ground and concentrate on just getting the sharp shots and fix everything else later.
Photographers take pictures, not cameras.
Great Vid Joris!
Something to add is that it also depends on what tier the camera falls in: A Basic Fullframe camera like the EOSRP will be worse than a professional aspc camera such as the Pocket 6K Pro, Fujifilm XT4 or the C70.
Godverdekke Joris, dat heb je zeer goed uitgelegd! I bought my Canon M50 half a year ago and I experiment a lot, mostly filming. I am keen on understanding my gear and you helped me again. It is crucial to understand key aspects as "dynamic range" and "field of view" when using APS-C camera's. Thanks!
Ah, en ik vind u een sympathieke vent!
The reason I sold my Canon EOS RP was the photo dynamic range is so hit and miss, got embarrassed by my wife's Samsung phone more than once lol... Got the Fuji XS10 and we're so happy with the photos it take... Realized that the worst full frame sensor is no match for the best APSC sensor
Really one of the best explanatory videos I have seen. Thank you. You will be one of the big youtubers soon, your videos are so good and you have such a fun personality! Really enjoying your videos.
I recently purchased a Fuji film XT5 and the dynamic range is as good as most for Fran cameras. I don't know how many stops it is in editing, but I shoot a lot of landscape photography and I can certainly drop the highlights in the sky and I can bring up shadows with very little loss of detail. It is an incredible feat for a 40 megapixel crop sensor camera to have such great dynamic range. I am stoked with this camera and if you're looking for a lighter camera, then this camera could be your next camera. Sorry for the promo, but it is so goo
Fuji xt4 crop sensor by Fuji beat so many full frame cameras in dynamic range, fps and so on....
Lmao hahahaha.
100% you’re right 👍🏻
It all depends on the sensor, not the size of the sensor. Of course, if you need more dynamic range than what is available in pretty much any modern digital camera, maybe you should wait for better light?
The fact that it doesn't
@@Ked778 yeap your opinion
Just can't appreciate how beautifully all the aspects are put together. Thanks for the information. Wish you the best!
Thanks for posting this! I've also found the software you use to process makes a difference too. I use darktabe in a scene-reffered work flow. It opens up the dynamic range even further. Lightroom and all of the other programs use a display-reffered work flow, which has less latitude at the processing stage.
The price difference does not only go in to dynamic range differences. With the A7s you definitely get more full frame advantages, such as no cropping, better vibration compensation, better high iso performance etc. but it’s a good advise for those who only aiming for higher dynamic ranges. Thanks for sharing.
"no cropping".
What on earth is that supposed to mean? If you want the same "crop" you move back with an apsc or closer with, so called, "full" frame.
@@fintonmainz7845 try using a 35mm on FF vs APSC. you'll get tighter perspective on APSC.of course assuming the distance between you and the object is fixed.
obviously you know nothing about focal length compression then @@fintonmainz7845
As always. Informative and simple enough for me. Thanks Joris.
One of the best videos on this topic!!!
I love my Canon R7, but recently I toyed with the idea of replacing it with the R6 mark II. In other words, I am falling for this crap too. So thank you for reminding me that I do not need a FF camera.
Great video! At the end of the day it’s all about the person behind the camera who understands the fundamentals of photography and what he/she is going after.
There is over 1 stop difference in DR (all other things being equal). You may not notice that in many cases at base ISO, but at high ISO 1 stop difference is huge. Case in point, I went to a museum with Fuji and 10-24/4 lens, ended up with a lot of noisy pictures. The same museum with Nikon Z6 and also F/4 lens -- much cleaner pictures. Difference light and day.
This is not DR you’re talking about 1 extra stop of light. You’re not using the fuji correct or maybe you have a very old fuji. I have used my fujis in very low lit restaurants where they use candle light and I get incredible results.
@@adnan_velic the difference between APS-C and FF is a bit more than 1 stop, that's just physics. Fuji has significant noise reduction in their jpegs, and most x-trans demosaicing algorithms introduce noise reduction as well, the famous 3-pass algorithm that manages extract as much detail as 1-pass for Bayer also shows as much noise as Bayer. Bottom line there are no miracles, and Fuji definitely is not breaking the laws of physics.
Nice video! I’ve shot high contrast or low light jobs with my workhorse Sony A7iii, a couple of Fujifilms (x-pro 1 and x-t2), and my old mediocre Canon T2i. All in RAW.
The dynamic range is really close on all of them, but the Sony FF files are always a hair cleaner. To me, it seems noise and having to use slightly higher ISOs is a bigger problem than dynamic range. ;)
Been pro photographer for over 30 years, just entering the world of video. But the thing is, ok, dynamic range.... get a Nikon D500 and it has brutal DR, quite comparable to the D5 or D6. The main difference, in my experience, is not about DR but about noise in low light, in that matter full frame it's (usually) way above APS-C specially if you go to the top end, less MPX, much better pixel quality. Few years ago i tested it between a D750, D810 and D3 (yeah, 10 years older) and at pixel level the D3 outperformed both, simply because of the sensor cells are way larger, so better pixel resolution and less noise, even having "lesser" dynamic range than the newer less expensive models and the 12 bit color makes a huge difference
Agreed
Awesome video Joris!
I learned a lot :) Finally dynamic range makes sense. 🤟
There is this thing on Sony that is dynamic range optimizer for JPG's, it let's you lift shadows for JPG before it's written to card. Think canon should have similar setting somewhere.
Anyway it let's you get JPG's with good dynamic range in case you don't wanna do edits later.
You can use DRO even in video at least for Sony, checked it both on FF and APS-C body, just set this to proper lvl depending on scene you have to capture.
Ofc RAW's for photos and Log for video will be better still, but you don't always need it, or don't always want to go through editing process, just another tool added to the box.
hello, what DRO setting should I use in my A&Riv camera for filmmaking. DRO Off, DRO Auto? DRO 5? thank you for your help
Canon c70 (aps-c sensor size) has more dynamic range in video than 80% of full frame camera.
Another great video! I've learned very much about dynamic range. Thanks Joris!
thank you for this my friend. always great information on your channel
In regards to Sony (That's what I use) the FF models seem to have significantly better DR than the 6000 series of cameras I have used.
I recently bought my first camera. Maybe a bit to high to start but it is a Canon EOS R6 Full Frame
Thank you. Companies protect more expensive full frame models giving cheaper apsc low quality settings. If canon wanted M50 which is my main camera now, could have autofocus in 4k videos but they intentionally hammered it to protect their more expensive models. That is the reason my next camera will be most likely Sony as they put more advanced specs even to budget cameras.
Yep, true 💥
I agree. I'm a canon M50 and a canon RP but I'm switching to sony due to noise. He's terrible at the canon. The Canon RP has more noise in the video than the Sony RX100 VI which it also owns. I have tried it at events. Sony is super !!!
@@roman9887 thank you for sharing your experience
Are full frame lenses more more expensive than aps-c ones? I want to start photography and I'm on a budget and want to buy a used 6D mark I.
Hello.
Is it worth getting Tamron 17-70 if I have already sony 16 50 kit lense and sigma 30mm for my zve10?
Thank you for this comparrison, nice to see the real photos and footage.
Nice vid and comparison. But you only used ISO 100. As you increase the ISO the recovery of shadows will become increasingly worse in the APS-C sensor than in the full frame.
Exactly
Thank you for this video, this was really useful for me!
The absolute best explanation I have seen so far for the benefits of upgrading to Full Frame !
Great job !
I hope a lot of beginners and enthusiasts see this, and save a bunch of money; especially if all they do is mostly photography.
A controlled environment like this you can minimize the problem. But when you get to difficult scenarios where light is bad and you absolutely no control with the lighting, you'll eventually hit a wall with that apsc. And I learned that the hard way. Videos like this cause people to spend more by first spending money on apsc, then end up buying spending again on a full frame because they max out the capabilities of their apsc...
@@LoFiAxolotl ''professional photographers'' by definition can be subjective. When I mention APSC, I take into account all of the features that the camera offers. Not just photography. TBH when it comes to photography it's the lens that matters the most.
"Upgrading" is a subjective term. It depends on what you are shooting. No cropping on a full frame could be a disadvantage to a bird photographer.
Great video for beginners!! Only, the 'dynamic range' difference in your video test is not actually due to dynamic range; it's because of sony's better image processing of the frames to extract more dynamic range out of the sensor while the canon basically flattens them as they come. Newer/more expensive cameras have (unsurprisingly) more processing power while older cameras often did worse than smartphones.
I thought that was an awesome video with a lot of great information in it. I have a M50 and I love it for photos and for the video I shoot, it's not bad. I was thinking about upgrading to a Canon R6, but the money I would have to spend is crazy, especially for the lenses... for right now, I will hone my skills with the M50 and use the money I save to get a couple of more lenses for the M50. Great Job Joris!!
Yeah, RF lenses are excellent but expensive indeed 🥴
Dynamic range decreases as you push for higher ISOs. You compared sony and canon @iso100, but I guarantee that the difference will be more dramatic at higher ISOs. And in many cases you will be using higher ISOs on apsc, to compensate for generally slower aperture lenses, and 1.5 multiplied focal, which will require higher shutter speeds. I have both Sony APSC and full frame bodies, and the difference is quite obvious to me, I mostly use my apsc body for a daylight street photography, as a small and light setup, but if I really need a good low light performance, I still use full frame.
This is making me want to watch some videos on cheap film cameras from 20+ years ago to digital cameras now. I have pics taken on a cheap Kodak with detail beyond what I see without great editing, but i haven't even looked up the difference between film and digital dr in years
One of the issues people fail to notice is not all camera settings may be tuned the same way.
I took simmilar photos with the canon Eos 1300D, 80D and the Nikon D850. Later I tried the 5Dmkiv also. (All with 50mm f1.8 lenses.)
The last 3 had great dynamic range while the 1300D was very unforgiving.
the Nikon was brighter than the D850 by 1.5 stops at the same settings, though you could say that the settings aren't standardised somehow across manufacturers even if you use the same aperture, iso and shutterspeed.
As for the 5D, the dynamic range was near if not better than the Nikon D850.
Overall I'd say it depends on many things, but if you need the extra dynamic range use this video as reference and do some more research as well. You can never go wrong with mid-level and pro level cameras. With entry level though, that's a rough path tbh. Cross your fingers.
Nice video Joris.💪
ISO isn't even standardized among cameras from the same manufacturer, just as f stops aren't the same from lens to lens.
Great video….yet again. Thanks for sharing Joris 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇬🇧
The reason that dynamic range is so subjective is because of noise. The point where the noise is just ugly is the point where DR is determined. Different people and different camera companies have different opinions about how much noise is too much. Personally I don't think super high DR creates a nice photo, in fact it looks weird, but it can help if you screw up your exposure.
I agree 100%
Well explained, photos are great and when shooting videos I use lighting so the m50 works well. The eos m which is an old apsc camera has a program that you can download that enables raw videos and it looks amazing if used properly.
Do you mean the cinestyle profile?
No, he means Magic Lantern.
I now really get their difference, thanks bro 🙏
Great video! Canon M50 is really good for photography when you pair it with some good lenses. I use the Canon 50MM (think it's a good lens, not superb) and I like the images coming out of the camera in a studio environment. And also RAW is really good when shooting outside. As you said, the DR in M50 video is very poor in an uncontrolled lighting situation. I think you should do another video comparing Sony full frame DR with Sony Aps-c DR. Like the zv-e10 or the a6400 or something. I wonder how they would turn around in the case of video capabilities.
Sony! Are you reading this? I need an a6400 and a ZV-E10 asap! 😄
@@JorisHermans ***visible confusion on Sony headquarters***
Great Video! Thanks Joris!👍🏼😎
on the point! Thank you. I have the EOS M50 mii and always thinking about full frame. But you are right;-) is it worth to spend all this money 🙂
is the 80d a good camera to start with? and what low end lens can you suggest for me please. i do have the 50mm ef lens
For me it's even more confusing.... I had the Canon FF EOS 6D Mark II - 26 megapixels....for a while, and just got a APSC EOS 90D - 32 megapixels. // The FF has a nice bokeh ring around the pictures if set right.... The APSC has the 1.6x crop factor.... which actually can be useful for certain shots. Both can use the same EF mount lenses. Different cameras for different purposes.
I don't have much money, but I have two FF and two, or really 3 crop. But they are OLD. I used to work as a portrait photographer. I can actually tell, most of the time, if a converted RAW file is from a FF or crop. BUT, I don't think most people will. I have shot and edited 100 000 of photos. I don't know, I almost never use my mirrorless APS-C. Old habits. :D
Thanks for the explanation bro, help me a lot. 🙏🏻 i guess going to have full frame soon 🤲🏻
Joris the man 🔥🔥🔥🔥
👊🏻💥
I think you can use magic lantern to unlock more features in some canon's dslr
sony a7ii or nikon d7500 very confused to choose both for photography? Anyone here can recomended it?
If U"re confused in between old full frame n new apsc sensor then choose the newer one...believe me the technology is becoming much n much better with the time
So many people are obsessed with dynamic range nowadays. In the old days, the way we handled dynamic range was to wait for proper light.
Does it really matter? Yes, it really matters when that dynamic range is important to your desired results. Larger formats succeed better in this regard.
Joris, which camera ecosystem is the best in 2023.
Love the explanation bro and also the jokes. Keep the good content coming.
On the 12:00 clip I think you could use an ND filter in order to achieve a better look.
I think we are talking only about DR here..
No, an ND filter doesn’t solve low DR. It just allows you to open up the aperture by lowering the exposure. EDIT I was using an ND filter by the way 😉
@@JorisHermans Cool then, I thought you didn't and it was just a suggestion/question if you did 😅 OMG, with this video you made me double think of upgrading to Canon R (coz it's DR is kinda average and it's price higher). I've got the Nikon D7200 for the last couple of years as a main camera for stills, and in the last year I bought the M50, in order to see how the camera works for video (really newbie) and I like it! Thanks for your videos Joris!!! 🙏
Really good video, i want to buy fullframe camera because i need bigger sensor (for my 50mm lens), and the DR but its not the only reason. Thanks you bro, your video is really great 🔥
Ok, this is the video! Thanks!
Fujifilm is the only true way to quality ASP-C including professional camera bodies and lenses.
In some way you basically get what you pay for. But the examples in this video I think are not fair. Instead of the M50, I think comparison should have been made with a higher tier APS-C, like a Fuji X-T4 for example. Yes, the Sony would likely win, but in the end you're comparing two different technologies, sensors, lenses, etc.
There is huge difference specially with video not to mention sony A7S iii is a video camera not meant to capture stills
When you underexpose and pull up shadows, are you also losing a lot of colour information? Like on an average bright day, I see so much colour in the shadows. If I do expose for the sky and pull up shadows it seems to me you might get a lot of information back but the colour is greatly desaturated compared to real life.
I understand cameras are limited, but what camera body is the best for taking photographs where on a bright day you capture more nuances of colour in the sky and shadows
Your aspc camera not having shadow detail JPG is simply a matter of the sensors low light capability along with F stops not really being equal a f2 on apsc is more like a f3 on a full frame.
Right on. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
This 24mp sensor from Canon has amazing dynamic range. I always struggled with their 18mp sensor for landscape, in some cases the HDR from my cellphone did a better job. Then I bought a SL2 and its amazing how natural the dynamic range look, you can even have the sun on the frame and the rest of the sky is not overblown and look natural, while preserving the rest of the landscape.
Eos rebel sr2?
@@guardianobserver6593 I think he means Leica SL2
@@Camaro-it8ht Yeahh! Me too. One day he will realise what he did.
Nice vid 👍 well explained to the masses. Although you are wrong with the fact that only the ff cameras get all the bells and whistles… they don’t, anymore 😊
I actually shoot vids n stills professionally both on apsc now - Blackmagic 6k pro & Fuji Xt3 respectively - (xt3 was first mirrorless to capture 10bit vid internally too so added bonus 😮) I’ve seen the same thing happen before with medium format Vs 35mm film as it did before with large format Vs medium… will u get a better overall image from a bigger sensor, well, yes but in that case , why isn’t everyone shooting on med format😂
Full frame is pretty much a dying breed anyway now in terms of ‘the future’ apart for those people who will just continue to buy full frame because it’s well, full frame. 35mm had its time. APSC Vs FF - that war has been fought and the little guy got it 📸
Btw. We’ll be having the same chat in about 7 or 8 years with apsc Vs mft Vs 1 inch with AI 🤙
That's not actually the question, but that's what every TH-cam channel THINKS it is.
The question is actually if we can save money by putting a APS-C lens with a genuine Canon adapter onto a Canon full frame body, how will the results compare to using a RF lens on Canon's full frame bodies.
Great video! 🎉 absolute subscribe you cause of this video, thanks for explanation. Have used 6400 for long time, and want to switch to ZV-E1😊
ZV-E1 looks great, man! You probably won't need a new camera after that for a loooong time 🔥
I made my life super easy when I switched to Fujifilm a while ago. They don't have full-frame cameras, but hi-DR 10 bit LOG APS-C and medium format cameras for the price of a full-frame ;)
Okay okay, I know that's not the point of the video. Just my 2 cents :D AWESOME and HELPFUL video as usual Joris! Love your content 💯
Which one did you buy?
@@unnikrishnan8437 I bought myself the X-T3 (APS-C), because I don't need a flip out screen and now I'm waiting for the GFX 50s II (Medium) to come out.
The color science of Fujifilm is just outstanding!
@@geraldjoehri I never got a chance to try Fujifilm😆, but I like Fujifilm cameras and I appreciate their effort to keep the fuji film stock look.
@@professionalpotato4764 Thank you! Really intrigued about the dual gain readout! I'll sure give it a try if I can. I agree with your concern about Fuji's expensive lenses🤯
@@professionalpotato4764
Your only concern? One start from the lenses he/she will use and then decide the body. Not the contrary.
In relation to the guy you mentioned that said that the M50 had horrible dynamic range, I was just talking to a guy that claims he's a camera reviewer but he still couldn't understand the exposure triangle. So how can he review a camera without knowing about settings and how it affects images?
Amazing now i understand
You are explained it so good! And your english is superb!
(Dutch ppl have always been good to english!!!!!)
I have tryed to find the dynamic range for my camera, a Fujifilm X-T3, but ... hmmm did not find anyting.
I struggle a lot with this APC-S vs Fullframe also!
- But being a man without money, I am force to use what ever I can afford.
Can you show me/us a SIMPLE way to shoot bottles?
There is so many option out there, and they nearly all is with very expensive gear and lot's of photoflash, gigantic photoboxes ect.
Also they seems to think we ALL are doing photo or video to earn money, I just do it for FUN!
I am also trying to learn little about Macro photo, like taking shoot of small indoors annoying bugs.
I have to do something, to keep my tiny brain relative fresh in this crazy time with Covid!
Thank you!
Hallo Joris.. super nice video and clear.. i have actually a question, what about STEP dynamic range ? has every camera a different set up? if you have a video about that topic, please let me know! thanks!!
Whats your intro track bro ? Its sounds really cool
How can stadnsrt and slog, if you take cinestyle or c-log
15:06
Gonna try to keep this short.
Sensor
Big: MF, FF, APS-C, MFT
Small: 1", 2/3", 1/1.18", 1/2.5
Short answer
Money: Loss leader.
Cost: Resolution.
Problem: ADC Range.
Solution: Signal Management.
Long Answer, to the big vs small.
I don't think camera companies invest more money into bigger sensors. Larger sensors don't exclusively give you more dynamic range and neither does a smaller sensor and bigger sensors don't mean less noise and smaller sensors don't mean more noise
BTW, I'm no expert on this topic.
Big sensor's add resolution.
Small sensor's add speed.
If bigger sensor's are so great why have they only recently began to find there way into cinema camera's? Resolution, not dynamic range, b/c cinema camera's have had high dynamic range, but at a cost of resolution.
So where does dynamic range come from? Is it the sensor? 🤔
Big businesses don't plan year to year. They plan in cycle's, 10 to 20 years. But each camera brand is usually around the same output in the consumer/prosumer market.
When you look over into the professional market and no disrespect to professional photographers, but we're not spending $18k on a cinema camera and even more on supporting equipment like a movie studio. If you look back to the early days of digital cinema cameras. You could get really good dynamic range out of a 2/3" sensor which is smaller than a 1" sensor which is way smaller than a Full Frame or Super35 sensor.
ADC is where Cinema and Photography split.
Photographer's need low ISO for what? Slow shutter speeds and Lower apertures.
Cinematographers need high ISO for what? Faster shutter speeds and Higher apertures. Cinematographers need less range between ISO and less resolution. 8.3mp is 4K and video is more forgiving than a 20x30 fine art print.
High ISO doesn't mean more noise and Low ISO doesn't mean less noise or more or less dynamic range. You could have a cinema camera sitting on ISO 3200 as clean as ISO 100 and vice versa.
The point is camera developer's are tweaking ADC to give us clean signals at a given ISO value. What it means is a camera developer could literally make a exclusive night sports camera to give pro shooter's clean ISO at 12,800 with 100% detail like ISO 100 and sensor size has little to do with it. The problem they're faced with is the ADC signal range and the need to not edit or grade every image. A pro sports editor would be pissed if they had to grade 50k images for the Olympics. Currently they just crop, and rotate, maybe tweak levels. Ever since they added auto levels, they don't need to unless the exposure was off.
*A sports shooter can eliminate visible noise by lowering the resolution of a high megapixel file. They increased the megapixels on Pro DSLR cameras not to print bigger, but to get cleaner images when the editors reduce the file size.
Just look at the Nikon D850. It's an amazing camera, #1 DSLR ever made. Crank up the ISO and it gets noisy. Take the Canon 1Dx III or Nikon D6, the #2 and #3 DSLRs all time and turn up the ISO, you'll get clean images and photosites are not the main reason why otherwise the Z9 would look like the D850 (*sensor design). * But neither can hold a candle to a D850 in dynamic range at a low ISO of 64, extendable down to ISO 32.
They're all on sort of a sliding scale.
What it boils down to imo is signal management and sensor design, not sensor size.
Nikon d700 vs fuji xt20 ? Choice will be
The first blackmagic pocket cinema camera has a crop of 2.88 and 13 stops of dynamic range.
My Nikon d7200 and d5300 wipe the floor with my Canon EOS M, 6dii and 7dii at lower ISO settings. At the higher ISO end the 6dii is on top.
I'm going to start using "The monkey is out of the sleeve". I ordered the R7 as a B camera to my R6. I'm curious what the dynamic range on the R7 will be like.
Any word about using APS-C using Metabones with EFs lens, maybe Primes?
Superb review ! TRUE opinion. :-)
You are wonderful, my brother. FF is a scam. Dynamic range is what makes a difference.
Nice explanation brother 👌👌
Using raw my ancient Canon 7D gives me all the dynamic range I need. At the end of the day it's the final image that matters, I couldn't care less about what someone uses or doesn't use. "The photographer is the instrument not the camera" - Eve Arnold. The art of photography is becoming (unfortunately) the art of my camera is better than your camera. An average boring image taken on the most expensive gear possible to buy is guess what... still an average boring image. Got it yet? Or do you still think it's all about the gear 😂
What is the dynamic range of Canon 200d mark2
I'm struggling with the banding in the sky when I shoot in cinestyle with m50. I will try and over expose the shot and see. You have any advice on this issue?
I've noticed it too. Also skintones in bright sun was a problem for cinestyle. I stopped using it for those reasons but what you could try to get rid of the banding is add some grain in post.
@@JorisHermans I will try that.
Subscribed 😋🥰 very good comparison 😍
Welcome! 😎
@@JorisHermans 🥰🥰 thank you ❤️
Oh! Your magenta light went off, I know that feeling bro, but you made a smart move by making a question and zooming in to hide the lack of that light on your footage! 👏
(Edit) Ok, just ignore what I said hahaha, you didn’t realize the light went off until a little after, but I paused the video to write this before you mention the light went off… 😮
It means you're paying more attention than most people 😉 🙏
@@JorisHermans thanks for taking your time to reply 👌
Hi Jores i want to know Dynamic range of Nikon Z5 . I googled but there is no information.
Did some research and it seems like it's close to 13 stops at ISO 100. Excellent 👍🏻
@@JorisHermans Thanks Jores for doing Research tysm 👍👍
Canon M50 for photos is really good I never had a problem with photos. Shoot raw and you will enjoy it.
For video it lacks you must shoot in controlled light situations to get good image.
Thanks Joris great topic
I see so many photographers both pro and passionate hobbyist burying themselves in debt to get the latest and greatest and it's just sad.
a DaVinci/Fusion VFX Tutorial would be fine ;-) for next videos
Much love 🥰
12:05 would an Nd filter help with dynamic range? Been thinking about picking one up.
No, ND filters don’t fix low dynamic range but they help with overexposed skies and highlights or even a complete overexposed image when using wide apertures (blurred background) because they block a certain amount of light.EDIT I was using an ND filter.
I like to use circular polarizing filters to help with this. I just rotate the filter until the sky and other blown out areas tone down into good even exposure similar to the rest of the frame. Has the added benefit of eliminating reflections as well. ;)
I have noticed that cheaper ones tend to darken the overall exposure too much, and nicer, more expensive ones are not as prone to this. :)
I upgraded from FF to MFT haven’t looked back