It’s going to sound silly, but describing the military as a cult was something I’ve never considered, and yet it makes perfect sense. My husband is a retired army officer (he retired many years before I met him). We were once on base for one reason or another, and in the Exchange there was a Grunt Style store. One of the advertisements was a baby in a carrier wearing combat gear, captioned something to the effect of “born to be a warrior.” It may be the most disturbing image I’ve ever seen posted in public.
This is great...just stumbled on this! Subscribed! The point you make about "social reinforcement" is HUGE...without complicit accomplices, whether willingly or not, these manipulative people/exploitative organizations wouldn't have any particular influence. They must be able to insulate themselves from scrutiny, and accountability among the group by using hierarchical structures..so there needs to be accomplices, who are towing the line, repeating the slogans and all that. Its similar to the predictable childish exclusionary behavior we've all experienced on the playground, just scaled up and legitimized with slick names and branding.
I attended a church, which did not begin it's name with a "the" but it did have a unique name that was "edgy" leadership would often make statements like "now we know we're not the best church, but *wink* *wink* *chuckle* yeeeah.... " And that attitude was quickly transferred to the members... And behind closed doors other churches were often talked about with disdain. Usually it began with legitimate criticism, but then the comments would continue beyond, and I would join in, and I bought in to the unsaid message that we were probably the best, everyone should want to join us.
I agree that it's harder to discern what the Sacred Assumption is in a non-religious cult, but it's still there. Every roleplay Sim in Second Life is run like a cult. After I left the first one I was in, which was a cyberpunk Sim, I likened it to a fish bowl made out of a 1-way mirror. When you're on the inside, the city is reflected back to players, seemingly into infinity, and everyone begins to believe that they are not just the center of the universe, but the sum totality of the universe. There is nothing outside of it. To leave would be like dying. People abandoned their real-life activities and friends to spend more time with the cult. One of my friends almost unalived herself when she was banned. She felt like she was losing her entire universe and had nothing left to live for. When you're outside of it, the fish bowl seems tiny and insignificant. Pathetic, even. But when players are inside that group, they feel so important. They began to claim ownership of things that weren't theirs, like the Tron franchise and the planet Mars. Seriously not kidding, they thought they owned Mars in an ideological way. They 'owned' the concept of Mars and everything that went with it. (I have the feeling that's what's going on with Elon Musk, too.) It took me so long to finally figure out it was a cult. For years I couldn't figure out why everyone who joined felt like they owned the city and were so devastated when they had to leave.
If it's ok to go back to a previous video where you made the point that community oriented work often creates cult cultures, I'm wondering what you'd suggest to prevent that while also fostering inclusive community oriented work and perspectives. How do we create a healthier, more communal society where we take better care of each other and the environment while also addressing the unhealthy aspects of community building and maintenance as they arise?
Well, not the expert so take this with a grain of salt if not a bucketful, cults are all about labor. When you value labor correctly (ie: not asking people to take on more than the load they agreed to or overlooking work that has to get done in order to do anything else like housework) the chances for people to take advantage of the vulnerability in others shrink. Sort of like the whole realization that the “Renaissance man” didn’t have to clean, cook, or do child rearing and that’s why there were so many things they could study. Open group communication in a non-formal setting can also help, be it a board where people anonymously post their complaints/thoughts or a in person round table with snacks and comfy pillows. There’s no one way to solve all problems nor one perspective to look at a situation.
The UFO cult example literally describes the founding of the Seventh Day Adventist church after the Great Disappointment on October 22, 1844 when the world did not end. Since then the church has doubled down, continuing to this day to insist they did not get the date wrong but rather the prophetic event that was supposed to happen (even though historical and biblical academic study easily proves this wrong) 😂🙃.
"the marriage" in my abusive relationship. Or, more honestly, "the disabled husband" for whom I must sacrifice without end because he needs to be taken care of and I loved him 🤮
Been there. Except he wasn't disabled, he was just always "down on his luck" (by intentional design) because "the world was out to get him" and he needed someone to take care of him. 🤮
I was in a belly dance cult. I got out before it got really bad. Our friends that didn't quit their jobs and only talked to us if we were willing to pay for their new life coaching businesses.
Cults of Personality: an example would be in my opinion ~ the cult around Leonard Peltier. He claims to be a political prisoner but was involved in criminal activity before he became involved with the American Indian Movement, continued criminal activity while involved with A.I.M. and was also allegedly involved in the death of Annie Mae Pictou Aquash, a Mikmaq woman from Nova Scotia. Her story was just on Hulu. The people who believe in Peltier and that includes, celebrities, academics and Native men who enact their version of the "Bro Code" and refuse to believe anything negative about him because his name brings a lot of publicity and fame because they hold protests outside of the White House and other activism. Cognitive dissonance and denial is very key to this group. Annie Mae is considered a Murdered and Missing Indigeous Woman (MMIW) which is something people in Leonard Peltier's Bro Code group advocate for except when it comes to her. The hypocrisy is baffling. My (late) mother was involved with AIM at that time and didn't have any time for them after her partner was murdered in jail in South Dakota.
Pedophilia, she has to adjust how she says it to not get flagged on tiktok, and then she uploads to TH-cam which has similar rules for monetized content. She just can’t use the word.
Hi Daniella. One, not a fan of Harvard. Reasons too long for here but nothing to do with application rejection. It is experienced base. Just disclosure. That said, I wandered around as a new watcher. I see one of the major control points of cults is control of language, forced language and prohibited language. I came across you listing pronouns….and saying you welcome sincere questions. So: why disclose? It is very insider/outsider, us/them but more importantly it sets a standard of direct disclosure of something very private and easy to weaponize: sexual choice identity. We cannot change our birth biological reality completely although we can and do modify it over our lifetime. The pronoun identity is a choice and by forcing disclosure, a huge power move in itself, it gives predators two levers to pull against any target. Not a wise approach is it? I am honestly surprised you haven’t thought of this. It is a power demand and in your disclosure you are validating the requirement. Your choice of course. Please consider this through the lens of power. I left a church group I was very lightly, and I do mean very lightly, tied to when this became a standard. I spoke about my concern privately to the Radcliffe educated pastor and was patronized and basically ignored. Not a single response to any question, just propaganda on repeat. This is in a Boston area historically famous town in a very famous church so early on I spotted agenda. My underlying life rule so to speak is trust and verify. It isn’t about being distrustful it is about knowing most people are well intentioned but make mistakes, knowing propaganda is real, knowing we don’t really know how to get along without force and violence somewhere in the power structure(which be necessary in some form at the community/society level but what kind, how much and how to manage who and what are yet to be adequately considered let alone sorted) and knowing the really skilled harmful manipulators are very hard to spot. Trust and verify. Total side note, I knit too.
Where does she demand anyone share their pronouns? You spend paragraphs fighting a strawman that you have made up about her. Choosing to share her own pronouns doesn't not force you to do the same, especially in a setting like this where you are passively consuming her content & not interacting with her where you might be expected to respond. Even then, someone saying their pronouns doesn't give them power over you, you can choose to share what you want. Also gender =/= "sexual choice identity" by which I assume you mean sexuality? Those are two seperate things and are not a choice.
@ I’m reasonably certain she is quite capable of defending herself. I said I wandered around and I did. I never said she demanded I share. I did point out the sharing of pronouns can be coercive, because it can be. Setting norms establishes power, can we agree on this? As for what is or is not an independent choice…the internet itself is not yet able to sort out free will and nature/nurture and how DNA works. There truly is much we do not know. What we do know is that balancing power, managing political freedom while preserving peace and meeting basic human life needs is very much a complicated, imperfect work in progress.
@1GoodWoman Then introducing yourself by your name is establishing power and we should do away with that too? I'm not saying it's not true that it sets a normal but why be critical of that one norm and not all the others?
@@Teajay21 Power is obviously complex. I am cautious about compelled speech that can disclose private information. There are plenty of norms I have and will continue to both identify and sometimes question. One thought I have is that the possible negative outcomes of pronoun disclosure as a norm are generally not even in consideration in the larger conversations, at least so far as I have encountered.
@1GoodWoman There is no compelled speech here anymore than there is in introducing yourself by your name. This isn't round table where they've demanded you did lose your pronouns, its a woman choosing to share hers on the internet.
It’s going to sound silly, but describing the military as a cult was something I’ve never considered, and yet it makes perfect sense. My husband is a retired army officer (he retired many years before I met him). We were once on base for one reason or another, and in the Exchange there was a Grunt Style store. One of the advertisements was a baby in a carrier wearing combat gear, captioned something to the effect of “born to be a warrior.” It may be the most disturbing image I’ve ever seen posted in public.
This is great...just stumbled on this! Subscribed!
The point you make about "social reinforcement" is HUGE...without complicit accomplices, whether willingly or not, these manipulative people/exploitative organizations wouldn't have any particular influence.
They must be able to insulate themselves from scrutiny, and accountability among the group by using hierarchical structures..so there needs to be accomplices, who are towing the line, repeating the slogans and all that.
Its similar to the predictable childish exclusionary behavior we've all experienced on the playground, just scaled up and legitimized with slick names and branding.
I attended a church, which did not begin it's name with a "the" but it did have a unique name that was "edgy" leadership would often make statements like "now we know we're not the best church, but *wink* *wink* *chuckle* yeeeah.... " And that attitude was quickly transferred to the members... And behind closed doors other churches were often talked about with disdain. Usually it began with legitimate criticism, but then the comments would continue beyond, and I would join in, and I bought in to the unsaid message that we were probably the best, everyone should want to join us.
I agree that it's harder to discern what the Sacred Assumption is in a non-religious cult, but it's still there. Every roleplay Sim in Second Life is run like a cult. After I left the first one I was in, which was a cyberpunk Sim, I likened it to a fish bowl made out of a 1-way mirror. When you're on the inside, the city is reflected back to players, seemingly into infinity, and everyone begins to believe that they are not just the center of the universe, but the sum totality of the universe. There is nothing outside of it. To leave would be like dying. People abandoned their real-life activities and friends to spend more time with the cult. One of my friends almost unalived herself when she was banned. She felt like she was losing her entire universe and had nothing left to live for. When you're outside of it, the fish bowl seems tiny and insignificant. Pathetic, even. But when players are inside that group, they feel so important. They began to claim ownership of things that weren't theirs, like the Tron franchise and the planet Mars. Seriously not kidding, they thought they owned Mars in an ideological way. They 'owned' the concept of Mars and everything that went with it. (I have the feeling that's what's going on with Elon Musk, too.) It took me so long to finally figure out it was a cult. For years I couldn't figure out why everyone who joined felt like they owned the city and were so devastated when they had to leave.
If it's ok to go back to a previous video where you made the point that community oriented work often creates cult cultures, I'm wondering what you'd suggest to prevent that while also fostering inclusive community oriented work and perspectives. How do we create a healthier, more communal society where we take better care of each other and the environment while also addressing the unhealthy aspects of community building and maintenance as they arise?
Well, not the expert so take this with a grain of salt if not a bucketful, cults are all about labor. When you value labor correctly (ie: not asking people to take on more than the load they agreed to or overlooking work that has to get done in order to do anything else like housework) the chances for people to take advantage of the vulnerability in others shrink. Sort of like the whole realization that the “Renaissance man” didn’t have to clean, cook, or do child rearing and that’s why there were so many things they could study. Open group communication in a non-formal setting can also help, be it a board where people anonymously post their complaints/thoughts or a in person round table with snacks and comfy pillows. There’s no one way to solve all problems nor one perspective to look at a situation.
Avoiding having a leader would probably be imperative to that
@AuntieMamies Functionally, I don't think that would work. Leading is a job, not a privilege. Unless you make it one.
The Firm - British Royal Family
100% Exactlee
The UFO cult example literally describes the founding of the Seventh Day Adventist church after the Great Disappointment on October 22, 1844 when the world did not end. Since then the church has doubled down, continuing to this day to insist they did not get the date wrong but rather the prophetic event that was supposed to happen (even though historical and biblical academic study easily proves this wrong) 😂🙃.
"the marriage" in my abusive relationship. Or, more honestly, "the disabled husband" for whom I must sacrifice without end because he needs to be taken care of and I loved him 🤮
Been there. Except he wasn't disabled, he was just always "down on his luck" (by intentional design) because "the world was out to get him" and he needed someone to take care of him. 🤮
Thank you for this. Very eye opening.
Couldn't agree more.
That's is a thought-stopping top though, where can I find one like it?
I was in a belly dance cult. I got out before it got really bad. Our friends that didn't quit their jobs and only talked to us if we were willing to pay for their new life coaching businesses.
Cults of Personality: an example would be in my opinion ~ the cult around Leonard Peltier. He claims to be a political prisoner but was involved in criminal activity before he became involved with the American Indian Movement, continued criminal activity while involved with A.I.M. and was also allegedly involved in the death of Annie Mae Pictou Aquash, a Mikmaq woman from Nova Scotia. Her story was just on Hulu. The people who believe in Peltier and that includes, celebrities, academics and Native men who enact their version of the "Bro Code" and refuse to believe anything negative about him because his name brings a lot of publicity and fame because they hold protests outside of the White House and other activism. Cognitive dissonance and denial is very key to this group. Annie Mae is considered a Murdered and Missing Indigeous Woman (MMIW) which is something people in Leonard Peltier's Bro Code group advocate for except when it comes to her. The hypocrisy is baffling. My (late) mother was involved with AIM at that time and didn't have any time for them after her partner was murdered in jail in South Dakota.
❤
Sports team fans also give me cult vibes.
Just to be clear... what is pdfing? I think i know because of context, but i dont want to assume.
The harming of children in the most vile way; erotically.
Pedophilia, she has to adjust how she says it to not get flagged on tiktok, and then she uploads to TH-cam which has similar rules for monetized content. She just can’t use the word.
Hi Daniella. One, not a fan of Harvard. Reasons too long for here but nothing to do with application rejection. It is experienced base. Just disclosure. That said, I wandered around as a new watcher. I see one of the major control points of cults is control of language, forced language and prohibited language. I came across you listing pronouns….and saying you welcome sincere questions. So: why disclose? It is very insider/outsider, us/them but more importantly it sets a standard of direct disclosure of something very private and easy to weaponize: sexual choice identity. We cannot change our birth biological reality completely although we can and do modify it over our lifetime. The pronoun identity is a choice and by forcing disclosure, a huge power move in itself, it gives predators two levers to pull against any target. Not a wise approach is it? I am honestly surprised you haven’t thought of this. It is a power demand and in your disclosure you are validating the requirement. Your choice of course. Please consider this through the lens of power. I left a church group I was very lightly, and I do mean very lightly, tied to when this became a standard. I spoke about my concern privately to the Radcliffe educated pastor and was patronized and basically ignored. Not a single response to any question, just propaganda on repeat. This is in a Boston area historically famous town in a very famous church so early on I spotted agenda. My underlying life rule so to speak is trust and verify. It isn’t about being distrustful it is about knowing most people are well intentioned but make mistakes, knowing propaganda is real, knowing we don’t really know how to get along without force and violence somewhere in the power structure(which be necessary in some form at the community/society level but what kind, how much and how to manage who and what are yet to be adequately considered let alone sorted) and knowing the really skilled harmful manipulators are very hard to spot. Trust and verify. Total side note, I knit too.
Where does she demand anyone share their pronouns? You spend paragraphs fighting a strawman that you have made up about her. Choosing to share her own pronouns doesn't not force you to do the same, especially in a setting like this where you are passively consuming her content & not interacting with her where you might be expected to respond. Even then, someone saying their pronouns doesn't give them power over you, you can choose to share what you want.
Also gender =/= "sexual choice identity" by which I assume you mean sexuality? Those are two seperate things and are not a choice.
@ I’m reasonably certain she is quite capable of defending herself. I said I wandered around and I did. I never said she demanded I share. I did point out the sharing of pronouns can be coercive, because it can be. Setting norms establishes power, can we agree on this? As for what is or is not an independent choice…the internet itself is not yet able to sort out free will and nature/nurture and how DNA works. There truly is much we do not know. What we do know is that balancing power, managing political freedom while preserving peace and meeting basic human life needs is very much a complicated, imperfect work in progress.
@1GoodWoman Then introducing yourself by your name is establishing power and we should do away with that too? I'm not saying it's not true that it sets a normal but why be critical of that one norm and not all the others?
@@Teajay21 Power is obviously complex. I am cautious about compelled speech that can disclose private information. There are plenty of norms I have and will continue to both identify and sometimes question. One thought I have is that the possible negative outcomes of pronoun disclosure as a norm are generally not even in consideration in the larger conversations, at least so far as I have encountered.
@1GoodWoman There is no compelled speech here anymore than there is in introducing yourself by your name. This isn't round table where they've demanded you did lose your pronouns, its a woman choosing to share hers on the internet.