Thanks for watching everyone! Do check out the extended cut of my adventures down to the Hunter Street Metro Platforms here: th-cam.com/video/tvwW3JVVpfY/w-d-xo.html. And while you're there, be sure to subscribe to Building Beautifully Extra. I'm planning to use that channel more this year.
An orbital line is something we've been sorely missing for so long. I live in the inner west and barely ever travel to South Sydney because it would take over an hour to get there on public transport.
@@DarrenTaing The original vision of the Sydney Metro was as an orbital. Tallowong would be extended to St Marys and on to the new airport as a continuous line. Heading south the line would extend from the airport to Liverpool, and then through a tunnel to connect with Bankstown, completing the circle. Advantages: Travel from the new airport to the city without transferring. Transfers add extra stress to international travellers arriving at the new airport. The proposed wider airport line carriages are useless, as passengers have to transfer at St Marys, joining a second rail network they're not familiar with. Having the airport metro as a separate isolated line is an absolutely harebrained idea.
I used to live at Kingsgrove and it was an epic chore to travel to Parramatta or Homebush via rail. You could drive it in 20-30 mins but it takes 3-4x longer via rail. There's no direct bus and the Special Events buses also take 50 mins because they snake all over the place for maximum pickups. Never understood why Sydney doesn't have an internal N-S line anywhere in the network, only on the edges.
Better buses is the solution. Especially highway buses on useless highways like westconnex and northconnex. As fast as a train, no new dedicated lanes or stations, so cheaper. Orbital line is a waste of money and if ever built should be in like 2100.
I Agree this should all have been existing heavy rail from leppington to the airport and onto st Marys. This could gave created a loop service via Parramatta and Liverpool. Then a 2nd service would run Western airport to city via glenfield and Sydney airport
I agree with this, as someone living close to Miranda that often travels to Olympic park and used to travel to Campbelltown frequently (still do but just to visit family) and I can safely say all of my trips would be so much shorter if there was a line between Sutherland/hurstville and Parramatta. Sutherland would be my personal pick as it is located further away and a proposed line would have a stop in Menai and link up at Revesby easily whereas Hurstville is only 20 minutes away from Revesby not taking into account wait times. It would cut down a sutherland-Campbelltown trip from 30 minutes to under 10 minutes as well as a sutherland-Parramatta trip from 60 or so minutes to 20 or so minutes. This would also help south coast commuters get to western Sydney as the only real viable trip at the moment is a hour long bus ride from Wollongong station to Campbelltown station.
As a commuter from Hurstville, the Hurstville to Parra analogy was perfect. it's the exact same if someone from Hurstville wants to travel to Liverpool or to western Sydney where driving is just the better option. Before metro stage 2, travel to Epping or Chatswood required driving through the heavily congested King Georges Road, and I believe a metro corridor linking Strathfield to Hurstville would heavily ease congestion on this road. If you've ever driven on it past Flemington, you'll know what I mean!
When I use public transport, it’s because I don’t want to drive (don’t want to think about parking, plan on drinking, etc). Thankfully I live pretty close to buses that are decently frequent, but I can’t imagine having to drive to catch the train. Defeats the purpose of catching the train for me.
As someone who lives between Schofields and Tallawong stations, the glaring gap looks so obvious. Even the land is open and available. An elevated rail along Schofields road and South Street on to Marsden Park and beyond seems like such no brainer. It seems like such an unfortunate wasted opportunity that it wasn't built in Metro phase1.
We also need more frequent bus connections to Metro stops. It's useless having a Metro every 4 minutes but the buses still only run every 20-30 minutes. Sydenham I'm looking at you - an orbital bus to Victoria Rd would help join to multiple bus services.
Well you do already have the 410, which runs every 15min from Hurstville-Bexley North-Campsie-Burwood-Rhodes-Victoria Road-Top Ryde-Macquarie Park. That is kind of what you are talking about.
@@BigBlueMan118 The 430 bus that connects to the Marrickville side of Sydneham station has seen a huge jump in ridership but it's infrequent, cuts off early in day and is awkward to get to from the Metro (you have to walk up a hill and find it hidden across a road.) If there was a bus looping from the station around to Victoria Rd and perhaps up to Addison Rd then it would connect with the 423, 426, 428 and 355 buses to properly extend the catchment area. There's also the safety issue of walking through dark streets of Sydenham to and from evening Metro journeys. I'm sure there's a lot of other areas benefiting from local loop buses that would connect people to amenities (especially the elderly, infirm and socially isolated), and perhaps staunch the dumping of shopping trolleys on streets for kilometres around shopping centres. I've suggested as such to my council but ..."crickets".
Remember that Sydenham is getting a boost because of the train replacement buses. Once the metro is completed and operating those numbers are likely to fill out across the bankstown line stations.
I would still imagine Sydenham to be up significantly on its pre-C&SW Metro numbers, and I would expect the Bankstown line stations to go up significantly due to the much faster and more frequent service.
Completely agree about the orbital line that connects to the radial lines. RM transit has a great video explaining why orbital/circumferential lines in other cities have been so successful. In Sydney I think such a line would benefit our smaller CBDs, uni students and access to health facilities.
One thought I had was incorporating bus T-ways with light rail. A tram running on the T80 from Liverpool to Parramatta would be amazing. It doesn’t have to be tram exclusive either. Stops and right-of-way could be shared with local bus routes. I’m sue similar T-ways around Sydney could benefit from such a system too.
The station distance topic is a good one. For the longer lines, it makes sense to have the stops less frequent further out so the overall journey time isn't too slow, with stops closer together in the central area.
Another point with that station data is that Schofields and other stations of the Richmond line saw a decrease (many around 6-7%). Given Tallawong's 40% increase I'm guessing a lot of those people are driving to Tallawaong to catch the Metro instead.
Possible correction in an otherwise interesting, excellent and thought provoking video. Melbourne did previosly have orbital railways. In the early 1890s. The inner circle line and the Outer Circle Line - the chief engineer of the later was a young (not yet graduated - he still needed to pass a latin exam and other things to graduate) engineer called John Monash - you may have heard of him ;-)
Someone from Melbourne here, let me just say I’m so jealous. In NSW both sides of the political spectrum want to invest in PT. Meanwhile in Vic, our government is trying & appease everyone (transport wise). I reckon if Jacinta had her way we’d have more transit but the media & opposition would bash her for it. But it’s almost like our government is holding a double ended sword & jamming their hands onto both blades instead of just building more PT. The SRL is great but while it does have its flaws I’m still all for it (it was partially influenced by Sydney’s Metro). I personally would like an inner city connector to be built. Rebuilding the inner circle line, down to Victoria Park, then new stations in Abbotsford, Victoria Gardens SC, Barkers road area, Auburn, Goenferrie, Camberwell, converting the Alamein line, East Malvern, Chadstone, Oakleigh, Clayton, & Westall. Much like the Sydney Metro lines built to take strain off existing lines, help redevelop areas, & provide more accessible transport. I think people from Sydney forget how lucky they are to have a Metro.
Absolutely agree with you Sharath, perhaps you should be the Minister of Public Transport for NSW. The government should be building a Metro for Sydney that goes around starting from South Sydney and to the West of Sydney then through Parramatta CITY then North West and through to the North of Sydney to better connect all suburban Train Line to Metro line for interchange and inter connecting line services so that people don’t have to travel to Sydney CBD then out to the west when they can travel across and around. Thanks Sharath please do convince the government to listen. That will cost time. That will benefit everyone. ❤👋💚👏😎🇦🇺
Hey Sharath, very well produced video. A lot of work ! I use the metro more than I really have to because I can explore new places. You are better connected than most of us. Please ask them to increase the weekend metro services from 10 minutes to 8 minutes during school holidays. That’s when so many families and kids crowd into the metro. It’s incredible, yet too overcrowded on weekends during the holidays. They need to definitely increase the frequency. Keep making these great videos.
7:26 This is a similar problem at North Ryde station, which is the closest rail station to areas like Gladesville, Hunters Hill and the general Ryde area, with only a single bus route present at the station that runs from Top Ryde to Chatswood every 30 mins. The area the station currently serves is quite small given the need to cross Epping road to get to it from the suburban area, which is demonstrated in its evidently low patronage.
While i do understand that these suburbs already have a consistent bus link to the city, getting from anywhere in that area to Chatswood, the hills or north sydney via PT sucks…
And that station doesn’t have much parking either making it even more useless, not that there’s anywhere to build a car park, but more busses and new routes to north ryde would be great
Very good video! few points like to add to the current Sydney Metro. 1. Barangaroo Station - at least for now, the vast majority of users are commuters. If the exit wasn’t so far, or if it didn’t take 10 minutes just to walk to "Barangaroo," there would be a lot more people using it. 2.it is shocking that even though it has only been open for a few months, the tracks between Epping to Cherrybrook and MQU are so bumpy. This is a brand-new metro, not a railway that hasn’t been maintained for 100 years! 3. completely agree with Issue 2. In fact, the 626 isn’t even the worst. For example, the 635 runs only once an hour during off-peak times. This means that if you arrive at Cherrybrook Station just as the 635 leaves in front of you, the only options are either spending over half an hour walking home or paying more than $15 for an Uber. 4. still at Cherrybrook Station, my neighbor told me that the parking lot is always full before 7 AM… So basically, there is no option.
Re 1. Barangaroo Station is also a 8-10min walk from the Arts precinct wharfs so it's serving both commuters to the south and cast, crew and audiences of venues and also the park to the north.
And also regarding Barangaroo. When Barangaroo Central is developed, there will be a connection from the platform gate concourse through that development. So it won't seem so isolated.
Such a good breakdown of stats for the recently opened stations as well as discussing reasoning for the 2024 metro videos. Can't wait to see more content talking on the true future of Sydney Metro.
It's true - a station at the corner of Sydney Park would have been a very good idea. I think it came down to cost in the end. One original proposal didn't even have a stop at Waterloo. That was strongly argued for as it would be the key to redeveloping the entire precinct, so the cost there was justified. The cost for a second stop was considered too great - it could have added $600-800 million more.
Probably because there are existing stations (with at least one likely within walking distance of any point) that already service that area - namely Green Square, Erskineville and St Peters. Those stations also have plenty of spare capacity, so no need for a metro station to provide relief, like Gadigal does for Town hall. Also multiple and frequent bus routes in that area.
Noice ! Yeah, station spacing could be surprising, as it's comparable to the Grand Paris Express, which is an express metro expansion that comes on top of a large metro network, a cross regional express heavy metro network (RER), a tramway network, and a suburban train network. The finer services to many more catchment areas are already there, not so much in Sydney, but there's also the issue of density. A few more stations to serve more places wouldn't be too much. Anyway, the 25-year plan proposal is exciting, and I hope it will happen. It would be great for Sydney to see this come true. Greetings from Paris!
@@seunghyukjung628Maybe a line from Parriewood to Penrith like Parriewood, Pemulwuy, Prospect, Eastern Creek/Rooty Hill South (Which could be extended to Rooty Hill North, Plumpton, Marsden Park Business Park then Marsden Park), Minchinbury, Colyton, Orchard Hills (Interchange with WSA Line), South Penrith, and then Penrith in both tunnels and bridges.
metro systems are not designed for intercity journeys - the high speed rail proposal is better suited to connecting the coasts to Sydney. It's incredibly unrealistic to create a metro from the south coast or central coast to anywhere! If it were that simple, the WSA metro would also be connected to the city directly. The metro isn't about covering long distances (the current M1 line is basically 3 lines combined i.e. the 3 stages), it's more about cutting time from already achievable journeys.
A link from Epping to Parramatta would also serve people travelling from the Central Coast (and even Newcastle) to Sydney for work. Strathfield is not a bad interchange (other than the long ramps up to the platforms). But a shorter and more direct route to Parramatta from Epping would encourage more people from the Central Coast and Newcastle to seek work in Parramatta. I would also argue that Hurstville could serve the same purpose for travellers from Wollongong and the South Coast. Build a metro from Hurstville to Parramatta.
I'm a ten minute walk from Town Hall and catch to train to St Leonards for work everyday. Even thought the train station is significantly closer to my work than Crows Nest Metro, I still catch it 80% of the time because it's just so reliable and so quick. My dad lives in Epping and it's made what used to be an hour an ten minute journey (you usually end up waiting 10 minutes for a T9 service) a 40 minute trip that is never delayed. I'm moving to Wolli Creek so I plan to continue commuting via metro by transferring at Sydenham.
Have you covered the eternally 'soon' Glendale station/Lake Macquarie transport hub? Its the largest outdoor mall in the country, literally next to an old station and rail workshops. And all the major roads feed to it. Seems like the biggest gimme of a 'just build the place' in the state.
The lower north shore has two separate rail networks. Parramatta will have two separate rail networks. Not to mention ferries to both, and direct to CBD buses. Is there something about the NSW electorate of Maroubra, and specifically my area at Eastgardens that makes transport planners alergic to giving us, well, anything? I've used the CBD metro twice since opening. It's of little relevance to me. I'm stuck with the rubbish buses out here (I live 30 mins walk from Juniors L3 stop). Since the L3 opened all our direct-to-city buses were axed. As well as the much missed 400 bus.
Great video! You made an excellent point about station spacing and car-dependency and car-parking. The tighter the station spacing, the more walkable it is to the station, the less need to drive to the station and have station car parking. The wider the station spacing, the less walkable it is to the train station, the greater the need to drive to the train station and more demand for gigantic car parking lots next to the train station.
Great video Sharath! Being a train nerd myself, I love all the stats and info as well as your future proposals. Sadly, I believe the government is preoccupied with a different project at the moment: High Speed rail. It is said they’ve already started planning for a Central Coast High Speed Rail, so sorry, but it doesn’t seem like they’re thinking much about the metro at the moment.
I’m absolutely gutted I missed the Sydney Metro extension opening when I visited last year, but I’m glad that Sydney has so much real and forward looking public transport investment on the horizon, and I hope I can experience some of it for myself soon! ~ Daniel
I think it is absolutely bizarre that there is no intention of ever linking heavy rail to the new airport. Not just for passengers - you've convinced me that light rail (metro) links are sometimes better for these - but for FREIGHT. The new airport's biggest business in early decades will be freight, for which it is much better located than Mascot and will also benefit greatly from no curfew. Residents in these new suburbs will have a noise problem alright - not from planes but from B-Double trucks.
I keep looking at the metro west line and wondering why it's not better connected. There are _four_ L1 stops at Pyrmont it could've connected with, but it doesn't; it's going to require going up to street level and back down again. To travel from it to the North Shore or Kingsford Smith Airport will require changing trains at Martin Place and then _again_ at Town Hall or Central-it's silly that it doesn't have more stations in the City, especially with spare platforms available at StJames. They're spending so much money, for something so half-arsed. 🙁
Finding a car park for example Tallawong is FULL TO THE BRIM by 7am. I've seen up to 8 vehicles illegally parked and the owners of those vehicles received a infringement notice. A Multi Deck Car Park is desperately needed at Tallawong.
Orbital would be great. They could go under king George’s road. Easy to find digging sites and a clear corridor. It would mean connecting with metro west at Olympic park not parramatta but that would be great for sporting events and recreation - not to mention all the new homes there
19:40 If they think resources are a problem now (which they are!!!), imagine what would happen if they also tried to build seven nuclear power plants at the same time. It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.
Another excellent episode of what can be. As one who grew up in the 'red rattler' era what we have now is awesome. Let's hope that the Government picks up on your excellent ideas and allows for a greater integration about living and transport.
The thing with the houses in The Hills area is that Windsor Road and surrounding roads are always busy during peak hour. So when 20k houses were going to be built no one in the area wanted it because of how much worse it was going to make traffic
this is exactly the issue. I'm all for TOD but with the infrastructure as it is, 20k more houses will make it even more unbearable. The govt has shown that they're happy to spam houses (Elara/Marsden Park, Box Hill), but the schools and improved roads don't come until MUCH later. Schools in the area are already at capacity - Riverbank Public is the largest in NSW. It just won't work.
It's likely related, but Crows Nest is pumping on Friday and weekend nights. What an incredible boost to the local economy. Hopes for the future: Parramatta to Liverpool. Parramatta to Penrith. A Northern Beaches Line. The Eastern Suburbs line converted and extended - one branch to Bondi Beach, one to Maroubra via Randwick, Coogee etc. Maquarie Park via Ryde and Rhodes to Olympic Park. And a monorail. Every great town has one. North Haverbrook, Ogdenville, Brockway...
There should be one type of service from the WSI to Sydney Airport. I think the heavy rail should continue from Leppington to Western Sydney Airport, running 24 hrs, so people can connect flights at Sydney Airport once the 6am curfew ends each morning. e.g. International flight arrives 3am at Western Sydney and can then catch "one" train to Sydney Airport, ready for the first morning flight. Just a suggestion. Thanks Sharath 🙂
They are not going to run heavy rail 24/7. It creates too many problems. Night buses will be adequate for the few passengers that elect to arrive at 3am and then elect to get public transport. Even Changi doesn’t have 24 hr trains.
Hi Sharath. A comprehensive, intelligently presented clip, as is your habit. There are things I agree with and things I don't - with reasons given in the comments below: Buses - Yes, that area needs more work. Bankstown Metro - Looking forward to it. Perhaps it is also a good spot for interchange with a future orbital line. The WSI Airport Metro Puzzled at your views on this. Its purpose is core to greater Sydney planning (or rather, its "Three City Planning")? I'm excited about how it will introduce the Light Metro concept to Australia. It's a model that should also be considered for any orbital lines. It creates a north-south spine knitting together the most populous parts of Western Sydney, (and facilitating its development. The initial four connections with other lines are useful, but the big connector is the extension of the West Metro to the airport. WSI Airport Metro's purpose is to make Western Sydney even more of a place where you simply don't need to go anywhere else in order to get/do whatever you need. Look at any of the airport drone footage and you can see where space has been left for the extended West Metro (e.g. under Elizabeth Drive and running beside the WSI Airport Metro inside the airport boundaries - or check out the Western Sydney Airport.Site Layout 10MAP and 82MAP online. They show the whole airport, including metro/s, when it serves 10 Million Annual Passengers (about 2030) and when expanded for 82 Million Annual Passengers (in the 2060s). Metro West Years ago, there was a contention between 'no stops' and 'many stops' for a Sydney-Parramatta line. It might have ended up as a "fast metro", now popping up to connect major centres within Chinese poly-centric mega-cities. I have no issue with it. Agree with a stop at Rosehill (if possible to engineer with everything else there). Silverwater.. meh! Toronto Comparisons Toronto has a great system. But it is different from Sydney; set on a shoreline with dense development out along it, with dense deepening to the north of its centree. The lines you refer to do have 'classic metro' station intervals, and were built when other than 'classic metros' did not yet exist. IA Sydney equivalent to their Line One, it would be from say Bankstown into the city then back out along the inner west line to, say, Homebush. The station intervals on such a route would be similar to Toronto. Like most major cities, Toronto has two separate rail systems. One serving inner city and inner suburbs, and once serving the outer areas to the city. Australian city didn't do that, but opted for a single hybrid train system serving both. Sydney Metro could be argued as continuing that same approach, with newer technology. The second system in Toronto is GO. It is getting better, but its original concept was to only run trains for commuters into the city each morning, and back out again in the evening. Now there are more two-way services, but frequency is more like every 30 minutes, sometimes every 15, but in some places hourly. It's provided with long double deck cars, hauled by diesel locomotives. Probably not something we would want to copy. 'Missing' Metro Stations As described above, Australian cities don't have separate metro (for the inner city) and commuter / regional trains (inner city to outer suburbs), so common overseas, but hybrid trains that do both. Somehow the idea has developed that Sydney Trains are wonderful because they can do both. However, Sydney Metro is apparently evil and inappropriate when it also shows it can do both. Metro systems have evolved from inner city "classical" to a whole set of options, like 'fast metros and 'light metros'. They are also doing a hybrid job with more modern technology. When in densely populated areas their station intervals will be similar to classic metros. When they get out in the suburbs their stations may be further apart, reflecting their wider commuter role. As well as that, there are times that people imply a station should be somewhere, without looking at a topographic map or satellite view to check if that makes sense. Here are some examples: - There's a big gap between Barangaroo and Victoria Cross - Most people get this one - is under the middle of the harbour is not a useful station location - There's a gap between Chatswood and North Ryde - that's because the line is under Lane Cove National Park - few people, lots of wildlife with no interest in taking a train - Between Macquarie University and Epping the line is under Terry's Creek and its bushland. - Between Epping and Cherrybrook it's under State Forest and lots of just houses (a Denistonian Wilderness) I won't go any further, I think it illustrates the point. Sure there are places where you can cogently argue for an additional station (e.g. some of the places on the West Metro). But that's not the same as just dividing the total distance by the number of stations and saying "Oh look the station intervals are too wide for the classic concept of a metro, so it's wrong". There's a similar thing with the claim that "Barrangaroo station should be closer to the eateries and the ferry wharf". Sounds sensible until you remember how the line curves so hard from Martin Place to Barangaroo just to get into a station there at all. Geography and limitations imposed by physics and engineering will always win over wishful thinking. Having said that, it's a very safe bet that the people near, say, the WSI Airport line as it approaches Narellan from the north (who currently want it all underground), will complain bitterly in decades to come that they should dig it up and put in a another station so its's a closer walk for them. Future Proposals. I don't find much surprising in the 'secret' report. It would be nice to have the southern extension of the WSI Airport Metro before 2047, but the A9 (already widened and connecting to those areas) is a fast road for buses in the interim. (Which reminds me, no mention of the express buses to WSI Airport every thirty minutes from Penrith, Mt Druitt, Blacktown, Liverpool (2 routes via Elizabeth Drive, and via Leppington) and from Oran Park / Camden / Campbelltown. Or the $1 Billion update to 15th Avenue, which runs from Liverpool, through its own western suburbs to Bradfield and the Airport in a fairly straight line.) The delivery dates look fairly realistic to me, given the limited workforce available for complex, multiple, simultaneous projects. Metros in General I have no problem with having different metros, tailored to different purposes, optimised for different types of areas. In fact that's the way it should be, and how it is across most of the planet. (BTW, the lines you mentioned in Toronto are not even standard gauge track, like the rest of their system - go figure?.) It is a 'one size fits all" systems that guarantees overspending in places and underperforming in others. It is rail networks with highly interconnected tracks that enables problems of one part to affect most of the other parts. Cross-platform exchange is a good idea between the M1 and the WSI Airport Metro at Schofields / Tallawong. - 25KvAC is a far superior power supply in cost and effectiveness to the old 1500vDC system (great in its time and still functional). Any part of the rail system in NSW that can change over to 25KvAC, should do so when appropriate. Probably the only reason the M1 still uses 1500vDC is because it runs so intimately in places with existing 1500vDC Sydney Trains lines. 25KvAC is also really the only choice for any future long distance HSR. I am a huge fan of elevated metro rail systems. They are usually much quieter than surrounding traffic, and enable new stations to be inserted much more easily if ever needed. There are obvious places where undergrounding is necessary. Sydney's East-Enders would probably object to elevated trains, because they can. Westies however, are often far more pragmatic, until you get into 'greener' areas like Campbelltown. I would support elevation most of the way to Narellan from Bradfield South if that were possible. The Connection with the South West Link The idea of the SW Link being extended to an exchange station with Bradfield South appeals to me. It's already a fairly well used line. The SW Link enables turnaround of T2 and T5 trains that otherwise would need to do it at Campbelltown. It means the stabling facility can still be used for Sydney Trains. It's likely the line could be extended more cheaply at ground level to Bradfield South. Extending heavy rail line further north from Bradfield South adds a lot of cost (bigger tunnels and station boxes etc.) with no added amenity. You might also later want to extend the SW Link even further west to meet the Western orbital freight and motorway corridor (only a few Km further to the west). I don't agree with 'providing trains from one airport to the other is essential for travellers'. If you are flying into Sydney to make a transfer to another flight, you fly to the airport that provides that transfer, not to the other one and a train ride. More importantly than anything else, the much more cost-effective WSI Airport Metro should not be diverted from its task of knitting greater Western Sydney together as an independent city within the Sydney Metropolis, by being 'side-tracked' for other agendas. Sydney is not a single-centred city, and hasn't been for decades. The transport system needs to focus on travel within and around each of Sydney's poly-centric cities, every bit as much as the old obsession with 'everything must be connected with Sydney Cove"
I would like to see a metro line for the Northern Beaches to Mona Vale before continuing through to Gosford with extra stops at Avalon, Ettalong, Erina and terminus at Gosford could be interesting.
Awesome video. Great music BTW! I'm loving our new metro. Nothing like hopping into air conditioned luxury on a hot summer weekend and stepping out into a classic parkland or a scenic harbour side. Now if only we could solve the housing problem! 😄
Question, where would you look to buy a unit and where would you buy a house close to public transport? Now that there are and will be so much more transport
The areas along vic road aren’t dense enough currently to warrant a metro. Gladesville, for example, has had plans to densify its town area for years to include many apartments but its has pushback from the community. Hopefully the plans for more density come to fruition in the areas in the coming decades. I agree that there is a need for heavy rail given that it’s one of the last rail blackholes left in inner sydney.
A cheaper alternative to extending metro from Bankstown to Liverpool would be to create a Y (also known as triangle) north of glenfield to allow direct trains from Liverpool to holswothy. This would give Liverpool faster connection with city and Illawarra / airport. Additional tracks could be laid between revesby and eaat hills with perhaps a third track from Georges River (exclusive) to the new triangle to support peak express. You could then have 4 trains per hour running Liverpool to city via revesby and either sydenham or airport. These could even start at blacktown to give direct connectivity to Parramatta from T8.
It would be good if they could send a metro line from Sydenham to Bondi Junction via a loop through the airport, Port Botany, the unserved southern end of the Eastern Suburbs, an interchange to each of the Light Rail lines. Effectively this would finish the Eastern Suburbs Railway albeit as a mix of heavy rail and metro.
Your a star young enthusiastic man. However discussing planning and preparing is an excellent activity. However for the next few years the state economy needs time to move on and absorb the massive design and construction costs. The construction workforce are desperately needed for home and home unit construction. This construction employment is required to stabilise accommodation availability at an affordable expense. Keep up the quality informative work.
Should have built high speed rail between the east coast capitals and intermediate regional cities. This would have reduced congestion at Sydney airport negating the need to build a new airport. Two steps backwards, four steps backwards.
I feel like for every bus driver than head into the city and back, I think a driver can do 3-4 circular route from somewhere in the north west and to a metro station. The gap with the nwrl is due to them recycling the ecrl. If they went with the labor old plan of an Anzac line, that would have kicked ass of the current metro line
Waterloo may currently be the quietest Metro station, but only because it's not yet common knowledge how close it is to the legendary new pub by Mountain Culture Brewing Co. Yep, the people who won GABS last week as best beer in Australia, third year in a row. About 300 metres from entrance of Waterloo Metro. I travelled there from Castle Hill in less than an hour.
12:59 What I don’t understand is that Liverpool has a population that’s about 10,000 less than Parramatta, but it is totally neglected in every instance. To drive from Liverpool to Bradfield will take about 25 minutes, but to travel via public transport currently takes me 3-4 hours each way. Even with the new lines, Apple still take longer than it does to travel from Central to Bradfield.
Increasing the station spacing to Toronto levels would also make the trains stop a lot more, which would add to the journey times. I know you already know Sharath but one of the things people like the most about the metro, is the speed. It's so much faster than the trains and the station spacing helps with that. The TTC subway (and Ontario line) and Sydney metro were built to different design philosophies. The TTC behaves as a shorter distance, inner city subway to serve core areas intensively, whereas Sydney metro is more of a long distance, express service to serve the greater metro area with a decent speed. The Sydney metro trains are faster at 100kmh because of that purpose. The closest thing to Sydney metro in Canada would actually be Montreal's new REM, not the TTC. The REM is very comparable in terms of purpose and design. And station spacing.
Suggestion for a new Metro line Hurstville to Strathfield via campsie Stations at Hurstville Kingsrove Clermont park Campsie Enfield Strathfield , allowing far easier transfers between the all edges of Sydney
I despise that kink in the metro West eastwards extension to Zetland. Them trying to resolve and old problem with a newer line. IMO, save that for a future line and create a new metro station in Darlinghurst
A cheaper option for an orbital metro (and therefore more likely to happen) would be to construct a new metro line from the Metro West tunnel (between Nth Strathfield & Olympic Pk) to join Airport line at Wolli Creek. This tunnel would be shorter than Epping to Chatswood. This would mean a metro train leaves Westmead (in between Hunter St bound trains), travels along a Metro West line where it stops at Parramtta & Olympic park before going into new tunnel. This train then stops at Strathfield. Then stops at Croydon Park, Canterbury & then either Turella or Wolli Creek. Train then travels on converted airport line through Airport stops & joins current Metro line near Waterloo (which is only couple of hundred metres apart). Train then travels onto Epping where it turns around. with option for station at Croydon Park. This interchanges with all lines & goes to Parramatta plus provides metro trains to Airport.
It"s crazy that the metro did not got to Marsden Park as part of the development. As there was plenty of open land no tunnel needed. The massive number of houses and business in the area. With out much public transport now has lead traffic jams.
While expanding metro would be great, we also need to free up federal funds so we can also improve public transport infrastructure in other states like Queensland. Infrastructure Australia recently dropped a crucial Brisbane - Sunshine Coast rail link from its priority list. Its great Sydney is getting all these metros and perth and melbourne are getting more rail whilst many transport projects in South East Queensland are permanently on hold, which is a concern considering we will be hosting the 2032 Olympics.
Theres only a small portion that is funded by the federal government. The overwhelming majority of Sydney metro is funded by NSW government. Iirc most intra city and state projects are mostly state government responsibilities.
honestly a new station could be built around the lindfield area between chatswood and north ryde, since the metro already loops there. not sure if its feasible but it would reduce the 6 minute gap between north ryde and chatswood!
Going all the way out to the city edge is an over-correction for going all the way to central. Any consumer, north-south line that connects the radial lines is better than none.
I just want the doors to open and close much faster, lowering the dwell times waiting for people to get on and off. Could gain so so much time just by making half of what it currently is now (like 45 seconds?? this is actually insanely long for a metro??) People will adapt and we'll have a speedier service.
$4 billion per year is about $750 per year for every man, woman and child living in Sydney. I don't know what the solution is but that sort of money will buy you two major hospitals with change.
Can’t just draw on new lines with a crayon. The finance problem is massive, with State governments about to suffer major wage cost squeeze. I predict mostly small extensions like Schofields will fit in before 2040, and only start after the west is nearly complete,
If you look at the map of Sydney you will notice that Marrickville, Sydenham, Tempe, Mascot are all within 5mins of each other. Why wasn't an interchange placed there? And the original Lightrail (Central to Dulwich Hill) was never linked to Kingsford which would create a neat circle.
Also, what is your opinion on Japan’s rail network??? I’m going to Japan in April and am really excited, especially for the public transport. But what are your thoughts on it?
8:10 Sorry but that is such a poor argument this comparison of the Sydney Metro M1 line with the Toronto Subway. The main line of the Toronto subway only extends about 15-20km from the main area of Toronto CBD and the Ontario line only extends about 10km; whereas the Sydney Metro M1 line extends 35-40km from the CBD out to the NW. Sydney Metro made a very conscious decision in full knowledge of the tradeoffs to forgo a station between Chatswood and Crows Nest for good reasons (there is already two suburban line stations within the area and they didn't want to slow the trip down for commuters); the Sydney Metro M1 line inherited the badly-built alignment of the old ECRL which missed a station at Lane Cove and takes a ridiculously long curve between North Ryde and Chatswood. Sydney Metro made the conscious decision to only have one station between Central and Sydenham because they wanted to ensure fast journeys for when the line is ultimately extended to Liverpool. Other than that the Sydney Metro M1 line got the big decisions right.
The ECRL isn't a badly built alignment. Remember it was built for Sydney trains. The double deckers (particularly the old k-sets at the time) don't have the performance of the metro trains. The original plan was a bridge over the Lane Cove River. But locals objected to the impact on the National Park. So that meant a tunnel under the river, and long sweeping curves to get the line down there with a reasonable gradient. Because the line had to go much deeper, they also eliminated a station on that section.
@@daveg2104 Yeah, we know all this - calling it a badly-built alignment and referring to the missed station and sweeping curve was a way to condense all the information you have graciously typed out into just a few words - thanks!
Thanks for watching everyone! Do check out the extended cut of my adventures down to the Hunter Street Metro Platforms here: th-cam.com/video/tvwW3JVVpfY/w-d-xo.html. And while you're there, be sure to subscribe to Building Beautifully Extra. I'm planning to use that channel more this year.
An orbital line is something we've been sorely missing for so long. I live in the inner west and barely ever travel to South Sydney because it would take over an hour to get there on public transport.
@@DarrenTaing The original vision of the Sydney Metro was as an orbital. Tallowong would be extended to St Marys and on to the new airport as a continuous line. Heading south the line would extend from the airport to Liverpool, and then through a tunnel to connect with Bankstown, completing the circle. Advantages: Travel from the new airport to the city without transferring. Transfers add extra stress to international travellers arriving at the new airport. The proposed wider airport line carriages are useless, as passengers have to transfer at St Marys, joining a second rail network they're not familiar with. Having the airport metro as a separate isolated line is an absolutely harebrained idea.
I used to live at Kingsgrove and it was an epic chore to travel to Parramatta or Homebush via rail. You could drive it in 20-30 mins but it takes 3-4x longer via rail. There's no direct bus and the Special Events buses also take 50 mins because they snake all over the place for maximum pickups. Never understood why Sydney doesn't have an internal N-S line anywhere in the network, only on the edges.
Better buses is the solution. Especially highway buses on useless highways like westconnex and northconnex. As fast as a train, no new dedicated lanes or stations, so cheaper. Orbital line is a waste of money and if ever built should be in like 2100.
I Agree this should all have been existing heavy rail from leppington to the airport and onto st Marys. This could gave created a loop service via Parramatta and Liverpool. Then a 2nd service would run Western airport to city via glenfield and Sydney airport
I agree with this, as someone living close to Miranda that often travels to Olympic park and used to travel to Campbelltown frequently (still do but just to visit family) and I can safely say all of my trips would be so much shorter if there was a line between Sutherland/hurstville and Parramatta. Sutherland would be my personal pick as it is located further away and a proposed line would have a stop in Menai and link up at Revesby easily whereas Hurstville is only 20 minutes away from Revesby not taking into account wait times. It would cut down a sutherland-Campbelltown trip from 30 minutes to under 10 minutes as well as a sutherland-Parramatta trip from 60 or so minutes to 20 or so minutes. This would also help south coast commuters get to western Sydney as the only real viable trip at the moment is a hour long bus ride from Wollongong station to Campbelltown station.
Great video, Sharath! It was so cool seeing inside Hunter Street Station! Metro West is gonna be just as transformative as the M1!
As a commuter from Hurstville, the Hurstville to Parra analogy was perfect. it's the exact same if someone from Hurstville wants to travel to Liverpool or to western Sydney where driving is just the better option. Before metro stage 2, travel to Epping or Chatswood required driving through the heavily congested King Georges Road, and I believe a metro corridor linking Strathfield to Hurstville would heavily ease congestion on this road. If you've ever driven on it past Flemington, you'll know what I mean!
"Babe wake up, Building Beautifully just uploaded a new video"
Wow, your enthusiasm for turning Sydney into a railway city is infectious, and your meta-view of the network makes my head spin in a good way.
When I use public transport, it’s because I don’t want to drive (don’t want to think about parking, plan on drinking, etc). Thankfully I live pretty close to buses that are decently frequent, but I can’t imagine having to drive to catch the train. Defeats the purpose of catching the train for me.
As someone who lives between Schofields and Tallawong stations, the glaring gap looks so obvious. Even the land is open and available. An elevated rail along Schofields road and South Street on to Marsden Park and beyond seems like such no brainer. It seems like such an unfortunate wasted opportunity that it wasn't built in Metro phase1.
North westies don't want all those housos from mt druitt coming into the area
@@_peepyopee and yet frequent bus connections exist. All it is is a major inconvenience for everyone.
@@janesk1 "frequent" is worse than half an hour after 7pm.
We also need more frequent bus connections to Metro stops. It's useless having a Metro every 4 minutes but the buses still only run every 20-30 minutes. Sydenham I'm looking at you - an orbital bus to Victoria Rd would help join to multiple bus services.
Well you do already have the 410, which runs every 15min from Hurstville-Bexley North-Campsie-Burwood-Rhodes-Victoria Road-Top Ryde-Macquarie Park. That is kind of what you are talking about.
@@BigBlueMan118wrong Victoria Rd
@mike-williams oh you're talking about Marrickville Vic Rd? I mean sure Im with you but I doubt that would have all that much impact.
@@BigBlueMan118 The 430 bus that connects to the Marrickville side of Sydneham station has seen a huge jump in ridership but it's infrequent, cuts off early in day and is awkward to get to from the Metro (you have to walk up a hill and find it hidden across a road.) If there was a bus looping from the station around to Victoria Rd and perhaps up to Addison Rd then it would connect with the 423, 426, 428 and 355 buses to properly extend the catchment area. There's also the safety issue of walking through dark streets of Sydenham to and from evening Metro journeys.
I'm sure there's a lot of other areas benefiting from local loop buses that would connect people to amenities (especially the elderly, infirm and socially isolated), and perhaps staunch the dumping of shopping trolleys on streets for kilometres around shopping centres. I've suggested as such to my council but ..."crickets".
Finally, he's back! Sydney Metro is definitely a successful project, glad to see it being acknowledged more and more.
Remember that Sydenham is getting a boost because of the train replacement buses. Once the metro is completed and operating those numbers are likely to fill out across the bankstown line stations.
I would still imagine Sydenham to be up significantly on its pre-C&SW Metro numbers, and I would expect the Bankstown line stations to go up significantly due to the much faster and more frequent service.
Completely agree about the orbital line that connects to the radial lines. RM transit has a great video explaining why orbital/circumferential lines in other cities have been so successful. In Sydney I think such a line would benefit our smaller CBDs, uni students and access to health facilities.
One thought I had was incorporating bus T-ways with light rail. A tram running on the T80 from Liverpool to Parramatta would be amazing. It doesn’t have to be tram exclusive either. Stops and right-of-way could be shared with local bus routes. I’m sue similar T-ways around Sydney could benefit from such a system too.
The station distance topic is a good one. For the longer lines, it makes sense to have the stops less frequent further out so the overall journey time isn't too slow, with stops closer together in the central area.
Agreed. Also if note is that Sydney's density (beyond a few specific areas) is way lower than most cities with a comparable rail network
Another point with that station data is that Schofields and other stations of the Richmond line saw a decrease (many around 6-7%). Given Tallawong's 40% increase I'm guessing a lot of those people are driving to Tallawaong to catch the Metro instead.
Possible correction in an otherwise interesting, excellent and thought provoking video. Melbourne did previosly have orbital railways. In the early 1890s. The inner circle line and the Outer Circle Line - the chief engineer of the later was a young (not yet graduated - he still needed to pass a latin exam and other things to graduate) engineer called John Monash - you may have heard of him ;-)
When Monash planned all this - cars did not exist yet.
Great video - love the inclusion of the entry/exit stats - I wish more transport videos did this.
Someone from Melbourne here, let me just say I’m so jealous. In NSW both sides of the political spectrum want to invest in PT. Meanwhile in Vic, our government is trying & appease everyone (transport wise). I reckon if Jacinta had her way we’d have more transit but the media & opposition would bash her for it. But it’s almost like our government is holding a double ended sword & jamming their hands onto both blades instead of just building more PT. The SRL is great but while it does have its flaws I’m still all for it (it was partially influenced by Sydney’s Metro).
I personally would like an inner city connector to be built. Rebuilding the inner circle line, down to Victoria Park, then new stations in Abbotsford, Victoria Gardens SC, Barkers road area, Auburn, Goenferrie, Camberwell, converting the Alamein line, East Malvern, Chadstone, Oakleigh, Clayton, & Westall. Much like the Sydney Metro lines built to take strain off existing lines, help redevelop areas, & provide more accessible transport. I think people from Sydney forget how lucky they are to have a Metro.
One of your best videos, Sharath!
Lots of very valid points and suggestions.
Absolutely agree with you Sharath, perhaps you should be the Minister of Public Transport for NSW. The government should be building a Metro for Sydney that goes around starting from South Sydney and to the West of Sydney then through Parramatta CITY then North West and through to the North of Sydney to better connect all suburban Train Line to Metro line for interchange and inter connecting line services so that people don’t have to travel to Sydney CBD then out to the west when they can travel across and around. Thanks Sharath please do convince the government to listen. That will cost time. That will benefit everyone. ❤👋💚👏😎🇦🇺
Hey Sharath, very well produced video. A lot of work ! I use the metro more than I really have to because I can explore new places. You are better connected than most of us. Please ask them to increase the weekend metro services from 10 minutes to 8 minutes during school holidays. That’s when so many families and kids crowd into the metro. It’s incredible, yet too overcrowded on weekends during the holidays. They need to definitely increase the frequency. Keep making these great videos.
7:26 This is a similar problem at North Ryde station, which is the closest rail station to areas like Gladesville, Hunters Hill and the general Ryde area, with only a single bus route present at the station that runs from Top Ryde to Chatswood every 30 mins. The area the station currently serves is quite small given the need to cross Epping road to get to it from the suburban area, which is demonstrated in its evidently low patronage.
While i do understand that these suburbs already have a consistent bus link to the city, getting from anywhere in that area to Chatswood, the hills or north sydney via PT sucks…
And that station doesn’t have much parking either making it even more useless, not that there’s anywhere to build a car park, but more busses and new routes to north ryde would be great
Missed your informative videos mate! Welcome back and look forward to more to come in 2025!
I love the metro from Barangaroo to town hall, so useful! Also everyone looking at you when you're filming was so funny
Very good video! few points like to add to the current Sydney Metro.
1. Barangaroo Station - at least for now, the vast majority of users are commuters. If the exit wasn’t so far, or if it didn’t take 10 minutes just to walk to "Barangaroo," there would be a lot more people using it.
2.it is shocking that even though it has only been open for a few months, the tracks between Epping to Cherrybrook and MQU are so bumpy. This is a brand-new metro, not a railway that hasn’t been maintained for 100 years!
3. completely agree with Issue 2. In fact, the 626 isn’t even the worst. For example, the 635 runs only once an hour during off-peak times. This means that if you arrive at Cherrybrook Station just as the 635 leaves in front of you, the only options are either spending over half an hour walking home or paying more than $15 for an Uber.
4. still at Cherrybrook Station, my neighbor told me that the parking lot is always full before 7 AM… So basically, there is no option.
Re 1. Barangaroo Station is also a 8-10min walk from the Arts precinct wharfs so it's serving both commuters to the south and cast, crew and audiences of venues and also the park to the north.
And also regarding Barangaroo. When Barangaroo Central is developed, there will be a connection from the platform gate concourse through that development. So it won't seem so isolated.
Great information shared. Agree, we need to find a way to support infrastructure building and homes, not one at the expense of the other.
Great Video ( Havent finished it yet )
Such a good breakdown of stats for the recently opened stations as well as discussing reasoning for the 2024 metro videos. Can't wait to see more content talking on the true future of Sydney Metro.
Is there any explanation for the particularly large gap between Waterloo and Sydenham? A station in Alexandra/Sydney Park would have been awesome.
Personal reasons
yeah, i didnt want it there
It's true - a station at the corner of Sydney Park would have been a very good idea. I think it came down to cost in the end.
One original proposal didn't even have a stop at Waterloo. That was strongly argued for as it would be the key to redeveloping the entire precinct, so the cost there was justified.
The cost for a second stop was considered too great - it could have added $600-800 million more.
Probably because there are existing stations (with at least one likely within walking distance of any point) that already service that area - namely Green Square, Erskineville and St Peters. Those stations also have plenty of spare capacity, so no need for a metro station to provide relief, like Gadigal does for Town hall. Also multiple and frequent bus routes in that area.
Chris Minns' wife lives there.
Noice !
Yeah, station spacing could be surprising, as it's comparable to the Grand Paris Express, which is an express metro expansion that comes on top of a large metro network, a cross regional express heavy metro network (RER), a tramway network, and a suburban train network.
The finer services to many more catchment areas are already there, not so much in Sydney, but there's also the issue of density.
A few more stations to serve more places wouldn't be too much.
Anyway, the 25-year plan proposal is exciting, and I hope it will happen. It would be great for Sydney to see this come true.
Greetings from Paris!
Happy new year Sarath! Long live the metro!! I love riding up the front!!!
I would suggest extending it to:
Penrith
Richmond
Sydney Airport
The Central Coast
The South Coast
PENRITH PLS NOW PLEASE YES PLEASE
@@seunghyukjung628Maybe a line from Parriewood to Penrith like Parriewood, Pemulwuy, Prospect, Eastern Creek/Rooty Hill South (Which could be extended to Rooty Hill North, Plumpton, Marsden Park Business Park then Marsden Park), Minchinbury, Colyton, Orchard Hills (Interchange with WSA Line), South Penrith, and then Penrith in both tunnels and bridges.
Central Coast? That's a long shot!
metro systems are not designed for intercity journeys - the high speed rail proposal is better suited to connecting the coasts to Sydney. It's incredibly unrealistic to create a metro from the south coast or central coast to anywhere! If it were that simple, the WSA metro would also be connected to the city directly. The metro isn't about covering long distances (the current M1 line is basically 3 lines combined i.e. the 3 stages), it's more about cutting time from already achievable journeys.
What about the northern beaches of Sydney?
A link from Epping to Parramatta would also serve people travelling from the Central Coast (and even Newcastle) to Sydney for work.
Strathfield is not a bad interchange (other than the long ramps up to the platforms). But a shorter and more direct route to Parramatta from Epping would encourage more people from the Central Coast and Newcastle to seek work in Parramatta.
I would also argue that Hurstville could serve the same purpose for travellers from Wollongong and the South Coast. Build a metro from Hurstville to Parramatta.
So amazing to see how the Metro is working already! Much, MUCH more is required, but don't hold your breath, definitely not with this government.
Always an amazing day when Sharath uploads!! :D
new year
new building beautifully video
LETS GO
I'm a ten minute walk from Town Hall and catch to train to St Leonards for work everyday. Even thought the train station is significantly closer to my work than Crows Nest Metro, I still catch it 80% of the time because it's just so reliable and so quick.
My dad lives in Epping and it's made what used to be an hour an ten minute journey (you usually end up waiting 10 minutes for a T9 service) a 40 minute trip that is never delayed.
I'm moving to Wolli Creek so I plan to continue commuting via metro by transferring at Sydenham.
Have you covered the eternally 'soon' Glendale station/Lake Macquarie transport hub?
Its the largest outdoor mall in the country, literally next to an old station and rail workshops. And all the major roads feed to it.
Seems like the biggest gimme of a 'just build the place' in the state.
The lower north shore has two separate rail networks. Parramatta will have two separate rail networks. Not to mention ferries to both, and direct to CBD buses.
Is there something about the NSW electorate of Maroubra, and specifically my area at Eastgardens that makes transport planners alergic to giving us, well, anything?
I've used the CBD metro twice since opening. It's of little relevance to me. I'm stuck with the rubbish buses out here (I live 30 mins walk from Juniors L3 stop). Since the L3 opened all our direct-to-city buses were axed. As well as the much missed 400 bus.
Great video!
You made an excellent point about station spacing and car-dependency and car-parking.
The tighter the station spacing, the more walkable it is to the station, the less need to drive to the station and have station car parking.
The wider the station spacing, the less walkable it is to the train station, the greater the need to drive to the train station and more demand for gigantic car parking lots next to the train station.
Great video Sharath! Being a train nerd myself, I love all the stats and info as well as your future proposals. Sadly, I believe the government is preoccupied with a different project at the moment: High Speed rail. It is said they’ve already started planning for a Central Coast High Speed Rail, so sorry, but it doesn’t seem like they’re thinking much about the metro at the moment.
I’m absolutely gutted I missed the Sydney Metro extension opening when I visited last year, but I’m glad that Sydney has so much real and forward looking public transport investment on the horizon, and I hope I can experience some of it for myself soon! ~ Daniel
You sir are a total rock star. When are you going into politics to get these great ideas of yours into action ? You've got my vote.
i wish they brought back the ropes creek line i live right next to it i wish it would open back up again
Great Video Sharath!
I think it is absolutely bizarre that there is no intention of ever linking heavy rail to the new airport. Not just for passengers - you've convinced me that light rail (metro) links are sometimes better for these - but for FREIGHT. The new airport's biggest business in early decades will be freight, for which it is much better located than Mascot and will also benefit greatly from no curfew.
Residents in these new suburbs will have a noise problem alright - not from planes but from B-Double trucks.
I keep looking at the metro west line and wondering why it's not better connected. There are _four_ L1 stops at Pyrmont it could've connected with, but it doesn't; it's going to require going up to street level and back down again. To travel from it to the North Shore or Kingsford Smith Airport will require changing trains at Martin Place and then _again_ at Town Hall or Central-it's silly that it doesn't have more stations in the City, especially with spare platforms available at StJames. They're spending so much money, for something so half-arsed. 🙁
Finding a car park for example Tallawong is FULL TO THE BRIM by 7am. I've seen up to 8 vehicles illegally parked and the owners of those vehicles received a infringement notice. A Multi Deck Car Park is desperately needed at Tallawong.
Car parks are never enough. Need more buses.
A carrot and stick approach is needed.
More connecting buses and make them free.
Some charge for the carpark (say $4 with a weekly $12 cap)
Great vid!
Orbital would be great. They could go under king George’s road. Easy to find digging sites and a clear corridor. It would mean connecting with metro west at Olympic park not parramatta but that would be great for sporting events and recreation - not to mention all the new homes there
19:40 If they think resources are a problem now (which they are!!!), imagine what would happen if they also tried to build seven nuclear power plants at the same time. It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.
Another excellent episode of what can be. As one who grew up in the 'red rattler' era what we have now is awesome. Let's hope that the Government picks up on your excellent ideas and allows for a greater integration about living and transport.
The thing with the houses in The Hills area is that Windsor Road and surrounding roads are always busy during peak hour. So when 20k houses were going to be built no one in the area wanted it because of how much worse it was going to make traffic
this is exactly the issue. I'm all for TOD but with the infrastructure as it is, 20k more houses will make it even more unbearable. The govt has shown that they're happy to spam houses (Elara/Marsden Park, Box Hill), but the schools and improved roads don't come until MUCH later. Schools in the area are already at capacity - Riverbank Public is the largest in NSW. It just won't work.
Another awesome video
Love your work
As you said, it’s far from perfect
And is so new hey
But such a game changer
Keep up the awesome work sir ! 🙏🏼🤗
It's likely related, but Crows Nest is pumping on Friday and weekend nights. What an incredible boost to the local economy.
Hopes for the future:
Parramatta to Liverpool.
Parramatta to Penrith.
A Northern Beaches Line.
The Eastern Suburbs line converted and extended - one branch to Bondi Beach, one to Maroubra via Randwick, Coogee etc.
Maquarie Park via Ryde and Rhodes to Olympic Park.
And a monorail. Every great town has one. North Haverbrook, Ogdenville, Brockway...
what about a north south link through baukham hills and northmead to harris park and then convert the t5 southwards?
Agreed .. I live in Castle Hill and have have dinner a couple of times at Crows Nest. Would never have done that before the Metro.
There should be one type of service from the WSI to Sydney Airport. I think the heavy rail should continue from Leppington to Western Sydney Airport, running 24 hrs, so people can connect flights at Sydney Airport once the 6am curfew ends each morning. e.g. International flight arrives 3am at Western Sydney and can then catch "one" train to Sydney Airport, ready for the first morning flight. Just a suggestion. Thanks Sharath 🙂
They are not going to run heavy rail 24/7. It creates too many problems. Night buses will be adequate for the few passengers that elect to arrive at 3am and then elect to get public transport. Even Changi doesn’t have 24 hr trains.
@ wow cool
The number of people connecting will be very small
Hi Sharath. A comprehensive, intelligently presented clip, as is your habit. There are things I agree with and things I don't - with reasons given in the comments below:
Buses - Yes, that area needs more work.
Bankstown Metro - Looking forward to it. Perhaps it is also a good spot for interchange with a future orbital line.
The WSI Airport Metro
Puzzled at your views on this. Its purpose is core to greater Sydney planning (or rather, its "Three City Planning")? I'm excited about how it will introduce the Light Metro concept to Australia. It's a model that should also be considered for any orbital lines.
It creates a north-south spine knitting together the most populous parts of Western Sydney, (and facilitating its development. The initial four connections with other lines are useful, but the big connector is the extension of the West Metro to the airport. WSI Airport Metro's purpose is to make Western Sydney even more of a place where you simply don't need to go anywhere else in order to get/do whatever you need.
Look at any of the airport drone footage and you can see where space has been left for the extended West Metro (e.g. under Elizabeth Drive and running beside the WSI Airport Metro inside the airport boundaries - or check out the Western Sydney Airport.Site Layout 10MAP and 82MAP online. They show the whole airport, including metro/s, when it serves 10 Million Annual Passengers (about 2030) and when expanded for 82 Million Annual Passengers (in the 2060s).
Metro West
Years ago, there was a contention between 'no stops' and 'many stops' for a Sydney-Parramatta line. It might have ended up as a "fast metro", now popping up to connect major centres within Chinese poly-centric mega-cities. I have no issue with it. Agree with a stop at Rosehill (if possible to engineer with everything else there). Silverwater.. meh!
Toronto Comparisons
Toronto has a great system. But it is different from Sydney; set on a shoreline with dense development out along it, with dense deepening to the north of its centree. The lines you refer to do have 'classic metro' station intervals, and were built when other than 'classic metros' did not yet exist. IA Sydney equivalent to their Line One, it would be from say Bankstown into the city then back out along the inner west line to, say, Homebush. The station intervals on such a route would be similar to Toronto.
Like most major cities, Toronto has two separate rail systems. One serving inner city and inner suburbs, and once serving the outer areas to the city. Australian city didn't do that, but opted for a single hybrid train system serving both. Sydney Metro could be argued as continuing that same approach, with newer technology. The second system in Toronto is GO. It is getting better, but its original concept was to only run trains for commuters into the city each morning, and back out again in the evening. Now there are more two-way services, but frequency is more like every 30 minutes, sometimes every 15, but in some places hourly. It's provided with long double deck cars, hauled by diesel locomotives. Probably not something we would want to copy.
'Missing' Metro Stations
As described above, Australian cities don't have separate metro (for the inner city) and commuter / regional trains (inner city to outer suburbs), so common overseas, but hybrid trains that do both. Somehow the idea has developed that Sydney Trains are wonderful because they can do both. However, Sydney Metro is apparently evil and inappropriate when it also shows it can do both. Metro systems have evolved from inner city "classical" to a whole set of options, like 'fast metros and 'light metros'. They are also doing a hybrid job with more modern technology. When in densely populated areas their station intervals will be similar to classic metros. When they get out in the suburbs their stations may be further apart, reflecting their wider commuter role.
As well as that, there are times that people imply a station should be somewhere, without looking at a topographic map or satellite view to check if that makes sense. Here are some examples:
- There's a big gap between Barangaroo and Victoria Cross - Most people get this one - is under the middle of the harbour is not a useful station location
- There's a gap between Chatswood and North Ryde - that's because the line is under Lane Cove National Park - few people, lots of wildlife with no interest in taking a train
- Between Macquarie University and Epping the line is under Terry's Creek and its bushland.
- Between Epping and Cherrybrook it's under State Forest and lots of just houses (a Denistonian Wilderness)
I won't go any further, I think it illustrates the point. Sure there are places where you can cogently argue for an additional station (e.g. some of the places on the West Metro). But that's not the same as just dividing the total distance by the number of stations and saying "Oh look the station intervals are too wide for the classic concept of a metro, so it's wrong".
There's a similar thing with the claim that "Barrangaroo station should be closer to the eateries and the ferry wharf". Sounds sensible until you remember how the line curves so hard from Martin Place to Barangaroo just to get into a station there at all. Geography and limitations imposed by physics and engineering will always win over wishful thinking. Having said that, it's a very safe bet that the people near, say, the WSI Airport line as it approaches Narellan from the north (who currently want it all underground), will complain bitterly in decades to come that they should dig it up and put in a another station so its's a closer walk for them.
Future Proposals.
I don't find much surprising in the 'secret' report. It would be nice to have the southern extension of the WSI Airport Metro before 2047, but the A9 (already widened and connecting to those areas) is a fast road for buses in the interim. (Which reminds me, no mention of the express buses to WSI Airport every thirty minutes from Penrith, Mt Druitt, Blacktown, Liverpool (2 routes via Elizabeth Drive, and via Leppington) and from Oran Park / Camden / Campbelltown. Or the $1 Billion update to 15th Avenue, which runs from Liverpool, through its own western suburbs to Bradfield and the Airport in a fairly straight line.) The delivery dates look fairly realistic to me, given the limited workforce available for complex, multiple, simultaneous projects.
Metros in General
I have no problem with having different metros, tailored to different purposes, optimised for different types of areas. In fact that's the way it should be, and how it is across most of the planet. (BTW, the lines you mentioned in Toronto are not even standard gauge track, like the rest of their system - go figure?.) It is a 'one size fits all" systems that guarantees overspending in places and underperforming in others. It is rail networks with highly interconnected tracks that enables problems of one part to affect most of the other parts.
Cross-platform exchange is a good idea between the M1 and the WSI Airport Metro at Schofields / Tallawong. - 25KvAC is a far superior power supply in cost and effectiveness to the old 1500vDC system (great in its time and still functional). Any part of the rail system in NSW that can change over to 25KvAC, should do so when appropriate. Probably the only reason the M1 still uses 1500vDC is because it runs so intimately in places with existing 1500vDC Sydney Trains lines. 25KvAC is also really the only choice for any future long distance HSR.
I am a huge fan of elevated metro rail systems. They are usually much quieter than surrounding traffic, and enable new stations to be inserted much more easily if ever needed. There are obvious places where undergrounding is necessary. Sydney's East-Enders would probably object to elevated trains, because they can. Westies however, are often far more pragmatic, until you get into 'greener' areas like Campbelltown. I would support elevation most of the way to Narellan from Bradfield South if that were possible.
The Connection with the South West Link
The idea of the SW Link being extended to an exchange station with Bradfield South appeals to me. It's already a fairly well used line. The SW Link enables turnaround of T2 and T5 trains that otherwise would need to do it at Campbelltown. It means the stabling facility can still be used for Sydney Trains. It's likely the line could be extended more cheaply at ground level to Bradfield South.
Extending heavy rail line further north from Bradfield South adds a lot of cost (bigger tunnels and station boxes etc.) with no added amenity. You might also later want to extend the SW Link even further west to meet the Western orbital freight and motorway corridor (only a few Km further to the west).
I don't agree with 'providing trains from one airport to the other is essential for travellers'. If you are flying into Sydney to make a transfer to another flight, you fly to the airport that provides that transfer, not to the other one and a train ride.
More importantly than anything else, the much more cost-effective WSI Airport Metro should not be diverted from its task of knitting greater Western Sydney together as an independent city within the Sydney Metropolis, by being 'side-tracked' for other agendas. Sydney is not a single-centred city, and hasn't been for decades. The transport system needs to focus on travel within and around each of Sydney's poly-centric cities, every bit as much as the old obsession with 'everything must be connected with Sydney Cove"
I would like to see a metro line for the Northern Beaches to Mona Vale before continuing through to Gosford with extra stops at Avalon, Ettalong, Erina and terminus at Gosford could be interesting.
Awesome video. Great music BTW! I'm loving our new metro. Nothing like hopping into air conditioned luxury on a hot summer weekend and stepping out into a classic parkland or a scenic harbour side. Now if only we could solve the housing problem! 😄
2:02 did Sharath intentionally not highlight Epping or was it a mistakr?
Edit: nvm it is likely because of it not ranging between the 20%-40% area
Question, where would you look to buy a unit and where would you buy a house close to public transport? Now that there are and will be so much more transport
Here is a question, is the explanation for the 1.5kv vs 25kv in the first line, the decision to re use the Epping to Chatswood tunnels?
Do you know why there's no plan to build train/metro station on busy Victoria Road?😢
The areas along vic road aren’t dense enough currently to warrant a metro. Gladesville, for example, has had plans to densify its town area for years to include many apartments but its has pushback from the community.
Hopefully the plans for more density come to fruition in the areas in the coming decades. I agree that there is a need for heavy rail given that it’s one of the last rail blackholes left in inner sydney.
Great video but you are correct about parking especially at Tallawong, it is ridiculous the amount of parking that they have provided
What about some type of rail to the northern beaches?
A cheaper alternative to extending metro from Bankstown to Liverpool would be to create a Y (also known as triangle) north of glenfield to allow direct trains from Liverpool to holswothy. This would give Liverpool faster connection with city and Illawarra / airport. Additional tracks could be laid between revesby and eaat hills with perhaps a third track from Georges River (exclusive) to the new triangle to support peak express. You could then have 4 trains per hour running Liverpool to city via revesby and either sydenham or airport. These could even start at blacktown to give direct connectivity to Parramatta from T8.
The on demand bus in the Ponds region is absolutely fantastic
It would be good if they could send a metro line from Sydenham to Bondi Junction via a loop through the airport, Port Botany, the unserved southern end of the Eastern Suburbs, an interchange to each of the Light Rail lines. Effectively this would finish the Eastern Suburbs Railway albeit as a mix of heavy rail and metro.
Your a star young enthusiastic man. However discussing planning and preparing is an excellent activity. However for the next few years the state economy needs time to move on and absorb the massive design and construction costs. The construction workforce are desperately needed for home and home unit construction. This construction employment is required to stabilise accommodation availability at an affordable expense. Keep up the quality informative work.
Should have built high speed rail between the east coast capitals and intermediate regional cities. This would have reduced congestion at Sydney airport negating the need to build a new airport.
Two steps backwards, four steps backwards.
I feel like for every bus driver than head into the city and back, I think a driver can do 3-4 circular route from somewhere in the north west and to a metro station.
The gap with the nwrl is due to them recycling the ecrl. If they went with the labor old plan of an Anzac line, that would have kicked ass of the current metro line
Waterloo may currently be the quietest Metro station, but only because it's not yet common knowledge how close it is to the legendary new pub by Mountain Culture Brewing Co. Yep, the people who won GABS last week as best beer in Australia, third year in a row. About 300 metres from entrance of Waterloo Metro. I travelled there from Castle Hill in less than an hour.
12:59 What I don’t understand is that Liverpool has a population that’s about 10,000 less than Parramatta, but it is totally neglected in every instance. To drive from Liverpool to Bradfield will take about 25 minutes, but to travel via public transport currently takes me 3-4 hours each way. Even with the new lines, Apple still take longer than it does to travel from Central to Bradfield.
Increasing the station spacing to Toronto levels would also make the trains stop a lot more, which would add to the journey times. I know you already know Sharath but one of the things people like the most about the metro, is the speed. It's so much faster than the trains and the station spacing helps with that.
The TTC subway (and Ontario line) and Sydney metro were built to different design philosophies. The TTC behaves as a shorter distance, inner city subway to serve core areas intensively, whereas Sydney metro is more of a long distance, express service to serve the greater metro area with a decent speed. The Sydney metro trains are faster at 100kmh because of that purpose.
The closest thing to Sydney metro in Canada would actually be Montreal's new REM, not the TTC. The REM is very comparable in terms of purpose and design. And station spacing.
Suggestion for a new Metro line
Hurstville to Strathfield via campsie
Stations at Hurstville Kingsrove Clermont park Campsie Enfield Strathfield , allowing far easier transfers between the all edges of Sydney
The empty land around the stations should have a inactive land use land tax applied.
Could you do a video on some of the country lines I would like to see you opinion on them.
I love your videos but and the music is just always chefs kiss
I despise that kink in the metro West eastwards extension to Zetland. Them trying to resolve and old problem with a newer line. IMO, save that for a future line and create a new metro station in Darlinghurst
Happy Chinese new year to you too sharath!
I think we need an Australian version of the Quebecois classic "Il faut beau dans l'metro"
A cheaper option for an orbital metro (and therefore more likely to happen) would be to construct a new metro line from the Metro West tunnel (between Nth Strathfield & Olympic Pk) to join Airport line at Wolli Creek. This tunnel would be shorter than Epping to Chatswood.
This would mean a metro train leaves Westmead (in between Hunter St bound trains), travels along a Metro West line where it stops at Parramtta & Olympic park before going into new tunnel. This train then stops at Strathfield. Then stops at Croydon Park, Canterbury & then either Turella or Wolli Creek. Train then travels on converted airport line through Airport stops & joins current Metro line near Waterloo (which is only couple of hundred metres apart). Train then travels onto Epping where it turns around. with option for station at Croydon Park.
This interchanges with all lines & goes to Parramatta plus provides metro trains to Airport.
New Cumberland Line is also on the cards the SWRL conversion should go ahead with this project, it makes more sense if these are done together
It"s crazy that the metro did not got to Marsden Park as part of the development. As there was plenty of open land no
tunnel needed. The massive number of houses and business in the area. With out much public transport now has lead
traffic jams.
Housing, and transport are all part of the essential services we need to focus on all the time not just one at a time. 😊
While expanding metro would be great, we also need to free up federal funds so we can also improve public transport infrastructure in other states like Queensland. Infrastructure Australia recently dropped a crucial Brisbane - Sunshine Coast rail link from its priority list. Its great Sydney is getting all these metros and perth and melbourne are getting more rail whilst many transport projects in South East Queensland are permanently on hold, which is a concern considering we will be hosting the 2032 Olympics.
Theres only a small portion that is funded by the federal government. The overwhelming majority of Sydney metro is funded by NSW government.
Iirc most intra city and state projects are mostly state government responsibilities.
The only federal funding Sydney got was for the airport rail line. It was almost entirely funded by NSW
@ Fair enough. Qld Government is just lazy i guess
honestly a new station could be built around the lindfield area between chatswood and north ryde, since the metro already loops there. not sure if its feasible but it would reduce the 6 minute gap between north ryde and chatswood!
Going all the way out to the city edge is an over-correction for going all the way to central. Any consumer, north-south line that connects the radial lines is better than none.
I just want the doors to open and close much faster, lowering the dwell times waiting for people to get on and off.
Could gain so so much time just by making half of what it currently is now (like 45 seconds?? this is actually insanely long for a metro??)
People will adapt and we'll have a speedier service.
$4 billion per year is about $750 per year for every man, woman and child living in Sydney. I don't know what the solution is but that sort of money will buy you two major hospitals with change.
so what
Hmm, I wonder how many investment properties Michelle Rowland MP owns in Sydney....
Can’t just draw on new lines with a crayon. The finance problem is massive, with State governments about to suffer major wage cost squeeze. I predict mostly small extensions like Schofields will fit in before 2040, and only start after the west is nearly complete,
And the government sold profitable assets (Poles & wires, and WestConnex stake) to fund the current building program.
That cupboard is bear.
Great video!
Great ep
I'm surprised you didn't mention the proposal for the new cumberland line.
If you look at the map of Sydney you will notice that Marrickville, Sydenham, Tempe, Mascot are all within 5mins of each other. Why wasn't an interchange placed there? And the original Lightrail (Central to Dulwich Hill) was never linked to Kingsford which would create a neat circle.
Also, what is your opinion on Japan’s rail network??? I’m going to Japan in April and am really excited, especially for the public transport. But what are your thoughts on it?
I got the metro from Waterloo to Cherrybrook.... 35 minutes, just insane.
Inner Orbital Line: Norwest/Castle Hill, Parramatta, Lidcombe, Bankstown, Roselands, Beverly Hills, Hurstville, Kogarah
8:10 Sorry but that is such a poor argument this comparison of the Sydney Metro M1 line with the Toronto Subway. The main line of the Toronto subway only extends about 15-20km from the main area of Toronto CBD and the Ontario line only extends about 10km; whereas the Sydney Metro M1 line extends 35-40km from the CBD out to the NW. Sydney Metro made a very conscious decision in full knowledge of the tradeoffs to forgo a station between Chatswood and Crows Nest for good reasons (there is already two suburban line stations within the area and they didn't want to slow the trip down for commuters); the Sydney Metro M1 line inherited the badly-built alignment of the old ECRL which missed a station at Lane Cove and takes a ridiculously long curve between North Ryde and Chatswood. Sydney Metro made the conscious decision to only have one station between Central and Sydenham because they wanted to ensure fast journeys for when the line is ultimately extended to Liverpool. Other than that the Sydney Metro M1 line got the big decisions right.
The ECRL isn't a badly built alignment. Remember it was built for Sydney trains. The double deckers (particularly the old k-sets at the time) don't have the performance of the metro trains. The original plan was a bridge over the Lane Cove River. But locals objected to the impact on the National Park. So that meant a tunnel under the river, and long sweeping curves to get the line down there with a reasonable gradient. Because the line had to go much deeper, they also eliminated a station on that section.
@@daveg2104 Yeah, we know all this - calling it a badly-built alignment and referring to the missed station and sweeping curve was a way to condense all the information you have graciously typed out into just a few words - thanks!