“Hollywood Removed The TRUE Meaning Of Snow White!” Jonathan Pageau & Russell Brand
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2023
- Here's a clip from my conversation with philosopher and author Jonathan Pageau. You can now pre-order his new book, “Snow White and the Widow Queen” at www.TheSymbolicWorld.com. In this clip Jonathan analyses how Hollywood has removed the true meaning of Snow White.
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I absolutely LOVE that you had Jonathan Pageau on the show. He is absolutely outstanding.
Pageau has rocketed into intellectual prominence in the last half decade, and not a moment too soon. So glad to see him reaching new audiences.
Dude is on point in a very deep way. Any idea if he and Jordan Peterson have talked?
@@champian8760 He and Dr. Peterson are friends. Pageau was one of the commentators in his Exodus series. He has a website and TH-cam channel called The Symbolic World.
@@champian8760 Thats likely how this conversation happened. Jordan Peterson and Pageau have a pretty long and healthy history at this point.
@@champian8760he is Jordan Peterson's Muse Jordan Peterson gets more than half of his ideas from Jonathan
@@champian8760jordan peterson is the guy who brought Pageau to prominence with their frog symbolism video years ago
More Pageau!!! He has an amazing understanding of symbolism and story that is so relevant to our world right now. These two minds meeting..YES!
Finally, Jonathan Pageau - thank you so much. This is a great day.
Jonathan is one of my favourites ❤
If people read Grimm fairytales, they'd realize Disney has sanitized many of the stories from their original dark telling.
It was done centuries before dysney 😂
@@mitch190little red riding hood too
R u kiddin me? They like them coz they're dark
You are right.
From my limited research into these fairy tales, stories, and fables, the Grimm brothers sanitized what had already been cleaned up by others as these stories moved from country to country from their original point of origin. The original intentions of these stories was to convey the message of misery and tragedy that befalls young women and especially for those who happen to be away from the easy reach of family and friends.
And it's inspired by true events.
I feel bad for anyone raising kids now...
Currently raising kids and I feel like I have an incredible opportunity to be doing so at this very interesting moment in history
I hear you and understand exactly what you are trying to say. Don't let them get you down. As a 50+ yr old, I understand.
So happy Russell is speaking with Jonathan!!!
Hollywood & Disney puts out crap & destroys iconic stories. 007 Destroyed, Starwars Destroyed, Marvel Destroyed, Indiana Jones Destroyed, LOTR Destroyed, Witcher Destroyed, Lityke Mermaid Destroyed, Snow White Destroyed & the list goes on.
Definitely a cynical dark take that’s wrong, or lacking nuance…. LOTR and the Hobbit are some of best movies ever made, and while reading the Hobbit I already “knew” it perfectly because of the great film making. The Matrix, Hunger Games, some of the new Star War TV series were epic, some not so… etc etc etc Most Marvel is terrible though.
Least you forget ... Disney himself destroyed
@@TheNewMediaoftheDawnlmaoooooo I disrespectfully disagree. Those movies were absolutely garbage
@@Blk9698 well they made billions and were highly rated on IMDB and drew huge numbers of people, so obviously I’m going to listen to a miserable jaded out of touch internet troll here, lmao 🤣👌🥂
@@TheNewMediaoftheDawn yeah they had huge expectations and we all watched because we love lord of the rings. Im not taking someone with out of context numbers seriously. If you liked them I'd say it means you might have the mental capacity of a child.
The true meaning of Snow White?
This fairytale by the Grimm brothers is based on a true, but sad story that really happened.
In 1533 Margaretha von Waldeck is born. Her mother died at her age of 4. Two years later she became a stepmom. Katharina von Hatzfeld. It is written that Margaretha was an outstanding beauty. At the age of 16 her father send her to the court of castile (today near brussels). They say Margaretha did not wanted to, because she loved someone else.
She had to travel over the Siebengebirge ( 7 mountains). She died at the age of 21, on March 15. 1554. There were clues that she was poisened, probably with arsen.
What is it with the dwarfs? In payslips from a mine in 1586 they found out that children had to work in that mine. The village is called Bergfreiheit and it is near Waldeck. Because of missing daylight, the children did not grew normal. They stayed small and aged faster. They say the home of the seven dwarfs is Bergfreiheit, that is why this place calls himself today Snow White village.
Every year on a open stage in Bergfreiheit, they play the fairytale of Snow White. They even have statues from Snow White and the "dwarfs".
Greetings from Germany.
Thanks, for many the Disney version is the real story! They have context and have an origin much older and in a different cultural time
Cool, thank you Han! I didn't know that. Greetings from the Netherlands
What about the dude that wanted to use the dead girl as decoration?
Sad indeed, thanks.
Thank you very much. Very insightful explanation. And I believe you. Thanks.
The true meaning of most things have been hidden.
And redefined and overused......Like the words "Fascist, and narcissist."
Fascist - Anyone who disagrees with the Left
Narcissist - Anyone who disagrees with the Left
Why have they forgotten about Red Rose, her sister?
Christ himself spoke in parables, so just be conscious if you start demanding that truth be spoken plainly. Although there are those that seek to twist, warp and hide it, the truth will prevail.
Destroying the stories that are part of people's collective mind is a way of destroying people's dreams.
Absolutely on point. Your expectations, too, like zombie consumers. I say f them. Their time is up.
it's also a way of demoralising the masses, before ushering in a new world order.....
The modern versions are tradition in a way, but it is not the Bible.
Conquerors debase or destroy the stories and heroes of the conquered. Just saying.
Get over yourself.
• The root of every fairytale is exposing character flaws that lead to evil behavior
• The root of Disney's motivations is money
• The love of money is the root of all evil
It's no surprise why Disney can't tell a great fairytale anymore.
Jonathan rocks hard. I enjoy his intellect and he defends the faith excellently.
I feel like I’m living in a woke fairytale and Justin Trudeau is the villain 🫠🇨🇦🫣
That's "communism" . People say it fails every time, but it does exactly what it tended to every time. A weapon codified by the unnameable middle Eastern imposter tribe behind all globalism.
Trudeau is the villain, but, it's not a fairytale.
Hes not a lord. But he's a real big Farquad.
Same but for me it's the deep state in the US
Meee tooo 🇨🇦…that thing is a demon for sure!
I still don't understand why animations need a live-action if the animation it's already amazing... I'm kinda against this idea, it totally removes the value of our classic animations....
I love Claymation...
And usually the live remakes are just plain unpleasant to look at.
Oh money!
The Alice in Wonderland Re-make made an actual Billion dollars, and they just went from there! Anything else Disney puts out is out (Except Marvel.)isn't really earning any money so... the way to make this stop is to stop spending money on it. They earn soooo much money.
101 Dalmatians did good as a live character film..I liked all three versions. 102 Dalmations I think was the third version.
Why did the Greeks need statues of themselves?
We think the physical world is more real than the spiritual.
This is such an interesting conversation. Love hearing this analysis of the story and looking into deeper meanings of things. Love the discussion of all the symbolism. Also love the discussion about female identity and transformation and relationships. Thank you so much!
You should subscribe to Jonathon Pageau so, he has a really interesting take on things.
@@gpower9572 thank you for the recommendation. I’ll have a look.
You should check out his symbolism in movies playlist.
@@bradspitt3896
New cautionary tales are much needed in today's world, so young people won't be lured into undertaking no longer relevant life trajectories instead of forging their own paths.
Maybe the original authors didn't consciously put any deeper meaning into the storys.
God bless you Russell
I may me going out on a limb here but I'm under the impression that the current Disney sucks. Hard.
The Bible only spoke of a forbidden fruit. There is actually no mention of an apple in particular...
No, but the Christian imagery has [always] been an apple.
@@CleverGirlAAH You are correct. As an artist, I would have chosen a strawberry, but that's just me...
It must be a banana. 😂 but who would have drawn it?
Jonathan Pageau's new Snow White book is beautiful and so much more engaging than recent renditions of this classic fairy tale. My 8 year old son was enthralled and thoroughly enjoyed the story and the beautiful illustrations in the book.
No need for a new Snow White. It's original story should be left alone. Writers should come up with their own stories. Not rewrrite originals with their own twists to it.
@@user-xg6yc8ho3wstories need to be continuously retold. There is no "original" of classical folk tales like this. When I say retold I dont mean subverted like hollywood does, I mean told again
Old folk tales like Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Hansel & Gretel etc., weren't warning so much about the approach of puberty, as they were cautionary tales that addressed the very real (and still prevalent) threat often presented by step parents toward children not their own.
THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH JONATHAN PAGEAU!!!🤗
Show White was way above the plausible feminist already - the top protagonist and antagonist are women of power, while males are supplementary.
👍 I don't understand why more people don't point this out!
But didn't it take a man's kiss to wake her up?
@@stephenproulx175it also means she was so beautiful and loveable that that man couldn't go on without her, that's the power she has over him.
@@IamAnnahi That's true 👍 And plus, it's not really exactly 'about' that it was a man's kiss. It's the power of the affection & chemistry between the prince and Snow White.. I mean, if Snow White were a lesbian or something, then we wouldn't be talking a power-grab, it'd still just be about the dynamic of love & ~its~ power, not women, men, or anyone else 😝✌
Love the insight from Jonathan Pageau!
I say bring back the brothers Grimm stories in all its bloody glory.
sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
Okay, Sigmund
There is a reason why I became a filmmaker to tell non pushed messages! Creating a new original Fantasy Film due out next year!
Disney should at least be honest about their agenda and rename the remake of Snow White to "Snow Not White".
"No White?"
No, the correct title is DIRT BROWN and the 7 FREAKS!! 💯💯
Snow Black and the 7 white dwarfs
In reality, Snow White was a story about the movements of the heavens - the central topic of most ancient faiths. Snow White is the Snow White Moon, who is followed in a line along the ecliptic by the seven dwarf planets.
Show White Moon was given a corset to make her thinner (the Waning Moon), until she appears to die (the New Moon), but then she is kissed by the Sun-prince (a Syzygy-Eclipse), so she wakes up and gets fatter (Waxing Moon), as if pregnant (Full Moon).
Note that the Moon does indeed get thinner and then ‘die’ as it approaches the Sun during a solar eclipse. The Moon is dark and dead, as it slips in front of the Sun in a cosmic embrace - a cosmic kiss.
R
The video was just talking about how we need to get away from materialistic objectification
I hate the what the world is becoming.
I hated things back in 2008 but now I think everyone is seeing more clearly
thanks juice very cool
Since 9 11@@robertmarley8852
@@robertmarley8852 That's just a perception. The polarisation of opinions suggests otherwise
then fix it or leave no need to whine
The meaning of everthing seems lost these days.
in Grimm's story, the comb has poisened spikes, the corset is to make her suffocate... not to enhance her beauty. And the apple has to be tasted by the queen at first, so to make snow white eat ist aswell....
I find it quite hard to go back to any church after what they put me through. Its not that i am not Christian but their hypocrisy & judgement, & not utlizing the greatest gifts found in first Corinthians. There many gifts but the best gift is of Love. This gift should be practised more. Instead they stand in Gods place in judgement, judging what they do not know. Showing their ignorance.
I think I understand but we are encouraged to keep our eyes on our own plate - judging others is strongly condemned. ☦️
Unfortunately religious people are some of the worst when it comes to judging, and condemning. Thank goodness it's not about religion--but rather, a relationship.
Exactly why I stopped going. Too much hypocrisy & judgement. Also too many kiddy fiddlers and if those evil priests get caught, they just get sent far away to another church!
Hopefully Hollywood is getting the message and they will start producing real stories again. Not more soulless multiverse superficial passing-of-the-torch BS
Interesting convo, pay attention to stories and myths, they tell a lot about a culture…🍎
Very much appreciate this conversation.
Pageau & Russel Brandt
Brilliant combo- long time followers of each distinguished gentleman!
WOW I LOVE JONATHAN PAGEAU THANK YOU FOR HAVING HIM
The world needs more Pageau.
Dark parts of the stories are there to teach us and expose us to the darkness of real life. It's not there to instill darkness within us but rather teach us how to deal with the darkness of reality.
1st! I love this duo!
Excellent idea to invite Pageau to your stream! His channel is one of the best things to follow on YT. You should also invite Jay Dyer, he would make for a very stimulating conversation
Wonderful! Thank you Jonathan & Russell and Russell THANK YOU for what you said at 10.29. "...and the primary relationship is the relationship with the self, that the relationship with the self has replaced God, the self has become the deity". That's a very real reason why humanity is in such trouble.... self has become the deity. We are not God... and Praise God for that. When we realize that..... it's kind of a relief! Jonathan's comment that "knowledge leads to self consciousness".... fascinating. The same thing really. Thank you again and Praise God that He is the Great "I AM". 🙌❤🙌
God is within us as well as everywhere else.
✨ Neverland ✨
Such a wonderful conversation.
The whole thing about the fairytales is that they AREN’T supposed to be explained… by following the story without explaining anything more than the story, everyone absorbs the areas in the interpretation THEY NEED… maybe discuss it amongst themselves but by putting a set narrative then it confuses. What it means to you with your life won’t be understood by another person who has utterly different perspective and life experiences.
It’s really important not to dictate the meaning.
May I add that they don't need to be WOKE ?!!
Jordan Peterson led me to Jonathan Paguea and Paguea led me to the Orthodox Church. My life is much more beautiful because of them 🦞☦️
You’ll be glad to know TH-cam just notified me of this interview from five days ago. The working of the algorithm is hard to fathom.
I did chuckle when he sayid he’s recapturing the ancient stories with a joyful tone. I love ancient tales but they were often anything but joyful. I get his point, though.
Just like to point out that the apple is not featured in the Adam and Eve story, necessarily. It just says it was a fruit. No one knows what fruit it was.
The apple has become that symbol, but the origin story does not mention an apple.
Love you, Russell! On your team, Friend!
“But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge”.
Lucifer is the Morning Star, the Light Bringer.
@jamesmorrow1646 id like to know where this quote comes from if possible.
@@unitedstatesofsmash5000 Mikhail Bakunin.
The apple is an egregore
@@jamesmorrow1646 Who?
Hey Russell great job
Hollywood won't stop until the grim reaper from the meme has destroyed every one of our stories.
who chooses?
@@saoirse108The culture machine, Nick name the internet
Proud of you Russel
Who needs meaning when you have a brand
The wisdom here is good. Why all of a sudden on main stream social media can people be honest? Having traditional Christian European values has not been demonized up until when??
Thank you for saying what you said about C.S Lewis, he was a genius. Hollywood is running out of steam, the prestige of the Oscar is clearly bought ( Glen Close loss to GAGA) I think its going to take a lot of talent to reengage the global audience.
Wonderful guest!!!
I never read such depth into a child's fairy tale😮
Snap
I'm guessing they weren't just for children 3 or 4 hundred years ago.
Good conversation. Thank you
I am an NHS NURSE and MOTHER struggling to survive and """I MATTER"""
Share I MATTER with your job and your struggle
and the politicians will have no choice but to listen as we are the people and WE MATTER.
HONEST NEWS CHANNELS WE NEED YOU
The Biblical Genesis story doesn’t talk about an apple. What’s described is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil - which is forbidden. (Apples were then substituted as a symbol for this - and may even be a simple Latin play on words “malũm” (apple) & “malum” (evil). Interestingly, like Jonathan said, Adam and Eve were originally ‘created in the image of God’ and satan/the serpent’s temptation is that if they eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they will then become like God (something they already had).
Both in this and the Snow White story, the main characters are being tempted with something they already have (beauty for Snow White)- and by doing so, the lie was, they are being told they don’t have it already and need to obtain it by their own means.
@@ConontheBinarian Yes absolutely, and your spot on. Totally understand the cultural symbolism here.
Really I just wanted to clarify what you’ve stated; that the apple is only a later cultural addition and not in the original Genesis story as sometimes gets misrepresented. 😉
Thanks again, and thanks for the comment 🧡
Thanks
love this!!
Its not just Hollywood its advertising, its education, it effects every aspect of your life if you let it
I really enjoyed this assessment.
It's not as serious as some of Russell's videos, but very thought provoking, nonetheless!
Fantasic interview!!
This is SO interesting and enlightening. Thank you. ‘The Interpretation of Fairy Tales’ by Marie-Louis Franz was a psychologist who actually worked with Carl Jung.
I just finished the red book. I may look at her work now thanks. 🙏
The correct title of that garage is DIRT BROWN and the 7 FREAKS!! 💯💯
Very cool to see this collab
Excellent discussion ❤
Snow White treated each of the Seven Dwarves like they were A COMPLETE HUMAN, and that's as much as the story even needs to say, DISNEY OR NOT.
Being kind is not the answer to the worlds problems as not everyone can agree on what being kind looks like. Some believe it's kind to lie to people others beleive telling the truth so other people arent livinga
A lie is kind, so if we can't even agree on the basic premise of what being kind is then it's far from being the answer to the worlds problems and just becomes more of a cliche saying that makes you feel good to say it and slap it on a meme with butterflies and sparkles, and maybe makes people feel somewhat morally superior, but it has no practical application beyond that.
@@wondering_stars_in_oz8462 I just realized children start to lie around the age of 5 because they are used to their parents lying to them about Santa Claus before then, so they learn lying is culturally appropriate.
@@RedScotland red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, what color am I missing to make 7?
@@nunontherunnumberonepink ??
@@ericamee5285 Pink is just pale red?
That was delightful.
Mythology and stories evolve. People are naturally resistant to change. The old versions aren't going anywhere
LOVE
I'm lazy and I still need to verify my email when it comes to the rumble account to leave a comment
But I was watching your show yesterday and I lost sound between 17 minutes 40 seconds to 35 minutes in your show on rumble yesterday
Thank you for you and your crew that investigates these possible situations because we're definitely not getting it from anywhere else
Meaning, subtext, parallels. If you're looking for these in your stories, modern Disney isn't the place to find them.
That was so.interesting! Many thanks!
Excellent
The original story will move on and on….we have been retelling stories since the written word…but again tell it better
Super project!
Eve ate the forbidden fruit first not Adam.
In discussing both, the grit and the hope, look no further than the Bible. In your conversation Christianity was brought up. As a Christian, one thing I love is that God included the sin and redemption of those mentioned in the Bible. Letting us see and wrestle with both reveals the need for Christ. The full story is beautiful and relatable. That is where true transformation happens for the Christian believer.
White and Black are ideologies now not skin color
White and black*
A reflection of polarisation and the abandonment of paradoxical nuance ?
I'm looking forward to his take on Top Cat.
Said one mesolithic man
@@thefrancisfrenchichannel8100
Evidently irony is lost on some people.
Said one mesolithic man ironically.
@@thefrancisfrenchichannel8100
Yes.The idea of a highbrow analysis of a bunch of talking cartoon cats, pulling pranks and living in trashcans would be full of irony. Like what is the symbolic relevance of TC wearing a straw boater? Why that hat, why not a Derby or a fedora.
And was TC a symbol of America's restless entrepreneurial energy? Everything is a result of a decision, sometimes the decisions are conscious, sometimes unconscious. Anyway....
I guess we all know what Hollywood really means with "snow-white"....... sniff, sniff, don't we?
lol saying “Hollywood” as if it’s one monolithic source is so funny!
It's a generalisation with an element of truth. There is a line that must be toed. Most/all directors/script writers will tell you this. The sponsors call the shots (usually. There are repercussions otherwise).
God's blessings from Bay City Michigan
I got my stickers! ❤
Thank you
Xoxo
The juice hate all things pure and beautiful.
Disney's versions of these fairy tales were clearly aimed at disenchantment and taking away the meaning from the classic timeless tales. Time to reawaken thru reenchanting.
Merry Christmas Russell Brand. Love everything you promote and your humour. Power to the people and more power to you. 😎 We stand with you , with freedom of speech, and support realism with you. Happy New Year bruv.
How dare he accuse us of watching Netflix and porn...I'm personally offended by this accusation...I don't watch Netflix..!!
Thanks man
every story familiar. Bleached of feeling. Special affected till neglected. Dragnet has more feeling.
I don't like Disney today and did not grow up on Disney but was able to watch Snow White and Cinderella. I loved both. Both is about a distinction between good and evil. In the end Good won and they lived Happily ever after.
Pageau got be back to church. Love him.
For the group that claimed dread locks were cultural appopriation they sure don't mind appropriating the suffering of jews, the legacy of the egyptians and culture of the west.
These original movies were powerful to a young mind. They taught us good and evil. The villains were often quite dark. You can't really improve on them. Master animators spent endless amounts of time creating these masterpieces. They brought the characters to life cell by cell.
Not to mention even the colors chosen were very methodical.
I agree, these fairytales are meant to be dark for the reasons you said. In ancient times they were simple teaching tools, and not direct dos and don'ts. The deeper meaning to be revealed to the hearer just when they need it or are mature enough to understand.
They only ridiculed themselves !!
I WAS BORN IN CALIFORNIA IN 1963 AND I'VE BEEN TO DISNEY LAND, BUT I WOULD NOT STEP WITHIN A HUNDRED MILES OF CALIFORNIA NOW!
I used to love reading my kids the real Grimm's tales, like when the vultures came and plucked out the eyes of Cinderella's sisters, and the stepmother was sodomized by a group of hobgoblins.