The REAL Reasons FM No Longer Builds V8s (FM Live)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- We've gotten a lot of media attention this week with the sale of our V8 shop car on on Bring A Trailer. This week on FM Live, Keith Tanner answers questions and quells the rumors surrounding our V8 program. Learn the real reasons we discontinued building V8 cars. They may not be what you think they are.
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#KeithTanner #V8 #conversion #LS3 #truth #QandA #tech #talk #ND #miata #rumor #FMLive #Live #video #weekly #FM #FlyinMiata - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
As a past customer, i truly appreciate FM's integrity and honesty about this situation. Level-headed answers don't draw click-throughs on a news site, but they do engender trust and respect from customers. When I'm back in a Miata, I'll be back for FM go-fast bits :)
that's what I did. 23 years between Miata's, and as soon as I had my new to me 2003 LS in the yard, I ordered stuff from FM. Now... if only the turbo kits were in stock. I tease, that would be too much right now.
Don’t be sad cause it’s over. Be happy cause it happened.
Bob Marley's
It scary in the beginning. Sadness at the end.
But everything else is worth living
That’s a hard pill to swallow….but your right…..unfortunately….begrudgingly…….
Why not both bruh??
Meh I’d rather be sad
But it didn't happened to me 🥲
It was obvious you were moving on from the V8 swaps for quite some time. You had no parts available for a NC V8 cooling system I purchased from you but were honest over the why and pointed me in some directions to find what I needed - and I appreciate that honesty versus the "out of stock" to just stall any announcement of direction change. I do hope you continue to grow and make great parts for the cars we love; of which some work even if a different engine under the hood.
Thank you for addressing your situation with honesty. We need more of this.
Thank you for such a candid explanation. I'm too old and too poor to do more than fantasize about a V8. I think my daily driven NB could stand some tweaks and upgrades. I'm glad you are doing what makes sense.
Thank you Keith, it's so refreshing to have a company speak so directly and honestly with consumers. There'll be a miata on my channel soon and I'll definitely be checking out Flyin' Miata parts 👍
So the ND will go on but under someone else's banner? Did I got that correct? I hope so. That R&D you did for the V8 conversion shouldn't be lost. I wanted to suggest selling that to someone or to clients as digital blueprints but if someone else will carry on the mantle I'm happy to see it. I hope you guys will develop more crazy stuff in the future.
Since iNDy was released, I've dreamed of having a swapped 124 Spider..also now discontinued. I love the look of it and love the idea of an FM LS swap under the skin.
Some dreams are best left as such. Thanks FM for always dealing with integrity and bringing some wonderful things to life.
Also my dream. 😔
I have thought about this also, i have a 124 with a ton of custom parts. If the engine goes, i very well may be looking at something else to stick in there and a cammed ls1 is certainly on the table.
Well that was a informative, thank you. I wish the process for getting EOs was more accessible. I find it especially annoying that I can add fuel injection and a modern cat to say an 85 caprice and drastically improve it's emissions, but it's technically illegal because I removed the carb and original computer.
Hard to make money on a technically complex project when you only sell 40 cars over a period of years. Only way for that to make sense is to charge Ferrari prices.
Thanks for taking the time. It’s not boring at all.
Obviously you are keeping the forced induction stuff close to the chest right now. I'm considering getting the MiataSpeed Edelbrock ND2 supercharger kit, but I've been a big FM fan, and would prefer to support FM if I can. Can you confirm whether your new forced induction project is going to include support for the ND2?
2008 to 2019 ish
So 40 cars
2 exotec
5 nd’s
Yo-yos don’t do journalism anymore.
That was fun.
Hopefully that makes them worth more. Haha
Thanks for all the help when I acquired mine. Will always keep in mind your most important tip. “Avoid stabbing the throttle”.
You guys are amazing tech and resource for the Miata community. I have followed you guys for years and even if I chise to keep my nb with no mods I honestly enjoy your views and the videos you have published.
That being said, I understand the sensible business decisions you have made nowadays in this highly opinionated media society.
I thank you for your openness and honesty.
I will be open to buy from you guys publish some kind of book or media with a collection of best of per model or something like it. It will be a good archive reference of your work and love to the miata family.
God bless you guys and hope you the best success in your upcoming ventures.
How about making all the wiring diagrams "open source"? Will be a good resource for anyone trying it on their own.
The challenge wasn't the wiring, it was the programming of the gateway. To program the gateway, you need to use some very non-open source programs and hardware so it wouldn't do anybody any good if we published the code. We will continue to make the gateways available but don't have any plans to release our software.
Please keep us posted on the new company that will be producing ND V8 swap parts! I currently have an ND and would love to have an LS in it!
Also thank you Flyin Miata for working with another company to have your designs available to another company for the public to enjoy!
I’m in the same boat. Patiently waiting
This was a heavy one.. but what ever you will find to put to market we (as a miata community) will love, like everything so far!.. Thank you for such an honest and passionate support, the things you do put to market have been outstanding so far!
Thanks so much, we truly appreciate the support of the community and customers like you!
I was glad to visit back in 2018 and look forward to visiting again in the future.
Your commitment to Miatas and developing new parts (not a cheap endeavor!) keeps you at the top of my list for my ND!
Thank you! We appreciate that!
We got away with this stuff for so long and then the Coal Rollers came along and ruined it.
Good job Jalopnik for real journalism.
Great video FM. That's a very cohesive and reasonable explaination for the business decisions you've made.
It's a bit sad that there were not enough of us who love the idea of an LS motor in an MX-5 for it to be an independently viable part of your business.
Though even if they had been flying out of the door, the threat of the enforcement of emissions control regulations would mean that it would always be precarious.
7:38 oh so I was 100% right yet again 👍
Regarding the EPA; the regulations need to be changed or amended. Countries like the UK and Australia have emissions regulations but they allow for ECU and exhaust changes, as long as have a catalytic converter. It can be aftermarket. As long as the emissions test-out within government specifications, then you're fine.
That's the case in the US as well. That's exactly how you get an EO, you go through all the tests to prove that the parts meet the emissions specifications for the vehicle. But it's not a simplified partial test like you can do at a local testing station, it's the same series of tests the manufacturers have to undergo. Doing a partial test means you're not really meeting specifications. The real tests include things like fuel line permeability and a wide range of operating conditions including cat light-off time on a cold soaked car.
I totally understand your business reasons. "Fast nickels vs. slow dimes", meaning as a viable business, you need to track 'turns' on your money. It's a simple concept, but many businesses don't get it and it shows by the depth of the dust on any given part in inventory.
Soooo. Forced induction? ND2??
I’m looking forward to the new intake system!
I have a V8 Solstice. It passes all the emission requirements in Colorado. Great car. Was inspired by watching one of your Miata's
Sounds like a fun car!
You used to have a step by step guide for the build, is it possible to get these guides/manuals along with the parts list?
I know the CAN led digital cluster was a big project associated with the NA V8 project. With the discontinuation of the V8 program, does this also mean the digital cluster will also be postponed or scrapped as an idea?
That wasn't really related to the V8 project, it just happened to be originally installed on Keith's V8 track car. There's version running right now on a bone-stock 1990 and the final prototype PCBs are in fabrication now.
@Flyin' Miata Cool! I'm looking forward to seeing the final product and all it's available functions.
Refreshing. Thank you
Thanks for posting this!
I put a voodoo 2 kit on my 2002 SE, bought all the extras except the radiator because it was in development in 2011. Wish I had bought the 3” exhaust and Hydra at the time. There is simply less products available from FM. This is based on the EPA and fear. Wish it was different, I’d like to support them, but there isn’t much to do. I have to use other companies to mod the car and keep it going. 39 years is a long time to keep a business, must find new ways.
I could be wrong or they could have changed the laws, but when doing a engine swap a few key points
1: the engine must be one model year newer than the car being swapped.
2: the catalytic converters have to be vary close in location (or proximity) from the donor vehicle (like a inch of wiggle room), using factory manifolds or federally accepted headers or in ca or ny carb approved headers made for the doner vehicle
3: I'm not sure of other states but in ca you have to have exhaust under 92 or 96 db or something sissy la la quiet like that
4: running the engine manigment ((pcm)ecm)and associated parts n pieces, due to gm and other making alterations difficult or near impossible to their engine manigment, and technically illegal to modify and or tune the engine manigment, secondly to that the gm direct injection on the lt engines throws another wrench into the situation but if the gm gen 5 sbc is the only one small enughf to fit a nd and be one model year newer than a nd this could be another part of the equation ???? Tuning emissions is probably a big part of the feasibility yes or a small part like stated in the video
Your spot on w rules it sounds like. DIY swap in a same or newer MY donor motor and the ECU from the donor. At the end of the appointment w the CARB referee they will print a sticker for firewall or door jamb that displays the VIN for the donor car/ecu and your chassis vin. So swapped vehicles in CA that are registered w state correctly have 2 vins for now on.....motor vin /chassis vin and the whole process is like $22? 😂. ..must be running the factory ECU that interfaces w OBD stuff and throws codes etc; the expensive part is doing the swap, not the certificate part with the state. I talked to a few peeps w CARB swaps here in CA and as long as you have cats and they don't throw codes and the car sniffs within spec for that MY they dont trip out or ask questions or can see stroker kits, head work or small cams. One guy had a 6.0 Lq9 in a 3rd gen 4 runner w carb approved headers, stroker and mild cam 😂 still smelling clean
Man I'm glad nun that mess matters were I live ... if it has lights signals tires n wipers pretty much here your good 😅 but I'm also not flaunting to attract bad vibes tho either so its one them tit for tat things cuz I garontee if I was cause a sceen n being a dumby with the stupid street takeover idiots then yeah they be on me but respect goes along way to the real ones .. peace n love bro keep it rad stay safe and build on l8z
The NB with tan top behind the ND sold on bring a trailer....what color is that?! Love it, assuming its custom I have not witnessed before. Thank you love y'all
Ian, that's a 2001 Special Edition, so it's British Racing Green with tan leather and top. That SE pkg also came with the wood steering wheel, shift knob, and pb handle. That particular car got the LS376/525 engine, dyno showed 457 rwhp. I'm the current owner and every single drive is a joy. There are many bad ways to stuff a big engine in a tiny car. But what Keith & team did with these builds is astonishing. [THANKS FM TEAM!] Obviously acceleration is shocking. But more impressive is how well it all works. It defies logic. It's happy to run errands, take you to dinner, or soil your passenger's undergarments on command. Just turned 21k total miles last summer, about 7k on the V8 build. Zero problems. Sad that they stopped building these, but understandable. FM are an excellent team and they will continue to be a valuable resource to the Miata community.
Glad I was born in FL. 60 years ago. I lived in NY a couple of years and Arizona a year but when I returned to FL. 26 years ago I realized it is the best place in this country to live if you prefer to think for yourself.
Thanks for watching!
I used to sell used RX7's to the guy in Thousand Oaks, Ca who would swap them into Suzuki Samurais. He also made the "Monster Miata".
It's OK, Monster Miata has some diy kits you can do for a NA or NB v8 swap....
Thanks, Keith!
So a compound boosted 427ci stroker on E--85 is out of the question?
It's sad to see how the lack of integrity in modern 'media' is affecting all walks of life.
As cool as a V8 Miata is, I'd rather add lightness in the spirit of Lotus. I do have my eye on a turbo system. PS I recently ordered some parts from FM and they got here so fast I couldn't believe it.
Just because the main reason was not EPA this time it doesn't mean that that was not going to happen. Look at PFI speed EPA fined them $30k + for selling modified ECUs not installing selling. It seams like it set them back quit a bit if not almost destroyed their plans for the last few years.
So Project Thunderbolt was a beautiful snapshot in time and probably won't be repeated. That makes it even better.
Project Thunderbolt wasn’t one of our builds. It was done by the owner using parts from a number of sources including FM. It could probably be repeated today.
Yeah I know. Tom bought plenty of FM bits for it. Anything can be done, but your parts were a big help at the time. Apart from the transmission tunnel welding it was pretty much bolt in!
Would love to buy a Flyin Miata intake system for my stock NB2.
I'm surprised FM didn't respond to you.
I knew those Diesel guys were the ones that started the new EPA crackdowns lol smh
Yeah those stupid ass hillbillies that had to “roll coal” to impress their redneck friends. Literally as I’m typing this, a guy in a beat up on dodge ram just went around the corner and rolled coal. Any rational person would think they don’t want to breathe that smoke in
Could you put all your build logs back onto the website?
If that’s the case why did you drop the Link ECU, Hydra or any ECUs f F or the Mazda Roadster platform?
The Link was dropped years ago as it became obsolete. The Hydra was retired because there was no way to make it emissions legal, like any programmable ECU.
But can we still get those differential housings/ subframes for the corvette diff? lets just say i want to go racing and stress my car less.
There's another company that has purchased our designs, they will be offering them to the public. Be aware that if you swap out the diff for the Camaro/G8 one, you will also need the halfshafts, a custom driveshaft and some way to support the transmission. You won't be able to use the V8 parts for the last two because those were designed for the T56 Magnum transmission and not the Miata one.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thank you for your reply!
I won't worry about shorter halfshafts etc. the wheels are moving forward in the chassis. to accomodate for other geometric changes. The drive shaft change was always going to be a given variable.
Have fun in your future projects!
@@rat_king- It's not so much shorter as the fact that the spline dimensions are different on the GM stuff than on the Mazda diff. Good luck, send us pictures!
@@FlyinMiataVideo Still collecting measurements, im afraid and theoretical dimentions for parts. lets just say. id rather not have a project car sitting on stands for months, but rather have loads of parts connected together, then find a donor car. that way, things like insurance road tax etc. are non-existant, till 60% of the build is ready for a shell. it also stops me from reassembling the car 8 or 20 times to fit the 1 part each time.
Flyin' Miata. Respect.
Will you ever sell LS mounts or V8 kits for the ND Miatas?
We still sell the control electronics, but we sold the designs for the hard parts to another shop.
Keith, a serious question: if a customer commissioned you to do another ND swap again, would you do a one-off?
No, for all the reasons outlined in the video.
They were all built at customer request. Lack of demand was never the problem.
@@FlyinMiataVideo so even money no object wouldn't allow it then? That really sucks. Would you recommend that people try integrating the black box on their own now? Or is that something that simply can't happen anymore (regardless of who does it)?
@@spdcrzy We still sell the gateway for DIY builders, and we sold the designs for the conversion parts to a shop in Florida that will go public when they're willing to take orders. Contact our customer service team for details.
flyinmiata.com/products/flyin-miata-can-interface-for-nd-v8-miatas
@@FlyinMiataVideo okay, I wasn't sure from your wording in the video if it was just "based" on your work or if they were actually taking your design wholesale and restarting the production process eventually. This is great information. Thank you!
BTW: "Suspension should suspend" is one of my favorite quotes of all time. :P
Where can I go to get the same LS3 v8 motor kit swap done? Who to order from? Max-5 ND 2022
Please reach out to our customer support team directly via phone or email, they should be able to give you some recommendations.
Did you get an answer?
It's a Dam shame to stop the V8 FM.
Bummer, but as a business, your decision is understandable!
Thanks again
California is like that kid in school who lets the teacher know they forgot to give us homework.
People will do anything to be "first"....sad to see them go, but sensible people understand and realize the world is changing.
Thank god! It’s still a Miata at the end of the day that’s why
The words "alternative power adders" very interesting
Yeah, I get it. Business is business. I've been wanting one of your v8 kits so I could do it myself. It's sad to see it go before I was able to do it. I'm not sure where I heard about you guys first it might have been from Matt Fiera(I know I'm butchering the last name or somewhere else. But since then I've been wanting to do something similar if not that exact thing. The concept of small and powerful. We can say it worked for Carrol Shelby(R.I.P.). I think we can also say it's true of flying miata. You kept up the work, now just keep on going.
You can still get the parts you need from V8 Roadsters and do it yourself.
Farah
@@jeffvanburen9879 They also will build you one if not a DIY you are looking for.
Ok if they make ev Miata's with 60 kw pack using any of the Tesla motors is would be amazing . Or Suzuki Jimny 2023 versions 4 or 2 door ev conversion .
Can someone still do a v8 swap with you guys if they buy all the components needed to do it?
Our shop is dedicated to R&D, we don't work on customer cars.
@@FlyinMiataVideo thanks for the response
Definitely got to stay in business. And that really does mean must have a profit, so you can do future research. Which I hope you manage.
We made this change more than three years ago. It's been working well.
Rolling coal... Not cool
Just because you said that ima do a diesel swap Miata and put smokestacks.
The length people will go to own the libs is pretty rediculous
@@fortheloveofnoise9298 coal rollers are small men
Regarding the emissions, CA law allows any engine from a more modern platform than the original to be swapped in. Meaning a modern FI V8 from a newer year than your Miata can be swapped in. Some will consider that a major limitation, some not so much.
As far as I know, there is one FM V8 registered in CA without any problems. But this does not matter. There are too less enthusiasts who are willing to pay the price for this car.
@@Thomas-nq1kn Yep, not saying this would be the FM pathway, plus it would require all of the electronics and other emissions devices to be fully compliant. I've not done a Miata V8 but I've done a few others and you basically start with a wrecked donor car and take everything from it. tbh My preferred path is to just start with a pre-75 VIN and go nuts. No inspections or compliance in CA for those and you can make it into whatever car you want. Might sound crazy but The Kustom Kar culture started in and is still alive and well in CA and this is how we do it.
Will a V6 Miata satisfy the EPA mandate? Maybe the Honda 3.5 V6. They rev to 7k rpm and has a great top end. I’ve seen a stock 3.5 Dyno 270hp at the wheels. An Unboosted engine is just so much more satisfying.
It would be a similar amount of work to get it legal as it would for the LS engines. The number of cylinders isn't really a factor.
The real question is, why aren't you building slant six Miatas?
Are there going to be any more NA turbo kits?
If there aren't NA turbo kits on our site, they will be back soon! We have no plans to discontinue our Turbo kits.
Matt here from the future. Totally off topic but, what are your thoughts on a K swap? Is there a specific reason why you don't have swap kits? I look at Flyin Miata as the golden standard for Miata mods and I'm assuming that you have a valid reason for not having K swap kits.
We never intended to offer every possible swap, but to do one and do it well. One really nice thing about the LS swaps is the fact that the entire drivetrain is understressed, so it's a very complete package. GM's parts bin also came in very handy.
The K is a fun engine for sure, but with the LS cars underway we simply weren't looking for another option. We already had our turbo kits for four cylinder power.
@@FlyinMiataVideo makes sense. The turbo kit has the better dollar per HP compared to the K swap. Both achieving similar numbers.
@@FlyinMiataVideo i just pray that one day turbo kit will have a restock
We’re trying!
Part of the problem with a lot of engine swaps is that it’s about the same amount of work and expense for any of them unless it’s a direct swap. So, people tend to go big if they’re gonna do it.
More ND parts, woooo!
Plz look into Rockstar body conversion kits.
I’d rather he just say you guys aren’t buying enough to keep us in business. It doesn’t take 14 minutes to say that. All us na, nb, and nc guys are poor. That’s why we drive them. Plus most of us would understand.
That wasn't what he said. He explained it pretty clearly. At least the majority of us understood what he actually said in the video.
@@houseofno If he just said the truth, it would piss off lots of his customers, so he said the same thing in a roundabout way. He can't make enough money doing what he did before. Why is that? see above.
The LS3 ND sold on Bringatrailer for$100k. Sounds like there's some money to be made on these swaps.
Probably cost them 99k to make
@@Jacky1Feng not even close
Sure, it's just a $20-$30k donor. $55k worth of parts. I'm sure you could build it with $25k of your time and tools. 🤣
Especially the FM cars were designed and built to drive and act like a factory car. All that adds up to a lot of expense in the building of it when you want stuff like the gauges to work right and the thing to not overheat in traffic.
It’s always funny when someone swears their build only cost $37.95 but they’ve never added up the cost of parts or their labor.
thanks. it's tough when you have to make grow-up decisions.
Keith, you note in this video that you were only contacted by Jalopnik, but yesterday Road&Track posted an article which quotes you extensively. Did R&T contact you after you made this video and posted it to TH-cam?
R&T contacted us after posting their original article and I had a few long conversations with their writers. The most recent article is the result of one that took place after this video was shot.
Their initial article (blog post, really) was done without contacting us. Of all the blogs that reposted it, only Jalopnik did any checking.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thanks Keith!
I wonder if they've ever put a VR6 in a Miata. I'm not saying it is a good swap, but given their roots, it had to occur to them at least once.
No :) Our goal was never to do any possible swap, but to do one well. For a number of reasons ranging from new parts availability to packaging, the LS engine was our choice.
So no cummins swap kits in the future?
jesse prather did an ND LS.
Probably the same reason Shelby stopped building cobras…too dangerous for the average American driver.
Hope FM can develop a 350hp add on for the ND . ?
Has been companies Pathfinder car been released yet? If so can you give us details on the company
Look for an announcement from them in the next week!
I have been a huge FM and NB miata fan for over a decade. I disagree with everything you've been doing since employees became part owners, a business cannot be run like a democracy, there has to be a leader and a clear strategy. One of FM BIGGEST STRENGTHS was that the company developing and selling the parts was also installing them and modifying the cars in house. When you called to ask for help, you could speak to a mechanic. All I see now, is an online parts distributor, like many others. The V8 program was an unique way to advertise the business and demonstrate the depth of knowledge of FM, it should have been kept in place, perhaps partner with another shop for the installs but keep it alive. OR, hire 1-2 mechanics to just run the service shop. Sadly FM is loosing what it was at the core. Jeremy, Keith and the rest are business managers now, not "professional" miata enthusiasts. FM could be selling toasters. 🤷♂️
One of most miata enthusiasts dreams was always to send the car to FM and just have them turn a regular miata into an amazing machine.
I agree. The employee takeover is right when they stopped doing everything cool.
Dang so we really are reaching the end of gas powered cars huh… smh I’m glad I got a few good ones before they go away.
I hate the idea of a silent car.. the sound is my favorite part. I get that electric stuff is quick but look at all the down sides …. Massive down sides.
Imagine having to stop for an hour every 3 hours on a road trip … no thanks. It can go self drive itself off a cliff lol.
I understand and I’m pretty sure I never would have been in position where I would have owned a v8 swap. Still I must admit I’m sad to see it go from FM. I understand and it makes perfect sense… but ( sigh ) there goes another fantasy. I just feel like another endangered species went extinct.
Plz look into swap kit for current 2.5L turbo from Mazda to ND. Lots of torque and more HP to unlock.
CarBuzz reached out to you but didn't receive a response
Out of all the "Journalists" that reported on this story only one contacted them for comment.
This is why journalists get no respect anymore. Pathetic.
Makes sense
I met Keith at FM like 19 years ago now ... is that possible? We've both gone gray :)
Better gray hair than no hair!
@@FlyinMiataVideo that hits a little too close to home :)
Would love a supercharger and a bikini top for my ND2
Please make lift kits for an ND miata. The biggest reason I don’t have one is how hard it is to get in and out of them. A 6” lift would be sweet to make it easier for egress along with a better car for daily driving through our snowy months here in Minnesota.
You should check out Paco Motorsports ;)
This seems to be a long winded way of saying that there wasn't enough demand for V8 swaps to justify continuing to offer them.
That's why we were long-winded, to fully explain. There was no lack of demand.
Can i have a martini plz?? 🎉😂❤
Having owned 3 Miatas in the past I am an enthusiast of the motors and trans. However, I work adjacent to a company that makes battery packs and converts vehicles to electric power. It is definitely the future with amazing performance but I would miss the sounds and the fun of rowing through the gears.
One car is getting a 500 hp electric motor that is going into a Miata differential and I'm surprised that it should take the torque. There are other cars in the shop that will have amazing performance and I applaud your decision to start going electric.
Always about money 🤷🏻♂️
“It wasn’t as profitable as we hoped” - you would saved us 14min
Haha! All FM videos are like that! .... (the next day) no, I take that back - I just watched another two that were fine.
I understand …… but its a sad world we live in.
I would love to see electric retrofit kits if there is a market for them. I almost pulled the trigger on the V8 swap about 10 years ago but work life got in the way. I now have some free time and might go with the exocet or kart style with my NB but a DIY electric kit with about 200 miles range in the summer would move to the top of the list.
No
SEMA was loaded this year with aftermarket electric stuff. So, it’s not out of the question. Especially when the Miata 5 speed is a pretty common trans for use in other stuff. Wouldn’t be hard for someone to basically make a kit to stick an electric motor on the trans with some mounts to hold it all together.
I like the idea of Restomoding cars.
A Miata with a modern 5.0 Coyote motor would be pretty cool.
However, a Miata with dual Tesla motors would be insane, and there would be zero emission.
With the EPA and CARB set to force the large volume manufacturers to go electric and only electric, I gotta say this crack down on the small volume segment really bothers me. Is it so much to ask that we petrol heads still get to enjoy a tiny handful of these cars? Serious question: are there any U.S. Congressional representatives who would be interested in passing law which ensures that at least some of the auto industry can still cater to auto enthusiasts and not just the NRDC, Sierra Club, and other environmentalists? If so, please let me know.
just curious; did you watch the video?
Coal rolling...see? This is why we can't have nice things...