Did you KNOW there was a new HiPower ammo type? What do you think of it? :) Alpha 20 NEWS and UPDATES Playlist:🔗 th-cam.com/play/PL5Z54hiemOAvbB44cASLUyFX7_chOgqLw.html
I like the random HPs of the zombies. That is very nice. There are more hidden changes in the gameplay. The wandering horde seems much more dangerous and different loot- and difficulty-level of POIs is very nice too.
In older alphas of 7DtD i have 2 guns in my belt and painted one gun red and the other black and use HP ammo only with the red gun and AP ammo with the black gun. With this i dont waste ammo and can switch very fast vom HP to AP and back.
Logically, I would set the HiPower to use 1 more gunpowder (like a +P round) and the AP to use 1 more tip (or a special steel tip) instead of the other way around.
I would agree that makes more sense logically, but the costs as they have them make more sense in the game. Lead is easy to find and mine, so an additional lead cost is very easy to cover. Gun powder takes more resources and until you get the chem bench is slow and expensive to make, which makes it much more expensive to the player early-mid game so I think the costs make sense in that regard.
Yes, logically you're probably right. I think they did it this way due to progression, so that you can switch over to HiPower rounds more easily, as lead is plentiful, gunpowder is not :) Game logic and all that ;)
@@Vedui42 I disagree that hollow point was bad. At high difficulties(say nightmare), hollow point was very much needed to deal with radiated and stuff. The only zombie it did bad against was soldier zombie(demolishers only show up at bloodmoon). Now i can't even imagine how many bullets it would take to kill radiated zombies in nightmare.
Yes, powder = power. HP ammo with only a heavier bullet makes much more damage on unprotected target and much less on good amor. It makes the bullet slower and the range goes down but you can use a silencer, if the bullet is subsonic. AP ammo can penetrate armor and the hole zombie (or wall) but it only makes more damage by hitting a second target. Normal ammo makes normal damage at unprotected targets and less at someone with armor.
Definitely gonna run with AP 44 in a DV, and probably regular 9 in an SMG. And just swap guns based on target. But the 'high power' ammo at least is perfectly viable now. Possibly preferable if you have a lot of lead.
Tell me about it! At first I didn't realize they spawned with different hp...and it took a while to figure out what was going on... ended up editing that out of the video as it served no purpose :D
Being a gun enthusiast and a gun owner I think it's safe to say that the HiPower bullet is always what HP stands for in this games sake which is the games equivalent to hollow points in real life which are insanely powerful against unarmored targets or it could be soft points which are jacketed but the bullets nose has the lead exposed so it'll deform easily upon impact
Compared to the Hollow Points of A19, these make more sense. HP in A19 was so useless against armored targets, that mid-late game they were bad to use as you'd end up having to reload ammo type mid fight all the time.
@@Vedui42 true which is why I had an AK47 or an M4 with hollow points an M60 for regular bullets and a marksman or sniper rifle for AP bullets since in late game even unarmored radiated zombies were more common than any armored zombie apart from the soldier zombie also since I said I'm a gun owner I also know that AP bullets are steel tipped bullets in real life, steel casings were just an alternative in A17 if some players couldn't find brass but I notice the tool and dye set is still in the game despite not being used in a forge so If they add steel bullet tips for AP which would be realistic maybe the tool and dye set would be a good requirement for the forge to make steel bullets let me know what u think.
Hollow points were much better against all but soldier zombies so no, hollow point was terrific at nightmare. They saved u atleast double the bullets in nightmare
Nice test as always! It's a good change i think. I DID however love how the old 'Hollow Points' did massive damage to un-armored zed's. HP doing more dmg than AP against 'squishy' targets was a cool idea. In practicality though, switching ammo type/weapon per zombie type was to much of a hassle. So a justified change imo.
I accidentally made a bunch of these thinking I was making AP ammo, glad to find out if they’re still useful. Edit: I’m so happy I didn’t have crap bullets. It’s not AP but can do more damage with the new bullets cause hollow points was paying extra for a nerf, especially in the situations u would probably need it.
Double the lead consumption for only 10% increased damage. I'm never using HiPower after this, especially since by the time you unlock them, you've either already unlocked AP, or are just about to. They just aren't a good investment.
I do think the damage probably should increase more. Say 20-25 %, as then they'd work even later game :) normally lead isn't a huge issue to collect a lot of though.
I like the new Hi-Power. Hollow point was almost useless in Alpha 19 unless you were just hunting. I think Hi-Power should do the same damage as armor piercing though, 20% extra. I think the bonuses of armor reduction and target penetration are enough to warrant AP ammo once you get to the stage where you are fighting zombies with armor. Also I think it would make more sense if HP ammo required extra gunpowder instead of extra lead, and AP required extra lead. I don't understand why high-power ammo would require more lead? Actually I think AP should require an amount of iron. Steel would actually be more appropriate, but you would have to craft bundles that way because 1 steel ingot is way too much. Maybe 10 rounds per steel ingot. I think it would actually be cool to have a step-up system where you start with normal ammo, either found or crafted. Upgrade to HP by adding gunpowder to normal ammo. Upgrade to AP by adding steel to HP ammo. Even if crafting from base components were still an option, I think the upgrade system would be nice. I would like to see a change to scrapping too. Currently 9mm and 7.62 give brass and shotgun shells give lead. Maybe 7.62 should give gunpowder.
There is already cotton and acid in game, possible they can change progression by having the ability to make higher power and smokeless gun cotton (nitrocellelose) later on with Chemical station instead of just using black powder for making HiPower rounds?
Poor audience could not into 3 types of ammo. That was an interesting thing to decide which bullets to use in each particular case. Now what? Casual casualty. I think Twitch insisted.
@@Vedui42 With a marksman rifle that was the only way to complete lvl 5 missions in a stealth mode. One shot one kill (I used to play with a reduced corps damage, so only head shots really worked). It made a certain sense to craft that ammo. Now two types will be useless.
I kinda liked the old HP ammo, perfect for sniping anything but bikers, soldiers and demos. Demo has 60 armor btw, soldier 50, biker 30 or 40, construction worker 20.
It's not :) Hollow Points was fixed in A19.6, but when it did work as intended it was also quite useless especially late game where you got so many armored zombies. And I think they realized, and decided to remove it, and introduce something which does work even later on.
I have one question, do you know where are the item names in game? Cuz I would like to change 7.62 ammo name just to rifle ammo, It feels wierd to use ak47 ammo in tactical rifle kept in ar15 style
The easiest way to achieve what you want is to copy the Localization.txt, and put that copy in your mods folder. Then, change the 7.62 ammo name there. This way, you won't have to redo it each time the game updates, and it will work on servers you don't host (localization is always on the client side). Now bear in mind that you'd have to modify multiple lines if you want coherence/consistency (not just the item itself, but everywhere 7.62 ammo is mentionned : skills, books, perks, journal entries etc...)
@@HawkNButterfly thanks for help. I even created a post on steam about simplifying ammo names, because it feels wierd to use m4 chambered in 7,62 somewhere in arizona, USA, where every sildier uses 5,56 NATO caliber. Now I know how to change this names to keep the consequence, shotgun ammo doesn't have a specified caliber, so why other ammo types should have? Hope devs will do something about it.
Not true. Saves are NEVER wiped by the game. They just might or might not load cleanly. A19experimental to A19stable saves loaded fine if I recall :) One of the updates had a change in armor values so you had to repair all the armor, but that was easy to get around.
I disagree that hollow point was bad. At high difficulties(say nightmare), hollow point was very much needed to deal with radiated and stuff. The only zombie it did bad against was soldier zombie(demolishers only show up at bloodmoon). Now i can't even imagine how many bullets it would take to kill radiated zombies in nightmare.
I guess you do have a point there! I never did insane difficulty, due to the bullet sponginess. But you're right, at that it would perhaps shine more. :)
Iiiiii dont really... like this... the thing abojt the alpha 19 and earlier ammo. Was it was situational... if you came across unarmoured Z's, use HP, they have armour or your HP not doing enough damage? Switch to standard or AP when applicable. The old system encouraged preparation and active thinking and situational awareness... This new system is... BiGeR BOOlEt GooD! ... why... why water down a good system... it wasnt broken. You just fixed it... CAN SOMEONE MAKE A MOD TO REVERT THIS CHANGE?
Hello Keth! The problem was HP ammo was not accessible early game, and mid-late game it was useless. You'd do so much less damage against armored targets, I believe 0 against demolishers, that it never got used vs AP ammo.
@@Vedui42 interesting... but i play in a team wtih my friends on stream. With myself being the designated architect/miner. But i used to carry HPs all the time... it was my primary round... i never noticed a problem. So long as my gun was properly maintained they worked fine for me... And when they didnt play nice i just switched to normal rounds... Then again im known in the group for 110% commiting to any task im put to... My 6 level deep branch mine that is 90m in diameter is sort of evidence to that... and i dug the first two levels with good ol pickaxe and shovel. I just put on 'Sixteen tons - tennesse ernie and diggy diggy hole'd. i often enough ended up fighting Z's in my mine... those twitch viewers... sometimes they can be a sadistic lot...😅 I just worked on the assumption that if i shot the parts of the z's body that didnt have armour, or didnt have armour of rhe side i was blastin' it i was doing max damage...
the only way for them to buff hipower ammo is to give it 50% stagger to enemies, making it good for high ammunition guns, cause slowing them while hitting them is the best part
A bit of stagger might be nice actually, just if it's balanced.. or maybe giving a short 2 second 15 % slow debuff or something. :) That way sustained fire will slow enemies down, but it won't last and be overpowered. Interesting idea!
So ap ammo is just space saving. Teo normal rounds do more damage than a single ap round, but the single ap round takes twice the mats (brass not included)
Did you KNOW there was a new HiPower ammo type? What do you think of it? :)
Alpha 20 NEWS and UPDATES Playlist:🔗 th-cam.com/play/PL5Z54hiemOAvbB44cASLUyFX7_chOgqLw.html
I like the random HPs of the zombies. That is very nice. There are more hidden changes in the gameplay. The wandering horde seems much more dangerous and different loot- and difficulty-level of POIs is very nice too.
While I love the random HP also, I can just imagine the heck that it plays with things like this, where you would like it to be optimized.
In older alphas of 7DtD i have 2 guns in my belt and painted one gun red and the other black and use HP ammo only with the red gun and AP ammo with the black gun. With this i dont waste ammo and can switch very fast vom HP to AP and back.
Great informative video, haven´t noticed this new chance. I honestly prefer like this, can see myself using the HP much more now!
Thank you Joao! I do like the new HiPower rounds!
Logically, I would set the HiPower to use 1 more gunpowder (like a +P round) and the AP to use 1 more tip (or a special steel tip) instead of the other way around.
I would agree that makes more sense logically, but the costs as they have them make more sense in the game. Lead is easy to find and mine, so an additional lead cost is very easy to cover. Gun powder takes more resources and until you get the chem bench is slow and expensive to make, which makes it much more expensive to the player early-mid game so I think the costs make sense in that regard.
Yes, logically you're probably right. I think they did it this way due to progression, so that you can switch over to HiPower rounds more easily, as lead is plentiful, gunpowder is not :) Game logic and all that ;)
@@Vedui42 What are your thoughts balance-wise on if the AP round required 1 steel instead of a lead tip?
@@Vedui42 I disagree that hollow point was bad. At high difficulties(say nightmare), hollow point was very much needed to deal with radiated and stuff. The only zombie it did bad against was soldier zombie(demolishers only show up at bloodmoon). Now i can't even imagine how many bullets it would take to kill radiated zombies in nightmare.
Yes, powder = power. HP ammo with only a heavier bullet makes much more damage on unprotected target and much less on good amor. It makes the bullet slower and the range goes down but you can use a silencer, if the bullet is subsonic. AP ammo can penetrate armor and the hole zombie (or wall) but it only makes more damage by hitting a second target. Normal ammo makes normal damage at unprotected targets and less at someone with armor.
Next they gonna have to work on the turrets so we can use the ammo, need new turrets that we could use magnum ammo and 762 ammo
I'd like better turret... a 7.62 turret would be great.
@@Vedui42 that one should be a mini-gun
Definitely gonna run with AP 44 in a DV, and probably regular 9 in an SMG. And just swap guns based on target. But the 'high power' ammo at least is perfectly viable now. Possibly preferable if you have a lot of lead.
Thanks for the ammo update info. Good job.
My pleasure! I think it's a nice change personally!
I feel bad for you, doing damage tests with randomized health zombies is going to be a pain in the future.
Tell me about it! At first I didn't realize they spawned with different hp...and it took a while to figure out what was going on... ended up editing that out of the video as it served no purpose :D
Very excited for more of these types of videos from you
More to come Blaine!
Thank you for all the time and effort you put into your videos, your guides like this are amazing.
I like this ammo progression method
Thank you John! A lot of people seemed to have missed this change :)
Glad I could drop that ammo crate on you for the reminder! Hahah
Now if only they could adjust flaming arrows
Exploding arrows/bolts seem ok in A20 :)
I was wondering which ammo to use, thanks for answering my question :-)
Being a gun enthusiast and a gun owner I think it's safe to say that the HiPower bullet is always what HP stands for in this games sake which is the games equivalent to hollow points in real life which are insanely powerful against unarmored targets or it could be soft points which are jacketed but the bullets nose has the lead exposed so it'll deform easily upon impact
Compared to the Hollow Points of A19, these make more sense. HP in A19 was so useless against armored targets, that mid-late game they were bad to use as you'd end up having to reload ammo type mid fight all the time.
@@Vedui42 true which is why I had an AK47 or an M4 with hollow points an M60 for regular bullets and a marksman or sniper rifle for AP bullets since in late game even unarmored radiated zombies were more common than any armored zombie apart from the soldier zombie also since I said I'm a gun owner I also know that AP bullets are steel tipped bullets in real life, steel casings were just an alternative in A17 if some players couldn't find brass but I notice the tool and dye set is still in the game despite not being used in a forge so If they add steel bullet tips for AP which would be realistic maybe the tool and dye set would be a good requirement for the forge to make steel bullets let me know what u think.
The Hollow point rounds were awful, glad to see the change. You're a fountain of knowledge Vedui, much appreciated!
I agree! Once they got fixed, it was clear they weren't useful later game at all :) Thank you!
Hollow points were much better against all but soldier zombies so no, hollow point was terrific at nightmare. They saved u atleast double the bullets in nightmare
FunPs if you're watching incendiary rounds one day maybe?
i'd be using Hipower when possible. Great vid Vedui.
I'd love incediary rounds. Heck explosive rounds too!
@@Vedui42 hehe the wonderful chaos they could cause.
Nice test as always! It's a good change i think. I DID however love how the old 'Hollow Points' did massive damage to un-armored zed's. HP doing more dmg than AP against 'squishy' targets was a cool idea. In practicality though, switching ammo type/weapon per zombie type was to much of a hassle.
So a justified change imo.
Yeah. Maybe even bump to 20 % extra dmg
yep i noticed this change and i have to say i was happy with it :) great video mate :) 👍👍
Yeah I like it! I think it makes sense, and improves progression!
you should release a video on the bows and crossbowns they are extremly op this alpha
I believe they buffed arrow/bolt damage, which is probably good :)
I accidentally made a bunch of these thinking I was making AP ammo, glad to find out if they’re still useful. Edit: I’m so happy I didn’t have crap bullets. It’s not AP but can do more damage with the new bullets cause hollow points was paying extra for a nerf, especially in the situations u would probably need it.
Yep! They're still good!
Love the video, got a question on a different subject thou I'm hearing that the farming has been screwed up is that true
Yes...farming is screwed. I'm gonna have to make a video to cover it, because it needs changes.
@@Vedui42 ya im hereing it's still viable but only if you have totally specked into farming that the only way to turn any sort of profit
I heard a regular zombie would now have HP randomly generated between 100 and 150 hp
Yep! You don't realize it as easily in normal gameplay as you don't see the hp! But nice!
Double the lead consumption for only 10% increased damage. I'm never using HiPower after this, especially since by the time you unlock them, you've either already unlocked AP, or are just about to. They just aren't a good investment.
I do think the damage probably should increase more. Say 20-25 %, as then they'd work even later game :) normally lead isn't a huge issue to collect a lot of though.
I like the new Hi-Power. Hollow point was almost useless in Alpha 19 unless you were just hunting. I think Hi-Power should do the same damage as armor piercing though, 20% extra. I think the bonuses of armor reduction and target penetration are enough to warrant AP ammo once you get to the stage where you are fighting zombies with armor.
Also I think it would make more sense if HP ammo required extra gunpowder instead of extra lead, and AP required extra lead. I don't understand why high-power ammo would require more lead? Actually I think AP should require an amount of iron. Steel would actually be more appropriate, but you would have to craft bundles that way because 1 steel ingot is way too much. Maybe 10 rounds per steel ingot. I think it would actually be cool to have a step-up system where you start with normal ammo, either found or crafted. Upgrade to HP by adding gunpowder to normal ammo. Upgrade to AP by adding steel to HP ammo. Even if crafting from base components were still an option, I think the upgrade system would be nice.
I would like to see a change to scrapping too. Currently 9mm and 7.62 give brass and shotgun shells give lead. Maybe 7.62 should give gunpowder.
There is already cotton and acid in game, possible they can change progression by having the ability to make higher power and smokeless gun cotton (nitrocellelose) later on with Chemical station instead of just using black powder for making HiPower rounds?
That might've been an interesting change! Not being a gun person, how would that make ammo better? cheaper to make? more reliable? etc?
My pistol doesn’t recognize 9mm hp as ammo it's like I have none
Weird. Even holding "R" to reload and choose ammo type?
What are the 2 purple guns in your inventory top right
Those are dev mode only guns. One destroys all blocks, the other kills all targets. Useful for making videos, but of course not in survival.
Poor audience could not into 3 types of ammo. That was an interesting thing to decide which bullets to use in each particular case. Now what? Casual casualty. I think Twitch insisted.
I kinda didn't like Hollow Points before, as mid+ game it was much better to just go all armor piercing. :)
@@Vedui42 With a marksman rifle that was the only way to complete lvl 5 missions in a stealth mode. One shot one kill (I used to play with a reduced corps damage, so only head shots really worked). It made a certain sense to craft that ammo. Now two types will be useless.
I kinda liked the old HP ammo, perfect for sniping anything but bikers, soldiers and demos. Demo has 60 armor btw, soldier 50, biker 30 or 40, construction worker 20.
I think the issue was progression. When you could mass produce ammo, going all AP was worth it, as it could be used in any situation.
Did you know that you can pop up two gun the same level and they will have diffent power
It can make a difference for the bullet
Yes stats are random within a range in certain attributes:)
I heard this is just bugged ammo from previous versions that the devs rebranded as a new feature.
It's not :) Hollow Points was fixed in A19.6, but when it did work as intended it was also quite useless especially late game where you got so many armored zombies. And I think they realized, and decided to remove it, and introduce something which does work even later on.
Me: *never uses anything but base ammo*
More headshots it is
:D AP has always been better, if you can pump them out in bulk!
idk if its just my game, but breaching rounds dont do anything at all outa the pipe shotgun
Haven't found any so early! So doesn't damage chests?
@@Vedui42 not for me no. at all lol. regular amo works obv and the breach loads worked in the pump still
I have one question, do you know where are the item names in game? Cuz I would like to change 7.62 ammo name just to rifle ammo, It feels wierd to use ak47 ammo in tactical rifle kept in ar15 style
The easiest way to achieve what you want is to copy the Localization.txt, and put that copy in your mods folder. Then, change the 7.62 ammo name there.
This way, you won't have to redo it each time the game updates, and it will work on servers you don't host (localization is always on the client side).
Now bear in mind that you'd have to modify multiple lines if you want coherence/consistency (not just the item itself, but everywhere 7.62 ammo is mentionned : skills, books, perks, journal entries etc...)
@@HawkNButterfly thanks for help. I even created a post on steam about simplifying ammo names, because it feels wierd to use m4 chambered in 7,62 somewhere in arizona, USA, where every sildier uses 5,56 NATO caliber. Now I know how to change this names to keep the consequence, shotgun ammo doesn't have a specified caliber, so why other ammo types should have? Hope devs will do something about it.
In the localization as someone highlighted is probably the best place :)
and what about the shotgun ammunition?
It never had hollow points :D I think shotgun ammo is the same, looked the same from a quick review :) regular, slugs, breeching.
Completely unrelated but is it true that my A20 saves will be wiped when the version goes stable?
Probs, thats the risk from playing unstable.
Edit: You can always try ofcourse, aslong you not getting errors you fine i guess.^^
Not true. Saves are NEVER wiped by the game. They just might or might not load cleanly. A19experimental to A19stable saves loaded fine if I recall :) One of the updates had a change in armor values so you had to repair all the armor, but that was easy to get around.
@@Vedui42 Thanks for clearing that up! My dad and were worried about everything just completely disappearing outta nowhere.
@@Vedui42 yeah i read it wrongly my bad, you exactly explained what i thought in my head tnnx^^
I disagree that hollow point was bad. At high difficulties(say nightmare), hollow point was very much needed to deal with radiated and stuff. The only zombie it did bad against was soldier zombie(demolishers only show up at bloodmoon). Now i can't even imagine how many bullets it would take to kill radiated zombies in nightmare.
I guess you do have a point there! I never did insane difficulty, due to the bullet sponginess. But you're right, at that it would perhaps shine more. :)
What about shotgun ammo?
Shotgun ammo seemed to be same as A19 :)
@@Vedui42 According to the patch notes shotgun shells are now effective against armored opponents. Is this true?
"lets pretend he died".. i laughed
Haha, well he had so little hp left!! ;)
Iiiiii dont really... like this... the thing abojt the alpha 19 and earlier ammo. Was it was situational... if you came across unarmoured Z's, use HP, they have armour or your HP not doing enough damage? Switch to standard or AP when applicable. The old system encouraged preparation and active thinking and situational awareness...
This new system is... BiGeR BOOlEt GooD!
... why... why water down a good system... it wasnt broken. You just fixed it... CAN SOMEONE MAKE A MOD TO REVERT THIS CHANGE?
Hello Keth! The problem was HP ammo was not accessible early game, and mid-late game it was useless. You'd do so much less damage against armored targets, I believe 0 against demolishers, that it never got used vs AP ammo.
@@Vedui42 interesting... but i play in a team wtih my friends on stream. With myself being the designated architect/miner. But i used to carry HPs all the time... it was my primary round... i never noticed a problem. So long as my gun was properly maintained they worked fine for me...
And when they didnt play nice i just switched to normal rounds...
Then again im known in the group for 110% commiting to any task im put to...
My 6 level deep branch mine that is 90m in diameter is sort of evidence to that... and i dug the first two levels with good ol pickaxe and shovel. I just put on 'Sixteen tons - tennesse ernie and diggy diggy hole'd.
i often enough ended up fighting Z's in my mine... those twitch viewers... sometimes they can be a sadistic lot...😅
I just worked on the assumption that if i shot the parts of the z's body that didnt have armour, or didnt have armour of rhe side i was blastin' it i was doing max damage...
the only way for them to buff hipower ammo is to give it 50% stagger to enemies, making it good for high ammunition guns, cause slowing them while hitting them is the best part
A bit of stagger might be nice actually, just if it's balanced.. or maybe giving a short 2 second 15 % slow debuff or something. :) That way sustained fire will slow enemies down, but it won't last and be overpowered. Interesting idea!
The next logical step is, that a silencer only works with the red HiPower ammunition, because it is subsonic ammunition :)
They won't do that ;) But yeah... silencers in games are the hollywood type which makes it super quiet ;)
That type was already in game. Previously known as HP ammo. Not new item, just new name.
No its a new ammo type. Go compare yourself. You'll see you're wrong :)
No, Vedui tested that in A19. You can find videos of that. The HP ammo was in A19, but as i remember it has no extra function.
Two is definatly a lot more than one.
Ved speaking truth since 2020 XD
Is it just me that finds ap ammo weird in that it uses lead tips XD
So ap ammo is just space saving.
Teo normal rounds do more damage than a single ap round, but the single ap round takes twice the mats (brass not included)