Outlander 303: the crowded bedroom

[@Pama013]

She still suffers from trauma what Jack Randall did to her and Jamie. When she sees Frank she sees all what has happened, so she could never again love Frank like she did before.

[@ouissalmilles5333]

She can't possibly love Franck coz she's in love with Jamie

[@janeivyren3268]

That's right, I think that's exactly what's happening here. Frank is a victim.

[@launabanauna496]

I don't believe any of that, it's just that Claire's true love and soul mate was a Highlander from 200 years in the past. It was nobody's planning and nobody's fault, it just was, what it was, and they were all left to try and make it work out as best they could.

[@jujubegold]

@@janeivyren3268 Frank isn’t any more a victim than Claire. In fact they made him more sympathetic in the tv version vs the book. He could have divorced but he was selfish and wanted Bree. Claire may have returned to Jaimie earlier were it not for Frank.

[@Redbird_Girl2010]

@@jujubegold Why was he so stuck on keeping Bri? She was from another man and he never wanted to adopt a child. I think the only reason he hung onto Bri was to divide Claire from her memories of Jamie.

[@pompe221]

I think this just goes to show what a very messy tangle their lives are. Nobody is blameless, nobody is the complete villain.

[@Cassandra765]

Exactly. And it's really tragic on all ends that their lives ended up this way.

[@ally1827]

For me I couldn’t believe that she would try to love Frank after Jamie which it why Frank so bitter BUT if you knew Black John would you even try to make it work. Frank has family traits in beating people and things up.

[@ShackyWack]

Claire could never let go of Jamie. She gave Jamie so much of herself that she had nothing left to give Frank. They should have divorced when she got back. Claire needed time alone with her baby to mourn and heal without the pressures of pleasing another man.

[@bicarbonat1]

This is the most solid observation. If Claire had been in a less fragile state (I imagine she clung to Frank as the most familiar support she had left), she could've insisted on a divorce before she was showing.
Once Frank had a chance to love that baby - especially considering their past fertility struggles - it was game over. Their lives were entwined.

[@rowanaforrest9792]

It wasn't as simple as getting a quick divorce, especially in that era. Claire had just had the shock of traveling 200 years through time again, and was pregnant, and was mourning the loss of Jamie. She was in no situation emotionally, psychologically, or financially to immediately support herself or fight for herself and the baby in family court. As awkward as the situation was, it would not have been realistic for her to ask for a divorce anytime soon after her return.

[@user-xg4ue5by5o]

she sure dropped frank like a hot potato without a second thought... Why not?

[@worldinperson]

In the books it's made clear that Claire tells Frank to divorce her, but he doesn't want to. He told her it wouldn't be appropriate to leave a pregnant woman alone.
And when Brianna was born, he definetly didn't want to leave HER.

[@Paulasantos.]

@@worldinperson That was his mistake..wich made his misery .

[@ambrerongione4554]

This scene really broke my heart... It really shows how their lives got complicated...
I’ve read some comments where people are debating on who’s to blame for their failure of a mariage but in my opinion it was doomed from the start with the conditions they’ve set. Expecting from Claire to just move on from what she experienced was unrealistic because Jamie was not the only part of her life back in the 18th century, she have gone through so much, being attack, almost raped ( on more than one occasion), the loss oh her first child, the war... all of that changed her. In episode 15 of season 2 she actually says that she is not the same person she once was, so when she got back she just wasn’t the same and I think Frank just expected things to go back to the way they were, I don’t blame him but it was just an unrealistic demand, that affected Claire deeply and in the long run it even affected her relation ship with Bree.
What I found irritating in this scene is that Frank just blames Claire when they both had a part in their own unhappiness. She kept her promises to him, when she traveled back the first time she tried to get back but in the end she fell in love with someone else, frank was her first love but jamie was the love of her life and she couldn’t fight agains it.. But after the birth of Brianna she tried to be his wife again but that just doesn’t work...
She feels guilty for the marriage not working and the fact that she couldn’t be what Frank wanted her to be, so she offers him an out and he don’t want to take it which is understandable because he is afraid of loosing his daughter . But it is his choice and maybe Claire was okay with that because she didn’t want to loose the only other men she loved in her life.
And to the people saying Claire is selfish and that she left her child behind to find her own happiness, even when she finds out where Jamie is she decides to stay in 1968, Brianna is the one that tells her to go so that’s not being selfish... anyway that is just my opinion

[@aumelb]

The thing is, Frank's and Claire's marriage was already strained when they got back togethers in 1945. When they went on their "honeymoon" in Inverness, they were basically strangers who were trying to reconnect and get to know each other after several years apart during WWII. Claire was already not the same young woman he had married. She had had a lot of traumatic experience as a battlefield nurse. He was no longer the same pre-war man, either. Claire's own admission was that sex was the only way they still felt connected.

[@everygorgeousmoment]

Ambre Rongione yeah, they desperately needed couples therapy - leave out the time travel bit but Claire went through an ORDEAL. Even if it hadn’t happened, ww2 would have been enough of a difficulty in their marriage bc they had changed so much

[@joslynhill3529]

I agree

[@doraadam5484]

1st :Bree was not HIS daughter I strongly disagree with that.2nd:when a marriage comes to an end both parties are to blame.Their marriage was condemned from the beginning otherwise Claire would never have fallen in love with another man.Frank wanted his wife back but you are right...that woman never really existed.

[@makindreamscometrue5792]

And the fact that.....frank is NOT the true father.....so she could fight that issue

[@teenyverse7707]

Best quip "I think our bedroom is far too crowded already, wouldn't you agree?"

[@NWCountryGirl17]

"Forgive me Claire if I don't risk everything on your promises, you have not been very good at keeping them." THAT That Right There!! is why I do not feel sorry for Frank at all like AT ALL He Agreed to this deal he knew from the get-go that the Claire that came back was a vastly different person than the one that disappeared (Personally I'd argue he never truly got her back After WW2 but that's another point altogether) Bottom Line You can't agree to a set of rule expecting and hoping that they'll change and then be resentful when they don't

[@methosimortal]

except that the promise was that Claire leave Jaime behind and live in the present with Frank. which she never managed to do. Was it unrealistic for Frank to expect her to do that? Sure. But it was also selfish of Claire to agree to it. You guys always act as if Claire was held prisoner in her marriage to Frank when the reality is she made a calculated decision to stay with him in order to ensure stability for herself and her child.
They both hurt each other over the years and to pretend it was all Frank because you have an underlining need to make Jaime out to be the better man out of the two is a very superficial way of dealing with a storyline of a toxic marriage where both parties are adults and make choices that damage themselves and each other.

[@NWCountryGirl17]

@@methosimortal She tried to push him away when she came back He REFUSED to Go. He made her promise to stop looking into the past then like the hypocritical liar he is He dug into it found out Jamie survived (and knew of other dangers to Claire and Brianna) and said NOTHING about it. he used the daughter he claimed to love as a bargain chip because he couldn't control Claire any other way.
Then when the clock ran out 10 years after this he finally said "I want a divorce" and threatened to take Bree with him we don't have to TRY to make Jamie the Better Man he IS THE BETTER MAN

[@methosimortal]

@@NWCountryGirl17 no one held a gun to Claire's head to make her stay with Frank. she stayed because she wanted to. it was more convenient for her to stay with Frank than be on her own. it's not like she was interested in trying to find someone else she could love. she was still stuck in the 17th century with Jaime and Frank provided stability and a connection to the present she needed in order to be semi-there for her daughter.
you pretending like she had no choice doesn't change the fact that she used Frank as much if not more than he used her.
also please stop combining book Frank with show Frank in order to form an argument. they are different characters because the show chose to make them different characters.

[@NWCountryGirl17]

@@methosimortal fine but my basic statement still stands a BLIND Man could see that the Claire that came back was different than the one that went away the more she was obviously pulling away and working to grow on her own the more Frank tried to hold tight and the more resentful he got
And I'm not combining Book and Show Frank (I didn't bring up the racism or sting of mistresses) He DID still use Bree as a bargaining chip

[@methosimortal]

@@NWCountryGirl17 he's using Brianna as a bargain chip how exactly? what is he getting in exchange? ... oh, that's right: NOTHING. Frank stays in the marriage because he's afraid he will lose Brianna if they get divorced. Claire stays because ... well, it can't be because she can't get a divorce. she can get a divorce even if Frank doesn't want one and she's Brianna's mother so she isn't afraid of losing her. So ... it must mean that, despite everything, she wants to stay married. And in truth this marriage is a far better deal for her than it is for Frank which, again, is why she stays.

[@HP1818]

I feel bad for them both but she gave him plenty of chances to walk away and she was willing to have joint custody with Brianna. So, Frank blaming everything on Claire is bullshit

[@sidartaccd]

she made promises ,and she didn't kept them

[@Cassandra765]

That's kind of where I am as well. I felt bad for him at first because he really was trying to get their marriage back and she wasn't giving him much in return. But Claire also gave him a couple of chances to get out of the marriage and he continually chose to stay. He really needed to accept his decisions instead of putting it all on Claire.

[@VAMR-vc7xg]

Frank also gave Claire chances to get out too. Claire chose to stay.

[@Cassandra765]

True, but she's not the one placing all the blame. She's not parading mistresses around at their parties in order to embarrass him and she's not the one who wanted to take Bree from him. His decision at the end was so cold and spiteful and the perfect way for him to get back at Claire.

[@pommepeche7710]

To be honest, I really feel bad for Frank and I think Claire, even if she has redeeming qualities in other contexts, was an awful bitch with him.
First of all, in the first season, she suddenly falls in love with another dude and COMPLETLY forgets him (yes, Jamie and Claire's love story is romantic and cute and all but let's not forget how awkwardly she suddenly forgets she is married to Frank and BAM, starts to love Jamie).
Then she magically comes back to him after 3 years so he can help her raise her child (he did agreee and since he can't have one it was somehow good for him too but he doesn't make me admire her decision as well).
She completly pushes him back afterwards when he has been nothing but supportive and nice to her the first years.
He stayed to be with his daughter whom he loved like his own and OF COURSE he was not gonna settle for Claire's promise of a joint custody: Claire has broken all of her promesses so far, each time he gets screwed.
The poor dude died young, and didn't even get a chance to really spent time and marry a woman that loved him, that's tragic.
Not to mention he didn't even have to die for the purpose of the plot, because we all know Claire is gonna go through the stones and abandon Brianna so clearly Brianna could have gone to England with his father. Tragic, tragic end for such a great guy. Clearly I would have liked to see more of him he seemed always very interesting (because he was very real, not just a perfect fantasy guy that does eloquent and brave things) and Tobias Menzies is really good. I hope somehow he will get to reappear in flashbacks.

[@dianeovercash6739]

Tobias Mensis, brilliant performance.

[@everygorgeousmoment]

Frank should have told Claire about the obituary. He could have been like, look I got a job offer in England. Jamie is alive and you can go back to him. I will make sure Brianna is okay but you can finally be with him.
I think she would have at least been a bit more receptive to the idea that he wanted to take Bree to England with him.

[@kristinesharp6286]

What claim does he have on Bree?

[@kristinesharp6286]

@@giuliapicchiotti it was documented she was missing for years prior and during conception. It’s not hard to prove the child isn’t his.

[@xaviervega468]

@@kristinesharp6286 He dosen't need one, Bree was 18 by that point. Frank knew bloody well Bree would choose him over Claire, as he did the heavy lifting in raising her.

[@bigrivtodagled8210]

But wasn’t the obituary fake? I read the book a long time ago but I do remember that the obituary was his idea so they could travel to England…

[@ScorpionFlower95]

The "you are no good at keeping your promises" part was gold

[@user-xg4ue5by5o]

Claire and woman her type just disgust me; without Frank she would be nothing in 1948... What she did to him was cold and calculated. She rejected him multiple times in season 1, and had no problems jumping in bed with Jamie every chance she gets without a second thought for Frank or wanting to be faithful. When she was presented with the
opportunity to go back she again rejected him and stayed season 1 and 2.
Frank Randall was treated like a sucker; he lived for Claire and she spit on his face every chance she gets... Better man than I, I WOULD Hear her story in season 2, and tell her to
go F herself and let her raised her bastard child without a second thought. Instead, Frank gave her 30 years of his life for nothing . a total waste... and after the Briana generation Frank will be forgotten. Never love, Never respected, Never lived..... Everything Frank did for she took full advantage 1948-70... Never give your all to a woman, scars they leave is deep ad no one with give a care afterwards
Frank actions in the books are justified and, in the Series, ... He did no wrong except loved a thotty.
People calling him raising another man’s child as strong .... nope its weakness and sucker move.
I got a feeling she never told Frank, Jamie gave her a chance to come back in season 1, but never refused after she had heard Frank's pain/cries for her through stone because she was
upset with Jamie... she never truly wanted to come back home...
I also believe, she would never met Jamie if she was not with Frank.. and that is why she protected the the Randall legacy by begging Jamie not to fight Jack Randall.... it was out of selfishness, not love for Frank...
I blame Frank also....for taking her back... he should have moved on and let her to fend for herself and go to America by himself I am sure the preacher would have help her in some
capacity or she can go back to the 1740's again and let her cards fall where they may ...
Frank story was undeserving, and his line ended. And he gave the final moments of his life to woman who took
everything he had to give; but gave him nothing back.
This would at least give Frank some closure and stops him from wandering where she is at.

[@namjoonsoldmyjamsfor3dolla404]

fuk me chill bro

[@OscarTahr]

Sh1t but he is a great actor. The best in this show and that is saying something. The range he can deliver perfectly, from Black Jack to Frank here, on to his character in Game of Thrones. Complete spectrum, delivered utterly convincingly

[@mattsmoviemagic8123]

what's so sad about this is that they were once truly in love and happy together *prior to everything that set it off the whole story. If they wanted to they could have set made it off that they were never right for each other from the very beginning. But the fact that they were once happy together just makes this all the more tragic.

[@StoriesForSlumberASMR]

What a conflicting concept between these two individuals. He loves her with all of his heart, wants to at least see if the marriage goes somewhere, it’s a hardship with the fact that he now has a daughter to raise, and Claire knows it, couldn’t give her heart to anyone else anyway since she loves Jaimie, so what are they to do? Neither are to blame. I think they are both desperately holding on to something that they both need. As toxic as it is, it just IS.

[@slcRN1971]

Very well stated comment. 👍👍🙂

[@mokachyna22]

Everyone acting like Frank is some saint is really bizarre to me. Claire is offering to divorce him and allow him to see Brianna. He’d rather stay in this loveless marriage and continue to string Sandy along?
Frank is the selfish one. He wanted Claire, he wanted Brianna and he kept Sandy on the side to soothe his fragile ego even though by all accounts she was in love with him. Not nice.

[@josipkreso9962]

He doesn't want Claire, and it was clear both to him and Claire that the marriage was loveless. But as he'd spent last 20years or so caring for Brianna, he didn't want to risk losing her on a shallow promis, and that's why he didn't agree on the divorce, which is pretty reasonable

[@xaviervega468]

He didn't want to risk losing Brianna. Frank is correct that Claire hasn't been terribly good at keeping her promises.

[@Paulasantos.]

I feel so sorry for Frank..he was so sweet 🖤💔

[@mokachyna22]

Sweet? He was using Sandy. He’s an asshole and a liar.

[@Paulasantos.]

@@mokachyna22 He was suffering...

[@hannavercelli8099]

This is why i cant hate Frank. Yes, he is a typical man for his time when it comes to Claire's job, but he is undeniably loving to his daughter, (a daughter that isnt his) which is still a rare thing, and he decided to stay with Claire, sacrificing his own happiness, even though he didnt have to, for her. He isnt a perfect man, but he is real and better than others

[@TheYouy89]

Honestly I love Frank so much, he's such a good person it's just that the situation was an impossible one. Had it been in 2018, divorce would have been a no-brainer and single-motherhood although difficult, very possible. Both of them are hurting here, no one is exempt from feeling betrayed or whatever, and I guess this is why if you really think about it, Frank isn't a bad guy at all

[@slcRN1971]

@@TheYouy89 : I don’t believe Frank was a bad guy either, he just wanted more than Claire was able to give him. Marriage isn’t easy to begin with and neither is most people’s lives. You can only strive to do the best that you are capable of and try to work out any troubles/issues as they occur.

[@debrajenkins5390]

Edmure Tully LOL

[@mokachyna22]

Claire and Frank had already been apart for 5 years when she fell through the stones. That’s a long time to be away from someone. They both were already used to being apart. That was no one’s fault but explains why it was easier for Claire to move on with Jamie, even after trying to get back to her time.

[@slcRN1971]

Yes, i believe that WWII experiences had changed their marriage and they didn’t seem to have any great passion for each other. That war changed so many people. My stepdad went through some very awful experiences in WWII while fighting in the US Navy..... in the Pacific. He had some terrible nightmares, that bothered him for the rest of his life.

[@zoet351]

i feel sorry for both of them

[@user-xg4ue5by5o]

nope, Claire tried Frank.....frank was the sucker!

[@Paulasantos.]

@@user-xg4ue5by5o he suffered a lot...living and loving a woman and not being corresponded...he should never had accepted her back with another man in her heart and mind..and pregnant with other man child.. there are no men in world who accept that, and they were in the forties.

[@user-xg4ue5by5o]

@@Paulasantos. point exactly, plus allot of people vilify him for trying to stave off loneliness both in the book and series.

[@Paulasantos.]

@@user-xg4ue5by5o It's true, people only see Claire's side, but Frank should have divorced her, and get a woman who loved him ..with or without Brianna..
I love Claire, but i understand and feel sorry for Frank. He deserved more..🖤

[@ahavens2463]

Yep. She ended up finding her true soul mate through no fault of her own.

[@elizabethmalec3575]

Que buenos actores!!!me encanta esta serie👍

[@zomkitty8686]

I don't understand why Claire didn't take the baby and go back to Jamie WAY beforehand!???

[@nikaylamordue3581]

She didn’t know that Jamie was alive after Culloden yet and didn’t know whether Brianna could travel through the stones.

[@monaesolomon9534]

@@nikaylamordue3581 she could have double checked

[@launabanauna496]

Sorry but, how could you say that? What about Frank's feelings? What about Brianna's feelings?

[@TheBreezieanaChronicles]

@@monaesolomon9534 and @nikayla mordue you obviously never watched the show or read the books. Frank only agreed to take Claire back and be a father to Bree as long as Claire did not look for what happened to Jaime. He got rid of her clothes she was wearing etc and told her she had to forget Jaime. That was his ultimatum. She only agreed to it because she knew her going back to a safer time and to Frank was what Jaime wanted. She actually kept her part of the bargain (which is why it bothers me so much when he says she doesn't keep her promises.) She didn't check because Frank made her swear/promise not to.

[@monaesolomon9534]

@@TheBreezieanaChronicles I don’t give a damn lmao. She never even had to go back to frank as soon as she went through the portal she could have waited for the battle to be over. Which would have been like what an hour ? Or two ? And gone back through the stones and stayed hidden until she knew whether or not Jamie was really dead. And if he was then she could go back to frank

[@lapenskierosemary4322]

Claire should have raised Brianna by herself but there was an agreement with Frank. Claire is strong enough. It was just not the best choice but that was 1949 ? or so, not 2018 !!!

[@aumelb]

She couldn't have raised Brianna by herself in 1940s-1950s! She couldn't even divorce Frank if she wanted. People commenting here about how Claire could have "just" divorced have no idea what they are talking about.

[@xaviervega468]

She maybe could have raised Brianna on her own, but their quality of life would have been absolutely dreadful in that era. No way in hell would she ever been able to go to medical school.

[@P3891]

Lapenskie Rosemary
Frank was a wonderful father to Brianna. You’d want poor Brianna to be raised without a man who loved her despite the fact that she wasn’t his? Shame, shame on you

[@user-xg4ue5by5o]

Claire and woman her type just disgust me; without Frank she would be nothing in 1948... What she did to him was cold and calculated. She rejected him multiple times in season 1, and had no problems jumping in bed with Jamie every chance she gets without a second thought for Frank or wanting to be faithful. When she was presented with the
opportunity to go back she again rejected him and stayed season 1 and 2.
Frank Randall was treated like a sucker; he lived for Claire and she spit on his face every chance she gets... Better man than I, I WOULD Hear her story in season 2, and tell her to
go F herself and let her raised her bastard child without a second thought. Instead, Frank gave her 30 years of his life for nothing . a total waste... and after the Briana generation Frank will be forgotten. Never love, Never respected, Never lived..... Everything Frank did for she took full advantage 1948-70... Never give your all to a woman, scars they leave is deep ad no one with give a care afterwards
Frank actions in the books are justified and, in the Series, ... He did no wrong except loved a thotty.
People calling him raising another man’s child as strong .... nope its weakness and sucker move.
I got a feeling she never told Frank, Jamie gave her a chance to come back in season 1, but never refused after she had heard Frank's pain/cries for her through stone because she was
upset with Jamie... she never truly wanted to come back home...
I also believe, she would never met Jamie if she was not with Frank.. and that is why she protected the the Randall legacy by begging Jamie not to fight Jack Randall.... it was out of selfishness, not love for Frank...
I blame Frank also....for taking her back... he should have moved on and let her to fend for herself and go to America by himself I am sure the preacher would have help her in some
capacity or she can go back to the 1740's again and let her cards fall where they may ...
Frank story was undeserving, and his line ended. And he gave the final moments of his life to woman who took
everything he had to give; but gave him nothing back.
This would at least give Frank some closure and stops him from wandering where she is at.

[@user-xg4ue5by5o]

It's Frank Choice yes, but Frank, the sucker, should never took her back in the 1st place... he could have prove infidelity the moment the baby hair turns red and be done with her.
Claire and woman her type just disgust me; without Frank she would be nothing in 1948... What she did to him was cold and calculated. She rejected him multiple times in season 1, and had no problems jumping in bed with Jamie every chance she gets without a second thought for Frank or wanting to be faithful. When she was presented with the
opportunity to go back she again rejected him and stayed season 1 and 2.
Frank Randall was treated like a sucker; he lived for Claire and she spit on his face every chance she gets... Better man than I, I WOULD Hear her story in season 2, and tell her to
go F herself and let her raised her bastard child without a second thought. Instead, Frank gave her 30 years of his life for nothing . a total waste... and after the Briana generation Frank will be forgotten. Never love, Never respected, Never lived..... Everything Frank did for she took full advantage 1948-70... Never give your all to a woman, scars they leave is deep ad no one with give a care afterwards
Frank actions in the books are justified and, in the Series, ... He did no wrong except loved a thotty.
People calling him raising another man’s child as strong .... nope its weakness and sucker move.
I got a feeling she never told Frank, Jamie gave her a chance to come back in season 1, but never refused after she had heard Frank's pain/cries for her through stone because she was
upset with Jamie... she never truly wanted to come back home...
I also believe, she would never met Jamie if she was not with Frank.. and that is why she protected the the Randall legacy by begging Jamie not to fight Jack Randall.... it was out of selfishness, not love for Frank...
I blame Frank also....for taking her back... he should have moved on and let her to fend for herself and go to America by himself I am sure the preacher would have help her in some
capacity or she can go back to the 1740's again and let her cards fall where they may ...
Frank story was undeserving, and his line ended. And he gave the final moments of his life to woman who took
everything he had to give; but gave him nothing back.
This would at least give Frank some closure and stops him from wandering where she is at.

[@liol3409]

Imagine the scene of the red dress with Frank? No way. Do you realize that Claire could never talk to him about Faith? Frank knew about miscarriage because she talked about that in the hospital. Well, the problem with this marriage is not just Claire's feelings towards Jamie.

[@romy3964]

What scene do you talk about ??

[@debbiefayta6286]

And Frank was never faithful to Claire even before she went through the stones.

[@mokachyna22]

Agreed. They had no real intimacy.

[@slcRN1971]

@@mokachyna22 : it didn’t seem that there was any real passion between them.

[@bumblebity2902]

That miscarriage happen because she cared Frank too much although back then he haven't born yet.

[@greenpangie5108]

Anything else? You would like to discuss?

[@giuliapicchiotti]

I'm sorry for Frank, i truly , truly, am, but in this case, he was unfair to Claire, very unfair, he did not want to divorce because he still wanted to have some kind of power over her, and that's so fucking unfair, she did not ask any of the things that happend to her, just like he didn't, i get it that you brought up Brianna as your own, but that doesn't give you ANY FUCKING RIGHTS OVER CLAIRE !!!! . And about the fact that she got mad at him for Candy, she was obviously jealous that he could have someone he cared about, while she had to abandon the love of her life !! .

[@serendipit_y]

They could have signed a legal custody agreement. This wasn't necessary

[@Redsdelight]

She destroyed that poor man.

[@jeanellebeasley3320]

No one could blame this on claire.when frank seeing a man standing out side looking up at their window even when Claire wasn't cheating on him.frank gives her permission to cheat.what husband going to give their wife permission to sleep with other people.and if they was not married you don't give the person you love permission to sleep with other people.what kind of love is that.by frank giving claire permission didn't he know she could have fell in love with one of the man he gave her permission to have and affair with.

[@rikudoubapeck]

Claire was the one who suggested they see other people not him. She wouldn't let him touch her or her stomach while she was preganant. They couldn't have a meaningful romantic relationship because of all that happened in Scotland.

[@hlagtrvenncvrenst5121]

@@rikudoubapeck they're talking about BEFORE Claire travelled in time. Frank was cheating on her during the ww2.

[@mantra4ia]

But Frank didn't give Claire permission, he gave her forgiveness for any imagined thing that she had or would do, in the exact same way Jamie Fraser gave her forgiveness. If you don't fault one scenario, it's hardly fair to fault the other.

[@ahavens2463]

Looks like a lot of people on here have read the books. Does the book say anything about Frank looking EXACTLY like Black Jack Randall? Or is that something they did just for TV so viewers would guess the 2 were related?Just wondering what all was revealed in books. I know the TV has left out a lot of details like that for time's sake.

[@ellac9039]

He does look a lot like him, she was surprised when she saw BJR for the firdt time.

[@ahavens2463]

@@ellac9039 Yes. I remember her thinking he was Frank at first. I haven't read the books so I wasn't sure if that was just in show or was based off of books. I'm glad they kept Murtagh for as long as they did but I do wish they would stick to book. I've read they change things sometimes.

[@slcRN1971]

Yes, Black Jack Randall looked almost exactly like Frank in the books. I read the first book years ago, when it first came out and I just read it this month ....... now on the third book.

[@NdndNavarro]

Read the books y'all. You'll have waaaay different opinions of frank than the frank in the show.....

[@73005]

Tough scene!

[@TheFiown]

In any war there are no victors, both sides lose something.

[@TheGalatea2]

Poor Frank, he deserved someone better

[@leviniaheinisch6631]

No he doesn't. He was a sneaky, he never told Claire that he had been to a specialist because he couldn't produce babies, a trait carried through from Black Jack Randall. And then carrying on with one of his pupils. Sorry she is well off without him.

[@roocknrollqueen]

1. Black Jack wasn't his direct ancestor and we don't know if he couldn't have children.
2. What is bad about seeing a specialist? And Claire had her problems conceiving on her own. He wanted to make sure before blaming her.
3. He never gave up on her and kept looking even though everybody told him she left him. He took her back after 3 years, when pregnant with another man she cheated with. He decided not to leave a woman with a child and no support and took them in. He raised a bastard as his own and loved her.
4. Claire gave him permission to date. He fell in love with someone else after 20 (!!!) years living with someone who doesn't love him.
So yeah, HE deserved someone better!

[@lapenskierosemary4322]

Whaaat ?

[@mhyer9838]

Well I think it's more complicated than that. Technically, she did cheat on him. But at the same time, she had no idea she would eventually come back. She suffered for a long time and was torn apart because she still loved him, but was convinced she was never going to see him again. When she finally came back, she was pregnant, but who would have believed her whole time travelling story? He agreed to take her back because he was probably very much in love with her still, and decided to raise her child, which is something he needs to be given credit for. The problem, I think, is that he eventually lost all feelings for her (which is totally normal given the situation) but even when Claire wanted to get divorced to give him back his freedom, he refused, because he didn't trust her when it came to their kid. However, by the time it got to that point, he didn't really make any effort to compromise and actually make things less awkward than they were. Claire was not upset because he had been seeing someone else, she was upset because to everyone else, they were still married, and acting the way he did was disrespectful and brought shame to his wife and family. Bringing your mistress over, for everyone to see, having intercourse with her in their bed without his wife knowing, etc, all that was very disrespectful towards her. So even if he had permission and all that, by the end of the relationship, he had no respect at all and didn't try to keep things neutral. They both weren't good for each other ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@liol3409]

He is not a bad guy, but he is not good either. Frank never accompanied Claire in her educational and professional ambitions. In addition, his arrangement implied discretion and he is very obvious. On the other hand, he is also disrespectful to Sandy. He condemned her to be the mistress for years. If Claire did not respect Frank's feelings, Frank did not respect Sandy's either. Of course, in the book is much sexist, unfaithful and racist.

[@bgt2848]

I really love how they showed frank was an alpha and honorable in his own right. Claire was living with one foot in the door. Bri was the daughter of the man he knew his wife truly loved yet he remained in a situation that was unfair to him out of love for her and the love he still felt for Claire.
Diana Gabaldon could have made him into a cliché, a lesser man. Rather she chose to make him an alpha male, not like Jamie but in his own right. I love Claire and Jamie, I love Claire, but I’m able to say she was not being fair to him because they are so well-developed

[@dominiquebottega9386]

Ils sont arrivés à un point de non retour Claire ne peut oublier Jamie elle voit sa fille tous les jours c'est son portrait et l'amour de sa vie Franck ne peut lutter 🤔❤️💞

[@user-te3yj1bg6t]

И Клэр несчастна, и Фрэнк, и Джейми. Лучше бы всё же они развелись, как Клэр предлагала. Фрэнку, конечно, надо отдать должное, он искренне любил Брианну. Не каждый мужчина на это способен. Но лучше бы развёлся, и не мучились бы оба.
А Джейми в своём времени! Мало того, что остался без жены и дочери, ещё и 7 лет в пещере, потом тюрьма.
Потом эта Дженива, которую я возненавидела. Позволила же автор свершиться шантажу. Я думаю, многие были бы рады, если бы у девчонки ничего не вышло. А сына бы ему родила вернувшаяся лет на 10 раньше Клэр.
Но автор есть автор, это её право решать, как герои поступят.

[@laurasutton1551]

She should of just divorced him when she came back

[@autumninvirginia1229]

Take a moment. 1. If memory serves me Claire did not know if she could pass back and forth thru the stones. 2.During WW2 a number of couples married because of feelings that the circumstance of war did not permit good decisions. Clair cared for her husband but it is likely without Bree without Jamie they would have realized they were not best for each other. 3 Other than Jamie 200yrs in the past Claire was faithful for all the years of Bree's life. If time travel never happened I do not think she would have ever been unfaithful if they chose to stay together. Frank was complex, both he and Jamie were in a situation none of the including Claire could have foreseen. They all did the best they could and Frank was not an saint, he had affair maybe more. Clair came back and spent decades being faithful trying to do her best. It is a fantasy folks. Both men had qualities, all 3 were flawed and made mistakes. Of the three Jamie was the one who lost the most. Frank got to be a father and was able to love Bree. Claire spent decades in confusion knowing whatever she did people she cared deeply for would be hurt. Frank did his best, Claire would never have cut him off from Bree. Would Frank have cut Claie off if he could to punish her????. The cautionary tale is to make marriage decisions with care it is hard work but so excellant when done correctly. I hurt for them all life is a out balance. I do not see Claire as a narcissist but as a rational woman in a mind bending circumstance. Frank and Jamie were both worthy of love. The only way to avoid the quagmire would to have not touch the stones but logical post WW2 minds did not believe in time travel portals or paranormal realities. The church abandoned the supernatural trying to be modern.

[@mokachyna22]

And also, Frank is being really shitty to Sandy. He is using her. Why is that ok?

[@xaviervega468]

It isn't. But at the same time Sandy knew she was banging a married man.

[@angiem27]

Am I the only one who is on Frank's side? Claire pisses me off. The way she treats Frank. She agreed to raise Brianna with Frank and she treats him like shit. Frank tries so hard. I understand she doesn't love frank anymore and loves Jaime but she shouldn't have stayed with Frank to begin with after she came back. It's not all about you Claire!!!! And frank stays for Brianna because that's his daughter and the example he said about his friend never seeing his son.

[@Anon1370]

I take it to mean when he said the beds crowded enough is cause jamie ghost was in the middle of them all the time cause claire was having sexi dreams and masturbating to the point he could hear her. I do feel sorry for frank but well once you've had a jamie....can you really blame her to be honest. I do feel claire is abit of a manipulating woman when she wants to be hence the keeping frank all them years and maybe I can feel abit of feminism comming out too.