Wedding ring "stolen" by German soldier in 1944 returned to familly of Prime Minister Paul Reynaud
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- In 1944, a German soldier stationed in St Maxime, southern France, "found" a wedding ring in the requisitioned French house he was stationed in. He kept the ring, and passed it onto his daughter. This video explains how 75 years after the war, it was possible to locate the descendents of the original owner of the ring. Surprisingly, the owner turned out being Jeanne Henri-Robert, Righteous among the nations, and wife of French Prime Minister Paul Reynaud.
PS: I only found out after making the video that "Président du conseil" correctly translates into "Prime Minister".
For help with WWII research, I can be contacted at: jean-loup@gassend.com
A Crocodile Tears production.
World War II - Paul Reynaud - président du conseil - ministre de la guerre - 1940 - St Maxime - Wehrmacht - Operation Dragoon - genealogy research - holocaust - shoa - déportation - yad vashem - Gisèle Gonse-Boas - theft - war crimes -
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I love, love, love your channel. Facts, not fiction and so interesting 👌
About 12 years ago I was in a gun shop and they had on display the full uniform of a WWII German Officer, to include his paybook and other personal items. It appeared to me he had been captured, or killed, and they had every single item he was wearing at the moment on display. It was for sale, but the price was astronomical. It always bugged me seeing those items on display. It is one thing to have a helmet, or some other piece of anonymous equipment, but to have a man's nearly complete wartime life on display just didn't settle well with me. I always thought it would have been nice to have been able to buy it all up and send the personal effects back to the family, provided that they would have accepted them.
YES.
Chances are all those items were being sold by the family.
@@CrocodileTear Hadn't thought about that. But being that this was in the U.S. I just assumed it was all brought over as souvenirs.
These are called groupings and usually become available because of family that doesn't want it. Soldiers in the field do not collect the entire clothing and effects of a captured soldier - especially not a dead soldier - thinking hey what a neat momento for the collection.
@@captainsergeant It has been common for 20 or more years now for things to cross over the Atlantic to be sold.
Furthermore, the amount of dishonesty and forgery in the field of collecting is mind numbing. It is common for crooked dealers to take unrelated items and even fake items and then put them all together as if they had belonged to the same person.
Great video. German POWs were treated very well in the states. They had no lack of food. On the other hand my father was captured and was a POW in Germany, he told me the only meat they ever ate was horse and that was very rare. Always soup potatoes or turnips. He weighed at 90 pounds when liberated.
The Germans themselves didnt have much to eat. There is a photo taken in a POW camp showing the German guards searching through the POW's trash pile of red cross parcels in the hopes of finding something left over to eat.
@@CrocodileTear my father said they didn’t receive any Red Cross packages until towards the end of the war. The Russians in the camp along side were treated worse than dogs. My father a non smoker would give his cigarettes to the Russians.
You, sir, are a credit to history itself. Respect
You're a rare character tracking these people down and returning their sentimental property. I imagine the rewards is the happiness you bring these people. Well done.
Wow, what are the odds?? Fascinating little bit of history, and great job!!!
“You know he was a French politician so he had several girlfriends “ 😂 Epic !!
"anonymus German soldier called Johann Schubauer" :D
I find this fascinating! The woman obviously did not care for the ring, because she was divorced from Paul, but she kept it anyway. Maybe she still loved him, who knows. It is very sad. In this case, you had the needle and you found the right haystack! Great work.
As a collector, finding such weird souvenirs amongst veterans effects is pretty common. Its wartime, unsure they will make it to middle age, stationed far from home, seeing the dead of war....found momentos often take on a different meaning in such situations. Theres a story here that likely passed with him. Maybe he had the idea to eventually return it, but in those days before the internet, that took a lot of work. He never cashed it in or sold it. He hung onto it for some other reason.
After war and his experience, It was probably not only a souvenir of his time at war, but also a token that reminded him of a time that stayed with him the rest of his life. When you can't erase memories, I guess the souvenirs become almost sacred.
Tex- our neighbour- Mc niese, had a pile off germen photos beside his bed here in new zealand.- in italy every german he killed he ransacked their dead bodys and took the photos off them and had them beside his head where he slept until he died in 2005. - Ahh know where his house is but not sure iff the photos still there.- ???- most were paratroopers he killed at Castle hill- Italy.''
That's sick @@seanodwyer4322
It Would have been really great if you shared the picture of the daughter of the John Shubur, She was so cute in her childhood as we can see in the picture.....
That is correct, and something I didnt think about.
This is just wonderful, is not any ring, is THE ring. Unbelievable and marvelous.
Thanks a million
What a story
What a great channel
Great job
Respect
What a curious, improbable story. I am sure you felt both shock and pleasure at your success in returning the ring to the family! I suspect that the German soldier who took it kept it because he knew who Paul Reynaud was.
Perhaps, and I only say perhaps, the German soldier intended to try to return the ring to the lady who had lost it and that was why he never parted with it.
New CrocodileTear upload warrants an IMMEDIATE click !
Next level Jean-Loup!
I have no questions for you. Only compliments. Thank you.
More great research on your part. I am sure that the relatives were pleased to get this piece of family history back !
I love the French language. Sounds so beautiful as you said those names. Thank you for all the very time consuming research you do, and, sometimes not so time consuming. Happy holidays.
Interesting story. It is sometimes astonishing what can come out of following links and dates mentioned in bigger works. Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Its amazing what is still around and the stories they can tell.
He’s not anonymous then! Great contents, please keep it this way!
Anonymous can also mean: "having no outstanding, individual, or unusual features; unremarkable or impersonal."
That is what I meant. Just some random soldier.
But yes, I was chuckling myself when I heard I said that.
Keep up the good work...fascinating stuff , well done reuniting the ring with the family 👍
What an incredible story! One reason that the ring may have been inscribed with an alternate date is that according to French law after 1792, marriages had to be performed by civil authorities, usually at the town hall, before couples could be married in a church; usually the church marriage would take place on the same day as the 'civil marriage' but sometimes they could be several days apart. Similar situation in Italy, where church marriages were not recognized by law unless the couple also had a civil marriage. Not sure when this ended, but certainly after 1912. The information you found online would have been taken from the civil registers of the archive of the relevant department, meaning that most likely would have been the civil marriage, and the date of the subsequent church marriage was inscribed on the ring. Learned about this topic while researching my wife's French heritage as I noticed the discrepancies in dates between 'official' and family records regarding the date of marriage. Of course couples would place more emphasis on the religious ceremony rather than the civil one.
You are exactly right. I suspectd the same reason as you, and in the meantime the familly confirmed to me, after seeing the video, that the dates differed because the religious wedding and the civil wedding did not occure on the same day.
Well done Sir, fantastic work!
Always love these stories, thank you for sharing!
another great story. Well done again.
That's absolutely fantastic.
Thank you!
Brilliant! well done!
Love your work. Well done!
Well, it’s about time!
Well done. Always impressed how yu can go back so far and find this information in such detail.
In this case I believe I simply turned VERY lucky
That is a very interesting story. Thank you.
Many thanks for a most interesting presentation.
Outstanding work, always enjoyable to watch your investigations.
Oh man.. I was really hoping that the German soldier discovered the hidden jewish person and got the ring, so he doesn’t tell.. he sure took it and kept his mouth shut, but because he disliked the Nazi ideology himself. That’s why he didn’t sell it, because it was no payment for him but a reminder to be a gentle and caring person. Would match with his daughters wish to give it back.. because she has a good heart (as well).
Especially with the war in Ukraine, I really seem to have the need to believe in the goodness of humans, although it looks dark..
Why is it that German Soldiers "stolen" but allies confiscated but never "stolen" a damned thing?
Anybody taking a wedding ring is stealing.
I think the soldier held onto it because he knew it was associated with Paul Reynaud.
That is a possibility, but if so, his daughter did not know.
Incredible story beautifully told
Job well done, Sir.
GOOD WORK!
Excellent!
So, is it possible that Johann knew exactly who this ring belonged to since he made the effort to secure the ring in the pow camp and get it home? 🤔
Your videos are great and this one is no exception. I do take issue with implying the German soldier stole the ring even though you put it in quotation marks but you came right out and said it in the commentary. I contrast that with the American soldier who took personal photos off the dead body of a German soldier he killed and kept them for most of the rest of his life. You never used the word stolen in that entire video or put it in the title.
The woman was living in temporary quarters and was told on a moments notice to move. She must have hurriedly gathered her things and probably missed the ring and maybe other things. The German soldier came later and was probably quartered there with others and came across the ring. He may or may not have recognized the name but took it as a souvenir as likely 99% of people would have done.
On the other hand you have an officer, an educated man, an intelligence officer in fact, deliberately take personal property from the man he killed and then instead of turning it over to authorities or just leaving it there for those disposing of the bodies to possibly return to his family he takes them for himself and then makes no effort for the rest of his life to even try and return them. However difficult it might have been he didn’t even try.
My point is not to condemn either man but my bone of contention is the way you characterized the one as stealing and the other as somehow noble for returning the photos but only after a third party intervened. I think you should change the title of this video and remove the word stolen and if the audio cannot be edited then add a statement to the description apologizing for the improper characterization.
I see where you are coming from, but dont really agree.
In one case it is an intelligence officer who took some worthless photos (the wedding photos would have existed in numerous copies) from an enemy he had personaly killed and who had tried to kill him and his men. Technically you can say it is stealing, but for me he is just taking a trophy of no importance to remember a killed enemy. I know Hensleigh also took this soldier's diary and handed it over to his chain of command, who got it translated. It is possible these photos were in the diary. The bodies were abandonned on site and it is possible the photos would have been destroyed had he not taken them.
In the other case it is a soldier taking somebody's gold wedding ring from that person's very own house that was requisionned. Much closer to actual stealing.
@@CrocodileTear It’s just as possible someone else would have taken ring as it is the photos would have been destroyed. It’s an unwarranted assumption that there were many other copies of the photos. It seems to me your assigning subjective values to the photos and ring and are basing your judgements of the men accordingly.
The act committed by both was the same. Having been a soldier myself I condemn neither for it but both could have left the property that was not their’s alone; both chose not to do so for their own reasons. To try and divine whether one was right and the other wrong is completely subjective. You’re entitled to your opinion of course but your categorizing one as right and the other wrong is not based on any objective standard.
They took property that didn’t belong to them regardless of the circumstances. Objectively either both were right or both were wrong.
In any case, none of that detracts from your excellent videos.
@@Parkview112 The US soldier kept some monetarily worthless photos off the body of a man he had personally just killed. I dont know what his exact motivations were, but it is quite clear he wanted to remember that person by keeing something from him, and I have total respect for that. I dont view it as stealing, and that is just my opinion.
The German soldier found an expensive gold wedding ring in a house he was occupying, and also took it for unknown reasons. The fact he never sold or melted the ring also seems to show he didnt just take it for monetary reasons, however what he did is much closer to blatant stealing, which is why I used that word.
This is all just my ooinion obviously and I am not judging either men as I think it is quite clear in the videos.
Love your command of French; I have French background inter alia.
Merci beaucoup pour un autre vidéo magnifique!
I got similar letters from the IRS, What an amazing story
what did the IRS letter say?
@@CrocodileTear Just reminiscing from my youth when I had issues with them threatening to take everything I own very similar words were used 🇺🇸
@@Cola64 OK, the letter from the Germans saying you have to leave your house in the next days, I see.
Great story! Amazing.
Wow, thanks for sharing.
Nice video JL
Stationed at St. Maxime, must have been liked being stationed at Palm Beach Fl. during WWII.
Except that there were serious air raids that cause numerous deaths. I found the German division in Nice was losing about as many men per day before the Allied invasion occured, as all the Us troops deployed to US and Afghanistan during the more deadly period of those wars.
Wonderful!
I wonder why the date on the ring was wrong? In fact I suspect the ring date was correct but the date in the online record was wrong, maybe transcribed wrong etc. I have seen many issues myself when researching.
Everyhting is in fact correct: The date on the ring is that of the religious ceremony and that in the online documents the date of the official union at the town hall.
@@CrocodileTear Got it. Thanks for correction. Love your stuff by the way. Great job.
La qualité de votre travail est simplement époustouflante.
Et vous m'énervez à parler anglais, allemand et russe 😉
Il faut voir la vidéo en version Francaise alors 😉
@@CrocodileTear j'ai été modérateur sur un site US, Armchair General, mais jamais je n'ai pu me targuer d'avoir votre maîtrise de l'anglais, comme votre dévotion concernant les MIA.
Sincère respect. J'ai d'ailleurs fréquemment partagé votre travail sur le facebook de ce forum.
@@MrSebfrench76 Pour l'anglais je suis un tricheur, je suis canadien.
Merci d'aider a faire partager mes vidéos.
Seria bueno traducirlo en español , Saludos
Very interesting video. Thank you. But is the German soldier truly anonymous if we know his name?
Anonymous has two definitions, the second one being : having no outstanding, individual, or unusual features; unremarkable or impersonal.
That is what I mean, but people have been very amused by that comment :)
@@CrocodileTear Thank you for your clarification and hard work. I learned something new today.
Great job
He kept the ring I'd say.
You're amazing.
Nice start etc. But if the ring says that they were married on the 14th. The research you showed was for a marriage for the 12th. How can this be the same person??
Its religious ceremony date versus official town hall wedding date.
I enjoy your videos thanks
I love your work but I had to laugh because I’m pretty sure you said you wanted to talk about an anonymous soldier and then you gave his name😂
Indeed 😄
But I meant anonymous in this sense: "having no outstanding, individual, or unusual features; unremarkable or impersonal."
0:49 "later he was a prisoner of the Americans and he managed to keep the ring" - *very* unlikely
How do you explain he still had the ring after being a POW then?
@@CrocodileTear Very unlikely isn't the same as impossible.
@@maximkretsch7134 So a completely pointless comment then considering the evidence.
"Unlikely he isn't guilty"
"But the evidence proves he's innocent"
"I didn't say he was Guilty"
Mouth breather.
❤
It was the right thing to do with a personal item such as a wedding ring, but I do have mixed feelings with items such as WW2 samurai swords that were captured in the pacific.
On the one hand, many of these swords are hundreds of years old and were japanese family heirlooms passed down through the generations but on the other these same swords were used to commit unspeakable atrocities against not only US/Allied troops but civilians as well and were legitimately taken as war trophies.
Personal items such as rings, diaries, photos etc should probably be returned if possible.
Mixed feelings to be sure.
Edit to add.
If my father or grandfather had captured a japanese sword (or any weapon) then it becomes part of my family history as well.
Samurai swords are a weapon. When you lose a battle and surrender, you dont keep your weapons.
A wedding ring from a civilian woman is a whole other story.
@@CrocodileTear Very true.
Keep up the good work!
Not on the topic but will you be doing anymore site reclamation?
The current war in Ukraine has been making things difficult.
@@CrocodileTear yes that would be. Unless you were working closer to the Carpathians. Anything further east would be extremely dangerous
"righteous among the nations" ??
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righteous_Among_the_Nations
perhaps if he spent more energy on preparing France for war and less on his mistresses things could have turned out differently? just sayin'
Maybe his mistress gave him extra energy and testosterone 😄
Germans and Gold….who would have thought it 😂
Glad it is back with the rightful “owners” 👍🏻
👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌
Anonymous so then tells us who it is. And he calls others.
anonymous, adjective
1. (of a person) not identified by name; of unknown name.
"the donor's wish to remain anonymous"
2. having no outstanding, individual, or unusual features; unremarkable or impersonal.
"his impeccable, slightly anonymous Chelsea flat"
@@CrocodileTear well thank, you appear not what it means you appear not to. Don’t try to teach people you look like a goon when yo do that.
@@TC-qd1zw You appear like a goon as well when you write incomplete and incomprehensible sentences. Perhaps we can start a goon club?
@@CrocodileTear do us a favour expire.
Spoils of war are not stolen
what are they then? borrowed?
@@CrocodileTear spoils. Of. War.
@@CrocodileTear I think “stolen” or “looted” is the correct word here. Spoils would be a pistol, a flag , a sword, a or watch from a dead soldier. Theft from civilians is stealing even in war imho. That’s why .I assume the daughter wanted to the return the ring because of a guilty conscience of how it wa acquired. Positive story thank you for sharing.
@@bigreddog502 Stolen. Private. Property. Gold. Wedding. Ring.
@@yieldtothenight Even theft of personal items from prisonners of war is very clearly forbidden by the Geneva Convention, and rightly so.
First
Right on!
Respekt