@@randomidiot8142 I think what'll give this a chance is specifically the combination of the high case capacity, potential for a standard 30 round magazine capacity, and the 5.56 bolt. Any one of those things wouldn't be enough to be compelling, but all of them combined could be the magical combo.
I was hoping for another wildcat round that I never knew I needed. And to think I've been waisting all these years handloading to get my desired effects with 270 (6.8).
I was thinking along the same lines :) 'cept I was thinking bout my 50 odd years shooting 6mm Remington:) Finally quit looking for something better...... hehhehe.
@@seeratlasdtyria4584 Yeah, there's not a "magic bullet". A 270 or 260 will do anything this new round will. If more power is needed 30 cal has always worked. Its just something new they wanna sell the younger guys that don't share our experience. We know this.
Except that .270 is virtually 7mm, not 6.8. And no one is building an AR with a standard length action. In a bolt action rifle, 270 Winchester is a fine cartridge that has been getting the job done for nearly a century.
It kills me to see people complaining about companies being innovative and releasing new cartridges. In today’s industry company have to be innovative. The more cartridges and options the better. Leaves options we as shooters didn’t have 10 years ago
Reintroducing variations of failed cartridges is not innovation. They could have just picked up 6 x 45 or 6-223 and instead they are bringing out yet another wildcat that has the same flaws as its predecessors. The reason the six arc is sticking around is because the case is shorter. You can't shoot vlds out of a 556 case in an AR magazine.
I agree, but it goes both ways, I've heard the same thing about 6.5 Grendel, 224 VLK, 6 ARC. The same people that hyped all these cartridges crapped on them 2 years later when the new one came out. I think waiting 5 years and let the market tell us what's effective.
The more options, the higher the average cost per round goes. If nothing is mass manufactured then everything is an expensive wildcat. I like the idea of the 6 max but only if the competition dies completely.
More choices are always good. I like the variety of ammo you're planning to release. That has been an issue with the ARC, 3 loadings, all basically the same "long range" crap. I haven't seen any bolt issues with Grendels or ARCs personally, but I can attest to them being very temperamental about the gas system and feed ramps. Good luck with the new cartridge. I'd love to see a head to head between this, the ARC, and some other 6mms all in 18" or 20" ARs. Let's get real about the rounds and get away from the 24" "test barrels"
@@thefrogking481umm, almost every other person including the US government have been trying to find a better round for the M4/AR platform for a couple decades now. The 5.56 is a good round but it falls short in a lot of ways.
Reviewing these comments, It appears we have A LOT of Certifiable ballasticians here... Hornady better fire their staff who stole the 6ARC and start interviewing these folk in the comments. Performance looks great!!, availability in components, reloading dies, gunsmiths who know how to build an AR barrel and ammo demand will weigh factor. Ive personally used Starline straight wall 350 legend brass to form a 6x45, alot of work was needed to convert that brass
Having handled and researched this cartridge. The military use implications of this cartridge are insane! The round is virtually the same size and wieght as a 556. Carry the same amount of ammo as a 556 load out, with 1000yard plus capability. In a mk12 style setup. Then flip it and run 105grains out of a mk18 style setup still pushing 2700fps. These guys are on to somthing. And I can't wait to see more
Oh heck yeah!!! I'm glad i held off on going 6 arc! I'm all for this, especially with sons on board for making the rifles! I want one as soon as theyre available!
Love this type of stuff. Great video and best of luck to these guys with getting it out to market. I hope they are successful! Thanks for all the fun insider info!
I think even still, the lead is a bit buried here. This cartridge is looking to the future of the AR platform. Maybe not the future of weapon systems in general, but the AR itself the way we know it it as Stoner rifle. 6mm MAX has the potential to enhance the lethality of this system exponentially and the real magic comes in how it performs on shorter barrels. Its a solution for the dreaded "its only good to a 100yd's" problem the MK18 presents. If you can have a system that's shorter and lighter but maintains lethality, naturally you'd want that. The bullet choice available with this cartridge is going to make it a heavy hitter in all barrel lengths. But all while not compromising reliability and with less other compromises in general.
Oh my stars. This has my attention. We are going to be watching this round for a while. If it pans out, we are going to seriously get a 16"-18" upper. Many thanks.
I am sceptical, same as for 6mm-223. Light bullet = poor BC, bad long range stability in crosswind. Should have started with 105gr and up, even if at loss of powder capacity
Until something truly gives a game changing advantage none of these cartridges will truly succeed. And if the ammo costs $1.50 per round just buy a 308 and get double the performance.
Most of these rounds are driven by the military asking for better performance out of existing guns. M4s are much lighter than M110s, so it’s natural for them to push development for that rifle. For bolt gun people it makes no sense to constrict yourself to what fits in M4 or SR25 mags. But as long as those are the constrictions for gas guns, companies are going to keep making new rounds chasing every bit of performance they can.
Nobody cares what this cartridge can do with hunting weight bullets. If this new cartridge can't push 105gr match bullets at a competitive velocity when loaded to magazine length............ you wasted your time and money. The hunting community doesn't buy ammo in quantities that can sustain a cartridge.
I think the 6arc would really be popular if the ammo variety was better and priced reasonable. Some cheap plinking stuff and some varmint rounds would probably help. It’s all expensive now but 223-5.56 is a lot cheaper and it is everywhere. Most people won’t spend 30$ a box for a volume shooting cartridge. IMHO. Hopefully this round gets plenty of support and lots of cheap options even steel cased stuff like 7.62 x39 or some hornady stuff. Anything that is 30$ or above someone will just go with something else. 350 legend started cheap but now is higher than the 30-06 or 308 at my local wal mart. Good luck 👍 I like options and hopefully it goes well.
I had wondered about the functionality of a larger diameter case head and you guys answered my questions for the AR-15 platform. Did I miss you mentioning magazine compatibility or is that already assumed because of the 350 Legend parent case? A lot of naysayers here aren’t talking about why many new cartridges fail and some become a 270 Winchester. The first necessary condition is a well defined use case/purpose. The second necessary condition is to actually have something “new and improved.” Many recent cartridges are “better” simply because they’re designed for new bullet designs, longer bullets with higher BC, and faster available twist rates. Third is some serious marketing and manufacturing support by significant market players. That means both firearms and ammo production and availability, plus reloading dies, brass and published reloading data. Then there’s old fashioned timing and luck. Often times trends in competitive shooting sports drive that last part, and changes can be unpredictable.
I went with the 6mmAR which necks down the 6.5 Grendel case. No malfunctions in the AR platform, only draw back is it never caught on since it was an exclusive design. More accurate then most of my bolt rifles.
@@andrewstoll4548 they got angry that their political friends were getting downvoted into oblivion. So they disabled displaying the downvote count. F them!
This cartridge is definitively a winner to some capacity, what is important is that we contextualize use case. Irrespective of nswdg having adopted the 6mm arc. Some of you may be wondering what the value proposition of this wildcat cartridge is, what will allow this to take off, and whether or not this wildcat will fizzle out like other wildcat rounds in the past (224 Valkyrie, 6.8 spc). Fundamentally speaking this round has been able to solve the most pertinent problem plaguing both the 6mm ARC and the 6.5 grendel, which is the extractor failures in gas guns. The purpose of this cartridge IS NOT to deliver superior ballistics over 6ARC but rather, it is to deliver nearly identical ballistic performance while having much greater RELIABILITY in the AR platform. 6MM ARC is a great round... in a bolt gun, the same can be said for 6.5 Grendel. However, both of those rounds have noteworthy reliability issues in gas guns, so much so that I would advise against running either of those two rounds in a gas gun. It's also important to note that whenever you are running a 6mm arc in a gas gun that you need to be very careful with the types of loads you are shooting. This new 6mm max however, has finally come to market for those looking to achieve maximum performance in small frame AR's safely and reliably. Is ammo availability going to be an issue for the 6mm max? For the next two to three years yes, but the question remains are you willing to sacrifice ammo availability for superior reliability, standard ar parts compatibility, and functionality. For many of the consumers in this specific market segment; the answer is yes, as anyone interested in pushing a small frame gas gun toward exhibiting performance reminiscent of a .308 more than likely has some experience with reloading, has already squared away a very solid general purpose rifle, and more than likely has 1000 rounds of their preferred general purpose ammo on hand. Does this new 6mm max cartridge make the 6mm arc and 6.5 grendel obsolete? No, not by a long shot it's simply matter of delineating appropriate use case for each of these rounds. I believe if this 6mm max cartridge is marketed properly, the 6mm arc and 6.5 grendel will be more heavily favoured in bolt guns AS THEY SHOULD BE. With the 6.5 grendel being a slightly superior option for hunting due to its' heavier larger projectiles, and the 6mm arc being the superior choice for competition shooting with a flatter trajectory and wider range of available 6mm projectiles for hand-loaders. The 6mm Max presents itself as a much better candidate for tactical applications with that improved reliability and standard ar parts compatibility. I will most definitely be building out an upper in 6mm max upper for my safe. All that being said however, initial adoption will come down to effective marketing, if that is executed properly we have a winner here boys.
Glad he was honest about the SDs using ball powder. I'm sick of marketing bullcrap. I've never had a large interest in the ARC because of the bolt problem and it's operation envelope so something like this is more appealing to me. I'm also a big supporter of SOLGW However... how is this a significant improvement over the tried-and-abandoned 6x45mm?
New cartridges are always welcome. Please teach us about the difference to the 6x45 (from the 60s) and the 6mm-223 where reloading dies are available since many years. Don't want to diminish the invention of this guy but just try to learn what really about his invention is.
those 2 cartridges were both based on 5.56 and simply necking up case. they both held approximately 28 grns of water cap. the 6mm MAX is based off the .350 legend parent and holds 35 grains water cap and has been shortened to hold up a 103 gr bullet with enough powder to push it and still be mag fed at 2.300 with 6mm MAX mags or .350 legend mags. hope that helps in a simple comparison. 103ELDX 2750fps
The 350 legend case has slightly higher case capacity over 223 basic (223 basic is a 223 case that's is staght wall and is intended to be neck down). 350 legend has a rebated rim. the case body is large then the rim of the cartridge. So you could neck 223 up to 6mm (6x45) but it will never have the same capacity as a cartridge based around the 350 legend case.
I don't know . Once you neck the legend down its not going to be anywhere near 35gr of capacity...then if you go over 80-90 gr bullets you further diminish case capacity.
Glad to see SOLGW is in on this one. My buddy and I are huge fans of the 6ARC and our gears are always turning and thinking of new better calibers. We had always wondered if a 6mm bullet could be used in a 5.56 case. Will be putting a new upper together for the 6 max.
They are headed in the right direction. What I am looking for is an AR 15 platform 6mm that can push a 108gr bullet at 3000fps out of a 16" barrel. I know it dose not exist yet but that is what I would like.
I had no idea 350 legend was rebated. Seeing the numbers and this excitement makes more sense to me now. I just compared water capacity on the different cases: .223 Rem - 28.8 6x45 - 26.9 6mm ARC - 34.0 .350 Legend - 36.5 6mm Max -35.0 I think this is something worth checking out.
Can you talk about why this new caliber/round why is it better than a 223/556 with a heavy/longer bullet with a faster twist barrel. ?? love to hear your opinion.
I think I can answer this. The 6x45 is a severe compromise. That 87 grain bullet out of a 6x45, according to my numbers, has a max muzzle velocity of around 2800 FPS. The 6mm Max pushes an 87 grain projectile to around 3000 FPS. In my humble opinion, these numbers alone are a good enough reason to give this cartage some attention. It does not have the high BC bullets of the 6mm ARC but it is a much safer cartage. I hope it takes off.
great question. The 77gr bullet is the end for mag fed 5.56 AR rounds. we pick up there and add 400 fps velocity over the MK262 round with same bullet weight. this is a force multiplier with the same round count and load out as 5.56. this round makes the 5.56 obsolete. we do this without mods to the BCG and retain full integrity of components. this cartridge can replace then GI carry as well as perform a DMR role based on configuration. loads range from 55gr to 103gr, this covers just about any shooting/hunting/mil application.
This is the absolute best answer I have heard yet and of course it comes from the man who invented the cartridge! If you go on any of the forums, everyone has tried their best to duplicate the Mk262 Black Hills load. They have gotten close but the 6mm max far surpasses the capabilities of the MK262 by leaps and bounds. Furthermore, being able to have the same capacity of the magazines and platform makes it a win win for everyone. I can tell you, it was easier to hit the 1k targets repeatedly with the 6mm Max far better than I have done with the Mk262 round. Congrats Bryan, I really do think this might be a game changer. 👍🏼
Curious how this will perform in smaller packages compared to the ARC. ARCS main issue is the market support. Mainly due to it coming out right before the pandemic. Then yes the bolt stuff.
Very neat. Using the 350 legend case is genius. I see this working best with longer dmr rifles "20+ And I think 6mm ARC will still remain popular especially with barrels 18" and shorter.
we currently have saami load data published for 55-100gr loads. We are currently shooting the 103gr ELD-X and will release saami load data in the coming weeks. we are a balance between the hagar and the arc and yes we shoot 103 ELDX at 2.300 which is our standard certified mag length for this cartridge. @@LRRPFco52
The only weakness of the 6mm MAX I can think of is that it does not have the ability to use heavy weight, high BC bullets (I think 87gr is the limit. which is around 0.400 BC). In my opinion that is not a bad thing because I think 90 ish grains in an intermediate cartage platform is a good weight for 6mm projectiles.
IMO ammo has to be sold for under $1 a round, otherwise it will be too expensive to shoot (for the general public) in an AR platform. Look at 8.6 blk - its is an amazing round but nobody wants to pay $3/per round EDIT: I just heard the prices....not bad.
6x45 has been around from the 70s and is a sized up 223/5.56 to 6mm mad dog weapon systems has 6 mm mongoose same thing sized up brass my 6x45 been a killer rifle for years they just making something that is been around for years
LOL!, So its a 350 legend case, that is basically a open .223 case, necked to a 6mm and calling it a new cartridge? Hmm, seems I’ve heard of that somewhere, Oh yea! The 6x45 or 6mm-223 Rem, or 6mm/223, take your pick.. Been around for years. A .223 necked up to 6mm. Hell, I have one and it shoots awesome! Had Hart spin me a barrel for a AR15 set up. Similar velocities to what is mentioned here. Probably because its the same round…”invented something new”…LOL!!
I messed up buying an AR Stoner 224 Valkyrie barrel that turn out to be a dud for all the hype! These 224 cartridges are an unpredictable for a reloader and causes blown cartridges for reasons I have no idea why when I check each powered charger going into the cartridge for loading. I also learned the 224 can't take any more of a powder charge than a 223 and that isn't what I bought the barrel for. My 224 barrel is crap for accuracy, and many have learned of the 224
@@andrewslagle1974 I've been sticking with my 6.5 Grendel. I had thought about piecing together an 18" 6mm ARC upper and/or rifle with a rifle length gas tube off of a 20" 6.5 Grendel barrel. Some friends have had issues with Odin Works and Faxon 6 ARC barrels using 6.5 Grendel Type II bolts. It's been a wait and see for me.
Perhaps the reason they haven't been made as well known is because they are largely theoretical. Besides online presumptions and a few anecdotal forum posts, is there any meaningful evidence that suggests that quality 6 ARC/6.5 Grendel bolts (Type 2) are prematurely failing regularly? And what does it mean for a bolt to fail prematurely? For example, and hypothetically speaking, if a 5.56 bolt lasts, on average, 9000 rounds without failure, is it unacceptable if a 6 ARC bolt fails at an average of 8,500 rounds? Is a loss of 500 rounds of life too much for what you gain in performance from the larger calibers? After all, we often give up barrel life in exchange for the benefits of some more aggressive cartridges and no one seems to complain too much. A huge factor in anecdotal accounts is excessively high-pressure reloads (i.e., exceeding 52,000 PSI) vs. standard and factory loads. Still another is how often you shoot. But in the end, there is no one-cartridge-does-it-all-perfectly solution. Advantages always come with disadvantages, and all of these must be weighed before making a commitment. I wouldn't necessarily use a 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel for home defense, but for target shooting and hunting, I have no problem with them. And a disclaimer: the empirical data I ask about may, in fact, be available, but I haven't seen it. Hornady ("Handbook of Cartridge Reloading," 11th Edition) does caution against high-pressure loads in 6 ARC gas guns because of bolt longevity concerns, so there's that. As an owner of 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel firearms, I'd love to have a look at the real data.
Red right hand llc, red right hand llc, red right hand llc.........reece lmg in 6 max with m 89 rail , rrh llc heat mitigation system washers for cooling faster 😂 dude talk about a thumper
Wow...right as I start seeing how popular the 6 arc is, we already have another cartridge that's competing with it...the 6 arc would probably be better in a ak.
Swapping out the barrels on the existing inventory of M4/16s for 6max make more sense then buying the sig mcx spear and the 6.8x51. I'd take a m16a4 in 6 max over the sig spear and the limited ammo capacity it has.
Seems okay! but how does it shoot with a 16" and under barrel? The general consciences in gas guns, is a better cartridges in a shorter package! nobody wants to lug around a 20" AR-15 platform. If you can't get those results in a shorter package then it will go the way of the dinosaur and be extinct before it starts say like the 6.8spc .300Hamr 224Val. and several other magnum cartridge wannabes that will do nothing but be an expensive waist of time
This is what the Military should adopt to replace 5.56. This has literally every advantage over 5.56, and is an even better choice than 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel, when you consider that it uses the same Bolt-Face and BCG, so it only requires a simple barrel swap to work!
So sorry for these guys but this won’t do at all…especially for PRS work. Any 6mm ARC in a gas gun as for over/under gas is bunk…A superlative arms gas block easily solves those issues. 6 ARC bolts are extremely reliable and rairly fail…a solution in search of a problem….
Don’t see this doing much more than the 6x223. Yeah looks like you can push bullets a little faster but you are still suck with 350 specific magazines it appears. Big pass for me unless it’s reliable In regular magazines.
I'm looking forward to 16" barrels. The magazine options for .350 Legend aren't great per se, but if this kicks off properly, I'm sure 25 or 30 round options will come to market.
I'd love to see head- to- head against 25-45 sharps and 6mm mongoose. The extra case capacity of the parent case could allow lower pressure powders or avoid compressed loads. That may give it an edge against the other cartridges. But it's only supposition until it's done.
Pretty amazing, but the appeal to me of 6arc was a shorter barrel and still hitting distance. I wonder if 6max suffers from shorter barrel lengths? Like what is the velocity reduction dropping to half that length?
6x45 holds 28 grns water cap. 6max holds 35 grns water cap. We push a 103eldx at 2700fps from 20” barrel with great precision. 6x45 will not shoot a 103/105 gr bullet.
@BrianCook-vw3fv after you neck the 350 legend down it doesn't hold 35gr anymore . Then you stick a 1.26in bullet in there and there is even less usable case volume .
Makes You Think...... is this why reloaders cannot get brass, bc the factory brass is going to other ammo makers for their ammo. Such as stated here 350 Legend brass going to these guys to make 6max ammo. so same with other such 308 brass going to ammo makers and brass makers of all the other Niche wild cat rounds!!!
Usually when we hear about a new AR cartridge it turns out to be a hot mess. (I'm lookin at your 22 nosler and 224 Valkyrie) This one seems to have the legs to get it done. It has the speed we were promised with the 22 nosler. It can launch better BC bullets than the 224 Valkyrie. I just hope this one doesn't fall flat like the other two. I REALLY WANT THIS ONE TO DO VERY WELL!!! I have two receiver sets in my safe waiting for a build worth doing.
Why did it take this long for this cartage to come out? This looks like the ideal AR15 cartage. This is what I had imagined an ideal 6mm AR15 cartage to be. Only needing a barrel swap to operate and over 1600 ft-lb of energy at the muzzle. If the performance, and reliability could come out of a polymer case (the reason is weight savings) then I think this will be The perfect AR15 cartage.
@@BrianCook-vw3fv My ideal AR15 cartage was a 6mm projectile with at least 1600 ft-lb of muzzle energy (Specifically 87gr @ 2900 FPS). This bested my ideal AR15 cartage by 100 FPS.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
The fact it uses a regular 5.56 bcg gives it a chance to stick.
About as much of a chance to stick as the 6 x 45 and the 6-223 that already exists.
Didn't help the nosler
@@troydspain1099my thoughts too. I got rid of it due to that.
@@realdeathpony went to haggar brass and 6.8 bolt
@@randomidiot8142 I think what'll give this a chance is specifically the combination of the high case capacity, potential for a standard 30 round magazine capacity, and the 5.56 bolt. Any one of those things wouldn't be enough to be compelling, but all of them combined could be the magical combo.
Can't wait to get my hands on this! Thanks Brian!
This is cool near 243 win performance from a standard AR... But it will be a barrel burner
I was hoping for another wildcat round that I never knew I needed. And to think I've been waisting all these years handloading to get my desired effects with 270 (6.8).
I was thinking along the same lines :) 'cept I was thinking bout my 50 odd years shooting 6mm Remington:) Finally quit looking for something better...... hehhehe.
@@seeratlasdtyria4584
Yeah, there's not a "magic bullet".
A 270 or 260 will do anything this new round will. If more power is needed 30 cal has always worked.
Its just something new they wanna sell the younger guys that don't share our experience.
We know this.
Except that .270 is virtually 7mm, not 6.8. And no one is building an AR with a standard length action.
In a bolt action rifle, 270 Winchester is a fine cartridge that has been getting the job done for nearly a century.
Maybe I missed it, but what was the max saami pressure? How many grains of H4350 can it hold pushing a 105 Berger?
It kills me to see people complaining about companies being innovative and releasing new cartridges. In today’s industry company have to be innovative. The more cartridges and options the better. Leaves options we as shooters didn’t have 10 years ago
There is always going to be the naysayers. That's ok. The Cartridge will speak for itself.
Reintroducing variations of failed cartridges is not innovation. They could have just picked up 6 x 45 or 6-223 and instead they are bringing out yet another wildcat that has the same flaws as its predecessors. The reason the six arc is sticking around is because the case is shorter. You can't shoot vlds out of a 556 case in an AR magazine.
I agree, but it goes both ways, I've heard the same thing about 6.5 Grendel, 224 VLK, 6 ARC. The same people that hyped all these cartridges crapped on them 2 years later when the new one came out. I think waiting 5 years and let the market tell us what's effective.
The more options, the higher the average cost per round goes. If nothing is mass manufactured then everything is an expensive wildcat. I like the idea of the 6 max but only if the competition dies completely.
Not just complaining but they seem mad about it lol
More choices are always good. I like the variety of ammo you're planning to release. That has been an issue with the ARC, 3 loadings, all basically the same "long range" crap. I haven't seen any bolt issues with Grendels or ARCs personally, but I can attest to them being very temperamental about the gas system and feed ramps. Good luck with the new cartridge. I'd love to see a head to head between this, the ARC, and some other 6mms all in 18" or 20" ARs. Let's get real about the rounds and get away from the 24" "test barrels"
It’s amazing how rife rounds are constantly changing , barrel life would be my only concern Thanks Ray
They're answering questions nobody asked.
@@thefrogking481people have absolutely been trying to squeeze more velocity out of 5.56 rounds for a while now
@@thefrogking481umm, almost every other person including the US government have been trying to find a better round for the M4/AR platform for a couple decades now.
The 5.56 is a good round but it falls short in a lot of ways.
Velocity kills barrels & not alot of 24" arms. The Velocity Their giving is from 24" barrels
Reviewing these comments, It appears we have A LOT of Certifiable ballasticians here... Hornady better fire their staff who stole the 6ARC and start interviewing these folk in the comments.
Performance looks great!!, availability in components, reloading dies, gunsmiths who know how to build an AR barrel and ammo demand will weigh factor.
Ive personally used Starline straight wall 350 legend brass to form a 6x45, alot of work was needed to convert that brass
Horandy takes other peoples hard work, changes the design the slightest then profits off of it?!?!?!?!
I'd like to see a direct comparison with the 6.5 Grendel. B/C drop and drift with the same basic wind conditions and velocity at 1000 or 1200 yd
Having handled and researched this cartridge. The military use implications of this cartridge are insane! The round is virtually the same size and wieght as a 556. Carry the same amount of ammo as a 556 load out, with 1000yard plus capability. In a mk12 style setup. Then flip it and run 105grains out of a mk18 style setup still pushing 2700fps. These guys are on to somthing. And I can't wait to see more
Oh heck yeah!!! I'm glad i held off on going 6 arc! I'm all for this, especially with sons on board for making the rifles! I want one as soon as theyre available!
Same! Was sooo close to just goin with it! Glad i waited.
SOLGW is the thing preventing me from doing it. Dude beat up his own mom
@user-lv23 You can just buy a barrel from BC Precision directly
Love this type of stuff. Great video and best of luck to these guys with getting it out to market. I hope they are successful! Thanks for all the fun insider info!
I think even still, the lead is a bit buried here. This cartridge is looking to the future of the AR platform. Maybe not the future of weapon systems in general, but the AR itself the way we know it it as Stoner rifle. 6mm MAX has the potential to enhance the lethality of this system exponentially and the real magic comes in how it performs on shorter barrels. Its a solution for the dreaded "its only good to a 100yd's" problem the MK18 presents. If you can have a system that's shorter and lighter but maintains lethality, naturally you'd want that. The bullet choice available with this cartridge is going to make it a heavy hitter in all barrel lengths. But all while not compromising reliability and with less other compromises in general.
6mm-223
6mm-223 has 28gr water cap. 6mm MAX has 35gr water cap.
@@BrianCook-vw3fv wrong
What about a 224 Max with case length appropriate for high BC or heavy for caliber projectiles?
Sounds sweet! I'll hold off until the 22 Max is out there. :) Great idea with the 350 Legend case though. :)
Oh my stars. This has my attention. We are going to be watching this round for a while. If it pans out, we are going to seriously get a 16"-18" upper. Many thanks.
Well shit just when I think I’m done!🤦♂️
🇺🇸
You gotta get one in man.
What a great time to be a gun nut! Thanks for bringing us along!
6mm WOA vs 6mm MAX?
Why didn't they bring out any 100-107 gr projectiles? Can that cartridge even handle higher BC bullets?
we chose the 90 for hog testing. we load up to 103gr
They'd be down in the case using up what little case capacity it has
I am sceptical, same as for 6mm-223. Light bullet = poor BC, bad long range stability in crosswind. Should have started with 105gr and up, even if at loss of powder capacity
Dislike at claiming sd is an inherent characteristic of the cartridge
Until something truly gives a game changing advantage none of these cartridges will truly succeed. And if the ammo costs $1.50 per round just buy a 308 and get double the performance.
Agreed. Just shoot 110 grain bullets in your .308.
Swap your sfar bbl for .243 haha
Most of these rounds are driven by the military asking for better performance out of existing guns. M4s are much lighter than M110s, so it’s natural for them to push development for that rifle. For bolt gun people it makes no sense to constrict yourself to what fits in M4 or SR25 mags. But as long as those are the constrictions for gas guns, companies are going to keep making new rounds chasing every bit of performance they can.
Great review as usual X-Ring 👍. This new 6mm Max looks like a winner.
Nobody cares what this cartridge can do with hunting weight bullets. If this new cartridge can't push 105gr match bullets at a competitive velocity when loaded to magazine length............ you wasted your time and money. The hunting community doesn't buy ammo in quantities that can sustain a cartridge.
I think the 6arc would really be popular if the ammo variety was better and priced reasonable. Some cheap plinking stuff and some varmint rounds would probably help. It’s all expensive now but 223-5.56 is a lot cheaper and it is everywhere. Most people won’t spend 30$ a box for a volume shooting cartridge. IMHO. Hopefully this round gets plenty of support and lots of cheap options even steel cased stuff like 7.62 x39 or some hornady stuff. Anything that is 30$ or above someone will just go with something else. 350 legend started cheap but now is higher than the 30-06 or 308 at my local wal mart. Good luck 👍 I like options and hopefully it goes well.
I had wondered about the functionality of a larger diameter case head and you guys answered my questions for the AR-15 platform. Did I miss you mentioning magazine compatibility or is that already assumed because of the 350 Legend parent case?
A lot of naysayers here aren’t talking about why many new cartridges fail and some become a 270 Winchester. The first necessary condition is a well defined use case/purpose. The second necessary condition is to actually have something “new and improved.” Many recent cartridges are “better” simply because they’re designed for new bullet designs, longer bullets with higher BC, and faster available twist rates. Third is some serious marketing and manufacturing support by significant market players. That means both firearms and ammo production and availability, plus reloading dies, brass and published reloading data. Then there’s old fashioned timing and luck. Often times trends in competitive shooting sports drive that last part, and changes can be unpredictable.
Nice work boys!! I have a 224V and a 6.5G ....been holding off on the 6ARC....glad I have. This may be my next build.
I went with the 6mmAR which necks down the 6.5 Grendel case. No malfunctions in the AR platform, only draw back is it never caught on since it was an exclusive design. More accurate then most of my bolt rifles.
I must agree
224AR here, same thing. Far superior to 6mm arc, 224 valk, etc.
@@jaysmith9496 I’m building a 22 Grendel/ar now
@@jaysmith9496ummm no it isnt
Did that IS the 6mm ARC. With just a few changes
Nice Rifle! Tell me about it? What Can, and Scope? What brand Barrel is that and length?
116 views and only 13 likes. Why don't people punch the like button?
Because we intensely dislike SOLGW.
@@jeffersondaviszombie2734Zero dislikes?
@@vincedee6607 dislikes haven't been visible anymore on TH-cam for over a year.
I've always wondered that myself.
@@andrewstoll4548 they got angry that their political friends were getting downvoted into oblivion. So they disabled displaying the downvote count. F them!
This cartridge is definitively a winner to some capacity, what is important is that we contextualize use case. Irrespective of nswdg having adopted the 6mm arc. Some of you may be wondering what the value proposition of this wildcat cartridge is, what will allow this to take off, and whether or not this wildcat will fizzle out like other wildcat rounds in the past (224 Valkyrie, 6.8 spc). Fundamentally speaking this round has been able to solve the most pertinent problem plaguing both the 6mm ARC and the 6.5 grendel, which is the extractor failures in gas guns. The purpose of this cartridge IS NOT to deliver superior ballistics over 6ARC but rather, it is to deliver nearly identical ballistic performance while having much greater RELIABILITY in the AR platform. 6MM ARC is a great round... in a bolt gun, the same can be said for 6.5 Grendel. However, both of those rounds have noteworthy reliability issues in gas guns, so much so that I would advise against running either of those two rounds in a gas gun. It's also important to note that whenever you are running a 6mm arc in a gas gun that you need to be very careful with the types of loads you are shooting. This new 6mm max however, has finally come to market for those looking to achieve maximum performance in small frame AR's safely and reliably. Is ammo availability going to be an issue for the 6mm max? For the next two to three years yes, but the question remains are you willing to sacrifice ammo availability for superior reliability, standard ar parts compatibility, and functionality. For many of the consumers in this specific market segment; the answer is yes, as anyone interested in pushing a small frame gas gun toward exhibiting performance reminiscent of a .308 more than likely has some experience with reloading, has already squared away a very solid general purpose rifle, and more than likely has 1000 rounds of their preferred general purpose ammo on hand. Does this new 6mm max cartridge make the 6mm arc and 6.5 grendel obsolete? No, not by a long shot it's simply matter of delineating appropriate use case for each of these rounds. I believe if this 6mm max cartridge is marketed properly, the 6mm arc and 6.5 grendel will be more heavily favoured in bolt guns AS THEY SHOULD BE. With the 6.5 grendel being a slightly superior option for hunting due to its' heavier larger projectiles, and the 6mm arc being the superior choice for competition shooting with a flatter trajectory and wider range of available 6mm projectiles for hand-loaders. The 6mm Max presents itself as a much better candidate for tactical applications with that improved reliability and standard ar parts compatibility. I will most definitely be building out an upper in 6mm max upper for my safe. All that being said however, initial adoption will come down to effective marketing, if that is executed properly we have a winner here boys.
Isn't the 6/grendel extractor problem just overgassing guns?
Glad he was honest about the SDs using ball powder. I'm sick of marketing bullcrap. I've never had a large interest in the ARC because of the bolt problem and it's operation envelope so something like this is more appealing to me. I'm also a big supporter of SOLGW However... how is this a significant improvement over the tried-and-abandoned 6x45mm?
New cartridges are always welcome. Please teach us about the difference to the 6x45 (from the 60s) and the 6mm-223 where reloading dies are available since many years. Don't want to diminish the invention of this guy but just try to learn what really about his invention is.
Was thinking the same thing. Seems like the long way to get back to 6x45. The whole point of 6 ARC is the 108's.
those 2 cartridges were both based on 5.56 and simply necking up case. they both held approximately 28 grns of water cap.
the 6mm MAX is based off the .350 legend parent and holds 35 grains water cap and has been shortened to hold up a 103 gr bullet with enough powder to push it and still be mag fed at 2.300 with 6mm MAX mags or .350 legend mags.
hope that helps in a simple comparison. 103ELDX 2750fps
RCBS and Redding dies have 6mmx45 SB dies as a standard item and are sold on MidwayUSA where I bought my RCBS SB 6mmx45 dies
The 350 legend case has slightly higher case capacity over 223 basic (223 basic is a 223 case that's is staght wall and is intended to be neck down).
350 legend has a rebated rim. the case body is large then the rim of the cartridge.
So you could neck 223 up to 6mm (6x45) but it will never have the same capacity as a cartridge based around the 350 legend case.
I don't know . Once you neck the legend down its not going to be anywhere near 35gr of capacity...then if you go over 80-90 gr bullets you further diminish case capacity.
Glad to see SOLGW is in on this one. My buddy and I are huge fans of the 6ARC and our gears are always turning and thinking of new better calibers. We had always wondered if a 6mm bullet could be used in a 5.56 case. Will be putting a new upper together for the 6 max.
6mm MAX uses .350 legend parent case. more powder capacity 29gr vs 35gr. also OAL is 2.300 mag fed
@@BrianCook-vw3fvso will it work with 556 mag?
@@BrianCook-vw3fv Can 6mm Max share barrels with 6mm ARC, or do you need a whole new one?
What magazines were you using (brand and were they standard AR-15 5.56 or 350 legend mags)?
duramag SS .350legend/6mm MAX
They are headed in the right direction. What I am looking for is an AR 15 platform 6mm that can push a 108gr bullet at 3000fps out of a 16" barrel. I know it dose not exist yet but that is what I would like.
I had no idea 350 legend was rebated. Seeing the numbers and this excitement makes more sense to me now. I just compared water capacity on the different cases:
.223 Rem - 28.8
6x45 - 26.9
6mm ARC - 34.0
.350 Legend - 36.5
6mm Max -35.0
I think this is something worth checking out.
Interesting but really skeptical long term
Just what we all need, another 6mm , not
Can you talk about why this new caliber/round why is it better than a 223/556 with a heavy/longer bullet with a faster twist barrel. ?? love to hear your opinion.
I think I can answer this.
The 6x45 is a severe compromise. That 87 grain bullet out of a 6x45, according to my numbers, has a max muzzle velocity of around 2800 FPS.
The 6mm Max pushes an 87 grain projectile to around 3000 FPS.
In my humble opinion, these numbers alone are a good enough reason to give this cartage some attention. It does not have the high BC bullets of the 6mm ARC but it is a much safer cartage.
I hope it takes off.
great question. The 77gr bullet is the end for mag fed 5.56 AR rounds. we pick up there and add 400 fps velocity over the MK262 round with same bullet weight. this is a force multiplier with the same round count and load out as 5.56. this round makes the 5.56 obsolete. we do this without mods to the BCG and retain full integrity of components. this cartridge can replace then GI carry as well as perform a DMR role based on configuration. loads range from 55gr to 103gr, this covers just about any shooting/hunting/mil application.
This is the absolute best answer I have heard yet and of course it comes from the man who invented the cartridge! If you go on any of the forums, everyone has tried their best to duplicate the Mk262 Black Hills load. They have gotten close but the 6mm max far surpasses the capabilities of the MK262 by leaps and bounds. Furthermore, being able to have the same capacity of the magazines and platform makes it a win win for everyone.
I can tell you, it was easier to hit the 1k targets repeatedly with the 6mm Max far better than I have done with the Mk262 round. Congrats Bryan, I really do think this might be a game changer. 👍🏼
@@BrianCook-vw3fv Does 6mm Max feed reliability from standard 5.56 magazines at full capacity? Thanks
6mm MAX requires .350 legend/6mm MAX mag. round OAL is 2.300@@quick475
Curious how this will perform in smaller packages compared to the ARC. ARCS main issue is the market support. Mainly due to it coming out right before the pandemic. Then yes the bolt stuff.
Very neat. Using the 350 legend case is genius. I see this working best with longer dmr rifles "20+ And I think 6mm ARC will still remain popular especially with barrels 18" and shorter.
This case looks too long for 103-108gr in the AR-15 frame. Same problem 6mm Hagar had.
we currently have saami load data published for 55-100gr loads. We are currently shooting the 103gr ELD-X and will release saami load data in the coming weeks. we are a balance between the hagar and the arc and yes we shoot 103 ELDX at 2.300 which is our standard certified mag length for this cartridge. @@LRRPFco52
The only weakness of the 6mm MAX I can think of is that it does not have the ability to use heavy weight, high BC bullets (I think 87gr is the limit. which is around 0.400 BC). In my opinion that is not a bad thing because I think 90 ish grains in an intermediate cartage platform is a good weight for 6mm projectiles.
@@johnsmithfakename8422 it looks like the max is the 100gr Sierra bullets
So what if you realize that this is very similar to 5.8x42 Chinese?
Mike knows what is up- its not enough to to just be a fast bullet, its gotta be reliable as well.
How different is this from a 6mm mongoose? Seems about the same
IMO ammo has to be sold for under $1 a round, otherwise it will be too expensive to shoot (for the general public) in an AR platform.
Look at 8.6 blk - its is an amazing round but nobody wants to pay $3/per round
EDIT: I just heard the prices....not bad.
6x45 has been around from the 70s and is a sized up 223/5.56 to 6mm mad dog weapon systems has 6 mm mongoose same thing sized up brass my 6x45 been a killer rifle for years they just making something that is been around for years
LOL!, So its a 350 legend case, that is basically a open .223 case, necked to a 6mm and calling it a new cartridge? Hmm, seems I’ve heard of that somewhere, Oh yea! The 6x45 or 6mm-223 Rem, or 6mm/223, take your pick.. Been around for years. A .223 necked up to 6mm. Hell, I have one and it shoots awesome! Had Hart spin me a barrel for a AR15 set up. Similar velocities to what is mentioned here. Probably because its the same round…”invented something new”…LOL!!
Glad I skipped the 6mm ARC. Disappointed the issues with the 6mm ARC haven't been made as well known as the .224 Valkyrie issues.
There are not that many that's why. Been shooting 6ARC for years not many problems at all !
I messed up buying an AR Stoner 224 Valkyrie barrel that turn out to be a dud for all the hype!
These 224 cartridges are an unpredictable for a reloader and causes blown cartridges for reasons I have no idea why when I check each powered charger going into the cartridge for loading.
I also learned the 224 can't take any more of a powder charge than a 223 and that isn't what I bought the barrel for.
My 224 barrel is crap for accuracy, and many have learned of the 224
@@andrewslagle1974 I've been sticking with my 6.5 Grendel. I had thought about piecing together an 18" 6mm ARC upper and/or rifle with a rifle length gas tube off of a 20" 6.5 Grendel barrel. Some friends have had issues with Odin Works and Faxon 6 ARC barrels using 6.5 Grendel Type II bolts. It's been a wait and see for me.
Perhaps the reason they haven't been made as well known is because they are largely theoretical. Besides online presumptions and a few anecdotal forum posts, is there any meaningful evidence that suggests that quality 6 ARC/6.5 Grendel bolts (Type 2) are prematurely failing regularly? And what does it mean for a bolt to fail prematurely? For example, and hypothetically speaking, if a 5.56 bolt lasts, on average, 9000 rounds without failure, is it unacceptable if a 6 ARC bolt fails at an average of 8,500 rounds? Is a loss of 500 rounds of life too much for what you gain in performance from the larger calibers? After all, we often give up barrel life in exchange for the benefits of some more aggressive cartridges and no one seems to complain too much. A huge factor in anecdotal accounts is excessively high-pressure reloads (i.e., exceeding 52,000 PSI) vs. standard and factory loads. Still another is how often you shoot. But in the end, there is no one-cartridge-does-it-all-perfectly solution. Advantages always come with disadvantages, and all of these must be weighed before making a commitment. I wouldn't necessarily use a 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel for home defense, but for target shooting and hunting, I have no problem with them.
And a disclaimer: the empirical data I ask about may, in fact, be available, but I haven't seen it. Hornady ("Handbook of Cartridge Reloading," 11th Edition) does caution against high-pressure loads in 6 ARC gas guns because of bolt longevity concerns, so there's that. As an owner of 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel firearms, I'd love to have a look at the real data.
@@blueeyeddevil1 Good points made 👍🏽
What are the odds this round is still being used in 5 years?
Next to none. Just like what Wilson combat rounds
Same as 224 Valkyrie; 0.
Slim to none
@@rockerdude8000 Man i was really hoping for the the 300 hamr to make it more mainstream.
Pretty much 0
What's the difference between this and the 6mm-223? Cartridge specs? Case capacity? 20" 6mm-223 getting 3070fps with 75gr Speer HP using Varget.
Red right hand llc, red right hand llc, red right hand llc.........reece lmg in 6 max with m 89 rail , rrh llc heat mitigation system washers for cooling faster 😂 dude talk about a thumper
Ray makes it look easy. 😂
Wow...right as I start seeing how popular the 6 arc is, we already have another cartridge that's competing with it...the 6 arc would probably be better in a ak.
Sounds like it’s no different than 6 mm ARC. I’ll keep my 6 ARC.
I would like to see a 6mm MAX vs 25x45 Sharps, handloaded using the heavy 25 ELDs, 24" barrels with suitable twists.
When a good round like the 6.8 spc and the 6.5 Grendel they kill it off with mindless stupidity so what's the point 😢
Swapping out the barrels on the existing inventory of M4/16s for 6max make more sense then buying the sig mcx spear and the 6.8x51. I'd take a m16a4 in 6 max over the sig spear and the limited ammo capacity it has.
M-89 mike is right plus 6 max and 20 inch barrel got to put a bayonet lug on it though 😂❤ stabby stabby❤
I just built a 6 ARC gas gun and converted my savage 110 to 6 ARC. I’m gonna plug my ears and yell loudly through this video. ;)
Seems okay! but how does it shoot with a 16" and under barrel? The general consciences in gas guns, is a better cartridges in a shorter package! nobody wants to lug around a 20" AR-15 platform. If you can't get those results in a shorter package then it will go the way of the dinosaur and be extinct before it starts say like the 6.8spc .300Hamr 224Val. and several other magnum cartridge wannabes that will do nothing but be an expensive waist of time
This is what the Military should adopt to replace 5.56. This has literally every advantage over 5.56, and is an even better choice than 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel, when you consider that it uses the same Bolt-Face and BCG, so it only requires a simple barrel swap to work!
So sorry for these guys but this won’t do at all…especially for PRS work. Any 6mm ARC in a gas gun as for over/under gas is bunk…A superlative arms gas block easily solves those issues. 6 ARC bolts are extremely reliable and rairly fail…a solution in search of a problem….
Neck it up to 6.5 and call it 6.5 FAFO. Then neck it up to 300 and call it 300 Smackout.
Don’t see this doing much more than the 6x223. Yeah looks like you can push bullets a little faster but you are still suck with 350 specific magazines it appears. Big pass for me unless it’s reliable In regular magazines.
I'm looking forward to 16" barrels. The magazine options for .350 Legend aren't great per se, but if this kicks off properly, I'm sure 25 or 30 round options will come to market.
Interested in the 350 legend? I've got a retro m16a2 carbine thing I've been working on. Irons, lightweight and looks like an old fixed stock 6520
Great video .Sounds like a great round .I Will have to get a rifle set up so i can do some testing .Thank you for the info !
I'd love to see head- to- head against 25-45 sharps and 6mm mongoose. The extra case capacity of the parent case could allow lower pressure powders or avoid compressed loads. That may give it an edge against the other cartridges. But it's only supposition until it's done.
Pretty amazing, but the appeal to me of 6arc was a shorter barrel and still hitting distance. I wonder if 6max suffers from shorter barrel lengths? Like what is the velocity reduction dropping to half that length?
What’s that rifle barrel length he shooting at a 1,000
24 inch Got it 🧠👌🏾
LOL...seriously, how many "new" cartridges are needed? These might be referred to as wildcats. They come and go all the time.
The 6mm Max was invented by a guy named Rich Sherman a couple years ago. Find a new name. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel also.
How about taking a 450 bushmaster case and necking it down to a 223 or 6mm. Then come back and talk about
So it's basically a 6 X45 (6mm-223) that's been around forever?
6x45 holds 28 grns water cap.
6max holds 35 grns water cap.
We push a 103eldx at 2700fps from 20” barrel with great precision. 6x45 will not shoot a 103/105 gr bullet.
@BrianCook-vw3fv after you neck the 350 legend down it doesn't hold 35gr anymore . Then you stick a 1.26in bullet in there and there is even less usable case volume .
4:50 for those who want to skip to round pictures
Makes You Think...... is this why reloaders cannot get brass, bc the factory brass is going to other ammo makers for their ammo. Such as stated here 350 Legend brass going to these guys to make 6max ammo. so same with other such 308 brass going to ammo makers and brass makers of all the other Niche wild cat rounds!!!
What? Another cartridge….?
Yipee!!! More crap for the gun room…..
Nothing more deadly than a 6mm Remington,
Yep.
Australia
Usually when we hear about a new AR cartridge it turns out to be a hot mess. (I'm lookin at your 22 nosler and 224 Valkyrie) This one seems to have the legs to get it done.
It has the speed we were promised with the 22 nosler. It can launch better BC bullets than the 224 Valkyrie. I just hope this one doesn't fall flat like the other two. I REALLY WANT THIS ONE TO DO VERY WELL!!! I have two receiver sets in my safe waiting for a build worth doing.
The only question is going to be barrel life. Will it have more than a 5000 round life?
Do they plan on running a heavier option 103-110
yes, 103 ELDX
103 eld-x is 1.26in long ...not alot of boiler room left .
This is awsome, literally had this exact idea as soon as I saw some 90gr 350 legend loads, pretty cool
>still quoting velocity in 20 inch AR’s
Don’t care.
Why did it take this long for this cartage to come out? This looks like the ideal AR15 cartage.
This is what I had imagined an ideal 6mm AR15 cartage to be. Only needing a barrel swap to operate and over 1600 ft-lb of energy at the muzzle.
If the performance, and reliability could come out of a polymer case (the reason is weight savings) then I think this will be The perfect AR15 cartage.
1750 ft-lbs
@@BrianCook-vw3fv
My ideal AR15 cartage was a 6mm projectile with at least 1600 ft-lb of muzzle energy (Specifically 87gr @ 2900 FPS). This bested my ideal AR15 cartage by 100 FPS.
So basically they reinvented the 6mm TCU
Interesting.
Can yall do it again and give us a 6.5 max? From 80 to 123 grain.
I'm wondering why they didn't 6mm WSM and call it a day...😂
🤦♂️🤣 I see what I did there...a 243WSM. LOL
Can someone show me where this is available on sons of liberty’s website. I don’t see it anywhere.
So they made a different version of the 6mm TCU. Not impressed.
Sounds like a 6mm TCU. Siloute world has developed most of the modern day cartridges years ago.
6 arc isn't going anywhere.
Just invested in 6 arc, looking forward to 6 max
Unless the ammo is available and reasonably priced this is a waste of time
Very interesting🤔
wonder why they didn't stuff a 108 gr in it and shoot it for the demo?
Why not a 9mm x 45 or a true 7mm x 45, .2756 inch, ?????