I'll go full Acoustic here: 6ARC's problem is the two separate SAAMI pressure specifications - Gas-Gun at 52kpsi, and Bolt-Gun at 62kpsi. Most people don't actually know there's a difference, and that its unsafe to run Bolt-Gun spec ammo in your AR-15. I can load any cartidge to 62kpsi and get screamin' terminal performance at long range, but its not always safe to do so, and it certainly isn't safe in production consumer guns. Apples to apples, barrel length and projectiles being equal, 6MAX in the 90-105gr range has between 1-5% MORE energy on target out to 1k yards and beyond - and it's achieving this at 54kpsi rather than the 62kpsi in the ARC. If you run Gas-Gun spec 6ARC ammo, you'll get seemingly lackluster performance, and scratch your head wondering why. Add to that the enhanced reliability, parts service life, etc and you see why people are jumping on the 6MAX train.
You are spot on, 6mm Max is not a long range cartridge, 6mm Max is 5.56 improved. It is designed to be a better M4/Mk18/Mk12/M27-IAR in hard use, high round count firing schedule scenarios. Longer distances, more energy on target with the same combat loadout. 6mm Max knowingly sacrifices the longer slipperier projectiles that 6mm ARC can use to to trade for a higher magazine capacity and the stronger bolt that can better survive high round count firing schedules. I know that the hunting/varminting crowd spends a lot of cash but I’m not sure you are giving the tactical crowd enough credit for the cash they (we ;-) ) spend. The problem is the tactical crowd wants “street creds” which essentially requires Mil/LE contracts. 6mm ARC got a huge boost in the tactical crowd because of the unnamed DoD group that bought 6mm ARC. I would really like to see 6mm Max succeed because it really is better than 5.56 in almost every way. To be honest the US military probably would be better off going with 6mm Max with an upgraded M4 platform than the .277 Fury and the XM7.
Well said! Couldn’t agree more. Why did we regress to a bigger platform, heavier overall and less ammo per individual? The 6.8SPCII is a good cartridge but the 6ARC is superior for many reasons. The 6MAX would have been better than 5.56 too but the 6ARC checks all the boxes.
@@txpredatorhuntingI actually don’t have one yet because I can’t get the barrel I want yet. I would like a 14.5 pin and weld with a Rearden Plan B or a 16 but not in the stainless steel SPR profile. I would like a more of the SOLGW Combat V2 profile or a Criterion Core profile. Something more suitable for run and gun but that can also reach out.
@@tdc1C4except magazine capacity and a hard use bolt that can withstand a heavy firing schedule including full auto. I think 6mm Max would be a better fit than 6mm ARC for Military use for those reasons. The combat loadout with 6 Max would be the same number for rounds and the same bulk with just a little more weight where 6 ARC would be fewer rounds. Definitely less expensive to implement than .277 Fury and the M7. Only a barrel and magazines for the M4s we that tax payers have already paid for.
Well said. I'll echo everything you said here. The 6mm Max can handle 105 gr BTHPs and the 103 ELD-X without issue, but that's about the limit. And honestly, I'm not sure why you want to run anything longer than that out of a small frame. Especially at the tradeoff of decreased reliability and robustness. There are so many good 6mm bullets out. Not being able to load 108 ELD-Ms is not a deal breaker. I load 77s in 5.56mm all the time and not once have I pitched a fit that I couldn't do 80s. Every case has its operational envelope. I prefer 6 Max's as it is a more suitable AR-15 cartridge.
I ran this for SOLGW and BCPB starting mid-way through last year and still using the max to present time. Worthy stating I ran the ARC exclusively the 2 years prior. My use case is precision gasser comps and I am approaching a similar volume of max as I acquired of arc (actual Ks and not range boy type shootin either) and have a lot of data, rounds, and time down range with the heavier projos. I’ve compared my preferred load to arc 108s more than the average dude would. I’d love to share data with you and will continue to tune in on your journey. On paper, the 103g eldx runs in near perfect parallel elevation and windage data as the 108g out to 1200y. Said in a soft(er) voice
Extremely interested in your real world data if it applies or can apply to and 18” gun. I shoot 6creed, 6 dasher, 6br in PRS so I’m very familiar with everything over 105gr. I’ve been trying to figure out how heavy of a .22 projectile I can puss out of it at an acceptable speed
What sets 6max apart from .22nosler, 6arc, and other "enhanced AR-15" cartridges is that it borrows the Cosine(30) homework which Winchester did when designing the 350 legend. It stacks properly in a magazine with the same external dimensions as standard AR mags. The 20 rounders look like 20 rounders, and stack efficiently like 20 rounders. There were rumblings of special forces examining 6ARC several years ago. I'm willing to bet the inability to get an efficient, dense loadout with 6ARC going through a small-frame AR magwell is why we didn't hear any more about it. Yes it's not as good for long projectiles as 6ARC, but it's not that bad. 75gr is toward the middle of what people are loading, SOLGW likes to load 65/68gr to make the chrono number big in a short barrel at trade shows.
You didn't here more about 6arc in the mil because DEVGRU was the unit that was evaluating it. Geissele ended up winning that contract. Geissele also makes a good reliable 6arc mag albeit disgustingly overpriced. The main issue with 6arc ar15s is the 6.5 grendel bolt and it's inherently weaker design, that's also why KAC decided to not r&d a 6arc rifle.
@@somethinganything4864 The reason I didn't mention the bolt is because Wade covered it in this video. I wasn't claiming 6arc mags are unreliable. The AR-15 magazine well is not wide enough to accommodate the width of magazine you would need for the .441 rim cartridges to stack efficiently. So as a consequence the grendel/arc AR mags have more empty space in them, they're not truly double-stack, more like stagger-stack. Sure they're reliable, but for their capacity they're significantly more bulky. 350L/6max doesn't have the same problem because Winchester in making the 350 calculated how wide you could go before encountering that problem. That was what I meant by Cosine30. D+DCos30=hexagonal stack width.
I spent some time thinking about "What would be my ideal caliber for the AR-15 platform be." I initially settled on a round in 6mm with 1600 ish ft-lb of muzzle kinetic energy (example 87grains @ 2900 FPS), and it does so with only a barrel change. The 6MAX At worst matched my idea, at best exceeded it.
With my 18" 6mm Max, I was able to shoot under 1" groups at 100 yards with two different powders using the 105 gr Barnes Match Burner. Velocity was better than Hornady's gas gun load manuals for 6 ARC using similar charge weights. 2650 fps out of an 18" is pretty great in my opinion, without the weird ARC bolt too. Yes, I own a gun. Yes, I've shot more than 50 rounds.
@@txpredatorhunting I built it using a 416R barrel sold on the BC Precision Ballistics website. I have 100 rounds down the barrel. The only powders I have used so far are Ramshot Tac and AA2520. AA2520 produced some really low SDs but Tac gave me better velocities before hitting pressure. 6 Max seems to like a faster burning powder compared to 6 ARC, which is great because they burn cleaner, more complete, and shorten the recoil impulse. Best SD I've gotten is 3 fps using AA2520. On average they hang around 10 to 12 fps with a ball powder. I load to about 2575 fps to help brass life, but excess of 2600 fps is easily obtainable before flattening primers. In Alabama we get some really humid and warm temperatures, and I haven't noticed any temp stability problems yet during 3 different days of shooting.
I don’t have any experience with 6max but I do with solgw. Let me tell you the customer service and the willingness to answer questions is awesome. I’m a lifetime customer for sure. I do like the 223 bolt face just because I’m lazy and have alot of standard ones 😭 This seems like a good caliber for my area. Southeast wooded. 6 arc daddy never disappoints
@txpredatorhunting BC Precision Ballistics is actually here in Texas. They've been on SOLGW's and Paramount Tactical's podcasts. See if they would do one with you. I think the types of questions you ask would get more insight from BC about their cartridge.
Wade is right. I saw a cutout of 6 max. In the 105 a max and 107 smk, 2/3 of the bullet length is in the case. Might as well name the round “6 iceberg,” because 90% of the bullet you can’t see. 😂
They've been including a qd cup since at least 2016, when I started using them I believe. I agree, it should be the standard. Haven't touched the 6maxx yet but do like the guys over there and have had good experience with their rifles.
I'm highly intrigued by the 6Max people keep wanting to compare it to the 6 Arc To find its viability but what I think they're missing is This has the potential to be the 556 that she told you not to worry about. Imagine being able to throw out 80 grain projectiles out of 12.5 barrel with the same velocities as a 18-in 556 gun running 55's! You get a better BC than 556 you run the same bolt and lower pressures. That's where this thing shines IMO. I'm definitely intrigued my use case would primarily be night time/thermal hunting.. But It intrigues me from a military standpoint that you could get some serious overmatch on a 556 with a little more than a barrel and magazine swap
I went with the 6 ARC. Why? It's SAAMI approved round. I can walk into my local farm and fleet store and find ammo on the shelf. I can buy ammo for the 6 ARC online most everywhere ammo is sold. Several manufactures have barrels and complete uppers or rifles available The 6 MAX is a willdcat with only one source for ammo, from the cartridge designer. Only one source for a barrels, uppers or rifles.
Taken my 6 max ( 18 inch barrel ) to 1030 yards with 105 hornady 105 bthp multiple times. Its not bad, but I think I can improve it more with refined handloads
@@txpredatorhunting Built it myself. Bought the barrel from BC Precision. About 400 rounds fired through it all suppressed with an adjustable gas block. So far it is very similar to my 18 in 6 arc gas gun with a Proof barrel that I also shoot suppressed. Let me know if you want or need any additional info
@@txpredatorhunting I have broke one bolt on my 6 arc. Most likely due to running hot loads through it. I broke a lug off after about 500 rounds through it
I think this should’ve been marketed as a 556 replacement instead of a six arc replacement. They should’ve also had a 10.3 or 10.5 barrel available. Basically marketing the rifle as a modern MK18
Im glad to see new stuff hit the market, but I'll never have a 6max. If I was doing a 6mm small frame, it would be a 6arc because i want the range that it's capable of. The max just doesn't go the distance. Up close and personal with a 70gr bullet, though, it'd be pretty tough medicine.
I would agree that 6mm max and 6mm arc are not in the same category in terms of use case and comparison between the two isn't very feasible. 6mm max ideally should be pushed as the superior alternative to 5.56 as opposed to trying to solve a problem with 6mm arc which is in fact there, but not a big enough deal to warrant introducing a new cartridge in hopes of competing in that small frame gasser DMR category. It is frustrating that 6 arc has two loadings for gas guns and bolt guns respectively, but it is the superior long range cartridge in comparison to the max. I suppose that's the price we'll have to pay as opposed to having to carry around a heavy 308 gasser which is going transonic at around 900 yards... you can't have your cake and eat it. However, the 6 max's lack of extractor problems and magazine compatibility make it a great competitor to 5.56, but at the end of the day unless the DOD and eventually NATO says we want a paradigm shift away for 5.56 ; investing heavily in 6mm max right now would be foolish.
I reached out to bc precision with no response. I emailed both Brian and Mike to see about lead times on black oxide barrel. I also called 3 or 4 times. Mailbox was full. No response. Built a 6 arc instead.
I was one of those guys in the DMs asking for 6 Max review without owning one 😅 I’m just interested in the cartridge overall and thought it would pique Wade’s interest too
I’m going to be giving away a lot of my testing here but if you pair the MAX with 80gr ELD-VTs, and put it head to head against the ARC, I predict that the velocities and trajectories will be about the same, and will match the external ballistics closely to the 108gr class bullets moving slower from the ARC out past 1300 yards. At higher elevation, it’s almost identical to the 108gr with a scotch more wind drift. I also predict that you can load the MAX to higher pressures safely in a gas gun compared to the ARC, yielding potentially a safe 62,000 PSI load like a 5.56 in a gas gun. By going to a LIGHT FOR SHAPE projectile, you enhance your mid range energy and trajectory while still keeping the outer limits of long distance. If the MAX can utilize this, then the ARC doesn’t have as much of an advantage from an external ballistics standpoint.
Wondering if they will do a 6.5 Max. Could maybe give us the higher velocities of the 6.8spc and higher BC of the grendel combined in one. That would be worth adopting if they could achieve it.
It’s quite literally the opposite. It has shown to be the most reliable out of the 224/6mm small framers. Go to a comp and watch the failure rates of 6 arc.
@@dcskating08 i agree. I think they will have trouble succeeding due to not having the support of someone like Hornady but I also think that for the AR platform specifically, it's a better round overall. In a bolt gun, I'd take the ARC. Then again, in a bolt gun you might have more mag room to load long so maybe not. I basically don't shoot factory ammo so that's a non issue to me.
I have a 308 I want to rebarrel. I need to stick with 308 bolt face so was looking at the 6 dasher, BR, BRA, GT. I handload so factory ammo isn’t issue. I think a 12min talk would be great for explaining the differeces 😊
I would love to see a meltdown on a 6arc. Specifically considering the spread and barrel life. Anyone i know running a 6arc, including myself has run waaayyyy past the 2500 they said they're good for, and still holding tight groups.
Something I thought was a little strange im only getting 34 grains of water capacity at the very max... maybe that don't amount to anything... i just keep hearing 35 gr water capacity.. 🤷♂️ 6x6.8spc is king 😂
105 is incredibly efficient in 6 max with the right powder. You can get 1 MOA on an AR, which is accurate enough for the vast majority of applications.
From the video I had watched from x-ring, the extreme spread was around 150, and sd was pretty high too that was a bit meh - and that was with lighter weight projectiles. Think he's shot a few competitions with his. Just feels a bit disingenuous that they show/market "oh look its over 3k fps out of 14.5!" But don't say its a light for caliber bullet, and trying to push it as a.. "work" rifle thats for a more tactical/police/military role.
i sort of see your point about serious predator hunters but how many of those guys are there vs the tactical crowd? It's not even close. And how much ammo do the two groups go through? That said, I agree that this is a somewhat specialty cartridge (as is basically every AR cartridge that isnt the 5.56). The MAX would be a more useful military cartridge than the 5.56 in a small frame AR but since it's not there, ammo is a problem for anything high volume. I picked up probably 100 pieces of discarded once fired lake city 5.56 brass at the range over the weekend and hundreds more in the past month. Makes it hard to want to use anything else.
Literally anything fits that catch all “better than 5.56” 😆 I’d venture to say based on data I have, limited as a whole, but telling for our area. More tactical bois,”people buying ar’s “ than predator hunters. But, the predator hunters shoot way more ammo. Now, keep in mind that’s local data. That said, as I said, the 6 max is clearly better than 6max, but good luck getting that crowd to adopt it. You’d come closer or be more successful getting that predator hunting crowd to adopt it. Or , try to capture both of them.
@@lorenkrug lol I’m just not a fan of ar10 platforms in general . I get what you are saying. If I’m thinking of running at 10 cartridges, I’ll just grab a bolt rig.
6mm max shouldnt even be a discussion. Its boring, does nothing as good as competitive cartridges, uses 350 Leg as a parent case which is too large to neck down on its own, used 350 Leg mags which suck more ass than even early Grendel mags. This cartridge is 100% "me too" trend. It will die with all other things insignificant and futile.
@@txpredatorhunting ARC: Feed angle, dirty (temp sensitive) powder, proper gassing paired + recoil, casing geometry in gassers, weak(er) bolt faces/lugs/weak extractors. My use is competition (all heavier projos chasing high bc). Work with the max guys as an end user and see all of the oehler 89 data up to 107smk. Chosen to run the 103g eldx. Over 8k rounds of arc: I've experienced blown lugs, snapped extractors, short stroking per clogged gas tubes, complete gas tube failure, much more sensitive free recoiling issues. Oh, and mags. All of this begged maintenance that someone who puts rounds down range will think is silly as hell (it is). 1500 rounds of max produced the same carbon build up behind the bolt at 150 rounds of arc. 16" BBLs Hornady 108g @ 2535 (sample size of 2k rounds and ~5 lots) vs 6mmMax 103g ELDX @ 2600. Max beats elevation by .1 mils until 1100y, ARC beats Max by .1 mils windage at 500y and at 900-1200y. Performance negligible to even debate about. Reliability/longevity/maintenance.... all of the reason to look at it seriously. 30rd mags will need to become a thing (and they will be straight-walled).
@@txpredatorhunting From what I can tell, the ballistics are basically the same. And where they do differ, it's so minimal that I don't care. However, I do care about BCG compatibility. If BCGs get tough to come by, I like knowing that I can find a million 556 BCGs pretty easily. Not so with 6ARC. I also like that the gas system doesn't require the process you described done by Geissele... it's the same. If I told you that you could have the same ballastics as 6ARC, but use all the same parts in your AR, except the barrel and mags, what's the benefit of 6ARC? Maybe get Mike Russo and X-ring on the podcast to talk about it. I haven't shot 1000s of round of these as a comparison. But based on the ballistics chart, I don't see the point of 6ARC. It's less reliable, the guns are way more expensive, the gas system is more complicated, there's less inter-changability with existing AR-15s.... The only benefit is that Hornady is making 6ARC. And they'll probably do to 6MAX what they did to 6.8Western. Which means 6ARC will be at every gun store in no time. But if 6MAX can get picked up by a big time company, that benefit will be gone. And if it becomes a dead cartridge? Well, all I have to do is change my barrel back to 556. It's a much more simple solution to upgrading the power of my AR, with less risk, and more upside, for the same ballistics. Unless all these charts are wrong
Any round fitting into an AR15 pattern rifle isn’t long range plain and simple. Can it shoot long range? Sure, on paper and steel no issues, but ethical killing past 400-450m? No. Just go a larger cartridge in AR10 or bigger and take your ego out of it
This isn't really a new idea it's basically a 6-47 or 6-222 mag or a 6x45 or 6 tcu ........ same dead half assed horse that flopped in the 60's-70's-80's and 90's
LOL You litterly know nothing about that rifle sitting in front of you other then what you're seeing right then during this podcaste. Clearly you did not take a few minutes to acquaint or educate yourself with the details of the rifle and cartrage. Go back and try again.
I'll go full Acoustic here:
6ARC's problem is the two separate SAAMI pressure specifications - Gas-Gun at 52kpsi, and Bolt-Gun at 62kpsi. Most people don't actually know there's a difference, and that its unsafe to run Bolt-Gun spec ammo in your AR-15. I can load any cartidge to 62kpsi and get screamin' terminal performance at long range, but its not always safe to do so, and it certainly isn't safe in production consumer guns.
Apples to apples, barrel length and projectiles being equal, 6MAX in the 90-105gr range has between 1-5% MORE energy on target out to 1k yards and beyond - and it's achieving this at 54kpsi rather than the 62kpsi in the ARC.
If you run Gas-Gun spec 6ARC ammo, you'll get seemingly lackluster performance, and scratch your head wondering why.
Add to that the enhanced reliability, parts service life, etc and you see why people are jumping on the 6MAX train.
What all barrel length are you running in the max? Ammo etc. ?
Also , what all 6 arc platforms are you running?
we need a hammer forged bolt for 6arc. that will solve all the issues
@@txpredatorhunting 6arc 26" barrel in ar15
No, you won't. But wishful thinking is good practice.
You are spot on, 6mm Max is not a long range cartridge, 6mm Max is 5.56 improved. It is designed to be a better M4/Mk18/Mk12/M27-IAR in hard use, high round count firing schedule scenarios. Longer distances, more energy on target with the same combat loadout. 6mm Max knowingly sacrifices the longer slipperier projectiles that 6mm ARC can use to to trade for a higher magazine capacity and the stronger bolt that can better survive high round count firing schedules. I know that the hunting/varminting crowd spends a lot of cash but I’m not sure you are giving the tactical crowd enough credit for the cash they (we ;-) ) spend. The problem is the tactical crowd wants “street creds” which essentially requires Mil/LE contracts. 6mm ARC got a huge boost in the tactical crowd because of the unnamed DoD group that bought 6mm ARC. I would really like to see 6mm Max succeed because it really is better than 5.56 in almost every way. To be honest the US military probably would be better off going with 6mm Max with an upgraded M4 platform than the .277 Fury and the XM7.
Assuming you have one , what barrel length you running? Ammo and how are you liking it?
Well said! Couldn’t agree more. Why did we regress to a bigger platform, heavier overall and less ammo per individual? The 6.8SPCII is a good cartridge but the 6ARC is superior for many reasons. The 6MAX would have been better than 5.56 too but the 6ARC checks all the boxes.
@@txpredatorhuntingI actually don’t have one yet because I can’t get the barrel I want yet. I would like a 14.5 pin and weld with a Rearden Plan B or a 16 but not in the stainless steel SPR profile. I would like a more of the SOLGW Combat V2 profile or a Criterion Core profile. Something more suitable for run and gun but that can also reach out.
@@tdc1C4except magazine capacity and a hard use bolt that can withstand a heavy firing schedule including full auto. I think 6mm Max would be a better fit than 6mm ARC for Military use for those reasons. The combat loadout with 6 Max would be the same number for rounds and the same bulk with just a little more weight where 6 ARC would be fewer rounds. Definitely less expensive to implement than .277 Fury and the M7. Only a barrel and magazines for the M4s we that tax payers have already paid for.
Well said. I'll echo everything you said here. The 6mm Max can handle 105 gr BTHPs and the 103 ELD-X without issue, but that's about the limit. And honestly, I'm not sure why you want to run anything longer than that out of a small frame. Especially at the tradeoff of decreased reliability and robustness. There are so many good 6mm bullets out. Not being able to load 108 ELD-Ms is not a deal breaker. I load 77s in 5.56mm all the time and not once have I pitched a fit that I couldn't do 80s. Every case has its operational envelope. I prefer 6 Max's as it is a more suitable AR-15 cartridge.
I came here to be validated in my 6mm ARC builds. You better not disappoint ;)
Same lol
I believe it’s the best jack of all trades AR cartridge.
This 6mm Max/Arc comparison will blow up your channel. Follow through with a series, keep vids under 20min... Looking forward to your growth.
I ran this for SOLGW and BCPB starting mid-way through last year and still using the max to present time. Worthy stating I ran the ARC exclusively the 2 years prior. My use case is precision gasser comps and I am approaching a similar volume of max as I acquired of arc (actual Ks and not range boy type shootin either) and have a lot of data, rounds, and time down range with the heavier projos. I’ve compared my preferred load to arc 108s more than the average dude would. I’d love to share data with you and will continue to tune in on your journey. On paper, the 103g eldx runs in near perfect parallel elevation and windage data as the 108g out to 1200y.
Said in a soft(er) voice
Data Comparison: drive.google.com/drive/folders/17i9afurZyeg8zVDcfsoL6iLpPUJ8gBFJ?usp=drive_link
Data comparison drive.google.com/drive/folders/17i9afurZyeg8zVDcfsoL6iLpPUJ8gBFJ?usp=drive_link
Extremely interested in your real world data if it applies or can apply to and 18” gun. I shoot 6creed, 6 dasher, 6br in PRS so I’m very familiar with everything over 105gr. I’ve been trying to figure out how heavy of a .22 projectile I can puss out of it at an acceptable speed
Not super familiar with either round, is the 103g the Max and the 108 the ARC?
What sets 6max apart from .22nosler, 6arc, and other "enhanced AR-15" cartridges is that it borrows the Cosine(30) homework which Winchester did when designing the 350 legend. It stacks properly in a magazine with the same external dimensions as standard AR mags. The 20 rounders look like 20 rounders, and stack efficiently like 20 rounders.
There were rumblings of special forces examining 6ARC several years ago. I'm willing to bet the inability to get an efficient, dense loadout with 6ARC going through a small-frame AR magwell is why we didn't hear any more about it.
Yes it's not as good for long projectiles as 6ARC, but it's not that bad. 75gr is toward the middle of what people are loading, SOLGW likes to load 65/68gr to make the chrono number big in a short barrel at trade shows.
You didn't here more about 6arc in the mil because DEVGRU was the unit that was evaluating it. Geissele ended up winning that contract. Geissele also makes a good reliable 6arc mag albeit disgustingly overpriced. The main issue with 6arc ar15s is the 6.5 grendel bolt and it's inherently weaker design, that's also why KAC decided to not r&d a 6arc rifle.
@@somethinganything4864 The reason I didn't mention the bolt is because Wade covered it in this video.
I wasn't claiming 6arc mags are unreliable. The AR-15 magazine well is not wide enough to accommodate the width of magazine you would need for the .441 rim cartridges to stack efficiently. So as a consequence the grendel/arc AR mags have more empty space in them, they're not truly double-stack, more like stagger-stack. Sure they're reliable, but for their capacity they're significantly more bulky.
350L/6max doesn't have the same problem because Winchester in making the 350 calculated how wide you could go before encountering that problem. That was what I meant by Cosine30. D+DCos30=hexagonal stack width.
Thanks for affirming my choice of 6 arc for my prs gas gun was the right move.
Hey guys , be sure and subscribe and turn on notifications. One we will continue to troll the comments during the Premier, 2 it helps us allot!
I spent some time thinking about "What would be my ideal caliber for the AR-15 platform be."
I initially settled on a round in 6mm with 1600 ish ft-lb of muzzle kinetic energy (example 87grains @ 2900 FPS), and it does so with only a barrel change.
The 6MAX At worst matched my idea, at best exceeded it.
I'm subscribed, liked that thing, and am commenting. Gotta get y'all's algorithms pumping. Glad y'all are back
💯
6 max + Pro…… holy fuck, that shit made me laugh. Fitzy……. You’re a goddamn genius.
With my 18" 6mm Max, I was able to shoot under 1" groups at 100 yards with two different powders using the 105 gr Barnes Match Burner. Velocity was better than Hornady's gas gun load manuals for 6 ARC using similar charge weights. 2650 fps out of an 18" is pretty great in my opinion, without the weird ARC bolt too. Yes, I own a gun. Yes, I've shot more than 50 rounds.
What platform are you running? Customer build or solgw 18”?
How many rounds down barrel ? Any other notes?
oh pls just stop
@@txpredatorhunting I built it using a 416R barrel sold on the BC Precision Ballistics website. I have 100 rounds down the barrel. The only powders I have used so far are Ramshot Tac and AA2520. AA2520 produced some really low SDs but Tac gave me better velocities before hitting pressure. 6 Max seems to like a faster burning powder compared to 6 ARC, which is great because they burn cleaner, more complete, and shorten the recoil impulse. Best SD I've gotten is 3 fps using AA2520. On average they hang around 10 to 12 fps with a ball powder. I load to about 2575 fps to help brass life, but excess of 2600 fps is easily obtainable before flattening primers. In Alabama we get some really humid and warm temperatures, and I haven't noticed any temp stability problems yet during 3 different days of shooting.
@@baraboo-nb7hv no.
I don’t have any experience with 6max but I do with solgw. Let me tell you the customer service and the willingness to answer questions is awesome. I’m a lifetime customer for sure. I do like the 223 bolt face just because I’m lazy and have alot of standard ones 😭 This seems like a good caliber for my area. Southeast wooded. 6 arc daddy never disappoints
"Berm thumper" I laughed out loud on that one.
@txpredatorhunting BC Precision Ballistics is actually here in Texas. They've been on SOLGW's and Paramount Tactical's podcasts. See if they would do one with you. I think the types of questions you ask would get more insight from BC about their cartridge.
Wade is right. I saw a cutout of 6 max. In the 105 a max and 107 smk, 2/3 of the bullet length is in the case. Might as well name the round “6 iceberg,” because 90% of the bullet you can’t see. 😂
Legs forward crew ✌️
They've been including a qd cup since at least 2016, when I started using them I believe. I agree, it should be the standard. Haven't touched the 6maxx yet but do like the guys over there and have had good experience with their rifles.
This podcast was shorter than most 12 minute talks. It was right in the sweet spot
Preditor hunting has dam near bankrupt me. A crack addiction would probably be cheaper.
I'm highly intrigued by the 6Max people keep wanting to compare it to the 6 Arc To find its viability but what I think they're missing is This has the potential to be the 556 that she told you not to worry about. Imagine being able to throw out 80 grain projectiles out of 12.5 barrel with the same velocities as a 18-in 556 gun running 55's!
You get a better BC than 556 you run the same bolt and lower pressures. That's where this thing shines IMO. I'm definitely intrigued my use case would primarily be night time/thermal hunting.. But It intrigues me from a military standpoint that you could get some serious overmatch on a 556 with a little more than a barrel and magazine swap
BCPB and Xring are proud of the 90gr 6max. I got their 16"barrrl and 250 rnds of 90gr to try out.
Keep us posted what you think.
The 6x45, brass is cheap, it's a 1 step sizing. Shoot 55gr to 85gr. It's an accurate round with good barrel life
I went with the 6 ARC. Why? It's SAAMI approved round. I can walk into my local farm and fleet store and find ammo on the shelf. I can buy ammo for the 6 ARC online most everywhere ammo is sold. Several manufactures have barrels and complete uppers or rifles available The 6 MAX is a willdcat with only one source for ammo, from the cartridge designer. Only one source for a barrels, uppers or rifles.
Taken my 6 max ( 18 inch barrel ) to 1030 yards with 105 hornady 105 bthp multiple times. Its not bad, but I think I can improve it more with refined handloads
Build it yourself or buy a son’s rifle. About how many rounds down tube, and any other notes you’d add?
@@txpredatorhunting Built it myself. Bought the barrel from BC Precision. About 400 rounds fired through it all suppressed with an adjustable gas block. So far it is very similar to my 18 in 6 arc gas gun with a Proof barrel that I also shoot suppressed. Let me know if you want or need any additional info
@@txpredatorhunting I have broke one bolt on my 6 arc. Most likely due to running hot loads through it. I broke a lug off after about 500 rounds through it
I think this should’ve been marketed as a 556 replacement instead of a six arc replacement. They should’ve also had a 10.3 or 10.5 barrel available. Basically marketing the rifle as a modern MK18
They need to get some reamers out there!!! I need a 12.5" for my AR and a 16 for my howa mini! I got brass dies an 55 gr varmageddons 🎉🎉🎉
Im glad to see new stuff hit the market, but I'll never have a 6max. If I was doing a 6mm small frame, it would be a 6arc because i want the range that it's capable of. The max just doesn't go the distance.
Up close and personal with a 70gr bullet, though, it'd be pretty tough medicine.
I would agree that 6mm max and 6mm arc are not in the same category in terms of use case and comparison between the two isn't very feasible. 6mm max ideally should be pushed as the superior alternative to 5.56 as opposed to trying to solve a problem with 6mm arc which is in fact there, but not a big enough deal to warrant introducing a new cartridge in hopes of competing in that small frame gasser DMR category. It is frustrating that 6 arc has two loadings for gas guns and bolt guns respectively, but it is the superior long range cartridge in comparison to the max. I suppose that's the price we'll have to pay as opposed to having to carry around a heavy 308 gasser which is going transonic at around 900 yards... you can't have your cake and eat it. However, the 6 max's lack of extractor problems and magazine compatibility make it a great competitor to 5.56, but at the end of the day unless the DOD and eventually NATO says we want a paradigm shift away for 5.56 ; investing heavily in 6mm max right now would be foolish.
I reached out to bc precision with no response. I emailed both Brian and Mike to see about lead times on black oxide barrel. I also called 3 or 4 times. Mailbox was full. No response. Built a 6 arc instead.
proper choice
I was one of those guys in the DMs asking for 6 Max review without owning one 😅 I’m just interested in the cartridge overall and thought it would pique Wade’s interest too
Everything that goes bang does that! 😆
Ally have any more on the shelf?
I’m going to be giving away a lot of my testing here but if you pair the MAX with 80gr ELD-VTs, and put it head to head against the ARC, I predict that the velocities and trajectories will be about the same, and will match the external ballistics closely to the 108gr class bullets moving slower from the ARC out past 1300 yards. At higher elevation, it’s almost identical to the 108gr with a scotch more wind drift. I also predict that you can load the MAX to higher pressures safely in a gas gun compared to the ARC, yielding potentially a safe 62,000 PSI load like a 5.56 in a gas gun. By going to a LIGHT FOR SHAPE projectile, you enhance your mid range energy and trajectory while still keeping the outer limits of long distance. If the MAX can utilize this, then the ARC doesn’t have as much of an advantage from an external ballistics standpoint.
Wondering if they will do a 6.5 Max. Could maybe give us the higher velocities of the 6.8spc and higher BC of the grendel combined in one. That would be worth adopting if they could achieve it.
6 max is another 224 Valk. Great idea, but not enough research into it.
It’s quite literally the opposite. It has shown to be the most reliable out of the 224/6mm small framers. Go to a comp and watch the failure rates of 6 arc.
@@dcskating08 I've never had any failures with my 6arc, in comp or in the field, hunting.
@@dcskating08 i agree. I think they will have trouble succeeding due to not having the support of someone like Hornady but I also think that for the AR platform specifically, it's a better round overall. In a bolt gun, I'd take the ARC. Then again, in a bolt gun you might have more mag room to load long so maybe not. I basically don't shoot factory ammo so that's a non issue to me.
Is he saying AL Outdoors? What retailer did he purchase this from?
Ally , sorry I’m country .
I have a 308 I want to rebarrel. I need to stick with 308 bolt face so was looking at the 6 dasher, BR, BRA, GT. I handload so factory ammo isn’t issue. I think a 12min talk would be great for explaining the differeces 😊
Also I don’t need the speeds of the 6creed and want to use varget speed powders
$75 per lb 4350 . Faster powder smaller case is looking better with FJB idenomics.
This guy is completely correct.
I would love to see a meltdown on a 6arc. Specifically considering the spread and barrel life. Anyone i know running a 6arc, including myself has run waaayyyy past the 2500 they said they're good for, and still holding tight groups.
Planning on a couple vids tackling that subject , with others.
Trusted individuals I’m getting reports of over 3500.
Dale yeah brotha!
Dude you guys wanna talk about the new KAC iLencer?
What’s the velocity of the 58’s?
It’s listed on website, true data for me, tbd.
Something I thought was a little strange im only getting 34 grains of water capacity at the very max... maybe that don't amount to anything... i just keep hearing 35 gr water capacity.. 🤷♂️ 6x6.8spc is king 😂
6 max is a great chambering for anything under 100 grains, and is probably at home with 87 grain bullets.
Why 87’s?
105 is incredibly efficient in 6 max with the right powder. You can get 1 MOA on an AR, which is accurate enough for the vast majority of applications.
Will backfire have a review?
🤷
@@txpredatorhunting no, just a pop can challenge
What the hellza happened. Frozen video 😱😱
Think ill just get both a max and a Arc
What is that bipod?
Looks like the warne skyline lite
@@maker_greg sure does thanks!
From the video I had watched from x-ring, the extreme spread was around 150, and sd was pretty high too that was a bit meh - and that was with lighter weight projectiles. Think he's shot a few competitions with his. Just feels a bit disingenuous that they show/market "oh look its over 3k fps out of 14.5!" But don't say its a light for caliber bullet, and trying to push it as a.. "work" rifle thats for a more tactical/police/military role.
On average I'm getting 2600 fps from a 105 gr. ES is 25 fps, SD is 10 fps. Ball powder.
i sort of see your point about serious predator hunters but how many of those guys are there vs the tactical crowd? It's not even close. And how much ammo do the two groups go through? That said, I agree that this is a somewhat specialty cartridge (as is basically every AR cartridge that isnt the 5.56). The MAX would be a more useful military cartridge than the 5.56 in a small frame AR but since it's not there, ammo is a problem for anything high volume. I picked up probably 100 pieces of discarded once fired lake city 5.56 brass at the range over the weekend and hundreds more in the past month. Makes it hard to want to use anything else.
Literally anything fits that catch all “better than 5.56” 😆
I’d venture to say based on data I have, limited as a whole, but telling for our area. More tactical bois,”people buying ar’s “ than predator hunters. But, the predator hunters shoot way more ammo. Now, keep in mind that’s local data.
That said, as I said, the 6 max is clearly better than 6max, but good luck getting that crowd to adopt it. You’d come closer or be more successful getting that predator hunting crowd to adopt it.
Or , try to capture both of them.
6max is clearly better than 5.56
Gen X here, I know, I know, I am old and have never heard of it.
Dude what are you saying? Througoutahatah Outdoors.
Ally, I’m country as hell I know.
For the speed build a light weight carbon barrel AR10 6mm creed for light bullets and varmint hunting
No
Understand
@@lorenkrug lol I’m just not a fan of ar10 platforms in general . I get what you are saying. If I’m thinking of running at 10 cartridges, I’ll just grab a bolt rig.
I'm still waiting on my floatie to get released from timeout...
That gun needs to be tanodized and switched to a 6arc upper😂😂😂
💯
6mm max shouldnt even be a discussion. Its boring, does nothing as good as competitive cartridges, uses 350 Leg as a parent case which is too large to neck down on its own, used 350 Leg mags which suck more ass than even early Grendel mags.
This cartridge is 100% "me too" trend.
It will die with all other things insignificant and futile.
😂
6MAX > 6ARC... the math don't lie
Why?
@@txpredatorhunting ARC: Feed angle, dirty (temp sensitive) powder, proper gassing paired + recoil, casing geometry in gassers, weak(er) bolt faces/lugs/weak extractors. My use is competition (all heavier projos chasing high bc). Work with the max guys as an end user and see all of the oehler 89 data up to 107smk. Chosen to run the 103g eldx.
Over 8k rounds of arc: I've experienced blown lugs, snapped extractors, short stroking per clogged gas tubes, complete gas tube failure, much more sensitive free recoiling issues. Oh, and mags. All of this begged maintenance that someone who puts rounds down range will think is silly as hell (it is). 1500 rounds of max produced the same carbon build up behind the bolt at 150 rounds of arc.
16" BBLs
Hornady 108g @ 2535 (sample size of 2k rounds and ~5 lots) vs 6mmMax 103g ELDX @ 2600.
Max beats elevation by .1 mils until 1100y, ARC beats Max by .1 mils windage at 500y and at 900-1200y.
Performance negligible to even debate about.
Reliability/longevity/maintenance.... all of the reason to look at it seriously. 30rd mags will need to become a thing (and they will be straight-walled).
@@txpredatorhunting Why do my comments get deleted?
@@txpredatorhunting th-cam.com/video/4O9WR73BPYc/w-d-xo.html
@@txpredatorhunting From what I can tell, the ballistics are basically the same. And where they do differ, it's so minimal that I don't care. However, I do care about BCG compatibility. If BCGs get tough to come by, I like knowing that I can find a million 556 BCGs pretty easily. Not so with 6ARC. I also like that the gas system doesn't require the process you described done by Geissele... it's the same. If I told you that you could have the same ballastics as 6ARC, but use all the same parts in your AR, except the barrel and mags, what's the benefit of 6ARC? Maybe get Mike Russo and X-ring on the podcast to talk about it. I haven't shot 1000s of round of these as a comparison. But based on the ballistics chart, I don't see the point of 6ARC. It's less reliable, the guns are way more expensive, the gas system is more complicated, there's less inter-changability with existing AR-15s.... The only benefit is that Hornady is making 6ARC. And they'll probably do to 6MAX what they did to 6.8Western. Which means 6ARC will be at every gun store in no time. But if 6MAX can get picked up by a big time company, that benefit will be gone. And if it becomes a dead cartridge? Well, all I have to do is change my barrel back to 556. It's a much more simple solution to upgrading the power of my AR, with less risk, and more upside, for the same ballistics. Unless all these charts are wrong
He has 50 rounds in it and trying say the lighter grain weights r the best lmao. Maybe do some testing first?
Any round fitting into an AR15 pattern rifle isn’t long range plain and simple. Can it shoot long range? Sure, on paper and steel no issues, but ethical killing past 400-450m? No. Just go a larger cartridge in AR10 or bigger and take your ego out of it
Had to dislike this video as there is no magpul bipod.
😂 my bad
This isn't really a new idea it's basically a 6-47 or 6-222 mag or a 6x45 or 6 tcu ........ same dead half assed horse that flopped in the 60's-70's-80's and 90's
😂
LOL You litterly know nothing about that rifle sitting in front of you other then what you're seeing right then during this podcaste. Clearly you did not take a few minutes to acquaint or educate yourself with the details of the rifle and cartrage. Go back and try again.
Wow.
I think you missed the point. Thats ok though.
Please fill me in on what you think I should know.
@@txpredatorhunting I guess you were right about the fanboys.
@@bradbeam7254 sure seems that way
Weak analysis and video overall.
Why?
6 arc sucks in ar platform